Hope for Dark Days | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. Hello, my

name is Bill. My name is Naraya. My name is Britton.

And we're here to talk about Advent, which is

this Christian season that prepares us to celebrate

Christ's birth. And on the first Sunday of Advent,

we light one candle and we call it the Candle

of Hope. So we're going to chat a little bit

about what... hope means what that looks like

how it is i think much needed in our world today

no stuff um yeah but so first as we just think

about what this is like when you hear the word

hope what comes to mind for you something positive

okay that's good yes kind of like there's a goal

that i'm waiting to achieve okay yes yeah yeah

i would like lean like both of those combined

like It's positive. It's like a future projection

that I anticipate. And I anticipate it because

I believe that it could be. Like, I don't know

if it's going to happen yet. It's almost like

faith, but we won't go there. Sure, yeah. Yeah,

no, it's definitely future -oriented, for sure.

Yeah, like Advent, it's the coming of something.

Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, for sure. And I think sometimes

it's... ground your hope is grounded in the thing

and sometimes it's just oh i'm gonna hold on

and hope yeah um yeah so then when we think about

hope like in a faith -based context or in a christian

context is that different than when we think

about hope in a broad sense or is it the same

yeah i would think so because like hope in a

general sense kind of feels like wishful thinking,

right? Like, oh, like, I hope that this will

happen. Maybe it might not. Sure. But in... The

Christian sense in a biblical sense, the hope

that we kind of have is like, it's annoying.

Like it's going to happen. Yeah. Or like even

if, but it's like annoying still. Sure. Yeah.

There's a, there's a casual hope that we use

just in every day. Like I hope she is doing well

or, you know, I hope you have a good day. Right.

I mean, it's a general. well -wishing for a person.

I think there's also a hope that is much more...

I don't know, human or maybe more material in,

in, in sense where, you know, when you're, you're

hoping for something, you're hoping for, uh,

you know, a better job or hoping for more money

or hoping for, so there's, there's like, um,

there's, uh, a more immediate, uh, and a more,

uh, material, uh, sense to that or definition

to that kind of hope. More human. Yeah. Yeah.

I would say like, uh, The biblical sense of hope,

it's like it's rooted, it's rooted in Christ.

And I would say for the Christian, it's rooted

in Christ and knowing that there is nowhere else

we could put our faith or optimism or our future

in. So, yeah, like there's in this when we come

to Christ, we like it's like us finally realizing

that there is no other hope. outside of of christ

yeah like all of the other hopes are like shallow

in some sense and sometimes based in like some

material grounding but like not based in like

an ultimate thing yeah yeah right a christian

sense of hope is also um tends to be more eternal

You know, sort of a divine hope is a faithful

expectation for things to come. And, you know,

whereas as I was saying, kind of like a more

human grounded sense of hope is more immediate

for something now. I think a Christian sense

of hope is we're looking to the future. We're

looking to, you know, the hope of Christ, the

hope of heaven. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like

when I think about a Christian sense of hope

and like what it means for me to like hope in

Christ, it's like this deeply sustaining thing,

I think. Right. Like it's it's this sense that

like it's very future oriented and they're like,

I don't get it right now. But it is this thing

that keeps me. looking to the future, I guess.

Right. Like it, and it, it nourishes me somehow

in this moment to know that like all of the things

swirling about me are not ultimate things. I

guess. Yeah. I don't know. That actually reminds

me of like the verse I was trying to tell you

earlier as well, which is Jeremiah 29, 11, where

at the end he's like, yeah, it's not to like,

you know, harm you, but I'm trying to give you

a future and a hope. So it's a lot more deeper

when we think of it as like, oh, yeah, it's not

just, oh, everyday hope, like how you mentioned

earlier. But we're looking forward to something

that is so much more bigger than what we see.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's why Christianity

is attractive for all people, but particularly

kind of in my experience and working with a lot

of underprivileged families through the years.

and in traveling to different countries and seeing,

you know, some really kind of deep poverty, is

that, you know, the hope that we find in Christ

in our faith is very appealing. Because when

you're in a situation where you have no hope,

right, and you're not likely... you know, to

move much beyond that in this life, to have a

sense of hope in the next life that, you know,

that things will be made right, you know, and

there'll be a place for me, you know, in heaven.

