Fasting Explained: Is It Really Worth It? | Trinity Talks Podcast

We are all here to continue talking about some

spiritual practices, some of those habits, those

things that we can do as we continue to follow

in the way of Jesus. And today we're talking

about the spiritual practice of fasting. And

fasting is, I think, a particularly interesting

practice because it's hard. It's something that's

really challenging that people don't really like

to do. But it also... Like sometimes it's not

super obvious, like why, why you would do it.

Like what, what is the benefit of being hungry?

Right. And how does that actually help us grow

in our spiritual life? So hopefully we can unpack

that a little bit in our conversation today.

But first, before we get into that, what is the

spiritual practice of fasting? Like if you were

to give a sort of basic definition, what, what

would you say that it is? Hugh? Well, I would

say that it's a temporary off -period abstaining

from food and sometimes even water. But by temporary,

I mean it could be for a couple of hours, it

could be a morning, it could be for a day. Some

people have fasted for a week, whereas Jesus

fasted for 40 days. So there are different kinds

of fast, different kinds of periods of fast.

Okay, yeah, but it's that temporary period going

with the food. Temporary period, yes. Yeah, that's

a really sort of basic, clear definition. What

would you add to that, Elizabeth? To me, the

spiritual practice of fasting is the willingness.

Temporary refraining from food or other necessities

like social media or other technologies in order

to focus on God cultivates self -discipline and

deepening in prayer, meditation, and scripture

reading. Right. It acts as a physical expression

of spiritual hunger. promoting humility, repentance,

depending or trusting in God. Okay. Yeah, so

there's a couple of things that you've sort of

added in there. So one is that you're not just

going without food, that you're adding some sort

of a spiritual practice into that. So you're

adding in prayer, you're adding in worship, a

focus on God, scripture reading, and that sort

of thing. And then the other piece is that fasting

like most specifically and technically is about

food. Usually that's the sort of traditional

understanding, but we can practice other kinds

of like abstinence that, that sometimes people

would call fasting. Right. So, you know, saying,

okay, I'm going to give up social media for a

week or for a month or however long, I'm just

not going to do that today. Or I'm going to give

up, you know, TV or give up. shopping or give

up i don't know whatever whatever kind of habit

the thing that fills your days that is maybe

not necessarily productive yeah um yeah okay

um yeah what about for you amav when you think

about like what is fasting uh well when i think

of fasting i think of it from the muslim perspective

um again i was born and raised in to islam and

muslim fasting is one of the five pillars of

islam it's one of those things where Any able

Muslim is supposed to fast. And there is a big

component of it, which is on the lack of food

and water. Basically, you have to finish eating

and drinking an hour before sunrise, and then

you can break your fast at sunset, at the sunset

prayers. Okay. There probably is a spiritual

component aside from... uh, empathy with those

who don't have food and, and like, and like being

humble and all that. I'm sure there's other sort

of like spiritual things, but I mean, I don't

even remember if I was ever told that I didn't

have an interest in that. I don't have any, any

more not being Muslim, but, uh, you know, it's

sort of, uh, You know, a lot of the things, it

sort of ended up being, well, you know, this

is what the Prophet Muhammad did, this is what

we have to do. Right, so it was like an instruction,

a thing that you were supposed to do as sort

of part of the faith and part of like emulating

your spiritual leaders and that sort of a thing.

Yes, and from what I'm understanding is that

Christian fasting is... is optional it's not

something you have to do right and it can be

done at any time sure this with muslim fasting

it's always the month in the month of ramadan

which uh which uh has already ended a couple

days ago right uh and you know and that's again,

whenever you list the month of Ramadan, that's

when all Muslims are supposed to be fasting.

Right. Yeah. So I think that there, there are

some similarities. So you talked about like empathy.

You talked about, you know, maybe there's a spiritual

focus on humility. Like, like Elizabeth talked

about, there is a sense of emulating like Jesus

fasted. And so maybe that's one of the reasons

that Christians fast as well as to emulate Christ.

So there's some connection, but I think you also

pointed out there are some intentional and important

differences. Right. So as you said, sort of,

Christian fasting is often viewed as optional

and we can debate the extent to which it's optional

or, you know, Jesus says when you fast. So is

Jesus sort of expecting that of us? But regardless

of all of the whether or not this is necessary,

why would we do it? Why? What's the point of

not eating and making yourself hungry? Yeah.

