Why You Should Leave Money on the Table | Trinity Talks Podcast

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of Trinity Talks. My name is Kyla. I'm Melissa.

And I'm Ben. And we are here to wrap up our podcast,

our whole teaching series actually called Growing

Season, where we are going back to the farm to

learn what the farm has to teach us about faith.

And so in last week's sermon, Mike Messenger

actually preached because Rob was away. And he

talked about these kind of obscure laws in the

book of Deuteronomy, all about gleaning. which

is this practice of harvesting, but then leaving

some of the crops in the field, leaving the edges

of the field or like, you know, when you sort

of go over the trees, don't go over them again

to get the extra grapes or apples or whatever

so that we leave them for other people, for the

poor, for the foreigner, for the widows, for

anybody who just needs extra food. And this sounds

cool. I think it sounds like a great idea. It

also sounds like really cool for farmer people

who like can practically do this. I think it's

like then then the question becomes, OK, so like

how do we do that in life? Like, does that even

matter for us today? Yeah. So just. As you think

about that and as you think about the sermon,

is there any particular parts that sort of stand

out to you? I think one of the parts that stood

out to me a lot is how intentional God is and

making us more intentional about giving and caring

to others. Okay. So usually something you get

to see of like, oh, yeah, love your neighbors.

Yeah. It's interesting to see him give consistently

practical advice of, hey, make sure to leave

X amount of food from the harvest away for others.

If you drop something, you don't have to pick

it up. Someone else can. mind that they can have

that yeah so it's interesting practice to leave

extra and make sure you're constantly thinking

of others, even if they're not there with you.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, and, and therefore the

piece that's like, okay, not just, Hey, love

your neighbors, but like, here's how you do that.

Yeah. Constant examples. It's great. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. What about for you? I mean, I agree

completely with Ben. It really is so cool how

God is so intentional. And I love that. Um, uh,

Mike, he talked about, uh, Ruth and Boaz and

how like. From this law and from following this

practice, it led to such amazing things. So sometimes

like we might be in a period in our life where

sometimes gleaning is a little bit easier to

do. And sometimes it's a little bit harder to

do. But at the end of the day, it's like if we

still obey God and we do it, we never know where

he's going to take that. And I think it's just

like. I love that it's just such a compassionate

and intentional. You have to mindfully say like,

oh, I'm not going to go and pick that up because

someone else might need it. It's like a practice

you have to get into. Absolutely. He's the God

of love for a reason. Yeah. Yeah. And I think,

yeah, sort of similarly, like I think one of

the points that really stood out in. in the sermon

and that is sort of related to all of this is,

yeah, just the idea that it is a really intentional

choice. Yeah. Right. And that it is a choice

that's like really sort of counterintuitive to

our world and our culture right now. Right. Like,

so Mike started out the sermon by talking about,

you know, like agribusiness. Right. And how it's

always efficiency, efficiency, like don't waste

anything. Exactly. And I guess to think of. the

leaving behind as like waste as opposed to thinking

about it as, you know, a way of making space

for other people. And I think that that is a

little bit different, like in our culture today.

Like I think if a farmer today would just like

left part of their field there, people would

be like, why? And other people probably wouldn't

feel free to go and glean from that. Right. Yeah.

But are there other ways in farming or in life?

that we can like make space for other people.

And yeah, just like like leave behind or like

give away like whatever it is. Right. I think

it's really funny because if you imagine like

gleaning with what we have today instead of maybe

with fruits or with grains. Yeah. With money.

If you just start like throwing $20 bills onto

the street, people also would question. That's

just now you're living. We don't know where it

goes. Yeah. But instead of just doing that, if

you can be intentional about where your money

goes at the start of every month or wherever

you get your paycheck, setting a set of money

aside. Sure. for giving is a really, really handy

spot, whether it's giving directly to a church,

whether all of that goes to a church or all that

goes to a charity or some that goes here and

some that goes there. Right. I think it's. Partially

just to be intentional about how do I garnish

my resources, my time, my money? What do I have

to offer? Yeah. So by setting up a plan intentionally

and saying, hey, I want to give this amount away.

