Peace That Changes Everything | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Britton.

And I am Bill. And we are here to continue chatting

about Advent, this season that prepares us to

celebrate Christmas. And today we are lighting

two candles, one, two, on our table here. So

the first candle we talked about last week is

the candle of hope. The second candle is the

candle of peace. Peace is nice. I think we would

all love some peace. Yeah, but just sort of as

a starter, when you hear the word peace, what

comes to mind for you? Stillness. Stillness.

Okay. Yes. Very chill. Yeah. Calmness. Yeah.

Quiet. Yeah. Tranquility. Yes. Things that, like

I said, I think we could all use a little more

of that. Peace and quiet. Yes. Yes. Mixed together.

Often come together. Beautiful mix. Peace and

quiet. Yes. So dads are hard to buy Christmas

presents for. And my dad, every year when I'm

like, hey dad, what do you want for Christmas?

He says, I would like peace on earth. Okay. And

this is a great idea. I unfortunately cannot

order it from Amazon. It's not offered? No, it

is not. But yeah. It's something I think we're

all hoping for and something that sounds really

nice, but is a little elusive maybe. I don't

know. Yeah. Yeah. So peace is this like stillness

and calmness is when we think about peace in

a Christian context, we think about, okay, God

gives us peace. Is that what we're talking about?

Is it this sense of stillness and calmness? Is

it something different than that? I think most

of the time, When we think of peace, we don't

actually think of the definition of peace. We

think of what peace isn't or what the opposite

of peace is. I think we're more familiar or comfortable.

um, with, uh, with war understanding like war.

Um, and, uh, and then when we say, you know,

peace, we talk about pieces, pieces, the absence

of war is, I mean, we don't like war. We would,

and when war ends, we have peace. Right. But

I, but, uh, I think, but beyond that, I don't

think that there's a, I mean, it's a goal to

have peace and to be peaceful, but I, but I think

we're as a culture, as a people, I think we're

kind of stuck in the chaotic. I think maybe we,

we like, um, the, uh, It may not like, you know,

war, but just the chaos of of that and and the

and maybe not as familiar or as comfortable with

peace, even though it's something that we say

we want. Sure. Yeah. We often, I think, define

peace as like what it's not to say like, OK,

we don't want war. We don't want yelling. We

don't want noise and chaos. But what is peace?

But what is peace? Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

The definition. You're right. The definition

was or is. uh, the, what was it? Oh, I had it.

Yeah. A stater period in which there is no war

or war has ended. And like the Christian context

that like, I think I struggle with that. Like

I, especially today and like seeing how like.

everyone's trying to close off wars and stop

them, which I think is a good thing. For sure.

But as soon as a war ends, doesn't mean that

there's peace. Right. And I don't, I don't think

that's like, it is the stopping of something,

the stopping of some form of injustice or the

stopping of violence. doesn't automatically create,

it can create the conditions for peace to be

shared. On the road to peace. Yes. It's a pathway.

It's definitely needed, but the stopping of something,

the stopping of a negative doesn't automatically

create a positive. And I think the Christian

sense is there is something more that has to

happen that God calls us into and calls us to

experience in order for that peace to happen.

So I would tell Oxford Dictionary, maybe you

need to add a couple more. more sentences. With

a more positive definition of peace as opposed

to what it's not. Yeah. I also think like while

you guys were talking about that, I realized

like a lot of like the marketing tactics that

we see like on advertisements and stuff is like

they're always trying to market peace through

the chaos. Like, oh, if you see, I don't know,

an advertisement for a coffee, right? Then they're

like, oh, early morning coffee, see the sunrise.

It's a lovely, gentle experience. But it's always

a lure. It's never achievable. I mean, the idea,

the commercialization of peace is always something

that is almost attainable. If you have that coffee,

then yes, then maybe you can get peace. If you

have this, you get this. If you buy this, then

it's always something lacking externally. That

will, in a consumerism culture, that will be,

that's the answer, right? If you only get this,

then you can maybe achieve peace. Exactly. I

would even say it's a distraction. And we're

so hungry for peace. We're so hungry for... almost

like escapism from what we see in this world,

that some of that marketing is just pushing something

that can like subside or get us to ignore the

chaos that we're experiencing today. I think

there's many things that we do, especially in

the consumerism, that is like trying to fill

a void, trying to create conditions for peace.

But really what it's doing is just ignoring the

real problems that is preventing peace from being

possible. And I think consumerism does a lot

of that. Like people go to the mall. to buy things,

not necessarily because they need anything, but

because they're looking to, like, I think there's

a study that shows like you buy like two, three

things and like you start to, something happens

in your body. You start to feel good. Yeah. And

I can say, that's true. When I buy a pair of

Nikes, I feel better about myself. Cause you're

a person wearing Nikes now. That's pretty cool.

