A New Path for Ministry | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla, and I am excited

to be joined here by Jordana, who is a member

of Trinity's board. And of course, Pastor Rob,

who is the pastor, the rector here at Trinity

Streetsville. And we're going to dive into Trinity's

new strategic plan, this new vision, this new

path that we have sort of set before us that

we believe God is calling us to walk on. Yes.

Yeah. So maybe. To just help us get started,

Rob, can you describe a little bit, what was

the process for sort of creating this strategic

plan? Well, I think, like I was trying to say

in there, I feel like after a few years of being

here, I mean, there was so much to learn. There

was so much kind of just rebuilding after the

pandemic that in some ways, the trajectory of

the church was kind of set for us just because

of the newness of the world post -COVID -19.

But now that's in the rearview mirror. And now

we're kind of I just started to feel like, hmm,

what what is the plan for this next season? And

so and not even like what is what is Rob think

the plan is for the next season? But but what

what is God saying to us as a community about

where he's leading us next? So we we embarked

upon a big listening process. We spent a day

listening to what the staff were thinking and

feeling about the challenges and the strengths

of Trinity. Then we engaged our vestry and asked

them to share kind of when they've seen Trinity

at its best. And what are some of the things

that give them hope? What are some of the things

that give them pause and concern? And what are

they hearing in their own prayers about the future

of Trinity? Then, of course, we went to our advisory

board and they started to sift through all this

data. And we had a wonderful coach. Mike Messenger

was guiding us along the way. So we were well

taken care of in this process. And then ultimately,

it started to really become clear that there

were these five key signposts that were emerging.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, Jordana, did you want to

sort of add anything to that? Like, from your

view, what was that process sort of like? Well,

I was part of the vestry and then again the advisory

board meetings. And what was really encouraging

with the vestry was how much appreciation there

was for what was already here. There was a really

good appreciation of worship, of a lot of connections

and ministry already there. And then slowly what

there was also was a sense that people also felt

a little disconnected. And as the church grew,

that there's growth, there's new ministries,

and then some felt they were... sort of required

a little more maybe care or a little more there

were just more needs also expressed sure and

so out of that you get a sense of where people

sat and different um you know with different

needs with different um ideas for where the church

could be and um that was brought into the advisory

board um meeting um yeah and then we went from

there okay yeah yeah cool so rob you mentioned

these five things do you want to just name them

for us quickly OK, so the five signs, the first

one, we kind of just tried to boil them down

to very simple phrases. So we'll have to unpack

them. But was about growing deep. There was one

about strengthening care. There was another one

about raising leaders. The fourth one was about

engaging the next generation. And then the fifth

one was all about extending our reach, expanding

our reach as a church. Yeah. So those are the

five signs. So the five signs we've put up around

the building today. And we really want people

to kind of lock onto those five very simple images

and build from there. Okay, cool. So as you think

about those five different pieces, are there

any aspects of it that like really resonate with

you or that, you know, resonate with things that

you've been sort of seeing or hearing around

Trinity recently? Want to start us off there,

Jordana? Sure. I mean, I think out of those five

signs, discipleship was just central to almost

everybody's sense of what needed to be deepened.

Sure. Yeah, so that's the growing deep thing.

It is the growing deep thing. It's a sense of,

you know, you can very quickly grow a church

that's shallow with a lot of people in the pews

and very little actual... I don't know, rootedness,

you know, or connection or anything like that.

And we've heard stories of churches like that.

And so that idea that as we went forward, if

there wasn't care for those who were growing,

not just attending. It would just feel very superficial,

very fast. And so that was really central, and

then others came on. The sense that there's growing

loneliness needs as people grow older, that care

mattered, and there needed to be the capacity

to actually do that. On one hand, a growing church

can draw on resources to create it. On the other

hand, it needs that administrative center to

do that. the sense that youth mattered when it

came to, you know, the fact that it's easy to

come to church as young people and then leave.

