How to Find Your People | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. My name is

Amalvel. And my name is Ben. And we are here

to continue talking about the Growing Season

sermon series, where we are going back to the

farm to learn what the farm... has to teach us

about faith and today we're talking about the

power of community on the farm and how you know

farmers generally aren't out there doing it all

by themselves whether they have you know hired

hands or they have family or they have neighbors

there's all kinds of people who like pitch in

to sort of make that farm work and yeah get get

all its farming done um Yeah. And so in our sermon

today, Rob talked to us about, yeah, this idea

of, you know, the farm, but also then how in

our own lives, we were never meant to live life

alone. Right. That even like if you go back to

Genesis, the very first thing that God says is

like, you know, it's not good for this man to

be alone. They need someone to sort of be with

them. Yeah. So I'm just wondering, as you guys

sort of reflect on the sermon and all of the

passage and things like that. Was there one piece

that like really sort of stood out to you? I

get to say the classic big piece, which is we

are better together. Yeah. Especially right now

in a world that seems a little bit more divisive

as of late, especially through politics or honestly

on a lot of different issues. Sure. But politics

is the main one that comes to mind. But when

we divide ourselves, we aren't as strong. But

when we're able to connect even with each other,

even if it's across political lines, to have

those more meaningful conversations and even

just help each other out, be willing to interact

with people, help each other and talk through

things. really makes a big difference yeah we're

not meant to do it solo yeah yeah yeah for sure

for sure and what about you a marvel uh what

stood out is the the benefits of having community

and the fact that you really you know it does

it is it is a beneficial thing and especially

i mean sometimes that can be a bit challenging

to come across like especially if you're a loner

usually like for me like that's how i grew up

you know i was always like the one that Didn't

really have friends. Wasn't, like, the social

guy. Didn't want to be the social guy. Sure.

You know? So me, myself, and I was plenty, thank

you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I

had that one best friend, and that was it, you

know? But definitely, especially when things

get challenging, it's nice to be able to have

community. It's nice to have people that you

can turn to and talk to. And I think sometimes

you don't really discover it until... You're

with a religious community. OK. Sometimes, you

know, like like as a Christian community where,

you know, we may come from different backgrounds,

but Christ embedding our lives to Christ is what

ties us all together. Right. You know, versus

if you're, you know, just growing up in the public

school system or or whatever, you know, you have

people of other faiths or different faiths or

don't believe anything or whatever, you know,

it's. And yeah, okay, diversity is our strength

and whatever. But at the same time, you also

want to be able to have something that unifies

you. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think

it's that like, so there's this verse in, in

this passage in Ecclesiastes four, and that we'll

maybe talk about later, but where it says, you

know, that like two is better than one, but like

a cord of three strands is not easily broken.

Right. And so taking this and be like, yeah,

you and me and like us as, as a human community

together is really good. But when we introduce

Christ into that, it just like strengthens and

deepens that relationship. Like so much more.

Yeah. Yeah. And just go back. to your point as

well as someone who grew up in the public school

but also in the church i think it's really fascinating

where you can have communities in both places

yeah with lots of great benefits to both but

what the church does that's so like amazing is

it really unifies people so effectively there's

rarely been a case where i've come to a church

and not have people immediately come up like

hey right willing to join in conversation talk

with you Whereas if you just like walk into a

public school and say, hey, I'm here, you might

get a few people just staring. Like, hey, nobody

cares. It's like, let's get in and go to talk

with the people. It's a little bit different.

That's where the power of Christ is bringing

people together is really meaningful. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think especially when people are willing

to like really lean into that. Right. That people

are really willing to sort of say, hey, there

are lots of different differences here. Right.

There's lots. people from different backgrounds

and experiences and language and ethnicity and

genders and whatever. Right. But like Christ

holds us all together and they're willing to

sort of say, Hey, because you're here, like looking

to follow Jesus, learning, looking to learn about

Jesus, like let's figure it out together. Absolutely.

Yeah. And it's where you can learn stuff from

like other people of other backgrounds. You get

to learn from them, but it's also one of the

places you get to share Christ as well with others.

Yeah. So it's great to like, I can learn stuff

from you, but also. if I'm only ever around Christians,

I never get to share my faith as well with others.

