Plant a Garden, Feed Your Soul | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla and I am sitting

down here with two gardeners who are part of

our Trinity family and we're going to talk more

about gardening, about growing some flowers.

Myself, I grow some vegetables and yeah, just,

you know, how all of these bits connect to our

faith and of course to this growing season sermon

series that we're doing here at Trinity. So thank

you so much for joining me, folks. So maybe I'll

just get you to start by doing some introductions.

So you can just say your name and just tell us

a little bit about your sort of history and experience

with gardening or with farming. Maybe we'll start

right here. OK, well, I'm a fairly basic gardener.

I'm a hobby gardener, I guess you could say.

My garden is fairly small. I live in Milton.

So, you know, we try and create a garden that

brings, like, peace and looks lovely. And a lot

of our friends comment on, you know, how peaceful

they feel in our garden, which is quite an achievement.

Yeah. So that's basically at the level I operate

at. And then, in addition, I am part of the crew

that helps to maintain the cemetery. Okay. Yeah.

So another sort of peaceful space. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I think that's a really good theme to have

going, you know, peaceful, calm, lovely little

gardens. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and my background

is I was born and raised on a farm. Okay. And

a very old -fashioned farm, mixed farm, as we

called them back then. Okay. And don't think

many of them are in existence now. Okay. But

mixed from the standpoint that we had all sorts

of livestock, like cattle and pigs and sheep

and, you know, chickens and ducks and geese and

that type of thing. Yeah, a little bit of everything.

Yes, indeed. And then grew the crops to feed

them. Okay. And huge vegetable gardens. that

would do us through the winter. Okay. That was

just a given. Sure. Okay. And my grandpa was

always very proud of his turnips. Okay. Were

they particularly large or just delicious? In

his mind, and I don't know how true it is, they

were hard to grow and to grow good ones. So he

grew good turnips. Okay. Well, there you go.

I've never tried to grow turnips, so I don't

know how hard or easy they are, but I'll take

his word for it. Yeah. Yeah. And so for myself,

my dad had a... pretty large vegetable garden

um growing up and then now i actually also live

in milton um yeah and i'm part of a community

garden there so i just have a small plot um but

last year was able to grow some tomatoes and

peppers and spinach mostly um and trying it again

this year and we'll see how that goes okay so

yeah cool so when you think about you know gardening

and farming what sort of prompted you to want

to do that, like to want to start your own garden?

Or what sort of motivates you to keep doing that?

Well, my parents. I used to live and was brought

up in Guyana in South America. So my parents

had a very large garden. And they planted, you

know, they had big trees and they had ponds.

lawns and all kinds of things. Fruit trees, we'd

sit in the mango tree and pluck the ripe fruit

and eat it there and then as kids, you know.

And they had a lot of animals too. They had monkeys,

dogs, chickens, rabbits. The dog's main aim was

to try and get the monkey. Ah, okay. And the

monkey's main aim was to... To avoid the dog.

Avoid the dog. Okay. So he had a little chain

that would go up and down to his house and see

the dog coming and he'd be up there, you know.

Yes. So that was my main aim, my main inspiration.

And my three brothers also, they all love gardening

and that's the same thing. Okay. Stems from my

parents. Okay, yeah. I assume that that sort

of experience is probably quite different than

your experience now, like farming in South America

versus in Milton. Yes. Yes. Quite different.

OK. Yeah. Tropical fruits and so on. My parents

did it mainly and I was just looking at them

and they showed me a little bit about the kinds

of things that they did. Sure. But then I went

to live in England and a similar climate to here,

I guess. Right. And started there on my own,

you know, and got a house and continued over

here. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. And what about

you, Iris? Well, I think growing up on a farm,

you just have a natural tendency to want things

to grow. And I start always from the idea that

plants want to grow. Sure. And I just have to

help them along. Okay. And so I love my garden.

It's a great hobby of mine. And so it's just,

but it's... coming from a farm and just really

appreciating nature and beauty and the growth.

