Sermon
Bargaining With God (Jake Enns)
Publisher transcript
Transcript
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One summer day, some families wanted to go blueberry picking.
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The one family had a few younger children who were too young to
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help and so they were dropped off at a babysitter.
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There was one young little boy, maybe aged 4 or so.
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He was not happy at having to stay with the babysitter and he
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put up a lot of resistance. Verbally he fussed and
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complained, but to no avail. He was little, he had no power.
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His words of protest fell on deaf ears.
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He had to stay at the babysitter.
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The babysitter was an older girl, mature, and she tried her
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best to calm him down, to bargain with him, offering him
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candy and what not, to get him to comply.
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I don't want candy, I want to go blueberry picking, he
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complained. But he had to stay.
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Nothing to be done. Sometime later that morning,
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maybe mid morning toward lunch, the young boy came up to the
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babysitter. The girl says, Now I would
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already want the candy you wanted to offer me earlier.
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The bargaining cards were not with him, they were with a
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babysitter. Too often in life we forget to
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hold the cards and so we do that.
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And so our sermon title this morning is bargaining with God.
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You ever done that? Ever pray something?
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Lord, if you will, then I will. If you will do this for me, then
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I will do that for you. Ever done that?
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I'm not saying it's sin to bargain with God in that sense.
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But what if the promises we make are wrong?
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What if the promises we make are not thought through well?
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And we thought, oh, what did I promise?
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We're continuing our sermon series this morning in the book
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of Judges. And in the next few sermons,
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we'll be covering longer portions of Scripture, so we'll
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be skipping some parts. Last Sunday, we finished the
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life of Gideon and his son Abimelech.
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When Gideon died, Abimelech came on the scene and we learned that
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he wasn't very bad leader, a very evil man.
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He had a very tragic end. Well, after Abimelech, there's a
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man named Tola, and then there's Jair.
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Very little is mentioned. They only have a few verses, and
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so we will skip those leaders. In today's passage, we find the
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people of Israel again in a time of idolatry.
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And the main character of the story this morning is a man
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named Jephthah. And in today's scripture we will
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find quite a bit of bargaining going on.
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One commentator that I read mentions there's five different
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episodes of bargaining happening from chapter 10, verse 6 to
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chapter 12, verse 7. Bargaining with God is something
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that many people did in the Old Testament.
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People still do today. But for instance, I'll mention
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one in the book of Samuel, chapter one, we find the story
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of Hannah praying in the temple. She's childless and saying to
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God, if you will give me a son, I will dedicate him to you.
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And God blessed her, gave her a son, and she dedicated him to
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the Lord. That's not sin, that's not
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wrong, but we have to be very careful when we make promises to
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God. What kind of promises do we make
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and are they honoring to Him? On what do they all imply?
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So let's begin reading this morning out of chapter 10, verse
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6 in your Bibles to the end of verse 16, and we will go all the
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way through chapter 12, verse 7 towards the end beginning of
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chapter 10, verse 6. Then the children of Israel
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again did evil in the sight of the Lord and served the Bales
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and Astaroths, the gods of Syria, the gods of Sidon, the
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gods of Moab, the gods of the people of Ammon, the gods of the
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Philistines. They forsook the Lord and did
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not serve Him. So the Lord anger of the Lord
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was hot against Israel, and He sold them into the hands of the
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Philistines and into the hands of the people of Ammon.
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From that year they harassed and oppressed the children of Israel
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for 18 years, all the children of Israel who were on the other
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side of the Jordan in the land of the Amorites in Gilead.
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Moreover, the people of Ammon crossed over the Jordan to fight
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against Judah, also against Benjamin and against the House
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of Ephraim, so that Israel was severely distressed.