Right. So yeah, great duality. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

for sure. So when you think about this sort of

message of community and like, you know, needing

each other and that sort of thing, do you think

that that really sort of is mirrored in like

our culture's values and beliefs? Or is it sort

of like opposed in some way? I think when it

comes to mental health, people are really starting

to come back to community. But I think as well,

you know, especially even with the pandemic after

and all that. The thing is, is that a lot of

people have online communities. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And really that for me, I'm not a social guy.

You know, I'm more of an introvert, but even

me. If I'm going to have interactions, I need

it. It has to be face to face. Sure. You know,

like honest, like, OK, like we could have this

podcast on different screens, you know. But I

mean, it's not the same as being face to face.

You know, there's no lagging. There's no nothing.

Nobody's cutting out or anything like that. Yeah.

And I mean, I think it's just it's like I think

we just have to remember to go back to the roots

of before, you know, the interconnected world,

really. I mean, sure. But I think it's a generational

thing. I always like to say it's like when I

grew up playing video games, if there was a two

-player game, you and that person have to be

in the same room. There's no online play. It's

like you sit here, I sit there, and we have fun.

Now everything is online this, online that, online

communities. I guess it can work for some people,

but you know, I just find like there's more joy

when it's everybody's together in the same room.

And I mean, that's also where you can develop

humor that way because everything is, it's fast

paced. It's you're reactive, you know? Sure.

And you get to read the people a lot better.

It's way easier to read like body language when

you can see them. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think you're right that there are

some ways that like, yeah, our culture. is sort

of moving towards a bit more independence or

yeah sort of away from traditional ideas of community

i do think online community works well for some

people and like for them it's great i'm sort

of in a similar boat where like i would much

rather chill with people face to face but yeah

that's i don't know that's my experience like

i get both camps and i have multiple friends

who i've like barely ever seen in person if ever

and i get to hang with them like weekly and have

tons of phone online But it's a different in

a different relationship in that sense. Sure.

Great friends. But I actually don't know what

you look like. Yeah. Versus in person. I get

to come in and I see all the friends, whether

it's here at Trinity or just playing with my

twin. Hey, awesome. Let's go play at the park.

Let's go run. It's a very different dynamic.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you think about

like our culture and that idea of like. Interdependence

versus independence. Like, yeah, where do you

see the tensions and mirrors? Some of the tensions

I get to see is both in different cultures. I

think in our culture, it's much more individualistic,

where we're a lot more focused on the individual

being self -sustaining, just like that lone farmer

myth. Whereas I think as we're slowly realizing,

hey, being alone seems really not great for mental

health. Yeah. We're slowly coming back to, OK,

connection actually does have a lot more benefits.

And in my practice or in my schooling for psychology,

a lot of people, there seems some psychologists

who say we only really heal when we're actually

connected with others. Right. It's very hard

to heal just on your own. Sure. Yeah. So that

I think that's really interesting to think about,

like the mental health side and the like. that

healing is only really possible in community,

because I think a lot of people would react to

that and say, well, community was what hurt me.

Yes. Right. Like other people are the problem.

Absolutely. Right. I was doing fine. Sort of

a double edged sword, really. Yes. It's about

like finding the right. group of people yeah

you know who you surround yourself with matters

yeah so how do you think we like navigate that

tension of like okay people are sometimes the

problem people are also the solution to the problem

people are the place of healing like What does

it look like to navigate that tension? Some of

the things that I think about is like you, people

will say you have your circles, you have your

people. Yeah. And you can interact with all sorts

of people. But I think it's good to both have

a home base of a support group, like a life group

or people who you can really trust. Sure. But

also still be able to interact with others, try

to have like more diverse conversations, more

challenging conversations. If there's situations

where it's not really the healthiest, then I

think it's the ability to say, hey, I can respect

you as a person. You're made in God's image.

That's awesome. I'm going to respect you just

at a slight distance. Sure. You know, they're

happy to interact in pleasantries and conversations.

But if it's not healthy, then there's ways of,

OK, how can we distance just a little bit? Sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Or that's where you kind of put on

your own mask kind of a thing, because it's like,

you know, there's different ways of, you know,

like. For example, if you're in sales or interacting

with customers, you're going to be one way versus

if you're with your friends versus with your

family. But sometimes you have to treat that

as well when it comes to groups where you're

polite, you're respectful with certain people,

but you also have a core people like these are

my people. I can definitely relate because...

While I am Christian, most of my family is not

Christian. Gotcha. On both sides of the family.

