Beyond Sunday Episode 14 (Special Guest, Joel Giesbrecht!)

Well, welcome to Be on Sunday, a podcast that's linked to the

preaching ministry of Leamington EMC.

I'm Pastor Jonah Chitty. I'm joined today with by Pastor

Joe Penner and one of our youth leaders, Joel Geese Brick, how

are you guys doing today? Doing good.

Awesome. I have a very important question

this this afternoon for both of you or only one of you.

It's fall here in Ontario. It's getting a little crisp.

What's your go to coffee beverage at the Starbucks right

now at. The Starbucks Joe, you go first.

It was just black coffee until I tried what a treat.

Vanilla latte. The other that was pretty good.

So wait, how long you been drinking coffee?

Since 17, so probably 10 years now.

And you? Just now tried the vanilla

latte. Applause.

Applause from the from the audience.

It's good you're branching out. I like it.

Joe, what's your fall drink of choice?

Feel like I'm like able to give like the white girl answer.

You are pumpkin spice lot. Yes, pumpkin spice.

It is so good. That's that's awesome.

Mine would just be, you know, Americano with one cream because

I'm American and I just like black coffee with cream.

It's fine. Anyway, I thought that was

funny. Just I just wanted to put Joe

out here, but on the. I eat that, I eat gravel when

I'm eating it, so just so offset how?

How manly you are. You like that's good.

No, that's really, really good. So you might be wondering why

and where pastor Pastor Jake is. Well, Pastor Jake is serving in

Alberta. He's out in picture Butte, AB

this week. He's going to be preaching a

series of messages there at their church.

And so we thought, why not bring Joel in because he had the

opportunity to speak to our congregation on family night.

From what song was it Joel? Psalm 73.

Psalm 73 that's right, very good message.

If you haven't had a chance to listen to that, we did put that

up on on the podcast app a couple of episodes back.

So feel free to go back and listen to that.

You'll be benefited by hearing the word preached, but also it

will help with our conversation today.

So Joel, why don't you go ahead and just give us a little bit of

for those who haven't heard or maybe those who did hear and

need a recap, give us a short recap.

Yeah, so Psalm 73 being transparent, you gave me the

opportunity to choose what Solomon wanted.

So I chose the one that I related to most.

So that's why I talked about Psalm 73 and it talks about

finding contentment even when there's unbelievers, when the

wicked seem to be thriving. And so that was my main point is

how do we find contentment in God when we see unbelievers

thriving? And my main points there were

connected to the illustration I used of climbing a mountain.

And so the main points were that we have to focus on the path.

We focus on the word of God. We don't look aside to all the

distractions, all the big houses and fancy cars of the neighbors,

but we focus on the word of God. Then we remain mindful of the

dangers. We know that there's certain

things that we can be tempted by.

We know that if we only focus on ourselves, it leads to being

selfish, it leads to not caring about others.

We don't see the outside world. And then finally, the fact of

seeking refuge in God as mountain climbers seek refuge in

big rocks. I use the analogy of we seek

refuge in the Rock of Ages and seeing God is our strength, our

sustainer and our Savior. And yeah, I just really love

that last portion of the Psalm 73 is my heart and my flesh may

fail, but God is this my strength and portion forever.

And so if we focus on that, then it's hard to say, OK, I don't

have the biggest house, I don't have the cows in the back that

I'd like maybe, but. Are you planning on doing some

homesteading? I would love to, but the bylaws

say no. Bummer.

You just have to move out of where you are.

Yeah, you know, find, find some open property.

What? That's hard to do here.

Yeah, yeah. That's good.

Yeah. So that was a.

That's a basic summary of it. And what would it be like the

key take away that you would take just being content?

Is that what it was? Yeah, the key take away was

because God is faithful, we should find contentment in him.

So God has proven himself faithful.

We see it everywhere in the Bible.

It's hard to see you when you're in the areas that you don't want

to be in, when you're sick, when you're your income is low.

But God has proven faithful. So yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that's good that this

Psalm has always stuck out to me because of the honesty of the

soleness. Like, I mean, he sort of admits

like, man, I almost stumbled. Like I almost like I almost went

beyond the point of no return. You know, it sort of seems like

he's saying it's like, but it's and I loved how you emphasized

this in your sermon that it's like, because I'm taking my eyes

off of Christ and I'm putting them on the things of this

world. And isn't that exactly what we

do all the time, right? Like when I realize that my

priorities are out of line and out of whack, it's because I've

stopped looking to Christ, I've stopped looking to God.

I've stopped trusting in him and I've started to try to find

fulfillment in the things of this world.

And like, I'm looking at everybody else around me going,

it's like, well, they have that, they have this and whatever,

making all these comparisons. And it's like, well, maybe my

heart recognizing that my heart's in the wrong place,

right? That God has been faithful and

he is going to take care of us. And I feel like that does tie in

perfectly with where our scripture memory, you know, was,

was at in the Sermon on the Mount a few weeks back with look

at the birds of the field. Look like, look at the lilies.

Look, look at all these things. It's like God is taking care of

these things. Like, do you not trust that he's

going to take care of you? Look at you putting these plugs

in for like scripture memory and the Bible reading plan.

Just like seamless, you're becoming a professional.

Tie it all together. Oh, I forgot to say, Joel, we'll

get back to. I do want to like before we get

you out of here, like before we let you go.

That's a terrible way to go about that.

I do want you to share a little bit about what you're

podcasting. We can do that in just a few

minutes, though. Joel is a pro at podcasting.

Well, so, yeah, I know you're going to be humble and all that

stuff and let somebody give you a compliment.

It's fine. Your your illustration about

mountain climbing and keeping our eye on the path.

I think Pastor Jake said this before, but like Pastor Jake's,

he likes to ride motorcycles. Or he did.

And one of the things he's brought this up several times to

us is like, you know, you never look anywhere but where you want

to go when you're riding a motorcycle, it's important for

you to not look around. And I, I, I used to ride

mountain bikes too. And like the, the trail can get

really, really dangerous at times.

But if you keep your, but if you start to look at it like down at

your feet or right in front of your wheel, you will fall almost

every single time. And like, if you, but if you

keep your eye out there on where you're going, where you're going

want to want to go. And in this case with the

psalmist, if you keep your eye on Christ or in the own God,

you're much more like safe. You're going to get where you

want to go. Yeah, keeping your eyes on that.

So I think it's a really helpful illustration.