Is it really like after I see that bill that

I'm back to like where I was before? I'm like,

oh, should I really have done this? Right. And

all the things that I was trying to feel like

I haven't actually done those things. So, yeah,

I think it's more I think we create we assume

or we like to act like things that are peaceful

or is what we assume is peaceful. It's actually

I think it's just us avoiding the deeper issues

that we have within our world. Yeah. Like coffee

masks. tiredness right like yeah you take caffeine

to kind of boost your energy yes i did that this

morning I'm still tired. Just not for now. Yeah,

for sure. I think we often think that peace is

something that we can achieve for ourselves,

but the Bible tells us it's a gift. Right. And

I think part of the reason that we're even in

our conversation here and as a larger people

where we have a problem defining peace is because

I think it's indefinable in a certain way. It

is hard to describe. It's unknowable. The Bible

says that you'll be given a peace that is beyond

understanding. We're not meant to get it. It's

a gift from God. It's the peace of Christ. And

I think as a gift. It's something that we have

for ourselves. It becomes a state of our being.

And although we can't get it ourselves, I think

it's not only a gift, but it's also a discipline.

So I think once we have peace given to us by

Christ, then we can work. on, uh, growing it

and building it up within ourselves. It's like

a, like a muscle, right? The same way our muscles,

we didn't get, we didn't get our muscles. Our

muscles are gifts. And, uh, but we can, we can

through discipline and through hard work, working

out, we can grow our muscles, strengthen our

muscles. And so I think we, in the same way,

we can also, uh, strengthen our, uh, sense of,

uh, peace, not only within ourselves, but but

radiating that peace in the, in the larger community.

So I think, you know, while it is a gift from

God, I think, I think peace can also be a flex.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like the kids say. Yeah. And

the, and so that, and, and be Christ. to others.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. There's a couple

of things that come to mind for me when I think

about peace and trying to figure out what it

is. And one is the Hebrew word Shalom, which

gets translated as peace. But one of the reasons

that I love that word is because it just has

so many other meanings sort of layered in it.

So it's like peace, but it's also a sense of

wholeness, a sense of being complete. and justice

and like things are set right. Yes. Right. And

that I think gives us a positive vision of, okay,

what we're working for is not just no conflict.

What we're working for is a sense of wholeness,

which makes it harder, but at least gives me

a vision of like, okay, well I'm not just trying

to stop something. I'm trying to like put something

better and deeper and more meaningful in its

place. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other

passage that comes to mind for me, especially

during Advent, when we talk about peace is in

Isaiah chapter nine. And so there that's the

section where, you know, the Christmassy part

that we always talk about is for to us, a child

is born to us. A son is given. The government

will be on his shoulders. He will be called Wonderful

Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince

of Peace. That's that's the Christmas part that

we get to. But if we go a little bit before that.

The reason that Isaiah is saying for to us, a

child is born. Like, so why do we care that this

child is born? And he's saying the people who

are walking in darkness have seen a great light.

And then he says things like people will rejoice

before the Lord because the yoke that burdens

them has been shattered. The bar across their

shoulders, the rod of their oppressors, all of

these things are gone. Every warrior's boot that

was used in battle and every garment rolled in

blood will be destined for burning, will be fuel

for the fire. Right? All of that. All of those

things that were causing pain, were causing conflict,

are just gone. Right? And that's the vision.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Just reflect on that. When you

hear that, what does that sort of bring up in

you? I'm reading that I'm in reading this. Yeah.

I was thinking about it first. I just jumped

to revelations because revelations 21 really

echoes this, this promise and it shows it in

its completeness. But as you were reading it,

I started to see it through the lens of Jesus's

contemporary audience, which were, they were

reading this like every day and just waiting

for this Messiah. And it's, it's making me think

about like the, we desire, we, everyone desires

peace and we desire restoration. And, um, I could

see, and I I'm tempted even now to, to read it

through this, like, uh, easy access or like a

quick, uh, redemption narrative. Like when he

says that the government will be on his shoulders

and that yoke will come off of you. I can understand

how they were waiting for a Messiah that would

have had, uh, like would have created change

and freedom from oppression, like right in that

moment. Right. Like big political change. Cause

what they thought was Jesus was going to come

and become a King on earth and just rip up the

Roman government and it would have, they would

have reigned on earth in that moment. And that

didn't happen. It didn't happen that way. There

was something new that happened. There was something

beautiful that happened. It was restoration in

many ways, but it didn't happen in that moment.