And on my mom's side of the family, they're pretty

much Muslim. Okay. So, you know, even when there's

get togethers in my house or whatever, you know,

it's a whole bunch of Muslims. So, you know.

A little bit more diversity. So, you know, I

have to interact and be respectful and be Christlike

and all of that. Yeah. But. I find my joy when

I come to church. That's my people. Yeah. You

know? Yes. My like group. That's my people. Mm

-hmm. You know? The rest of the time, it's just

sort of, you just do the best you can. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of

the idea of being a good ambassador. Mm -hmm.

The point of ambassador is to, like, go to the

other places and speak well on their behalf,

but you also still have a home to go back to

at some point. Yeah. And it is challenging because

it's like, there's things that come up in my

life that, you know, like, I don't want to, like,

I don't want to say because they're not going

to understand. They're not going to care. For

me, I'm still looking for work, but I'm trying

to make it so that I'm still able to attend my

life group on Wednesday and still be able to

go to church on Sunday. So I can't be like, well,

the job mark is not that great because all these

jobs don't work for me. They're not going to

care or they're going to say, oh, maybe you're

making excuses or whatever. i can't interact

in that way so you just sort of like in some

ways you gotta sort of like compartmentalize

sure and yeah and you need to find the right

group of people that you can be fully honest

with and that you can be like yeah here's all

of the things that i'm trying to work through

and who ideally come from a same or a similar

set of like values and ways of thinking about

the world that yeah that can help you through

that so that they're not like oh well you should

just try it this way you're like oh do this thing

that like you wouldn't feel good about Right,

right. Yeah. It's like when the priorities and

values are very different, it leads to be very

hard to get proper advice that you feel good

about and actually act on. For sure, for sure.

Hard to feel understood or valued. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah. So then in like Christian community,

sometimes we, yeah, we talk about this sort of

word of like Christian community or we talk about,

you know. folks who like do life together or

like that sort of a thing so okay this all sounds

cool what what does that look like like what

does it mean to be in community with other people

i i think for me it just means it does it means

that like if you have the opportunity to go out

somewhere it doesn't have to be a christian event

but you're you're surrounding your your circle

that you're around is christian okay so you know

again you don't have to be like oh well i'll

only go out if it's uh uh some christian artist

is performing then i'll go out with you know

it's like sure you can just be like uh you know

let's go to a coffee shop and have and hang out

or there's uh you know there's a free barbecue

in the park let's go and hang out you know sure

is that you're just it's just a man it's just

I think when you're living in the Christian community,

I think what it means is that you're able to

be as open as possible. Because again, there

are things that happen in your life or things

that come up that you're like, I want to say

something, but I can't. And if it's a good Christian

community, you should be able to say anything

and everything. Sure. Yeah. yeah you may be challenged

on it but it's the idea that they're able to

listen and not just judge you entirely for it

yeah guide you so it's the guide them gently

shepherd the people don't just yell up yes and

i mean obviously as christians sometimes we have

different competing views on the things you know

yeah There's so many theories about, everybody's

got a theory about the revelation and times and

pre -trip, strip, rapture. Is there anything

like that? Who gets into heaven and all this

kind of stuff. But the fundamentals are the same.

there's the common ground being able to help

each other out where we can challenge where we

can and we'll learn from each other even through

the disagreements yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure

um what about for you ben like when you think

about like what does christian community look

like what would you sort of say To me, it looks

a little bit more mundane than you might expect,

but it just feels like Christians leaning on

other Christians. Whether that's day -to -day

interactions, just saying, hey, how was your

day? Or catching up with people. Or it's when

people start to go through hard times, being

able to ask for help or lean on it. Or notice

someone else might want a little extra help or

need something. Right. It's not just doing everything

solo, then coming to church, saying hi, and then

go home. yeah we can all interact and actually

like help each other through daily life so whether

it's coming in just saying hey life group just

being with each other just simply being there

with someone is really helpful or if you need

challenging questions needs a answer to say i

don't really know what to do here or i had something

hard come up having people have your back and

be able to support you is really big and so especially

if you come under faith together have that connection

to underlie it just makes it them stronger yeah

yeah yeah and that like requires that's like

costly and like risky i think right because it's

it's so easy for us to just be like oh i'll just

come to church like do the church service thing

yeah maybe get my coffee and cookie and like

hide in the corner and then just like be like

no i'm gone right but like to be like no i actually

want to like stop and and like build relationships

and like ask people about their life and allow

people to ask me about my life yeah right like

that that's risky engage in both ways yeah yeah

yeah yeah um but i think it's so worthwhile when

you can do it really well right like i yeah i

just think about different communities or like

groups of people that i've been part of in different

moments of my life and just having Somebody that

I can just go to and be like, hey. This was a

terrible day. And they were like, yeah, that

sounds bad. Want to go like get some ice cream?

