Being Happy Is Not Enough: Joy For Real | Trinity Talks Podcast

Good morning, everyone and welcome to this week's

episode of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm

Britton. Naraya. Good morning. My name is Bill.

And we're here to continue chatting about Advent,

this season that prepares us to celebrate the

birth of Christ. And today we get to light three

candles. One, two, three. So first candle, hope.

Second candle is peace. The third candle is joy.

And just to make it extra fun, the third candle

is pink. Love it. Yeah. It's actually my favorite

color. This is awesome. Um, yeah, I don't actually,

I meant to look up why this candle is pink and

then I neglected to do that. Oh, is it like purposely

pink? Yeah, the joy candle is always pink. Yes.

Oh, you know. Okay. It is, uh, it's, it's meant

to, uh, um, most of the candle or most of the

time of an event is, is a time of, um, uh, repentance.

But the week that we talk about joy is meant

to be a time of exuberance. So part of representing

that is the pink color of the candle. OK, there

we go. See, I didn't need to look it up. You

were here to provide all of the knowledge. Exuberantly

joyful, really joyful. This is awesome. OK, so

then when we think about joy, other than exuberance,

are there other words or sort of ideas that come

to mind for us? a deep sense of happiness. It's

not just, you know, happiness is like, oh, okay,

I'm happy. I got a cup of water. Yeah. Or my

tea or coffee. Bill is slightly more happy because

his cup has coffee. I have tea. I have tea. I

am slightly more happy than her. But like joy

is like, it runs deep. It's like, it's almost

like as if it's coming out of your belly. That's

how deep I feel. Okay. Yeah. Belly explosion

of joy. I won't even say what I'm thinking. This

is just a very joyful conversation already. We

just say joy and snap. So when I think of joy,

I think of my own experiences of joy. For me,

I think that when I've been the most joyful is

probably the birth of my children. It's been

kind of an explosion of joy for that. And ups

and downs since then, as is the case with everybody.

But joy, I mean, incredibly joyful, the birth

of a child and raising a child and seeing them

grow up and stuff like that for sure. And then

because it's Advent and we're talking about the

coming of Jesus, And Advent is the anticipation

of Jesus' birth. So if I think, how joyful was

I at the birth of my child, then God must be

super joyful at the coming of the birth of Jesus

and the joy to the world and what that's going

to mean. And I know lots of people have... gender

reveal party. So I'm just imagining, you know,

what a gender reveal party would be for God or

for Jesus. But in his case, it would be more

like a messiah reveal party, right? And when

you think about it, think about the Christmas

story, right? What an incredible messiah reveal

party is that? He put a star in the sky. You

know, he had angels, choirs of angels singing,

you know, angels appeared to the shepherds and

the wise men and the three kings followed the

star to find Jesus and all this kind of stuff.

I mean, that incredible Messiah reveal party.

That was the story of Christmas. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, what about for you, Bert, when you think

about joy? Well, I looked for the definition,

which I feel like maybe this is going to be a

segment now. What does Oxford Dictionary say

versus what does the Bible say? OK. And it says

a feeling of great pleasure and happiness. OK.

Which is true, which is true. But I guess when

we get into the text, we'll debunk it a little

bit. Yeah, for me, I feel like joy is like happiness

is a moment, right? It happens based on maybe

circumstance or like there's a moment in time

where you you feel like a great sense of happiness.

But joy to me has always been a hard word to

define. Sure. Because it feels almost inexplainable.

But when you when it happens, like the birth

of your child, when it happens, it's like, whoa.

And it's like that explosion, but a good explosion.