I want to leave some for others is probably one

of the easier ways to try and get into doing

it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. Absolutely,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to read for us

the passage from Deuteronomy. So folks have a

little bit of context for what we're talking

about here. So Deuteronomy chapter 24, starting

Deuteronomy 24 · chapter mention

at verse 9. So when you are harvesting in your

field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back

and get it. Leave it for the foreigner, the fatherless

and the widow, so that the Lord your God may

bless the work of your hands. And when you beat

your olives from the trees, do not go over the

branches a second time. Leave it for the foreigner,

the fatherless and the widow. And when you harvest

grapes in your vineyard, do not go over the vines

again. Leave what remains for the foreigner,

the fatherless, and the widow. Remember that

you were slaves in Egypt, and that is why I command

you to do this. So just as I read that passage

of scripture, yeah, is there anything that stands

out to you? It definitely like when it mentions

like how the Israelites, they were slaves in

Egypt. So sometimes it, I guess it's human nature

to be like, well, why am I going to leave something

behind for someone else? Right. Or even in life

where like, well, why do I have to do this for

someone else? Why do I have to go the extra mile

or be very intentional? And it's just that reminder

of like, we've. all been in places where we had

to rely on someone else or if we haven't been

in those places yet I feel like eventually it's

coming it's coming exactly and I do feel like

God makes that very intentional where he's just

like you know it's time to learn it's time to

do some character development so just for the

Israelites and even for us just remembering the

times where we kind of needed someone else's

compassion and love and time um and then once

we're kind of in a place where hey we feel kind

of a little bit better a little bit good that's

also something that we can give back to right

i think it's really important to kind of keep

that cycle going because there's always going

to be people who are going to need people um

and just remain it's like a it's like reminding

us to remain humble sure yeah sure and like a

really intentional sort of commentary on what

it means to be human yeah that being human is

being people who have needs and people who are

dependent on other people right um and that's

not like sometimes we think of being dependent

on other people as like problematic or like you

know like whatever but like that's not it's not

inherently problematic right it just for like

yeah like part of the reason maybe not the only

reason but part of the reason that god asks me

to be generous to love my neighbor is because

god loves me exactly and it's because other people

love me yeah right like and it just like feeds

that cycle right and so remembering okay i'm

not I'm just giving what I have because God told

me to. I'm giving what I have because I have

been blessed. I have been given much. And so

I can give much away. Right. It talks about like

giving is better than receiving and loving each

other and caring for one another. Doesn't always

mean that we have to be a burden on the other.

Sure. Giving is a real treat. Yeah. And even

for just dealing with people, even if you in

a spot where you have all that you need, like

you're very wealthy, but like, physically and

financially but having people to have that wealth

for being able to like go through life with others

whether it's just to feed them or whether it's

to go through with camaraderie those are really

important facts it's what makes it meaningful

yeah yeah for sure i feel like um i feel like

society has been and it is growing increasingly

more like individualistic right just that idea

of like i have to protect me i have to protect

what's mine kind of idea um so i understand why

the idea of gleaning in any way might not be

super popular in our society right now however

i i think that can be really scary right and

i don't think that's necessarily a healthy sign

i think we do need to think of other people and

we kind of need to move a little bit away from

that individualistic mindset which i think this

verse is encouraging us to kind of be like if

you were on your own when you were at your lowest

yeah do you think you would still be you would

be here right now and it's like probably not

right so it's like don't think now that you can

do everything on your own or that you have to

do everything on your own when at one point in

time you couldn't Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

think one of the other points that Mike brought

up in the sermon that sort of stands out to me

is that this is an act of, of charity, of giving

away, but it's not just giving away. Yeah. Right.

It's leave these things in your field for the

foreigner, the fatherless and the widow so that

they can come and gather those things themselves.

Yeah. Right. And so there's a sense of like,

dignity of labor in that, right? That it's not

just, ah, here's a thing. It's not just handouts.

Yeah, and it's not just handouts. And I think

that there is, you know, sometimes when people

think about like charity or giving to the poor

or whatever, they're like, you know, handouts

are just no good. I think there is a time and

a place for people to just get a thing that they

need. Disaster relief? Just give it. Yeah, yeah.

You need to work for that. Yeah, yeah. But I

think that there are other times and places and

spaces in which, yeah, we are actually called

to invite people to be part of what is happening.