Yeah. Right. It makes it much better. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Or just, yeah, those people who can be

like, yeah, that sounds really hard. Or like,

yeah, like let's like talk through this complicated

thing together and like just having a sounding

board for some of that. Absolutely. Yeah. Especially

with having a community like training where you

have a lot of people. Yeah. It's even better

because you get to have like good friends and

people who connect with really well. But there's

also all sorts of people with expertise. and

backgrounds were like, hey, maybe I'm having

financial troubles. Maybe there's someone here

who's good at finance. Hey, maybe I have a question

about like theology. Oh, I think Pastor Rob might

be okay with that. You can have people with all

sorts of expertise that you can lean on and ask

for help. It's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

And I think the other thing that comes to mind

for me is like sometimes people will think about...

christian community and they'll like make it

into this whole big thing that it that it can

be right like there's such a thing as like intentional

christian communities where people are like yeah

we're gonna like live together and we're gonna

like share all of our meals and pool financial

resources and that's super cool and like great

for the people that that works for but like that's

not the only way to do christian community not

the only way yeah right that like being part

of a life group showing up on sunday morning

just like being like hey let's go out for coffee

with just like one or two other people like that

is also sort of Christian community, I think.

Yeah. Even if I'm playing online video games

with friends who are still Christians, that's

still a Christian community. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Totally bad. For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think

sometimes, though, it's like, I wonder how well

we're doing as a community compared to other

communities. Okay. Because it's like, I've heard,

like, I've heard of, like, Muslim communities

and Hindu communities where there'll be a mosque

or a temple. Mm -hmm. And... The people that

are in the neighborhood are all of that community.

So they all walk over together. They all commune

together. You know, they're all interacting.

You know, your neighbors are of the same faith.

You know what I mean? And so it's like, do we

have really that in our community? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that level of community, like also

I think is requires a different kind of. culture

and ethos in some extent that doesn't always

translate i think in especially in urban western

environments maybe this is my you know small

town rural bias coming out but like yeah i think

it's i think that is so good but also so much

easier to do when everyone lives next door to

each other and like when the whole community

is of the same faith and like all investing in

the same particular sort of expression of that

i think when it comes to christian community

i think what's important is okay yeah you know

obviously in a perfect world you'd go to church

everybody's the same faith everybody's christian

everybody right That's not reality. Maybe like

50 years ago or something when people actually

closed on Sundays and didn't, you know, but it's

like, you know, it's like, okay, you're not expected

to necessarily go out into the world and always

be around Christians. You may be the only Christian

in your work environment or whatever, but you

got to have a basis to come back to. That's what

that's what's important. For sure. And that's

why sometimes it can be frustrating, you know,

even for me where it's like, I'll have a great

day. I'll be with my community. I'll have a really

good time. I really feel good. And then I'm coming

back to a house that's not Christian. Yeah. You

know, so it's like. Yeah. So it's being able

to have a basis to come back to. For sure. For

sure. It's kind of like introverts and extroverts,

but with communities. Yeah. I like it, but it

does drain me. Whereas this one, I just get refreshed.

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. So the passage that

Rob read with the sermon was from Ecclesiastes

chapter four. So I'm just going to read part

of it here for us, starting at verse nine. Two

are better than one because they have a good

return for their labor. If one falls down, his

friend can help him up. But pity the man who

falls and has no one to help him up. Also, if

two lie down together, they will keep warm. But

how can one keep warm alone? Though one may be

overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord

of three strands is not quickly broken. Um, so

in this passage, it gives us this whole sort

of list of benefits of having other people around,

you know, the, you have two people, you have

a good return for your labor. They can sort of

help you get back up when you fall down, you

stay warm, you can defend yourselves and overpower

your enemies. So when you think about those lists

of benefits, is there one of them that like stands

out to you more? Uh, I think for me it would

be, uh, when one falls, you pick them up. Okay.