Sure. Yeah. Sure. So it's bringing a bit of the

farm into the country, maybe. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think for both of you,

your growing up experience of gardening or farming

is a little bit different than sort of what you're

doing now on a different scale and a different

location. But are there lessons or like things

that you think you learned when you were a kid

that sort of, you know, continue to be true,

that continue to help you in what you're doing

now? Lots of themes, I guess. Okay, sure. Things

that I've learned from gardening. Excuse me.

And one of them is, I'll continue this piece.

Yeah. Motif, peace and joy. Yeah. I have a little

quote here from a guy called William Alexander.

He wrote a book called The $64 Tomato. Okay.

Or Tomato. Yes. And he wrote, things that I remember,

witnessing childbirth, finding myself standing

absolutely alone before Da Vinci's Last Supper.

and planting potatoes on a perfect spring morning.

Okay. And so that brings to mind an old Chinese

proverb that says, plant a garden, feed your

soul. Kind of that kind of theme. And it's the

kind of thing that I hope that I get from gardening,

that kind of peace. Sure, sure. Yeah. I think

there were a lot of... lifetime lessons that

I learned by growing up on a farm. And one of

them is resourcefulness. And because when you

live on a farm, there's not a store right down

the... So you learn to make do. And so that resourcefulness

is very much a part of growing up on a farm and

experiencing that. Also hard work and perseverance.

And actually, growing up on a farm, you should

learn patience. I'm still working on that. Sure.

But it's, yeah, so it's just a marvelous way

to, I've always been so happy that I grew up

on a farm. And like you grow up, you move to

the city, you learn about the city. Don't grow

up on the farm. You never learn about that whole

farming part of it. And I think people have a

very romantic view of the farm. And I just have

great appreciation for it in all its beauty and

all its rawness. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's, yeah, I think I like what you said there,

you know, that people sometimes have a romantic

view of farms. They're like this nice place to

get away. And sure. They are. But when you live

there, it's also a little more than that, right?

It's all that hard work. Yeah, there's mucking

out the stables. Right. And teaching you patience.

Well, but I've got to go back for that. More

time. More time. Right, yes. I think it takes

us a lifetime to learn the patience that we need

for our lifetime, something like that. Like a

lot of people, if something goes wrong with a

plant, they'll want to throw it out and buy a

new one. Sure. Like winter before last, one of

our emerald cedars splits over the winter with

the weight of the snow. Two main branches split.

So do I cut this down or do I try and... heal

it. Looked up research on the internet and bought

some tape or got some tape on Amazon that, you

know, got the branches together and sort of tied

it round and then put cord round the outside

so the branches came together. And now it's one

of the healthiest of the cedars we've got. It's

survived and thrived. You have to have a little

bit of patience to wait for a year or two to

see the fruits of that as opposed to chopping

it down and putting a new one. Right. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's all of that effort

into the, like, long -term investment of things,

right? Like the point you say, you know, if a

plant is unhealthy, well, I don't know how to

fix it. We'll just throw it out and get a new

one, right? Yeah. But, like, no, there's something

about nurturing. a plant that, yeah, or, or anything,

a child, a pet, whatever it is like that, pouring

that care into, into that thing that. Build,

feed your soul. I also think that's part of the

resourcefulness. Like on a farm, if you gave

up every time something happens, like you wouldn't

even get the, like, cause there's usually too

much rain in the spring. So you can't get on

the land. And then when you do get on the land,

it turns into a drought. And there's all these

things that can happen, but you have to persevere.

And sometimes it wipes it out, but very rarely

if you just keep going, keeping at it. Yeah.

Yeah. And that caring theme, of course, is something

I was going to also mention. Yeah. And you're

giving me cues here. Glad to help. I found that

with plants that need the most care and attention,

the ones that have been most challenging are

the ones that I tend to form a bond with. If

that doesn't sound a little too weird. Sure.

And so to the extent that I give them names.

Okay, this is good. One example is we had a magnolia

in a previous house that was plagued by scale

insects, magnolia scale insects. And I never

knew what they were. I stood under it one day

and I could feel this slight shower. And I thought,

what is this? And I looked up and there was only

a little. bumps and things on the branches and

twigs. And I looked it up and apparently it's

a scale insect sucking the sap out of the tree.

