The Spiritual Practice Most Christians Ignore | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Jordana.

I'm Amal. Thank you. And we are here to continue

talking about our series called This is the Way,

where we're learning about what it means to follow

the way of Jesus, and specifically what are some

of the spiritual practices, what are some of

the habits, the things that we can do that help

us as we grow more in our faith. And so we started

by talking about the practice of prayer. And

then last week we talked about the practice of

scripture reading. Today we're moving into a

practice that's maybe a little bit less known,

a little bit less common, and that is the practice

of solitude. Solitude, I don't know. So when

I hear the word solitude, I think fortress of

solitude. And maybe this is not quite what we're

going for here. But yeah, I don't know. We're

going to talk about solitude as a spiritual practice.

What does that even mean? So I think that's probably

a good place to start. When you think about solitude

as a spiritual practice, like what what does

that mean to you? What does you think that that

looks like? Yeah. Do you want to start us off,

Hugh? Sure. Well, I think it's important to differentiate

solitude from aloneness and from loneliness.

OK. Loneliness is a time of struggle and pain.

Aloneness can be a separation from the noise

of the world but you're alone but you can still

be on your device and you can still be connected

to the world. Solitude is more of a total separation

from the world for a time and it's not painful

like loneliness, but it's a time of healing and

it's a time of trying to get close to God and

allowing God to enter into your soul. And for

that we need silence because God whispers in

the silence. So that's what solitude is in terms

of between loneliness and aloneness. Yeah, I

think that's a really helpful distinction. Yeah,

you want to add anything to that? Yeah, it's

deliberately quiet time basically trying to Get

rid of all the distractions whether it's phone

or people or so I've heard you know like of like

like long retreats and stuff like like silent

retreats or yeah, or if you go walk alone in

nature, so right I'm not sure exactly with how

it works daily. Sure, that's fair. But I know,

Hugh, you were saying about how you do sort of

daily solitude, right? Or I do. How does that

work? I try to do it daily. Well, it's there's

a number of aspects to it. One is I think you

the physical space is important. So like a comfortable

chair, a comfortable a place away from distractions,

away from the phone, away from the noise in the

house. I have an office in my basement, which

is quite quiet. And so that's my space for solitude.

And then for me, I do some breathing exercises

just to get me into the solitude. And a lot of

people will do a variety of things with the time.

It can be 10 minutes, it can be half an hour,

it can be longer if you have the time. But the

importance of solitude is to have a space, a

physical space, but then you enter into an emotional

and a spiritual space where you're receptive

to God. And that takes a bit of a focus. And

for me, I found that writing is a focus. So I

write... a minimum of three pages a day. And

it doesn't and it's just writing. It's a dialogue

with God. I write about I write to Jesus. I say,

Dear Jesus, good morning. These are my thoughts

today. These are my struggles. These are my joys.

These are the things the people that are important

in my life. These are the people I want to pray

for. And then there comes a time in those three

pages where I shut up and say, OK, Jesus, tell

me what you think about all these things. And

then I try to hear what he's saying. And I write

that as well. OK. And so that for me is important

because writing for me helps me to focus. Sure.

Other people focus in other ways. They may have

a quiet music in the background. they may have

a good breeding exercise and they may have a

mantra which is many Christians have the mantra

that says Jesus and they repeat Jesus in Jesus

because the thing that happens when you're in

solitude is that the mind tries to wander. And

it's really hard to hold it. It's like ships

on the river, you know? The ship goes by and,

you know, what's my bank account saying today?

What am I going to do at work tomorrow? And all

of these things. And it's okay. That's part of

being human. And you let those ships... pot and

pass because you don't jump aboard any of them.

The tendency is to jump aboard. That's right.

And and then you you keep you keep still. You're

still in the solitude. And God does whisper and

does come through. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

What about for you, Jordan? Would you? Yeah,

I was I mean, I was just thinking of the sort

of trajectory of the series. Right. We talked

about prayer and we talked about. Bible reading

and those feel very active. You do need solitude.