Yes, yes. So when I think about Joy, OK, and

the the Sunday, the Joy Sunday of Advent is a

particularly special Sunday for me because it

was on Joy Sunday that I was baptized. And it

was this like. Kind of as you said in explainable

feeling of joy Yeah That I was like like not

expecting at all and like going into this day

So I was baptized like when I was like 13 and

so it was like a process that I sort of went

through and then had to like share my Testimony

a little bit in front of the congregation. So

it's like a nerve -racking kind of experience

but then to be followed up with this In explainable

joy and the sense of like okay all is well um

even if it's not all well but like yeah just

that that feeling yeah that's funny because i

was yesterday my dad was in a play that just

so happened to be taking place at the church

that i was baptized and it was similar to you

like i went through this process and decided

to be baptized yeah and i was just looking at

the baptismal spot um that's there it's blocked

by a screen but i could still feel the essence

of it And I remember that feeling, like I remember

going through the hallway after I got dunked

and just being dunked into the water. Yes. There

was something, yeah, like what do you dunked

on? Like basketball, baptism by shots. But no,

like when that happened, it was it was inexplainable.

Yeah. And whenever I step into that building,

it's it's. There's something that happens to

me. Like, I feel like I'm teleported into being

a child in that moment. And it's just such a

unique experience. It's inexplainable, though.

Yeah. Yeah. Joy. It's a pretty cool thing. So

we sort of alluded to this. Like, there's a bit

of a difference, I think, between joy and happiness.

But if you were like to try and, like, pull those

two things apart, like, what would you say makes

them different? Um, I think like the similarities

is obviously like there's like, it's a positive

sort of feeling. Um, but like, I think you talked

about it, like joy being a little deeper, much

deeper because like when you're happiness, I

mean, when you're happy, you're kind of like,

okay, yeah, I'm happy about whatever is happening.

And it's like more circumstantial. Sure. Whereas

joy is like, It's like so deep rooted, like it's

part of your character almost. Right. Or like

how the, you know, when we're talking about the

fruit of the spirit, joy is one of them. Right.

So like your character, your personality, it

has it with it. Right. Right. And then even when

we're looking at scripture, all throughout Psalms,

you see sing for joy, shout for joy. Right. And

those are like. again, explosive expressions.

Whereas happiness is a little more like downplayed.

We're like, yeah, I'm really happy about this.

Right. That's how I see the difference. I feel

that the Bible talks more about joy than happiness.

But I think as a culture, we talk more about

happiness than joy. And I think they're on the

same side of the equation. Joy and happiness

are similar in some ways. I think one is a subset

of the other. I think happiness is a subset of

joy. You can contain happiness in joy, not the

other way around. But in a way, I think they're

separate and unique from each other. The Bible

talks about happiness and joy in the same sentence,

same verse. So that for me is a hint that there's

some difference between the two, that they're

not synonymous. And I think, like you, I think

happiness is kind of more of a feeling, but not

as... not as big and as strong and as deep as

joy is. And I think that also in terms of our

Christian faith, I think we're promised joy,

but not necessarily happiness. So I think that's

a huge distinction. When most people in our culture

are trying to be happy and some... Most? I don't

know. I might not be achieving it. Sure. Right?

That's hard for people where happiness is your

goal. Right. But if joy is your goal as a promise

of God, a promise from God, then when you're

not happy or as happy, You know, you're you you

realize that the end goal isn't to be happy.

The end goal is to experience the joy of God.

Right. And that can get you through those times

of unhappiness. Right. I think so. There's a

huge difference. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I

agree with what both of you said. And in thinking

about it, like joy isn't circumstantial. I think

happiness has like a very clear roadmap as to

how you became happy. Um, but joy is something

that truly is a gift from God. Um, and it's,

it's like, I was thinking of, I don't know if

this might not be like my Grammarly moment, but,

um, like you can't say happy full. You say happy,

but you can say joyful, you can say peaceful.

Right. So to be full of. Yeah. Yeah. So it's

something that you receive. That's interesting.

You can't be full of happy. Yeah. I am full of

happy today. No, but yeah, but maybe maybe there's

a connection there. I don't know. Yeah, maybe.

I have to go back to my Oxford dictionary. So

then like this leads me as I think about like

the difference between joy and happiness to think

about like what do these things like look like

in the world? And I think happiness is like fairly

obvious in what it looks like. Like if someone's

happy, they're like smiling. They're like having

a good time. I think one can be joyful and not

be like. exuberantly joyful. Right. Like I think

there's such a thing as like a quiet joy, maybe

where like we we feel like, OK, this is good.