Okay. And ejecting it. And if you just leave

them, the tree will die. Sure. So it took me

like three years of treatments, spring and...

during the summer and in the fall with things

like sulfur and horticultural oil and spraying

the little pests off with the hose and that kind

of thing. And Maggie, is the name I gave the

magnolia tree, rewarded us with blossoms. You

wouldn't believe, these reached up to the bedrooms

on the second floor. You could look out of the

bedroom and see this sea of pink. in the spring.

And it was just amazing. So we had quite a bond,

Maggie and me. I hope my wife wasn't too jealous.

And now you've cued me into a little story. This

is working. When our nieces and nephews were

very young, I used to always say that I talked

to my plants, and that's why they did so well.

So my niece... was married, this is over 20 years

ago now, and she gave everybody at the wedding

a little coffee cup with one little sprig in

it that was a spruce tree, literally the size

of your finger. And so I came home and I planted

it, and I moved it several times, but now this

is a big bush. And because we live on a small

lot, of course, I've kept a cup down or it'd

be covering the lot. And so I took a picture

of it, just this. recently and sent it to her

and it's this lovely bush. And she said, I bet

you talk to that plant a lot. I thought it was

so cute because she remembered me saying that.

Yeah, I think that the bit that you were saying,

you know, the book that's $64 tomato or something

like that, this made me think about, you know,

conversations that I'll sometimes have with other

gardeners in the community garden talking about,

you know, the cost of buying all of the vegetable

plants and seeds and things like that. And you

can always do this, you know, cost analysis of

like, did i get my my money's worth in vegetables

out of these plants and sometimes you do and

sometimes you don't but i think for me it's that

that's one sort of analysis but that's actually

not really what i'm doing it for it's nice if

i can get you know a pot of soup tomato soup

out of my vegetables or that sort of thing but

but it's really more about an excuse to get outdoors

and and a place where yeah i can be like tending

something and it's exciting like i i went back

to my garden yesterday to plant a couple of tomato

plants and i was like oh look all of my spinach

is like up and like there's like visible leaves

there that i could eat right like that's that's

exciting yeah even just putting seeds in the

lawn as simple as that you see these little baby

seedlings coming up you know yeah it's rewarding

you know and that That's the caring, I guess,

measuring clock, right? Yeah, yeah. Are there

any other ways that you would say your experience

in gardening has sort of helped to shape your

life or your values or that sort of thing? I

think I think more of, like, when I think of

my gardening now, it's pure joy. Yeah. But I

think it really did shape my life growing up

on a farm. Sure. And one of the things I'd say

about that is that Like when you're on a farm

of that nature, the type of farm, as I say, they're

all big now, much, much larger. But at that time,

it didn't matter how young you were, there was

always a job that somebody could do. And like

I can remember, like at five years of age, you're

old enough to carry the water to your dad or

whoever who was doing the haying. And so there's

always a job. And you felt a part of it. And

sometimes it might have been nicer not to feel

like such a part of it. But basically, there

was always something. And you were expected to

do it, but there was a reward in that. And I

think that's a lifelong business of strong, strong

work ethic. probably can be almost too strong

at times. Sure. Yeah. Sure. It's a very strong

work ethic that comes from that. Yeah. And also,

I think that sense of community and like doing

a thing together. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. When

I was growing up, like we had at that time. Like

this is way back, okay. But you had a thrashing

machine, and our family had a thrashing machine,

and then there were two other families that didn't

have, so we would all get together to do the

harvest. Okay. So there was always that joining

together of doing things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It

was very community. For sure, for sure, yeah.

And I guess simply getting close to nature. I

mean, it's a fairly obvious one. You know, gardening

is part of nature, right? Mm -hmm. And so...

You know, just being out in it, it lifts the

spirits. And, you know, things like we see wasps

as things to be avoided. Sure. We almost despise.

