We Need To Gather | New C3 Core Values

Well, welcome to the C3 Podcast.

My name is Austin Weiss, and joining me on today's podcast are some of C3's finest.

We've got right over here to my left, we've got Jordan Woodring, one of our youth ministers.

Hello.

I've got across from me one of our elders, Mark Hand.

Hey everyone.

And then I have our other youth minister as well, Danny Foster, with us.

Hello as well.

And very super excited just to uh have each of you joining me on this conversation today as we dive into our core values that kind of go along with this summer series we've been doing for the last several weeks, uh, called uh vital signs, um, five signs that you're fully alive in Christ.

And um we we at C3 believe the words of Jesus when he says that he has come to give us life and life to the full.

The question that we're kind of talking about is what does this full life look like?

What is he actually offering us?

What does it look like to live a full life in him?

And so that leads into these new core value statements we have as a church.

And our goal is for these statements not just to be true for us as a church, but also for us as individuals.

So not just like communal or collective truths, but also individual truths for us as well.

So today we're talking about our need to gather, and not just as a church as a whole, but also individually, not just we need to gather, but I need to gather.

So I want to talk, start by saying, um, or start by talking about this conversation of what does this look like for you personally?

So, Jordan, I'm gonna come to you first.

Um, what does this what does it look like this need to gather?

What does it look like for you to gather right now, or what does it look like through the years?

Like what is what does this this um this habit look like for you?

Well, I think of several things.

So if I'm thinking of throughout the years, I was a part of a small group in high school and a youth group in high school that was very beneficial for me, um, as well as just a family, I guess.

I have a large family, so um I think I've been used to gathering, I guess, for a while.

Um when I started here at the church, uh I would say my primary um way of gathering was obviously Sunday mornings, but then Wednesday nights, um I consider and still consider uh the volunteers that serve with us, you know, they're some of my closest friends.

So um, and then obviously now I've been a part of a life group for a few years, I don't know how many years.

Um and that has been incredibly beneficial for me.

So I think there's several, and then obviously like um I have mentors in my life that I meet with regularly, and um actually going back to school provided me with a lot of um community um places to gather.

So I think there's several different avenues that I found it, but um yeah, it's yeah, yeah.

Important.

Yeah, yeah.

Danny, what would you say?

What's what's um what does it look like for you right now?

What how has it been beneficial for you?

Um it's there's there's probably three different ways that me and my wife gather right now.

Like one of the ways is like on church on Sunday mornings.

Um for service, we're gathering with students and teaching them, and then we go to service, and it's not so much we're pouring into people, but it's it's we're we're we're the ones learning and taking from that, which is beneficial.

Um, and then yeah, on Wednesday nights, it's the same thing.

We're gathering with both students who are pouring into but and sponsors, but also, you know, we're we're getting things from them too, and the sponsors too, kind of like Jordan said.

Those are a lot of our friends.

Um but then I also think it's really important to like me and Kayla have been in a life, a short-term group of like young adults, um, and we like to do things like that because I think it's important too to um be in a gathering space with not just people that you're getting like not people pouring into you and you pouring into others, but that you're kind of equal with and sharing together in that way.

So that's been really helpful too.

Sure.

Mark, what about you?

What does this look like for you?

Uh goodness.

I feel like I've been a part of the Sunday morning gathering since I was probably a a week old.

Yeah.

I was born on like Father's Day, and I bet my parents had me in church that next week as a part of the gathering.

Um, you know, so Sunday mornings has always been a big, big part of that.

Um we've hosted a life group in our house until this last year for about 25 years.

Wow.

Um so as long as we've been at Carterville, we've pretty much had some some group in our home on a weekly basis.

And then I've got a group of guys that we're crazy enough that we want to get up at six o'clock, well, really at five o'clock in the morning and show up at a coffee shop at about six.

Um, probably 10 or 12 guys that we we meet together on a weekly basis.

So that's kind of what gathering looks like for for me at this time.

Yeah, yeah.

What comes to your mind when you guys think about this need to get like what what immediately pops in your mind, like first thoughts when you when you hear us say, Yeah, here at C3, we we think we believe we need to gather.

What immediately pops in your mind, Danny, as you think through that, like it just first thoughts, what comes in?

Like, and how do we do this as a church baby?

Well, my first thoughts whenever we talk about this always is I feel like when I was in high school, I got to see how valuable um it was to gather because I remember being a junior and senior, and like you couldn't really gather because of the pandemic and everything.

And so then like you're alone all the time, and then I remember youth group and our small group, whenever we were able to do those things, it became so much more valuable.

Yeah.

Um, and I start you know, from that you start to see, well, being alone for a long time is not that good for it's so it's so nice to be around other people and to to learn from them and to there's just experience like there's so many good things about being in a community with people and gathering regularly that um that we'll probably talk about in a little bit, but that are so valuable just doing it in the first place.

Sure, sure.

Mark, what do you think?

What immediately comes to your mind when we talk about this need?

