We Need To Grow | New C3 Core Values

Well, hello, welcome to the C3 Podcast.

I'm Austin Weiss, and joining me on today's podcast are some of C3's finest.

I have with me Gwen Utter, our C3 uh children's minister.

Hello.

Hello, Gwen.

I have with me Stacy Spickright, our C3 family minister.

Hello.

And then also one of our elders as well, Dave McCune.

Good morning.

Yeah, we're excited to be with you.

Excited to have each of you joining in on this conversation with me as we dive into really our core values as a church.

So we're going through this series right now as a church through the month of June called Vital Signs, Five Signs That We're Fully Alive.

And here, so here at C3, we believe that we believe the words of Jesus when he says he's come to come that we may have life and have it to the full.

So what we're trying to discover is what does this mean to have a full life in Christ?

What does it really look like?

And are there things that we're missing, you know, out on?

Are there parts of this full life that we're missing out on if we're if we're missing different different things?

And it's kind of led into these new core value statements as a church.

And the goal of these statements is not just to be true for us collectively, but also individually.

Not just, yeah, we need these things, but also I need these things.

And that kind of leads us into what we're talking about today, which is we need, we need to grow.

We need to be growing in our walk with the Lord, not just as a church, but also as individuals.

And this growth that we're talking about isn't a numerical growth, you know, as a church, but more of like a discipleship growth is what we're what we're getting at.

And I want to kind of start with start this conversation with um with the why behind it.

Now, disclaimer, before we jump into this discussion, if you're hoping to listen to this podcast and have all of your questions answered, have all of the things figured out of have a have a 12-step plan on how you how you're gonna grow for the rest of your life, this is probably not the podcast for you.

I don't know if there is a podcast like that out there.

Um, but we just want to kind of start the conversation and hope that you will continue it um within community here at at church as you continue to grow and walk with the Lord.

But want to start with this question of why.

Why do you think it's important?

So, Gwen, I'm gonna ask you first.

Um, why do you think it's important for us to be growing in the Lord?

Like, why why would we say, why would we say like we need it?

We need growth in our in our walk with Christ.

What would you say?

Um, to live as a disciple, we need to know more of who God is.

So we have to constantly be growing.

Um also I think when you start spending time with God, it creates a desire to know him more.

We're never gonna know all the things, but think about a person that you just love to spend time with.

When you create time with God, it's just like being with that person that you're like, I gotta know more, I gotta figure out some more of this.

Like um, so just taking that step to create time to be with him will make you grow.

Sure.

I think um I have just read recently some uh a scholar saying like calling it wasting time with God, you know?

Like just like a with the those that you really love and are enthralled with.

Yeah, you're fine just to be with them, doing absolutely nothing, but just like being in their presence and and soaking that in.

It's really good.

Stacy, what would you say?

What's what's what's why is this important, this need?

I think I would say that it's just fulfilling our deepest purpose as a disciple is that we are in a constant state of growth.

Um, kind of piggybacking on what Miss Gwen said, I think we exist to know him, and then the more we grow, the more we want to know him.

So we I think our whole existence as a disciple should be this circle that is just we want to know him, we want to grow, we want to grow, we get to know him more.

And so it just um kind of keeps going.

And then I think um also it really fulfills what we've been told to do in scripture, that as we grow in our spiritual life, our integrity and knowledge of him, um that's living out the best life he's called us to live.

And then therefore, that impacts our home, our um best friends, our family, our friends, our coworkers, our community.

So I think it's fulfilling um what he has, the path he's created for us is that as we grow, this these things are impacted around you.

So um, yeah, I would just say it's essential uh to be in that.

And I think I probably would say I had to get convicted of that, that I thought it kind of just happened.

Like I think there was growing up in the church and being one of those people that is kind of a rule follower kind of a person, I just kind of thought growth just kind of happened.

And I think realizing no, I'm supposed to enter into this equation um to be intentional in this, to know him more.

I will grow as I grow, I get to know him more.

Yeah.

No, that's really good.

That's really good.

What would you say, Dave?

Yeah, I would definitely echo that.

There's a really common myth we have, at least in our country, um, that is really subtle and it's that progress is inevitable.

Tomorrow will be better than today.

I can't tell you why, it just will.

And that's not it's not a guarantee.

So growth is certainly not inevitable.

So that's really good to point out, Stacey.

Um, I'd say there's kind of the internal reason is that God is inexhaustible.

And so if we think we've got him kind of figured out, definitely not.

So knowing that there's more riches to explore uh obviously benefits our life and that there's there's no end to it.

So the the discovery is endless, and then outward facing when what that's just like they said, when you're growing, that spills out of you into others, and then your growth is actually encouraging others and allowing people to maybe interact with the Lord for the first time because you're you're growing and you can't help it.