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And the children of Israel cried out to the Lord, saying, We have
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sinned against you because we have both forsaken our God and
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served the bails. So the Lord said to the children
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of Israel, did I not deliver you from the Egyptians and from the
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Amorites, from the people of Ammon and from the Philistines
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also the Sidonians and Amalekites and Mayonites
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oppressed you, and you cried out to me, and I delivered you from
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their hand. Yet you've forsaken me and
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served other gods. Therefore I will deliver you no
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more. Go and cry out to the gods which
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you've chosen. Let them deliver you in your
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time of distress. And the children of Israel said
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to the Lord, We have sinned due to us.
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Whatever seems best to you, only deliver us this day, we pray.
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So they put away the foreign gods from among them and serve
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the Lord, and his soul could no longer endure the misery of
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Israel. Let's pause there.
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Notice the prayer in verse 15. We have sinned due to us.
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Whatever seems best to you, only deliver us this day.
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We pray. They're bargaining.
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They're praying. Do as you see fit.
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What's the first thing we notice here?
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Surrender, the first thing that has to come into place if we
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want to come on to God's side, we have to surrender.
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We have sinned. Do to us whatever seems best to
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you. Only deliver us this day.
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We pray. That's desperation.
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See, they are now where they should have been before they
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started worshipping idols. Before we look at how bad their
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situation was, let's look at back again what had happened
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that made it so bad. So let's go back to verse 6.
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It tells us in verse 6 they did evil in the sight of the Lord
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and served the bails #2, the Ashtaroths.
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And each of these nations that mentions here had their own
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group of gods. The gods of Syria, the gods of
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Sidon, the gods of Moab, the gods of Ammon, the gods of the
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Philistines. They forsook the Lord, did not
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serve him. Seven different God groups are
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mentioned here. They had completely, totally
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immersed themselves in the cultures around them.
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Most likely there was not one idol they did not embrace.
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They blended in well. You know how it worked well in
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the first little while? Probably until it didn't.
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Why 7? Why 7 different groups?
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Again, going back to some commentators that you say that
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the number 7 is often used as a symbol of completeness in
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Scripture. So basically saying there's
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nothing they didn't do, they did it all.
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They had fallen perhaps to the lowest that this that they had
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ever been. We do not find the children of
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Israel ever having fallen lower than they were at this point.
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And as we go through the story of Judges, we find toward the
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end, it gets really, really, really bad.
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It was worse now than it had been.
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It was going to get worse yet down on.
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But let's go to this story today.
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So the cycle of oppression began again.
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They embraced all these idols. And in time, it went badly.
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For 18 years they came under oppression.
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But you know, something in their minds, they remembered.
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They knew they had not forgotten.
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They had forgotten God, but not forgotten.
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They cried out to who? The God they rejected.
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It's interesting how people conveniently brush God aside in
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life when it's to their advantage to brush him aside,
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only to later beg him. Get Me Out of this mess that I'm
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in. Please rescue me.
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You know what they do after God says Nope, I'm not going to
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rescue you. You go cry to those gods you
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worship. You go after them now you know
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what they do. We're 16.
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So they put away the foreign gods from among them.
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They clean house. They serve the Lord and God.
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True to his character, his soul could no longer endure the
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misery of Israel. He's always a God of compassion
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and mercy whenever people surrender.
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But he holds the cards. They ended the idol worship.
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They ended it. Did they just somehow now
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realize it was wrong? No.
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They knew all along it was wrong.
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But it was attractive, it was tempting, and they fell for it.
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They knew exactly what they'd done, and before they could
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expect God to rescue him, they had to do something.
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The lesson here is this. For 300 years by now they had
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been a nation in Canaan. They knew what happened before
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they had the history. But it's so tempting and this
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will work. The lessons of history were not
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gone. They knew them.
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God reminded them. And now God says, I'm not going
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to rescue you. But then they repent, then they
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change, they surrender. You know, isn't it amazing how
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people know the right thing to do when they get desperate?
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There's always this thing when children disobey.
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They don't know exactly what Mom and Dad instructed, what mom and
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Dad said. And then when they get caught,
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then they bargain, then they want mercy.