I'll probably think about uh worship being one of those, that uh there's something about worshiping with a group of believers uh that's just something special.

I think about teaching, whether that's in a large group gathering or whether it's in a small group gathering, I think that's an important part of it as well that that uh that comes to mind.

And then probably similar to what Danny's talking about, like I think there's like purposeful and meaningful friendships that get formed that um that you don't just you don't get if you're not a part of of gathering together.

That that that's those are the things that probably come to my mind the most.

Yeah, I would say um I immediately thought of just college students and high school students that I've been able to be a part of their lives, and I I mean ev them is who I hear from most, but even people my age and older, it's like there is a loneliness epidemic, and um I think we definitely saw that over COVID.

Um, but I don't know, I think the older that I get, the more I realize, or I'm just being more honest about because I'm an introvert, I love being by myself, but I I want, I crave a connection.

Um and I even think of like Alcoholics Anonymous, like the opposite of this unhealthy addiction to alcohol is not the absence of the addiction, which it is that, but it's also it's connection is what we need.

Um and obviously we believe connection with with God but also with each other.

And so I think um I have an innate desire to be known and to have other people know the real me, and then vice versa.

Um I want to know other people, you know, and I think God placed that within us.

And um again, obviously it's because we ultimately want to be known by our creator and um want to know him.

Um but that is just who we are, like that's just in us, and so um whether we realize it or we're being vulnerable enough to admit it or whatever, it's like yeah, we all need connection, like majorly, and sometimes that can be lacking.

It's better in some ways than I think it used to be, maybe, but um, but then with you know, different things going on in the world, it's it's harder in different ways too.

So and this is something, right, that's not new that we were created, you know, to be in community too, you know, and this is something that's that we see all throughout scripture.

What Mark, what comes to your mind?

Are there specific examples in scripture that come to your mind when you think of uh when you think of gathering or the importance of gathering?

Um we're talking about vital signs if this is vital for a for a full life in Christ.

Like how what scripture do we point to?

Because I think all of these different core values are founded in scripture, um, like in birth from scripture.

So, like, where where do we get this, like this importance of of gathering in large and small groups?

What is it, what does it look like in scripture?

Yeah, I think I mean I think there's several scriptures that would point to to this gathering.

Um as as I was thinking about it before the podcast, I was thinking about Hebrews.

And uh in Hebrews 10 when it says, and let us consider how to stir up one another to to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

And some of the things we've talked about, like the reasons why we meet, um, are just kind of summed up in that scripture really well of like, um, yeah, you know, as you were talking about, like you're you're an introvert.

Um, in our family, I'm the extrovert.

Nikki, my wife, is the introvert.

And so our approach to church is just totally different.

Like, I'm the one who's gonna want to just hang out for longer.

And she's like, Are we ready to go home?

Are we ready to get out of here?

Like, I've kind of I've kind of got my feel, but like to me, that idea of being together, allowing us to encourage one another, um, is so important.

And I think that's pointed out in in Hebrews really well.

Yeah, yeah.

How about you, Jordan?

What comes to mind?

Yeah, I actually thought of Hebrews 10 as well.

We talked about that at camp a lot, and the word consider just stuck out to me.

Um, I feel like God laid that heavy on my heart last week of just like yeah, we can't we can contemplate and consider how what what does it look like for me to spur other people on?

What does it look like for me to um stir one another up towards good deeds?

Like I have to be in community to be able to do that.

Um but when I think of just overarchingly, I mean God designed the church as a a community, you know?

And so it is again just in his design that we are created for um to work together.

And the better that we do that, it's like, yeah, you can't say to the hand, I don't need you, you know, scripture.

Um so if that is true, then um yeah, there's not anybody uh belonging to the kingdom that I don't need that I can't learn from.

And I think just being in youth ministry over the years, it's like when you think of the early church, you know, having everything in common, uh, we I know we've talked a lot about this, but it's like uh uh we don't have the surface level things in common with everybody.

Um, but we do have the best thing in common and the most unifying thing in common, and that is God and our our relationship to him and with him.

And so if that is true, then the more that we gather and the more that we love each other and are unified, then the more that we represent him well, and um the more that we yeah, have humility because we you know, we we're not we are not God alone, but when we work together, we glorify him better.

I don't know.

I feel like there's several I feel it's like it's all over scripture, yeah.

You know, yeah, yeah, for sure.

What do you see, Danny?

Well, I mean, one of the things I always thought about is how when Jesus came, he's the not that he needed to, but he didn't do life alone.

Like there's times where he did go off by himself and pray and he needed a second or something like that.

But for the majority of the time, like it's not because he needed them, but I think it's because he was modeling and like this kind of the way it should be is that he was always surrounded by people or pouring into people.

You know, he had his twelve disciples that were with him all the time.

Um and so that just always stood out to me that when God came down, he didn't spend all his time alone.

Yeah, he was all like surrounding himself with people.

Yeah, for sure.

And now when it I think when it comes to like when we're talking about this idea of of gathering, um I mean you can trace it all the way back to the to the garden.