Yeah, I think Pastor Jake used the illustration of Rd. signs

two weeks prior, and then Pastor Joe used it the week before.

And I was like, well, they all beat this horse, so I'm going to

hit it again. But yeah, it's such a good

illustration of, I'm just kidding, it wasn't beating a

dead horse, but it's such a good illustration of the path that we

walk as Christians. Yeah, no, no, no blowing the

horn through the tunnel, right, right.

Use that in your in your sermon as well.

The second I saw that sign, I said that's going in the

devotion. Yeah, because what does it make

you want to do? It makes you want to do that

things like, you know, no one knew that it was something to do

until you until you see it. So it was impactful for sure.

Yeah. And I did confess that that is

the reason I'm probably the reason that they made that sign,

because every time we go to the mountains, we go up to Cates

Cove and the road up to Cates Cove, there are like 3 tunnels,

maybe at least two. And we blow the horn in the

evening, All of them. I can honestly say I've never

like, I mean, we've gone to get, we've gone to Tennessee a number

of times over the years and I have never even thought of it.

Like you should do it. Maybe it's only if there's no

sign. If there's a sign, don't do it.

We want to make don't break the rules but.

Well, like, what is silly infraction?

Can you imagine like getting pulled over and be like, yeah,

you honk the horn man 175 bucks. You saw the sign, right?

That's funny. Yeah, I liked you were be

mindful of the dangers point was something that stood out to me

whenever whenever you were you were preaching through it.

And I don't know if you said this, but I wrote this down as

something that stood out for me was like the most dangerous

thing of all is our unrepentant sin.

And like thinking about that, and I think Joe even mentioned

something like that and his sermon may be the same morning

about like keeping sin secret is very dangerous.

And it was either that week or the week prior that you said

that. But like I, I think that's

something that we need to all keep in mind is like unrepentant

sin in our life is, is going to keep us from staying on the

path. It's going to keep us.

There's going to be a barrier or a wall between US and the Lord.

And so we need to do that. I thought that was really good.

And then and then in that too, at the, I wrote Christ as our

sustainer, our strength and our Savior.

But yeah, it was just really helpful.

I really appreciated the devotion.

Yeah. How did you, how did you feel?

You know, it was like you, you preached last of all here at

LEMC and I think you've have you done it before then as well.

I did, I think once or twice. OK, Yeah, I think one other

sermon is devotional or something like that.

OK. Yeah, yeah.

So obviously you're you're, you're not getting a lot of

reps. So how does it feel you?

Know well he does get reps we'll say yeah.

Because. He's teaching our youth, which

is something that is important to Joe and I because we both

have children in the youth department.

So we're grateful for you and the work you guys do with the

junior youth. I mean, my daughter, we came

from a pretty, a pretty healthy church and she gave you guys one

of the best compliments ever. She said, she said, Kyle and

Joel, the teaching that they do is way more deep than what we

had at the old church. And I was like, that's a big,

that's a big compliment. And so, yeah, we're grateful for

you. But you're.

So he's getting reps, but in front of the congregation.

I know where you're going there. So yeah, yeah.

So how did you feel? Yeah, I guess it's a bit

different than 11 and 12 year olds a but.

Not much. Actually, I don't know.

They they ask questions sometimes in you so, but no, I

was telling Jonah before we turn the mics on that I normally I

like sticking to shorter amounts of time because I tell myself if

I can't say it in 10 minutes, then I shouldn't be saying it

for 30 minutes. So to speak, Glory.

Praise the Lord, but so the 20 minute mark was kind of a

hindrance this time, and I wish I would have expanded on the

explanation parts of it a bit more.

I didn't do myself favors by any favors by reading the whole

chapter of Psalm 73, but I like that chapter so much I didn't

want to take anything out, so I wanted to read the whole thing.

Yeah, I I guess what I would have done differently would be

to expand a bit more on that explanation side, maybe shorten

the illustrations slightly, being less wordy.

But yeah, that's kind of where I felt.

Yeah, it, I mean, it's tough, right?

Like Psalm 73 is a, is a pretty big chapter.

Yeah. And so, you know, here here at

LMC, it's like we we try the best we can to do like

expositional preaching, which is expositional preaching is

taking, you know, reading a passage of Scripture, taking the

meaning, the intended meaning from the author of that passage

and then sort of explaining it and applying it to our day.

And so, yeah, when you go through a whole chapter like

that's, that's a lot, right? That's yeah, that's a lot to get

through. But you did a good job and you

focused on, you know, the high points.

You obviously can't get into like every single thing that's

in there, but you, you got through the high points.

With Psalms, though, I think like, it's important.

I, I think I, I, I'm not going to knock you at all for reading

the whole chapter because I think like, we're not, we're not

going back to Psalm 73 anytime soon.

And so it's important for us to know like the whole context that

there are, they're meant to be read at one time, with the

exception of maybe 119. It would take us a while to do

that. Maybe 1-19, something we should

just read on a Sunday night, Just spend the whole time

reading the whole Psalm because it's so beneficial.

But yeah, I think that was a great job.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't go back and change that part.

Yeah, I wouldn't take that out. So yeah, one of the things that

I wrote down is I don't know if this was verbatim what you said

or if it was, if it was like my summary of it, but you said what

we focus on determines our contentment.

Yeah, it might have been, but not verbatim, but essentially.

That is like that's really good. Like to think about like like

that was the point that you were drawing out.

And I'm just like, that's a really that's a really

interesting way of saying that, right?

We've already talked about contentment, but it's like if my

focus, you use the example of cars and and a house, right?

It's like if my focus is on that house, that is now the

determining factor of my contentment, right?

And it's like, that's such a good way of saying it.

And I think we all could be convicted by that, that we tend

to focus on the whatever it is, right?

Like whatever The thing is that you're looking at too much and

it begins to shape your outlook of life.

It leads into the part of the First Corinthians where we're in

as well, because if you're only focusing on yourself in the

sense of like, I want to find contentment in whatever I'm

doing. Often times if you use the

example of volunteering at church or being a body of Christ

and part of the body of Christ, it's not always like this joyous

thing that you're going to find this great happiness in it right

away. And so if you only focus on

happiness in that part, well, now you're, you're not going to

want to go serve because, well, it's, it's not very not happy

there. That's a good point.

Like we should find joy, I think in our serving.