You can't help but talk about it.

Yep.

I appreciate this about each of you at this table.

It's just your heart for this, for helping people grow, seeing that on display in in the church for sure, um, in a in so many different areas.

Um, but just your yeah, your heart to help people realize this need to grow.

But also, I've seen it in each of you personally too, uh, through many years of walking with you and and doing life with you.

Uh it's just seeing your own, like, your own personal desire to continue to grow um in the Lord.

What what what are what are seasons in your life that have provided provided opportunities to grow the most, do you think?

Dave, what would you say?

Like different different moments in your life, or as you're looking back, yeah, here's the moments where God has brought the most growth out of me.

What would you say?

I honestly hate my own answer.

Okay.

But it it for sure has been the most difficult seasons.

So I think a little bit of that is um I'm confident that kind of like I just joked about, that things will be okay and they'll turn out and we'll figure it out.

And sometimes you can't.

And so coming to the end of uh your own resources and abilities or your own understanding, when you kind of run run out of that is when I feel like I've been most open to growing.

And it's not like that's the only times I've grown, but for sure the times I've grown the most is the times where I I ran out of of my resources and really had to throw myself upon the grace of God, and and those have been easily the most uh, especially in hindsight, the most joyful times of growth.

Yeah, yeah.

There's something about that.

Whenever you're you have to be, you have no other option than to be completely dependent on on God in this season, for sure.

For sure.

Stacy, what would you say?

What's what are what are the areas of your life that have provided most growth for you?

Um I I would say difficult seasons, and I would say a very difficult season in my twenties was a pivotal point when I had that realization that I I was we were completely out of resources.

I felt isolated and alone, and I thought I'm I'm not really growing here.

I'm wrestling through anxiety and depression and different things.

And so I would say there was definitely a point where I had that point where I I I want to grow in my relationship.

But I'm I'm gonna let the two of them talk about difficult seasons, and I thought I think what I bring to the table here too would be I've experienced a lot of change in my life, and um at my age, I would say I've just experienced a lot of change, and I think oppor change is an opportunity to lean into God more.

And some of those changes are awesome and wonderful, sure.

And some of those changes are hard, and um, I would just say every season of change is has drawn me closer to want to look more like Jesus.

So Yeah, I would say when obviously difficult seasons we tend to draw closer to God.

But also I think I can tell when I've kind of hit a stopping point because not just difficultness but busyness can make me not grow because then I'm not taking the time to spend in the word with God because tons of things are just getting me off track.

So to grow as a disciple, we want to look more like him.

And I can sense the times in my life where I'm like saying things that are a bit harsh or rude.

Um Stacy has, you know, caught me on a couple of those before.

So I'm like, oh, I have not been spending enough time.

Um, my walk has paused, or um, so I think busy seasons are an important time as well as difficult seasons to kind of lean in and stay close no matter how busy you are.

And even like, yeah, in a similar way, it's the the busyness can also crowd out my uh, which we're we'll get into it in a different um a different core value, but also like my need for growth and my need for other people speaking into my life are so closely related in a lot of times.

Like I can I can trace back some of the biggest times of growth were some of the times that I was the just the most open and honest with with a brother in in Christ who was able to lead me through or hold me accountable on something that I that I needed help with.

Um so how closely related those are.

And some sometimes life gets so busy that even those relationships become just a hey, how you doing in the church atrium rather than a rather than a deep conversation on a weeknight or an early morning coffee or whatever, whatever the case may be.

So yeah, what are what are some of the what are some of those habits, disciplines that you've implemented into your life that have helped continue the growth?

We've already kind of touched on it, but like what what does that look like a little bit more specifically to help in those times of growth, like facing change or difficult circumstances or whatever the case may be.

Stacey, what would you say on this of like a a habit that has um that has just really rooted you, grounded you um in in helping you grow even in the midst of difficult seasons or I would say I think I was trying to think of what I could say that would be a little bit unique, um, but I just two things come to my mind right away.

And I would say creating space for reflection on the circumstances, my responses uh are just habits I'm trying to do now, like uh reflecting on the thought pattern I had in that certain circumstance.

Like what was going on there?

Why did you think that way?

So I'm trying to build in the rhythm of reflection regularly.

And then um a practice I put in when seasons of my life where I had a van full of keddos and I was constantly, you know, what we'd call an Uber driver.

Um, and that season is long gone, and I still try to practice um this is wherever I am going is what my prayer life is, where whatever the next thing is.

If I'm headed to the high school, then I'm praying for students there or teachers, or if I'm headed to church, whatever the neck wherever I'm going next is what I'm praying as I'm going.

And that has helped me to grow through thinking about myself when I'm inwardly.

I naturally don't think I'm can do anything.

