How Spiritual Gifts Really Work | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is

Amalvel. And my name is Ben. And we are here

to continue unpacking the Growing Season sermon

series that we've been doing this summer here

at Trinity, where we're going back to the farm

to learn what the farm has to teach us about

faith. And this week, we're talking all about

power. And particularly about, you know, how

tractors, the imagery that Rob uses, the tractor

provides the power, but then there's all of these

different implements or tools that sort of get

hooked up to a tractor, right? You get a plow

or you can get a cedar or you can get a hay baler.

I've now run out of tractor imagery, but there's

lots of different tools that you could hook up

to a tractor, but they're all powered by the

same source. Yeah. And sort of how that connects

to our spiritual life, that we are all people

who are powered by the. Holy Spirit, but for

different tasks, different gifts, different things

that we're able to do. Yeah, so as you folks

think about the sermon and sort of what Rob talked

about, were there any particular pieces that

really stood out to you? Well, I can sort of

see another analogy would be on film and television.

Yeah, you have the director, you have the cinematographer

as well, but you also have You have all the other

roles. There's plenty of roles. Sure. Even in

the cinematography department, you have lighting.

You have people using the flags and the bounce

sheet car things to deflect light. And you have

people using dollies to move in and whatnot.

And you have camera operators. And your goal

is all the same, to make the best film. So it's

just... But everybody has a role and you do your

best at your job. accomplish it. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. I think that's really helpful imagery for

people who are like, what's a tractor? Or like,

how does it work? That's the arch version of

what is a tractor. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

One of the things that always stands out to me

is the fact that everyone just has a unique role,

even if you aren't entirely sure what it is yet.

Sure. It's something that's great where everyone

will eventually get to see, oh, I actually have

really cool places to fit into stories where

I didn't think I did. Yeah. Or even And it's

just small spots, small jobs make a big, meaningful

difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I

think just like to add to that, that sense that

like every role or every spiritual gift like

matters. Right. That sometimes we think, oh,

I'm not, you know, the person up there singing

on the stage or I'm not, you know, the person

who's like reading the scripture or preaching

or like any of those like really visible roles.

But like. equally we need the camera people and

we need the like people who are welcoming and

we need the people who are making coffee right

like absolutely all of these are like we need

them all in order to make this whole thing sort

of work back into people yeah yeah i think sometimes

the most important some of the most important

roles are the ones that are accomplished so that

people don't have to think about it. Sure. You

know, like, like, for example, when we, at least

for a lot, a lot of us, when we get out of the

service, what do we do? We want to go get a coffee.

Yeah. Yes. We don't have to worry about, oh,

is the coffee made? Is there cream and sugar?

Right. Somebody has already done all of that.

Yeah. It's just there ready to go. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think to help us sort of. frame this conversation

it would be helpful first to think about what

actually are spiritual gifts um if you were to

like try and define them in some way what might

you say i think one of the things that comes

to my mind is like an unusual neck for something

unusual talent okay suddenly it's like most people

can do this but you seem to just excel here even

if you're not sure why yeah okay yeah yeah uh

well i think i i kind of looked it up what they

say that it was which is uh There's nine of them.

Okay. There's wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing,

powerful deeds. prophecy, discernment of spirits,

various kinds of tongue, and interpretation of

tongues. Okay. Don't ask me what that all means,

but that's a list. I'll take one of everything.

Yeah, and I think that's one of the lists in

Scripture. I think there's actually several places

in Scripture where there's different sort of

lists of spiritual gifts, but those are definitely

some of them for sure. Yeah, and I guess I think

of them, yeah, as... like you said like a a knack

for something or like an ability to do something

that is given to you by god to serve god's people

in some way and and that can be yeah like it

could be something like really powerful and dramatic

like healing or it could be just like acts of

service or it could be somebody who like speaks

really well or or singing right like it can be

all kinds of these different things and I think

that one of the important things to think about

spiritual gifts is that there are, some of them

are like super specific, but some of them are

like really broad, right? Like, I don't know

that I would say that somebody has the spiritual

gift of making coffee, but, but maybe they have

the spiritual gift of like service and like wanting

to be helpful. Right. Um, and, and that's something.