Absolutely. Yeah, and yeah, I just think that

that's really interesting here. I think that

is really cool because at the core of that, too

is like not excluding people right you're including

people in more than just you know making sure

that they have the needs they have you're including

them into like a practice a community and I think

that's also really important too so I think maybe

that's a different perspective on gleaning as

well where we can give money we can give time

but even just like inviting people into the things

that we're doing you know maybe another way as

well sure and i think it makes it a little more

relational too right like when i think about

okay like in the example of food i could be like

okay i'll give some food to a food bank and they'll

like distribute that and that's good do that

i could also invite someone into my house and

have dinner with them or i could go to like a

community kitchen and cook a meal with someone

else right like just all of these ways of inviting

people into the process it helps. Break down

those like barriers. Yeah. One of the things

that I really like as well about this form of

gleaning is I just did a big project for my school

on a store called Good Store. It's run by Hank

and John Green. But one of the things that they

do is they take all profits and donate them directly

to charity. Okay. But instead of it just being

give like handouts, if we give things to people,

it can be really, really good. Yeah. We also

don't want to just slap a bandaid on a bigger

problem. Sure. So one of the things that they

did is they partnered with Partners in Health.

few other organizations to build a hospital or

maternal center of excellence in Sierra Leone.

Okay. So now instead of just here's some stuff,

no, here's a hospital and a training center to

encourage them to develop. Hey, here are the

resources you have. Now you get to have more

jobs, more expertise, more knowledge. Now it's

your time to shine. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

That's incredible. It's awesome. Wow. yeah yeah

so just yeah thinking about how do we include

people in the acts of generosity i think is super

important it is one thing i also love about the

passage that stood out to me was when we're like

whacking the trees to get all the all the fruits

out yeah one of the fun things is you don't go

over it twice you just do it the once yeah partially

to help you i think partially for burnout and

make sure you don't overwork yourself you have

more of yourself to give to others yeah but then

it also does invite more people to keep coming

back to, Hey, let's do this together. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. I love that.

I mean, Ruth and Boaz, right? The whole, that's

how it kind of started. So I think it's. That's

a really good point. And yeah, like imagine having

to go back to the tree because you're like, I

left another one there. Oh, my God. It's like

right now I like grew some tomatoes this year.

And right now that some of the tomatoes are ripening,

but it seems like every day that I go back, there

are more red tomatoes that were green the day

before. Right. But like, yeah. What would it

look like to be like, OK, I'm going to wait to

the peak and then at the peak, I'll harvest all

of the red tomatoes. And then. leave the rest

i mean right now i wouldn't leave the rest because

the squirrels would eat them all and that would

be sad yeah hey the squirrels will love it yes

but um but actually yeah so in this community

garden that i'm part of um every thursday there

is like a food charity that will come and like

pick up extra vegetables and things like that

right so yeah yeah so like yeah being able to

say okay i will take the tomatoes that i need

this week and then i can give away the rest right

yeah there's another thing to be said for understanding

how much do i actually need yeah and then being

able to say okay the rest is totally okay to

be given away yeah for sure and actually it's

a really because i mean ben you're doing your

master's in like sustainable i don't like business

psychology A master's of business with an emphasis

in sustainability. Oh, okay. VA was psyched.

Super cool. All of like everything that you're

learning and have learned. But even just like

that question about like overconsumption, right?

It's like how that can be really unhealthy and

harmful socially and things like that. And just,

is it sustainable? And I feel like, I mean, I

don't think overconsumption is sustainable. You

know what I mean? The fun things that we're learning,

but especially that's bringing people together

is especially things like global warming. It's

getting really hard to tackle these things. A

lot of times the message is us as individuals

just need to be better. Right. Just like don't

consume as much. Don't buy as much. Walk whenever

you can. Don't drive as much. What we've been

looking at the data is that's not really enough

anymore to solve some of these issues. We're

past that. What we need is to get people to join

together for more collaborative efforts to bring

down total overconsumption and overproduction.

Right. We need like whole systems change. We

need systems transformation. That's a big thing.

Yeah. Absolutely. Individuals, we can be great.

Yeah. Get more people in. That's the way we make

the most change. That's cool. Yeah. So then as

you think about these like gleaning laws and

sort of practices that God advocates for, like,

what does that look like today? Especially, I

think, for those of us who aren't farmers out

there beating the trees and harvesting the wheat.