What? Why? Why would we do that? Yeah. The reason

why we do it, because Jesus fasted 40 days and

40 nights. And also, you know, we do, Christian

does it in order to be humble, to focus more

on God, you know, to, like I said before, to

pray, meditate, and to read the word of God.

Right. That word, we can't just read the word

of God alone. We have to read it and apply it

into our daily life. Okay, so how do you think

that fasting helps you to do that? Fasting helps

me to stay humble and to be more focused. Okay,

because you're not distracted by preparing food.

Yeah. Okay. pleasure you know okay okay okay

so it helped me to focus more on god sure to

think of you know spiritual things yeah not of

the worldly things sure yeah yeah yeah because

uh in the bible it says uh we are in this world

yeah but we are not of the world right so we

have to separate ourselves you know from It's

kind of, you know, the way worldly people does

things, even the mode of dress, you know, all

those things. We have to dress modestly and all

that. Yeah. Okay. So it's partly a way of sort

of recognizing that. Not everything that my body

wants is actually good for me. Not everything

that I feel drawn towards is good. And food is

not bad, obviously. But yeah, it is that way

of saying, I am more than my body. I am an embodied

person, and that is super important. But I am

more than my body, and I need to focus on the

spiritual things. It's sort of a way of training

yourself to do that. Yeah, okay. What would you

say, Hugh? Why fast? Well, I think there are

many reasons why we need to fast. But one is

to create a space for God in our lives. And,

you know, Jesus said, man does not live by bread

alone. And so we need to create a space where

we're hungry for God. And by leaving the food

out of it, we leave out another distraction out

of our lives. And it's another way of focusing

on God. And so that's that's one reason to do

it. Other reasons would be when you have an important

decision to make discernment. When you fast,

you really you really you're on your knees and

you're saying, Jesus. I don't want any distractions.

I want just to focus on you so that I can get

your guidance and I can get your next steps on

this decision. So that's another way that people

fast. And it shows really a more total dependence

on God when you fast because you've left everything

of the world because food is so much a part of.

what we consider the world sure so when food

is gone then then we really um we're really saying

god i'm really totally dependent on you and yeah

what you know yeah yeah yeah for sure yeah i

think it's interesting because when we think

about we think about food as a distraction. I

think the immediate like sort of counter argument

that comes into my mind is like, well, then won't

I just be distracted by being hungry? Right.

And if I'm just focused on being hungry all of

the time, like, is that actually less of a distraction?

But yeah, I don't know. In your experience, like

has hunger been a distraction in your practices

of fasting or has it been something that. you

sort of work through like i don't know it can

be what yeah it can be it's uh i mean even like

with muslim fasting you know you're dealing with

you know hunger thirst headache tiredness weakness

all that kind of stuff but i think what connects

both islam and christianity in that fasting practice

is it's mind over matter it's pushing through

these bodily feelings and and things that are

going on you know and i mean i think part of

it is you know is also like that's where you

really have to focus on god because i mean it

was jesus was tempted during those 40 days by

the devil it wasn't jesus didn't have a full

belly of food and drink and he was all relaxed

no he was he was fighting through all of his

uh you know, the fasting and then, and it was

there that he was tempted. Sure. You know, in

a week in probably in a physically weakened state.

Sure. You know? So I think we have to sort of

like, I think it's a way for, I guess in a Christian

perspective, it would be a way to really, you

know, it's either going to strengthen us or we're

going to give in. Right. And we have to be strengthened,

not given. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's for me,

it hasn't been a distraction. It's it really

helps with the distractions. It's it clears my

mind. Sure. And but, you know, not as much of

a distraction as when I'm doing a quiet time,

you know, and I'm trying to be quiet that way.

the fasting really clears your mind. It prepares

you for that really important meeting with God.

And it brings you into... I think it's that clarity

that also is an act of renewal. It's an act of

renewal of your mind, your soul, your heart towards

God. And that renewal is really important. It's

interesting. Sometimes you have to give something

up to get more. Sure. So to be renewed, you have

to give up, to give something. Yeah. And it's

also an identification of solidarity, if you

want, with the poor. Although we're so rich in

our culture, but it's a small, small experience

of identifying with the poor or those that don't

have three meals a day or that don't have the

quality of food that we have. And I think there's

many areas in Scripture where Jesus suggests

that we identify with those that don't have as

much as we do. And so fasting reminds us of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think about like in

some of my experiences of fasting, most recently

I have sometimes, not regularly, but sometimes

adopted this fasting where you don't eat breakfast

or lunch and then you break the fast sort of

at dinner time. And this has been a pattern that

I've done a few times. And I'll find, okay. skipping

breakfast is like not ideal but like it's fine

but then by lunchtime i'm like oh i am actually

hungry um and there is that moment where that

hunger feels like a bit of a distraction but

it doesn't then continue to feel like a distraction

for the entire afternoon like it's kind of this

like intense period that then i can say okay

no i'm gonna Use those hunger cues as a cue to

prayer, as a cue to scripture reading. And then

continue to just like move about my day. And

it doesn't it doesn't seem to be, at least in

my experience, an ongoing distraction. Oh, that's

good. So what has called each of you to fast?