Like, what do you think makes that a spiritual

gift as opposed to just like a thing that I'm

good at? I think it's, I think for me, it's,

is what you're doing, helping the kingdom of

God. Okay. Is what you're doing, supporting the

kingdom of God. Right. Okay. Like even, like

even what we're doing now, we're just, you know,

we're not just doing a random podcast. We're

doing a podcast to help fellow Christians and

people wanting to, you know, get better in their

faith, you know? So. you know i guess but like

i guess it's it's hard to define like what category

that would fit into sure but maybe it's not so

much about the categories it's just as long as

in your where in your life are you supporting

the kingdom of god sure and in what way yeah

yep yeah I think it's interesting for me when

I think about what's a spiritual gift, because

I think similar along your lines of like things

that are powered by God helping out, especially

community God is even better, but also the broader

community. Yeah. But I think the question for

me comes is if all of our actions are power comes

from God. Yeah. The question is where do the

spiritual gifts specifically come in? Sure. I

think those come to basically those special talents

that you do have, where you find you able to

have a better fit or able to make more of an

impact. Right. I think if all of our power and

knowledge does help come from God, then finding

those spots where you have a little bit more

expertise might be those ways of just seeing,

oh, this is where God may be touching my life,

may be pushing me in a direction. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah. And I think, yeah, sometimes it's

about expertise. I think sometimes it's also

just about like our own passion and our own sense

of like, oh, hey, when I'm doing this thing,

like I actually feel really alive. I feel really

connected to God and or connected to this community

that I'm. part of or whatever right like i think

that's a good sort of way to think about okay

is this actually what god is calling me to do

it's ways we can feel god working through you

in it yeah yeah yeah are there other ways that

you think like things that might help us to identify

our spiritual gifts i think if it's something

that you're naturally interested in or gravitating

towards even in like even in christianity like

even when i started you know A lot of like Christian

YouTube stuff I found was more interesting was

spiritual warfare. Sure. You know, so I think

that which kind of looking it up, it kind of

is like discernment of spirits, you know, you

know. But I mean, for other people, it could

be, you know, whatever, you know, it's not it's

not necessarily. It's something that you really

do have to discover. Sure. You know, it's not,

you know. It's not something that's, and I don't

think it's something inherently known. It's just

sort of, you just have to see, okay, well. What

are you gravitating towards? Sure. Absolutely.

I think on that point, how do we discover them

is by trying things out. Sure. A lot of times,

especially growing up through school, the classic

question is like, oh, what do you want to do

for a job afterwards? The classic answer is,

I have no idea. Yeah, yeah. But by slowly trying

things out, testing, like seeing if you can volunteer

somewhere, just put yourself out there a little

bit. And that doesn't have to be extrovert. I'm

going to say hi to everyone or do everything.

But back -end stuff, too, works. As long as you're

trying things out, you get to test the waters

and see this is something you feel. Oh, no, not

that one. Oh, maybe this one. Yeah. And I think

for folks who have some level of like like leadership

or influence other people over other people,

just like inviting them to try new things with

you, I think is really helpful. Like I can think

like. Before even starting this role, I was like,

podcast. Like, maybe I guess that's part of the

job, but like whatever. But like being able being

invited into it and being able to like have this

practice and realize like, oh, this is actually

just a space where I can like have conversations

with people. Like, I really like doing that.

I'm good at conversation. Right. Yeah. I think

being in a program where it forces you to try

different avenues. Sure. Definitely helps. Like

when I was going through film and television,

first year you have to do, you have to do writing,

directing, sound. Okay. Cinematography. Doesn't

matter if you don't like it or you never want

to touch it. Cover the base. You have to, you

have to at least get a 50. Okay. Bye. You know,

right? So it's either going to be like. I hate

this. I never want to touch this or, Oh, I didn't

know I was good at this or, Oh, maybe let's explore

this. And then second year, you start to streamline

with, you know, you'll be in the writing stream

and the directing stream, cinematography stream,

that kind of editing, all that kind of stuff.

So, but it's like first year. No, you're doing

everything. Don't like it too bad. You may have.