So I naturally think, well, I'm probably gonna mess that up, or I'm probably gonna do something.

And so those thoughts can become very self-inwardly, and they're not growth thoughts.

So if I can just be praying for whatever that next thing that that I'm doing has kind of been a discipline for me.

Yeah.

It makes me think of we just ended our our last discussion with this thought, like, hey, no one is beyond God's reach, but also no moment is beyond God's reach.

Like he's he's there in every single it's Eugene Peterson says it's the the idea of prevenience.

Every time we come in on a situation, God is already at work, already moving, already doing something.

So instead of saying, God will you show up here or will you meet me here, it's God will you show me how you're here.

Yeah, will you will you open my eyes to see your presence in this moment?

What about you, Gwen?

What would you say?

What are some what's a habit, discipline uh that has helped grow?

I'm a journaler, so that has uh which kind of came from a difficult season and drawing close.

So um that's a huge one for me.

When I'm reading and I'm trying to think about what I'm learning I can journal, and when I'm praying I uh journal, I have a much richer prayer life when I sit with a journal and actually write it out.

Um, but one thing I've been doing over probably the past year and a half is every time I read scripture, I'm looking at it with a lens of what does this teach me about the character of God?

And so that really has been a good um growth for me.

So every time I'm in scripture, what does this tell me about the character of God?

Because a lot of times we can read and think, okay, what am I getting about out of this and how am I gonna change?

But if I'm making that lens, who is God?

Um, it's just a rich experience to know him more.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

What'd you say, Dave?

Yeah, trying to think about maybe the not so obvious things, because some of them are yeah, you need to read your Bible and pray and be in community.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, those become rote and you forget what that means.

So for me, um, thinking back all the way to when I was a teenager and became a Christian, these two things have been true at my best.

And it's that I had a spiritual mentor, somebody who not just was teaching me things, but I could look at their life.

And like Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ.

That person is living a life where they could say that to me and I could I could follow, follow their their way of living, and it's it's real and it's tangible, and I can watch it play out.

And then um similarly, as a group, including myself of two or three people, um, where you are really close, you um you can skip the pleasantries, you know, you don't spend the first hour together talking about the weather or sports.

You can you can talk about that stuff too, but you get right down to what's the Lord teaching you, where have you been uh failing?

Where are you not living up to who you want to be?

And you can just get right down to that stuff with um no fear of judgment or abandonment.

You're just really getting to the to the heart.

And anytime I've been, I feel like really thriving in my spiritual life, that group of it's you know, me plus one or two other people max.

And I feel like those those have been the richest seasons of life spiritually.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

It's like just more of, yeah, what we're gonna cover in another one, more of just this.

We're not meant to do this alone.

Like we are meant to to link arm in arm with with brothers and sisters in Christ and and not meant to carry the our burdens alone, you know, not even meant to rejoice alone, but meant to share all the things, all the in-between, all that together.

I want to get a little a little practical with with specifically with with because I'm thinking somebody listening to this podcast may be maybe brand new to to walking with the Lord, and they might be like, yeah, I don't I don't know what this looks like practically in my life.

Um and then somebody might have might be listening to this podcast who's been walking with the Lord for 30 or 50 years or something like that, you know, and might be like, yeah, I feel like I've got it down, you know.

Um and yet like prayer and Bible study are still like they're things that we don't graduate from, they're things that we don't ever master completely, you know, they're things that we are continuing to grow in.

So I want to talk a little bit about those uh those things.

So what what do you what do you see?

How what role, let's start with prayer, what role does does prayer have in your growth in the Lord?

What would you say, Dave, to this um of like yeah, just just your your prayer life, how it has even even you can get personal with this, like how how it has grown over years of following, of walking with the Lord, but then also like why is it important to continue cultivating this, you know, in your in your own growth with the Lord.

Yeah, it's kind of back to the first question.

Um, you know, that God is inexhaustible.

And so there's yeah, how we started this whole thing.

There's more.

There's more than we're aware of, there's more than we know, and prayer in and even studying scripture is definitely that way.

So yeah, if you feel like you've arrived, that's a bad, that's a bad place to be.

So there is more, no matter how many times you've read it cover to cover, no matter how many times a day you pray, there is more.

There's a there's a depth that you have not experienced.

And I don't think that's I don't that's not really controversial.

We just don't think about it that way.

So with prayer, um, where it is really beautiful and unique is it's it's your living conversation with the living God.

So it's not static, it's dynamic, you're engaging with the Holy Spirit moment by moment.

So when you when you encounter a situation and you're trying to think, well, what does the Bible say about this?

And it may not say something specifically about your specific situation or the specific person right in front of you versus prayer, you're engaging with the the living God via the Holy Spirit, and He can say, in this moment for this specific person, this is what they need.