Right. Yeah. How do we put this into practice?

I think one of the ways we do is, like, classically,

generosity and giving. One of the things I like,

even just going back to my project with Good

Store, is outside of just supporting a hospital,

one of the things that they're doing is they're

putting a lot of the profits as well, now that

the hospital's almost done, is putting it towards

tuberculosis treatment and long -term care. Sure.

Because one of the ways for that one specifically

is it's an injustice in economy. We have the

tools to solve tuberculosis, and yet when we...

haven't been able to just due to inequities.

So trying to be able to send money there is one

really nice way that we can do it. But even outside

of just that, whether it's doting to people in

your neighborhood or church, those are ways.

Or if it's time, it's volunteering. Where can

you try and help out? Where do you find you have

a gift or an availability that you can use? I

mean, I love the volunteering part as well, because

I think. people do have an excess of time i think

sometimes they can feel like we don't because

we're like we have to do this and do this and

do this and it's totally fair like don't burn

yourself out don't be doing 20 things at once

because that's not sustainable and it's not very

healthy either right um but if you find that

you do have some extra time like you know whether

that's even serving at church or even just um

anywhere by just giving a little bit of that

extra time because kind of like um being a part

of like a community and being part of a system

you're you're building those relationships and

at the same time you're uh giving back and you're

reminding yourself that you're not just like

one person handling everything on your own you

are reliant on other people and other people

are reliant on you as well right yeah yeah and

then i think Yeah, I think all of this, like

generosity, volunteering, the building relationships.

I think one of the things that is just structurally

different about gleaning versus like generosity

is that it is planned ahead of time. It's like

built into the design and the rhythm of the harvest.

Right. And I think that feels really important

because it's that act of saying generosity is.

part of my life. It is how I will live. It is

like a rule, a structure that I have built in,

regardless of what's happening in my life. Yeah.

Right. Regardless of whether this is a good year

or a bad year, regardless of like what my time

or whatever's happening, I'm going to put God,

I'm going to put other people first. Yeah. That

feels really hard. Yes. But I think that that

is one of the primary things that this law is

like, The heart behind it. Yeah. So one of the

things I find interesting is like take out your

calculator sometimes and try and calculate how

much money would I make this year? How much money

do I need this year? Can I give away? And same

with time. Yeah. Look, you only have so many

hours physically in a week. Yeah. How many are

you needing? And where are the areas we can have

some wiggle room and give? Yeah. And even if

you try and mix it like a rhythm in your life

and then you realize, oh, maybe I did too much

this week. Yeah. Sometimes it's nice then to

be able to ask others to be able to support you

too. It's a community effort. You don't always

have to be the one giving. I love that. That

is such an important point too. Because I think

kind of like where we're sitting here, even if

people who have listened to the sermon from last

week, we might think of ourselves as the farmer,

right? Also, if you are in a place where you

are the gleaner, where you're the one who's like

kind of picking things up, like that's totally

okay as well. Because I think... And we're going

to be both people, both groups at different points

in our lives. And I think it's just when we do

incorporate that generosity, it's kind of like

no matter where we're at in our life, there's

like this one thing that's like kind of stable.

That's like, OK, this is how I'm being rooted

in community. This is how I'm trying to get closer

to God or putting God first in my life. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that like important part

is that like generosity is the principle and

what that looks like in each person's life is

going to be different. Right. Like even financially

speaking, like we could say, oh, it needs to

be a certain percentage or whatever. Maybe. But.

it could be different amounts of money. It could

be not money at all. Right. Like some people

can be more generous financially. Other people

can be more generous with their relationships

or with their time or like with whatever is happening.