That's just, I mean, that, I mean, that's, Cause

I mean, at the end of the day, that's what you,

you, you want. I mean, obviously you, in your

darker times, you want to, you have to rely on

Christ and God, but it's also nice to be able

to have somebody physically there that you can

turn to, you know, especially if it's like a

mentor who can both physically or just figuratively

lift you up. Yeah. Because I think we all get

into, and it's, that's why it can be frustrating

with life is because, you know, We get into these

frustrations and sometimes you open up to somebody

and they're not going to tell you what you want

to hear, or they're going to tell you something

that is like, well, you're not being helpful.

You're not being supportive, you know? And it's

so it's like, that's why it's important to also

be with a good Christian community. You know,

sometimes it's not like, you know, it's like,

maybe, you know what the solution is, but it's

like, okay, well, Sometimes it's just good to

be able to have somebody to be like, I hear you.

I understand. I've been there. Or, hey, I know

this is tough, but you're going to get through

it. Right. Versus, well, you just got to keep

going. Or, well, that's what you just have to

do. It's like, okay, yes, thank you, Captain

Obvious. But that's not what I want to hear.

Yeah, for sure. Classic joke in psychology was

your therapist just says, just stop doing it.

Just stop it. Don't be depressed. Don't be anxious.

Oh, is that all? That's all. Yeah, apparently.

Super simple. But what they found is way more

effective is a lot of therapists just sitting

or being with the people. Just being able to

be authentic with the person, sit there, and

help them slowly figure out the answers for themselves,

not just say, oh, it's this. Oh, you're just

doing it wrong. Right. It's way more beneficial.

Yeah. Support rather than just advice. Yeah.

For a while, especially in psychology, people

were very good at giving advice. And doing not

much support. Sure. So it's great to see we're

learning, okay, support, it does help. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Way more. Yeah. Yeah. What about

for you, Ben? Is there one of the benefits that

stands out to you? I think making it worth the

toil is a big one for me. Yeah. One thing that

I get to look at, especially with some psychology

stuff that I've been looking at, is there's a

big kind of lack of purpose for a lot of people.

Sure. Where some people just go, I don't really

know what to do with my life or where to go,

especially if things are poor, like the economy

is not great. i don't really know what religion

they follow because i think none according to

like no religion is one of the most uh fast growing

really religious groups yeah um so it's finding

out okay where's the purpose where's the meaning

in some of this i don't just want to get up go

to work work like my butt off to come home make

dinner and then go to sleep and then repeat the

whole thing yeah where's the purpose and where's

the meaning right and so having that community

be able to work through it together and have

like a reason to do it is really, really valuable.

I think I get to see a little bit of that in

like little kids, especially in parents. Yeah.

You get to come home to your little one. That

seems like a way more valuable experience. Like,

hey, I got to come home, see my kid. They're

smiling, get to support them. That makes work

meaningful. Whereas if I'm just sitting at home

doing it all for myself, it kind of makes it

not feel so purposeful. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. No, I think that that sense of meaning

is definitely really important. I think the piece

that stands out for me is this idea of like,

you know, when two people are together, you can

like warm each other up. You can like stand up

against the cold. And like Rob talked about that

in the sermon as being like, you know. you want

people who can like help you get back up when,

when you fall down, but sometimes you can't get

back up. You just have to like endure the storm.

Right. And even then it's still better to have

people to endure the storm with. Yes. Right.

Um, and who maybe aren't experiencing it exactly

the same way you are. And like, maybe that's

better that they're not experiencing it exactly

the same way you are, but who are committed to

being present and like showing up and just being

like, yeah, this sucks, but at least it doesn't,

you don't have to like sit in that by yourself.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that is really

sort of important. Um, even in psychology, one

thing that we look at is the role of friends

where it's like, if you're a friend, your job

isn't to like be the therapist for your other

person who's going through a hard time. Right.