And if you're not theologically formed in those

times, it feels like the world has so many pressures

and you're not going to be able to know what

that Christian story is that can respond to them

and to anchor them. And so there needed to be...

deeper formation both for young people as well

as for those who are coming in who are a little

older beyond university for example and that's

a slightly different group than the youth so

i would say those three really struck me rob

i'm not sure if you want to speak to the others

but um but those are the ones yeah you know one

of the ones that kind of um started lower down

on the radar, but then emerged to kind of quickly

kind of peaked up toward the end was around leadership

development and raising up leaders. And I think

it's because we started to realize that if we

have visions and plans for the future, if we

don't have the leadership capacity, if we don't

have people to kind of you know, lead this work,

then it's going to be a recipe for burnout for

the few people that are trying to carry it. You

know, I can, I can think back to early days when

I was, you know, just getting started in ministry

and I had all sorts of ideas. But it felt like

I was also the only one who was carrying them.

And it was such a bad idea. Not only did we never

really get very far in these ideas, but I, you

know, nearly killed myself, right? Kind of being

the one thinking like, you know, I've got to

lead the charge on all these things. So I really

love how we've identified right in the strategic

plan that this is going to be a shared leadership

approach for this. We're going to raise up the

very leaders we need. to live out this, this

plan. Yeah. Yeah. And in that way, I think a

lot of the pieces are really interconnected,

right? That like, we think of them as these five

signposts, but, but we can't do one without the

other, right? That we need to be able to grow

deep so that we can extend our reach, that we

can raise leaders, right? And that. in caring

for our community we're caring for youth and

young adults and we're caring for the people

that we haven't even met yet right yeah yeah

they're all they're all these bits that's right

they all do things work together and that's like

a god thing you know when that happens you kind

of feel like oh yeah god's been in this for sure

so um in some ways this is a new season for trinity

i think but it's not all brand new. I think it

really fits with the sort of DNA of who Trinity

is. So as you think about, you know, Trinity's

history and values, like how does this new plan

sort of mesh with those, do you think? Oh, I

mean, that's a good question. I mean, you know,

forever, Trinity has had this like mission statement

that we're a group of ordinary people learning

to follow Jesus in our own day. And I don't think

anything we've talked about today, anything that

we're doing in this new plan deviates from that

very basic and simple statement. It's all still,

you know, deeply rooted in that. And I should

say, like, it could be like we have a mission

statement. We also have this vision statement

of loving Jesus, living like Jesus, leading others

to Jesus. This is not a new. vision statement

we're coming up this is not a new mission statement

this is again it's kind of the plan it's it's

these are the the the road signs that get us

there it's the like how to the vision yes that's

right yeah yeah exactly so in that sense uh i

think it fits very nicely in with the existing

kind of um vision and mission of trinity yeah

yeah yeah what what would you sort of add to

that yeah i wouldn't Too much, actually. I would

just say that Trinity's had a long history of

really strong lay leaders. And in many ways,

the church has had strong pastoral leadership,

but then it's been this pillars of people who

are taking leadership on prayer, on outreach,

on alpha, on all these different ways in which

really very capable and faithful leaders have.

in the DNA of this church. And I think the challenge

and the promise is that the plan builds on that,

but it commits as more people come in to growing

new ones as well. I think there was a sense in

which many of those leaders, I just think they're

growing a little older right now. I can think

of names that are just growing a little older.

And if we are not intentional about developing

new younger people in that faithfulness, I think

that work will become shallower over time. For

sure, for sure. And going back to something you

said earlier, Jordana, I think that for so many

churches, when they come up with things like

strategic plans and all that, the why underneath

all of it is because we want to grow. We want

to grow the church. We want to grow the church.

And I think that that's what I love about this

plan is that actually we do talk about extending

our reach, but that is like the fifth sign. Sure.

It is down the road. And it really it starts

with, yeah, growing deep before growing wide.