Prayer can be both alone and with people. And

so, you know, when you are praying alone, you

are in that space of solitude and you are creating

it. But it is very active. I think of solitude

as moving through that space where. you begin

to reflect or slow down. And as you go through

many of the things you're going through, maybe

it begins to be active, but it moves into a space

of quieter, of stillness, of trust that builds

up, of receptiveness. And so I do think that

the two are related, but not distinct. It can

be quite an active, strenuous thing. Whereas

the reflection and the stillness that comes,

I think, in those times when that reflection

leads. to you quieting down every once in a while

allows for a peace, I think, and a groundedness

that you can let go and be just in the presence

of God rather than. Being very active with all

the concerns of life. Yeah So yeah, I was just

trying to think through how we move from this

very active space into the more receptors Receptive

and still space of solitude. Yeah. Yeah, I think

it allows that That goes well with the practice

that you were describing you of like starting

out by like you writing out lots of thoughts

because sometimes I think if we Try to start

with just the receptivity our brain gets in the

way because you're like I need to get all of

these things out So starting by writing out all

of the things that you need to get out of your

brain, then allows you to enter into a space

where you're saying, OK, I've put it all on the

table. Now, like, what does the spirit of Christ

have to say to me? Yes, that's all it allows.

That it allows that surrender, which is really

nice. That's, you know. Yeah, I think so. You

said when you were talking to you that like.

In talking about the difference between solitude

and like loneliness, solitude is not painful.

It should be a thing that's healing. I think

it's important to clarify there that that doesn't

mean that solitude is not challenging. I think

it's still hard. It's just not painful in the

same way that loneliness is painful. Loneliness

is you long for connection. and you're denied

it. And it's a good longing. We're made to have

those connections with people. Solitude is not

that you're longing. In fact, you are actually

connecting. It's just that you're connecting

with God and you're creating spaces for that

spiritual connection. So it's a different thing

than loneliness. But it's still hard to do sometimes.

It's hard to do, yes. For sure. It is. That's

why it's called the practice. Yes, yes. We do

it slowly over time. We build up our tolerance

and our ability to do that well. It's definitely

a learning learned behavior. It's not like something

like you can you can get into the habit of praying

or reading scripture. So but but it almost feels

counterintuitive to counteractive to to be in

solitude, especially in our day and age, you

know, there's always something going on. You

know, whether you're watching something, listening

to something, people around, there's all there's

always distractions. There's always things to

keep your mind occupied. So to almost force yourself

to be like, I'm getting rid of that for even

five minutes. Yeah. You know, that's you. You

really have to learn how to do that. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. So you talked

about like what this looks like for you on it.

daily basis, but when we were talking before,

you also shared about this 10 -day silent retreat

that you were on. You want to tell us what that

experience was like for you? Yes. Again, it was

a challenge because it was a very busy time in

my life. I had three teenagers at home and a

busy career, but I felt that I needed to get

away. And so I went to Guelph to the Jesuit community

and took a 10 -day silent retreat. Now, the challenge

was the first three days. I thought I'd go crazy.

Sure. Because, you know, no phones are allowed

and nothing is allowed. You're by yourself. Yeah.

Basically. And completely silent. Completely

silent. So you're not even like talking to the

other folks who are there, really? No, you're

not allowed to. Even the meals are silent. Oh,

wow. So you don't say pass the butter, you know,

you just make a sign or, you know, somehow somebody

will will be sensitive to your need and pass

the butter. But so what happens, what I discovered

is that after the third day, I started to quiet

down and I started to to to to like myself a

little better. OK. And I discovered that solitude

Like is nourishment, like nourishment for the

mind is reading and education and so and nourishment

for your body is doing, eating good foods and

doing good exercise. Solitude is nourishment

for the soul and sometimes that's the last thing

that we think about it and is something that

we neglect. But God wants to nourish our souls

and God wants us to be happy and He wants us

to be peaceful and He wants to talk to us. But

we have to get rid of the noise of the world

so we can listen to His voice. So the last eight

days were tremendous. Sure. You just got to get

through the first three. Got through the first

three. Sometimes it takes people a day. Sometimes

it takes people five days, you know, depends.

