Why Is the Bible So Hard to Understand? (And How to Actually Get It) | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana.

I'm Elizabeth. I'm a Marvel. And today we are

continuing our journey in a series called This

Is The Way, where we're learning about what it

means to follow Jesus and how some of these different

spiritual practices that we have, like prayer

and Bible reading and fasting and worshiping

together, all help us to become more like Jesus

and to learn to love Jesus more. And today we

are talking about... the Bible, which is, I think,

a really important part of our faith. Obviously,

it's sort of the basis of our faith, but it can

also be a really confusing part of our faith

at different moments. And so I'm excited to sort

of unpack that with all of you and see, yeah,

how has the Bible informed our lives and how

can we work through it together? So as we get

started here, the first question that I just

want to have is like, what has been your experience

with the Bible? How has it been sort of part

of your spiritual life? Do you want to start

us off a model? Sure. You know, it's been it

hasn't been as big of a part because I've only

been doing this for about a year. But I definitely

it's definitely interesting when it's. when like

when rob does like a sermon series or so like

the seven letters to the church or when we did

the sermon on the mount series because i'm able

to sort of like read it before and sort of get

in that headspace or just sort of be able to

try to at least have a view or a theory of what

what's actually happening sure and uh but i mean

the bible it's it's definitely an important piece

of uh of of being a christian you know and i

actually wrote it down that when it comes to

the the uh like the words of the bible you know

or whenever you're reading from the bible um

you should be looking for it to be an answer

a reminder a comfort or a message okay you know

and there's there's no empty words in the bible

there's not You know, there's no filler. There's

no nothing. You know, there's everything is meant

to be there. Sure. And I mean, there's times

where you just like you're reading through it

and you're like, I don't get it. For sure. You

don't have much of a reaction. And then other

times it really hits you, you know. And I mean,

sometimes that's how God communicates, you know,

open up to this scripture or some, you know,

or someone brings up. you know, Bible verse on

your Facebook feed and you're like, wow, I really

needed to hear this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I, I resonate with that. There are definitely

moments where it just feels like, okay, I'm doing

this like as a faithful practice and following

God, but it doesn't feel super like deeply meaningful.

But then there are other moments where it's like,

wow, this feels like life changing in some ways.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What about for you, Elizabeth?

How's reading the Bible been sort of part of

your life? It's been part of my daily life because

it's the Word of God, and it was written by inspiration

through other people in the Bible. So it's the

anchor to my faith, and it's like the compass

that directs our path. So it's a good way. To

get closer to God through reading the Word of

God. Okay, yeah. And so what has the practice

of reading the Bible looked like in your life?

Is that something that you do really regularly,

or is it something that you find hard to do at

times? I do it regularly, to be sincere, because

it's been part of my life. It's like a comforting

book that I read daily. Okay. And sometimes even

if I wake up in the morning and I can't go through

the whole chapter or some verses that I really

want, then later in the day, I will still go

back and read it. Yeah. So it's a really strong

central sort of part of your faith. That's awesome.

Yeah. What about for you, Jordana? Oh, I'll say

that. I think it used to be a very strong central

part of my faith. I think more growing up, mostly

in my teenage years where I would reach for it

very often and read through and, you know, go

through the letters of Paul and the gospels and

things like that. I think. More recently, I've

been less consistent. Sure. You know, there have

been times of frustration and I'll go back and

then I'll stop and I'll go back and then I'll

stop this constant cycle of beginning again that

I've... I need to work on. And so it's nice to

do the series, but certainly I think back to

those times when I was very consistent and reading

and memorizing and, you know, as very formative

and grounding and just God's grace, because that

when you do that, it ends up carrying you through

tough times. You know, you rep, you're able to

recall passages that can be comforting, or you

can recall passages where you reach for, God's

presence. And, um, I will say that, you know,

I should get back to that. Sure. Sure. Yeah.

I think it's hard, like just in different seasons

of our lives where there are different things

happening, it can be hard to like make that space.

Yes, for sure. For sure. Even though we know

that it's good for us, even though we know that

it will bring us joy and comfort and all these

things, making that space is hard. Yes, it is

for sure. For sure. Um, So when we think about

the Bible, I think you had just told us a little

bit about going to buy a Bible. Yes, yes. Do

you want to just share what that was like? Well,

when I first started thinking about being serious

with Christianity and went to go buy a Bible,

and it's like, you know, I thought, okay, there's

like one version. Is it? You know, just like,

you know, maybe like the King's James version.