There's something good that we're like building

towards. But it makes space for the fact that

like not everybody is like feeling that in the

moment or like the moment itself is not the cause

of the joy, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. Like,

does that make sense? I think, yeah, it does

because like when, you know, when we say like,

oh, I'm enjoying this song. Right. We're not

like completely like dancing about and like singing

the lyrics or whatever. We're enjoying it just

in our own space. Sure. Right. And I also think

that when it comes to joy, like how you were

saying, like obviously we were talking about

it being explosive and everything. Yeah. And

I think it can be. It can be. But When you have

that deep sense, like even when the circumstance

seems like it's completely terrible. Yeah. Right.

Like I think I mentioned this way before, but

like about the book of Philippians, it's like

the happiest book or the book of joy. Right.

And what was his circumstance? He's in he's in

prison. His future looks like as if, you know,

death is around the corner. But he's just so

happy to be serving the Lord and like knowing

that he's reaching out to the people. that he's

just in that joy. Right. And it's a quiet joy.

And the only way he's expressing it is through

words. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That makes me think

that in a lot of cases, when you're talking about

being happy, it's more of a personal me thing.

Yeah. It's my feeling. Yeah. And when you're

when you're talking about joy, it is more of

a communal or even global idea. The. For me,

the difference between happiness and joy, go

on a Christmas analogy, is like the Christmas

tree, the stand and the tree is joy. It's sturdy,

stable. Hopefully. It's done right. Just having

your tree up. You know, that is a great indicator

of the Christmas season. Yeah. But the it's the

it's the decorations, the lights, the tinsel,

the the ornaments. And that's for me, that's

happiness. And that's that's the that's the icing

on the cake. It's the ornament on the tree. It's

the happiness that covers, you know, that that's,

you know, is the bubbling up of joy or something

like that. Right. Yeah. Oh, that's solid. Yeah,

I think like joy. It is something that, how do

I say this? It's not circumstantial. I think

with joy, it shifts your perspective. I was reading

Philippians this morning and hearing Paul talk

about the circumstance that he was in and also

the circumstance that the Philippians were in.

He was thanking them for all the things that

they did for him. but also saying, like, I know

those things are not recognized. Right. Be joyful.

So like folks might not there might not be a

reason like people are not giving you a reason

to be joyful. Yeah. But through Christ, you have

this joy, despite what other people might think,

despite of what you're going through. Even Paul

talks about his own circumstance and he's like,

well, life's kind of rough right here. But I

consider it all joy because he sees what God

is doing. And I think that changes if we were

to apply it to our own lives. I think there is

joy when you're given that gift of joy. It gives

you an opportunity to see the world differently,

to see your own circumstance differently. And

that in itself is a reason to rejoice. It's not

like when you get something tonight, you have

this, you know, I'm happy about this because

I got something. He actually talks about the

fact that like it's. It's not something that

we can attain ourselves. Like, it's not like

there's no merit points for it. Yeah, for joy.

Like he was talking about, um, it's like, you

know, I have a reason to boast in my own merits

and the things that I've done. Like I and he

lists off how Jewish he is, um, and how he's

practiced all these things. And he has, he has

all these reasons to be. to be boastful, but

he's not boasting in that. He's boasting in Christ.

Right. He's boasting in what Christ has given

him. So, yeah. So regardless of what people are

going through. And I think for me, like that

was one of the things in my Christian journey

that has held me fast. It's not it hasn't been.

all the stability around me, but it's Christ.

And it's Christ being the anchor, regardless

of what we're going through, regardless of what

is seen or unseen, Christ is there. And in that,

that's reason enough to be joyful. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah, I totally agree with that. I actually want

to add, it reminded me of when I first started

my journey as a Christian, sometime like around

2019, something like that. I would claim myself

to be a Christian, but I would see people on

TikTok or YouTube, and they're talking about

Christ, they're talking about some of the words

that God has given them, and they would seem

so happy. And I'm like, here I am, I'm actually

happy with where I am, but that's a different

kind of happy. What are they doing that I don't

do? And when I first started, developing my relationship

with Christ. Right. I was like, hey, so you promised

peace and joy. How come I don't have it in that

deep sense? Right. And because they all seem

like they're really joyful, even though they're

like, you know, they're crying and some of those

videos are like, oh, my gosh, this is happening.

