Beyond Sunday Season 2 Episode 7

Welcome to Beyond Sunday. That's the way Joe introduces

it. When he does it, he goes.

Welcome to Beyond Sunday you. Got to have that cool cadence.

Welcome. Welcome to Be on Sunday podcast

that is based on the preaching ministry of Leamington EMC.

I am Jonah, and I'm joined today as always by it.

Joe's not here. So today, I'm joined by two

guests who have been on the podcast before.

One of them is Ryan Fair. Yep.

I was going to say Kyle Barch first.

And then I was like, that might make your head too big.

Yeah. And so I didn't.

No, you're right. I didn't want to give you too

much pride in your life trying to trying to help you.

Yeah, man, he's working. Yeah, we all need help with

humility. God's been humbling me in ways

that I never could have expected.

Good. Kyle's got a real face for

radio. I do.

Watch it. You're making like now you're

making Yvonne's judgment. No, she.

Knows what she's doing. OK, yeah, so Joe is on vacation

and Pastor Jake is out this week and so I have asked for the B

team to come in. No, they're not.

They're great, Ryan. The reason?

Well, it was great because it worked out really, really good

for that to happen. Because Ryan had family night.

He did the little devotion sermon at sermon, whatever you

want to call it. It was a good sermon, 2 pointer,

2 point sermon in Colossians chapter 4.

Colossians 4 · chapter mention

And then Pastor Jake preached sermon from Nehemiah, which

we'll talk about first. His sermon was from Nehemiah,

Nehemiah 6 · chapter mention

chapter 6, almost at 7:00. Again, we're talking about 7.

I'll be preaching from Chapter 7 next week, so that'll be fun.

But yeah. So Pastor Jake's sermon was

called Don't Give in to Threats and Distractions.

Was that the name of the sermon? I'm so.

Familiar. Yeah, that was it.

He had four points, the attack of deception, the attack of fear

and intimidation, the religious attack and then vindicated by

God. Yeah, So in the in the book, he

said he did give us a quite a bit of context as he opened

discernment, which was helpful giving like the whole overview,

like where we are to this point. And then he this is when we get

that that the wall is finished in 52 days, which is is

incredible to think about, like he it hadn't been finished.

Over a century had passed since they came back it.

Was a month and 1/2 and. He did it in, yeah, 52 days.

That was pretty incredible. But yeah, we get we get a famous

verse. Nehemiah 6 three is like he's

sending messengers back to Sambalot and he says, he says

I'm doing a great work and it cannot come down.

And I think that like, Pastor Jake picked up on that, like

being like, we can't be distracted.

And now I think that was his main point.

Don't be distracted from your main mission.

And so, yeah, I just felt like it was, it's a it's a great

passage. And I think Pastor Drake said

that, too. He's like, this is a great

passage of Scripture. Anyway, what do you guys think?

Yeah, I really liked it. It spoke to me in a way that,

like a lot of, you know, sometimes you kind of just idly

sit through a sermon or whatever because whatever reason in your

life. But I don't know, like I've been

feeling particularly distracted in my own life recently.

And so it kind of felt like it was just really good timing,

like trying to distract. Sorry, could you repeat that

because I was a little distracted?

No, yeah. Absolutely.

I can. No, I don't know.

I think that like he talks a lot about like specific distractions

that take away from ministry or like from the spiritual growth

of your life and that kind of stuff.

And I think that he gave some like tangible examples at the

end, you know, things like worry and like anxiety and fear.

I don't remember him saying it, but specifically I'm thinking

like comfort recently or just like idle kind of like little,

little pleasures here and then you.

Don't mean comfort, like comfort in a hard time.

You mean like I'm just taking the comfort of my life too

seriously? Right.

Yeah. Like surrounding yourself with

comfort kind of primarily, you know, seeking after, you know,

that next Netflix series instead of seeking after that next, you

know, chapter of the reading plan.

You know, I don't know, I feel like it was a good time for me

to hear that sermon because I'm kind of in a weird sort of

groggy season. Yeah, well, maybe some like, I

don't know, it's cold in Ontario right now.

And so and and so you feel like you're stuck indoors.

You just go to work, you come home, you don't really, there's

nothing to do. So it's like, you know, maybe

the Netflix is the next thing, right?

So, yeah, that's good. That's good.

What about you, Ryan? I liked it.

It was, yeah, it was good. He, I I really liked his second

and Third Point, the attack of fear and intimidation and then

the religious attack. I like how on the second point,

it really pointed out, like, we shouldn't always stay silent.

Like Nehemiah, he was constantly sending messengers back and,

like, countering, like they claimed, like, oh, hey, we're

gonna go tell the king. Like, we're gonna tattle on you,

right? He's like, OK, like I didn't do

anything wrong. Right.

So I thought that was kind of cool.

Like, you know, sometimes people always say like, oh, you know,

religion is separate from whatever.

Like, no, this is, this is our whole life, right?

Like we, we should, we should want not stay silent.

We should like stand up for what we believe in, right?