You know, that's what everybody knows, right?

Sure. I go, and then there's like six or seven

or eight different Bibles. I'm like. uh which

do i choose yes yeah and then and then online

people will be like debating oh don't use this

version don't use that version only go with this

version yes or when you're doing or when you're

reading go through this version when you're getting

serious going in this version and this is like

yes you know it's like You know, it becomes almost

like a supermarket where you can't, you know,

where it's like, you know, you, you know, you

think you go for one thing and you can get confused

by all the different versions. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

So there is this, this different translations

is one of the things that makes it hard for us

to read the Bible, hard to understand what it

is. And so I think before we go any further,

we should maybe spend some time on that. Like

what, what is the Bible and how do we read? it.

Yeah, Elizabeth, when you think about what is

the Bible, what would you sort of say? To me,

I would say the Bible introduces us to the full

66 books of the Bible according to the description

within. In Old Testament, we have 39 while in

the New Testament we have 27 books. So, and,

excuse me, it is written in a chronological order,

according to the inspiration that was given to

those individuals that wrote the Bible. Okay.

Yeah. So it's this whole collection. I think

the first part that's important there is that

it's 66 books, that it is one book bound together,

but it is actually, 66 different scrolls. We

call them books, but they were originally printed

as a bunch of different scrolls. Right. And so

they're each coming from a slightly different

perspective, each telling a different piece of

the story. And so if you just pick up your Bible

and start reading it at Genesis and try to read

it all the way through, you can do that. But

you're going to find that like. Some of the pieces

don't make sense without some of the other pieces,

I think. And some pieces are telling you the

same story in two different ways. And, you know,

you actually end up having to navigate how that

story is being told in very different ways at

different times. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm just

thinking of the four Gospels, right? You know,

as the most. obvious example of what's happening

there with Jesus' life. It's not one biography.

It's four different early biographical writings,

first century biographical writings. So I would

say that having a sense that there are very different

times being in context. ways of telling narratives

and different genres in there all come into play

in some of the challenges of reading the Bible.

For sure. And at the same time, recognizing there's

a coherence to it. It has a beginning. It has

an end. There's a sense of God constantly drawing

humans to himself over time in different ways,

in different cultures, culminating in Jesus.

And so there is that overall coherence, even

as... um there's such a difference as well yeah

yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah yeah i think

like one of the things that christian dd johnson

who gave our sermon at trinity today talked about

was like the importance of understanding like

the genre yeah that that you're looking at right

that like some of these things are biography

some of these things are history some of these

things are poetry and if we try to read the poetry

as if it is a historical narrative we're going

to get really confused and if we try to read

the story the letters of Paul as if they were

poetry, we're also going to get really confused,

right? Like, so understanding some of those differences.

I will also say that what makes it challenging

is sometimes those genres are not as clear cut.

Sure. Like, you know, Psalms is poetry predominantly

and prophecy and history. And you know what I

mean? Genres are nice to get a sense in a very

broad way of what's happening. And then they

get muddied very fast. Sure. And so, yeah, so

to actually figure out what's going on and how

people are speaking in that moment or how they

are writing in that moment is, it can be a challenge.

Yeah. Yeah. And I know one resource that several

of us have sort of mentioned is the Bible Project

is like one way that it's this whole website

that has a whole bunch of videos and podcasts

and different blogs and things that help us figure

out, OK, what is it that we're reading? Where

does it fit into the story of Scripture? All

of that is really helpful in. And I've used the

Bible Project quite a bit to get a sense of the

overviews of each book are really well explained.

The thematic videos are really well done. And

so I've used it a lot for understanding what's

happening. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So then when

you think about how do we read the Bible, what

would you sort of say in terms of, yeah, like

strategies or just like ways and practices? Being

a part of a life group, especially for our church

with the sermon questions, is a great way because

there's always at least one passage of the Bible

that's being highlighted and then questions on

it. And I think just being involved with people

that you can be like, I didn't really get this

or what do you think this means? I think that's

one way as well. Yeah, I mean, I think that's

probably one of the best ways I've seen it, you

know. Or sometimes if you even just like other

people might have a teaching series on YouTube

or so where they'll go through a certain book

of the Bible and they'll say, you know, how this

relates to our modern day. Sure. Because one

of the biggest challenge is. It's context. Sure.

Because, you know, like, you know, it's just

like if you wrote a book a hundred years ago,

it wouldn't read the same as something today.