They need you to just shut up and listen.

Or this person really needs you to say this.

And it may not even make sense to you, but they need to hear it.

And so prayer is prayer is just such a living thing versus a lot of the other disciplines we can engage in.

And it's uh yeah, it's some a friend of mine says it happens at the speed of life versus trying to remember something you read or you heard or uh pull out a cheat sheet or whatever.

Like the Holy Spirit's right there with you.

And so prayer is I to say it's essential to your growth is not that doesn't even quite cut it, you know.

That doesn't cover it.

So yeah, yeah.

That's good.

When would what would you say uh about the importance of prayer and cultivating that prayer and and growth?

I think it's ever changing.

I'm um have the opportunity this week to be with some junior hires at camp and getting to hear them pray.

Um is so wonderful.

And so, but guess what?

Their prayer sounds a little different than mine or someone else's, but that's the way it's supposed to be.

So just start.

If you are just starting out following God, just start a conversation wherever you are, whenever you are, whatever pops into your head, and the spirit will be right there with you.

Um, so it just kind of evolves.

I've changed many different things over the years about how I pray, and a current one that I love to use as a breath prayer, where I pray in or breathe in and say one thing and breathe out and say the other.

Um so when thoughts start bombarding my head of all the things, I live on to-do lists.

They're my favorite.

And so right now, when those to-do lists start just rolling in my head, I can say, I trust in you, Lord.

Um, you will provide.

Like it's just that simple.

And that can kind of stop that thought.

And that is a conversation between me and God.

And one other thing that I just want to say is that really changed my prayer life was praying scripture back to God.

Yeah.

So I it that was transformative for me.

So if you haven't tried that, I pick scriptures for my kids for my friends for whatever season for myself and pray that scripture for them.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was I was gonna add into that too.

Like I remember our first church in um Illinois, there would be a man that would get up and pray, and you couldn't tell the difference between his words and scripture words.

They just they just melded together, and I was like, There, that's what I want to be like when I grow up, kind of a thing.

And and then um I read a book by Beth Moore that talked about just praying God's word.

Um and that chain that was really that opened up.

Growth for me that I started doing what Miss Gwynn said as I started just using his word to pray back.

And um it it released those times where I don't know what to say, which we are promised in scripture.

We don't have to know what to say.

And so I always want to help people with that.

You don't have to know what to say.

The spirit groans on our behalf.

We have that promise in scripture.

So one, you don't have to know.

Two, Jesus does give us a model of how to pray.

He does give us something to kind of to format.

I think I've will confess in front of you guys, like I think I have done okay over the years with the living conversation, like on the go, like I said.

But I've always thought, man, you need to grow.

Stacey in the long, the long prayer, staying focused, staying um in that, where Jesus would pray for hours and hours and hours, you know, and he'd get frustrated with his disciples.

And I'm like, yep, I'm I'm one of them.

And so um, I mean that I'm confessing, I I want to grow in those, those longer prayer portions where I'm not distracted and I'm not allowing something to interrupt those thoughts.

But uh, I mean, we all have something, you know, we can grow.

I think there's people that are great at that and they're not praying on the go.

And so um anyway, I th I think prayer is an essential part, and I don't think you arrive.

I agree with what Dave said.

I think that is something we can see throughout scripture that there's different types of prayers, there's different models of prayers, there's different seasons of life to pray.

And um, so I I want to keep growing and prayer is I think prayer is listening as well as talking.

And so I think growth is when we're just still with him and we're just listening.

Yeah.

And I think I would say if you feel like you're l if you're listening to this and you feel like, yeah, I need to I need to keep growing in my in my prayer life, you're in good company, right?

It's the like the disciples asked Jesus, teach us how to pray of all things, not teach me how to how to exercise that demon over there or teach me how to how to walk uh how to walk on water consistently, you know, but teach me how to pray.

Um I was convicted there was a quote, C.

S.

Lewis quote, several several years ago that I felt like um that has just stuck stuck in my head.

And it was in in prayer, you bring to him what is in you, not what ought to be in you.

Because I think growing up in church, it was like I've got to order my own stuff before I bring it to the Lord rather than just taking him.

He wants to know every moment, he knows every moment, he wants to be involved in every moment, and it's a it's a prayer's an invitation into God, I'm I'm doing this and I don't want to do it without you.

So will you come and and and do this with me, whatever I'm currently doing right now.

So um, yeah, love all the things you can say.

I think it's really if you didn't, if you're if you're a new believer trying to figure out, trying to figure out what does this look like for me practically, I think you just got several practical things you can you can start even right now today.

Um okay, so what one more thing I'd throw in there just because it was really helpful to me, is um I my mind's always going, so I'm really easily distracted.