Three miserable classes and two all good. We

got two good. We got two good. But it's designed

to be able to explore it. But also another good

thing about that, especially if you're planning

on being a director, is being able to see every

aspect of it. Sure. Because there's nothing worse

than a director with an ego that thinks they

know everything about everything. Sure. And then

they just ruin everything. Sure. They're acting

solo. They're not using the team. Exactly. People

have their gifts, but you can't have all of them.

Unless you're God. God has all of them. I think

it's important to seek out other people with

different gifts to help. with the same thing

sure yeah yeah yeah keep thinking one thing that

was popping in my head is both the ability of

like oh everyone has their gift and there's always

the cliche of like everyone's special which yes

but there's also have news of like don't disregard

anyone respect everyone but also look for ways

that other people could be a really good benefit

yeah lots of places where i'm like oh i i didn't

think that i could really help out here but maybe

i can or actually I know a friend. They would

be excellent here. Right. Yeah. And so it's great

to look out for others. Yeah. So on the flip

side of that, like, are there things that you

think get in the way of us being able to identify

our spiritual gifts? I think just busy schedules

is a big one and lots of, especially right now,

there's lots of big issues in the world where

maybe it's just the news generically reading

that or whether it's something like the economy

of going, I quick, I need to make more money.

I have to focus more on work, school, and we're

always running around. So I think a lot of times

busy schedules, it just keeps us. distracted

from looking at it or looking for others. Yeah.

Yeah. I think another factor that gets in the

way is the secular world. Sure. Everything that's

outside of our church and our Christian community,

you know, because the non -Christians are not

going to get it. Yeah. This is how it is. You

spend time with Christian community, you spend

time outside, you're like, okay, you know, there's

some things that are going to go way over their

head or they're going to discount or they're

just not going to like, get or they're gonna

try to discourage you know so i think that also

plays a factor in like like let's say you are

supposed to be someone that serves or whatever

it's like then but it's like oh but you gotta

you you know you gotta focus on making more money

or you gotta or you or you shouldn't be why are

you spending all your time with these church

people or whatever you know what i mean like

so it definitely can have a negative effect for

sure yeah i think like sort of as we've said

in a few different ways like being plugged into

christian community is like really essential

to that like discernment process right that like

as we work with other people we get to learn

okay i'm good at this and ben is really good

at that right and like let's let's each do our

things but like working together towards the

same goal right um yeah and just people who like

have the same values and like are like encouraging

you to figure out you know what what is yours

to do absolutely yeah i think it's interesting

as well you're saying the secular world often

like distracts us by focusing on the wrong thing

yeah especially depending on the people you're

talking to there are people who do accidentally

like focus on their things that aren't necessarily

essential to us but there is also some great

challenges as well from people outside the faith

too. So it's great to see both sides and have

conversations with everyone you can. Even people

you disagree with can still really have some

constructive conversations. It's great. Yeah.

And I think sometimes the things that we do outside

of church, like inform, like can equally, first

of all, be spiritual gifts. Oh yeah. But can

also like inform. how we serve in the church,

right? Like if someone is really like professionally,

like has a certain kind of skill or just like

they know, oh, hey, I really enjoy like being

outdoors and like leading people on hikes or

whatever it is, right? Then like knowing, hey,

I can like bring that into the church and like

use my passion for the natural world, use my

passion for like gathering community in a like

Christlike setting as well. Yeah. Absolutely.

It's very fun to see where all the things kind

of combine for both just experiences and the

community. Hey, there's lots of people who have

gifts. There's lots of people just with experiences

who can help other people maybe discover them,

too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So Rob talking

about spiritual gifts being powered by the Holy

Spirit. So like, what does that mean? Like, what

does that look like? Yeah. With it being powered

by the Holy Spirit. Yeah, as opposed to like

powered by me. I don't know. Powered by cereal.

Yeah, maybe. Powered by a balanced breakfast.

Exactly. I think powered by the Holy Spirit is

that it's, I think that comes down to the intention.