Like first Peter talks. About.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I think like that. That's good.

Nehemiah had a conviction. Yeah.

Like, and he had, he felt like he had like a job that was given

to him from the Lord. Yeah.

And that's why when he says I'm doing a great work and I cannot

come down, he's like, I'm not going to let anything distract

me from what the Lord has called me to do.

Yeah, especially, especially these guys.

Like these guys have been the troublemaker since the beginning

of the book, right? We've learned it.

We've heard Sambalot's name several times.

Yeah, it's a kind of a weird name, Sambalot.

So. There's no way that's how it's

actually pronounced, but like. Well, for sure, because I'm from

the deep, Deep South. We're from the the cold cold N

so. We we got it all wrong.

Yeah. But but, yeah.

So I mean, he the, the important thing is like he's not

distracted and like the application for us is like,

what? What is the thing we should be

focused on? Yeah.

Something I really liked about the Third Point too was like I

never really thought about the idea that like distractions can

come from a religious sort of point of view, like people, that

people can weaponize what seems pious to cause distractions or

to interview with God's plan, which that blew my mind a little

bit. I don't know why.

It seems kind of like self-explanatory, but like, I

don't know, you just kind of think that like if someone's

saying to you like, hey, we're a part of, you know, the religious

body, you know, we have this idea.

We just want to meet with you about, you know, specifics on

things. It's interesting to see the

perspective of, like, that could be a distraction in of itself,

pulling people away from doing the actual work that's actually

happening. And I think that especially

being in, like, in the church setting, that can tend to happen

with like, you know, meetings where it's like, I'm not in

these meetings, but yeah, you are.

And I just can't imagine, like, I just in my mind, see these

meetings where it's like, all right, we'll pray about it for

another six months, or we'll pray about it for another eight

months, you know what I mean? And prayer is a good pious thing

to do. But I sometimes wonder if like,

it's used as a way to kind of prolong the work that needs to

get done. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people, like, I think that goes back to

maybe fear as well. Like people will put things off

out of their own fear, like not, they're not trying to like use

fear to intimidate you like in the past year, but like they use

like this that, you know, fear that like a lot of people just

I'm not one of these people. I'm just being honest, but a lot

of people are really afraid of change.

Like and so and that's, that's completely understandable.

Like because you've seen something the way it's always

been. And then like, there's this guy

that comes and he says we should do it this way and like, without

like taking the time to process it and really figure it out.

And that's a lot of people are just afraid of change.

Oh. Yeah, well, and like, even for

me, like I, I am not very like, quick to change.

Yeah, even in my personal life. But it goes back to what Jake

said too in the sermon, where it's like that fear is that it's

almost like the fear is like the motivating distraction that

leads to like the physical distraction.

It's like the fear and the anxiety that he mentions the end

of his sermon. It's almost like those all three

points ultimately those kind of boil down to like a core reason,

like where it's like the fear a person has or the anxiety that a

person might have on something. Those bring out the physical

aspects of distraction, whether it be through like being devious

or what was the word deceptive? Deceptive.

That's the one. Like the the Decepticons you

know. Like they were like

Transformers. Yeah.

Well, like, yeah, exactly. Like whether that ends up being

coming out as deceptive or whether it comes out through

intimidation or whether it comes out through false piety.

I know that even too. Like the last time Jake

preached, I remember him saying too, that like, how many people

go around and just. We'll tout off, you know, pious

platitudes. Does that actually meaning

anything, right? It's it almost like those three

things can kind of boil down to like those fear and those

anxiety. Responses yeah, I think

honestly, I think that like, I mean this in the in the MI, I

think like the the motives are definitely nefarious, right like

like, but he was they were acting out of fear, right.

Like if Israel did become more powerful and they did

reestablish themselves in the area in the region, then their

economic whatever they've got going on would would decrease.

So I mean these these guys are acting out of fear for their own

like livelihood as well. And so but I think like like my

wife tells me all the time that you know Jonah, I know you get

really excited about new things and you like new, new things and

change what you got to dial it back a little bit because you're

making me a little bit crazy right now.

And so like, you know they're people like me have to recognize

that that people who are slow to adopt or or maybe are afraid of

change. We have to we have to like

slowly think like step back and we do have to allow some time.

But on the other side, people who love like are they like the

things keep the things the same way all the time myself.

Yeah. Don't like change.

They also need to like step like into it and think about it.

Like give give it some like some real thought, not just like put

up this hard wall. Yeah, exactly.

Well, yeah, meet in the middle or just like both of you have to

sort of like understand that there's something on the other

side that has like real reasons for what they're doing.

Yeah, yeah. And not get.

Frustrated with each other from the perspective of someone

that's kind of worried for change.

It's easier said than done though, for sure.

I I don't know, your process is probably the same thing.

It's probably easier said than done to kind of hold.

Off Oh yeah, yeah, you wouldn't you just hate life most of the

time it's like, oh, can't we just do whatever I know will

work and then yeah. So you just get, you get.