But God is so good. Yeah. And I'm like, how is

that? Why? How? It's not laughing for me. And

and then like. By 2020, when I finally got into

my word and dove deep and I was like, God, I'm

trying to surrender to you. I want to fully understand

what this is and what it means to be a Christian

and be your ambassador. And that was when I felt

joy for the first time and then eventually got

baptized. So, yeah, when you were talking about

like how it's like given kind of thing, I was

like, oh, my gosh, yeah, like I saw it with these

Christians who surrender their lives. Right.

And they were like, you know, despite everything,

they were like, we have this knowing that God

is so good. And so I feel this joy. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So when you talk about joy and what is

joy, I think the Bible talks about joy. There's

a. passage in John 15, it's, you know, the verses,

I have told you that this is, I told you this

so that my joy may be in you and that your joy

may be complete. It's giving me a sense that

there's, there's some understanding, there's

some essence. that is joy that John experienced

and had in his life and he wants to communicate

this to us so that we may experience this joy

and in fact it may be complete in us and the

passages before this is the vine and the branches.

So Jesus talking about that He is the vine and

the Father is the gardener and just kind of being

in Him and all this kind of stuff. And later

on, He says, as the Father has loved me, so have

I loved you, now remain in my love. If you keep

my commands, you will remain in my love, just

as I have kept my Father's commands and remain

in His love. There's remain in me, it's a big

part of that and there's love there. And then

that's when he has the verse that I've told you

this so that. you may so that I may pass on my

joy and your joy might be complete. So you look

to those earlier verses as a sense of what joy

is and understanding, you know, who Jesus is,

who God is, our relationship to Jesus, to God.

And then you get a sense of what makes up true

joy for us as Christians. Sure. Yeah, but it

is. very much connected to that, like, abiding

in God, being in God, spending time with God

and God's people and all of these things, right?

Because I think that's really helpful for us

to think about, like, how do we cultivate joy

and, like, what does joy look like? Because joy,

like I said, as we've all sort of said, can be

this, like, really big exuberant thing, but it's

built in community. Like I think one of the challenges

that sometimes comes up with joy is that we think

that it means that we need to be like super exuberant

and happy all the time and that we then like

sort of Bypass, you know the hard stuff and we

serve say ah, well sure life sucks right now

But the Bible says always be joyful and God says

here's some joy. So I just need to pretend it's

all good But like that's not joy joy allows for

the hard things brings them to God, brings them

to community and says, there's still good happening

here, I think. I can't remember if it's spiritual

bypassing, but it sounds like what you're describing.

Yeah. And I think that's an easy thing that we

tend to jump to. We tend to think like if I'm

going to be like a good Christian, if I'm going

to show that like God is good, then I need to

ignore all the bad things. And that's challenging

when if we're at church and a church member comes

to you and says, hey, my life is really garbage

right now. I'm going through a really difficult

time. the thing that we'll jump to is say, well,

you know, God is good. And you just like you

kind of ignore it. Sure. Let's just let's just

jump away from it. And I don't think that's what

Paul was doing in Philippians at all. And I don't

think that's what God calls us to do. I don't

think God calls us to ignore the difficult times.

But I think what it does like it's what God is

calling us to do is to tap into the source. Right.

to happen to the source, recognize that we're

a part of this vineyard that is being nurtured,

that is being sustained, not on our own merits,

not on our own good deeds, but by God. And God

promises to continue to do that. So I think it's

not necessarily ignoring the bad things, but

calling them out. I think if we call them out,

God will be there for us. I think it's easy for

us to think if I'm going to maintain a sense

of joy, then I need to ignore all the hard things.

Paul talked about being in prison. And then there

was lots of other moments we see in the New Testament,

the Old Testament of really terrible times. The

Psalms is a great place to go. David and a lot

of the Psalmist talked a lot about the difficult

things that they were going to, and they wrote

songs about those things, not to bypass them,

but to say, you know, God, you promised me this

thing. You promised me joy. You promised me peace.