Okay. Like, like you can have a gift. Like, let's

say you could have, let's say you have a gift

for writing. Sure. But. Are you writing horror

stories and like things that are like very non

-Christian, very demonic? Sure. Or are you writing

for a series like The Chosen? Okay. Right. You

know, like where, where are you? Like you can

use the same gift to, to help, uh, to help be

a light or be a darkness. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So it goes to like how we then use that gift,

the direction that it's pointed towards. OK.

Yeah. What would you sort of add to that? I think

one of the nice things is having just a spiritual

gift means God's in the background. So it almost

gives it an extra bit of like support behind.

Sure. Where if I was just trying something all

solely on my own, I'm great and all, but not

that great. But having someone behind you, it

means that you have more support going forward.

There's more of like. fail safes or more people

to surround yourself with especially for community

especially in the church is really helpful for

that yeah yeah is being able to just go through

instead of just on your own strength you can

have a lot bigger and better people behind you

sure yeah you can lean more on god on the harder

times yeah absolutely and it means that like

when i get tired of using my gift because like

just because it's a spiritual gift from god doesn't

mean that i won't experience all of the like

human feelings about it absolutely i can be like

i really do love serving and serving people really

helps me feel connected to god and i'm feeling

tired and burnt out yes these can both be true

um and so like when that happens being able to

like go back and be like I'm not doing this on

my own, right? I'm doing this through the power

of God in connection with Christian community.

Like I think that first of all, helps us to prevent

some kind of burnout because I'm not, I'm not

doing it because I feel like I need to do it.

I'm doing it because this is what God has asked

me to do. And therefore. When I need to take

a break from it, God is still able to do it.

Even without me. And when I take a break, he's

still there to support me during the hard times

when I'm actually working and when I'm resting.

He can give me more of that rest that actually

lets me recover faster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So just like I think all of those pieces, just

that reminder that it does not depend on me is

super helpful. And I think a good reminder of

that is Moses. Because he had to... lead all

of his he had to lead his people yep and then

of course even then they didn't do such a great

job because it took uh 40 years to get to uh

uh israel you know yeah yeah when it's not supposed

to take that long yes right you know yes but

it's you know you know he was moses was called

by god even if at times he was kicking and screaming

about yes yeah but it's like But that in that

story, it's about you still follow through. You

still have to go. You know, it's not, you know,

just because God will bless you with the gift

or so or will give you success doesn't mean it's

going to come easy. You know, it's like, OK,

you know, God will be like, yeah, you'll be successful.

I didn't say how long it's going to take. I didn't

say how many bumps it's going to take. I didn't

say, you know, you know how much you're going

to have to go through. If you stick with me,

you'll be successful. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that's also helpful as we think

about spiritual gifts are like things that we

can grow in. Right. It's not like, oh, I tried,

you know, public speaking this one time and I

really bombed. And so therefore that cannot be

my spiritual gift. Maybe it's not. But but maybe

I need to like practice a bit. Absolutely. Like

growing up through school, I was terrible at

public speaking. I wanted to avoid it at pretty

much every cost. Sure. But as I grew up going

down some of my jobs, the best part of my job

is speaking in front of large groups of people.

Right. It becomes something that's a lot of fun

for me. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So like learning to

grow in that is super important. Yeah. Um, so

then the other piece of this sort of conversation

that's really important is that, you know, we

each have our spiritual gifts, but they all work

together. Um, right. So I'm just going to read

a little bit of the passage that we read in the

service, uh, from first Corinthians chapter 12,

1 Corinthians 12 · chapter mention

um, starting at verse 15, where it says, if the

foot should say, because I am not a hand, I do

not belong to the body. It would not for that

reason cease to be part of the body. And if the

ear should say, because I'm not an eye, I don't

belong to the body, it would not for that reason

cease to be part of the body. If the whole body

were an eye, where would the sense of hearing

be? If the whole body were an ear, where would

the sense of smell be? But in fact, God arranged

the parts in the body, every one of them, just

as he wanted them to be. And if they were all

one part, where would the body be? As it is,

there are many parts, but one body. So Paul has

been using this. body imagery to describe the

church and sort of says, OK, there's all of these

different parts. So as you sort of reflect on

that scripture passage, like what what stands

out to you? What does it tell us about how we

function and serve together? I think the thing

that comes back to me is always the helping out

with people as a team. You don't have to do anything

alone, but it's always the looking out for others,

whether they think, hey, they have some really

good strengths here or just saying, hey, I don't

know if this is my role. It allows us to both

lean on each other more and lean on God at the

same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For me,

what stands out is everybody has value and respect

everybody because they all have a part to play.