Because it's not like because, again, in Islam,

it's more of an obligation. This is a Christianity.

It's a choice. So what? What leads you to say,

you know, I'm going to fast today? Sure. Yeah,

that's totally. The problems of living. Okay.

Well, then I guess we'll always be hungry because

there's so many problems of living. We have so

many times in our lives where we hit the brick

wall, you know, and we need guidance and we need

support. We need strength. And fasting is a really.

a terrific i think very rich spiritual practice

that gives us that guidance you know when we

have an important decision to make um when you

know we we're looking for uh for a partner we

have uh i don't know critical job decision to

make. We have an issue in relationships. You

know, the problems of living. I think fasting

really comes in there and really helps us. Right.

So for you, fasting has been something that's

really helped you in important decision making

and discernment. For sure. Taking that time to

listen to God. For sure. What about for you,

Elizabeth? For me, you know, when I was growing

up, our parents make it compost free. Okay. Okay.

So there was a little bit of, this is just what

you have to do. Yeah. So fast, you know, those

years, you know, you thought maybe they are so

strict and all that. Yeah. Why, why, why do they

want us to go through hunger and all that? But,

um, it's a commandment, you know, because Jesus

Christ fasted. Uh, so that is what they, put

in now if that is what they embedded in our mind

that time that you know okay you always say you

are a follower of jesus christ jesus christ go

through this fasting so why can't you go through

it sure so that's number one and again weekly

my mom she used to fast wednesday and So, you

know, she also encouraged us to do that. So I've

been doing it all my life. And even on Sunday,

you know, after I did the confirmation at our

church back in Nigeria, I decided on Sundays,

being the Sabbath day, that I, you know, I should

fast. It's just the prompting that I got. So

I don't eat breakfast. If you notice me, everybody

always drinking water. So I skip that. The first

thing that I put in my mouth, apart from brushing

my teeth, is Holy Communion on Sundays. So after

then, I can... Okay. So it's been part of my

life. Fasting has been what empowers me to do

God's will. And when I need prayer, it helps

me to focus more on prayer. Because fasting is

like a boost that takes your prayer to the throne

of grace. help prayer answered faster than, you

know, normal prayer. So that's my belief. And

that is what I've been, you know, I've been going

through all my life. Yeah. So it's just sort

of become part of your rhythm. Yeah. It's something

that you feel like God has compelled you to do

something that you feel able to do. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think for me, the first time as an adult,

I guess that I did, And actually, maybe really

the first time that I did fasting sort of intentionally

as a spiritual practice, I was in Bible school.

And so, again, I was sort of instructed to do

it. And but the purpose of this day. So it was

like a sort of silent retreat day. So it's like,

OK, so you do fasting and, you know, you do some

prayer and scripture reading. But then another

part of this day. was that we had this sort of

24 -7 prayer room situation. And we were supposed

to all sign up for an hour and go and pray with

a focus on praying for the persecuted church.

So praying for Christians around the world who

are experiencing suffering because of their faith.

And what I found in that moment was that there

was something about coming to that space of prayer.

in a physically vulnerable state, like being

hungry, that somehow like deepened my ability

to pray for people who were suffering. And I

can't explain it. I can't be like, oh, this is

exactly how that worked. But it just like it

felt different to me. And it felt like a little

bit like solidarity, a little bit like empathy.

But it was just this space of being able to say,

OK, I am. suffering with the suffering church

definitely not to the same level at all like

i'm not saying that but like there was a sense

of feeling connected it helps happen to that

empathy yeah yeah i think so yeah and so that's

been something that i'll sometimes come back

to when i'm like yeah when i like want to be

praying for a specific thing or yeah sometimes

like you said when i'm like trying to really

make a decision um or just feeling like okay

i need I need some more clear space in my life.