But like, if that's the only thing we're getting out of it,

if that's the, if that's what we're going looking for, we're

not going to be content because there are aspects to everything

that you do. That's just some of its

drudgery. Yeah, I guess like is it the

happiness maybe be you should find joy, but maybe not, it's

not always. You're happy, right?

Yeah. Joy doesn't always equate to

happy, right? Yeah.

So like, I'm happy, happy, happy all the time.

No, that's, that's a really good point.

Yeah. Yeah, and this the psalmist goes

to say in verse 16. But when I when I thought of how

to understand this, it seemed to me a wearisome task.

And I feel like that's sort of like that's sort of the lot that

you're going to get. You know, it's like if if you

look to all these things, it's like, well, where does it end?

Right. Like if, if, if I'm not content

with what I have, that inherently means that once I get

the next thing, it's only a matter of time until I'm no

longer content with that thing. And then contentment becomes

this this nebulous thing that you're chasing.

And yeah, what a wearisome task, right?

So like if we don't find our contentment in Christ and it's

like we're just adding stress and worry and unnecessary.

Yeah, I just discontentment to our lives, right?

And then he says it was weary. So he's like, until I went into

the sanctuary of God, Then I discerned their end.

Then I then I looked at like, OK, well, for all the blessings

and the joy that these people are getting out of the things of

this life, well, what is the end goal of that?

Right? Right.

It's separation from God. And and then he realized, OK,

that's not worth it, you know? Yeah, 1 application.

I guess what I had written down I didn't have time for and that

was it. I, I found it similar to when

you're in a panic attack. When you're in a panic attack,

you just feel like you're going to die.

You feel like everything is crashing at this very moment and

you have to fix everything right now.

And if the same thing, if you're focusing on everything outside,

it seems so far away. It seems like you'll never get

there. But then by like, if you write

out like I'm feeling this way, I feel like I'm going to die right

now. I feel like if I drive my car

this way, I'm like something will happen.

And when you put it on paper, it almost seems silly that you're

scared of that and it can go. You can do the same thing with

thankfulness if you write out the things that you're thankful

for. I know that sounds kind of

cliche. I know that's like a a life

hack, quote UN quote, that I that are kind of corny.

But whether that's writing it out or or verbally praying about

it, I've found at least this is just my experience, that it puts

away some of that discontent and some of that jealousy that I can

find coming up. Like, OK, I have a house.

There's I have, I have shelter, I have food.

As it says in the Bible, we have food and clothing.

We should be OK. But yeah, the practical

application of writing it out, praying for it, this, the simple

things, it just, it helps bring you out of this.

I don't have this. I don't have this.

No, I I'm, I'm good. I'm centered.

Yeah, that's good. That's good.

I don't, I don't think cliches, that cliches are cliches because

they work. Like over time people have

determined that that works. And so like that's, that's

really helpful to think about. I'm just trying to think that is

this what he's doing? Is he riding out?

Like you just made me just like go down a rabbit hole.

Is, is, is this like a song just writing out everything that he

sees that's that's going wrong and then just reminding himself

that contentment comes from the Lord.

I don't know. It seems almost like that

though. It does seem like that it like

it seems like that I mentioned it, the axe prayer model that

like confession, like get this out in the open like it it

doesn't help to hide the way that I feel like I feel this

way. Yeah, at least I'm going to

confess it to God and he can deal with it.

And not in like a proud way, like, oh, I can feel whatever I

want, but like this is a genuine feeling.

Maybe it's a bit exaggerated to get a point across, but yeah,

it's it's writing it out and then saying, yeah, I can't

understand this. So I'm going to go over here to

the word and. Yeah.

Let those, let that go. It's really good.

Yeah, and you, so you mentioned something else towards, I think

this was towards the end of the sermon.

But you know, this idea of like when others hear us, do they

hear grumbling and complaining or do they hear contentment and

gratitude and sort of this idea of like, what do I want to be

known for, right? Like do I want to be known as

the guy that like whenever you hang around with me, it's like I

just Joe's always complaining about something.

He's always grumbling about something.

Joe rejects. What's Joe rejecting today?

And yeah. And it's like, yeah, it's like,

I don't want to be that, right? It's like, I want, I want to be

the person that when people leave a conversation with me,

they feel strengthened and edified and like pointed to

Christ probably would be the, that would be the number one

thing, right? It's like I'm just so turning to

Christ is my default that when people come to me with things,

it's like I helped them to turn to Christ as well.

And so yeah, I that was that was convicting for me, too.

That was again just shying the mirror back on myself and like

this is a problem I have so I'll just write it down.

Yeah, that's so much of preaching, right?

You you realize that like man, I'm preaching to myself more

than I have anybody else. Yeah, I'm sort of convicted by

your statement just just now, like just doing a little bit of

self reflection thinking about am I like, you know, a Debbie

Downer, negative Nancy, whatever, you know, am I am I I

know I was women's names. I'm sorry.

I'm not like doing that but like.

Yeah. Am I, am I that way or am I

happy and put on a happy face or like, you know, a certain air in

public and then I'm that way at home?

That's convicting to think about.

Do I just like unload on my wife and react to my family in a

negative way? So it's convicting to think

about. So.

Thanks for that, Joe, I said. Oh, got punched today.

I was, I was punching myself. So thanks a lot, Joel.

Why don't we? Why don't we invite this guy?

Yeah, that's why I'm here. No, we appreciate you being

faithful to the texts. Yeah, I, I, I'm so glad we have

these opportunities now on Sunday nights to, to give you

guys more reps because we believe that the Lord has gifted

you for teaching. I do anyway.

And it's been helpful for us to hear from you guys and give our,

give our congregation another voice.

That that's, that. Also, just the fact that, I

mean, Kyle spoke, you spoke, Ryan spoke, these guys are,

these are the guys who are like teaching our kids, right?

And so it gives us an opportunity to to see you in

action in some way and some level.

And so I'm, I'm just really, really grateful for for it.

And so, yeah. All right, I'll ask you the same

question I ask everybody after they've preached.

What's one thing or if there's this is the last time you can

talk about Psalm 73 in this context.

So is there something that you wanted to share that you didn't

get a chance to? You would think I would have

been prepared for this question because I have listened to all

your podcasts. I.

Never AM. I forgot I forgot to tell you

about it before SO. No, I don't think so.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I've read it before. I read it years ago and like,

seems every time I read it, it's just significant to my life at

that moment. A different part sticks out.

So now I just say read it, reread it, and live it out.