They're not there just for the heck of it. They're

there because to serve a purpose. That's one

thing that I saw that was a struggle with a lot

of people in film and television. It was a lot

of ego. OK, but then again, when you're 20, of

course, you're going to have a lot of, you know,

but it's like nobody wanted to take the lesser

role, the smaller role. Sure. Nobody wanted to

learn about that. It was all about I got to be

the big bad director. I got to be the boss. I

got to control everybody, you know, and that's

not how it's supposed to be. And you need to

be able to see, OK, if something's breaking down,

where is it and why is it? Yeah. And, you know,

how can we help? How can we, you know, you know.

Like, how can we solve that issue? You know,

you have to know all the smaller parts before

you can really understand the bigger picture.

Absolutely. If you're a big director who just

ignores a lot of the smaller aspects, smaller

parts, there's a lot of things that can go missing

and go wrong. Sure. Yes. Yeah. You need the extras.

Absolutely. The extras are very valuable. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that. Yeah, that like team bit

is another piece that's like really important,

I think, to think about. And yeah, it connects

with what you were also saying, Amovil, about

that every person has a role to play. Right.

And I think sometimes we can like. start to try

and like rank spiritual gifts and we're like

ah this is the most essential but actually like

so if you were to like look at like the church

staff team for example you might say well rob

is obviously the most important because he's

like senior pastor he does all the preaching

and like you know libby she's pretty important

because she like leads us in worship and singing

every day but actually I think and everybody

has really important roles to play. But I think

the person who holds this church together is

Mary, who's our office administrator. Right.

And she just like does all of these things that

nobody ever sees. And like when I'm like, Mary,

I don't understand what's happening. Like, where

do I find this thing? She knows. Right. So it's

like it's those each of those pieces that I think

feel so important. And I think another thing

and I and I can relate this back to. a terrible

film project that I had to be involved. Sure.

Is, uh, is you need to trust the expertise of

other people. You need to trust that they know

what they're talking about. Yeah. You know, if

they signed up for a role, they have a strong

opinion on it. Trust that they're, they're saying

it for a reason. It's not be, you know, just

because you're the director and you want this,

that, and the other thing, you know, you're not

it may not be practical yeah you have to listen

to people that say okay here's here's how you

want to here's what you'd have to do to achieve

this right here's some alternatives you know

and you just have to you know so you have to

listen to everybody in the church as well yeah

yeah you know why are things not attendance is

not as strong you know you gotta listen to people

at different aspects sure you know yeah yeah

yeah and i think it's that is trusting that God

is at work, even in the things that I don't understand.

Yes. Right. Like there are some jobs or some

things that might be happening that I'm like,

that's not my passion. That's like, if, if my

church didn't do this particular ministry, that's

no skin off my back. I don't do whatever. Right.

But trusting that God is still at work in that

thing because God has gifted certain people to

serve in that way. And that is ministering and

doing important work for somebody. Right. And,

and I don't need to understand it for that to

be valid. Yeah. Yeah. Like I wouldn't want to

be an usher, but it's, it's an important thing.

Right. You know, versus I'm sure people wouldn't

want to be a side door greeter or whatever, but

that's also important. Yeah. Making the coffee.

That's important. Yeah. Being, you know, be preparing

the communion wine and doing with all of that.

That's important. Yeah. It doesn't have to be,

you don't have to do all of it, but you have

to. You have to have people that are willing

to step up and do that. Absolutely. This thing

is funny. Going back to your saying where you're

trying to like ranking people where they stand

or just doing tier lists is the classic thing

where people tier lists say, oh, this is the

best or this is the one we need. But whenever

you do a tier list, it oftentimes feels like

we forget that, oh, wait, all of the parts are

needed. All of them are important. Yeah. Even

the ones at the bottom, you don't have them.