And that is so, you know, even beyond our current

situation, you know, in faith, we can have hope

in something better. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it reminds me. So there's this section

in Romans chapter eight where Paul says, we know

that the whole creation has been groaning as

in the pains of childbirth right up until the

present time. Not only so, but we ourselves groan

inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption

to sonship, the redemption of our bodies for

in this hope. you were saved. Um, but hope that

is seen is no hope at all. Um, for who hopes

for the things that they already have. Right.

Um, yeah. So it's, it is this thing that we're

like, okay, this is, this is the hope that we

were saved for knowing that redemption is coming,

knowing that evil doesn't win in the end, but

it's a hope. It's not a present reality. Yeah.

Yeah. It's not in this time, but it will be.

And then it fuels you. It's a very interesting

thing, the way that God sustains us because it's,

yes, it's for what is to come, but it's like

past, present, and future all at the same time.

God is working and moving and keeping us. So

like that hope is its future, but it still has

that. that um ability to to fuel us for today

which I don't I haven't come across any other

um like hopeful thinking that that does that

like usually people are anxiously hoping which

Paul kind of makes it sound like that but it's

like it's not a negative um undertone that he's

trying to produce he's like he's he's speaking

about something that is like I would want to

groan for that Sure. Because I desire it so much.

And there's nothing else that can that can I

could I could be hopeful for other than this.

Right. Yeah. That's an interesting one. And I

think like as you were talking there, what sort

of came to mind for me was like that this is

a hope that like we can't bring about by ourselves.

Like sometimes when we're hoping for things,

it's like, I hope I get that job. And it's like,

OK, so do some work to make sure that you can.

be set up to get that job. But when we're hoping

for redemption and new creation, I, I don't have

to do anything to make that come. Yeah. Right.

And so it is, it's, it's then like less of an

anxious. Yeah. Because I can't make it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Not in ourselves, not through ourselves,

but fully through Christ and in Christ. That's

why we're able to have that opportunity to even

be hopeful. There's a verse as well in Romans.

I can't recollect the first part of it, but it

says the hope is actually powered by the Holy

Spirit. And so when I first thought of it, I

was like, oh yeah, because we as humans, when

we're going through everything, through all this

suffering and whatever else we have to endure,

then we can't really produce that hope. We can't

really figure out how to hope, right? And then

as we pray about it, as we lean more in Christ,

the more we not really have to understand why

this is happening, but know that he's got it

all in control. That's when we're like a lot

more hopeful. Yeah, for sure. I'm glad you brought

up the Romans 8 passage because I was reading

that. earlier and and the the exact thing about

you know hope is for things unseen yeah or yet

unseen and and you know people don't hope for

what they already have and and it just made me

think that yeah there's different there's different

levels or different different kinds of hope in

different people. I mean, there's people, you

know, unfortunately, there's people that are

hopeless, right? And I think that's the most.

Uh, you know, for me, I think that's the most

sad is when people, uh, individually have lost

hope, uh, in themselves and in their faith and

in Christ and, um, and are just, um, uh, are

just kind of ungrounded and they, like they,

they just, they have nothing left to hope for

that's been drained out of them, beaten out of

them, you know, whatever. I think that's, uh,

that, that is a super sad. And then there's a

group of people that, uh, like Paul is talking

about in Romans that are, that aren't hoping

because they've, they have, they, they can see,

you know, what, so much of what people hope for

is a reality in their life. And so they don't

have a high level of hope. They don't need to

because so much of it has been realized in their

own life here and now. And then there's, and

then there are those that, that do have the kind

of hope that we're, we're talking about. That's

a, a, a, a faithful, expectation of what's to

come that Paul talks about in Romans and other

places in the Bible where we're looking forward

to something restorative, something better, something

greater, a place that has been prepared for us.

And I just think if so many of us, especially

in our culture, you know, have so much of what

we, what we want, what we need, maybe not, maybe

not what we want, but that there, and so there

isn't as much opportunity for hope. You know,

there isn't that sense or yearning for hope because

so much of this stuff is provided for us or that

we, you know, and I think we lose some of that

sense of hopeful expectation that again, that

again leads to a more faithful or more eternal

sense of hope. Yeah. It's like a muscle that

we don't always have to practice. Yeah. Yeah.