Yeah, verse verse 20, verse 22 in the CSP says I was stupid and

I didn't understand. I was an unthinking animal

towards you. Sometimes I need to like, say

that hey, wife in a text. Hey, Val, this is what I feel

right now. I'm so sorry.

You know, I was stupid, misunderstood.

Anyway, it's just so I don't know if the ESP says stupid or

not. Brutish.

Brutish. Yeah, even.

That's even better. I'm such a brute anyway, yeah,

very, very good choice, very good devotion.

We're grateful for you switching gears a little bit share with us

for like, I don't know, however long you want to you guys have a

podcast called Chat KJP. That's correct.

Sorry, I almost said ChatGPT. That's the point.

That's the point. It gets us thinking.

So are you guys an AI generated podcast or is it just share with

a little bit about that like the concept for your podcast?

We all like, like I mentioned it last episode, that's something I

really enjoy listening to, mainly because you have guests.

So tell us what's going on. Yeah, So strictly AI, No

original thoughts. No, the purpose of it was me and

Kyle. We're both curious people, I

guess, or at least we like to think we are.

And there's so many people that have what you would consider

maybe mundane jobs or jobs that you never heard of before.

And every time I talk to someone, like what's the first

thing you do when you get into a conversation with another guy?

Hey, how's it going? Good weather.

Hey, so how's work been? So right, it sends my news like

what do you do? Yeah, What do you do?

And so essentially that's what the podcast is.

It's just an excuse to ask people that question.

But in in a more serious sense, it's the podcasts of celebrities

and famous people. You, you kind of know what they

do. You, you hear them on every

other podcast, but you don't hear maybe a podcast of a

garbage man or a what are some that we've had?

We had a real estate agent, a butcher.

Aspiring teacher. Aspiring teacher, a maintenance

manager, all those different. A contractor.

We've had a few different ones. Or when you had a pastor on.

We had Pastor Jake on, so that was really good.

So yes, just being curious about what they do and maybe more

importantly, why they do it, what the motivation behind it

is, maybe what are the lessons or what are the qualities that

you need to be able to do something like that.

So it's can be helpful for maybe the younger generation.

I'd like to say I'm still there that that maybe are trying to

figure out what they want to do and maybe it can just be helpful

to anyone that like, oh, I've never thought of that before.

Yeah, to see what, to see what other people do.

It really wasn't for other people, I'll admit it.

It was pretty selfish that we just wanted to talk to people,

and I found that a good excuse. Hey, we have mics, so come talk

to us and we'll put it on. Put it on this.

Thing I think that's a great that's a great motivation

honestly for it because if it's interesting to you it's going to

be interesting to someone else like especially if you're

interested, it's going to make it compelling for sure So yeah,

I've I've been edified by it. This like listening listen to

you guys talk just you 2 it's fun.

I hear more from you then and that's good.

When you have a guest on sometimes, you know, obviously

the guest rules that that segment, but it's just been

really, really good. Yeah.

And I, well, I'm not, I'm not listening to them all, but I've

listened to a number of them and it's like sometimes I'm

surprised, like with the guests too.

I'm like, I know a lot of these people and I'm like, wow, I

would not have expected them to be like, as it sounds like

they're really bubbly, right, or outgoing or sharing their story.

And I'm like, wow, this is like, I, I am totally interested,

right? Because he like, I, I knew this

one guy back in the day and he would ask this question of

people that he would just meet. He would be like, if they would,

there was this one guy that we, he, his job was like a

watermelon delivery driver. I'm like what a random, what a

random job? But it sounds boring.

But the we were in a room and he said, tell me three things about

like the watermelon industry that like most people don't

know. And I thought like, what a great

question. You know, I don't really

remember his answers, but I thought that was a really cool

question because you're right, there's always things about no

matter how mundane the job is, there's things about that job

that are like, you know, most people don't know this, right?

Or it might surprise them or, you know, like there's just

things you don't expect, right? So I think the premise of the

show is really interesting. Yeah.

And like most people, it like talking about themselves and

they don't get that opportunity sometimes.

And not that we're by any means a good podcast.

We're starting out and we're trying to.

No, you're not a good podcast. You're a phenomenal podcast.

It's. Good stuff.

So trying to I think you can by trying to ask good questions

just like that question, it brings out the best in other

people and all of a sudden I know it for myself when people

ask me good questions, I just like, oh, OK, now I can go in on

whatever I'm doing right. I will say if anyone knows a

rodeo clown, that is the the profession I've been super

interested in. So shameless.

You can cut that out if you. Want no, we're not going to cut

anything in this podcast. That's part of our defining

anyway, as part of the the core of our podcast is we don't edit

anything. No, if you're willing to talk to

somebody remotely, I might have the answer for that.

If you can make it like a Zoom call like I know people.

So we'll see if I can think on that one for you.

That's a good connection. Yeah, but it is interesting

because The thing is about like when you may do moot, do a

mundane job, and to you, it feels like you just get used to

it, right? But to other people, it's still

interesting because they don't know, right?

And so, yeah, the idea that you get to share something that most

people don't know about. How does McDonald's make their

burgers you? Know why is the ice cream

machine always broke? Exactly.

That's great. Yeah.

No, just wanted to, I want to just take like let people hear

from you about it. I think it's something our

church members are doing. It may not be church related or

inherently Christian, but I think that I think you give a

Christian worldview in your, in your answers and in the

questions you ask, which make it make it seem it's, it's just

really good. So I appreciate it.

Yeah, I'd preface that saying not all our guests will be of

Christian faith, but me and Kyle both are.

And to that point too, I think what makes it good is the fact

of maybe Kyle and myself how different we are, but the fact

that we're still friends somehow.

Yeah, I'm just kidding. No, it's true.

We're we're different personalities.

And so I think it complements and we work well together in

that regard. For sure.

Well, very cool. So let's chat really quickly

about we had a sermon this last week.

Pastor takes out, which is makes it hard because we're not

hearing from him. So we won't do a recap of his

sermon. But we there was a few things

that we stood out the text to us that his illustrations were

good. Pastor Jake preached a sermon

from First Corinthians chapter 12.

1 Corinthians 12 · chapter mention

I believe it was continuing our conversation through that book

and this one specifically on gifts.

I think we're going to be talking about spiritual gifts

for the next several weeks at least.

It comes up here and there, but specifically talking about like

being one body, many parts make up one body, right?

I think his sermon title was, I forget many members, many gifts

in one body from chapter 12, verse 12 to 31.

