There is a Time for Everything-Doug Crum & Chuck Morris

Well, good morning.

Uh we are uh in for something a little different uh this morning.

Um the stage just got a lot wiser, um maybe a little better looking, um, and maybe um a little more anxious, not because of you, but because prior to me coming up here, one of our dear, loving, kind shepherds texted me and said, Hey, you shouldn't feel awkward at all that Chuck's voice is so much more booming and deep than yours.

We are we are really grateful that you're here.

Um, for those of you who who caught on and noticed just a few moments ago, uh we had a uh an uh a short video that we're showing about grief share.

Uh and something I've I feel really strongly about is the fact that when we come together, we're coming to worship God, but we're coming from very different places.

Uh and for some of you, it's a really exciting time.

Uh, for some of you, um, you're going through uh difficulty and hardship right now, uh, and we don't want to gloss that over.

Uh, we want to embrace the fact that that we're coming to praise God from different seasons of our life.

Uh, and so uh this morning, uh basically what I hope will happen is that Chuck and I are just going to sit up here and have a conversation about grief and loss uh and how we can be ministered to and how we can minister to others during that time.

And so uh we're gonna give you an opportunity um to listen in on that conversation.

The wise and um great things will come from that side um of the stage, and then I'm gonna be here just uh cheering you on and taking notes on learning how I can be a little bit more like you.

So I why don't we start off?

You have a passage in 2 Corinthians.

Why don't we go there first?

Yeah, so I'd like to read, and you can follow with me if you like, uh 2 Corinthians chapter 1, verses 3 through 7, and I'll have a few comments to make about that after.

2 Corinthians 1:3–7

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God.

For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ.

If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation.

If we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer.

And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.

Paul doesn't write this by accident, he's been in a period of suffering and needing of comfort himself, and I think that's why he introduces this letter to the Corinthians that way.

I'd like for you to notice one thing quickly that uh the word comfort appears uh ten times in this short passage.

Uh he's not making this as a passing remark.

He is hammering home one point by sheer repetition.

Just a few comments called your attention about this passage as we move on.

Uh number one, God is the source of comfort.

Verse 3 says, Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion, and the God of all comfort.

Comfort doesn't originate from us, it flows from God.

His own character.

And in matters of grief, especially, which we're talking about today, we're not manufacturing strength on our own to get through grief.

We're receiving comfort.

We're receiving strength.

And comfort has a purpose beyond ourselves.

Paul goes on to say in verse 4 that uh that he comforts us in all our troubles so we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort that we ourselves have received.

It's not just for us to privately hold on to.

Uh, it's given so we can pass our comfort along to one another.

And that's what grief share is about, and we'll talk more about that a little bit later.

Uh, Ralph Martin, one of my favorite commentators on this uh book, says that there's a divine purpose in suffering itself.

It isn't wasted or it isn't random, it equips us to minister to others.

And suffering qualifies us to help others.

In verses 4, 5, 4, 4, 6, and 7, we make that point.

Uh Brad Martin and other again says, he who has experienced one kind of affliction is particularly qualified to console others in that same and even in all other circumstances.

This is the theological backbone of grief support.

The widow who sits with a newly widowed, the parent who's lost a child reaching out to another parent who has lost a child.

Those who receive encouragement from God are qualified to enter sympathetically into the experience of those who's pathway through a veil of fears.

And all of us that sometimes know have been through a veil of fears.

In a congregation this size and this age, I doubt if there's anyone in here who has not lost someone's significant in their lives.

We don't get to be detached from hardship, Paul says.

Paul doesn't pretend to be above the fray.

He's very open and honest about his own feelings in this passage.

He names his own afflictions plainly.

We're not untroubled by the hard knocks of life.

This is honest and true feeling.

We're not exempt to our faith from loss.

It gives loss a purpose and a community to carry that loss in.

So to apply this, healthy grieving often means being willing to share our past sorrows and those currently in the middle of loss.

Not to compare pain, but to say, I know something about this, and I'm still here.

So a grief support group, which we're kicking off a week from Wednesday, tries to do exactly this.

Those grieving share their sorrow together, and in doing so share also encounter.

One of the good things about this is that if you participate in this group, you may learn things to help others who are grieving, not just receive help in your own grief.

So I close with a simple charge.

Don't let your grief go to waste.

Let it become in time the very thing that equipes you to sit with someone else.

I I agree with you.

Uh we we've all talked a lot about in-depth.

You're probably pretty familiar with what the church in Corinth was going through.