It all tends to just fall apart. Right. So even

if some parts might end up having a more important

role for some bigger roles, maybe. Right. We

still need everyone. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Yes. I still need both of my ears, ideally. Ideally.

People function without them. You can. Yes. Good

for them. I would like to keep both of my ears.

We can function without ears. We're just usually

better off if I can hear. Yes. Hearing tends

to help. Yes, yes, yes, for sure, for sure. So

then what are some of the ways or some of the

things that you think sometimes get in the way

of Christians sort of seeing themselves as this

one body with many gifts? Do you think that's

something that comes naturally to us or are there

challenges there? I think sometimes isolation

in some sense is a big thing for that. Whether

that's big or small, sometimes it's just doing

stuff too often by yourself or in a small, really

close -knit team where you're too focused on

just what you're doing. You don't see the broader

picture. Or if you are genuinely isolated and

you don't get to see a lot of people, then you

don't get to see all the influence that they

have. So it feels like you're just focusing on

only you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

I think it also depends on did you grow up in

a Christian community or did you come to Christ

later on? Okay, okay. Because self -worth can

be a factor as well. Sure. Like if you don't

value yourself, I don't want to volunteer. I'm

not going to be good. I'm just going to sit at

the back of the church and hum along a little

bit, you know? Sure. You know, right? Yeah, yeah,

yeah. You've got to sort of like build that up.

uh church community if you haven't seen you know

christ's love in in the congregation you're not

you know you're not going to be as willing to

be like okay you know let me try even if it doesn't

work i'm not going to be crucified for it you

know yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's

a really fair point that like, yeah, seeing other

people serve in lots of different ways in enables

us to like see ourselves in different roles.

Right. Like not everybody's going to be like,

Oh yeah, I really want to do, I really could

do like the stuff that is really super visible

though. Like Rob stuff or the Libby stuff or

whatever. Right. But like, Oh, I could stand

at a door and say good morning to people as they

walk in. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's just

interesting as well, whenever I think that the

gifts and how we're going to use them to help

out the others. Yeah. Whenever we start to think,

oh, I can do it a little bit better than others,

we get to focus a little too much on, oh, why

can't I do it better? I think this. And then

the moment you see someone else try and not do

it the same way you do. Yeah. A lot of times

I feel like we get really focused on, oh, OK,

I think I'm just better at this part. Yeah. Where

oftentimes instead of saying, oh, I'm better,

sometimes. really good to take a step back and

think oh how can i actually help this person

learn oh we can do this together right or it's

those times go okay i didn't do that well i can

take a step back and try and just review i think

a little bit of reflection can go a long way

and try to help see the bigger picture and see

Where are parts where I can improve and where

are parts where I need help? Sure. And like sometimes

just recognizing that like the way that someone

did something might just be different. Yes. It's

maybe not better or worse. It's just different.

And, you know, this is not always true. Sometimes

there is a better and a worse way to do something.

But yeah, I think the other thing that came to

mind for me as you were saying that was like

as soon as I start comparing myself to other

people and saying, oh, well, I did that so much

better. Like, oh, well, Ben did that so much

better. And therefore, I'm like. terrible we're

forgetting that it's the spirit that empowers

those gifts right i didn't do better or worse

because i it as if it all depended on my ability

right like maybe i did better or worse because

i was like relying or not relying on the spirit

of god in something right like and this brings

me to a whole other thing where like okay if

Sometimes I wonder if like the like visible markers

of success are actually not the most important.

Right. Right. That like I could do my job really

well and, you know, people could feel really

welcome at church or whatever the job is. But

if I was doing that for myself to make myself

feel really good, is that success versus if I

was doing that because I. believe that God loves

and values each of these people and wants them

to feel welcome in this space. Absolutely. That's

one of the things I think is a lot of the visible

things aren't necessarily as important. Not that

they're not important as always, but sometimes

it's, I think to finance for some of this, if

you have a business that's booming where everyone's

always flying to your doors, of course you're

doing really well. Yeah. There's also a lot of

places that are just really good at managing

their money and make sure, okay, I'm being smart

with how I like steward the resources that I

do have. Sure. And that's of the resources that

make it way more productive than sometimes the

big flashy stuff. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For

sure. Well, and then going back to your example,

Kyla, I think it's like, if you're doing it for

yourself, eventually that's going to fall apart.