So, Joe, what stood out as something that you wanted to

chat about? Yeah, there was a number of

them. I took a lot of.

I took a lot of notes, had a lot of questions.

One of the things that I thought of was he used like the idea,

like at the beginning of COVID, when everybody was sort of

stucked and locked at home and you couldn't come to church.

And he was, he used that as an illustration that like you

can't, how do you do church apart from the church, right?

And, and so I, I just sort of wanted to open it up to ask you

guys like I, I don't know if you guys had any experiences during

COVID. I, I remember feeling like, you

know, he shared a story of someone who sort of was like,

oh, it's great. You know, I get to sort of chill

in my bed with a coffee And, and I will say like I've been, I had

the complete opposite. I mean, we were in Louisville at

the time, Louisville, KY. And I just remember feeling like

this is the worst. Like this is awful.

Like, I cannot stand this. Like I, I want to be in the

like, like singing in my house by myself is the worst.

It's lame, It's lame, it's super lame.

And, you know, again, it, it maybe did the job that it was

supposed to do for the time or whatever.

And so we don't need to get into all that stuff, but all the

political side of it. But just for me, it was like, it

was so inadequate. It's like we, I need to be in

the church with the people connecting and singing together

and pouring our hearts to God together and hearing the

preached word and then talking about it afterwards.

And so I, yeah, I hated it. I don't know.

I. Think it was one of the IT was

it was enlightening for for us to see that the church isn't

just what we do, it's who we are right.

Like like you, all the elements were there like I, Joe and I

went to the same church in Louisville.

I was in Louisville as well. All of the same elements were

there. It was on a screen We had they

had the full band like they were social distanced.

They had the band. The problem with that is like

they're recording in the the mixer is mixed for a big room

and not like not a studio. And so the sound quality is not

the best, but they had that. And then they had, they had the

prayers, they had the sermon. All of the stuff was the same,

but it didn't feel the same. It didn't feel like church.

It felt like whatever, I can do this listening to a podcast or

listen to a recorded sermon. For me, it exposed that the

church, it showed me the reality that their church is not what we

do, it's who we are. So we're not the church unless

we're together. And that's sort of what I felt.

But I don't, I don't know what you about you, Joel.

Yeah, I felt the same way. Sometimes you don't realize how

much you'd miss something until it's gone.

Yeah, so that was. I realized also that I'm not

good at singing, so I need a big crowd to cover that up right.

Loud music, yeah, yeah, like that, that like my wife and

kids, they would stand up, you know, during the songs and I'm

just in the recliner. Just this is.

Horrible. I couldn't, I just couldn't get

into like, I don't know. It's like, but then that also

kind of exposes my heart to am I supposed to get into it?

Like, is it something for me? Like am I supposed to be feeling

a certain way in church and might, you know, so I'm just

trying to think these things through.

So for me, it's just like, yeah, it's not for me.

Like, I'm OK. Listen, I think listening to

sermons is helpful, right? But like, the whole service

being remote is you can't be the church alone.

Yeah, you just can't. And so, yeah.

Yeah, Yeah. Jake also started his sermon

with this idea of, like, we used to be like a front yard

community. Like, the world maybe was more

so in the West back then, where it's like people were in the

front yard and you'd see your neighbors playing in the front

yard and you can have conversations.

But now we've moved to, like, backyard communities, and it's

fenced in. And I felt super judged by that,

like, well, yeah, well, I guess. If you didn't have a fence,

let's be honest, if you didn't have a fence, your backyard

would be the parking lot of the church.

And so that would be kind of difficult at times.

Yeah, it is kind of funny because we, yeah, our, our

backyard, for anybody who doesn't know, our, our, we live

next door to the church. And so our backyard is adjacent

to the driveway. And so like 6 nights of the

week, there's something going on in the church.

And so there's a parade of cars driving.

You're like mowing the yard and you have to wave to everybody.

And so it was like, man, it would be great to have some

privacy. No, I'm, I'm kidding about being

judged, but I thought that was pretty funny.

It is true. You know, like we used to be far

more relational even in our communities than we are now.

And yeah, that's to our detriment, I think.

It reminds me of the social media podcast that you guys had

talking about we, we strive for it.

We, we long for community. I think like it's, I think it's

part of us, part of part of human nature.

It's part of what God like imaged on us.

We long for community, we long for relationship.

And, and like, when you take that away, like you, you do move

from like this slower pace of life to a faster pace of life.

Now we're backyard people where we used to be, front porch

people. And then so we, we, we reach

these devices that we carry around and these apps that

they've, that people have created.

And they say they want us to come together in community, but

it doesn't, it doesn't have the same effect.

It doesn't work. And so, yeah, I don't, I don't

know, we are meant to be together.

Like especially the church, you know, church community done

well, even done poorly, it's better than than nothing.

But done well, it is the IT is the magic of life, I think

church community. So yeah, it's good.

Joel, do you have a fence in your backyard?

No, I wish we have like 8 neighbors.

It's good. We're actually able to meet the

other day with our neighbors across the road just to sit down

and have a talk. And it kind of after Pastor

Jake's sermon, I thought the same thing like this is this is

nice. Did it make you want to get

rocking chairs and like be like Andy Griffith on the front porch

playing guitar for the neighbors?

Not necessarily maybe, but it was nice.

Nice. Yeah, that's.

Another illustration that stood out to me in Pastor Jake's

sermon was the illustration of this this tumor.

So it's a pretty gross like image, honestly.

But this lady who's starving, she has this massive growth of

rogue fat sales as cells is what the pastor Jake described it as.

And like, it was very vivid for me to think about, like the

members of the body going, some members of the body going rogue

and the effect that it had on the person, on the on the whole

body. And then like what that like

plays out. How does that play out in the

church? I don't know if you guys were

impacted by that illustration at all, but I felt like it was very

vivid. And once I got past like the,

the gross image of this person with this giant growth on the

side of her body, which was starving her, making her the

rest of her body look emaciated and just like gross.

Like I, I felt like, man, that is such a picture of like the

danger of rogue members in the, of the body of the Christ, you

know, body of Christ in the church.

So I don't know what you guys felt about that or hurt, you

know. Yeah, I had, I had, Yeah, that

struck me too. I mean, it's it's it's crazy.

I know, I know. He sort of closed with an

illustration of sort of that same idea that, you know, these

people who separate themselves from the body.

