We Need Jesus | New C3 Core Values

Well, hello everyone.

Welcome to the C3 Podcast.

My name is Austin Weiss.

And joining me on today's podcast are some of C3's finest.

I'm joined by Keith Bell, our Creative Arts Minister.

Hello.

I'm joined by Kristen Stroud, our early childhood minister.

Hi.

And I'm also joined over phone with Charlie Mitchell, one of our C3 elders as well.

Hey Charlie.

Hi, everybody.

Great.

But man, we're very excited to have I'm excited to have each of you guests joining me in this conversation as we kind of dive deeper into our core values as a church to go along with this summer series we're doing called Vital Signs, which is five signs that you're fully alive in Christ.

And we believe here, the uh at C3, we believe the words of Jesus when he says that he has come to bring life, to give us life and life to the full.

And so the question is like, what is this life?

What is this full life that Jesus is calling us to?

What is it, what does it look like?

How do we know if we're really living a full life in him?

That's what we're uh discovering, and it's kind of gonna lead us forward as it as a church into what we're gonna go after.

Uh and so it leads us into these new core value statements as a church.

And the goal is for these statements not just to be true about us uh as a church, but also as individuals, like not just statements that we recognize or realize collectively, but also individually.

And so as we jump in, we're looking at this core value, uh, the our first one that really kind of drives the rest, drives the others.

And so no pressure to our guests today, but like today is uh ultimately um if we miss this one, then we kind of all the others are kind of out of whack.

Like if we don't have this one in the right, in the right uh priority, in the right zone, like this, this is the one that that that um that really directs the others.

So um you'll hear us talk throughout this series and these podcasts that this that these core values aren't necessarily a checklist that we work through one after another, uh like in a sequential order necessarily.

But when it comes to the value we're talking about today, if we miss it, then we miss the mark completely on all of them.

And this first realization we're talking about today is just this simple fact that I think we all know to be true is that we need Jesus.

And it's a collective truth about our church, but it's also individually for each of us.

Man, we need Jesus.

This is this is who we are as a church.

We're a gathering of people that realize that we we need Jesus.

And so, like each of these statements, you'll hear us say the we need statement, but the I need statement as well, we need Jesus, but I need Jesus.

And so I want to ask you guys as as guests here.

I'm thinking I'm gonna, Keith, I'm gonna start with you.

Of course.

Okay.

Um what like when when did you come to realize your need for Jesus in the first place?

Like when did that what what did that look like for you in your upbringing?

What did that look like for you um in your in your personal life?

What what what it look like for you to realize your need for Jesus personally?

Well, I think my parents did the best job they could um, you know, raising me in the church.

Uh they divorced when I was seven, and it it kind of became a very chaotic life for me going back and forth and uh you know, changed schools as a third grader, and so the community around me felt a little bit chaotic.

Um so when I went into high school, still the same situation, you know, parents weren't remarried or anything.

Um when I went into high school, I I just felt that even more.

Like I just was missing something in my life that a piece that I could see others had, but didn't know why they had it.

Um I was a part of a youth group at a Baptist church in Miami, and uh I finally felt connected there and it made sense when Jesus is what they had.

Um, you know, and I I didn't really have a personal relationship with Jesus, but I knew about, you know, uh God, I knew about uh w why I needed him, but I didn't have it yet.

And so I I remember making the decision at church camp.

Um I think it was going into my freshman year of high school and just realizing, hey, you know, they have a peace that I want, and you know, Jesus in my life uh can make a difference.

Um the peace, uh joy, and a sense of calmness that I really needed in my life.

So that's that's when I realized my need for him.

Obviously, not all that went away, uh, but I could see um my my mind changed, my attitude changed, my surrender of those things in my life, it it made a huge difference.

That was my story.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's um and there's something about that too, right?

Just seeing you have something, somebody has something that I that I don't have, and the the difference here is like foundational.

It's it's Jesus.

There's there's an obvious difference there.

What about you, Kristen?

What was what was for you personally um just where when you came to this realization?

So um I grew up in the church.

Also, my dad was a minister, and so I was around seven.

Um, I remember being at a Dairy Queen, and we were going through um a little baptism booklet.

And um even at that young age, I distinctly have a clear memory of when we were just really talking about sin and how that separates us from God.

Like it was in that moment where it wasn't just like, oh, I want to take communion now at church.