Yeah. But it's yes, it's it's being alone and

and and and and then it becomes a real it's a

richness. There's a richness there that that's

that's hard to describe, but it. Here you are.

You know, it's like the song. You're with Jesus

who says, you're my brother and you're so close

to me, and yet I'm your King. But I am so, I

so love you. I'm such an expansive God that you

can't even begin to know me until you sit down

and say, come to me. And that's the richness.

Yeah, it's powerful. Mm -hmm. Yeah, it's really

powerful. So I think that Just like reflecting

on that experience and like what you're sharing.

I think there's there's hope and there's comfort

in knowing that like Yeah, that that solitude

can be a really nourishing thing but also there's

hope and there's encouragement and knowing that

the first three days can be really hard and so

when we start this practice whether we're starting

it as an intensive retreat or as a you know five

or ten minute daily practice like if it's hard

at first that's okay yeah yeah i wanted to just

bring in here something that i speak about with

my students yeah um at university where i'm when

i help doctoral writers and it's so hard to write

these long pieces of work that nobody's ever

written at that length before. And they talk

about how busy they are, or how much work there

is, or how many things they have to do, and therefore

the doctorate gets pushed aside. And we speak

about the distinction between external distractions,

and those are the external things that you have

to do, the teaching, the grading, the whatever,

the things. And with us, it's family life, it's

everything. But then when you have time and you

put it down and you sit down to write a doctorate

and then there are the internal distractions

the things where you don't feel productive or

the thoughts don't come or you know you're not

writing yeah and it feels like that is unproductive

time it feels and then it's very easy to reach

for the cell phone or reach for the email or

reach for the oh I'm not getting it done now

I'm gonna put it down and put it away yeah but

it's that internal distraction where you sit

in the space where when something is hard Right?

You allow that space for discomfort to be the

space you occupy for a while as you give time.

for those thoughts, those ideas to consolidate.

And it's so important, there's so many studies,

but they're so important to actually sit in that

space rather than reaching for things elsewhere.

And the point is not to just sit in the discomfort

all the time, it's to be able to allow that,

to get through that discomfort into the place

where you can write or where the thoughts can

come together. And so when it comes to writing

and writing that's difficult, you know, it's

important to be OK with the uncertainty and OK

with the discomfort of that silence and off the

space. And I think, you know, I think it's very

valid for what it might mean to create spaces

of solitude where it won't be easy for a while

or you will feel very unproductive or you'll

feel very like that's not giving you right away

the spiritual peace you had thought it would

give you. And that ability to say no, like as

all your thoughts and your life gets crowded

in, allow that space for reflection, but allow

that space for uncertainty and discomfort and

mystery as well. Because as the practice, as

you sort of... engage in the practice on an ongoing

basis, you'll find yourself slowly moving towards

that space where you can quieten down and reflect.

But there will be, and there's no rule as to

how long it'll take before you can actually move

there, that there will be that time of feeling

intensely uncomfortable, maybe, but to allow

it to happen, allow that process to take place.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's helpful to sort of

think through. I like the distinction between

internal and external distractions because I

think it's fair to say, like, I'm distracted.

But then you think about, OK, what am I distracted

by? And is this something that is actually imminent?

Or is this just a feeling, a thought, a thing

that I need to work through or that I need to

write out on paper so that it's out there? Right?

Yeah. Yeah. What about other challenges when

you think about our experiences of solitude so

we've talked about you know being distracted

by all the things happening in the world being

distracted even by our own minds um yeah what

else comes to mind when you think about what

makes it hard to practice solitude uh i think

part of it is just it's it's a weird feeling

when everything is silent when you're not listening

to anything when you're not watching something

yeah you know and it's just it's sort of like

again it's not I don't think we grew up in a

world where we had moments like this. I wonder,

is there a way to have this instilled in a young

age, especially nowadays where everything is

iPad this and YouTube and there's all these sort

of things to try to keep you distracted. It's

it's it's definitely one of those things where

I almost feel like people back like but prior

to the technology boom probably We're able to

practice that a lot easier, you know, but now

that's our but that's our challenge We have to

get back to that. Sure. Yeah sure. Mm -hmm Yeah,

and I think sort of on top of that the idea that

like it's not just that like It's not just the

you know, the science of like being glued to

technology It's like culture our culture actually

rewards us for always being on the go always

doing things for always like getting more input

and put getting Doing more output and like all

of those things when we are busy. We are like

quote -unquote successful. We're celebrated I

mean look at look at stuff like Shark Tanker,

right? You know, right? Yeah, the entrepreneur

that's always on the go that's putting in it

so many hours a week, they're rewarded. It makes

it like, oh, well, they really want to succeed.