That's a therapist job. Your job as friends,

just be there for them. Yeah. Help support where

you can. If you can't support, you don't have

answers. just walk through with them you don't

have to fully understand you just have to be

there yeah you have to be able to say how can

i help you right not uh here i'll help you it's

like it's like okay maybe i don't need that help

but it's like you know or you know a good example

is when people go through mourning a loss of

somebody yeah or even on an anniversary you know

of a death or whatever your job should be do

you want me around do you want us to go out yeah

do you want what do you want do you want how

how can i help you you know i'm here just let

me know how i can help best yeah yeah you want

to be alone good okay fine you know that's fine

i'll give you space yeah you want to go out for

dinner fine you want to go to a movie fine you

know yeah but you you the mourner controls the

as the has the ball sort of yes that's the you

know that's the pace yeah yeah yeah and to sort

of go back to like what you were saying earlier

on marvel but like helping people up um so one

of the things rob said in the sermon was like

in a time of crisis we should not just be offering

advice we should be offering sort of practical

support um so yeah what what do you think that

looks like and like why do you think people often

try to go for advice rather than support I feel

like sometimes if you give advice, you can do

that from afar. You don't actually have to be

there. Yep. Yep. You don't have to get like into

it. You're like, you gotta be like, you can be

like, oh, that sucks. Yeah. Well, uh, here's

what I would do. Bye. You know? Right. You know?

Yep. Are you depressed? I hear going for walks

helps. Yeah. No, no. Don't talk to me about your

depression. Just go for a walk. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Am I going to join you? No, but you, no, but

you got this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It, it,

yeah, it, it like really, This is a sense of

responsibility and keeps us like a safe distance

away. Like keep your stress or your sadness or

your anger over there. It teaches us how to detach

and say, like, I can support from afar, but I'll

be too detached. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Was what

we're talking about is more that Christian community,

the supports that stays with them during it.

Right. Or with advice, you can be like, have

you tried this? Have you tried that? Have you

tried that? Right. And then it's like, what do

you get? No, no. You're yes. Yes. All the time.

It's like, well, then. I got nothing. Bye. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So why do you think it's important

for us to maybe sometimes offer advice, but to

pair that with offering support? Like what what's

the benefit of doing it that way? The benefit

is advice can still be good. It's just often

feels like impersonal. Sure. But having support,

you can actually give advice like, hey, I know

you're struggling with this. I've actually found

this way works really well for me and it might

work for you. Let me walk through it with you,

support you the whole way. Sure. I'm there if

you need me. I'm there for help. I'm there to

guide if you need that. Yeah. But it's way more

personal. It helps you to just go through the

hardships together as a unit bearing the burden

rather than just having one person bear it all

alone. Sure. Yeah. A good example of that would

be with the Alpha program that we have. Because

even in our life group, we had for the series

in Alpha, we were missing like... two or three

people but that's because they were there to

support new people going through the program

right you know so sometimes that's you know it's

like hey i've been you're right hey i've been

there let me walk you through this yeah It's

the benefit of having that life group where you're

able to come back to your home group, but also

still go out and help others. Yeah. Yeah, for

sure. Yeah. I think another thing that comes

to mind for me around that is just that like

sometimes people are so overwhelmed with things

that like they actually need the support before

they can take your advice. Yeah. Right. Like

I think like practically like, you know, if we

think back to like in terms of grief and like

things like that, like sometimes people don't

need you to like be like, oh, yes, this. is how

to make it better they need you to feed them

right or they need you to just like make sure

that the kids are taken care of or like whatever

the situation is yeah like that practical support

enables them to be able to like listen to whatever

comes next but if they're so overwhelmed with

all of the like practical bits and details then

like your advice is just It's going to fall on

deaf ears. Yeah. If someone's being crushed,

the goal is not to say, oh, just lift better.

Use your back. Help get them out first and then

we can work on that later. Don't worry. Bend

your knees. It'll be fine. You got this. Put

some elbow grease in. Here, let me help you.

You know. Yeah. Just bad form. Yeah. Yes. Yeah,

for sure. Yeah. Anything else you'd sort of add

to that? If you think about like advice and practical

support and how they work together. I think it

works together as well because it's, if you actually

go and support someone or try to support someone,

hopefully they'll return that to, when you need

it, you know? Like, I think it's just like, you

know, if you're going through a dark period,

do you need advice or do you need people around

you? Right. You know? And especially because,

again, sometimes the advice is it's like, well,

yeah, of course, you know, you know, or it's

like obvious. This is obvious. I know this, but

that doesn't help me. You know, do better is

great, but that's not really actionable. Yes.

You know, I think it's like even I mean, I haven't

read it, but like I think like like when C .S.