But it also reminds me of like this other verse

that is also in Romans, which is like with all

the suffering that we go through, right? So suffering

produces endurance, endurance produces character,

and then character produces hope. I think that's

actually a Star Wars quote. Maybe it's in the

Bible. It is. I think Giotto said it. Very wise

words. Yes. But, yeah. And so, like, how we were

just discussing, like, okay, there's, like, obviously

so much of suffering and everything, and then

it's hard to, like, hope for things. But at the

end of it, like, it's our faith. in Christ that

is like pulling us into that hope. And you mentioned

this, you were like, oh, I don't want to touch

on faith, but I feel like there's so much. Yeah,

because like faith itself when it's defined is,

hey, it's a substance of hope, the evidence of

unseen. Well, a number of times in Romans, it's

all together, right? Where Paul describes hope

as a faithful expectation. Right. So, I mean,

faith is entwined in our sense of hope. But can

I just like come back to what you were saying

about like these types of people and these people

who are like they they have no hope. They're

hopeless because they just life is just rough.

And there's folks that like they don't really

want to hope or they don't hope because they

have everything. They don't need to hope. Yeah,

they don't need to hope. And there's the group

that Paul's talking about. Um, and it just, it's

reminding me of the sermon series. Um, and in

thinking of those, like, it felt like those groups,

like Matthew was a part of this group that was

told that, you know, like, there's nothing for

you. Like, you're just the scum. Um, and then

the sinners and then there's the Pharisees and

Sadducees and they were like, you know, the,

they probably didn't, maybe they didn't hope,

maybe they didn't have anything to hope for.

Cause like they have everything, they have power,

heaven on earth. They already got it. But I,

I feel like there is even within our, our Christian

community, um, especially with like within our

culture, like there's this, I don't think we

hope, I don't think we hope very much. Um, I

think we read our Bibles. I think we come to

church and do like the things that we need to

do, but I don't think we necessarily feel that,

that groaning, um, that desire because everything

is like, it's content. It's good. It's fine.

That longing is just like you, when you realize

that you can have everything you need and want,

but still there's just this. There's this emptiness

that only, only Christ can fill. I think the,

so how I'm getting back to the sermon series

is that Rob talked about how Matthew wasn't so

offended when Jesus said, like, I came for sinners.

Right. And if we know who we are, first, knowing

that we're children of God. And so we are part

of that inheritance, but also in knowing in our

position that we could never attain any of this.

Right. Except being part of that lineage, being

a part of Christ's family like that. I think

it positions us to have that type of hope where

like it doesn't matter what it is or what we

have or what we lose. Like Christ is enough.

And I'm going to hope in that. Yeah, I just I.

I wrestle with it. Like, do we actually hope?

And I think like when I think about the moments

in my life where like I have felt like a deeply

nourishing hope, it's like when life sucks. Right.

Like when things are not going well, when I either

in my own life or when I look at the world around

me and I'm like, wow, this is a mess. Yeah. Right.

That's when I'm like, I need hope right now.

But when life is just sort of meh, like coasting

along, then like. Yeah, you're right. We don't

exercise that muscle. Yeah. Yeah. I think hope

is underrated in a large part. I don't know if

that's specifically in our culture or whatever,

but I just don't think it's given its due in

terms of how it affects each of us individually,

how it affects us as a group, as a culture. I

think of it as a bit like... I think there's

a lot of difference in a person or a family that

are going through some of the same situations,

similar situations. If they individually or as

a family have hope, they respond to it, they

deal with it, they cope with it in a much different

way than a family that has less hope or no hope.

Sure. I think of it like computer games or video

games. with a health bar or a mana bar, right?

I mean, it would be so much easier in life if

we just, underneath us, we had a hope meter.

And we could, you know, and so we could see,

you know, how much hope we have in our life right

now. And if we need to kind of recharge our sense

of hope, because I do believe that those of us

who have a hope in things greater than themselves,

a hope in Christ, And again, the difference between

human hope and divine hope is human hope is grounded

so much in our material needs, like I was saying

before. It's hard to see beyond that. And when

we have that sense of divine hope, we're not

even necessarily thinking that that hope is going

to result in a better situation for my life or

for my family's life. But it's a hope that...

ultimately everything is going to be okay. Right.