Yeah. That fasting is helpful then. I've been

to a church in Canada here that every first Sunday

of the month we have to fast. Okay. And then

that equivalent to the breakfast dollar that's...

we are going to use for that breakfast, we always

donate it to the less fortunate individuals.

Right, so you look at your sort of budget and

you say, okay, I would have spent $20 on food

today, for example, and so I'm going to donate

that $20 to a charity of some sort that helps

folks who are suffering. Yeah, so that's sort

of... the what and the why and the experience

of it. This feels like an obvious question, but

what is hard about Fasten? What makes it a challenging

thing for us to sort of... Well, it's a discipline.

It's a spiritual practice. And so you've got

to be sort of intentional about it and say, you

know, I'm going to fast. And not just for fasting,

but for a reason. There's a reason for fasting.

But it's a practice like any other spiritual

practice that we've discussed so far. There's

a discipline component to it. For sure. For sure.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so last week when we were

talking about. Sabbath, one of the things that

I said was that it's important if you're going

to practice Sabbath that you get your household

on board with that. I would say the same thing

about fasting. Now, I think you can decide that

you are fasting and that doesn't mean that you

need to force everybody in your household to

fast with you. Sometimes that's actually super

helpful if you and your partner or whoever can

fast together. That's great. But at least letting

them know that that's what's happening. Especially

if you're not the cook. Yes, that's right. Your

wife cooks you this lovely dinner and then you

show up and you say, oh, actually, I'm fasting.

I'll enjoy the five hours and I can have my fast.

Yeah. So, yes, I think that communication piece

is important. Yeah. I don't know. Is there anything

else that you feel like something that makes

it particularly challenging to fast? I think

it's just understanding. why you want to fast

that day that's that because again i mean like

especially i guess it's it can be tricky especially

when you're a younger person and you're told

to fast you know you don't know why but this

is just what we do or so yeah so i think it's

important that it especially as an adult if you're

gonna fast you gotta have to have in mind What

do you want out of it? What are you gaining out

of it? And how long do you even want to fast

for? Because it doesn't have to be an hour before

sunrise until sunset, no food, no water, like

with Islam. So I think that's important. And

I think it can be a challenging thing if you

don't realize that as well. is part of your faith

journey and you know like like elizabeth said

you know if you're a follower of christ well

christ fasted right so that is more of an incentive

to fast because we all want to live like jesus

and follow his teachings and his ways So you're

more motivated, you know, versus if, well, mom

and dad said, so we're all fasting. You know

what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think your point

is well taken. You have to have a why to fast.

I grew up as Catholic, so we had to fast every

Friday, but we only had fish. and i thought i

could never understand that that the why wasn't

there why can't i have fish and chips why can't

i have black licorice too with that because i

really love black licorice sure yeah yeah but

so we but we could we fast but it's just fish

but why why so there was no why so it was very

very difficult yeah yeah yeah for sure yeah i

think that also makes me think about You know,

some of these practical questions are super important.

The like when and the how and the what. Right.

Because there is fasting that is abstaining from

all food. There's fasting that includes abstaining

from water. There's some fasting that is, you

know, I will only eat a certain type of food.

So I only eat fish or only fruits and vegetables.

And then, yeah, there's all of these practices

of abstinence as well, of just getting rid of

some habit or some. practice in your life that

you want to sort of get rid of. Um, yeah. To,

to help you focus on, on something else. Um,

yeah. So just thinking through the practicalities

of it sort of ahead of time. Yeah. And I think

the bigger picture to Hugh's point is especially

if you're a Christian, that's raising a family

is when you're raising kids, they need to have

a why they need to have an understanding because,

you know, let's just face it. Fasting is not

a fun practice. It's not. Nobody goes, oh, boy,

I get to stay abstain from food and water. Yay.

You know, nobody does that. But it's like if

you know why you're suffering, at least for temporarily.

Yeah. It makes a difference because, you know,

you want to think you think about because you

could think of fasting as a negative thing and

a thing to draw you away from Christ and away

from Christianity. You know, so you need to be

able to. Your kids have to know when they're

old enough that this is why we fast and this

is the purpose of it. And, you know, so that

they can continue on. And I think especially

it's important in a Christian household to let

them know that, you know, it doesn't have to

be an every week thing. It doesn't have to be,

you know, it can be when you need that discernment.

Sure. So, yeah. And don't drive them by a Swiss

chalet. Temptation. Yes, yes, yes. That might

be hard in the city where everything has a drive

-thru. I know. Yeah. Okay, so it's really hard,

and we've talked about some of the whys, but

what makes it worthwhile? Have any of you ever

had experiences where you fasted and you felt,

okay, that was worth it, even though it was hard?