And yeah, I think like, as we were saying before,

I think if Peace is so like McDonald's to us.

And it's so like drive through. We could be so

fixated on what happens now. But like the peace

that passes understanding is is something first

that's really hard to comprehend. And it's I

think Christian Christianity, the way that we

should see peace is like we're looking forward.

We're looking for that renewal and not be tempted

by the. easy things that could come now, like

the quick fix, but I'm reading it and I'm like,

yeah, I get it. I get why they were, why they

thought that was going to happen in that moment.

Right. Um, cause if your burden is so like your

yoke is so heavy, like, of course you want that,

that simple, not simple, but. you want something

fixed in this moment. And yeah, that's really

hard to wrestle with, but I'll stop there. Yeah.

Yeah. No. And it just like, it creates this idea

of a kind of peace that just quickly overthrows

enemies. Right. And like, I wonder like how that

fits in with this concept of peace. Like is Jesus

on this side of like, okay, we're creating peace

that just like immediately discount some people

or is there like a redemptive? element in there

for those who were the oppressor right like i

think there's yeah we can wrestle with like what

that piece how that all fits together too i don't

know it kind of reminds me of like um the passage

where You know, all the disciples are on the

boat and Jesus is like sleeping in the boat.

Yeah. He's like taking a nap and it's like a

wild storm and everything. And everyone's like,

oh my God, we're going to die. Jesus, wake up,

do something. Right? Yeah. And they're probably

thinking, oh, he'll find a way to like, kind

of like rally them up and like get them out of

the storm. But he's just like, be still. That's

it. That's all you got to do. Yeah. And then

everything calmed down. Right. So like how you

were saying in simple terms, it's just that.

We're expecting an escape route really quick,

quick fix, right? But Jesus is like, even amongst

that storm, you can literally walk on that water

or we can part that sea. And Jesus will calm

the storm. The promise is not to leave you in

the disaster. The promise is to trust and to

wait. And that brings us back to that whole Advent,

right? Like that waiting and that longing, but

also in the knowing that it will come. Right.

Yeah, for sure. I think our human sense of peace

is very fragile. I think it takes one person

to start a war, to create chaos amongst a group

of people. But really, it takes everyone to create

peace. When one person doesn't, you don't have

peace, at least not in a complete sense. And

that's why peace talks are so tough. Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's easy to start a war. It's a lot

harder to start peace. Yep. But in the Christian

sense that you were talking about, we were talking

about Jesus as the Prince of Peace. I think there

is a much more... full and complete and tangible

sense. I kind of think of it as like a heavy

weighted blanket, right? And the peace of God

is kind of like that weighted blanket on conflict

and injustice, whereas it is not dependent on

us. It's external. It's spiritual and divine.

And it comes down and you feel the effect of

that. I think the other thing about the Prince

of Peace coming to a world of chaos and unrest

is that our sense of... peace, uh, and war is

that it's, it's, it has to be kind of one or

the other. And I think, uh, and I think there

is, um, a godly peace that resides in the chaos.

Uh, and that rep for me, that represents Jesus

coming into the, into the world, right. Uh, being

that Prince of peace in a world of, uh, and a

chaotic and an unjust world. Um, uh, the, um,

and I think as Christians, I mean, as, being

gifted with peace, then we are Jesus in the world.

And I think that we are called also to be peace

in a chaotic and unjust world. And that's our

role. That's our task to go out and just to emulate

or resonate God's peace in and through us. I

just, in terms of the, you know, the kind of

the work that I've, I've done in the past and

I'm training to become a deacon and then, you

know, Lord willing, when I become a deacon, you

know, a lot of my interest in my role is to,

is to be, is not, is to do it myself, but I'll,

but to be encouraging people to go out into the

community and to, and to be Christ in the world

and to, and I think a lot of that is about. extending

that sense of peace. And I mean, probably have

had it happen to you. It's happened to a lot

of people where they come up to you and go, you

know, why are you different than everybody else?

And I think people get a sense of that. And I

think one of the reasons why they sense that

from Christians. is when they have a mature faith

and they have an attitude of, among other things,

peace, and then that makes a difference around

them. And people see that, whether that's the

light or however you want to describe it. But

for this conversation, we're talking about...

being, uh, peaceful as, as a people and being,

and emanating that sense of peace. It's not from

us, but it's just flows through God and, uh,

and, and people are drawn to that and they want

to, they may not understand it, but they want

to know. And sometimes they ask, why are you

different? Like all this stuff is happening in

the world and you know, you seem, you know, calm,

you seem relaxed, you seem at peace. Why are

you at peace when all this stuff is going on?