That God has a plan for us and, and that, you

know, it, it might not, it might not mean that,

you know, I'm going to get out of a negative

situation, but it means that ultimately we will

persevere and we will, and we will end up in

a, in a better place in a better way. Yeah. So

when I think about hope, I sort of think of it

in this, like, two at least two faceted ways

but one is that like hope is a gift given to

us by god that like as we were saying before

we don't need to like earn that we don't need

to work towards it and i think of hope as a calling

in the sense of like god gives us a gift and

now we need to decide what we're going to do

with it right um yeah so like when you when you

think about that does that resonate? And like,

in what ways do you sort of think about hope

as gift and as calling? Well, it brings me back

to, um, the passage that you mentioned, uh, Jeremiah

and that, that promise to give you hope and a

future, like that's a collective, uh, promise

that, that God made. Um, and so it's not just

like this individual thing. So hope is not just

for me. Just like our Christian faith is not

just for an individual. It's a collective, communal

movement and gift. So we share that together.

And I think when we are hopeful, when we're given

that gift, it's our opportunity to also share

that around. So when I interact with people who

are hopeless, even just... I pray. My essence,

my being, the way that I move in the world gives

people that touch of hope. There is something.

There's something greater. There's something

to long for. It reactivates that sense. I think

that all humans are really, we desire. We desire

to see something greater, especially in the times

that we live in. So, yeah, I think it's not just

for me. It's not if I'm holding it to myself,

then maybe I don't fully understand what the

gift is. Maybe there's some work I need to do

there to to fully understand what God is calling

me into. But I think hope is something that is

the gift that God gives to an individual, but

it's shared communally. Yeah, I agree with that,

because like on an individual. like standard,

I wrestle with it as well. Like I'm, I cannot

fully understand hope, but if I were to like

go back into my Bible and be like, okay, the

one thing that the old Testament people, they

could hope for the Messiah is coming. And then

now in the new Testament, we as new Testament

people, we were looking forward to his return.

Right. So that's the kind of hope I can acknowledge

and be like, okay, I understand this and that

we're all doing it together. Right. But on an

individual, I'm like, I don't know how to hope.

I don't know what this is. Interesting, yeah.

I think there's, in terms of hope, there's a

short term and a long term. I think there is

a gift of hope that you can receive. You know,

from others, from reading the Bible, from praying.

And that is, you know, that's a feeling that's

temporary. It might get you through a difficult

time. But I think there's also more of an attitude

of hope that maybe is more of a discipline that

you... that you learn to grow and develop within

yourself as part of your overall journey of faith

development and discipleship. Hope is a part

of that, and it's less fleeting than the gift

or the feeling of hope. And again, it goes less

from the material, more to the eternal, where

you have an attitude of hope that's part of your

growth. growing discipleship and learning in

your faith, then it becomes, you know, part of

who you are. It becomes a structure of who you

are as opposed to something that just comes and

goes based on how you feel. Yeah, like hope is

like a posture that we can take in some sense,

right? It's, yeah. Because it's not based on

circumstance. Right. It's not based on what I

can see right now, because if it was only based

on what I can see right now, then, of course,

hope is a fleeting thing. Right. Because there's

going to be moments where it looks hopeless.

But if hope is a posture that I can take that

says, despite what's in front of me, I trust

that God will be faithful. I trust that. jesus

is coming back that redemption is coming right

then it yeah i think that changes things yeah

yeah um and i think the other thing that i sometimes

think about in terms of hope is hope is like

a waiting but like an active waiting um that

it's it's the thing the future oriented thing

but like i'm not just sitting back waiting for

god to do a thing in the future that i don't

know when that's coming right but god says okay

no there's work for you to do here and now to

give hope to hopeless people as you were sort

of saying that it's not an individual gift it's

a it's a collective thing so hope as an action

yeah hope is an action Yeah. We're like, if we're

looking on the groaning part, it makes me think

when I think of like the word groaning, I think

of like someone's sick. So like a hope is infectious.

Okay. Not COVID, but hope is infectious. Okay.

Say more about that. Like it, it impacts people.