And what made it feel worthwhile? I had a really

important decision to make at one point in my

life. I went back to school a couple of times,

but the last time I went back, I was 38, and

I had three children, 12, 11, and 9. And so we

had to sell our house because I was doing a doctorate,

and I had to be on campus in those days for two

years. And so I had to go. if I was going to

do that. Huge decision. For sure. You've got

three kids, you sell your house, and you may

or may not have enough money to last you two

years. And is that really what God is calling

me? Sure. You're wrestling with that call. For

sure. Because the world's saying, oh, you've

got a good job, you've got a nice house, why

are you doing this? And yet the call of God is

saying, because I'm calling you, I'm calling

you to something else. So we spent, my wife and

I spent probably most of the day on our knees

fasting. And really asking for clarity and asking

for a renewed vision, a renewed conviction that

this was the call. And I think the result was

that we felt renewed. We felt the renewed call

after spending that time in fasting. And that,

you know, led us to follow up on the decision.

But when you have those important decisions,

even the healthy, decision sometimes. You know,

if you're facing a really difficult health decision,

fasting will really, will really, will really

help. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like asking

Jesus. Even when you're going for some medical

test, you know, they will ask you to fast, you

know, in order to, to do the test then so that

you will get proper result for blood work usually.

Yeah. So what about for you, Elizabeth? What

do you find joyful or helpful about fasting?

It renews my mind and strength. I remember when

I was in Nigeria in 1987, I went to a retreat

and there was a prophetic ministration going

on and I was called and I was told that I would

be trapped. I don't even dream of my, my siblings

are in United States that time, but I don't even

think of traveling, you know? So then there was

a prophecy that I'm going to travel. But before,

that traveling before that this i can get the

visa that i have to fast for 21 days so i was

looking and you know like but oh my gosh i i

believe in god but i was looking and yeah but

i i went through the fasting and um Within a

few weeks, that visa came through. Then in 1988,

I traveled to the United States. So, you know,

sometimes first thing open doors that you don't

even expect that it will open. Fasting, I can

tell you a lot of testimony about my life. Yeah,

how you've seen the effect. Yeah, even my daughter,

you know, within my family, I can, you know,

through the power of fasting, you know, prayer,

answer, and things turn around from worst to

good. Yeah, it's so interesting because I think

that there's there's a careful line we need to

walk here where like fasting does do these really

powerful things in our lives and through us.

And we see answered prayer. And I don't want

to then say that like somehow we fast and we

like get to earn these good things. Right. We

don't fast and then God pays more attention to

us because we're fasting. That's not how it works.

I don't know exactly how it works, but there

is. Some spiritual power that's there. It helps

us to pay more attention to God rather than the

other way around. Well, I think it's like with,

I don't know if it was last week's sermon or

the week before, but how Rob was saying, you

know, yeah, it's not our works that get us to

heaven, but God appreciates those works, especially

if it's in Jesus' name. Right, right. And those

works... form us into the image of christ exactly

yeah yeah yeah for sure because yeah you don't

have to do any of it but and you can believe

in jesus but you know there's more sort of like

you know how you know how well did you follow

jesus you know because i don't think i i mean

i don't know if everybody that gets to heaven

will hear jesus say well done my good and faithful

servant they may They may get entered, but you

know, it's just, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe.

Yeah. I think it's like, is it reserved for people

that actually try to walk the path of Jesus?

Sure. You know, and, and do those practices.

Cause I mean, the whole point with the series

is to be more like, live more like Jesus and

follow his teachings and his practices. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And so fasting just like is. is a

way that that happens, right? And it's a way

we become more Christ -like, I think. Even if

we don't understand exactly how that works. Even

if we can't say that there's an... that a causes

b right that i fasted and therefore i got a visa

right like it looks like that and like maybe

there's some causation there but like yeah we

don't know exactly how all of the pieces fit

we don't know how god works yeah we're just supposed

to follow god they're not supposed to ask yeah

we're not supposed to ask god well why are you

asking me to do this sure sure i mean there's

space for that i think we definitely can ask

god those questions but we don't need to know

the answer to the question in order to live the

life of faith. God will reveal it in time. Yeah.

Okay. So then as you think about fasting, like

this is in some ways a really tangible practice.