You're you're removing yourself from the benefits of those other

people, right. Like when you think about a

body, right, You if and if you're the arm and you separate

yourself from the well, now you lose the advantage of eyesight

and, and feeling and being able to walk and all these different

things. And so that is such a graphic

illustration even that Paul uses.

But you know, when we isolate ourselves from the body, we lose

the benefits of those of those members, right?

And so like, sort of to your point, it's like now both, now

both of you are suffering, right?

You're suffering because you're not benefiting from the body,

but the body's also suffering because they don't have you.

And so I, I think just points us back to the importance of being

connected, coming together and serving one another, you know,

for the sake of the whole body. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. This is helpful.

What stuck out to me there with that growth as Pastor Jake said

that it was destined for death from the beginning.

Yeah. Whether it is cut off and dies

or it kills its host, it can't survive.

And it's putting that into application of a church body or

yeah, I thought that was very vivid, put a good picture,

painted a good picture in my mind.

Yeah, I think it's just important.

That's that's why it's so important for us to be lashed to

the truth, right? To like be committed to

scripture, to committed to, to making disciples like, and then

it's like for our church being committed to this idea of

disciple making being like the DNA of the, of the church.

We believe that comes from scripture and like for, for us

to be unified in that it's very important for us to be like all

committed to the same goal, like in every ministry from like

children's ministry, youth ministry to the men's ministry,

women's ministry. Like whatever events we do, we

need to make sure that we're, we're trying to stay like

unified to one vision for the health of the church.

Because like you said, like if if all of a sudden men's

ministry decides to do something completely, totally different

and not be like not be part of that vision, it's destined for

death. Like it, it will not succeed and

it will drag down the rest of the church with it.

And so I don't think the men's ministry is going to do that.

But I'm just just trying to use it as an.

Example. Yeah.

So what do you think then? Like, I mean, let's maybe go

down that road of like direct specific application to our

church, right? Like what does this mean to like

the average church member? Like being connected to the

body? Like what?

Like what? Like at LEMC, what does that

look like? How would we encourage people to

be connected to the body so that you are experiencing the

benefits of that body, but also that you can be a benefit?

Silence. Yeah, I don't want to.

I don't want to take from anyone else.

I have ideas but don't do anything.

No, I'm still thinking. It's OK to still think, Yeah, I

think like first of all, like be here, like, like that's the

first step, right? Like like be present, like come

to Sunday morning worship. And then when you're here,

participate in Sunday morning worship.

The second thing I would say is like being part of the body is,

is finding a place to plug in, whether in in service that like

we talked about last time we talked, we talked about like,

like actions and like talents are not our gifts necessarily,

but like find somewhere that you can serve other people in the

church. I think that's the that's the

second thing. And then like being here also

when we're here at other times, like don't just make Sunday

morning the only time that you come together.

Like we, we offer all sorts of things throughout the year,

specifically on Wednesday nights.

As far as corporate things that go, you know, we have we have

like studies that we're doing. You're doing one on the big

picture of the Bible right now. I'm doing one on personal

spiritual disciplines and and everyday holiness and Pastor

Jake's doing well on parenting. Be here, come be a part of it.

Because honestly, more important than the stuff we're teaching,

the conversations that we have afterwards, the things that that

that we discuss between the in the between times, right in that

space that's between and before, like before the thing and after

this, the teaching. Those are those are also very

beneficial, a way that you can stay plugged in and like I, I

don't know about you, but like I've been approached and maybe

it's because of my position, but I don't think so.

I think it's just because we're, we're all seeking the Lord like

approached with prayer request and like questions about like

how, like how they should approach some something going on

in their life. And I've I've heard that from

others in our church too, that like, and I've seen it.

I've seen people praying for each other after a teaching like

be here. That's the number one thing I

think that dudes like, if you want to be separate from the

body, the the fastest way to this just not show up.

Yeah. I don't know.

Did that spur any like thoughts in your mind, Joel?

Yeah, I like that, the idea of action.

Again, I don't want to put my own experience on anyone else,

but I'll think myself into circles.

I'll just ruminate on a thought. What do I, what should I do?

Should I do this? Should I do that?

What are the pros or the cons? And then a month, two months,

six months, a year will go by and I'm still thinking I should

just just do something right, just commit to an action.

And yeah, I like that. Yeah, I think that's that's a

good point too. Like just try, you know what I

mean? Like just try something like put

yourself out there and if it doesn't, if it's not something

that you find beneficial, try something else.

Don't give up in that moment, Right.

So that's good. Yeah.

And this and this goes back to the whole point of like as if,

as if us as a church are just trying to fill a position.

And then once we get you in there, we're going to like lock

the door and like, oh, now you're stuck here forever, like.

We did like we did to Joel in college.

Frank and Anthony for life in the youth department.

That is not the goal. Like the goal is to find the

area that you're gifted in so that you feel empowered to do

that. And that's the thing, right?

Like you can sort of tell like if you're serving in an area of

ministry and it's like, oh, another meeting.

Oh, this is driving me. Not like I, this is, don't get

me wrong there. Maybe maybe you do have someone

who's just calling Shaban meetings.

I don't know. But, but the point is that it's

like, if you love what you're doing in the area that you're

serving, and even if that is like an usher, a parking lot

attendant or whatever, and you're just like, man, I just

love greeting people and saying hi and showing them where to

park and, and being that first person that meets them, then it

doesn't, then the sacrifice means nothing to you.

You're like, I'll get up early in the morning, I'll skip

breakfast, I'll go there like, because I want to do that.

But it's like, if you hate every second of it, then by all means,

we would encourage you. You have not found the area that

you should be serving in. And we would encourage you to

find that right area. And so it is about finding an

area that you feel gifted and empowered in and you will want

to serve, You will want to do it.

Yeah, yeah. So find a place, show up first,

right? And then find a place to plug

in. I think those are like 2 easy

ways. And then of course, like we're

going to always suggest discipleship groups.

I think you're in a sub ship group too.

So like I think that that's that's where you're going to

grow the most as far as your own personal spiritual life goes.

If you're not growing in that, maybe the group's not right and

you need to figure out that too, like switch the group up,

whatever. But it's important for us to

like be in the word together. Like I think that's the one way

you're going to grow together. Is, is being in the word

together. We're reading the same plan.

We're we're we're journaling on the same scripture.

And and like what Joel finds in like, so say your song, what

stood out to you is, is like the primary point, like it might not

be what stood out to me most in that.