And so a way that my prayer has changed in the last probably five or less years is it's almost always out loud.

And it's so much harder to get distracted when I pray out loud.

And that's that's I wouldn't say it's dramatic to say that it's transformed my prayer life because I'm able to actually pray longer and not one wander off and um get get lost in thought.

And so that's been nobody, you know, I don't remember anybody ever talking about that growing up.

And that's been a simple thing that's helped me a ton.

So if that's helpful to somebody, that's great.

I read something similar, just like always change your posture of prayer, don't just do the same thing all the time.

So if you if you're a practice of praying out loud, then at some point start writing your prayers.

Or if you never kneel, try so just changing your posture of prayer.

I had read, can't remember where right now, but that um changing that will develop that muscle, that prayer muscle, even more.

Sure, sure.

That's really good.

I I love it.

What what a what so let's go to let's go to like study of scripture.

What would you say um if we're looking at um like what is why is it important to continue to continue in this in this growth?

Um like Dave, you said earlier, just if we've come to a moment like I have arrived.

I know I know everything there is to know.

There's something that happens that happened to me, and I think happened to most uh Ozark Christian College students about sophomore year.

You get to this point that you're like, man, I feel like I am a Bible scholar.

I know everything there is to know, and there's the danger of if you're devoted to scripture and in it and you are learning that you get to a point that it's just like, man, I I feel like I've got it figured out, you know, like at what what would you say that is like how is study of scripture?

I'm gonna go to you, Gwen, first, what would you say is has has been something that's helped you stay rooted and grounded in I need to keep keep growing in this, and here's how here's how this plays out for me.

I'm actually gonna back up a little bit just because I work with kids, and so uh to know the process of learning to read, like this is where my brain goes as an educator.

When you open up the Bible for the first time, it can be a little scary because there's a lot of vocabulary words in there that we don't use in our everyday life.

So don't be scared to look those words up.

I read the Bible and I grab my phone and I'll look up a word, and okay, I've never heard that before.

What in the world is that word?

So vocabulary is something that is scary about reading the Bible.

Um, also, there are a lot of words that we can't pronounce because phonetics and we learn English and their origins are Greek, Latin, whatever.

Um, so don't be scared of those as well.

I just want to encourage you um, if you're opening up that Bible, the places and the all of it's gonna be new um to reading.

So that's okay.

Bring some resources along.

And I'm the blue letter Bible, is that the website that I'm thinking of?

Okay.

I thought I had it in my head, but then I was worried I was saying it wrong.

So um, that's a great one to go in and it'll help you look up words and um you can find out the region that that was in.

And so kind of pulling in some of those tools if you're opening up scripture for the first time is gonna be very, very helpful.

That's what we try to do for the kids here, um, to kind of give them those foundation pieces because we want them by the time they're out of fifth grade to be able to open up that Bible and it not be scary to read.

So I kind of wanted to back up and give some of those little pieces.

For sure.

And I think, yeah, even an adult sitting in a Sunday morning service might, you know, have their Bible with them, and then we say turn somewhere, and they're like, I don't want to be the only one looking at the table of contents at the beginning, you know, or or I don't, yeah, I don't understand those those five words in that one verse right now.

I don't understand.

Um, and I don't know how to pronounce that name, and I don't know what city they're you're talking about right now, or whatever.

So that's really good reminders just to, yeah, you can be a a student in the in that basic sense of yeah, I don't I don't have to come and assume I know everything about what what this is saying.

I can dive, I can dive deeper into it.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I've been reading my Bible for a whole lot of years.

I'm not super young, and I still all the time look things up.

Yeah.

And I'm learning all the time.

So don't be overwhelmed.

Yeah.

That's good.

What'd you say, Stacy?

What what what are um yeah, different different ways that you've engaged in scripture that have that have uh just continue to help help grow?

I think embracing that each day, each season, each month uh looks a little bit different.

And so it might be uh creating a routine where you're really studying something or you're studying what the church is doing.

Well, look I'm gonna backup.

I always think partner with whatever wherever the church is, where if we're if your sermon series or where your kids are, use that.

So that's a that's just gonna lay that, right?

That's the best place to be growing because when you're hearing something more than once and it helps connect thought dots.

Yeah.

If you're just doing something completely rogue and then the church is doing something, I think sometimes that's hard to like really be growing in your scripture knowledge.

So my encouragement is wherever the churches be, let that kind of help guide your study time.

But I would also say just giving yourself some grace.

There are times where it's heavy study, read, I'm gonna take on this plan, or I'm gonna read through this.

But I really think, and I try to tell any young mom this, there are times where just meditating on one verse, meditating on one psalm, and let that be your focus for a whole week.

Just just ruminate on that those few words that I think that has become life-giving for me.