But then, like, occasionally we have a little

fountain in our backyard. And occasionally you

see a wasp settling down on the edge of the fountain

drinking. Yeah. And you think, wow, this is magical,

you know. And the word magic. You think it's

all nature, it's all part of nature. I always

think that you look at stuff like this, and God

is our creator. I just can't imagine people looking

at this stuff and not believing in God. Oh, absolutely.

As you say, watching those little bees drink

the water, or something as simple as that. The

other day I was looking out my window, and a

cardinal... was feeding, it was a male cardinal,

and it was feeding its young on the branch. And

I'd never seen that before, a cardinal, and it

was just wonderful. And I thought, oh, isn't

that just the most beautiful thing? Sure. And

so I think being close to nature like that, you

stop and you look at that type of stuff and realize

what a miracle all of that stuff is. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think that connects really nicely. Like

when you think about... gardening and and your

faith like are there ways that that you've seen

some like connections there ways that you know

your faith has informed your approach to gardening

or gardening has sort of enriched your faith

in some way um yeah do you want to start us off

anthony um yes uh i see gardening as kind of

a manifestation of god's work in our world okay

yeah and uh Again, I'm going to quote somebody

else. Sure. I have to read. Frank Lloyd Wright,

you know, famous architect, right? He wrote,

study nature, love nature, stay close to nature.

It will never fail you. And if you substitute

God for nature, study God, love God, stay close

to God. He will never fail you. He will never

fail you. Right. And, you know, to me, I see

it's just. A lot of people say they use the phrase,

you know, nature is my church. It's a well -used

phrase, and I really feel that, actually. Going

out in nature, you get that sense that you're

among God's work. Sure, yeah. I think also, like,

one of the fruits we always want is peace and

joy. And I'm not sure there's any place that

I feel more peace and joy than just that oneness.

than when I'm working, digging in the soil. And

like I'm one that loves to just get right in

there and it gets harder and harder to get down

at it, but still. Sure. And so I think that that's

part of it. And like there's just miracles around

you all the time. And I would see that as like

God's miracle. Sure. Yeah. So I think that that

definitely brings you close. And, you know, I

was taken with Rob saying about, you can hardly

open a place in the Bible where there isn't something

about. And so I was reading this morning in Old

Testament, Minor Prophet Haggai. Haggai? Thank

you. And even there, it was saying about seeds.

And so it is all through it. And so that's very

much a part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. And one of the things that I find is that

nature teaches you so much in the way of faith.

And one example I'll give is to do with discrimination

and race. Okay. And so it's an old story. You

may have heard of it. If a child asks you, why

is it that there's so many people who look so

differently in this world? Sure. Or why is it

that... Why can't everybody look like me? What

you can say to them is that, well, if you had

a garden, would you prefer to have a garden with

flowers of just one color? Everywhere you looked,

there was this one color in your garden. Or would

you prefer to have a garden where you had lots

of colors, red, yellow, purple, orange, white,

all kinds of colors? And usually they'll say,

I prefer the colorful garden. And you say, that's

just what God has done with the world. Yeah.

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I often just think it's

such a blessing. I mean, God could have made

this world black and white. Sure. You know, but

look at all the color. And the other thing that

I guess comes from a farm, too, is I have such

appreciation of the changing of the seasons.

Like, I feel sorry for people that don't live.

They don't get all four seasons? They don't get

all four seasons. Yes. Somebody from Barbados

was disagreeing with me that the other day. But

anyway, yeah. But yeah, so it's like every spring,

like, isn't that a miracle? Like you look out

at the world right now around us, like you just

have to go back a couple months and that was

nothing there. It was gray and covered with snow

or whatever. Yeah. So like it's a miracle every

year. And I've lived through a few seasons and

it still seems like a miracle to me. Sure. Yeah.

And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the other bit that

comes to mind for me is just like in the practicalities

of like caring for plants and like getting to

know different things. Like I remember last year

was sort of my first. independent foray into

vegetable gardening. And I planted some peas

and I planted them all. And then as they started

coming up, the instructions are, of course, to

sort of, you know, thin them out so that they

all get enough space. And I was like, that's

hard to do. pea looks so healthy. I can just

leave it right in. How can I kill this pea? Exactly.