It's it's difficult. Well, it's hard to because like

from this, from the other perspective, it's like, why do

we have to do, Why do we have to deviate from the things that we

already know will work? And you have the same place

where it's like, I, I'm pretty sure this will work too.

So I don't know, you're right. It's kind of, it depends on, I

think that there's a, there's a fear on both fronts there that

you have to kind of monitor. But I think it comes back to the

conviction. So like what?

What is the conviction of the work that you're doing?

So like that. That to me is like the the

reason, Like who? Whatever side, like if there is

two sides, whatever side comes out on top, like the conviction

is going to be the strongest. Yeah.

Like that conviction is the strongest.

And so like in Nehemiah here, I'm doing an important work, a

great work, and I cannot come down to bother with you like I'm

doing this. And so like, like we have to be

willing to to be conviction about certain things.

And I think like Pastor Jake was in his sermon, he was talking

specifically our convictions are around the gospel, right?

As a, as a, a Christian Church, as an evangelical church, then

our, our goal and mission is to give the gospel to as many

people as as we can hear it, right.

And so I think that's what we we have to be dead, like dead

focused on that as a church. And, and I, I thought it was a

really good sermon. I honestly, yeah, it was, it's

something that's well needed. Like we don't need to be

distracted. For sure, 100%.

Yeah. And be aware, like, that's the

other things. Be aware the attacks can come

from from all different angles. And then like from inside, from

outside, from like, what you think, like you said, Kyle, like

for what it might be, what you expect to be very, very good.

Yeah. Right, well, and not only that,

like sorry, Ryan, I want you to talk to, but like from the

inside. Like it's interesting he

mentions that too, because like obviously we anticipate attacks

from the outside, right? Because of the world, we to an

extent, we also anticipate attacks from the inside of the

church because churches are messy.

They're run by people. Yeah.

But the reality too is that like attacks from inside our own

hearts, right? Like we are, we are constantly

fighting the flesh. Yeah.

Like we are new creations with a new with a new.

We're new creations and we are fighting the old self

constantly. And so kind of speaking to

myself for someone who isn't like more adverse to change,

I've been really trying to be more open to things and trying

to like change that perspective because I understand that like,

you know, there is a, there is something inside of me that I

have to fight against to actively in scripture or like in

the spiritual sort of sense because I'm a Sinner.

And so sometimes these are, I know you heard it here first,

folks, but like, you know, but you know what I'm getting at,

like sometimes being comfortable and kind of let's goes back to

the season that I'm in right now, kind of huddling in for

comfort. It's it's a desire for me to

stay to like my fleshly side. And so sometimes the adverse to

change that I feel and the fear I have from it, it comes from

that same place where it's like a desire to stay comfortable, a

desire to not have to fight those fleshly desires.

And so I thought that it was a cool distinction to think about

attacks from the outside, outside of the building, inside

of the building. But I think it's important also

for all of us to recognize that there is also attacks from

inside of our own hearts. No, that's good.

And it's biblical. I was.

You made me. You had me thinking about Romans

7. I know I was distracting you

when you were talking as I was turning my Bible here.

So you're good. Sorry about that.

But like Paul says in Romans 7, he's like 7/18.

For I know that nothing good dwells in me that is in my

flesh. For I have the desire to do what

is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is

what I keep on doing. And then he says, now if I do

what I do not want, it's no longer I who do it, but sin that

dwells in me. So yeah, you're a Sinner.

You point. You picked up on that.

It's almost like you've read this before and you thought on

that before. So I find it to be a law that

when I do what it that when I do, excuse me, when I want to do

right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God

in my inner being, but I see my members another law, waging war

against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of

sin that dwells in my members. And it's not to say that like

remaining the same or liking the liking what you got going on or

like maybe being adverse to change is necessarily wrong.

It just goes back to what you said.

Yeah, what it like, what is the motivating?

Factor. We have to have that conviction.

Right. Yeah.

What's the conviction behind it? Well, and at the end of the day,

too, like our conviction as Christians is it's God's word,

right? So like, no matter whether

you're adverse to change or whether like I'm, I'm more with

Jonah, like I'm, I'm willing to change anything in my life, like

good for you. But but at the end of the day,

like, is it scriptural, right? Is it scriptural to sit back?

Is it scriptural to move? Well, we got to do what?

What God's Word. Tells us to do our convictions

need to be based on the word? And that's what we see Nehemiah

doing, right? He's just constantly like, no,

I'm doing what God has instructed me to do, right?

Yeah. That's right.

Yeah. We're going to see in seven that

he sets up, He's setting up, he's setting something up

because in chapter 8, we get one of the like most famous passages

in the Bible where Ezra stands and they all get together and he

reads the law. But he can't do that without

what what Nehemiah does in Chapter 7.

So that's a teaser for next week.

And then yeah. What are your guys final

thoughts on Nehemiah because we got to move to what you did on

family night. I like Nehemiah.

Nehemiah. Yeah, Nehemiah.

Yeah, I thought, yeah, it's great.

Great job, Pastor Jake, on the sermon and it's really helpful

for all of us. So yeah, so we'll move on.