That's how we measure success. You're right.

Yeah. Yeah. So it is just like a very countercultural

thing to be like, I'm going to step back from

that. And it can get scary to the extent that,

on the one hand, you feel like, as I said, you're

not being productive in that moment. But I think

the other thing is you're confronted with yourself.

And the things you've been putting away or off,

the things you've been doing wrong, like they

all come rushing to the fore, you know? And solitude

is that space where you're deliberately not distracted

from the things that you've been hiding from.

And that can be a place where it can, if you

allow it, be a place of confession. It can be

a place of repentance. It can be a place. But

these are. uncomfortable things for sure and

so there are those spaces where solitude will

you know as you said you it was after a few days

that you began to like yourself again that began

you know that got me thinking about what it might

mean to actually be in the space of solitude

where you are confronting all your own foibles

and limitations to get to the place where you

can trust God and love and know His love. But

yeah, you need to give that process some space

as well, but it won't be comfortable. No, that's

such a good point that as soon as we slow down

in our culture, because as you were saying earlier,

Kyla, we're so focused on doing than in solitude,

we have to be. The being takes precedence. And

it scares us. And it brings up all kinds of things.

It brings up our vulnerabilities. And the fact

that we're far from perfect. And when we're busy

doing, we don't think about that. Because we're

so busy in the world. But all of a sudden, you're

just being. And it's so important to be because...

When we relate to other people, people don't

always want us to do things for them. Sometimes

they just want us to be with them. And in solitude,

as we learn to be with Jesus, we also learn to

be with others. Sure. But the challenge is we

have to be with ourselves first, face those little

demons that you were talking about, Jordan. Yeah,

and I think like one thing that sort of came

to mind for me as we were like talking at this

idea of like facing ourselves and how Difficult

that can be sometimes I think That's for me.

That's part of the reason that it's important

to like pair Solitude with other spiritual practices.

Yeah, that like Jesus did not call us to live

in isolation all the time and so pairing it with

practices of community, with practices of confession,

with meeting with a pastor or a spiritual director

or a therapist or a life group, whoever it is

that you need to journey with you in this process

of confronting yourself and confronting whatever

it is that that solitude brings up in you, I

think is really, really important. Absolutely.

So then, if solitude is so hard, Why should we

do it? Yeah, it sounds like it's just a really

challenging thing. And we've said that it's nice

at the end. But like, what is good about it?

What gets us there, I guess? What do we find

at the end of this journey? It makes us more

whole. OK. And so as we become more whole, we

can extend that wholeness to others. OK. And

I think that's that's that's key. That's key

for me. Yeah. I'm just thinking that it creates

the space. Like you think of a Christian walk,

right? And there is, you know, it begins with

you knowing you need God. Yep. Right. And if

you're always doing, you're not ever entering

that space. Like sometimes something will whack

you on the head in and says, you know, stop.

You are out of control. You don't have control

on the situation. You need God. Yeah. But we...

Unless that happens and you're in a space where

that happens, we don't necessarily create spaces

for us to reflect. And so I would say solitude

makes you sort of structures in creating those

spaces of reflection, of trust, because ultimately

in those spaces of reflection, you're confronted

with yourself, but then you're confronted with

the fact that you need God and that He is there.