And it never fails when I practice those patterns where I'm like, I'm not studying as much as I did last week or something, but I'm focusing on this one verse.

Um, I'm able to like someone will talk to me and I'm able to just pass on that verse because I've just meditated on it so much.

And I um I'm like, I don't know if this encourages you, but this is what I've been thinking about.

So I think sometimes it's patterns of deep study, sometimes it's a pattern of a reading plan where you're just kind of reading, and like Miss Gwynn says, you don't really quite get it, but you're just gonna keep reading, you're gonna keep reading, keep going.

But then I think there's times where I think there's just like one passage you're just really meditating on and let it write it, put it on your refrigerator, put it on your mirror, just keep meditating on those words over and over.

Sure, sure.

Dave?

Yeah, I I mean I would say something that maybe people don't feel like they're allowed to say is not all scripture is equally easy to understand, and not all scripture is equally exciting, and that's okay, and you don't need to be afraid of that.

And odds are if we don't understand it or it seems really irrelevant, it's because we don't understand how it fits in the broader story.

So it's okay to not be super pumped about, oh, we're in Ezekiel in our Bible in a year plan.

No, no, that's where I'm reading right now.

It's kind of tough.

Yes, it is, and it helps when you know where where in this big story are we at and why is this important.

Um, so and there's so many tools, like there's tools and strategies and tips and whatever to make that easier.

I'll just say that as far as how it helps with growth is when you're reading scripture, it's the surest way to know about God's character.

This is what He He has made sure got passed down to us, and so reading through it helps me understand his character.

I think, I think you started with that pretty early.

And then when you understand that in the word, it makes it really under easy, much easier to understand that in prayer as well.

And sort of discern, is this my voice?

Is this my advice?

Is this my mom's voice in the back of my head?

Is this, you know, is this Satan's lies, or is this the voice of the Lord?

And when you've spent enough time in scripture and like, yeah, that's a selfish thought.

God's nature is not selfish.

That's a that's a thought based in fear.

That's not that's not a that's not how God works.

And so just understanding his character helps make your prayer life richer too.

They're they're definitely like self-reciprocating in that way.

So yeah.

That's good.

And while the while scripture can can reveal things about you and can reveal things to you, it is not chiefly about you.

You know, it is it is much more revealing about who he is rather than it is revealing about who you are necessarily.

You know what I'm saying?

So it's like so it's always reading with that filter of God, I'm just trying to discover more of who you are, not necessarily, yeah, like trying to discover more of who I am.

That it can definitely be a byproduct of studying scripture, is knowing for sure who what my identity is in you because of because of who you are and who you've made me to be, but um, but ultimately just getting more of God, of that what we've talked about, that inexhaustible nature of him.

So, okay, so think hypothetical here.

Somebody's been following the Lord for a while, and they're they would say, like, they would say, Yeah, I'm doing that.

I'm praying, I'm reading my Bible.

I don't know if it's making any difference.

You know, I don't know if I like how how do I know if I'm really growing here?

Like, how do I know?

Um, like I think I understand my need for it, but I don't know understand if it's actually working, you know, like the the you know, your your typical things that you would hear in church to do.

I don't know if those are actually doing the job enough.

What would you say to somebody who's stuck there?

Like, I don't know what this, I don't know what signs to look for, I don't know um like how to tell.

Stacey, what would you say?

Like what kind of encouragement would you give to somebody there who's who's saying, I don't I just don't know.

I don't know if I'm growing.

Well, um, I think I would say, I'm gonna go back to what I said earlier about creating moments of reflection.

I think we have to stop.

If if we don't know, then we're we need to stop and do a little inventory and a little reflection.

I think would be one thing.

I think that um that we can if we're not repenting and we're not taking a moment to identify, oh, that was sin, then I think we probably that's an that's an that's an opportunity to be like I I need to be growing.

I'm not really identifying sin outside of communion time on Sunday morning, then I think, okay, that's an opportunity for growth.

Like that's a place to grow.

And I think it is hard to know.

I think it's a really good question that you're asking, Austin.

And I've been kind of thinking about it a lot, and I don't know if I have the best answer, but I think how do we know?

And I think I love to garden, I brought a cucumber today, and I love to work with my plants.

And I I don't God made the ability to make cucumbers, you know, like I I don't know how to make a cucumber, but all I can do is create space and create the environment for that cucumber to grow.

And um I it it blows my mind when I'm like, I don't even know if I'm gonna get any cucumbers this year.

And you'll come out the next morning and it's like there's this whole thing growing right there.

And you're like, did that happen literally overnight?

And so it to it's like, wow, I get to reflect on that.

I get to look at that.

And so I think that's what we're supposed to do as Christians.

I think I can we can look in Psalms.