And it just hit me that I I have to have him.

I can't I can't save myself.

Um and I need I need Jesus if I want um life with him after death and um and to forgive my sins, that's not something that I'm going to be able to overcome.

Um and so it was at that young age that yeah, it was the weight of my sin that just was made clear to me.

And my sin at that age, you know, is disobeying my parents or hitting my sister or but still sin is sin and it separates us from God.

And so I am grateful that it was at such a young age that it was presented to me in that way, and I grasped onto that and um continue to need him today.

So yeah, for sure.

Charlie, what would you say?

What's what's what does this look like for you personally?

What what did it look like for you to come to this realization of you needing Jesus?

So for me, I was I was raised in the church.

Um uh I had a younger sister that passed away when I was nine.

Um and I remember thinking that the only way I would ever get to see her again would be by making sure that I got to heaven.

And and I knew at an early age that the only way to accomplish that was was through a relationship with Jesus.

Um fast forward, so I grew up in a church that did not have a strong uh youth support group.

We we it was it was a small church, a lot of a lot of older families.

Um and so um at 18 um I didn't have a strong base and was a bit rebellious, and so I spent the next seven or eight years just kind of wandering around doing my own thing and and honestly not doing it well.

Um when I met Julie 34 years ago later this month, um early on, one of the things she said was that um you know her her children were going to to be um in church.

Um and and you know if if my a condition of dating her was that I would be in church as well.

So I started coming to Carterville thirty-four years ago in in about a month from now.

Um and and it really wasn't until then that all of the teaching from from my youth came back.

Um and and it wa well I freely admit that it was it was forced re-entry, it was uh the best thing that ever happened to me.

Um and so it wasn't until I was in my mid-twenties that I realized that there was peace.

Um that life was easier uh when when I looked to him.

And so yeah.

Yeah.

It's cool hearing different stories of of, you know, even just right here in this room of of how the Lord has called each of you to himself.

I mean, I'm thinking the same I'm grew up in the church, born and raised in a church, and you know, accepted Jesus, I think, when I was seven years old.

And I don't think I fully understood everything.

Still obviously don't fully understand everything.

Um, but there were there were different moments throughout uh throughout my upbringing and even throughout ministry that have that have just the Lord's kind of just forced me into situations where it's like, all right, you can't lean on yourself anymore.

I need you have to rely on me if you're gonna get through this, if you're gonna learn this uh through this season or whatever it might be.

I heard, I think it was, I think Stacy told me this a long time ago, of like this, these this acceptance of Jesus and this need for Jesus kind of like as a kid, they like a lot of times a kid will accept Jesus because they're like, I want to follow Jesus.

That sounds awesome.

That sounds like an adventure, I want to do that.

But then a realization of, but I'm a sinful person and I I can't do anything without him, you know, because I can't save myself, maybe isn't all the way there for a kid.

And then as an adult, it flips that it's a lot of times like a like I realize that I cannot, I am a sinful person.

The older I get, the more I live, the more I realize, man, I am I am broken, but then the desire isn't always there of I don't always necessarily want to follow Jesus.

I would rather, I would rather just follow my own way, rather be my own boss.

So kind of a question moving into the next question is kind of like a like how do we tend to like we tend, I think as adults, tend to drift towards leaning on our own understanding and self-sufficiency and just relying on ourselves.

How do we, why is it so vital for us to have this need um of Jesus to realize I need to surrender to him in a not just in a one-time sense but in a daily sense?

What would you guys say?

Charlie, what would you say to that if you if you're thinking about like just the everyday living of constantly surrendering rather than just relying on yourself?

What does that look like?

Or how has the Lord taught you that over the years?

So I I spent a period of my life being self-reliant, um, and and seeing how poorly that had gone.

Um but society teaches that independence is is important and you know, relying on other people can be seen as weakness.

And so the world we view uh of how we live drives us.

Um we we have the free will to make choices um and we we want to be in control um and and we take pride in in our accomplishment.

Um and it it's easier what we see the w the world is is tangible in front of us.

Um um surrendering the God's will and and relying on Jesus really you know trusting that the God's will and his timing is perfect is difficult.

Um and and so we in times of trouble or when we have to make choices um sometimes it's just easier to default to what's comfortable um and and what we know and what we see, but we know that much of what we see is perfection um a lot of times we don't realize that until after the fact.