It talks about caring. In fact. I was a little

bit uncertain how I felt about this because caring

has like an inwardness to it. Right. And I think

we think, no, we've always going to be going

outward, outward, outward. But no, there is a

sense in which we want to disciple our people,

want to care for our people. We want to raise

up from within, you know, leaders and young people.

And yeah, all that leads to growth by God's grace

that could happen. But that's not what's in the

driver's seat with this. Yeah, it's that sense

of like, we need to create a healthy space where

people are feeling cared for, where people are

feeling like growing in their connection to Christ,

growing in their connection to one another. And

I think that will naturally... people will become

curious about it i think it will naturally become

a welcoming space it already is trinity is a

super welcoming space right like lots of people

have said that right and so as we focus on caring

for the people who are already here i think i

believe that god will continue to to bless that

work yes yes that's right like a healthy church

is it's own best advertising in a sense, right?

It's a horrible way of saying it, but, but yeah,

just, there's a, there's a magnetic, uh, quality

to that, that when, uh, people in Christ are

caring for each other and the Holy spirit is

creating a vibrant, healthy community that has,

um, that, that it's has, there's a gravity to

that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So there's

all of these ways that this plan has sort of

built on who Trinity is, our DNA, what we value.

Um, Obviously, it's a new vision, so there are

new parts of this as well. Yeah, are there any

pieces of this that you feel like are sort of

new or uncharted territory for Trinity? Yeah,

what would you sort of say for that, Jordana?

Well, I do think that the young adult ministry

focus is new. There has been a sense in which

children have been taken care of. But as we move

into more young people coming in or some of the

children growing out of the children's ministry,

it matters how they are cared for and discipled.

And so that's new. What else? I think the sense

of outreach is new. And there are challenges,

too, as much as the word a word like discipleship

is so necessary. And we feel like that grounds

everything. How to live out that discipleship

for different ages and different ways and different

needs is going to be something that we need to

think through going forward. Right. So, yeah.

And I think I think like. Often, when you talk

to people who study church statistics and growth

and things like that, they'll talk about the

university age of the young adults as being the

place where there's often a gap. Right. Like

churches are really good at providing bridges

from kids ministry into youth ministry. And then,

you know, if they come back as adults with their

own kids, there's like bridges for that. But

like when someone goes off to university and

like they're sort of forced into independence

in some ways, like that's often a gap. And so

for Trinity to be like, we want to really intentionally

bridge that gap. We want to provide spaces for

care and community and discipleship. In the midst

of that, I think is really important. Yeah. And

it wasn't like it was even just something that

a bunch of people around a table decided this

would be a good idea. I think there was there

was an awareness that this was kind of happening

organically in our myths. It's like, you know,

you can plant all these seeds and then sometimes

something is starting to grow over here and you

never really planted that or you weren't really.

intending or aware that that was growing. And

I think what we discovered is there was this

young adult kind of ministry, this young adult

kind of hunger for going deeper that was kind

of appearing. And thankfully, people like Mia

and Ethan Brandon and others kind of jumped in

to provide some leadership to kind of create

some a life group around that. And. So, you know,

there's the old saying, right, that if you want

to know kind of where to go, like look for where

God is at work and then join in with what God

is already doing. And I really felt like that's

what was happening in our desire to support young

adult ministry is that we saw it. We're like,

oh, God is doing something here. Yeah. We need

to invest there, you know, go where God is going.

Yeah. Yeah. Are there any other bits that feel

like like new or uncharted territory? Well, a

couple maybe like we're starting to create more

of our own material and content and stuff like

that. So so developing this course, I mean, there's

great courses out there. Alpha is an amazing

course. We've used practicing the way material.

But throughout this process, I think there's

been this sense that. The better that we get

to know our own people in our own context, we

have the ability to kind of create our own material,

our own curriculum and stuff like that. So so

that is kind of new. We're going to be filming

this kind of. new discipleship curriculum over

the next month. And, um, I've never done that

before and I don't know how it'll go and if it'll

be worth it or not, but we definitely felt like,

yeah, this is something we need to do as a church.