Lewis, I think when it was his wife that passed

and people were trying to be comforting to him

and, you know, and it was all like. it fell on

deaf ears because it's just it's like you know

oh you'll see her again yeah i know that you

know oh you know oh she's in a better place yeah

i hope so but you know i mean it's like that

doesn't help me pay the bills it doesn't help

me get through like yeah the next couple of times

you know yeah yeah for sure for sure yeah and

i think that sense of mutuality and like i help

you you help me and like that's not obviously

why we're in it exactly but it like is a benefit

of it for sure right that like yeah it builds

this safe space where people can begin to be

real with each other and that then when you bring

your realness and you're like, this is not great

guys. And like people can jump in and help you

with that. And I think that inspires us to then

go and help other people. Right. That we, we

see that support and that love and we learn what

works and what doesn't work so that we can better

care for others as well. Absolutely. Yeah. The

one thing that comes to mind is, uh, I think

it's scam artists in France are really good at

this, but there's the trick of reciprocity where

if I give you something, you feel the need. to

give me something in return. Okay. And it's the

thing, we don't need to actually give back, but

the goal is by helping others. we're able to

support each other and we want to help out yeah

it's not a requirement it's not something you're

like mandated to do but it's something we are

able to do and want to go out our way to help

out yeah you do it for the good of christ yeah

yeah absolutely yeah so i also want to go back

to that like those the three chords right so

two are better than one but christ is sort of

what holds us all together um so what do you

think it looks like to actually allow christ

to hold us together as community I think it's

when we come together, it's coming together in

a sense under Christ. Partially it's just coming

together. If it's for advice, say it's like,

I've had a hard week. I can give advice on my

own and be like, oh yeah, eat more fruits and

veggies. That'll probably help. Sure. But being

able to also back that up with like God's word

is really, really helpful. Sure. Being able to

point back to the scriptures and say, hey, this

is what God says. We can try to implement that

and hold each other accountable. Right. That's,

I think, an extra strand that really ties together.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah. How

does Christ help hold us together in community?

I think it helps us because it reminds us we

always got to remember what would Christ do?

How would he be? If our goal is to be Christ

-like, then we need to think about it in all

circumstances. Sure. Yeah. I always think it's

like, you know, you know, when I when I do my

prayers, you know, I'll say either I'll either

say help me to be Christ like, you know, in everything.

Yes, it's that, you know, because you're trying

to be transformed by Christ. Yeah. You know,

absolutely. And like there's a song that goes

like. Be less like be more like Jesus and like

less like me. And that's what we need to ultimately

do. Even when it comes to when people are struggling

or suffering. The only thing is the only thing

is sometimes it's I feel like then there's sometimes

there is doubt with the fact that I felt it before

where it's like, I'll help out people, but I

don't trust that people will. reciprocate when

i'm sure yeah i'll be the one to help out but

i may not actually reach out because i don't

feel like there is going to be any sure anybody

to reach out yeah and i think in those moments

it's that remembering that um like christ was

what compelled us to reach out and to support

to like support other people and that christ

is with us even if nobody else is absolutely

right um yeah yeah and i think sometimes too

like we just need to get over ourselves right

like like suck up our pride and be like no actually

i need help in this absolutely right god said

it is not good for me to be alone so like i need

to risk opening up risk vulnerability so that

other people can support me and trust that there

are people who love and want to support me they

just like I need to tell them that I need that.

Yeah. And God can send good people to help you,

even if it's not somebody in your family or in

your church. It doesn't matter how God gets the

message. He's pretty good at sending it. Exactly.

And it's not always through dreams and visions

and everything like that. Sometimes it's a literal

sign. Sure. And sometimes it's just some people

are compelled by the Holy Spirit like, It seems

like I felt like you're struggling. You want

to talk, you know? Yeah. Just little interactions

make a big difference sometimes. Doesn't have

to be a literal sign or big side. It's sometimes

just someone saying, hey, how are you doing?

Yeah. For sure. Or sometimes you're listening

to K -Love in your car and something like that.