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But now, having repented, you know, something that did not
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change the circumstances, that did not yet get them out of
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their situation, they still needed help.
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I've sometimes said this in the past.
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Nobody needs any help in messing up their life.
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We could all do that by ourselves.
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If anyone tries to tell us you mind your own business, who are
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you to judge me? But later, when life has fallen
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apart, then we want help. I'm sorry, can you help me?
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I did because and I didn't know. And excuses.
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When we finally realized excuses do not work, then the next step,
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hey, I know I was wrong, but I said sorry.
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I apologized. That's not repentance.
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That's demanding. If we do the right thing, we let
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down our guard. We simply say something.
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Look, I know I'm responsible. I sinned.
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I put myself at your mercy. Do to me as you see fit.
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Please rescue me this day. That's the prayer.
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They should have prayed a lot earlier.
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They had rebelled. They had worshiped idols.
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Their lives are in a mess now. They're getting ready to get rid
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of the mess now. They owned it.
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But that doesn't fix the mess. That doesn't get them out of the
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mess. They have their mess.
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They own their mess. Now they need to deal with it.
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Let's continue reading verse 17. Then the people of Ammon
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gathered together, the very guys who oppressed them.
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They gathered together and camped in Gilead, and the
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children of Israel assembled together and encamped in Mizpah,
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their idols. They had embraced them,
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worshiped them, and a bunch of others.
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Those very people had oppressed them.
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Now there's a mess. Now they're going to fight
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against them. A war was coming, verse 18, and
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the people, the leaders of Gilead said to one another,
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who's the man who will begin the fight against the people of
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Ammon? He shall behead over all the
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inhabitants of Gilead. They got rid of the idols.
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They're back to to godly worship the life they had behave
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themselves into. They now have to fight their way
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out. They're in a situation where
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it's only going to be a very painful way back to freedom.
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You see, it's like I've said in the past, you can dig yourself
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into a hole. You can't dig yourself out.
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You need help to get out. It takes a lot of effort here.
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They are oppressed. Now they're going to have to
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fight. In Chapter 11.
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There's a little small insert into the story.
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It's it's something that's kind of by itself just gives us a bit
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of a backdrop into the character of the guy we're going to talk
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about. Let's read 11 Chapter 1 now.
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Jephthah the Gileadite was a mighty man of valor, but he was
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the son of a harlot, and Gilead begot Jephthah.
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Gilead's wife bore sons, and when his wife's sons grew up,
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they drove Jephthah out and said to him, You shall have no
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inheritance in her father's house, for you are the son of
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another woman. Then Jephthah fled from his
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brothers and dwelt in the land of Tobe, and worthless men
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banded together with Jephthah and went out raiding with him.
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This story is just a tiny insert giving the backdrop of the
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leader that the people of Israel would end up calling to help
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them out of the mess that got themselves into says in verse 4.
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And it came to pass after a time that the people of Ammon made
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war against Israel. So here in verse 4, now we're
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back to the end of the story in chapter 10, the last part there.
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Now here in verse 5 and Chapter 11, it says, and so it was when
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the people of Ammon made war against Israel that the elders
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of Gilead went to get Jephthah from the land of Tob.
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They said to Jephthah, come and be our commander that we may
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fight against the people of Ammon.
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Now who holds the cards? Listen, we're 7.
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So Jephthah said to the elders of Gilead, Do you, did you not
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hate me and expel me from my father's house?
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Why have you come to me now when you're in trouble, in distress?
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And the elders of Gilead said to Jephthah, That is why we've
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turned to you again, to you now that you may go with us and
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fight against the people of Ammon and be our head over all
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the inhabitants of Gilead. You see the back and forth,
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verse 9. So Jephthah said to the elders
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of Gilead, if you take me back home to fight against the people
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of Ammon, and the Lord delivers them to me, shall I be your
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head? That's the card here.