And, and, and that's kind of new. Is that for

the whole church? Yeah, it would. Okay. Yes.

It's, I mean, what do you mean by that? Oh, I

was. Or whether it was just for discipleship

year students. No, no, no, no. So this is like

a teaching series that we did in Lent. Kind of

now being turned into, you know, like a video

series that would have like workbooks and stuff

like that to go with it. Kind of like a small

group curriculum type. Yeah. You know, years

ago, Harold Percy had a course here at Trinity

that he built called Christianity 101. Right.

Well, you know, what about Alpha? Wasn't Alpha

a Christianity 101? Well, yes, it was. But but,

you know, Harold felt like there was something

to be said about creating something that was,

you know. kind of homegrown. And, uh, I think

that's the same kind of a thing. There's not,

there's resources out there, but we've, we're

feeling the desire to create something that's

kind of homegrown. The other thing that is definitely

going to be new or a stretch is of course, all

this talk about, you know, whether God might

be calling Trinity to, to plant a church in the,

in not tomorrow or next year, but I'm actually

genuinely excited about that because the more

I think about it, the more I think that's actually

like, shouldn't be so strange. That should be

like a normal part of the life cycle of a church

to reproduce. Like I said this morning, this

church is here because a group of people at some

point said, hey, let's leave our places of worship

and start a new place of worship because we've

discerned there's a need here. Every church had

its beginnings. It was always planted by a group

of faithful people who went out and began a church

with God's. help. So, uh, I don't think it should

be that crazy or a strange of an idea. And so

I'm kind of glad that we're starting to talk

about it. We're starting to explore that. And

I really do think that when it comes to, um,

this, you know, churches growing and all that

stuff, you do start to see diminishing returns,

uh, like plateauing in your, in your growth.

You can keep putting the work and the energy

in, uh, but at some point, uh, it just, you know,

it's, it's, uh, it's, it's not. sustainable to

keep growing in the same building. Yes. And that

sort of thing you mean? Yeah. And so I think

you, you, and I mean, and all the research says

this, that you get, um, way more kind of impact.

You reach more people and especially young people

through starting a new community somewhere else

with some new leadership, obviously still connected

to Trinity, but there's just way more fruit that

gets born that way. And so I'm excited to explore

that. I've never done that before. Yeah. Yeah.

Very cool. Yeah. So, yeah, you've just said you're

excited about this. Jordana, when you think about

all of the pieces of this plan, is there a piece

that feels really exciting to you? I think discipleship.

Yeah. That's the thing that feels exciting for

me. And then as a mom of two boys, I think the

focus and the deepening in youth ministry. As

any parent, I think, does worry about their formation,

their grounding, their love for Jesus. I don't

want that to fade. and it's easy right now to

create spaces where we can talk about these things,

but they are growing into teenagers, and they

will have their own ideas, and there needs to

be a space outside of my voice to bring questions,

to have them answered thoughtfully, and to encourage

them in that walk. And so those two tend to be

like discipleship for me and for the children,

to be honest. I just don't think it's possible

to disciple kids without yourself being a disciple.

Sure. Yeah. But but that's space for deeper formation

for them. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And

I liked that aspect that came out in the process

that it's discipleship for every age and stage.

And. That just excites me because this is something

we can work on in children's ministry. It's something

we can work on in youth ministry, with our adults,

with our DY students at camp. So it kind of gives

us, it gives all of our staff and all of our

leaders, like their marching orders, that this

piece actually pertains to you. It pertains to

your, you know, to life groups. Yes, it's you.

You know, youth ministry. Yes. Junior youth.