I think we're supposed to stop and reflect and take a moment.

And am I looking at my sin?

Am I um creating space for God to work in my life?

So I know it's a great question.

How how do I know if I am?

And I think um obviously we can look at is there fruit?

But I think fruit can sometimes come from a different place.

So, you know, it says, Are we hungry and thirst for righteousness for his name's sake?

So, so was just for me, I think reflecting and and identifying is sin more than just like one time a week.

Then am I I'm in the pattern of being like, yeah, that that wasn't that didn't look like Jesus right there.

So yeah, I think um self-reflection also goes alongside with what Dave said earlier, a spiritual mentor, those two or three people that you can really be vulnerable with, and you can ask them, like, where in my life have you seen that I am not like Christ?

And they can be honest with you and let you know.

Yeah, we do it all the time.

Yeah, we do.

This is a way that you can grow.

Like in love, we do that with each other.

So I think that's a huge part of knowing, you know, this is an area I can grow in.

Sure, sure.

What did you say, Dave?

Yeah, I so I think it was in the book Gentle and Lowly where he uh had a little drive-by shooting of a phrase where he said, we're always on the best terms with ourselves.

Yeah, and that's so true.

We always think we have the best motives and we always interpret our actions through the best lens.

Or justify ourselves.

Yeah.

Well, I know my heart in that situation.

That's less true.

The older I get, the less true that is.

I I don't always have the best motives, and I don't always know I don't have the best motives, but your friends might and your spouse might, and they can help you with love, not not a as a brick.

They can lovingly say, that was that's an old David thing.

You don't uh you don't do that anymore.

That's not Christ-likeness.

That's that's not who you are and who you say you want to be.

And you re we really need other people to help us most of the time to spot that stuff.

Um and signs you're growing, I mean, it's oversimplifying it, but Christ-likeness.

Yeah, and uh understanding what that means is really important.

And if you don't know what that means, then man, spend as much time as you need in the gospels, watching how he interacted with people, what upset him?

Um, what did he talk about?

What did he think about?

What did he pray about?

How did he treat others?

Um, and are we looking more and more like that?

And again, that's another thing.

We've never arrived.

I don't think any of us can say, I look totally like Jesus today.

Yeah, there's no way.

So uh the more we look like Christ, that's a good sign that you're going.

And I'd say maybe one more thing about that is I think we've all had dry seasons in our life that may even be multiple years where growth is not evident to ourselves or to others.

And on the one hand, I think that is comforting that it is normal, like you're not alone.

And on the other hand, don't be okay with that either.

So seek growth if you know, man, I've been stuck and it's been five years.

That's not abnormal, but don't be okay with it either.

And just find, you know, there's ways to grow and there's people who want to help you grow, and of course the Lord wants to see you grow.

So just uh don't be don't settle there and say, well, it's just a season for however long it lasts.

Yeah.

I asked my husband that this question last night.

I was like, because I was just thinking on the question, and he said, I try to he's like, and every response I have, I try to think, does that look like Jesus?

Every single response I have in every moment.

He's like, I try to just be in the in the pattern of did I respond impatiently?

Did I respond where I'm just so easily frustrated with people?

And so I thought that was a really practical way to be like, what are my initial responses and what where do I need to grow?

So I thought that was good.

Yeah, it's really good.

I have young adult children, and Dave's saying, look at what Jesus gets upset about.

We get upset about a lot of things, and that is a conversation we've been having at my house.

Is that something that would upset Jesus?

Like those are the things we really need to be focused in on.

So I love that you brought that up.

That's really good.

Yeah.

Okay, so wanna want to kind of shift and kind of maybe bring things to a close here.

If like we and we've already mentioned it a little bit, but right, it's in 1 Corinthians that that Paul says, you know, I planted, Apollos watered, it was the Lord who gave the growth, right?

Um, so we know that this is ultimately, we know we need to grow.

We understand we need to grow.

We also understand that it's the Lord that that brings it ultimately, that it's his his spirit working in us that that cultivates this in us.

So what I maybe maybe shifting a little bit, maybe not exactly what I've sent, what I've what I've sent to you guys, but what kind of man, what kind of impact would this have on on this community of believers if we really came to this like corporate understanding that we all need to grow, like what kind of a church would that look like?

Like let's not even let's I I want to even almost remove Cardeville Christian Church from your mind and just say, in the ideal, ideal sense, a church that realizes its need for growth looks like blank.

How would what would you say a church that real that fully realizes it and embodies it looks like on a day-to-day, week to week?

What would you say?

What first what comes to your mind, Dave?

I could see something and there's something.

But when Jesus said um he's talking about what the gospel is, he said the kingdom of God is at hand, which is so all-encompassing.