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We see this going on, verse 10, And the elders of Gilead said to
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Jephthah, the Lord will be a witness.
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No more idle talk. The Lord will be a witness
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between us if we do not do according to your words.
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Notice the reference. They had not forgotten.
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They turned back to God. Now here's the reference point,
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verse 11. Then Jephthah went with the
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elders of Gilead, and the people made him head and commander over
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them, and Jephthah spoke all his words before the Lord in Mizpah.
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Now they're back on track. They got this agreement, they
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got the arrangement. Now it's going to work.
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See, back in the earlier years when the elders of Gilead, his
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brothers, rejected him and threw him out, it probably never
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crossed their minds. Oh boy, we may need this guy one
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day. We may have to go back to him.
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He was a man of valor who's very brave, very courageous.
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He had, he had, he had, he had. He's a very daring man.
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But now when the idol worship had got them in this mess and
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they had now repented and turned back to the Lord, it's enough to
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fight their way back to freedom. They have to.
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They already humble themselves. Now they go back all small and
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little. And you know what that points us
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to? To the next point here
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demonstrate humility. It wasn't easy to convince
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Jephthah. He had remembered, he had not
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forgotten, he reminds them. But the balance of power now
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rested with him. Just to recap, first the nation
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had rebelled, gone into idol worship, 18 years of oppression,
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life was a mess. They wanted God's help, God's
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reluctant to help. Then they totally repent.
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God then gets going with this. And so they begged God and God
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provides. But the man able and qualified
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to do the job, None other than Jephtah the rejected 1.
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He'd been treated very badly. But now when things are dark,
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can you help us? Jephthah had conditions, he has
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boundaries. Let's continue reading in
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Jephthah in Judges chapter 1110 eleven verse 12.
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Now Jephthah gets to work. Jephthah sent messengers to the
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king of the people of Ammon saying, what do you have against
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me that you've come to fight against me in my land?
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He's taking total ownership. He's the leader now, and he's
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going to start with conversation.
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He's the leader and verse 12 and on to down to verse 28.
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I won't read all of that. We have this exchange through
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letters, people bringing letters to the king of Ammon, The king
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of Ammon bringing letters back to Jephthah, and this
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conversation is going on. Jephthah is trying to reason
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with the king of Ammon to avoid war.
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He doesn't want war, war, but he's the leader now, so he will
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do what he can to avoid it. Nothing works in the end.
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King of Ammon is convinced, Nope, the land you took from us
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and it wasn't actually true. If you read the story, it's not
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how it happened. The king of Ammon is not honest
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and he's trying to convince Jeff that, yeah, you took my land.
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Jeff, this says, no, we didn't. We took what God gave us and we
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didn't actually take your land, somebody else's land.
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And the king of Ammon just wants it now.
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And then verse 27, Judges Chapter 11, verse 27 says,
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therefore Jephthah is saying I've not sinned against you, but
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you wronged me by fighting against me.
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So Jephthah is taking this really personal.
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May the Lord the judge render judgment this day between the
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children of Israel and the people of Ammon.
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The die is cast. Whoever the king of Ammon did
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not heed the words Jephtah sent him.
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Well, now the next thing that we need to see what's important
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here. It's easy to talk.
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What is even heavier is when you actually need to do something
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and now the fighting will begin. So you have to have courage.
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First there was a surrender by the people and they had to
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humble themselves. Now it will take courage.
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It's easy to give way to fear in difficult times, but fear is
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something that just somehow doesn't have.
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He has courage. The king had insisted, Nope,
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it's my land, I'm going to take it.
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And Jephthah says no. And now the next step is battle.
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Let's read on to chapter Chapter 11, verse 29.
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We'll continue on. Then the Spirit of the Lord came
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upon Jephtah, and he passed through Gilead and Manasseh and
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passed through Mizbah of Gilead. And from Mizbah to Gilead he
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advanced toward the people of Ammon.