Yes. But by the end of July, my peas had taken

over and were falling over on top of my onions.

And then my onions didn't grow because they were

covered by my pea plants. And I was like, oh,

well, maybe, maybe I should slow down. Maybe

I should follow the instructions, you know? And

yeah, just that sense of like, yeah, being attentive

to what each plant needs and the pruning out

process. Right. And sometimes we think about

that, like in our spiritual lives too, where

we're like, ah, God is, God is pruning us. This

is a metaphor that people use sometimes when

you're going through a hard time and it's like,

oh yeah, this is actually. beneficial this is

this is important even though it's hard right

i could even take that uh kyla to thinking in

terms of service like if you just keep adding

on yep and and not sort of pruning out what you're

doing in service sure that can affect everything

around you too. Yeah. Yeah. In a negative way.

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, I pruned

out some of my peas this year. Well done. Hopefully

I get a better, a better harvest. Yeah. So we've

sort of said there are lots of different stories,

lots of places in scripture where farming or

seeds or gardening sort of metaphors come up.

Are there any particular passages or stories

that sort of stand out to you folks? Well, the

obvious one is the Garden of Eden. Yeah. Right?

So, and again, I have to quote because I'm not

too good at quotes. That's all right. Remembering

quotes. Genesis 2, 15, the Lord took the man

and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it

and take care of it. So that's a very important

to me lesson for us all that we are here to take

care. of the earth we're custodians of nature

and our gardens are like many pieces of paradise

gardens of eden and we can take care of our own

little bit and that's a start but the whole world

is going through crises of you know the climate

change and that kind of thing and we really have

to do better sure yeah Yeah. Yeah. I think it's

really important. You know, we go back to the

very beginning and God, what is God's job for

humanity? It's to be gardeners, right? It's to

be stewards of the earth. And so I wonder sometimes

if that's like part of like what makes us human

is that, that maybe not necessarily the tendency

towards gardening specifically, but to like nurture

and to care and all those sorts of things, whether

that's plants or animals or people. Yeah. Yeah.

I think just to follow up on that a little bit.

So there's the Garden of Eden where we're told

to take care of. Then the curse comes. Yes. Where

we're going to work it by the sweat of our brow.

And that's all part of the fallen world and what

we see. But that's the, like gardening isn't

always just flowers and so on. It's like the

sweat of the brow. But that's a metaphor in life,

that the joy and the peace, but also the eating

the hard work. And like nature, generally, it's

not all, as you say, sweetness and light. Because,

you know, disasters that strike us, some of it

made by humans, you know, volcanoes, storms.

that can affect so many people, rip them out

of their homes and so on, the tragedies. We have

to respect nature and its power. To go back to

what I said at the beginning, I think that growing

up on a farm, I think that's what it taught me,

was the beauty of nature, but also the rawness,

and it needs to be appreciated. And respected.

And I think that, yeah. If I may, one of the

Bible verses that, because this caused me to

think about the Bible verse, and of course there's

so many, the sowing and so on. But one that came

to me that I thought was really good, it comes

from Paul when he's in the first Corinthians

chapter three, where he's talking about, he's

like reprimanding the Corinthians and calling

them immature and so on and so forth. And then

there's this verse six where he says, I planted

the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been

making it grow. And I was thinking about that.

And no matter how good of a gardener you are

or farmer, you can do all the things to help

that seed grow. But the magic and miracle of

the seed actually growing, that's God. And the

same when we're evangelizing or trying to bring

people to Christ, we can plant the seed. We can

even irrigate it and water it. But nothing's

going to happen without the miracle of God. Right.

And so to me, that was just such a wonderful

reminder of, yes, the agricultural part of that,

but also the depth of the spiritual part of that.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting to

hear these different reflections, because I think

one of the things that's standing out to me is

just like, how... this like experience with getting

your hands in the dirt with watching plants grow,

which is like, is a lesson in how God works.