And I know that if I tap into you. I can find

it and I can sustain. I can sustain what I'm

going through in that time. So I think that's

the best of circumstantial switch that we should

tap into that sets us apart from from the world.

Sure. Yeah, I think I think I agree completely.

I think instead of ignoring the troubles or I

think we should we should embrace them. I think

the Bible. calls us to be joyful in your trials

and tribulations, right? Rejoice when bad things

happen to you, basically. I think part of that,

I believe, is because... when we can strip away

the outer layer of happiness, the veneer of happiness,

and trials and tribulations and bad stuff happening

to us will make us less happy. It will tear away

that veneer of happiness. And I think when we

do that... I think it's part of God's plan for

us to understand and experience true joy, right?

Where the human feeling of happiness that, you

know, sometimes we have, which is great when

we have it. But when that is taken away, then

what we have left is the joy that God has gifted

us. you know, with the happiness away, we can

spend time in the joy part. We can experience

and understand more of what it means to be part

of that joyful community. And apart from, you

know, our own good feelings, right? I mean, to

experience God's blessing and love through trials

and tribulations. is a blessing. Sure. Right.

Yeah. And and so there is good in that. And I

think that good is being experienced, being bathed

in joy. Sure. Yeah. And relying on that as opposed

to, you know, feelings of happiness, which can

be elusive. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I

want us to sort of end on a practical note as

we think about like what joy is, as we sort of

talked about it. So then like Two questions,

I guess one is like, how do we cultivate joy?

And the other is like, so what does that like

look like? How do you know that you're like cultivating

and leaning into a sense of joy? Well, scripture

kind of goes like, you know, I mentioned this

in the previous this one as well, where it's

like, oh, we're supposed to rejoice always. And

then whenever we do pray and like give up our

prayers and petitions, we're supposed to bring

it with gratitude, with thanksgiving. And at

first, I never like, I kind of would ignore that

part about Thanksgiving because I'm like, I'm

not really grateful right now. Sure. So, Lord,

yeah, you're going to have to fix this mess.

Right. But once I started like. trying to practice

that at work or at home or with anything. Like,

imagine like waking up at like 6 a .m. to the

kids yelling, I don't know, baby shark, all the

time for like 15 minutes straight. It's hard

to be grateful when you're like, no, I want a

little more sleep. But at that moment, I'm like,

you know what, I'm actually glad that I'm surrounded

by kids because they're so joyful and like happy

and innocent. And this is like the most beautiful

time for the family as well, because that's like

that period that all the family like enjoys that

age. Sure. And so I'm like, OK, Lord, I'm actually

really grateful that I got to experience this

in a different way. Like I'm not part of that

family, but I'm grateful that I get to see their

happiness together. Yeah. Yeah. And then even

at work when I'm like struggling with like a

problem has come up, customers come something

saying something and I'm like, oh no, what do

I do? And I'm like, you know what Lord, I'm happy

that I have this problem and I'm going to be

able to get through it because you're giving

me the wisdom, you're giving me the strength.

And so once I started practicing that great gratitude,

I felt like a shift in the way that I was joyful

at work or joyful at home or any other circumstance.

And everybody is like, people like outsiders

would be like, oh, you're always so happy. Like

what's going on? And I'm like, that's Jesus.

Jesus did that. That's not me. I think joy is

a gift that's promised us from God. So I think

a simple answer is we can ask for it. Sure. And

and that's, you know, it's promised us to have

that sense of joy in our life. But I think there

is also a part for us to play. I think we like

a lot of other things that we've talked about

before. It is it's also a skill or an attribute

that needs to be developed within us. So we so

that so there needs to be like an intentional

effort to to. to grow that sense of joy in us

so they become a more prominent part of who we

are and our characters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for

sure. Maybe this is maybe a bit of a formula,

but just going back to Philippians four, starting

at verse four, it says, rejoice in the Lord always.