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Now let's pay careful attention to what happens here.
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Jephtah has some flaws of his own.
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Verse 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord and said, if you
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will indeed deliver the people of Ammon into my hands, then it
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will be that whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet
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me when I return in peace from the people of Ammon, surely
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shall surely be the Lords, and I will OfferUp as a burnt
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offering. Wow, let's read verse 30 again.
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If you will indeed deliver the people of Ammon into my hands in
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verse 31, then it will be that whatever comes out of the doors
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of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the people
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of Ammon shall be surely be the Lords, and I will offer it as a
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burnt offering. Did God tell him to do that?
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No, God didn't tell him to do that.
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He did that kind of as a bargaining with God.
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God never told him to do that and it would backfire.
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Well, let's continue reading Judges Chapter 11 verse 32 now
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so Jeff that advanced toward the people of Ammon to fight against
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them and the Lord delivered them into his hands.
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The Lord did and he defeated them from a roar as far as
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minutes 20 cities and to Abel Karamim with a very great
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slaughter. Thus the people of Ammon were
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subdued before the children of Israel.
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So far so good. Verse 34.
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When Jephthah came to his house at Mizpah, there was his
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daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and dancing, and
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she was his only child. Besides her he had neither son
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nor daughter. And it came to pass when he saw
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her, he tore his clothes and said, Alas, my daughter, you've
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brought me very low. You're among those who trouble
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me, for I've given my word to the Lord and I cannot go back on
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it. Let's stop there.
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Did he think this through when he made that promise?
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Did he think that the chances could be his only daughter would
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come out of the door? What was he expecting?
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Was he expecting an animal? One speaker listened to me to
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mention that the Israelites in those days, their houses often
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were built in a way. The animals and the people live
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in the same house, except the different ends are in the animal
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and was a bit lower than they were and where the people were
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at. So that could have been was
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expecting maybe a goat or a sheep, could have been, we don't
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know. We're not told what he was
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expecting, but we do know what he was not expecting.
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He was not expecting his daughter.
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That much we do know. You see, when we make promises,
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we need to be ever so careful to think through what we promise.
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So next point, promise carefully.
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God had not told Jeff to make that vow.
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And the story gets very complex. It's very difficult.
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Not everything is clear in this story and I won't read the rest
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of Chapter 11. But to summarize, his daughter
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was a submissive surrendered girl and she didn't ask to be
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spared from what her father had vowed to God he would do with
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her or to her. So she asked her father for
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permission to take a two-month leave and go with her friends
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and mourn her virginity because she would never marry and have
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children. It tells us in the end of
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Chapter 11, at the end of those two months, just that did to her
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as he had vowed to God. It's a tragic story.
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In studying this, what I found interesting is different
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commentators come to polar opposite conclusions of what
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actually did happen. They're commentators who, on the
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one hand, are fully convinced that Jephthah did in fact kill
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his daughter and offer her as a burnt offering on an altar to
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the Lord. Well, that's weird.
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That's strange, and commentators give their reasons as follows
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and the reasons they give why they believe that is human
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sacrifice was widely practiced in Canaanite culture, in the
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Canaanite countries, the idols that they had embraced, this
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would have been very normal. We read later on the kings of
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Israel did the sacrifice children to the God Molotch and
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so on. Human sacrifice was common or at
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least practiced, shouldn't say common, but it was widely
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practiced. Many did that, and the passage
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simply reads that way. So commentators say, well,
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that's what happened. Then there are those
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commentators who totally disagree and for the following
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reasons. Well, the Israelites knew the
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laws of God. Sure, they worshipped idols, but
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they were not stupid. They knew what Deuteronomy said,
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Deuteronomy 12, and there was a death penalty on sacrificing
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people, Jeff. They would have known that it
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was a capital offense. Leviticus 20 verse 2 talks about
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that. It's a capital fence to offer to
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sacrifice human beings. And not only that, the the New
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Testament writer of Hebrews in Hebrews Chapter 11 verse 32
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includes Jephthah in the Hebrew Hall of Fame.