So um you know relying on Jesus is the only path we have to a relationship with God, it's the only path we forgive us.

Um when you know when I think of all the years I spent um you know, how do I get ahead tomorrow, how do I get ahead next week, you know where am I gonna be six months from now, where am I gonna be a year from now?

Um you know, none of that is really important when when we have that daily walk.

Um takes care of each day fourth.

Um you know, the path is already laid out in front of us, we just we just have to accept that it's not always clear.

But that's okay you know because of because of faith, we know that whatever today brings is it's really gonna be okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's real yeah, and I think like there's a the natural tendency of all of us, the natural drift of all of us is to uh a self-reliance, a self-sufficiency, a uh do it my do it myself kind of a thing, rather than rather than crucifying the flesh and then living living for the Lord.

Um but yeah, what you're what you're saying is like there's no there is no path other than Jesus, you know, when it really comes down to it.

Like there's there's no correct path to walk on other than the way and the truth and the life, like other than other than him.

What would you guys say about this?

Like, what is it what does it look like?

Uh why do we tend to drift toward that?

Or how have you learned this lesson, or how you still learning this lesson of how to lean on lean on the Lord rather than one thing I put down uh when I like to just put my answers down on a piece of paper, so if it's gonna feel robotic if I read it, but this is what I'm trying to say in a clear way.

So I put we naturally lack the ability to do everything on our own.

I think we want to we we all kind of know that, but I'm just too stubborn to accept that and it gets in the way more oftentimes than not.

That's my stubbornness and my yeah, my my thinking of surely I can figure this out on my own.

Um so and also I put self-sufficiency uh feels rewarding in the moment, so that's what drives me to it.

Uh I think uh pat on the back for me, I figured it out.

Um, but it really doesn't bring the joy that lasts at all.

Um it's what's next.

It's what Charlie mentioned, the you know, I'm I'm lucky enough to not have to have had this rebellion period in my life, but I could definitely see where I would fall into that trap of how can I get ahead tomorrow?

And um, you know, when you said that, Charlie, I I was like, Wow, I I'm glad and I'm I'm blessed to have not uh necessarily fallen into that into my life, but I could see where that would be a huge temptation.

Sure.

Trust me, you are.

Trust me when I say you are.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's so I think it's when I was thinking through this, it's so natural for us to um think we can do it on our own, because honestly, for a temporary time, we can, we kind of can, you know, like and I I think that is because we are made in the image of God.

We're image bearers.

So even I was thinking, even if people who are not intentionally living for God or living with Jesus, they they're still a part of God that is there, you know.

Like when you're made in the image of their when you're an image bearer, you have the capacity to be compassionate, you have the capacity to love, you have the ability to forgive, but it's going to be so much more limited because obviously we can't do it all.

We're not perfect, we're not God.

Um, we have we are we have parts of him as his creation, but we are not him.

And so I think in the world and even as Christians, it's so easy to get caught in that because it's like this is this is going okay.

I can or I think of some people that I know that seem to be living fairly peaceful, successful lives that are not walking with Jesus.

But when you look deep inside of them though, like they're gonna hit a wall of in their relationships and or their ability to have emotional and mental health to an extent of when they when they're not looking to Jesus, when they're not getting their supply from him, um, they're gonna be limited in their ability to forgive a spouse or a friend when they're not drawing that from Jesus, or um their their ability to work well and accomplish things is going to be limit or it may it may look successful, but it's gonna be lacking a certain fruit, or it's going to drain them in a way that's not sustainable, or and so I don't know, that's what I thought of.

It's like it can be it can be deceiving because we have we have an ability to an extent, but it's going to run out.

And then ultimately, obviously, when our our days come to an end, we absolutely can't face eternity at all without him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think there's there's I think there's like this idea too in our in churches in general, not just in our church, but in churches in general and with with people coming to coming to know and and believe Jesus, sometimes, you know, we um have this uh like once once we get somebody in the waters of baptism, like that's it.

That's the finish line too.

And so when we say, I'm I want to clarify as we're talking about when we need Jesus, it's not just for salvation, yeah, right?

Absolutely we need Jesus for salvation.

Apart from him, we are hopeless, right?

Apart from his finished work on the cross and the the empty tomb, like we are to be pitied, is what Paul says.