It's not good for man to be alone, right?

There's that whole that whole uh part of it, but like that we're we're made to to be connected in in uh with like-minded people with and and there's benefit from being connected.

There's the um there's a couple different ways this plays out in our church, you know, right?

Like there's there's a large group gathering, which happens in a lot of different, a lot of different areas, right?

There's you know, obviously our Sunday morning worship stuff, but then there's also a Wednesday night gathering for youth that you guys could speak into.

There's there's Sunday morning large group gathering for our for our kids as well, and Wednesday night large group gathering for our kids as well.

And then there's different, I mean, there's different ways that we like it takes on different shapes throughout the year too.

I want to focus kind of in on that large group gathering, not you know, not a group of 12 like Jesus with his disciples, but you know, the group of group of a hundred, you know, or the group of a few hundred or whatever it might be.

What are the benefits of of us gathering together in a large group?

What would you say, Jordan?

What would you, what would, where would you, where's your mind immediately go?

Like what's what what is somebody missing out on if they're not there?

Um, why is it important for them to prioritize it?

I don't know.

I'm just thinking through.

I'll let Danny um and maybe you're not gonna talk about this, but we've just had some good experiences at camp the last couple weeks of um of especially the boys having great conversations and they were different ages, um, and how beneficial that was to be outside of their small group and to learn from other people.

So I just said I would let Danny do it, and then I just told all of it.

Um you can elaborate if you want.

But anyway, uh I think intergenerational, especially coming from the youth ministry world, intergenerational worship is beautiful.

Yeah.

Um, and obviously that's what we're gonna get one day in finality, you know.

Um, and so us getting to bring heaven to earth every single week by communal worship is you know, and knowing that it's not even just C3, but the church is doing that, there is there's something heavenly about that, you know.

We know that we will do that one day, um all together, and we will see God face to face when we get to do that, which is pretty incredible.

Um and I think the more that we contemplate that together, like the healthier that is for us, you know, where it's like, man, um to be completely known to the point that I just don't want to stop worshiping is something that I get to look forward to.

And doing that on a Sunday morning reminds me of that, you know, and I need reminded of um that.

But then I just think, yeah, like and I need encouragement because there are weeks where I don't want to be doing that.

Um and the person next to me is in a season where they do want to do that.

I need to see that, you know.

Um uh I don't know, I think there's a lot of ways, but yeah, I can stop there.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think I I would echo the encouragement idea.

Like, you know, I I work for CIY as well, so get to go to some of these camps you're talking about and just see, you know, sometimes 1,500, 2,000 um students as well as their adult leaders uh worshiping, you know, learning from the same teaching in in a whole different context.

And it is really interesting the way they respond to that, which looks a little different than what they look like when they're at their home church.

Yeah.

But both have such great worth and value to them.

And I think I agree with you.

It's like it's so great when when when I see some people that have been in our church for I I mean goodness, it has to be like 60, 70 years.

Yeah.

And they're in there worshiping with an eight-year-old.

I mean, how beautiful is that?

How encouraging is that?

And also just the idea that there's more people around me.

You know what I mean?

Like even as we're talking here, I think about like all the different perspectives.

I'm hearing Jordan say some things that don't really come to my mind exactly, but they're so true.

They're right.

And so I think when we have that large group gathering, we're just all we're we're hearing the same words which are coming from God's word.

We're all processing them in the way that God has uniquely built us, uh, just like it talks about in Corinthians, like there's all these parts of the body, right?

So we we all kind of do different things and think different ways just the way he's wired us.

Um, I think that large group gathering allows us to take in the same information, but do some even different and good things with that and bring that to the table.

Yeah.

So that's when I think about the large group gathering, it's such a great place for that to take place.

Yeah, for sure.

I remember for me and my brother's 16th birthday, my dad took us all to our favorite NFL teams stadium to watch a game.

And my favorite team is the Houston Texans.

And around here and where I'm from, that's like really rare to see that.

And one of the one of the things that stood out to me most going to that game was like getting there and pulling up to the stadium and walking in and being like, oh my gosh, this is the most like Houston Texans fans I've ever seen in my life.

Like, I didn't even know this existed.

This is the most crazy thing.

And I remember leaving that game feeling much more confident in my fandom than when I got there and being much more encouraged about it because it I wasn't alone, you know.

Um and I feel like that's a little bit of the same with coming here every Sunday or every Wednesday or whatever it is.

Like you get to come here and you just it gets to affect your heart and your soul seeing all these other people um worshiping God, taking in the same things.

Um, and it gets to fill you back up before you go back out into the world and you do ministry on your own when in your job or in your home.

It's it's it it's a nice encouragement and a reset or whatever you want to say it.

Yeah.

Yeah, and when somebody's not here, right?

It's you guys all speak into this, right?

When somebody's not here, what are they missing out on?

They're missing out on yeah, the encouragement when somebody's able to lift their hands in worship and I'm not I'm not feeling it right now, right?

When whenever a passage is is read out loud over me, and it's like you know, those those words bring life to my soul right now.