Right. And this is like, you know, a couple thousand,

sometimes like 5 ,000 years ago. And then when

you add in the fact that you're trying to translate

words as accurate as possible, you know, it gets

challenging. For sure. For sure. Yeah. So having

some like wise teachers and having a community

of people to read together. But I think understanding

that the intention is always good. Intention

is to understand God's word. Right. That's the

that's the key, because there's a lot, of course,

for people that are against Christianity. They

you know, they always say, oh, you know, like

there's there's so many changes. It's inconsistent.

There's things that have been taken out. There's

been. you know different versions and all this

kind of stuff but you got to look at the heart

and the intention sure i gotta believe that people

that are that are you know doing even different

versions of the bible or even the idea of translating

the bible into different languages and dialects

you know it comes from a good place it comes

from the idea of spreading the word and spreading

the gospel sure yeah yeah yeah What about you?

How would you talk about, like, what are different

ways of reading the Bible that you found helpful?

I've read the Bible through devotional reading.

This is when I read a passage of the scripture

and meditating on what God is saying to me. The

second one is analytical Bible reading. This

is reading for someone or Bible study. focusing

on religious instruction and moral disclosure.

Okay, so reading it devotionally, like reading

it to sort of apply it to your own life, and

then reading it homiletically, like as a way

of trying to help other people understand it.

Yeah, okay. And then the academic part of it

is about learning more about the narrative part

of the Bible. Then the chronological reading

of the Bible is in order that invent and actually

historically. Okay. And then the gospel immersion

reading through the gospel and acts multiple

times to understand the life of Jesus. And theological

and social historical examining the text. through

its original uh contents auto intense and cultural

background okay so then like there's lots of

different ways we can read the bible so like

how do you think we like how do you learn to

do some of these different things like are these

all things that you practice Yeah, because I

went to Bible college. Okay. So somebody taught

you about these different methods. Yeah. I see.

I see. Yeah. But I think even for those of us,

you know, if we don't go to Bible school or if

we don't, you know, have these different things,

I think starting by asking, you know, what am

I hoping to get out of this? What is the way

that I'm reading this? Am I reading it for information?

Am I reading it? To grow closer to God? Am I

reading it because I need to teach somebody else

about it? Like these different methods. Before

I went to Bible school, I've been reading Bible.

But sometimes I struggle with it because, you

know, you're reading certain chapter, but the

understanding is not there. You pray to God and

Holy Spirit for. you know, and understanding.

So I always, then I, you know, I research a lot

about when I am reading certain chapter, then

I go and research. So to get full knowledge of

what I'm reading. Bible has been, you know, part

of my life, but sometimes you still, reading

certain chapter and you struggle with it you

know so everybody is not perfect you know we

grow daily day by day so that's it about the

bible yeah yeah yeah yeah being able to have

some of those resources and knowing that even

just knowing it's okay it's normal to be confused

or just struggle through it yeah yeah what about

for you jordana i think the times that i've enjoyed

the Bible most is when I've had the time to read

longer passages. I think what frustrates me is

when you don't have the time and you're reading

shorter ones and then they get disconnected from

each other. And for me, that kind of reading

doesn't work very well. I tend to go, I'm at,

I don't know, chapter five and I've forgotten

what chapter one's about. And it just feels these,

even though you're trying to be consistent with

it, the narrative flow and structure and the

things that bring meaning. through the way the

story is told, it gets lost, I think, for me

in those smaller passages. And those are times

when I've been most frustrated and inconsistent,

I think, when I've done it piecemeal, when I've

had the time to sit and read longer passages

or read a book or read, you know, those are the

times when I've gotten, have got the most out

of it or felt that I'm encountering the story

more fully. And so that, I think it's personal.

Some people really like those small passages

and allow it lets you meditate in those moments.

I have had that where I've begun to read a chapter

and then I've been arrested by something small

and I've had to just stop and pray or listen

more and focus on it. But it's that ability to

go through that has been most helpful for me.

Yeah. Yeah. And that makes me think like often

we think about practices like, you know, prayer

and scripture reading and we say, OK, I need

to set aside. five minutes or 10 minutes every

day to do it. And, and yeah, sure. Do that. If

that works for you, that's like really great.

I would definitely encourage that. But I think

there's also something to be said about, okay,

maybe once a week, maybe once a month, I set

aside a chunk of hours to sort of be like, okay,

I'm just going to read through the gospel of

Matthew, or I'm just going to read through this,

the letter of Romans or whatever it is. Right.