We're to be pitied more than anybody else.

But at the same time, the life that Jesus has for us is way more than just a single solitary moment of baptism and surrender in that moment, but it's an everyday decision of okay, you're the Lord of my life now.

So, what does this look like?

I think what is what is like how is how is this different?

How is dependence on Jesus different than just saying, I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of Living God, in a one-time thing in a confession and baptism?

Like, what does the uh daily dependence on him look like?

And how does it look differently than just um than just saying once one time?

Kristen, what would you say what does this look like?

Um well just yeah, just what you said, it's it's a surrender.

Like I can believe in Jesus, but I can still hold the reins in my life, I can still hold the control.

And so dependency takes that active surrender of me laying things down.

And um I when I think of what that looks practically, um it's as simple as, yeah, when I'm going throughout my day and I'm feeling I'm trying to push through.

Um, but when I stop and it's like I haven't even invited God into this moment, I haven't asked him to help me in my work today.

I haven't asked him to help me resolve this parenting conflict.

I haven't asked him to give me wisdom and my problem solving.

And he answers it's so it's it sounds silly like duh, but he does.

And I'm humbled every time when I'm feeling like the burden is too big.

And I just stop and I ask him, just help I need your help.

I need your wisdom.

Like I'm trying to do it too much on my own.

And that piece comes and those answer, and it's it's not gonna be that black and white every time.

It's not like I get a letter with everything written down on this is what you do.

But um he he does, he shows up and though the weight is lifted when I when I truly give it over.

Um and or even at the end of the day, something I will try to pray or even over my kids as they start to worry is that we serve a God that doesn't stop because he doesn't have to.

He's not dependent on anything else, he is self-reliant, but I get to stop and rest.

And how much a rest is an actual gift?

Um, I try to present I try to say that in my home that um that surrender of going to sleep is a gift, actually, because that means I'm not having to do it all and I can't do it all, but I have a God that does keep working, and he is going to um he is looking at tomorrow and the next day and the next day where an eye can shut my eyes and sleep.

So Yeah.

I've heard uh I've read, I can't remember who said it, but uh author said, Yeah, you can go to sleep at peace because God is at work, right?

You know that he is constantly working and at your side.

I mean it makes me almost makes me think of you know, even in the midst of Peter stepping out of the boat and and walking on water and and following the like depending on Jesus as he does, like like completely relying and having faith, a crazy demonstration of faith in in the one who's who's making this possible for him, then begins to doubt in the storm that's surrounded, starts looking at the storm around him.

And as As he as he cries out to Lord, to the Lord, will you help me?

Like it the text says immediately Jesus went down and picked him up.

And that word is convicting for me because how many times am I caught in the middle of whatever's around me?

And I'm not, I'm just, I'm just like, I can figure this out.

I can gut it out.

I can put my head down.

I know enough.

I can lean on my own understanding here, rather than just saying, God, I need your help.

And he's not just there, but willing, wanting to help me.

If I will just say, hey, will you help me?

You know, like how many times I'm just, I still want to hold the reins of my own life rather than just letting him have it.

I don't know.

What do you think, Charlie?

What's what's what comes to your mind when you think of the difference between just like believing in Jesus but then depending on him?

So for me, believing is is just I accept the fact that all the years, all the sermons I've heard, all the teaching I've said through, everything I've read about him in the Bible, believing that's fact.

Okay.

Um that yeah, Jesus was all these things.

Um reliance.

I learned a long time ago that um I need wisdom a lot in my life.

I need help.

I need I need help helping others.

Um and that realization that I don't have the answers that he does.

Um and so you know the decisions that we make, you know, if we if we'll turn to him for guidance, if we we will rely on his grace, um and and understand that sometimes the answer is no, um, or sometimes the answer isn't as as clear and and how design how it's still there.

Um and you know that that dependence is is what sometimes gets me through today because you know because of my own shortcomings, because of everything I've done wrong, I still have the opportunity tomorrow to to do better because of that um and and within help.

Um and and I know that when I struggle the most is when I get into my old habits and start relying on myself too much again.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

What about you, Keith?

What what what comes to your mind when you think of what day the difference between day daily dependence and and just believing?

Probably the probably a short answer here, but um I think of the practical side.

Sure.

Am I rolling out of bed in the morning?

Am I being thankful uh for another day of breath and life?