And like what I've, what I come to it from and you bring to it.

And we come to this, this idea. We can just talk to talk about

it. And maybe maybe you correct me.

And that's, that's a good thing, right?

It's not like knowing all the answers.

It's about being like teachable and and sharpening one another,

rubbing off the hard the the rough spots as we work together

to for unity. Yeah, I think that's great.

And I think I think because both of those things are important.

And as far as being connected to the body, which is 1, you know,

come to Sunday morning, come to Wednesday night Bible study in

both of those areas, it's like you will be taking in, you will

be being fed in the discipleship group, same thing.

You are going to be receiving the benefits of being connected

to the body. You're going to grow spiritually

through other people's gifts and then finding opportunities to,

to then serve and to use your gifts for others.

And, and I want to just quickly make a distinction between like

like acts of service as far and, but also like maturing the body

because I think I think too often we can go like, OK, well,

I come to church, so I receive the spiritual benefit and then I

stack chairs and that's how I serve.

And that's great. Stacking chairs is great.

We need people to stack chairs at times, right?

A lot of times. I remember hearing Tim Hawkins

say he's like, you never want someone to come up to you and

say you have the gift of service because you know what that

means. They're going to turn around.

And say we need somebody to start stacking.

Triggers but but in my mind it's like your service to others is

to help them grow in their faith.

Like you should never see yourself as being less than

someone who someone else can grow from like you said.

Whether that's praying for someone after the service or

sharing an insight from Scripture or something that

God's been showing you. If you've had a conversation

with me in the last month, you've probably heard me talk

about John chapter 6. I've been sharing this with

John 6 · chapter mention

everybody. You know, when, when Jesus says

to Philip, Hey, where are we going to get enough food for all

these people? And it's like, I've been

applying that to the life of our church.

It's like God seems to be giving our church growth right now.

And it seems to be that God's, you know, nudging us on the

shoulder going, it's like, Hey, what are you going to do with

all these people? And so it's like, how, how, what

are you learning in God's Word and how can you share that with

other people and how can you grow them and grow their faith?

And so don't just see yourself as like, you know, changing

light bulbs, stacking chairs, but like you could you actually

have something in your spiritual life that other people can

benefit from? And they're not going to grow

the way they should until you're doing that because, you know, we

can't reach everybody, right? Sort of along those lines, what

would you guys say to someone who has been coming to this

church for maybe decades and they don't feel connected, like,

like they don't feel connected to the body.

They, they, they're just, they've made me feel like

they're, they're part of the body just because they've always

been part of the body, but they're not, they're not feeling

connected. What would you, what would you

encourage that person to do or what would you like encourage

the church to do for those people?

Yeah, I, I, I have, I'll, I'll give you a moment to thank Joel.

I have, I have two things in my mind.

What one is 1 is our obligation as pastors.

You know, we're the shepherds. And so we need to be, we need to

be doing what we can to give people opportunities to make

connections. And so there's an element to

like, if our people aren't connecting, what, what role are

we playing in that? Right.

And so, and the other element is like your personal

responsibility, you know, like, you know, if if you're coming to

church is just to stand in the corner and wait for someone to

come and then you leave and you say nobody came and talked to

me. My question is going to be,

well, did you go talk to anybody else?

Because I think it's easy for people to look at, you know, a

person like me and think like, oh, well, it's easy for him.

And, and you know, granted I'm a pastor, it's not easy for me.

I, I feel just as uncomfortable as anybody, right?

Like starting a new conversation.

It's like it's hard and it's awkward.

And I put my foot in my mouth more times than I can count

because of, you know, you're, you feel that tension.

But I just make it my mission to go, all right, I'm done talking

to this person. They left, they walked out the

door. I turn around and go, OK, who?

I'll go talk to that guy. And I just walk around and I do

that. And it's literally just that

simple. And so I want to, I want to take

the responsibility that we have to be able to give people

opportunities to make connections, but also recognize

that each person you know, you, you can take a step and, and

it's uncomfortable, I know, but you can take a step too and

start a conversation, get to know some folks and, and try to

make some connections. Yeah, I think you said pretty

good, not an ad there. No, I mean, I know like there

are quiet people in our church, right?

Like Joel, before I like, like before I got to know you, I

would consider you like one of the quiet people in the church

just standing over here. I'm talking to one person at a

time. And and that's it's fine.

Get to know. So what?

Once you get to know somebody, you feel more comfortable with

them. And, and I think that's just a,

that you have to take a step to, to make that connection.

Like the other thing is don't be so busy and ready to get out of

here. Like, like that would be what

I'd recommend too. If you're not, if you're not

connecting with the church, I'm asking you, well, how long do

you hang around after the church service is over?

Do you go grab your kids and just bolt to your car because

you got to go do whatever, then you're not going to be connected

to the church. And so, yeah, I noticed that

Joel's almost always the last one to leave, which is good.

It's good because like what you're giving yourself the

opportunity to do, though, is to have a conversation with

someone, a meaningful conversation with people.

And so, and I've even noticed there's a couple of newer people

that are here and they're, they're like fighting Joel and

Courtney to be the last people out the door.

And it's good. I think that's like a good

example. But I think you're right, Joe.

I think like the onus is on, it's on us as pastors to like do

our best to connect people. But at the end of the day, the

responsibility to connect is on you.

Like you have to, you have to reach out and you never know.

But the reason that other people aren't reaching out might be the

same reason you're not, they're shy or they don't, you know,

whatever. I don't know.

But anyway, I thought it was just a good, you're not

connected to the body, you feel like you're not well, what are

you doing about it? So.

Yeah. And I and I will say too, it's

like our our foyer is. The worst foyer?

No foyer. It is literally the worst, OK?

It is like you're you're you got 250 people in a sanctuary and

then you funnel them like an hourglass through this like

narrow hallway and it's like it's crowded.

It's loud. My ears are ringing.

If I'm having a conversation in there, it hurts.

And it's like people, some people I think just can't stand

it. And I I totally understand that.

And sometimes I'll just be like, hey, let's go in the sanctuary.

I was. Thinking about the young adults,

when you said that you you're looking for young adults after a

service, just go back in the sanctuary.

They're all just hanging on there still.

But yeah, and I and so there. But there are more intimate

times that our church meets, right?