Sure. Because you're going to have bad days or

whatever. Yep. You're going to be like, I don't

feel like doing this today. Yeah. But it's like

when you realize what the importance of your

gift or your position is, that will carry you

through. Like for me, you know, being a side

door greeter, especially at the end of service,

you know, I'm not as fond of it because sometimes

you're waiting 20, 30 minutes because somebody

needs the elevator, but they're chatting away

or whatever. But you're there to provide a service,

you know. And you just got to also remember that

there's times where there could be a lot of nonsense

or negative things happening in your life. Sure.

But you get to that door, you stand there at

the door that you have to let that go. You have

to get that has to be wiped away, you know, because,

you know, I mean, for one thing, for being a

greeter, you know, everybody has their first

day at Trinity Church. Yeah. You know. If your

first day there, someone's miserable. Yeah. Yeah.

Welcome. Whatever, you know, or just like they're

texting on the phone, you know, that's not welcoming,

you know, right. You know, but it, you know,

you want to be, and again, it doesn't matter

what you're going through. Somebody could be

having a really horrible day. People, I mean,

people come to the church at their lowest moments.

So if their first interaction with you is. Oh,

this gentleman or woman was nice. You know, that's

helpful. That that's something important. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And therefore that

reminder that everything that we're doing is

both powered by God's spirit and for the benefit

of Christ and the church. Right. That, yeah,

I think both of those are really important sort

of pieces to keep in mind. Yeah. So as you think

about this idea of the whole church being one

body with all of these different gifts, are there

any is there anything else that sort of stands

out to you? Are there ways that you think we

as a church can do better at reminding each other

of that, of holding each other up? I think like

especially when people trying to find people

with gifts. Yeah. I think it's important to to

to ask multiple people like, OK, if you're not.

going to be if you don't volunteer who do you

know that could right who do you think that could

be good at this job you know you know it's like

even when like the first time i did the podcast

series it was like i didn't volunteer it was

yeah it was uh like i didn't say yeah like uh

you know it was sally that suggested and i said

well it's like i don't know what i'm i don't

know if i'll necessarily do a good job but i'll

give it a shot i'll do it you know same with

being a side dirt greeter yeah that was or being

a you know that wasn't like oh boy i want to

do that it was like it's being a part of my role

now yeah you know you just sometimes it's because

it's it's harder to look outside yourself and

evaluate yourself For sure. It's easy to be like,

okay, Ben is really good at this. He should be

doing that. Sure. Yeah. Ben's like, are you crazy?

Like, you know, but you gotta be like, it's sort

of like, you gotta like, uh, you know, encourage

people and then they have to be like, I'll give

it a shot. Yeah. Yeah. It could come back and

be like, wow, that was horrible. Never again.

Or it could be like, you know what? This was

really good. I didn't realize I was really good

at that. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. It's

like this whole. invitational sort of culture,

right? Where we say, okay, somebody needs to

do this role. Oh, actually, I know somebody who

might be really good at that. Even if they don't

think they're good at it yet, right? Yeah. Absolutely.

That's where I get to say, like, thank you, Sally

and the team. I think Trinity does a really good

job of getting people involved, especially, I

think, back to some of the, I think it was a

volunteer fair where we had a whole bunch of

different stations say, hey, could you come here,

check it out, see if this might be a good fit?

I think those are ways we just engage the community,

say, hey. Test it out. Try it out for a little

bit. But it gives you those options where you

can see all the places where you could volunteer.

For sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you

so much, guys. Yeah, I think this has been really

helpful to unpack what spiritual gifts are, how

it sort of works in the world. But then, yeah,

also just really emphasizing this team value

and team sort of culture, right? That every part

of the body matters and that we all get to do

that and be part of it. And thank you for tuning

in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. I

hope that. Yeah, you are able to find your fit.

You're able to find that place that brings you

life where you can serve from the spirit of Christ

in you to serve the body of Christ around you.

And we will see you again next week.