And to sort of get that arc that you can't get

if you're reading it like a few verses at a time,

which I know we're, I'm jumping way ahead, but,

uh, you know, it's like, I think if you, you

know, to book up, uh, to block out that time,

you know, I guess if you're trying to keep the

Sabbath or like trying to disconnect from everything,

that's the good time to. For sure. Because I

was just going to say, like, Jordan, how long

does it take to read those longer passages, you

know? It depends on the book. Like, if it's one

of the letters of Paul, which are four or five

or six chapters, it's only 45 minutes, you know?

Like, it's one hour. Even when you say only 45

minutes, people are just like, I don't even want,

I maybe have five minutes. True, true. I mean,

so that is something that I can't do every, I

shouldn't say can't, like, honestly, but. It's

more challenging. It's when you're reading something

that's 30, 40, 50 chapters long. Right, yes.

Maybe you can't sit down and read the whole book

of Genesis in one sitting. Yeah, all at once.

But Genesis is almost easier to do because there's

so many stories. Sure, sure. Leviticus, definitely

not. Yeah, definitely not. And then even with

that, it's like, if you're reading it, are you

really absorbing it? Or are you reading it like...

Well, you're not reading it just once, right?

So at that time, you might read it once. But

because you've got a sense of structure, narrative,

and flow, as you reread things... I'm a literature

student, right? So read one. And there's no such

thing as reading one. It's like all reading is

rereading. And then you read for more detail

the next time. You don't want to treat it like

a book report. You know, read this chapter and

then write a little blurb, you know, like afterwards.

But you definitely get the details and things

you miss the first time come alive more when

you've read it more than once. Right. And so

we are talking about a book that we are. hopefully

reading more than once. Sure. And I think reading

it prayerfully and reading it. So you talked

about, you know, not right, not doing it like

a book report where you're like making notes

and things, but sometimes for some people, myself

included, making notes isn't for a book report.

It's for me. I understand it better when I can

make a note in the margin or in a journal or

whatever it is. Right. I mean, going back to

rereading it, I think sometimes you maybe get

it at certain points in your life or stages in

your life, because I guess, I think sometimes

maybe it's like there's parts of the Bible that

are really effective, like when you're a young

single person and then when you're a parent and

then maybe when you're in your later years in

life, you know. Yeah. And then, you know, you

still read it, but it's like it really hits differently.

Sure. And like the same passage can mean something

different to me today than it meant to me five

years ago than it will mean to me five years

from now. Yeah. Yeah. Even when I listen to Rob

Salmon, I make a note. And when I go home, maybe

it might be later in the evening before I go

to bed. I still watch online, you know, just

to, you know, assimilate everything that he said

during the service. Yeah. yeah yeah for sure

so when you think about like some of the challenges

of reading the bibles we've talked about you

know making time for it but i think you also

a novel made reference to like the context of

the bible it can be really hard to understand

sometimes yeah um yeah do we have any tips or

ideas for like yeah how how do we deal with that

challenge of the Bible? I know Elizabeth, you

talked about, you know, leaning, going to Bible

school, obviously super helpful, but even just,

you know, talking to one another, talking to

priests or to Bible scholars and things like

that, or finding them on the internet. The most

challenging part of reading the Bible is like,

translating from, you know, like Hebrew, because

Bible is written in so many languages, Hebrew,

Aramaic, Greek, and there are distant cultures.

So this creates a distant distraction for me,

you know, to make it... difficult to understand

the original context requiring serious study

you know because sometimes i stay in the in the

library for three to four hours okay well when

i really want to dig in you know sure to study

the bible and maybe if it might just be sat in

the chapter but i will search research go back

and forth you know searching until I'm fully

filled and understand what I'm reading. Sure.

Sure. Yeah. A lot of commitment. I think in a

way, sometimes the best is when it's you, you

have long form content on like even just a couple

of lines or a passage in the Bible. So you can

really, really get the full idea or context or

just like different clips. Like, for example,

like one of the ones that I was thinking about

is, When Jesus dies on the cross, he says, it

is done. Yeah. Or it is finished. Yeah. And apparently

in the original, what he said, he said one, I

think he said one word. Yeah. That has three

different contexts in that one word. Right. You

know, like, or like in, I think one was to do

with debt. One was to do with like. like serving

your time as like in, uh, like if you go to prison

and then the other is like conquering. Okay.