It's something that requires some practical preparation

and sort of steps. So then what sort of tips

would you have to offer to people who want to

try and practice fasting? What are some important

things to sort of keep in mind? What would you

say, Elizabeth? They should just start gradually,

you know. Sure. Maybe one step at a time. If

you can't fast all day, you can break your fast

at noon. Sometimes if you have the strength,

you can break your fast at 3 p .m. Sure. Or if

you if God empowers you, you can break your fast

at 6 p .m. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So just doing it

in the chunks that sort of work for you. Yeah.

Yeah. What else would we say? I would I would

go and suggest that they go into the scripture

and see all the times that. that the scriptural

characters fasted and why they fasted. And that

might give them an idea of, of the reasons for

fasting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.

So when you sort of go through scripture, so

obviously we have this example of Jesus and Jesus

was preparing for his ministry. We have examples

of Daniel and some of the others who were living

in Babylon and under this oppression. Yeah. And,

and the example of Esther, And so Esther was

asking folks to fast because she had this really

important decision to make. So sort of like you

were saying, Daniel was fasting as a way of standing

up against empire, as a way of saying, I don't

want to be like my culture. I want to be shaped

by God. Right. Yeah. I think there are other

reasons, like sometimes people will fast because

they're struggling with. some sort of a sin in

their life and sometimes it's it's it's a really

fleshly or like bodily sin so like struggling

with you know gluttony or with lust or struggling

with pride and greed and like sometimes fasting

is a way of challenging those sins quite directly

by saying i am Not going to let my body have

a say in what I want and how I behave. And it

brings you to repentance. So when you focus on

fasting, you know, it makes you humble because

you have to look at the way Jesus was humble

and the way he associated with his disciples.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the other another practical

consideration is that this is a very physical

bodily practice. And so you need to listen to

and take care of your body in this practice.

Right. And for some people, fasting from food

is just not something that they will physically

be able to do because of health condition or

whatever. Right. And there's there's no shame

in that. Right. There are other practices of

abstinence or ways of doing fasting that will

work for those people. And if you're concerned

about that at all, and maybe even if you're not

concerned, it like is worth like bringing it

up and talking with your doctor and being like,

okay, this is a practice that I want to integrate.

Like, what should I be aware of? Especially,

you know, if you have certain health conditions

or if you're taking certain medications, you

know, just making sure that you gather all of

that information so that you are taking care

of yourself even as you're doing this practice.

Yeah. I think it's important to the, that. fasting

is not always physical but that's what we always

think of you know whether it's for a medical

test or religious or thing you know or you know

but uh i think as well the other thing i would

say with the tip wise is um the way like fasting

and keeping the sabbath are kind of two sides

of the same coin in a way like the sabbath is

like almost like a digital detox you know it's

a digital fast it's a getting rid of that you

know and then obviously fasting is a physical

getting rid of but what's important with both

is what are you filling that space and that time

with? Yeah. You know, if you're just not eating

and you're just miserable and doing nothing or,

or, or you're, or you're, or you're, or if you're

fasting and then just like, I don't know, watching

food network videos or something like that. Well,

you're not doing it. You're not doing any good,

but if you're in prayer, if you're in meditation,

if you're reading the Bible, if you're doing

that thing, you know. Again, if you're going

to give up something, you have to fill it with

something else. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure.

Making that space. Yeah. And then I think the

last thing I would sort of say is like having

a plan. Right. So and being flexible with that

plan. Right. So if your plan is, OK, I'm going

to fast until 3 p .m. and you get to noon and

you feel like this is unbearable, like that's

OK. And then having a plan. OK, so knowing, OK,

I have some water available. I have some food

readily available so that when I'm ready to break

my fast, I can do that sort of easily. Yeah.

Just getting all of those practical considerations.

Yeah. Yeah. Fasting is like I like I started

out by saying it's really hard, but it is really

powerful, I think. And it's something that I

think. I know I spent a lot of my life sort of

brushing it off and sort of saying, well, fasting

isn't really that important. Fasting is for a

certain subset of Christians who are like really

super spiritual or who are like really believe

in that. And I don't know, it's just sort of

over there. But I think it is something that

we can all participate in in some way and something

that, yeah, is formational in surprising ways

sometimes. Yeah. So thank you so much, folks,

for this conversation. And thank you for tuning

in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. Whether

you decide to fast from food or not, whether

you are going to go ahead and fast from social

media or shopping or whatever. I hope that you

can find some practice that works for you where

you can remove distractions and find that time

to really focus on God and to experience God's

presence and power and compassion in the midst

of that hardship that you are facing. And we

will see you again next week.