Yeah, is good with you guys. Yeah, we don't edit on this

podcast, so if you're ready to move on, we can move.

On Thumbs up man, I'm happy. OK, thumbs up or not, it's not a

video. It's not a video podcast.

So yeah, so thumbs up. OK, we're moving on.

Pulled up. My notes.

Although if you are interested in video podcasting, I have had

someone ask me, could we put it on YouTube?

And I'm like, I don't know. My, I have a like again, Kyle

has a face for radio and so do I.

We can't all be like Joe Penner and Ryan Fair, you know, the

good looking handsome guy. So some guys get it all exactly.

Ryan, you did preach from Colossians 4.

I'll try to turn there if I can find it.

Colossians chapter 4 verses 2 to 4 verses 2:00 to 4:00.

Colossians 4:2–4

So why don't you give us like a rundown of what you talked about

last night? Yeah, I mean.

Today's Monday, by the way. This will be dropping on

Wednesday. So last night is, yeah, that

makes sense. Just making sure that everybody

was on the same page. That's good.

So yeah, it's, I mean, 3 verses, but basically, yeah, there was

two points. One was our posture and prayer

and one was like specific prayer for missionaries and church

leaders. And so just kind of flushing

that out on like how we should like, act in our prayers and

then, yeah, who we should pray for.

So who should we pray for? Everybody.

Everybody. And this.

Passage specifically missionaries and church leaders.

Yeah, which was the reason for our gathering last night, right?

Exactly. And that that's why we chose

this passage. The missions committee mentioned

it to me. And so I thought it was a great

idea. Yeah.

And so yeah, it because, yeah, I was specifically for the

missionaries that we would end up praying for that are.

Conference sports. Yeah, that's good.

I liked how you opened. You gave some good context about

prayer. Like I didn't know these stats,

so I thought were really helpful that 300 plus times prayer,

pray, praying the words, specific words are mentioned in

the Bible and then there's 650 recorded prayers.

It's pretty awesome. And then we have 25 of those

that our Lord Jesus prayed, which is really, really, I

thought that was that's helpful context.

Like believers should be praying people, right?

We should be praying people. We should be talking to the

Lord. So I I thought that was really,

really good context to set up for, for it.

Yeah, Yeah. Go ahead.

I was going to say I read this book not that long ago by JC

Rile called the Do You pray? Great book.

And I just thought of this quote, which was like, you can

be very sure that people fall in private long before they fall in

public. And like, I don't know, I, I

really like the emphasis that we have on family nights that's

like geared towards prayer because it feels like that's

like the one discipline that everyone knows they should do,

but because everyone has easy access to it, nobody does it,

you know what I mean? Yeah, it is.

It is the easiest and the hardest thing to do.

Well, that's what I mean. It's the easiest to do.

It's the hardest to discipline. Yeah, I, I, I find it hard to do

as well, like because of my pride and the, the sin in my

heart, right. Going back to Romans 7, that war

inside me, the flesh and then the and then the spirit that's

in me that that are that are battling it out.

Yeah. So I find it to be it is easy

like I would, I like I it is easy to do, but it's also very

hard for a prideful person like myself to do like to because

what you're doing in that moment is you're you're submitting

yourself to God and you're saying I'm you're God and I'm

not right. So, yeah.

And really, yeah. JC Ryo, RYLE, for those

listening. Exactly.

Look that up. What's the book called?

Do you pray? Do you pray?

Yeah. And like going back to that

quote, it's, I like it because it's true.

It's indicative of like the Christian endeavor, right?

Like when you aren't in your private life in prayer, seeking

the Lord publicly, things are gonna start falling.

Yeah, like it. You fall in private far before

you fall in. I think it's self-explanatory,

but I like it. Yeah, it's good.

Yeah, no, I really like the prayer nights too, like you

said, like, and I know I was thinking about using this quote.

I didn't, but it's a quote from Spurgeon.

Charles, Charlie. Charles Hadden.

He he said I'd rather teach one man to pray than 10 men to

preach like he just like prayer is just so, so important, right?

And like preaching, preaching is super important, and that just

shows how much more important prayer is in our lives.

Yeah, well, it's the like, it's prayer is like the thing that

Christians can do in their private life to connect with

God, you know, in a way, Like you can read his word,

obviously, but prayer is like direct communication with the

Almighty. And so like it, it works.

Like it just, it just works. Like, I don't know why people

like even for myself, I'm talking to myself mostly here

where it's like I can go through a season where I'm praying

vigorously and everything I'm praying for is happening exactly

as it I I want it even. And then all of a sudden, like

the next thing pops up and then it's like, oh, but I don't know

if God's going to hear me on this one, you know, even though

I have this whole backlog of answered prayers.

But yeah, no, but you did a really good job.

Like your sermonette it. Was it was good.

Unfortunately, we didn't record it.

Oh, no, I feel so bad about it. Like I feel bad because we've

started recording and and then it was a busy, it was a busy

Sunday. And then, yeah, I just didn't

didn't think about getting someone back there to record so

well. If I didn't hear it, you missed.