Right. And is a lesson in mystery and miracle

and like these things that are really hard sometimes

to grasp or like hard to put words to, but we

can see it unfolding. Right. When you put. A

little seed in the dirt and then all of a sudden

you have a plant and then all of a sudden later

you have a flower or a fruit from it, right?

It's amazing. But isn't that what you said there,

Kyla, is right in that we can see logically what

part of it is there, but there's the mystery

of it. And that's the mystery of our faith as

well. We can see part of it makes sense. It's

logical and so on. But there's such a mystery

to it. Yeah, for sure. I think the other sort

of little story or sort of passage in scripture

that keeps coming back to me at times is Jesus

is sort of teaching about, you know, he says,

there'll be all kinds of false teachers that

show up at different points. And how do you know

a false teacher from, from a true teacher, from

someone who speaks the truth? And he says, you

know, by their fruit. Yeah. Right. Which. is

a really helpful metaphor for me because I'm

really bad at identifying trees particularly,

but like even, even other plants sometimes I'm

like, I think this is that, but maybe not, but

you know, an acorn, but I know an acorn when

I see it or I know a mango or an apple or whatever

it is. Right. And, and yeah, so you will know

by its fruit. Right. And, and so, yeah, sometimes

we have to sort of let things grow, let things

be and see. what comes out of it, right? And

then decide. Do we do we take that on? Do we

cut that down? Do we? Yeah. What do we do? Very

much brings in that parable or when Jesus cursed

the fig tree. Right. Which is a very confusing

one. It is. Yes. But part of that, it had no

fruit. It just had leaves. It looked good, but

there was no fruit on it. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. Are there

any other sort of bits from scripture or sort

of pieces of your faith that you think sort of

have helped you? navigate this this gardening

journey or that where they have sort of enriched

one another well it's an ongoing process and

sure i was heartened to hear you say about the

you know by their fruit you shall know them this

applies to nature and to people right and the

people who influence us and you see in the world

the leaders in the world yeah by their fruit

you shall know them it's the same with nature

as with people such wisdom in the bible yeah

And you mentioned about the mystery. Without

mystery, there would be no faith. And it's all,

in a way, a mystery. We just don't know. We know

so little. One of my family mottos is, nothing

in life is certain, which can be taken in all

kinds of ways, like half a dozen different interpretations.

And one of them is, don't believe you know everything.

Don't believe you know it all. There's a mystery

to everything. And Albert Einstein said this,

you know, the greatest thing in the world, he

believes, is mystery. And it's there throughout

our faith. Yeah. Yeah, and I just think that

the more that we are in touch with creation at

every level, Like right now, I don't know if

you've been observing in the sky, but Venus and

Jupiter are very close together. And they're

actually supposed to come together tonight or

tomorrow night. Last night they were still quite

a distance. And the sky has been so beautiful.

You could see it. And again, that's all part

of God's creation and nature and the wonders

of all this. And in our faith, there's just so

many wonders. Yeah. I think it's, it's so cool

to sort of go back and think God is such a God

of mystery, such a God of wonder. And you know,

this doesn't mean that we can't study and like

figure things out, right? Like that's all part

of faith too. But like at a certain point you

come back to God is all about the mystery. God

is too big for us to actually understand and

put into a box and figure out. Right. And I think,

yeah, creation reveals that to us and the things

that surprise us and the things we. Can't understand.

So it's doing what we can do. Yep. And this is

going to be an admonishment for people who buy

flowers and don't water them. Yes, yes. Because

I also have, growing up on a farm, have this

thing about waste. Sure, sure. So you're going

to buy them, water them. Yes, that's good. So

doing what we can, but then all the rest is in

God's hands. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah,

well, thank you so much, folks. Yeah, and thank

you for tuning in to this week's episode of Trinity

Talks. Whether you are a gardener or not, whether

you have experience on a farm or not, maybe you

can try planting something. Maybe you can try

finding some place to nurture growth. And may

that be a space of joy. and peace, but also mystery

and wonder for you that draws you deeper into

connection with creation and of course with Christ.

And we will see you again next week.