And so the church is made up of individuals who make up smaller groups who make up our church.

And so if every individual realized I am perfectly safe and secure, my best interest is not the most important thing.

Um I want to selflessly give towards others time, treasure, attention, life-giving words.

If every individual did that, that means every smaller group of people would do that, which means our whole church would do that.

And needs in the community would be met, uh, families would be transformed for generations.

Um gosh, it's just so all-encompassing.

But you know, if our church became a thousand people full of the Holy Spirit bringing light into their workplaces, uh infectiously so, because it's so appealing when somebody really is living by the Spirit, it's so attractive and appealing.

Um I mean, uh disciples would start to bust out everything.

everywhere and it would be yeah it'd be completely transformative.

It's such a hard question to answer.

Yeah.

That's what I was thinking need the first thing I thought of was well we would meet needs with within what the body, within outside the body we we would be meeting one another's needs.

We would be living what Acts two was telling us to do.

And so that was the first thing I thought of and I I like what you said but it's like the well the kingdom would be the kingdom mindset would be exploding in this area if we were all committed to that growth just wanting to be disciples that are growing.

And so um yeah it's a it's a really good question.

Yeah I thought of the Acts two church and what did they receive?

The Holy Spirit.

I mean ultimately that's what's comforting when it's such a big question is that he is the one doing the work and I just have the privilege of coming alongside him.

Yeah.

So I'm praying for that discernment of okay where do you need me?

And then that again like when you're talking to someone like you said, what do they need to hear?

Because God is the one that's going to give that to you in that moment.

So that's what's really comforting to me.

It's not all on my shoulders.

He's got it all planned out and I just need to step into my spot at that particular moment.

Yeah.

I think humility would explode in the area if we were all committed to that because I think when we're when we are growing um when we we have the the less mindset that I don't need to be the most important person in a space my children don't need to be the most important uh people in the classroom or on the teams or um if we all began to embrace like oh this is going really hard for my kid instead of thinking like oh they're being persecuted instead thinking of it oh this is just an opportunity for the gospel to go out broader this is an opportunity for the gospel to be experienced by those teammates as you go through something hard I I think we couldn't transform how people see the church if we if we adopted what you're asking us if we all were committed to that same that same mindset.

So yeah I don't know how else to how else to put a bow on it this is the kind of church we want to be is a church that's that's just devoted um devoted to the Lord so much so that it just is infectious in every part of our lives right so like yeah of course I want to be in conversation with him and of course I want to learn more about his character and of course I want to meet the needs of those around me and of course I want to be an encouragement to those who are discouraged and of course I want to tell the most important news that anybody could ever hear and live as if it is the most important news in my life too man what an opportunity we have as a church to to be that that kind of place.

And man our our community needs it our world needs it desperately.

I think that might be one last indicator of growth is you're becoming a type of person.

I'm the type of person who lives out of self-giving love.

It's not a thing I have to conjure up and I have to pull out a list of like what am I supposed to do?

How am I supposed to treat people?

You're becoming the kind of person I mean Jesus said that out of the overflow of the heart the mouse speaks and that you bring out your treasures.

So growth is becoming a type of person where this becomes natural and easier and more just I mean can't help but think of Miss Joyce.

She's a type of person.

You can't not make Miss Joyce Miss Joyce.

Yeah I you know that's what I want to be like is I'm the type of person where Jesus is just it's obvious.

The Holy Spirit is spilling out of you everywhere you go.

Yeah and that's that's growth.

The person in front of you is more important than yourself every single minute of your life the person in front of you is an opportunity to experience the gospel of Jesus in every single minute.

I mean that's just my lifelong commitment and you know it it's transformative I think when we when we commit to say man I dropped the ball here I had my phone up or I was more concerned about my kids playing time or I was more concerned about instead of the person next to me is the opportunity to experience the love and grace of Jesus.

So yeah it's it's super convicting and I just want our listeners to know that like I'm in it with them.

Like I just want to be committed to creating space to act and speak and and try to look like Jesus and admit that I I fail.

And so um I I want to do it with them.

So yeah yeah yeah may it be true of us may it be true of us and man when I hope this has been an encouraging discussion for you to listen in on but man like I said at the beginning this is not the end all be all discussion of what it looks like to grow in the Lord and man part of part of our heart as as a church is we want to walk alongside of you in this in this journey that you're on with with the Lord and that your family is on with the Lord as you as you're discipling young ones in your home maybe too and so man please keep the conversation going with us we'd love to talk with you if we can be of any encouragement thanks so much for listening.

Thanks guys for being a part of this discussion as well and um man can't wait to see what the Lord does as we just continue to to realize our our need for him and and our need to continue growing in him so thanks so much for for listening in we we hope to see you next time on the C3 Podcast