Yeah. Right. But I think, so when I think about.

the financial piece of it like what becomes really

clear to me is like if i put generosity first

if i get my paycheck and the first thing that

i do with my paycheck is give away a portion

of my money yeah then i no longer have that money

to spend on mcdonald's yes yes it's a good fail

safe right and so then like obviously like there

are things that i need to pay my rent and yeah

put gas in my car and buy some groceries like

right so like i shouldn't give away so much much

money that I can no longer afford to live but

if I give away that money first then some of

the things that I maybe would have spent that

money on that I don't actually need maybe just

don't need to happen yeah right and and that's

okay it's priorities what do you set first if

I'm prioritizing giving I'll give away first

make sure that's the thing that's most important

to me yeah and I think sometimes like so while

we're talking about mcdonald's sometimes okay

maybe i personally spend a lot of money on fast

food i don't think i do particularly but like

sometimes that's like a social activity too and

it's like oh well if i don't have money to spend

on going out with my friends then like i won't

see my friends but maybe you can find ways to

spend time with your friends that don't cost

money and maybe that will be a really weird mind

shift for some people maybe they're like well

the thing that i do with my friends is go out

for dinner or go to the movies or whatever right

and like if you have space in your time and your

budget to do that great but like maybe as a friend

group you can sort of shift what you're doing

and say actually well what if we just all came

in and had dinner or what if we all go out and

do this volunteer thing together right like are

there ways that we can shift not just our personal

sort of sense of generosity but like our our

social yeah what we do with other people i think

it's really funny now because i have a big friend

group online and a lot of times for depending

on which group of friends i'm playing sure a

lot of them are really tight on money sure one

of the things we always come back to is games

that are free to play sure are some of our favorites

yeah but even outside of that it's a community

effort if we're all saying hey i found this really

fun game that we want to play it's like five

dollars and like I really don't want to spend

money right now. I need to prioritize like rent

and savings for school. Sure. Great. No worries.

I have a lecture. I got you. Sure. It's community

effort. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And just like,

I feel like it's like when you're with your friends,

right? It's like, even just in that case, it's

like, you know, this is someone that you care

about. It kind of just like a little bit, like

it kind of comes naturally in a way. Um, and

even just in the verse, it's like when the farmer

is like, harvesting doing the whacking of the

trees and things like that it's i mean i mean

i would assume that he's not like intentionally

being like i'm not gonna pick that one i'm gonna

pick this one well okay maybe maybe a little

but it's kind of like it seems like naturally

there's just gonna be things that are gonna be

left behind yeah um and i think it's cool that

god made it that way because I think maybe we

can kind of look in our lives and being like

well where have things just naturally where do

we just naturally have an extra bit of time or

naturally where we could um help someone out

or build relationships or maybe give a little

bit more to like church or just anywhere right

and I think sometimes it doesn't have to be like

a okay let me very intentionally give $20 to

my friend every single week it could be like

oh like we have the same interest. We all like

each other. Oh, hey, five dollars. I'll do that.

I think that it just comes a very like natural,

smooth way. Sure. Or maybe it doesn't have to

be such a huge pressure thing. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

I think one thing as well that's really beneficial

is trying to help like destigmatize and remove

the shame from being the people who do need to

glean. Yeah. If you're just in a spot where like

maybe you got just laid off and you don't have

everything you need. Right. There's no shame

in being laid off, especially if it wasn't your

fault. Right. So some of the things is being

able to lift people up and not put them down,

not being like, oh, I'll leave some for you peasant

in the side. Right, right, right, right. Don't

say like, oh, that's hard. I've been there too.

And can we help out? Yeah. Hey, I'm there for

you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. So

what do you think? makes it so hard to put this

into practice, right? So the principle, generosity,

leaving space for other people sounds really

good. I think we're all kind of on board. Why

don't we all do that? Speaking as someone in

school, like a lot of people around my age are

really concerned with a lot of things of student

debt. How much does schooling cost? Combine that

with cost of living, increasing cost of grocery

prices, increasing gas prices all over the map.

So a lot of people are going, I don't know that

I have physically enough for me, especially with

like the classic American dream. Like make yourself

your own person. Be able to buy a house is usually

one of the big dreams. Yeah. And for a lot of

people, that's not really a reality right now.

Sure. And so especially when you're looking at

those goals, it comes really hard to say, yeah,

I have extra to give when I physically can't

attain some of these goals. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it looks like it's basically just a shift

of mindset. We're playing a different game now.