Yes. You know, children's ministry. Yeah. It

was really named. that it's not one particular

demographic that needs this attention. It's,

it has to be a lifelong journey of discipleship

before Jesus. And I just want to kind of say

one, like, I think that as well, Jordana, you

mentioned something that, you know, you have

this, this feeling that I think so many parents

feel that you so want your children to kind of

embrace the faith for themselves and make that

transition that you spoke about. It is often

so difficult when they start to get older. And,

um, I think that we all know people, and there

are many people here at this church who, yeah,

their children, for whatever reason, have maybe

not made that decision. And I think so. There

was a bit of pain, I think, sometimes, too, that

people named at times, maybe in conversations

with me about, you know, I don't know why that

happened for my kids. I don't know why they,

after all those years, why that happened, that

they ended up not continuing to grow in their

faith and not continuing to follow Jesus. Uh,

you know, we kind of feel that pain. We, we,

we want the, our children to have a lifelong

journey with Jesus. So, um, yeah. So I, I'm excited

about, about that investment. Yeah. Or Trinity

to like find ways to, yeah. Help heal some of

those wounds maybe. Yeah. Bridge some of those

gaps. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um, okay. So all

of a sudden. Exciting. It also all sounds very

big and maybe challenging. So as you sort of

look ahead to this, Rob, are there any sort of

specific challenges that you sort of anticipate

facing? So, I mean, I think finding and building

the right leadership team to activate these ideas

is... probably one of the challenges that I see

is like the big one on my plate is to, yeah,

if we want to have amazing youth ministry, how

do we make sure we have amazing youth leaders,

right? If we want to have amazing young adult

ministry, we have to have leaders in those places.

If we want to, you know, like one of the ideas

that we floated out there was, hey, wouldn't

it be great if we had a staff person that could

focus just on equipping and raising up and celebrating

our, teams and our leaders and our volunteers,

I get really, really excited about that. But

then I'm like, yeah, but who is that person?

Who would that person be that has those skills,

that passion? And so, yeah, people resources,

as I said in the sermon, I think that is our,

that's our number one resource is the people.

Sure. Tied to that, and then I'll hand it over

to Jordana, I think there may also be some financial

resources that we need to find in order to make

some of this happen. Um, I don't, I don't think

that's a huge part of it. Um, but yeah, every,

uh, you know, ministry costs money. Yeah. Right.

And so, uh, if we, if we have a big vision. For

the future, one of the challenges will be making

sure that it continues to get funded through

the generosity of our congregation. For sure.

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Jordan?

Are there any challenges you sort of anticipate?

Yeah, I think that the leadership bit is the

biggest one. I think one of the things that came

out of that is that if you're going to try and

raise leaders, you know, you need to do it from

within, from the congregation itself, people

who are already invested here in many ways, just

because. As you said, otherwise it ends up being

a sort of paid position at every level and every

stage, and then finances become an issue, whereas

there's much more organic sense of team building

when we talk about raising lay leaders, maybe.

I don't know, Rob, whether I'm getting it wrong

over here in terms of the interrelation between

financial and lay leaders. I was thinking much

more of lay leaders in terms of just... Those

who will just lead ministries that they have

a heart of and have that. Have a career somewhere

else. They may have a career somewhere else.

They may have some resources. And you actually

end up drawing on that in ways that are more

sustainable than always asking for money to have

a paid position. And, you know, in that case,

very often leaders like that end up working in

teams and naturally mentoring new leaders. But

that investment in those leaders, those sort

of. Leaders matter. I'm just thinking of one

story. Sorry, I know you want to get in. No,

I don't. We're coming out of time. Just that

one story where I heard of a missionary talk

about somewhere else where there was a question

about growth in churches abroad. And he said,

well, you know, Americans are very. and maybe

Canadians too, but Americans are very hung up

on numbers. We can have 10 ,000 people come to

Christ and never have any discipleship for them,

or we can raise up 10 Pauls, right? What matters

more? And so that investment in people who can

then have that impact means time and means patience.