Out you missed out, believers pray.

That was one thing I wrote down. The other thing I wrote down was

like, be awake. Like are we?

And I asked myself the question, am I awake in my prayer?

Like, am I really being watchful?

I thought, I thought you did a good job, like taking that

sentence and two, I think. Yeah.

And breaking verse 2 apart with the three points of like being

steadfast in prayer, being watchful in prayer and and doing

it all with Thanksgiving. So I thought that was a good

exegesis on your part. You broke that down and made it

like you made your point centered on that.

So I thought it was really, really helpful.

Yeah, and on a. Practical level too.

It's like, how many times do you just kind of idly lay in bed

right before you go to sleep and you just kind of rattle off some

list of things you need or want and then you just kind of zonk

out. Yeah.

Yeah, well, in that, like that was kind of the illustration

that I use, right. Like me, yeah, me and my wife

praying before we go to bed and me falling asleep, which

happened so. Yesterday, yesterday I was

convicted twice about not praying, like about my, my, my

habit of not praying before I go to bed with my wife.

OK, so the sermon that you preached and you talked about

like falling asleep in your own prayer, which is fine.

And then you got the elbow to the ribs, right?

Yeah, but that's fine. You were, you were you were

disciplining yourself, you guys in your marriage of discipline

yourself to like this is something where it's important

we're going to pray before we go to bed.

So that was one of them. I was convicted.

But that was the second one. The first one as after church on

like the morning service, I was driving to the superstore to get

some groceries and I was listening.

I've been listening to this. Colin Hansen wrote a book on

like an autobiography, not an auto.

It wouldn't be autobiography be a biography, sort of a biography

on Tim Keller, his spiritual and intellectual formation.

It's a really, really good book. But in it he talks about how Tim

Keller didn't have a habit of praying with his wife either.

And so he tells a story about Tim's wife saying, you know,

hey, just imagine if you were if you were dying and the remedy

for it was to take this pill every single night.

If you miss one night, you're going to die, Would you do it?

And obviously the obvious answer is, of course, I would do it.

And and she was convicting him about it too.

It's like, OK, so that so basically, we're not going to

make it if we don't pray together.

So they made it then then they made a early on in their

marriage. It was early, they made a

commitment to each other that they would they would pray every

night. And so no matter where he was in

the world speaking, no matter what time zone it was in, they

always prayed before they went to bed and and made sure that

they connected and prayed together before they went to

bed. So that was that was the first

time I was convicted yesterday about it.

Second time was your sermon. And then of course, I went to

bed and didn't pray with my wife.

So, but no, it's, it is convicting.

And now that she will listen to this on Wednesday, right when it

comes out. And now we'll have to and it's

good. But no, Kyle, I'm really worried

about you need to stop talking to yourself so much.

We need to get that thing. You know, maybe we should talk

to somebody else about that, but we're talking to yourself all

the time. Yeah, I do talk to myself quite

a bit. No, it's good.

Well, I was going to say too, that like, it's interesting what

you're saying right now between like that and like your

conviction with you and your wife.

It it's interesting that like prayer doesn't just connect us

with the Father, it connects us with other believers.

Yeah. And it's interesting to see the

connected, the connection power that happens, A, between like a

married couple and they're praying or B even in a church

setting with a body of believers, how we can form and

connect with each other relationally through the act of

praying to God. Yeah, it does draw you closer to

each other for sure. Really cool.

Yeah, I'm always moved on the family nights when we when we

spend time, it's just 1/2 hour like because we have like 1/2

hour of like music and a devotion and then we just spend

like it and it's really almost too short.

It feels like I feel bad because I'll eat it most of the time.

You let it last night, which was really good and I appreciate you

doing that. But you feel bad when you step

up there and interrupt people praying.

And I'm like, can't we just keep this going?

But then there's there's all sorts of temperaments in the

room. Like there are people who won't

gather in a group. Have you noticed that?

Like there are some people, because we want to gather in

like groups of three or four pray, but there are a couple who

just won't. And so that's a timber.

They're just praying on their own.

And then there are people who want to pray and they pray a

lot. And then there's people who get

together and then they they pray quickly and then they chat.

And that's it's natural. But like, again, I think if we

could keep it going, like what you're doing is, Kyle, what you

mentioned there is you're connecting and you're bonding

together over prayer, but you're also teaching each other how to

pray. Like you're teaching each other

like the posture of prayer, right?

Like our posture is one that's steadfast, one that's with

Thanksgiving and the one that's being watchful about like what

we're talking about and like and guarding the church.

And so, yeah, I like you're we're teaching each other.

Pray if you just, if you're just also it's just me and Jesus and

I'm good. That's not the Christian life.

No, the Christian life is meant to be done in community.

Yeah, well and to like speaking to the lengths of prayers I it.

Doesn't even. Did you say length or did you

say? Length of prayers for Yeah,

well, I was going to say was that like they don't necessarily

have to be long, they just have to be biblical true, you know

like they. Well, yeah, and Jesus warns us

about long babbling prayers, right?