I will say again, rejoice. Let your gentleness

be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be

anxious about anything. But in every situation,

by prayer and petition with thanksgiving, present

your request to God. And the peace of God which

transcends all understanding will guard your

heart and your mind. So the call is to rejoice,

to be joyful. I think the way that's shown to

the larger surroundings is by being gentle, making

sure that's evidence. and to be anxious about

nothing. You're putting your cares, carrying

your cares to God. So it's the reality that it's

not that things are going to be smooth, but it's

that you know that when things get rocky, that

you have a shelter. You have someone that's going

to be there for you in Christ. And then also

just like putting that on. So like, yeah, when

things get messy. You know who to turn to. You

know that you can you can pray to you can pray

to Christ. You can and you can bring those requests

to God and God will will take care of those things.

And I think that's the perspective shift that

we need to have, because there's going to be

things that are really challenging, like there's

going to be things that we're not going to be

able to turn around and to look at in a positive

light in our lives. I think about the horrible

abuses that people face. Yeah. What what is the

how do I turn that around and say, God? This

is why like there's there's not going to be all

those those opportunities for us to be able to

turn those things around. But even in those those

terrible circumstances, we know that we have

someone to turn to, right? Who promises to fill

our cup, who promises to protect us? Because

at the end, it's it's saying that God will. guard

your heart and your mind. Right. And that protection

is something that is inexplainable. And I think

that's why when when Christians truly experience

joy, it doesn't make sense. Right. Doesn't make

sense when you see people going through terrible

things and you see them with this different perspective,

not that they're happy and jumping around and

being like, yay, I had this persecution today.

Like, that's not I don't think that's what like

reality. That's not what people are doing. Yeah.

But that perspective shift is just knowing of

the tomorrow, knowing of the savior of that that

Advent experience, I think is is different. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe that's the formula. Maybe. Maybe.

Yeah. I feel like it's a good start. Trust the

trusted source was from Paul. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that connecting it back to this season

of Advent, right, that we get joy through Christ

and and as we sort of said before, through Christ

in spending time with God, but also through Christ

in the community of Christ in the church and

spending time with other believers. Right. That.

Yeah. Joy. is a personal experience, but it's

cultivated communally and in the supporting of

one another and getting through all of life.

I also I would also say just to kind of end things

off in my own thinking is that joy is very evangelical.

It's something that God has gifted the world.

The coming of Jesus, joy to the world, the Lord

has come. It is a present, it is a gift, not

just for Christians. It is a gift to the world.

It's meant to heal the world. I mean, God has

given us that gift in the world, that gift in

Christ. And I think we as Christians are meant

to go out into the world and extend that joy

anywhere and everywhere that we go. Not just

being happy or being unexplainably, you know,

happy or joyful. And people looking at us weird.

You're a little obnoxious right now. What's that

guy on? And we say, Jesus! But to bring joy into

the world is more practical, like you were saying.

It is helping to respond to the needs of those

in the community that are going without. Bringing

joy to the world is helping to feed hungry families.

It's helping to house homeless people. It's bringing

services or making services available to those

who are going through mental health issues, you

know, it's it's it is being that that bridge

to responding to some of the, you know, kind

of the physical or earthly needs that often get

in the way for people to understand who God is

in their life. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Like it

goes back to the angels who visited the shepherd

said that they've come to bring you good news

of great joy for all people. We all get it. You

get some joy, and you get some joy, and you get

some joy. Like Oprah? Yeah. You just all get

it. I was having her Oprah moment. Yeah. I get

a check under my chair. Do I get a car? No, no

car. Unfortunately not. But the good news is

you don't need a car to be filled with joy. Amen.

Although a car would help. Destroying everything

we've talked about in the last half hour. Joy.

Joy. We all get that. Yeah. Thank you so much,

folks. It's a very joyful conversation, but also

I think a really helpful sort of angle to take

on this, right? That joy is contentment, joy

is this positive feeling that we feel, but it's

also something deeper and it's also something

that sustains us, right? Through all of the ups

and downs and who knows what of life. Yeah. Thank

you for tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity

Talks. I hope that wherever you are, you can

find some spaces of joy, whether you are cultivating

that for yourself or cultivating it in a sense

of community. May you have a very joyful Christmas

season and we'll see you again next week.