Sure. But it also means sort of a kind of prioritization

of where do we put initial energy and then allow

that to grow. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're,

I mean, Trinity is, frankly, spoiled in the sense

that we have so many people already here who

in their work lives or some of them in their

ministry work have such amazing leadership gifts

and experiences to bring to the table. So we're,

I mean, that's amazing because it means that

this doesn't necessarily. cost this doesn't cost

a lot of money right like you're right you're

totally right on Jordana like this is a this

this is not a strategic plan that needs oodles

of money to make it work what we're what we really

need to do is activate the the the potential

in our congregation right now and and I think

that's definitely doable by the way and yeah

yeah yeah yeah okay so As we've sort of shared

all this and rolled all of it out, are there

any ways that you think our congregation can

be supporting and praying for this vision? Like

what what is the role of the people in all of

this? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you you said

praying. And I really do think that is the number

one thing to be doing at this moment. The last

time I. felt like we just got to pray. We just

got to pray. Like in the same way was like I

shared, you know, about five years ago when there

was like, it was a brand new situation for me.

It was a brand new city for me, a church of full

of people that I never met. And because of the

pandemic would kind of take a long time to meet.

And I said, what do we do? What do we do here?

Do we need a strategic plan? Do we need like

a new program? And I think when the answer kind

of finally came to us, it was like, well, duh,

of course. Just pray. We need to pray. This is

a time to pray and to really lean into prayer

and to kind of turn our church into a house of

prayer. And so that was. the emphasis that was

what we discerned needed to happen in that moment.

And I think we're, we're kind of in a moment

like that again right now. Yeah. Right. As we,

as we launch out of this, one of the best things

people can do and people who are watching at

home or people who are here in person is just

to pray for your church, pray for the children,

pray for the staff and the leaders here. and

and pray that this this vision this strategic

plan really takes root one of my biggest fears

would be is that we've done all this work it

becomes a document and now it just goes and sits

on a shelf so so one thing they can do is pray

but the other thing they can do is try to figure

out what is my part in this right because because

like jeremiah said stand at the crossroads you

know look and ask but then once you see the good

way you must walk in it right there there so

so all of us will have some part to play in this

so sure so i would say to folks watching like

What is going to be that part for you? You know,

how are you going to walk in this good way that

God has given us? Are you going to, you know,

put your hand up when the call comes for leaders?

Are you going to, you know, be generous? Are

you going to pray regularly for the church? So,

yeah, we all got to walk in it. For sure. For

sure. Yeah. I will not add too much to that.

I just echo that, you know, pray and then have

a sense. Come alongside those leaders whose ministries

you have a heart for already. you know, say that

you'd like to support them or ask if you can

help. There was just a lot already going on that

touch on these five pillars. Yeah. And then like

just strengthen what is being done. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think like, I don't. My vision of a church

is always that it is the people that sort of

make up a church and like Rob, you're the sort

of head of it, of the local church anyway. Jesus

is the head of the church. Jesus is the head

of the actual church. You're sort of leading

the local church, but like we are all the church

together. Yeah. Right. And so this is not Rob's

strategic plan for Trinity. This is what we as

a community of people learning to follow Jesus

in our everyday lives are doing together. And

so like, yeah. Whatever piece of it like speaks

to you, I hope that you find some way to like

be part of that, whether that is in, you know,

serving through volunteering or financial support

or prayer support or just showing up and asking

questions, right? Like we need all of those people

to bring all of the pieces. I mean, the plan

emerged from the community. And so I think for

that reason, it'll be easier for people to get

on board and making it happen. If it had all

emerged from the mind of one person, then you

have to sell it to people. But we're not selling

anything here. We're just telling people what

you said. And I think that that'll be all they

need to hear to say, okay, that's exactly what

I was thinking. So let's get down to business.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you so much

for sitting down and chatting through this a

little bit. And thank you for tuning in to this

week's episode of Trinity Talks. If you are a

part of this Trinity family, I really want to

encourage you. Pray now. Think about what it

is that God is calling you to do as part of this

plan. And if you're not part of the Trinity family,

yeah, maybe also pray for us. We would love that.

Or yeah, find out what are the ways that God

might be calling you to grow deeper in the spaces

where you find yourself. And we will see you

again next week.