Yeah. Yeah, as you were talking there, I was

sort of thinking about, OK, so then what does

it mean to be someone who is at peace and someone

who like carries peace into the world and into

our relationships? Because I think one of the

temptations that I sometimes face is to conflate

peace and conflict avoidance and to say that,

OK, in order to be a peaceful person in the world,

I always need to just be polite and. non -offensive

right and i think that's part of it i think that

there are moments where we're called to just

let that be but i think that if we're talking

about a deeper kind of peace there are going

to be moments where me being a person of peace

in the world is going to be uncomfortable for

myself and maybe for the other person right if

i'm sort of coming up against their False sense

of peace or my false sense of peace. I'm remembering.

So I took this class in undergrad. It was conflict

resolution. And my professor, he made us memorize

the prayer of Francis of Assisi, which I don't

remember. off the top of my head totally anymore.

So sorry, Dr. Boyce. But it still comes back

to me and it was making me, when you were speaking,

I remembered, I started thinking about it and

it says, Lord, make me an instrument of your

peace. where there is hatred, let me sow love,

where there is injury, pardon, where there is

doubt, faith, where there is despair, hope, where

there is darkness, light, where there is sadness,

joy. And I think the second part, I won't read

the whole thing, but, oh, divine master, grant

that I may not so much seek to be consoled as

to console, to be understood as to understand,

and to be loved as to love. And I think the part

that is what it calls me to think of is, Peace,

I think that conflict avoidant part is like us

trying to create that sense of peace for ourself.

And I think it comes from. Like humans naturally

are very selfish. We're trying to survive and

we can kind of try and like if I can protect

myself, then I'll be fine. And I think sometimes

that makes us like flip into like this victim

mode where like one we can avoid to only bad

things can happen to me and I could do no wrong.

And but what this prayer, I think, calls us to

remember is that. Peace is active. As Christians,

we're also called to share that peace. And peace

also calls us into right relationship and calls

us to seek to... to end the things where we were

participating in it, where we where we have created

senses of un -peace and injustice like we need

to un -peace. That's not a word. That was good.

Yeah. Well, maybe Oxford, add that one. Where

we have created conditions for for violence or

for harm. It's our responsibility to to to. to

make those things right. Um, and so, yeah, like

it's not just me sitting in a corner saying,

well, I wasn't participating in that, but to

be very involved in creating those conditions,

um, calling things out, naming, helping people

when I can, uh, make like it used to be an instrument.

Like I'm willing to be used God and whether it's

uncomfortable for me or it's, it's comforting.

I need to be participating in that. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely an attitude check,

I think. Cause like while you were saying the,

what's it called? The prayer of Francis and Sassy.

It's a peacemaker prayer. The peacemaker prayer.

Yeah. So when you, when you were saying that,

and then we were also kept. you know, referencing

to Philippians saying about the peace that surpasses

all understanding, right? This is actually the

scripture that I've been kind of sort of practicing

at work because like it's super fast paced. I

make a lot of mistakes. I'm a trainee, right?

And so I looked at the verse before that. So

it's Philippians chapter four, verses six to

seven. So six starts going, do not be anxious

over anything, but by prayer and petition. with

thanksgiving now that's an attitude check because

a lot of us are like oh my gosh we i want to

bring my request to god and like you know get

it solved but we don't realize most of it is

to be grateful for what we have and actually

serve in those fields right and so yeah so then

the rest goes like with thanksgivings bring your

request to god so that the peace that surpasses

all understanding protects your mind and your

heart in Christ Jesus. And I was like, once I

started meditating on that and trying to practice

that at workplace, I was like, this is like flipping

the switch on my attitude. for everything that

I do. Right. And that's how we can do everything

for the glory of God. Right. And I feel like

that's like basically the solution, the attitude

check and then being able to serve. I like the

idea that, uh, peace is protective, uh, defensive.