Or yeah, whenever we collectively stand in prayer or we go to the tables together and remember the Lord's sacrifice together, it's like yeah, it's just this this encouragement, and it's what we're talking about, like the life to the full, right?

This is part of that life that is missing if you're not here.

But I think there's a of the other the flip side of the coin too is I think the church is missing something as well if you're not here.

Like the large group misses you if you're not here.

What are the ways, what would you say, Danny, are like ways that the the large group misses the individual if they're not if they're not here.

Does that make sense?

Did that question make sense?

I mean, one of the things that we just talked about at camp these last two weeks, the big emphasis for everybody was how different God has created everyone and all the every person has a different ability that they've been gifted with, different passions, a different story that can all be used to to benefit someone else.

And even going back to like the intergenerational like things of how valuable that is, like someone's life story, someone's gifts, someone's abilities you're gonna miss being you might be missing helping pour into someone else in that regard if you're not here.

Um yeah, because it's not all the time like coming to church and thinking, what am I gonna get out of this?

But when you're not here, you're missing out on pouring into somebody else.

Yeah.

For sure.

For sure.

What'd you guys say?

I I thought.

Like I think it's really tough to be unified with people when you're uh away from them, when you're not spending time with them, when you're not uh you know, you know, worshiping together.

It just feels like you you know there's a disconnect there.

I mean, it's kind of like uh if you have an argument with a family member, if you've ever had an argument with a family member and then you know you're gonna leave and you're not gonna see them for like months.

And the only way maybe you can do that is through a phone call or something like that, right?

It's so different than being face to face with somebody.

Um and I think that's that's a part of it is like it's even healing, I think, for people to be in a in a room together, worshiping God together.

It kind of melts away some of the things that probably separate us, some of the probably non-essential, unimportant things that that sometimes we fight over when we're all just together in a big room worshiping God together and and hearing his word together.

Um I think that's that's just such a big part of what you miss out on and what we miss out on as a church is that unity that happens.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I think hearing you guys talk uh it the word that comes to mind is refining, like I think it just refines us a little bit, you know, and just pulls out where it's like I can if I'm in a large group and crowds bother me or that opinion bothered me or whatever, I have to come to grips with like, all right, I've got some pride in my heart then that I need to lay down, or I've got some fear, you know, and the scripture clearly has things to say about those emotions that I'm feeling.

And here's an opportunity in a very safe, hopefully safe place to lay those things down.

Um so yeah, like it, you know, we we refine each other in as we gather too, and we miss out on that if we're not there.

And like Danny said, we miss out on meeting people's needs, you know, and getting our needs met um when we neglect gathering.

Yeah.

Yeah, and there's just yeah, there's something something incredible about the people of God surrounding and and being and remind being reminded, but also reminding each other of the whole purpose of of our lives to to glorify God, you know, in this.

And there's a danger here.

We've you know been doing some actually like some staff brainstorms with this too.

And there's a danger that we we do the gather thing, but without without our like every every other core value is kind of stemmed from this first one, the we need Jesus.

And if we're gathering just for the sake of gathering, then uh we might as well just be a country club, you know, like this, like this is like there's nothing special about what about what we're doing.

We might as well just be going and watch the Houston Texans, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, right, right, right.

Seriously.

I was waiting for comments.

Come on, Missouri people.

But if we're gathering, it's it's gathering to then remind ourselves to of the ultimate reality of who God is and what he has designed us to do and what he is calling us to.

Um, and that's what makes this a special thing, and what's the importance of then then it's like, yeah, we can mutually we've we've all come to this understanding, we're in need of grace, right?

And God has met us with his grace, praise the Lord.

Let's lift our voices and worship to him.

But then also, man, God has like given us his spirit to be able to go out into this world, you know.

Let's let's go out, let's go, you know, storm the gate, storm the gates of hell with this with this good news that he's given us.

So there's that importance of, yeah, there's that large group thing.

There's a the second side of it, I think, too, of like we need to gather is not just it can be easy uh sometimes in especially in church these days to walk into the large group and then just walk out and not really be known by anybody, you know, like it's kind of it can be tempting just to walk in the doors, walk out, and check off your church thing, you know, and say, Well, I gathered this week, so I'm good to go.

Um, but there's also importance, I know you guys all see the importance of gathering um in small groups together.

So I'm gonna focus on that just a little bit.

What differentiates?

Like what's what's what's somebody gonna find?

So let's say somebody's been coming to this church for a year, you know, but they haven't ever jumped into a small group.

What are they gonna find in a small group that's not present in a in a large group?

Mark, what I'm gonna start with you.

Like, is there are there aspects of the small group gathering that are not there in the large group gathering?

Maybe it's maybe they totally could be there in the large group gathering or or vice versa.

Um, but what what's what's present in a small group that's not present in a large group?

Yeah, I think I think part of it depends on how big your church is.

You know what I mean?

Like if you're talking about a church of 50, great church, it's a little harder to get lost in that in that crowd.