How can we change this game? And hopefully there's

a lot of other people playing the game to help

us change it. Sure. But how can we shift from?

a moment of scarcity saying, I don't know that

I have enough to being able to have a more open

hand posture and be able to give just a little

bit. I think also just, I feel like, yeah, like.

as things get increasingly individualistic, it

makes sense. Like, I feel like there's a social

contract sometimes where it's like, for example,

in this case, it's kind of like a social contract

where the farmer who might be a little bit more

well -off, they are supporting people who are

going to need that extra support. At the same

time, I feel like there's another social contract

where it's like the older generation, they take

care of the younger generation. I feel like that's

not happening as much anymore. And I feel like

that's why we have students, young people who

have goals and all these things, but they're

They're like, oh, my gosh, I need to save money

for this. I'm trying to do this. I'm trying to

do that. And it's like that makes so much sense.

And I guess the way that things are, yes, do

that. But at the same time, it's kind of like

maybe you guys are the gleaners. Are the farmers

leaving things for you guys? And maybe just socially

where things are at, that's not what's happening.

Right. And it's like those. kind of social contracts

are being broken down and then what's happening

is again like young people they're just trying

to survive and kind of keep up not to blame the

older generation um because i feel like i'm part

of the older i feel i feel old but it's kind

of like even just for me being like okay like

if i'm you know, I'm almost 30, then like, what

can I then do for the younger generation so that

they can have things a little bit more, like

ease things a little bit more too. And I think

it, yes, I think in your example, because I think

that just like is really sitting with me as being

like, you know, young people, you're just trying

to survive. So then what can the older generation

do? What can groups that feel a little bit more

well -off do? And I think that the shift in mindset

is going to have to come from those kind of people

and at the same time setting an example as well

sure um and then having young people being like

well yeah where can i you know maybe give a little

bit more sure yeah and i think recognizing that

like everyone not everyone everyone but a lot

of people yeah are feeling crunched yes right

and so not to say that that is anyone's particular

fault not to say that like yeah it's just there's

bad systems out there that are just not working

for people absolutely right um and so in that

how can we as followers of jesus say I'm not

playing that game. Yeah. Right. To say, OK, the

vision of of the American dream of the house

with the white picket fence and the kids and

the dog and whatever. Right. This is a great

vision. I would love that. That would be great.

But how do we opt out? And so I'm not playing

that game. Yeah. Because actually what matters

to me is. family actually what matters to me

is loving my neighbor actually what matters to

me is justice like whatever it is right and say

that's what i want to orient my life towards

right and therefore generosity just has to be

part of that right because it's all in that same

pathway and i'm not saying that's easy no um

it and it will sound weird to a lot of people.

It will not be successful, quote unquote. Like

you're maybe not going to see the fruit of that

in your life. Right. But just believing that

that is the better way. That is the game. To

play. Starting the spark that changes way more

than just what we can on our own. Yeah. I think

one of the ways as well that we can try to do

this, especially moving away from just financially

giving, is getting involved in your communities.

Yeah. If this is a game that doesn't work for

us, but is still the game that we're all playing,

having a voice, trying to go to whether it's

local events or voting, especially for voter

turnout, is still really, really low in almost

every area. Sure. So trying to have more people

use your voice to say, hey, I think the game

needs to change. How can we make this a better

game for everyone? How do we change the systems

that are currently in place that are failing,

whether it's repairing them or just totally shifting

them, finding something new. If no one says anything,

it's not going to change. Got to work together

for it. Yeah. I love that. So and it's kind of

just like, yeah, I think maybe just socially

we need more gleaning in our society. And maybe

like I think Christians, we do have to. be the

people who are trying to glean and love thy neighbor

and do the things that God has told us to do

in a world where people are moving away from

that. And it's like, I understand why people

are moving away from that. Cause things, again,

people are in a crunch. It feels more urgent.

It feels more like if I don't do this and like

all these things are going to happen. And sometimes

they, they do happen. Right. But I think it's

like as Christians kind of taking on. bearing

that cross right yeah yeah yeah and just like

believing fully or maybe believing partially

but like doing it anyway but just like believing

that it is the better way yeah yeah right even

though it makes no sense that the way of jesus

that chooses self -sacrifice that chooses generosity

and love over a vision of success, right? That

just is the better way. Yeah. That just is what's

going to ultimately make us happier, make us

healthier, make us wholer as people. Yeah, because

I think the truth of the like American dream

success path is that like you get the white picket

fence and the two kids and the dog and you're

like stuff there. But but no, you get the white

picket fence and the two kids and the dog and

you're like, oh, actually, well, what if I also

just had this nicer car? One more. What if I

also just like got this one more promotion in

my job? Right. Whereas if you opt out of that

and you say. actually, I'm not playing that game.