And uh am I rolling out of bed with an attitude of being submissive to whatever the Lord has for my day?

Yeah.

Um am I uh realizing in that moment that I am uh falling short?

I fall I fell short the day before, I'm probably gonna fall short um that afternoon.

And am I willing to ask for forgiveness and be open to um just looking to him?

Uh one as you guys were talking a while ago, I'd I I I thought of a practical way to potentially measure your dependence on God.

Um and I was thinking, in in any given moment of frustration, of of of uh irritation of a day, how quick am I saying to myself, God help me with this?

Am I saying it in the middle of it?

Am I saying it after I've blown up and my kids about something?

Is it five minutes after whenever my wife says, Hey, you know, did you we probably should calm down a little bit quicker next time?

Am I saying it then?

You're right.

I know I I sometimes I feel like my dependence um on God is is earlier, later, but I I I waver back and forth between uh you know those based off of circumstantial things around me.

And and I think if if I'm able to at some point in my life, currently not able to, but at some point, um if I'm able to look to the Lord in the midst of or maybe before something even happens, hey, this is this is about to happen, and at what point am I inviting God into this and am I asking for his help?

So yeah, these are my thoughts.

Yeah.

I think like like we think about like our our church is going to be healthier if we all come to this realization that we all need Jesus.

It helps us, it's gonna help us be more unified because there's some there's something true about every single person that walks in this door.

It's this, it's this fact, we all need Jesus.

Like apart from Jesus, we are we can do nothing, we are lost, we are helpless, hopeless people without him.

But when we all come to this realization, hey, we all that we all need Jesus, that it's I need him and you need him as well, we all need him, then it's like, oh, yeah, you're you know, you're my brother and sister.

Why am I gonna hold anything against you right now?

Why am I gonna hold on to this grudge?

Why am I going to I don't why am I going to um resist community with you?

Why am I going to uh keep you at an arm's distance?

Why am I going to uh yeah, like why am I gonna harbor any envy towards you or anything?

Like why am it's gonna it's extremely unifying.

Um so like we think this is like this is a vital thing for us to for us to um to come to realize as a church at together.

I I wanna kind of continue on what what Keith's talking about is what does this look like practically for somebody?

Like somebody listening to this episode might be thinking, yeah, well I've I realize I need Jesus, right?

Obviously, I got baptized, right?

What how else do I how else do I come to come to know this daily dependence on him?

What does it look like?

So maybe even just personally, practically, what does that look like for you uh to daily, daily depend on Jesus?

What are moments throughout your day that you're like bringing that to mind?

And I realize I'm asking that question, and as a sinner, two three other sinners who are trying to figure this out daily and we're constant consistently, none of us are perfect in this.

Um, but what is what have been helpful things for you practically to make this happen?

Uh keeping your pride in check is is always I mean, even just as normal relationships around you, but the relationship with the Lord exists on a certain level, and if there's a lot of pride in how you do things or what you've accomplished, then there's creating a wall between you and the Lord, I think.

So keeping your pride in check, which is hard for anybody for sure.

Yeah, that whole yeah, he humbles those who exalt themselves and will exalt those who are humble who humble themselves.

So yeah, there's that whole like the the races to the bottom in the kingdom.

It's a race to the bottom, not not a race to the top in the kingdom.

What would you say, Charlie?

What was daily dependence look like for you?

So it's it's acknowledging our own weaknesses, my weaknesses.

Um and it's remembering that, you know, it's it's easy to pray when when I'm in a valley, it's it's easy to remember to pray when when a storm of life hit.

Um but remembering the prison in those moments, and it's also um the key point of the time and humbling ourselves and realizing when when we're on those peaks, when when life's going gray, um to remember you know the closure moments that that God gave us through you know, everything we have um is is because of God.

Um and you know without him I have nothing.

And so, you know, when when something's going well, it's not look at what I did, you know, look at what God did to me.

Um look look what look uh look at the gift I've been given today.

Yeah.

And I think for me it's it's I I'm I'm okay with that because much of my life has been a gift and and I really acknowledge that it hasn't been because of anything I've done.

Um it's it's been it's all been God um and and him using others around me to to lift me up.

Um but and I've and I learned a long time ago that praying when when things aren't going great makes me feel better because it it hasn't been natural for me to pray for the nose moment.

And I I always feel better when I remember to.