But um, you know, on a Sunday morning at C3, you know, you've got hundreds there, uh sometimes up over a thousand.

And I mean it's so easy to just uh like you were talking about, just blend in.

Yeah.

It's easy to get in and out without anybody actually interacting with you, asking how things are are going.

Like that's just super simple to check it off your list of things to do.

So I think there's just there, there's not an aspect of you can just blend into a crowd and get in and out.

Um, and I think with that comes just a different level of closeness and friendship.

Um, I would even say you were talking about Jesus earlier, you know, being with his disciples, but there was also a, you know, we always think about the 12, but there was also a larger group.

So even Jesus had a larger group that he met with, that he spent time with, but then there was a closer group, and then there was even a closer group within that closer group, right?

So it's like I think there there are levels to our relationship um that we that Jesus needed it.

Jesus knew we needed it.

And uh and I think that's the case uh for our church as well.

We we have to have those kinds of levels of closeness with people in order for us to uh to to really um find a closeness to God as well, if that makes sense.

It's like it it helps you you said refinement, and I think that's a great word for it.

It's like, you know, these 10 or 12 guys that I meet with every week, it's a whole different level, right?

We talk about things sometimes that uh I would never talk about in a large group gathering because people would hear it out of context and it'd be okay, we gotta stop this conversation, let's have this at the coffee house, right?

So that to me is a is a big part of the small group.

Yeah, yeah.

Jordan, what benefits have you seen that like difference between a small group and a large group?

What's what are the differences, but then what what's the benefit of a small group over a large group?

Or maybe not to say that small groups are better than large groups, but like what's what's the benefit of both um just speaking personally, I think the hardest things that I've gone through in life would have been exponentially harder without my life group, you know, and without my community here at church.

Like um there are times where I'm like, I don't know if I would have made made it out of that, you know, had I not um had people surrounding me.

So I think um just when we go through the difficulties of life, um like it is just pretty much irrepla irreplaceable to have, you know, close people that you can trust.

Um and then yeah, I think for me, just having and I think for all of us, but um just having a safe place to be yourself, you know, um, and to come with um your real so I guess authenticity um is just incredibly important, you know, um for I want to know that I can bring my authentic self and not that you're not going to provide wisdom and like you know, we want to get out of some of the things that we find ourselves in sometimes, but like um I don't know, just met without judgment or without uh fear of like I can't, I have to I have to keep this one back, you know, or I have to um or I I am alone, you know, and and sometimes those things are true, sometimes we just tell ourselves those things, but having um people around you that you can trust um yeah is so important.

And I would say um uh having been in spaces where I felt that and where I haven't felt that, um it's very uh important that we then become those people, you know, that are safe places for other people and um we ourselves are authentic, you know.

So it's like um all right, hopefully the people around me can also feel safe to um to share what they need to.

I don't know, that was kind of old, but I had an experience with this yesterday that that it's not the church gathering, but it really goes along the lines of this.

So yesterday was my birthday, and that's not just to call it out on the podcast I promise.

Happy birthday, happy birthday.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate that.

But but there was there was a large group on like social media that chimed in all day long.

I had like all these all these messages of like happy birthday, happy birthday, Mark, happy birthday, right?

And then I had a group of people that texted me, right?

That sent me a text and was just like, hey, happy birthday, man, you know, so so happy I know you, all this stuff, like hope you have a great day.

And then there was another level of people that called me on the phone and wanted to talk to me.

Like my brother called me up and we spent about an hour on the phone just talking, right?

So there was like this level of intimacy that that from like acquaintance, friendships, all the same, very much friendships, all the way to like known me my entire life, kind of person, right?

So I feel like that's a little bit like the same as like this large group gathering versus the the smaller group is it it's like it dials it into like these are your these are some of your very closest people.

When you said like these are the people that I I don't know how I'd have done it without them when when I'm going through a storm, and I think that's it's that same idea, right?

For sure.

That I experienced just yesterday.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The different levels of intimacy that it can that can you cannot get to at a large group level.

No, you know, no it's not gonna be able to you know to get to that level in a in a yeah.

Not everybody in the large group gatherers gonna gathering is gonna call me on my birthday, yeah, yeah.

Or wish me happy father's day.

Yeah, like that's just not gonna but there are people that do, yeah, right?

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Danny, what have you seen?

The the differences, differences between small groups.

I just think like with the smaller group, it's you get to get into the weeds more of what how God's calling you to live in your day-to-day lives.

And then also like what they've been saying, you get people that you're able to do life with.

Like they get to, you know, when exciting things happen in your life, you get to tell somebody when there's um bad things that happen, hard things that happen, you know, you get to be there for them, they get to be there for you.

Like whenever you're a tree gets blown over in your yard by a tornado, you got people who can be there with chainsaws and stuff to cut it up, all that different stuff.

You guys just get to do life together, and I think that's really important to not just go about doing it by yourself.

And I think that sometimes people my age sometimes have a harder time with that, like they don't try as much in in the beginning of making friends when they go to a new place, or it's harder, and I just think it's really important that you you find those people and be intentional about people that you can do life with and enjoy life with.