And you're just like, and that song comes on

and you're just like, okay, this is actually

what I needed to hear right now. You know, that's

God's way of. of sending something to you yeah

and i think sometimes because we're all human

like christian community is still messy oh yeah

right like as you sort of said before we're not

always going to see eye to eye on everything

um and people aren't perfect they're not going

to offer great advice all the time they're not

actually going to be super helpful all of the

time but i think when i think about the like

three chords or the three strands of the chord

um i think about that like christ is the center

of all these things and so regardless of what

we agree or don't agree on regardless of how

people have hurt me or not or how i have hurt

other people or not christ holds us together

and offers us like grace in the midst of all

of that right that that we can always come back

to that center as as a place where we are united

yeah um Even when everything else feels really

messy. He's always that core. Even if our ropes

start to fray a little bit, he's always the core

holding us together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I,

I, yeah, I just think that's so important as

we think about what it means to lean on each

other because people will disappoint us and that

will be really hard. That's human. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But. jesus is there in that and that

doesn't make the disappointment just magically

go away it doesn't make like if someone's intentionally

hurting in a community like that's not still

not okay right it's still harm um but knowing

that christ is in there with us i think makes

it bearable absolutely yeah i think we sometimes

just have to remember that You're right. Like

we do have to take the risk because it is a risk

opening up. Absolutely. You know, even if it's

not asking for help, but even just talking about

your feelings is risking it because we've all

had people where we've tried that and they're

negative. They shut it down. They dismiss it.

They joke. They they tell you something that

just sounds horrible. You know, and then that

and then that's a danger because then. You close

yourself up and then you're not trusting. And

then in the darkest situation, that's when people

turn to suicide because they, you know, they

think, oh, well, nobody gets it. Well, why? Because

you tried opening it up and that person didn't

get it. Right. And got shut down. Exactly. Yeah.

It's very handy that God at least always understands.

Yeah. Try to talk to someone we're afraid. Oh,

what if they don't understand me? What if they

don't get it? Yeah. God always does, which is

very handy. Yeah. Always. turn back to him. And

then the nice thing that I always like is why

is him being just there so important? Always

having someone there. It's going through things

hard, difficult things with people helps you

bear that burden. It stretches out, which is

where us humans made in God's image are also

good at helping bear those burdens together,

help to spread the load. Yeah. Yeah. So I think

it's like sort of like twofold reminder, right?

That like for those who are going through hard

times that like, God is there with you. God is

in the deepest, darkest pit that you could be

in. God is there. Um, and that for, for all of

us, that reminder that therefore we who are followers

of Jesus are called to imitate God. We are called

to be with people in the deepest, darkest pit,

not always to try and fix it, not to just offer

advice, but to be present and to be a support

and a friend and just a presence in the midst

of that. And I think when you're going through

stuff and it's challenging or rough, you just

got to remember to say, you know, God, I trust

in your ways. I trust in what's happening. I

trust that you know what's best. Because sometimes

we think we know what's best for ourselves and

then it doesn't happen. But it's like, you know,

like even when it comes to prayers, sometimes

it's like. We may be praying for stuff, but God's

like, yeah, that's not happening. That's not

for you. But, you know, so we just got to trust

that, you know, things will happen when they're

happen as they're supposed to happen. Yeah. Yeah.

I like to think about the hand that we're dealt.

A lot of times people say if you're going through

a hard time, you just dealt a bad hand. Yeah.

But one thing I like in card games is you get

to draw more cards. Right. Starting with a bad

hand, you get to play it as best as you can.

But that's not the end of the story. keep playing

keep drawing you never know what's going to come

up yeah you don't have to stay a victim yeah

there's there might be light at the end of the

tunnel yeah for sure for sure yeah and that's

where support helps you get there yeah for sure

for sure like i always like to say with stuff

like that is like when you're going through a

rough time it's like okay so what are you going

to do about it how are you going to get through

it yeah you know yeah you don't have to stay

oh poor me poor me you know So yeah, there's

like advice. I feel like it helps you learn how

to play those cards better and helps you answer

some of those questions. Yeah. But support helps

you keep playing to get those better cards. Yeah,

for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you

so much, guys. Yeah, I know community is hard.

People are messy. But I trust that God is in

all of it. God is showing up and God is bringing

together all of these messy, diverse people to

be a place where people can experience light

and love. Even in the deepest, darkest pits.

Absolutely. Yeah. And thank you for tuning in

to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. I pray

wherever you find yourself in whatever sort of

situations, I pray that you're not there alone.

And if you are feeling alone right now, I just

want to encourage you find somebody to reach

out to risk vulnerability, risk trust so that

you can experience the warmth, the support, the

reward of being part of a community. that loves

and serves like Christ. We'll see you again next

week.