Um and you know, I it I having had the opportunity to to spend some time outside of that relationship, I know I know what total self-reliance looks like and it's it's not much fun.

It's just not you know, in the short term, you know, well I I managed to survive and and made it through this day, and you know, I've come to understand years later that that was just because God done with me yet.

Yeah.

Um that you know, I I did manage to survive that time.

Yeah.

So I think as w w what you're talking about is kind of what we talked about um in our study in Philippians, as as you know, as Paul can say, I've learned the secret of being content whether I have abundance and plenty or I have need.

I'm I'm in hunger and need on the other side.

And it's sometimes we can get distracted.

It's that reorienting prayer in either of those seasons or anywhere in between of God, you're as I look around and see the abundance around me and what you I realize you're the one who's provided this.

And I I completely depend on you, I'm satisfied in you above all of it.

And then even in the midst of this trial or this storm or being in need, I still am looking to you.

I rely on you, I'm satisfied in you alone.

I don't need anything else around me other than other than you and you alone.

So it's a good, yeah, reorienting prayer uh throughout the whole thing.

What would you say, Kristen?

What's what's daily dependence look like practically for you?

Similar to what Charlie had said, just um I mean, like trying to say thank you as much as I can, um, to not take credit or even if it's something as simple as like when I'm writing a lesson and I think of a creative activity or something, it's like thank you for God for giving me that.

Like that didn't come from me.

Um and and so just trying to any or an interaction that I had with someone, like thank you for that conversation, or thank you that um I was able to resolve this conflict with someone and thank you that so just honestly trying to keep that, and obviously some days are better than others.

Um I'm not perfect at it, but um because just trying to, yeah, give give the glory to where it's due and um like Wiki said to stay humble about something because when something goes well, it feels good and it's easy to um give yourself a pat on the back and not that we can't ever have some sense of pride in what we're doing, but that it ultimately is because God equipped me in that moment or he he gifted me in this skill, or like it still all stems from him.

Um and then the obvious is being in the word.

Um that's the answer for everything is when I notice very quickly um if there's consecutive days that I have not been in scripture, um, how quickly my perspective changes, um, the world is crumbling around me, um, everything seems so much, and it's like I can be walking through the same exact circumstances, but I'm going to approach them so differently with a different kind of patience, or or I'm able to have that gratitude and give God the glory, or and so um it's it's our food for a reason, you know.

Um it's the living, the living bread for a reason.

Yeah.

Um yeah.

Yeah, that's the the words of the psalmist, I've I've hidden your word in your heart in my heart so that I may not sin against you.

I heard a preacher recently just say, um, God's not gonna draw out of you, God will cannot draw out of you what hasn't been placed in you.

Like that you have to you have to meditate on his word in a way that that when you find yourself in one of those seasons, that he will be able to draw this out of you to redirect you.

His spirit will will do this this work mightily in you.

I think, I mean, when I think practically for us, again, not perfect by any means, but we're you know, trying to raise four kids, you know, to be faithful followers of Jesus.

And um I'm always convicted.

I have like a Facebook post I posted years ago that I'm convicted every time it comes up because I'm like, man, I need to be better at that.

But it's ultimately God is the one who God is the one who initiates every work in your child's heart.

So how are you praying for them?

How are you continuing to bring them before the Lord and that ask that of them?

And so even like in our discipline of our of our kids, we've gone through seasons where we're better at this than we are, even currently, I would say we're not great at this, but I've got to get on one of my kids, they go to timeout, or they uh, you know, lose a privilege or they get you know swaps or whatever it might be in our home.

But then as a at the end of that, we have a face-to-face conversation.

I'm able to redirect them and then I'm and then I sit and then I pray with them.

And when we're in the best, in the best case.

Then it's like, all right, then I'm then I'm able to pray with you.

And it's not just I got mad at you and and disciplined you because I was just annoyed with you, you know.

That is me being completely self-reliant and only like just selfish, even in my discipline of my kids.

They might have not done something that was great, but if I'm not um if I'm not disciplining them so that they can become more Christ-like, then ultimately it's just self-serving.

It's not like it doesn't, it's not doing them any favors.

So even that of just a reorienting prayer after I discipline them helps them see my dependence on the Lord and then helps hopefully foster that in them as well.

Thanks for that conviction.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But there's yeah, but definitely not doing that perfectly by any means.