And if you're going to reach for that love on

an ongoing basis and ground yourself in the peace

that comes from Him, then you're going to have

to create those spaces where you allow yourself

that process. So, yeah, I would say that it matters

to just being someone who connects with God and

who creates space for his presence. Right. In

your life, yeah. And it's related to community,

because as we connect in solitude with God and

with ourselves, we then we're more and more prepared

to connect with others in community. Sure. And

community is important. Yeah. In the scripture,

Jesus is in community. He's in solitude, but

he's also in community. Right. There's a real.

link there. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I wonder if

we can say a little bit more about how that works,

because I think, yeah, like, like if you were

to elaborate on that, like what, how does solitude

prepare us to like, be in community more? Do

you think? Well, because, because we have, we

have a community basically as connection, as

connection to each other. It's learning to deeply

listen to each other. And that's what we do in

solitude. Jesus is teaching us to deeply listen

to Him and deeply listen to ourselves. And once

we're able to do that in solitude, it becomes

then... a little easier to do it in community

right okay so it's like exercising that that

listening muscle that's right yeah okay yeah

yeah i also wonder if there's part of it that

is our ability to when we've had a space for

us to like deal with whatever is happening inside

of us then we feel less need to like Insist on

that in other spaces. I think so. Yeah, I think

just that place of honesty before God and that

sense of grounding in his love and presence lets

you take down many of the barriers that we can

build up when connecting with others and so You

know, it really does begin with that grounding

in God because knowing that you're in that space

of acceptance and forgiveness and love allows

you to be less to lean into vulnerability a little

more. Sure. And that is so vital for healthy

connections. So, yeah, I'd say that. Very good.

That's good. And I think I think with solitude,

it's also your time that you can bring all your

troubles and problems to God and all your frustrations

and You can vent to God and God's just there

to listen. You're not gonna get any You're not

gonna get any response or like any sort of pushback

or negativity and it allows It allows you to

say how you really feel and sometimes confronting

yourself is also bringing up whatever darkness

is in in you that you don't that you obviously

try to resist in real life, and you're allowing

yourself to get it all out and free yourself

from that and then you can go ahead and deal

with the world. Yeah, I think there's like an

interplay there between the practice of solitude

and the practice of prayer. I think solitude

often begins with active prayer, where we are

saying, okay, I have to get all of this stuff

out. And like you said, whatever those emotions

are, God is like, bring it all. And then it moves

into a kind of listening prayer, where you said,

okay, God, here's all of the things. Now, what

are you going to do about it? Right. And sometimes

that is actually the question, God, what are

you going to do about it? And sometimes it's

more of, okay, so God, what do you have to say

about this? Right. Like there are different moods

that we can sort of bring to that. But yeah.

just laying it all out there. Okay, so then how

do we practice solitude? Like if you were to

think about practically, what does this look

like? How can we encourage people and help people

who are trying to figure out how to do this?

Like what, what would you sort of say about that?

So like, Hugh, when you think about your daily

practice of of solitude, like what are some like

really practical things that are helpful for

you as you think about that? Well, have a good

coffee ready. Okay. God likes coffee. And the

physical space, as I said earlier, is really

important. The separation from the noise in the

house or wherever you are. So a quiet place in

the house, wherever that quiet place is for you.

Sure. And then... Some people find it easier

to have some quiet music in the background. Sure.

It can be a monastic type of music, which is

very, very soothing. Yeah. Bulgarian chants,

for instance. And some people could put a candle,

you know, a lot of candle or breathing exercises

are also very helpful, you know. taking deep

breaths, counting to ten, and then inhaling and

exhaling, counting to ten, holding and counting

to ten, and you do three or five repetitions

of this, and it just calms you down, you know,

and makes you more receptive. So those are little

things that you can do to get you in that receptive

mode, because solitude is trying to get your

soul to be receptive. So those are the things

that I have found helpful over the years. For

sure, yeah. I will say that if, you know, a special

room or something is impossible, I mean, some

things like taking a walk, just anywhere where

you can disconnect from all the concerns and

allow yourself that space of reflection matters.