Like on a Wednesday night, there's a little bit less people

here. It can be quite busy on a

Wednesday night too, that every like once a month we're trying

these Sunday nights. And so that's a more intimate

gathering. And so maybe find an opportunity

to come back to the church where it's a little bit less crazy,

not as many folks around. And so that could give you an

opportunity to make some other connections for sure.

So. For sure.

Well, that's good. I think that's all really

helpful. Without Jake here, I can't ask

him the question that I asked you.

What's one thing, you know, maybe Jake can call into the

radio program and let us know. But yeah, so one I kind of

wanted to end on, I started something last week and I feel

like now we have to keep it going is and that means we have

to share things we like. And so Joel, you're our guest

today. So what's one thing you like

that you'd like to share with everybody?

Yeah, Pastor Joe, I think, put it in the Signal chat a few

weeks ago, the book Knowing God by Ji Packer.

So I've been listening to that, not reading it.

Joe was very clear that those weren't the same thing.

But he but he counts them in his in his book reading on the app.

I'll do the same, so I do. Count as a book you read.

Yes, I've been reading that in very small portions.

It's like eating something that's very heavy.

I can't understand everything at once, so just been listening to

short bits and then ruminating. Awesome.

So yeah, that's been good. Yeah, Knowing God.

I would recommend Knowing God as well as a resource for you

podcast listener. Joe yeah, I am.

I'll highlight the book that I've been going through in our

Wednesday night study. It's called God's Big Picture, a

Bible Overview. And what this book does is it

just sort of takes, it's making the basic argument that the

whole, but the whole Bible, even though it's 66 different books

by 40 different authors over the span of, you know, 2000 years or

whatever, that it's, it's one story.

It's an overarching story of God's plan of redemption.

And so he begins by talking about like the pattern of the

Kingdom. Everything was perfect in the

garden. And then the perished Kingdom,

sin entered the world. And then there was the promised

Kingdom where God promises to make Abraham a great nation.

And then you have the partial Kingdom, which is where some of

these things are fulfilled in the people of Israel.

And then there's the prophesied Kingdom.

But it's like it. But it's.

But they're still failing, right?

Israel's still failing. And so there's a prophesied

Kingdom coming about Christ, right?

Yeah. And that's the present Kingdom,

which Christ ushers in this new Kingdom of people who have his

spirit. And we're going to go on in the

next couple weeks to talk about the proclaimed Kingdom, which is

a coming Kingdom in the future and the perfected Kingdom.

And so anyway, it's just, it's been a it's been an amazing book

to see how all these tie things tie together.

And you and you shared a photo with me.

Yeah, the other day of all of like the cross references.

In the Bible. Of the Bible to itself, right?

And it's like this giant rainbow.

Yeah, well, they color code the lines and so.

Yeah, and they put it in an arc and it's like the rainbow.

And it's just showing how the Bible's all connected, right?

They're they're not disjointed books that that have no relation

to one another, but it's like they all are tied together.

Telling the same story. Telling the same.

Story. Yeah.

So God's big picture, it's a study, but it's also, there is

also a book, it's basically biblical theology.

So it's really, really good and very helpful for me.

I would say The Joy of Hearing by Thomas Shriner in our Bible

reading plan, we just got to Revelation.

And this is a complicated, complex book for a lot of

people, but Doctor Shriner, he makes it, He makes it seem

joyful, like it's about Christ. And it's just a great book to

read to supplement any kind of study in Revelation.

Yeah, he get, he doesn't get too much into the controversial

things. His point in that book is is

pointing to Christ. And so it's really, really good.

So, yeah. So those are things we like.

We'll put a link to all of those things in the show notes.

Yeah, I think that wraps up our time.

Anything else Joe you want to add?

Yeah, I just want to bounce just for a second off of the

revelation. I I.

We talked about this. We're not getting into

controversial things. Within 6 minutes I'm.

Sorry, not no, not controversial.

I just I was struck by so again at the beginning of revelation,

it's like this is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which is a

helpful reminder to us. It's like all these things are

coming as a result of Christ and the authority that he now has

given to him by God. And so, but in verse three, it

says, blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this

prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and who keep what is

written in it, for the time is near.

And I, that struck me so much. And it has shaped every single

chapter that I've read so that I'm like, we're blessed if we

read it, if we hear it, and if we obey it.

It's a book to be obeyed. Yeah, it's not a book to be

dissected. And you know what ruler of the

world today correlates with what ruler in the No, This is a book

that is supposed to lead us into worship of our Savior that we

are to obey. And so every single chapter I'm

looking for something to be obedient to and I, and it's,

it's transformed me, right? It transformed and it is a book

about the future, right? But it's transforming me from

like just looking ahead or looking around me to going,

there's something in this for me to actually obey.

And so I, I just wanted to give that as an encouragement to the

church that and I get there's going to be all that other stuff

and whatever, but don't focus on all those external things like

focus on your heart and how you can be obedient.

Yeah, One example of that, not focusing on the external things,

like, right. So like in chapter 4, it talks

about the 24 elders who who have their Thrones around the throne,

right. Yeah.

But what are they doing? Yeah.

Like that's not important for us to, like, think about who they

are, right. And like why they have a why

they have a certain higher position than others in heaven.

That's interesting, but it's not the point.

The point is that what are they doing?

Like says that there are creatures who who were created

that to do this constantly to sing our holy, holy, holy hymn,

right? Where we get that from?

They do it non-stop. And then it says while they're

doing that every time they're doing that.

So non-stop, the elders are praising God face down around

the throne. And the the point is for us to

worship. So that's the thing.

We should obey. It's just really exciting to see

that. And when you look at it like,

like, what am I supposed to do with this instead of like, can I

figure this out? And when this is happening, who

is this is, what is this? What is this supposed to do?

What is this teaching me about Christ?

And what am I supposed to obey here?

I think it's such a good, good reminder.

So, yeah, that's our revelation minute.

So Revelations, that's only one revelation.

Yeah. Joel, thank you for taking the

time out of your busy day. You took off work to come in

here for lunch and it's been longer than lunch, so we

appreciate you to making a sacrifice to be with us today.

Yeah. Thank you for having me on here.

Yeah, we've been really appreciating this podcast.

It's been really good. Well, we hope to do it again,

like we'll bring you on again as another guest.

So. So be ready for that.

Yeah. Joe, thanks again for for

joining me. Pastor Jake, we missed you.

We look forward to to another conversation again next week.

Until then, LMC, we're praying for you.

We love you. Reach out with your questions.

We're happy to answer them. Have a great week.