Exactly. Vain repetitions, right?

And so on. The years are long enough.

Another Spurgeon quote as. Ironically, the example he gives

of how to pray right after he says stay away from vain

repetitions has become a vain repetition, which I think is

kind of hilarious. Yeah.

But. It's funny too that you bring

that up like the disciples didn't ask how to like, preach,

how to do all these things. They asked him how to pray.

Because I think like, like I kind of mentioned that passenger

Mark where he would go, go off and pray in the wilderness even

when there were crowds gathered. And I think like they really saw

him praying all the time. They're like, what do you do?

Like how, how do you pray? Right.

And that's like. Yeah, that's a good point.

Well, in praying alone is of benefit as well, like but in a

church setting though, it is important for us to kind of

cultivate those relationships. For sure, yeah, I wouldn't.

I wouldn't say that you couldn't do any spiritual things alone.

I don't. I don't want to make that.

That's a good distinction. Yeah.

Because that's not the point I was making.

The point I was making is like Christianity is not meant to be

done all by yourself all the time, like it is supposed to be

done in community. But you're right.

I mean, I pray all we all do. We all pray alone all the time.

So. And yeah, in fact, Jesus models

that he went off alone to pray. So yeah, it's good.

But yeah, I thought, I thought your sermon was really helpful.

I liked how you talked about. I just wrote down mysteries of

the mysteries of, of, of Christ. I don't know if you you said

mystery at the end. Yeah.

But it wasn't in my notes, actually.

OK, but it kind of came out because it is in the passage,

right? Yeah.

But it I mean, the mystery of Christ is really like the

gospel. Right, it's it's him revealing

himself to us, right. So anytime you see that Paul

talks about the mysteries of this of the gospel a lot and he

basically just saying this mysterious thing that God would

do this, right? Like that's the that's the

mystery. It's not, it's not a mystery

anymore. It's not, it's not like we can't

figure it out. It's not like unsolved

mysteries. Do you remember that show?

I do. I love way before your times,

but that gave me nightmares. That is a side note.

That music at the beginning of that show gives me side notes.

But that's not the mystery in the like in the in the Gospels,

right? Or in the, in the epistles that

Paul's talking about, he's talking about the Gospel, right?

So. Yeah, and like, that's actually

something I've been talking with my D Group A lot is like the

mystery of Christ in the Old Testament 'cause we're back in

the Old Testament, right? And like that, that was like

everything in the Old Testament points to Christ.

Yeah, right. Like Colossians, actually it's

in chapter 2. It says these are a shadow of

the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Like everything in the Old Testament, like, was like a

shadow of Christ. But now we get to see the true

right thing that is casting the shadow, and that is Christ.

And that's what that mystery is like.

Yeah, exactly. You said yeah.

Yeah, you got me thinking about how am I going to preach Christ

from Nehemiah 7? So I'm just that's where my mind

is right now. So anyway, pray for me.

We'll we'll get there eventually.

But yeah, Kyle, you want to say something?

You look like you were going to say something.

No, we're good. I just I've been reading this

book and with Ryan. Oh wait, what are y'all reading?

Yeah, we read this. Book, hang on, you guys have

been talking about even JC Ryles, a Puritan, Yeah, maybe

Presbyterian, I don't know. Yeah.

Then you got you've been you quoted like Chapter Spurgeon for

like 7 things 17 times in this podcast.

You you're quoting Timothy Keller anecdote.

Presbyterian, Yeah, anyway. And you were going to talk about

another Presbyterian, I think. Spurgeon's a Baptist.

Spurgeon is a Baptist. Yeah, yeah.

It was. I was going to talk about this

book we've been reading called Daily Doctrine, Daily Doctrine

by Kevin Deyoung. And also press, I mean also

press material that's. True.

Wow, fair enough. I'm just being silly.

Yeah, I was going to say, it's not like it matters.

Takes all. Kinds, right?

They're all Christian evangelical Christians.

Heaven, Christ is our center. I think that's all that matters.

Yeah, but like I was, we were reading it together and it's

interesting talking about like the mysteries of Christ.

We just read a whole chapter about like the attributes of

God. Well, tell us what the book is

first. Yeah, that's a good point.

So the the book is a it's like a devotional style book where each

day there's meant to be a reading and instead of it being

a specific Bible verse or a Bible like an excerpt from the

Scripture, it's a theological idea or point.

So it's a systematic theology essentially.

So he's taking systematic theology and breaking it up into

like bite size daily doctrinal. Daily doctrinal points.

So Daily Doctrine really good, yeah.

It's helpful five days a week, like it's.

So it's 260 as well, Yeah. Yeah, so it's good.

I've really enjoyed it. But one of the things he

mentioned this week was talking about the attributes of God.

Attributes of God talking about the incommunicable and the

communicable ones, right Incommunicable being like the

traits that are for God alone that he possesses things like

omnipotence, omniscience, and then the communicable ones.