There's this amazing story that I remember from

years ago where John and Charles Wesley, like

their moms, A parent like they had a small house

growing up. They had so many kids. There was

no special place she could go to. But what she

would do was just put her apron over her head

and sit down by the table. But which they all

knew that when mom had her apron over her head,

she was praying. You have to be quiet. And that's

and I think what what that shows is, first of

all, that you don't you may not need to do it

alone. You can get someone around like there

are people around you who can. who know, like

who you share this with, right? Or you create

that space. For me, it's just going into my bedroom,

right? And praying for 10 minutes or whatever

it is. Yeah, just creating those moments of spaces

of intentionality and not just keeping to yourself

too. If you need others to know that that's what

you're doing and create that space for yourself,

you know, get them on board. And so sharing that,

I mean, we say this with students or graduates

too, like get your partner to, you know, take

the kids if you are having kids for the half

an hour that you need to just write. So get that

support around you as well. So those things can

help a lot. Big and small, do what... works for

you, but also don't necessarily only do it alone.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that's interesting. Solitude

as a practice that you do, you need a community

of support that allows you to do that. And this

is just something that occurred that, you know,

Jesus would have told people, don't follow me.

I'm going off to be alone, to pray. and I will

join you later, right? And so he would have had

to actually make that very clear to all his disciples

who are following him everywhere. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah. So for sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.

Anything you would add to that model? I guess

I guess I would say, especially because this

is kind of a new concept for me is treated like

treated like meditation, but with the intention

of listening to God and trying to you know empty

your your mind of the distractions and and I

think as well like with other forms of meditation

is important to that it's okay if you're if you

can't empty your mind right away or if you have

a hard time with it you know because again it's

a learned practice it's not something that is

instinctual so I think just I think if you just,

you know, even just carve out five minutes or

something and quiet, again, music is definitely

a good tool for that too, you know, but just,

you know, just try to carve out even a little

bit of time in a meditative space and try to

see what... but comes of it for sure for sure

yeah i think the other thing that comes to mind

to me like i want to go back a little bit to

what you said at the beginning about this idea

of ships passing by and not jumping on board

any of those thought boats or thought trains

um yeah and and one of the things that i find

helpful in that sometimes is having is you call

it like a mantra but having like a phrase or

something that you come back to and so it could

be as simple as just saying jesus and repeating

that either out loud or in your mind. A couple

of other ones that I sometimes find helpful is,

again, like words right from scripture. So things

like be still and know that I am God. Sometimes

I will just repeat that to myself over and over

and over again. Or there's this story in the

Old Testament where I think it's Samuel as a

child is at the temple. And what he's instructed

to say is like, speak, Lord, your servant is

listening. Right. And so just being able to say

that speak, Lord, I'm listening. Right. And just

opening that space and reminding yourself that

that's what's happening here. And actually inviting

God very intentionally into that as well. I mean,

I know sometimes if they're really tired and

I'm praying with the kids and, you know, it's

too much of an effort to. pray your own prayers,

we'll very quickly say things that we would like.

But then we end with Psalm 23. Right. That tends

to be the one that we say together. Yeah. And

it's just such a good reminder of saying he is

up. He's like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And so he

is a shepherd. And that that, again, has become

a kind of prayer we we say on an ongoing basis.

So that's good. Yeah. Well, I would say, you

know, in sort of in summary. because we've talked

about the challenges of solitude. Be kind to

yourself. For sure, for sure. Because so if you

can't do five minutes, you can't do five minutes.

Go back the next day, you know, the next day.

Yeah. Eventually it will happen. Yeah. And when

it happens, your soul will be nourished. For

sure. For sure. Yeah. Don't be impatient. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Just take some time. And when you

feel the impatience coming up with yourself,

like just like take a breath. move on like don't

get stuck in the impatience yeah yeah for sure

yeah well thank you so much folks i think this

has been a really helpful dive into a practice

that is maybe really new for a lot of people

and that is definitely really hard for a lot

of people um but yeah acknowledging the challenges

looking forward to the rewards and finding those

those practical small steps that we can take

to build up our ability to just sit in the presence

of God. Yeah and looking forward to the rest

of our series as we continue to build on some

different practices and how we can actually make

space to make our whole lives a way of following

Jesus together. Thank you for tuning in to this

week's episode of Trinity Talks. I hope you will

continue to join in as we continue these practices

together and that this week you're able to find

maybe even two minutes, five minutes to spend

some time alone in the presence of God and to

allow God to speak words of love and kindness

and generosity towards you.