I I think, well, I'm like super encouraged by this by this conversation, and really like this is not we're not gonna be able to unpack every single thing, every single detail of why you the importance of why you need Jesus or why we need Jesus.

Uh we hope that we hope that it's an encouraging, encouraging to you.

And that's kind of where I want to end is hey, what kind of practical, what, what encouragement would you give to somebody today?

They're they've realized their need for Jesus, but maybe they're just struggling to just depend on him.

What would you give that what kind of encouragement, encouraging word to send them off?

So anybody's listening to this right now, what would you say to them?

Uh I'll go first.

I uh put down this and I I want to say it as I wrote it because I just don't want to fumble over it.

So uh the starting point of someone's surrender looks different for everyone.

And if we all waited for the perfect time to do anything, we'd never make the first move.

Uh your story could be exactly what someone needs to hear in order for to start their own journey of faith in Jesus.

So that's my encouragement if you're sitting out there thinking, why do I need this?

And if you're too far gone, that that that's not possible.

So yeah, yeah.

What would you say, Charlie?

What encouragement would you give to somebody who's trying to to come to this daily dependence on on the Lord?

So I'm a perfect example of his grace as in that um it's it's enough for for all of us, it's enough for anybody.

I've always taken the view that life is precious and and God hasn't opened the door to wait to enter you until you left breath.

Um and the Bible of the history of of God restoring people um and and using them despite the bad decisions they were making and why we're living apart from them.

So it's it's never too late.

Um and and to think that you're too broken in is a worldly view.

Um and you know, that's why being in church, that's why hearing the word, that's why being in community um is is so important.

And in any way it's it's never too late.

Yeah, yep.

Yeah, it's my it makes me think of my grandpa shared the four things God doesn't know.

God doesn't know a a sin he doesn't hate, he doesn't know a sinner he doesn't love, he doesn't know a sinner he can't save, and he doesn't know a better time to accept him than now, to come to him now.

Um yeah, you're not too far gone.

His grace reaches you right where you are.

What would you say, Kristen?

Um similar again to what Charlie said, um that just looking to stories in scripture is my encouragement.

Um I know like if you heard you know the Philippian sermons of those can sound like or you you know you can pick apart one verse and be like these words come from someone that is so righteous and that is not me.

It's like, well, who was Paul when he was Saul?

Yeah.

Um just these are true stories of and I was thinking on Paul the other day, and it's like I don't know if I've really pondered him his previous life that much of like he was persecuting, hunting down Christians, wanting to ruin Christianity and the church.

He hated this happening.

That's who God, that's what Jesus appeared to and said, Hey, I want you to follow me and to do my ministry.

And so um, not that we should be comparing ourselves to other people, but that look what he can do from just that's one story.

The Bible is full of them, like Charlie was saying.

And then um that when if it's it's you're not too late, it's not too far gone.

I think of the thief on the cross next to Jesus.

He waited in his final moments of breath and to say, you know, basically, Jesus, like I want to follow you.

And he said, I will see you again.

And so there is always enough time um if you're listening, and um to look to the stories of either people around you who are walking with Jesus, um, hearing testimonies is always so encouraging um for what God has redeemed, and then and looking to scripture and the Bible of who God used to write a big hunk of the New Testament is someone who was living an awful, terrible, sinful life.

And um so don't underestimate his power.

Yep.

No one, no one is beyond God's reach.

And I would also say, like, so yes, if you need to hear that right now, if you're listening to this and and just say, like, I don't, yeah, I feel like I'm too far gone.

You are not too far gone.

I want to reiterate what everybody's saying.

You are not too far gone.

No one is beyond God's reach, and that includes you.

But also, hey, no, no moment, no circumstance, no situation you find yourself in, even in this very moment, this very day, no moment is beyond God's reach either.

He is right there with you.

Um, you're not meant to do this by your own power, you're not meant to walk this life by yourself.

He's he literally is is right there within an arm's reach.

Ready to help.

Would you call on him today and and and ask him to come be a part of it?

So and we hope this has been encouragement to you.

Thank you guys so much for being part of this discussion.

Thanks, Charlie, for being part of this.

And we um yeah, just super, super excited about where the Lord is is leading us as a church.

Um, man, and may it be true of us that we come to this realization that we all we all need Jesus.

Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time.