Sure.

You you kind of mentioned it and Jordan, you you mentioned as well.

Like, how how do you like in small groups when when you talk about like you're you're known, right?

And there's parts of me that I don't always want people to know.

And you you know, they're gonna dig into your life a little bit.

How how do you overcome that?

Like for a lot of people, that that seems like it's just a hard thing to overcome.

Is like when I get into that small group, yeah, my business is gonna be all out on the table, and people are gonna hear things about me that maybe they don't how how do we as believers like overcome that?

Because everybody around the table has done that.

Like, how did you guys overcome that fear of like being better known?

Yeah.

I mean, I think vulnerability is something is a choice, you know what I mean?

It's like I don't I don't know.

I think yeah making the choice to humble yourself enough to I'm gonna let myself be known here.

Um when there's a wall that wants to build itself up, you know, I can feel it.

Um, but like intentionally choosing, like, all right, I'm writing in my notes app now, this is what I'm sharing with my group of girls, you know, on Sunday.

And um even though I don't want to, you know.

And I think, yeah, it's j it I was actually thinking after I spoke, I'm like, this all sounds very idyllic, but like it's so hard to do this, you know.

And when I think of like my experience with my life group, um we get annoyed with each other, you know what I mean?

Like we see we see the best and the worst.

Um and we've spent long enough together, walked through enough things, that it's like, yeah, I know your tendencies and you know my tendencies.

Um, and so it's not ideal, um, but it's worth it, you know.

And then the other thing I would say is is uh if you haven't experienced hard times, good good, but that's coming, you know what I mean?

Um, and so like the opposite is so much worse of feeling the loneliness um or the lies of Satan that you are alone um when life is hard, those are some of the worst feelings that I've ever had in my life.

Some of the worst experiences that I've ever had in my life is being lied to about the the fact that I'm alone and actually f experiencing feeling alone, you know.

So it's like it's hard, but it's worth it, you know, and the the opposite I don't want.

You know, I've tried it, tasted it, it is horrible, you know?

Um so it's a little bit like, how's that working for you?

Yeah, you know what I mean?

Like when I try that out and see where it's kept it to myself and bottled it up and not shed light on things.

Yeah.

I mean, you just live with the you live with shame, you live with fear, you live with anxiety, my bones wasted away within me, right?

Oh yeah.

When I kept it, when I kept stuff in.

Yeah.

And I think there's healthy things to like having like boundaries is a big word that I hear with younger um people.

Um, and I think in some ways it's like, all right, we can learn from them and that in some of those ways.

Um, but having done it myself and also seen a lot of young people do it, it's like, okay, go ahead and put all those boundaries in place and see where that gets you.

You know, like it's you're not gonna have many friends if they can't make a mistake around you and you're gonna cut them out, like good luck with that, you know.

Um and again, I think that goes along with the loneliness epidemic.

It's like we have to realize that people aren't perfect, and um, you know, so it's not gonna look perfect, but again, we still need it, so we need to figure out how to do it well, you know.

I think sorry, sorry.

I feel like for someone new to a small group, if like if that's ever the case, I feel like vulnerability looks different because I don't think you should like spill your guts to these new people if it's like people you've never met before.

But I think the vulnerability is like being willing to open yourself up to growing a relationship with the people that maybe someday it does get to that point, if that makes sense.

Absolutely.

Like, yeah, like opening being vulnerable to the point where this is gonna be more than I just see you here and then never talk to you, and then I just see you here and never talk to you.

Like being open to growing deeper in relationships with people to maybe it gets to that point where someday you have someone you can trust enough to share things with or confess to.

Yeah, and I think about whenever I think about the times in my life when I've in a small group setting, group of maybe if it's just a group of guys that I trust and you know, you know, open myself to be accountable to any of the time that I'm hesitant to be vulnerable, like it comes down to an issue of pride in me for sure.

And I need to be reminded of the gospel more than anything else in those moments that I'm fully seen, fully known, and yet fully loved all at the same time by my God.

So yeah, I can be uh open and honest about what I'm struggling with, with this, not not, you know, before 700 people, you know, but before these five, you know, and they can know me intimately, um, and then extend that same grace that the Lord has already extended to me as well.

That's not able to happen in a large group thing.

So there's and when we're talking about being fully alive, like, hey, there's something here, there's a freedom here that you're not experiencing if you're not in a in a community of believers that could that could do this.

And I think it takes humility.

I mean, it kind of goes into our this next question.

Like, what would you say to somebody who says, like, I love I love Jesus?

I'm not too sure about this whole church thing, right?

I know how jacked up those people are.

And I walked in, the first people, first person I saw, I've had beef with them for 10 the last 10 years since high school or whatever.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, what would you say to somebody who says, like, I love Jesus, but I don't need the church?

Danny, what would you say to somebody like that?

Well, I feel like there's two side, like on one hand, we know that the church is called the bride of Christ, and so like if someone came up to me and said that, you know, I like you, but your wife kind of sucks, I would be like, Well, then I don't know if we can really be friends.