All in one word. Right. You know, so, you know,

just trying to like interpretation. Exactly.

So I just, I think sometimes, you know, even

just like, you know, like whether, even if you're

not going to Trinity church, but you're going

to another church, just, you know, focusing on,

you know, are the pastors talking about, one

section and how deep depth are they going and

sure you know and again like even stuff like

with the bible project you know and like again

again it's just trying to understand the context

and i think as well sometimes like even if you

read a section when you finish it can you look

go back and say what was the section about sure

and your interpretation of it sure sure yeah

yeah oh Consistency. But I want to speak a little

bit more as you were talking about why there

is that struggle with consistency. Sure. And

that sense of, you know, you begin really well,

you go on a few days, maybe in a few weeks, and

then there's a resistance that builds up. Sure.

A sense of not wanting to sit in some of the

difficult passages. And I think very often the

real battle tends to be. that space where you

begin to not want to sit in that space. It's

an internal battle very often. You know, you

can fill that space up then very easily by saying,

I have 25 ,000 things to do, right? But it's

that inability to sit in that silence and that

space and ask what it is you are expecting, where

maybe have your expectations fallen, and what

are you hoping? for in the time where you sit

with the word and i and i'm reflecting on how

much i sometimes avoid that space sure after

a while when a bit of fatigue comes in and what

it might mean to be able to say it's okay to

feel that and at the same time to recognize that

you know there are all kinds of pressures and

i have to say the battle is spiritual right i

do want to say that We are speaking as if it's

only happening at the sort of horizontal level

where it's time and space and consistency. But

I know there is a spiritual element to this where

I think we can be worn down and not feel that

God's working fast enough or what's happened,

you know, or the confusion of the Bible makes

it difficult to work and sit in those. that space

of mystery, let the spirit work. Yeah. That can

be hard. For sure. So I do want to, so that struggle

and the internal reflection may, may help me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would, I wanted to just give

voice to some of that internal struggle. For

sure. Yeah. And we live in a distracting world

anyways. It's a very go, go, go world. I mean,

even when, even when you think of like what work

culture is, right. You know, it's, you know you're

putting plenty of hours and then you you're you're

spending hours in traffic and then you yeah and

then if you have a family well then you know

you're you're trying to take the kids this place

in that place and yeah you know and sometimes

you just don't you want to zone out and not think

about the last thing you want to think about

is the bible sure but i mean even though we should

you know yeah but it's uh you know Yeah, there's

a lot competing for our attention. But yeah,

I mean, I think, Jordana, I think you probably

represent a lot of modern Christians. We want

to be doing better with reading the Bible and

everything like that. But it's, you know, you

got to fight to make that time and sit in there

and, you know. Even if it is five minutes or

whatever. Sure. Yeah. I think the other piece

that I want to sort of say in all this is we

spent quite a bit of time talking about, you

know, understanding the Bible and understanding

the context of what is it and how do we read

these different genres and things. And I think

that is all really valuable work. I think we

also need to accept the mystery of the spirit

of God in the text and in our. in amongst us

right so there are going to be things about the

bible that we just won't understand and there

are going to be things about the bible that like

god will work through us even if we never understand

the context or even if we don't go to bible school

or if we don't do this scholarly work like god

is still speaking and yeah and i think uh kristen

spoke about it today that approaching it with

humility right because if you think you're going

to go there and master that text in that moment

it's always going to speak to you in exactly

that the way you need yeah you're going to get

frustrated over time for sure right so that space

of humility where you let the text work on you

yeah um It takes patience and it takes trust.

For sure. For sure, yeah. So thank you so much,

folks. Just as we end, there's a few resources

that I just want to mention. So as we said, the

Bible Project is a really great resource. Amavu,

you shared that you have a Bible app on your

phone. That's a really great resource. There

are audio Bible apps and websites as well. So

if you're someone who doesn't like reading, but

you'd rather listen while you're out for a run

or while you're driving, whatever, listening

to the Bible. And then taking some time to really

understand the... the narrative of the Bible.

Like Jordana had mentioned earlier this week,

this idea of sometimes we just need to go back

to the children's Bible so that we can get the

whole story, get the whole arc and understand

how all the pieces fit together. And I think

that's, that's a really insightful take. So yeah,

hopefully some of those resources are helpful

to you as our listeners, as you continue in your

journey of scripture, whether that is something

that is brand new to you or something you've

been doing for a really long time. And we will

see you again next week.