Well, actually, we can talk about it later and then the

communicable ones, which are like the ones that we can share.

And so like Lovejoy peace, those kinds of things.

And one of the things he mentions about is is attribute

that God has, which is like that he's the invisible God, right?

That he is invisible, not because he's like, you know,

this one transparent ether, but that to define him by the space

in which that he resides. It would just it wouldn't be

comprehensible. Like he transcends space and

time in a way that we cannot fathom.

I don't know why, but you said mysteries of Christ and that

just I thought of that. No, it is.

That is actually like, that's the thing about God.

It's like when you start to think on him, Yeah, you realize

really quickly that you will never exhaust the amount of

thinking that you can do. Yeah, to understand.

And you will not understand at all.

And I think that's that to me is like, it's beautiful.

And I I mean that it's it should do what it should do is it

should cause us to be humble. Yes.

And not proud. Yeah.

And to worship, that's right. And to pray, like to know that

this deity, this invisible otherworldly expanse of God

hears you. Yeah.

And like enjoys hearing from you seemingly, which is and loves

you. I don't know.

It's just like it should make it should make you want to pray all

the more. Like, that's something that I

thought too, even going through your sermonette last night was I

was like, man, I just, I have to say this sermonette, I'm sorry.

Because yours are so long less. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right, yeah. But like going through Ryan?

Follows instructions? Oh, not so much.

Yeah, it's true. But going through that, just

thinking about like how much of A desire I want to pray more

with the context of knowing who God is, the attributes of God

that we read about in this book this week, and then hearing

about his desire for us to pray. It's, it's humbling, but it also

makes me want to draw closer to it, to him in, in, in our, in my

communication. Yeah, for sure.

No, it's good. What have you been thinking

about Daily Doctrine? It's it's really good.

Yeah. It's a great book learning a lot

and a lot of these things are like going over my head a bit.

Like he definitely used some big words like it is systematic

theology, but it's it's not unattainable for for like the

the layperson, I guess, right. And, and really the one thing

that like, you know, you hear people say like, oh, theology

divides and it's not important, whatever we're doctrine divides,

but like learning about God, like that's what theology is.

It's the study of God, right? And it, it really should just

drive us to worship God, right. And I, that's what I've been,

I've been noticing, like reading about the attributes of God or

like learning just about theology, why it's important.

It just like it starts to make you realize like, like you said,

like you are God. I'm not like, thank you, Lord,

for everything. Like, yeah, you start to realize

how small you are in a good way, right?

In a way of like, man, I'm so glad that you're God.

Yeah. Well, and something I really

appreciated about it too, is because is that like you said,

he's the author of this book is Presbyterian.

Jonah, you I'm pointing, sorry, like Jonah mentioned that he is

Presbyterian. So there are things on a

theological level that I disagree with him.

And even in the past, the chapters this week, there are

things he said where I was like, I don't know about that.

But the beautiful thing about it is that theology is meant to be

explored in a way where even if you're not 100% sure or agree

with a person's take on something, learn more, right?

Dive deeper and you know what? And like, maybe you'll come to a

truth or some sort of revelation that maybe this author or

speaker isn't Privy to that changes the perspective on

things. Yeah, the thing about theology

and when you start to study theology is you are studying

God, Yeah, who we cannot fully comprehend.

No. Therefore, you're going to be

challenged. And so you have to be, you have

to be ready for that. And if you're not willing to be

challenged, don't start reading theology books.

Oh, 100%. Because even if you, even if you

think you agree with someone that you're reading, you're

going to find out that that there is something in there that

that challenges you and actually makes you super uncomfortable

and that you just like, you don't want to feel like, you

know what I mean? Like, because honestly, that's

what happens. You're studying the, the, the,

yeah, the topic of study is incomprehensible.

Yeah. On some level, right?

Yeah. And so, like, there are things

that we can understand. I'm not saying that he has

revealed himself to us, which is a very, it's beautiful.

Like God, the creator of the universe.

I, I have a hard time saying the deity or the, this God or like,

I don't know. I've, I've said it before too,

like, but we are studying the one, the only right, the the

everlasting, the God. And he has made the way, not a

way for us to, to know him. He's made the way for us to know

him. And that is, that is the word

that we have. So, but you're studying so you

can comprehend some things, but the things that are made clear,

we need to understand it very clearly.

And the things that are not made so clear, we can hold with sort

of like loose, like grip and like say, yeah, there's tension

there. Like like free will and the

doctrine of predestination. There's tension there.

They're both in the scriptures and we have to hold them loosely

and say, OK, somehow little word makes it work together.

And that is a mystery. Well, that's a.

That's a Spurgeon quote. Why rectify 2 friends?

Or why reconcile 2 friends? That's right.

Yeah, they're already, they're already friends.

And so, oh, there we go again, Spurgeon, one more time.

Sorry, I was gonna say too like. Spurgeon's my favorite Baptist.

It's fine other than other than yourself.

Everybody loves themselves, right?

So if you don't. I was gonna say like another

quote, it goes perfectly. It's from Daily Doctrine.