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So did he kill his daughter? Some commentators say he didn't.
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Who's correct? There are those commentators who
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say that the Hebrew reading of the passage of the text could be
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interpreted differently based on how the wording is understood.
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I'll just let's put it on the slide here.
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Then it will be that whatever comes out of the doors of my
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house to meet me when I return in peace from the people of AM
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and I shall sure it shall surely be the Lords and and some
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commentators said the word or can be used as well shall surely
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be the Lords or I will offer it up as a burnt offering that
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makes that makes a huge difference there.
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So I'm not a Hebrew scholar. I'm not an authority on this
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question, but was does stand out as this Jeff that made a vow
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that cost him unnecessarily and put his daughter in a bad
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situation. Whether he killed her and
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sacrificed her or whether he dedicated her to the Lord for
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for temple service or House of God service.
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I will leave that open. But it's a vow he regretted, it
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says in verse 39, and it was. So at the end of two months, she
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returned to her father. He carried out his vow with her,
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which he had vowed, and she knew no man.
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At the worst, she was sacrificed as an offering, or at best she
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was dedicated for service in the House of God as a virgin.
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She could never marry. So whichever case that way that
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may have been, it was a bad vow should not have made it.
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And I won't claim either position here, but it does tell
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us make promises carefully. Well, these were not the end of
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Jeff, this problems. This was not the end of it.
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He had been rejected before. He had lived in the land of
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Tobe, did not live the best lifestyle.
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Worthless characters followed. He went raiding.
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That's not a good thing. The people of Gilead come to
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him. We need help.
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We've come back to God. We want help from the Ammonites.
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We need you. And he bargains and they bargain
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and they agree. And God gives the Ammonites into
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his hands and and he has this experience with his daughter.
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It's not a good experience. So now the lands in freedom,
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right? Problems not over yet.
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Let's continue reading. 12 verse one to three.
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Then the men of Ephraim gathered together, crossed over to Zephan
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and said to Jephthah, why did you cross over to fight against
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the people of Ammon and did not call us to go with you?
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We will burn your house down on you with fire.
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What's that all about? Read verse 2.
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And Jeff said to my people, and I were in great struggle with
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the people of Ammon, and when I called you, you did not deliver
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me out of their hands. So when I saw that you would not
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deliver me, I took my life in my hands and crossed over against
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the people of Ammon, and the Lord delivered them into my
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hand. Why then have you come up to me
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this day to fight against me when you think it should be
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better? Then there's internal problems.
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He had a hard life partly because how he was treated,
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partly because his own personality and not making good
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choices. Now again with other people
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messing around. But one thing these Ephraimites
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forgot or didn't think of, Jeff, there was not a man to be messed
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with. Remember, he was a man of valor.
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Things have gone well with the Ammonites, not with his
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daughter. Now the men of Ephraim are
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giving him a hard time telling him we're going to kill you,
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burn you alive. And here Jephthah does
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something. It's not judged, it's not right
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or wrong, it's not mentioned, but I question his, his, his
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path. Let's read verse 412, verse 4,
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chapter 12. Now Jephthah gathered together
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all the men of Gilead and fought against Ephraim.
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And the men of Gilead defeated Ephraim because they said the
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Ephraimites said, You Gileadites are fugitives of Ephraim among
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the Ephraimites and among the Monasites.
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The Gileadite seized the Fords of the Jordan before the
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Ephraimites arrived. And when any Ephraimite who
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escaped said, Let me crossover, the men of Gilead would say to
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him, Are you an Ephraimite? If he said no, then they would
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say, then say shibboleth, and he would say sibboleth, for he
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could not pronounce it right. Then they would take him and
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kill him at the Fords of the Jordan.