But and I feel like that's kind of the same.

But on the other side, too, there is like people who have been in church situations where it wasn't good and they have been hurt by that.

Um I just I just I just feel like you gotta make sure that you can't judge the the people trying to follow the instructions always by the person who made the instructions.

If that's that's kind of how I I've been told before.

Like you can't you can't if I were to bake a cake, you can't judge the you can't judge the person who made the cookbook based on my ability to make the cake always, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

And so that's that's what I would always say is that every church is gonna be not all churches are the same.

Not everyone's gonna be great, but not everyone is like terrible a terrible experience like you may have experienced before either.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What would you guys say?

I think of a couple things.

Um, I've always looked at first John is kind of our relationship with one another is probably put potentially a barometer of like what our relationship is with the Lord.

I mean, you know, it says if we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus, his son, cleanses us from all sin.

And so I think it's really interesting.

Fellowship with Jesus and fellowship with one another probably go hand in hand.

So if I'm having a problem with somebody, I I probably need to look at one of two people in this thing.

I and I probably need to look at myself first and determine what's going on with me that's creating this separation.

And I and I think um I think we have examples of people who survived without the church for a period of time in the New Testament.

They they were like exiled to an island.

Um, they were imprisoned for their belief and continue to write letters to the church.

Um they were they were baptized and went back to their home where nobody was a believer and they won people over and it became an Ethiopian church, right?

I mean, yeah, like we have examples of people, but that that is those are examples that I don't think anybody here in Joplin, Missouri, Cardioville, Missouri area are dealing with.

Nobody here is exiled, nobody here is imprisoned for their beliefs.

And so I think I think if I look at the New Testament and I look at Acts 2, I think one of us mentioned like, you know, that first church, these people like they would have probably considered impossible to be in relationship with the Lord, but not be in relationship with fellow believers.

It would almost felt like almost an impossibility.

Yeah.

Because even if you weren't at a church, you were trying to make disciples who would be following Jesus as well with you.

So I I think that's probably how I look at it is there's probably rare circumstances and probably nobody here is facing them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you're probably listening to this, streaming this on your smartphone right now.

Like talk about I mean, just the the you're able to be connected wherever, you know, if you if you want to be.

It's just a matter of if you're gonna like, yeah, put in the time and effort to to to be there for sure.

What would you say?

Jordan, about like to somebody who says, I love Jesus, I just don't know about his church.

We're not sure.

Um I might be answering a different question a little bit, but uh I l resonate deeply with the I want to live, I want to be alive, you know, I want to be fully alive.

And so um I think you mentioned humility, like sometimes the drawback is that, and I would say I swing on the pendulum of I'm just a fun person to be around, of hu of pride and insecurity, you know.

So sometimes it's more of like fear or um, you know, I don't want to be hurt, you know, and I have been, and um and they're it's like it's so real, it is so real.

Um and likewise it's like yeah, the pride thing is just so real.

And so, you know, depending on where I'm at on that pendulum, um if I choose to lay those things down, I'm the one who receives more freedom, you know, like I gain community, um, but I also gain freedom, you know, and I like that's what I want.

I want to live fully alive and fully free of the things that are weighing me down.

And and being in close community demands that you lay down certain things or you're not gonna have close community.

Yeah.

Um, and so I think people have to come to that conclusion where it's like, all right, if you don't have close community, yeah, look within.

I'm sorry, look within.

Um and as you do, lay those things down, and there's grace for that, you know.

Um, and there's only only goodness, only God's goodness from that.

Yeah.

I think, yeah, humility is such a core part of each of these, especially we're saying like these are I need statements, you know, like we're trying to I'm trying to put this on somebody else.

Hey, you need you need to gather.

I don't need that.

Why why would you say I need that?

You know, that it takes humility to to admit, yes, I need this in my life too.

It's such a such a vital, vital thing.

Okay, I want to kind of go practical as we kind of come to a close.

What would you say to somebody if like I'm I'm thinking, right, we've got, you know, seven, eight hundred people that come to church here, right?

And there are not seven or eight hundred people that are involved in small groups here at church, you know what I'm saying?

So um what would you say to somebody who is maybe attending large group, large group gatherings, no matter how regular that might be, and then and then isn't connected in a smaller, smaller community, what would you say?

What's a practical step they could take um to to go into like to enter into a smaller, a smaller community here in this in this context?

Mark, what would you say?

Well, I think I think uh you know, Danny was talking about like the fear, you know, like there's when you first get to know a group, it's like you gotta have there's probably a little bit of a buffer, right?

I mean, I don't have to tell you everything about my life the first minute I meet you, which is great.

And I think that's sometimes the fear that we have.

I think at C3 we've got a good opportunity for people in that we create those short-term groups that just kind of get you started.

Like these are all people that they haven't been meeting regularly, they're not it's it's it's pretty low barrier.

It it shouldn't be intimidating at all.