I don't remember what chapter this was in, but it's also it's

Kevin Deyoung. He says that like in essentials

unity, Yeah, in non essentials liberty, but in all things

charity. Yeah.

So we hold to the we hold to the essential of the gospel, of the

person, of Jesus, of the triune God, in a way that we are

unified behind those. Things, yeah.

And that's one actually, we make that point in our first steps

class. So if you're listening and you

haven't taken first steps, that is the first thing we talk about

is, is like holding things that are very important.

Like there are some things we have to agree on in order to

like have fellowship together. Yeah.

Everything else we can sort of like just be charitable with

each other. Well, and same thing with and

then it goes like into the non essentials liberty, right.

But like, you know, we talked with the tension with the free

will and the the model of predestination that people hold

to no one is really certain on how they work, how they work

together, how they're reconciled.

And so we can have liberty with that.

We can we can be kind to one another.

Exactly. We have our understandings

because none of us have the full answer or no.

And then lastly, in all things charity, be charitable on it.

All right, Like in all the disagreement and all of like the

seeming ways that we can find disunity, be charitable to one

another, give each other the benefit of the doubt, I think

that that's probably the best way to operate, right?

Yeah, it should be. Well, and like we do all things

in love, right? Like, yeah, there's so many

passages in Scripture, like First Corinthians 13 is the

famous love chapter. And there's so many other

passages that just like talk about loving your brother.

Like even Paul talks about loving his loving the weaker

brother. Like if it means that I won't

even meet again, I'll I'll do it.

It's like he does anything to make sure that people love God.

Yeah, right. And like, I'm like, even between

us three, I'm sure there's something that we could disagree

on. Oh yeah, and if there's not I'll

I will encourage anyone to ride in the car with Kyle for six.

Days. To I.

Was gonna say shortly after this is like done recording.

We're gonna, we're just gonna start fighting.

That's. Oh no, we're not.

I'm just. Joking.

I'm joking. I'm joking.

But yeah, like there's, there's always something.

But like we always are rooted in the gospel.

Right where the. Roots are and everything that

comes out of that is just good conversation.

Yeah, for sure. That's good.

I like the book too. I've been reading it.

I'm behind you guys. You have.

Yeah, I'm behind you guys. But yeah, it's really good.

Joe and I, we, we have always, we always have big plans and

we're going to do this together. We're going to read this book

together and like then we have a million other things that pop up

and we put that on the back. Burner such as the life of a

pastor, though, right? Happens.

Yeah, things happen. So on that note, we're at like

40 minutes in our podcast now, so that's good.

But on that note, we talked about things happening.

We had Pastor Jake is away this week, Joe is away this week.

Joe had a planned vacation and then Pastor Jake had an

unexpected emergency of the death in the in Anna's family.

And so yeah, I'll, I'll just take a minute or two and we'll

pray and we'll conclude the episode.

Is that OK with you guys? Yeah.

Any other comments before we conclude?

Well, any anything on your sermon?

No, not yet. Teaser.

No, it's Monday. I just found out I was preaching

yesterday. So he.

Just finished writing it. No, yeah, it's it is a hard

chapter there. The 1st 4 verses are the only

narrative and then it just runs right into a list of names and

numbers. And so it will be interesting.

I will try my best to to to pull something out of it.

I don't have to work really hard there.

There is stuff there. All scripture is and that that's

where I'm going to start is that Paul's instruction of Timothy

that all Scott, all Scripture is profitable for for teaching.

So we're going to learn that right now.

Let me pray for just for our church and for Pastor Jake.

Father, we are grateful. I'm grateful for Kyle and for

Ryan for their willingness to come on and to fill in and just

to have a conversation with them.

It's always fun, but it's even more fun when when we can do it

in a way that may build others up.

And so where I pray that that would that that's what we've

done today that we've we've been some sort of encouragement to

someone who's listening the father right now.

I just like, like we just mentioned that things come up in

the life of any, anyone, but specifically in pastors lives.

And, and I pray for, for Pastor Jake and for Anna, specifically

for Anna now that that you would give their, her family comfort,

that you would give them the ability to minister to others in

the midst of their grief. But I pray for, for their

travels and I pray for, for all the conversations that we had

that they would be focused on, on giving the gospel each and

every conversation that they have the ability to.

And just like helping those in the family that they're, that

they're seeing down in Texas, that they're just able to give

comfort through the gospel, through what you've done through

your son. And so Lord, we just, we, we

grieve with them, but we also, we thank you for the opportunity

that they have to, to go into, to be with their family and to,

and to do that. And so I also pray for Pastor

Joe as he's out on vacation. I pray that it's a restful time

and that they, they all return safely.

We just pray that you would be with our church, LAMC.

Help us to love each other. Help us to to to be unified in

the vision and to not be distracted so we could take

Pastor Jake's message from Sunday to heart and then we

won't let anything distract us from getting the gospel out into

our community and beyond. I pray these things in Jesus

name, Amen. Thanks for joining us.

We will see you next week. Thanks.