Uh, it's, uh, the, uh, and it's, uh, and it's

also active. Right. And when you, when you read

through the, uh, the prayer of St. Francis, uh,

it is, uh, it is replacing the negative. with

the positive. So it's not just the cessation

of negative things, war and violence and injustice

and all that, but it's also to put in its place

all the positive things. uh and love and hope

and uh and serving others and all you know all

that kind of stuff that that that uh so peace

isn't just the you know stopping war but it is

uh it is creating the environment where people

can can live together um in a much more positive

way absolutely yeah and i think like i'm just

sort of going back to like where we started this

conversation in talking about You know, peace

is the thing that we all desire. And like the

world knows that everybody knows marketing knows

that we all want this sense of peace. But do

we are we willing to put in the hard work to

get there? I think is a question. Right. And

are we willing to say that maybe the peace that

we actually want looks different than the peace

that we think we want? Like, I might think. that

i want peace but if my if peace like real peace

is gonna come at a cost where like maybe it means

that like i need to look at some of my areas

of privilege and like divest myself of that so

that other people can experience peace yeah right

like that's hard do i want peace around people

to stop calling me out or being annoying yeah

just be silent so I don't have to hear all the

problems which I yeah it's It's true. Yeah. Going

back to the beginning to your dads are hard to

buy for. Yes. And he says your dad's response

was, you know, what he wanted was peace in the

world. Yes. That was I was very impressed with

that answer because it's because it's so altruistic.

Right. I mean, I think for a lot of people, when

we wish for peace, where we want the peace and

quiet, that is just for us. Right. I mean, we

want to be, you know, leave me alone. You know,

I. I have visions of like, you know, someone

like soaking in the tub. Right. You know, some

candles. Yes, I want peace. I want a day off.

And a glass of wine and stuff. Just don't bother

me for half an hour. I just need some peace and

quiet. Right? It's so internal. It's so greedy.

Right? In a sense, that kind of peace. And where

we can kind of grab for it and we cling on to

it. And we don't want to share it. We don't want

anyone else to be part of that. But what your

dad wanted was peace in the world. And I think

that's the... That's a much more altruistic,

much more, I think, kind of open and unselfish

understanding and defining peace. Peace can't

be one person. It needs to be shared and cultivated

in a larger group, grown and developed. Cultivated.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's an action. It's

a choice that we each make individually, but

then joining all of those individual actions

together. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then it

just turns into the gift of peace that it is.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think like, so sort of like

we said with hope last week, that like hope is

both a gift given to us from God and then a calling

or something that we have to like go out and

do. I think peace is similar, right? It's a gift

that we get from God. God says, here's some peace.

Like, like you get that in, in your heart and

now go and live that out in your relationships.

Right. Yeah. Like, I see it as like a kind of

like echoing back to the passage that you were

referencing, like this covering, but the covering,

like protecting your heart is not just for you,

but it's so that you can be active in the world

so that you can share that experience with others

so that they can also protect their heart. Because

the reality is we need it. The world hasn't just

been hard now. If we think about the conditions

that Isaiah wrote that whole book on, it's been

hard. But the only way we can get through it,

the only way that we can get that yoke removed

and we can experience that freedom. Now is by

having that covering so that we can get to that

promise, that ultimate promise that Christ has

promised us and that Christ will provide, like

the storm will end. But until then, there's this

promise that we have, this covering that we have

that can get us through until it's ended. Yeah.

Yeah. It's the now. we get some of that and not

yet. It's coming. Yeah. Advent. Yeah. Advent.

Well, the idea of peace is tied to Christmas

quite a lot. I mean, like you, you read a passage

from Isaiah that, that is, that's read a lot

this time of year because it points to Christ

coming into the world, the Prince of Peace coming

into a world of chaos. And, and I think, so,

you know, part of that is very intentional, but

I think too, we, we are, we, We do yearn for

peace. the time of Christmas is a time for us

to be kind of reflecting on, on that kind of

stuff and, and, and working towards, um, you

know, a better world. And I mean, you hear the

stories of soldiers during war on Christmas day,

you know, not fighting, but they coming together

and sharing a Christmas meal together. And, and,

uh, and then next, next day, the, the, you know,

guns start blasting again, but they, uh, but

that one, that one day, you know, the, um, uh,

they, uh, people can come together in, in peace

because, uh, a shared meaning and understanding

of what peace is during Christmas. Yeah, for

sure. You just need to make that last all year

long. If only the meal was like, you know, there's

some sort of conversation that happens within

that and they're like, you know what, let's not

do this tomorrow. Which is ironic because with

most families is when they come together for

a meal, that's when there is no peace. That's

when the peace shatters. Right, yes. Well, thank

you so much, folks. I think this has been a really

rich conversation to figure out not just what

peace isn't, but what it is. And also then to

challenge us to live that. And yes, to experience

that as a gift from God and to remember we get

this. It's real. And it's hard. And we can go

out and share that with other people. Yeah. Thank

you. And thank you for tuning in to this week's

episode of Trinity Talks. I pray that your week

is filled with moments of peace and that whether

that is challenging or whether that is joyful

for you, that, yeah, you can just find that sense

of peace that passes all understanding, that

keeps your heart and mind now and in the days

ahead. And we will see you again next week.