My definition of success is all based on faithfulness

to Christ. Then, like, you can be satisfied at

a certain point. What do I need? And if all I

really need is God? Well, that's a, that's a

low bar. He's already there for me. It's awesome.

And also just like, again, I just, so I just

love their story of Ruth and Bo. That is one

of my favorite stories in the Bible because it

just shows like how intentional God is. And generally

it's like, as we're having this conversation,

like people might think like, okay, so I guess

I'm just. going to glean i'm going to also leave

things for people i'm going to you know set up

the system and maybe there's this there is this

idea of like self -sacrifice which i think is

is important um but also you never know where

god is going to take something right yeah maybe

you've spent your leaving like three hours of

your week to serve in church or to go here or

to do something. Right. You never know what God

is going to use from that to bring really cool

things into your life. Maybe you thought you

needed those three hours to work three more hours.

Sure. More hours. Yeah. Yeah. But. You just never

know, right? And I think God never asked us to

be like, okay, figuring everything out. He just

asked us to obey. He asked us to stick with him

and then he kind of handles the rest. Yeah. Of

all the systems that have not failed us, God's

the big one. Oh, I love that. Oh, that popped

up. That was really good. Thank you. Yeah, so

as we sort of wrap up, are there any sort of

like practical tips or like, thoughts that you

might leave people with with okay what does it

look like to leave margin in our finances in

our time in our relationships i think the thing

for me is just to be intentional about it whether

it's start of the week or start of every month

start of every year it's just take a little bit

of time to be intentional about how can i give

where can i give sure and if you're not in a

position where you can give much the pressure

is not for you to give a lot it's to give what

you can Yeah. And so it's be intentional. Hey,

I might be able to volunteer here or maybe I

can just help out, whether it's just with friends.

Sure. I can be there for them. And this time.

Yeah. Just being intentional. Set some time aside.

Try to plan it out and build it into your daily.

Yeah. One of the things that I really like that

Mike talked about was like in leaving margin

in our attention for other people. Right. That

sometimes it's just about asking one more question.

It's just about hearing the end of that story

and not being like, oh, sorry, I need to do this

other thing. But just being like, yeah, let's

just take some space right now to be fully present

with this other person. And that is something

that doesn't cost us any money. It costs us some

time. It costs us some mental energy. And maybe

not everybody has the space for that, but a lot

of people do. You can take that time. two minutes

to ask that one more question to just dig a little

deeper dig a little deeper be a little more present

yeah yeah the same with like you know the five

minutes after the church right just taking that

time to like talk to people get some coffee get

some cookies and even just like that can feel

like especially if you've had a long week you're

like i just want to go home yeah but it's like

just kind of taking that time and you never know

what might come out of it right and you never

know how that might fill your cup or fill someone

else's cup um and i think just i love ben what

you said about intentional because we can be

like oh yeah so i'm just gonna set 10 of my earnings

and then i'm just gonna that's my way of contributing

but it's like if you're just kind of like i guess

giving the money but you're not building that

relationship you're not actively trying to get

involved in like systems and communities and

it's kind of like well maybe we can look at volunteering

you know or maybe if people feel uncomfortable

with giving because it is something that folks

feel uncomfortable with which is just so valid

right um then just Give an hour of your week

or give two or three hours of your week. Yeah.

And just start there. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, folks.

Yeah, I think this has been really helpful to

unpack this. Yeah. Sort of random law. Right.

That we can read it and be like, OK, cool. I

don't harvest grapes. So moving on. Right. But

there's a principle there. It was intentional.

It was super intentional. And God says, leave

space. for other people, even when it's hard,

even when it means that you're not going to be

successful by the world standards, there is a

better way. And there is a way that shows love.

for our neighbors and therefore brings love back

to us. Yeah. Right. As we build these whole communities

of people that care for one another really well.

Yeah. Our job is just to find it and choose it.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And thank you for tuning

in to this week's episode of Trinity Talks. I

pray that you are able to make space for other

people, whether that is in your finances, in

your time, in your attention, in your energy.

And I pray that you are surrounded by people

who make space for you and that together, as

we all make space. We can share in the beautiful

love that God has given to each of us. And we'll

see you again next week.