Like there's something like the people that I've

met who are truly hope filled are. it radiates

off of them not to say that they're like overly

optimistic or like they paint everything in like

this positive brush but it's there's even if

there's a disappointment or a setback now it's

in the knowing that like god god is already taking

care of my future um And that doesn't mean that

we don't do anything in this present moment.

I think hope is also a response in knowing that

God is going to make things right. And God promises

to do that. I also, as a collective sense, I

also take up that responsibility in myself too.

And I participate in what is to come in that

ushering into the kingdom. So I think it's in

that way, it's active and it's present. Um, but

it does something, uh, to us and it should be

infectious that, so that if I am operating in

that, like in that spirit, then it'll cause you

to feel, Hmm. Okay. There's something, something

different here. I want it. And you go looking

for it and you find it in Christ. And then you

start carrying that on and the other person,

the other person, the other person. I think that's

what creates the opportunity for us to have like

genuine, um, like collective, um, like spiritual

community because we're all like, it's like iron,

iron sharpens iron kind of thing. Like that,

I think that's what creates that genuine thing.

So that's why we have to have small groups and

we, we connect with people and we pray together

and we, cause all those things, I think it's

like the activation of, and the continuation

of our hope. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

I, I, uh, I agree to like how, um, hope can kind

of be like infectious right like it can impact

like a butterfly effect or maybe even a domino

effect depending on how much so um but when i

remember like every time i've come across like

reading the book of philippians it's like it's

known as the happiest book in the bible right

and every time i've read it i'm like i am a little

more hopeful i am a little more happier because

of how despite his circumstances he was in jail

while he wrote this and he's like oh yeah I'm

chilling. I'm looking forward to when I get out

eventually. Right. Even though if at the end

of it, I'm going to be martyred. Right. Right.

Yeah. But it's like, that's a lot of hope. Hope

for things beyond yourself. Right. That's exactly

it. There could be bad things happening in your

future, but you can still be hopeful and not

just for yourself, but for your people and for

the world and for the future. Yeah. And he was

like looking forward to everybody reaching that,

optimal piece of being like, yeah, we've got

this. Right. Because Jesus got us. Yeah. So,

yeah. For sure. I like the, I like the hope in

action piece because I think that it gives us

something to do. That it's not just something

that kind of happens to us or, but it's, we can

work towards it. And I just think the more that

we are involved in, in, kind of growing our own

hope, which is infectious, I think. It just,

you know, when we're working on that, then I

think other people around us become more hopeful.

I'm just thinking that hope meter on the bottom

of the screen that just, you know, as we work

towards, actively work towards growing our hope,

you know, and that meter is getting higher and

higher and higher when we do take a hit. Right.

And and and the hope goes goes low or lower.

I mean, if we've been working towards that, actively

working to building that, then we can take a

hit and it's not as big a deal. But if we haven't

been actively if we haven't we haven't been working

on hope in action, then then our health, our

hope meter is low and that hit can be much more

devastating. Sure. Right. Sure. I like that.

I like the concept of of act, you know, hope

in action and like hope in action. Like as in

we have a calling, we have a thing to do and

it doesn't depend on us. Right. But like my hope

is ultimately in what Jesus is doing in the world.

So I get to participate in that. And that gives

me things to do to like build up my hope muscle

or my hope meter. Yeah. But it doesn't depend

on me. We are not the fuel in the tank. Yeah.

We can help to put the fuel in the tank. Yes.

Yeah. So I want to end with another verse from

Romans. We spent a lot of time chatting about

Romans. Romans is a good book for hope. It's

a good book. Yeah. And so this is just a blessing

that Paul says to the church in Rome that I want

to sort of leave us with. So it says this. May

the God of all hope fill you with all joy and

peace as you trust in him so that you may overflow

with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Overflow.

Overflow with hope. Like that. By the power of

the Holy Spirit. Yeah. God's doing a thing. Look

at that. And it's good. Amen. Yeah. Your hope

buyer is 150%. Yeah. This is pretty good. Thank

you so much, folks. And thank you for tuning

in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. Yeah.

I pray that you are filled with hope by the power

of the Holy Spirit this week. Whether that makes

sense in your circumstances or not, I just pray

that you would find that sense of hope and that

that hope would be infectious to the folks around

you. Amen. And we will see you again next week.