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There fell at that time 42,000 Ephraimites and Jeff the judge
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is over six years. Then Jeff the Gilead died and
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was buried among the cities of Gilead.
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What a mess. What a mess.
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Back to Jeff the here these arrogant proud posturing of the
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men of Ephraim expecting special treatment, recognition and so
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on. Jeff, I did call you Jeff that
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says but you didn't come. Nothing to be done.
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What they didn't count on who was Jephthah his old character,
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Jephthah the Gileadite, who was he?
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A man of valor not to be messed with.
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That leads us to her last one. Beware of your old nature.
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It may get the job done, but not necessarily in the right way.
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The men of Ephraim had no right to threat threaten Jephthah when
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in reality he had done them no wrong.
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And they had no right in mocking the men of Gilead and calling
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them fugitives either. There's a lot more history here
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than meets the eye. But for our purposes this
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morning, obviously for the men of Ephraim, they did need to be
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taught a lesson. They picked the fight with the
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wrong man and paid dearly. Well, Jetha was having none of
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it. And true to his nature as a
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warrior, the men of Geddes followed him and 42,000
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Ephraimite men lost their lives. Was this God's will?
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I don't believe so, but God allows people to make choices
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and reap the consequences of their choices.
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And here the men of Ephraim chose badly.
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One could say, well, they had it coming true doesn't make it
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right. They lost thousands of men
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because of their stubbornness and arrogance and pride and
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Jephthah might have found ways better than to deal with them
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that way. We're not told.
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Proverbs Chapter 11 verse 2 says when pride comes, then comes
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shame. Isn't that the case?
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But with the humble, there's wisdom.
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And this whole mess here, the people of Israel was so ugly.
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How much struggle, how much pain could have been avoided all
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these years if they never wandered away from God in the
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1st place? All these cycles, this repenting
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and coming back, how much better to not have to repent.
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We'll never get out of repenting by the way, just let me tell
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you, we all need to always repent.
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But there's a difference in how we sin.
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Is it because we just didn't know something or we see
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something? OK, that's sin.
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I'm going to repent or I'm going to do this anyway.
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I remember having a conversation with a man many years ago.
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He was going to do something and I remember telling him I said
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that's wrong, I don't care. God made you and me in His
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image. He wants a relationship with you
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and me, but guess what? They're on His terms, not ours.
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He holds the cards. We don't.
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We can surrender ourselves, humble ourselves, become honest,
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transparent, watch our words, watch our steps, walk with Him.
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We can spare and save ourselves a ton of trouble.
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Maybe you're here today and you've behaved yourself into an
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oppressive situation, whatever that may be.
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You've done things that in hindsight shouldn't have done,
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that you never thought this would happen, or you're in that
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process right now. You know what I'm I know it's
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not right, but hey, I'm going to do it anyway.
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Watch out. Sin in the end never brings good
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fruit. And yes, God is patient, but
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remember, He holds the cards. You can try bargaining with Him,
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but in the end He will get the glory.
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But if we do it right, if we repent, humble ourselves, come
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to Him on His terms, maybe not perfectly, come on His terms, He
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will save us. It'll cost us everything we
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thought it would give us, our pride, our sin.
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But we'll be left with something better.
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We will have peace, joy, love when we walk, and surrender and
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humility in relationship with Jesus.
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May that be our goal this morning.
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Let's pray or we thank you for the story of Jephta.
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Not a pretty story. He had serious problems in his
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life. He was rejected, had his own
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issues, made decisions he shouldn't have.
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But Lord, you never gave up on him.
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And today he's in the Hall of Fame.
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Or there may be people here this morning who feel that they've
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made so many wrong choices, they have no hope a pray will touch
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their hearts and minds. But thank you for the promise in
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your word that you'll save us when we call you.
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Reach out to all who repent and believe, and if we do, we'll be
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saved. Or maybe take heed and follow
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your teaching. We pray in your name.