Sometimes it's just like in between services or you know, things like that.

Like, so it makes it a very low barrier for people.

In fact, that's how my men's group got started was really we did a short-term group and everybody went, hey, we're really enjoying this.

Can we continue it on?

It's like, of course we can, right?

So I think I think to me, it's like get signed up on one of those.

Just give it a shot.

Like, I think you got to lean into it.

Um you gotta start.

And that's a great place in my mind to start here at C3 is just in one of those short-term groups.

Yep.

Yep.

I know we've also talked about too, so I want you guys to talk about this because you've or also mentioned it already, is that like your serving team on Wednesday nights in a lot of ways feels like, no, that's my these are my people, right?

I like love them, get to serve alongside them, get to like really know them and and invest in them in ways.

So we talk about that aspect of maybe finding a community here at church might be in that that realm.

What would you say?

Yeah, I definitely like sometimes I'm like serving with like-minded people for the kingdom, like what what what's better than that?

Yeah, you know, try to tell me something's better than that because I don't think you're gonna convince me, you know.

Um, so I think yeah, just whether it's a serving team or a small group or um short-term group, I would say yeah, it's just worth it.

But but then to someone who's not involved with those things, um I think what comes to mind is uh to just stay with it.

Like it like Danny's already mentioned, it's gonna take a while for you to feel like these are your people, you know.

And like even for our students, it's like um, you know, I had a group of girls that when by the time they graduated, um, the closest friends were from three different schools, you know, and they drove each other insane when they were in junior high.

Um, but because of those differences, you know, like the Lord uh the Lord did the work and they they uh reaped the benefits of that um because they they didn't have a choice because their parents just brought them, but because of that, they stuck with it, you know.

And um so even if even if the people in the short-term group is like, this is not gonna work out, um, I would say change your mindset on that because some of the the people that you think it's not gonna work out with might be the exact people that you need in your life.

Um, and so stick with that and don't count it out too soon that this person is not a right fit or this group is not a right fit.

Um and then if you know you do end up trying a couple different groups, like you just have to be consistent.

Yeah.

And it is gonna take time for this to feel like this is home and that you can be a safe place, um, that you are received at um into a safe place, a safe place.

Um so yeah, I think that's what I would say to them.

I feel like you you can also do yourself a favor and like I mean, there is times where someone asks to be in a group, I think, and we just select them with what we think would be best.

But I think there's also like the chance too where if you come here on Sundays or whatever, and you're not just in here and then out the door, but you actually are like mingling with people and talking to people, you can find others who you might have things in common with or you think could be friends with, and then it's like, oh, maybe I'd want to be in a group with them so that it's not just kind of random, you know.

Yeah, like you can do you can make that easier on yourself in some way and find go seek out people and connections with people and people you might get along with.

For sure, for sure.

It's there, and and the Lord's designed this for us, right?

And it's and it's part of what we're talking about, the the full life that that the Lord has to offer us.

I want to end with this question and what you think of like one sentence answer, a one-sentence answer.

I'm gonna go around.

What would happen to our church if we fully like we're all bought in if every single person that walks into Carterville is like, yeah, I understand, understand my need to be here in a large group, I understand my need to be in a small group, to be known and and and to be held accountable, and what yeah, and receive encouragement, that all those kinds of things.

What would happen as a result of us all getting like being fully bought in with this, Jordan?

I'm coming to you.

Oh, I feel like you could literally ask me that and it would be a different sentence about every 30 minutes.

So take this with a grain of salt.

But the first thing that came to mind is just I think we would experience more of heaven on earth, and we would be able to uh to to build um up heaven on earth for the people around us, so the people that are outside of that community, we can show them what they're missing out on, but then we ourselves get to experience a little bit of taste of heaven on earth.

Yeah, we get to bring that.

Yeah, he allows us to bring that.

Yep.

That was more than a sentence.

That's great.

She got three or four there.

Can we expand a little bit?

I mean, I didn't I lost count, Jordan.

I I think uh one sentence.

I think we'd be known in the community for our love for Christ and for one another.

Alright, Danny.

Bring us home.

One sentence, what would happen if everybody if everybody in this church kind of got on board with this this idea?

We need we need one another.

I think we would grow both.

Not even both in so many different ways.

Period.

That was great.

Period.

Period.

I love that.

I mean, just think about that, right?

Heaven coming to earth, right?

Us being known for our love for God and for one another, right?

We would continue to grow.

I think about like the unity that would happen, you know, in this place.

I don't know about you, that's the kind of church we want to be a part of.

Um, I'm excited about what this might look like for our church as we continue to grow in this in this area.

And man, we want to thanks for listening to this podcast, but this is not the end of the conversation.

We'd love to continue the conversation with you.

So come find one of us that was on this podcast or or stop any of our staff or our elders.

We'd love to continue this conversation um and maybe talk with you about, hey, what it what does it look like uh for you to take a step deeper into community and and this this realization that that you need to you need to gather with with other people.

Um, man, so thankful that you joined us, and we'll we'll see you next time.