A little bit earlier, Lance was sharing during the communion time about this dysfunction that was taking place.

That's that was this very church.

That's what he addressed in the first letter.

Uh, and now he's circling back around.

I find it interesting that the way that Paul chooses to start this next letter is by offering comfort to these people.

I mean, he could have easily jumped back in and said, hey, you know, you guys still don't have it together.

They're under attack still, but now there's these superposses, super apostles that are running around, and and he could have immediately gone after them, but instead, like you pointed out, over and over again, he's using this idea of comfort, which he said does not originate from himself.

It comes from God.

And I think that's helpful because there are some people I've experienced uh some loss, but certainly not the loss that many of you have.

Um I feel like I'm a little bit of an anomaly, and for a lot of reasons, uh, for a lot of reasons, but one of them is I'm 50 years old.

I have both of my parents, I have both of my siblings, I have my spouse, my kids.

Um I've experienced a little bit of loss, um, but ultimately the comfort is not coming just from my own experiences.

My the comfort that I can offer to people is going to be because because God has offered comfort.

And so if you're sitting here and you're saying, I I don't relate because I have my parents, I haven't lost my spouse, there are still ways in which we can find comfort.

And and so we'll talk a little bit about that in in detail, and and I want to come back uh around um to this maybe a little bit later on, but there's an interesting word that Paul is going to use uh in the Greek to talk about comfort, and that's this word parakaleo.

Yeah.

Um it's it's basically two different words.

It's if you've heard of parable, uh it means to throw along, uh to throw beside.

Parakaleo is two words, and I think this is so fascinating.

It means to call alongside.

That it is simply when we talk about comfort, this is not about how you know the mighty, amazing Chuck with this super deep voice and all his wisdom is gonna come in and fix my brokenness.

It would be impossible, wasn't it?

Yes, it would be.

Not only is it impossible, it would be pretty presumptuous and arrogant.

And so I I just had this conversation.

We talked about this with my daughter.

Um, she got to spend an uh opportunity uh with some youth group kids this summer down in Corpus, and we were talking about when there would be some young ladies who would come up and they had these struggles, and how what do you say?

And one of the things we talked about is you know what, sometimes there's just you don't you don't know what to say.

And if you think you do, if you think you have the words that you're gonna say, and all the per all of a sudden that grieving person is gonna be like, oh, that's right, I'm gonna wipe away the tears, and everything is perfect now, you're really, you're really taking away from the grief that they're having, and and you're just trying to cover it up.

And so comfort is just sitting alongside someone.

That's right.

So uh let's move along to uh to watch a video prepared by the people who uh published the grief share curriculum, and after that we'll have some questions and answers.

So uh go ahead and show the video, and every grieving experience is different.

My journey through grief was certainly much more difficult than what I ever imagined.

You feel it in your body, the aches and the pain.

There's days I wake up and I don't want to do anything.

There were times I just could not concentrate on things.

I remember going to work one day, and I had two different kinds of shoes.

I had no purpose, nowhere to go, nothing to do.

I had lost my companion of 55 years.

All the things that you cared about seem like they're gone.

Yeah, I mean, it's it's just devastating.

The grief that happens after the death of a loved one can leave you feeling confused, lost, and alone without a roadmap.

But other people have traveled this grief journey before you, and there is hope and a way forward.

When you hear someone else's story of grief, their journey through struggles and hardships, it does give you hope.

That makes all the difference.

The support and encouragement of others that are walking the same journey is very helpful to know that you're not alone.

GriefShare is a proven video-based support group that connects you with others who are traveling the grief journey you're on right now.

Most people in this country don't talk about death, and even churches don't prepare you for death.

Grief Share is a place where you can be as raw and as ugly as you want to be, and it's okay.

It doesn't matter if your loss is from 10 years ago or 10 days ago, it's going to help.

The Grief Share group and the dynamics that occur there can have the power to help us move forward differently and see a different perspective.

Hearing other people's stories, putting mine in perspective.

It was great, it was wonderful.

I drowned people that understood what I was feeling.

Grief is not an event, it's a journey that you take as you figure out step by step what life after loss might look like.

And fortunately, it's not a journey that you have to take alone.

Welcome to Grief Share.

Each weekly Grief Share session consists of an insightful video with grief experts and testimonials, a small group discussion, and encouraging workbook exercises.

You'll also receive free online resources and tools that help you move forward in hope and healing.

I think grief share is a wonderful, wonderful program.

It will also help us connect with other people because we have the tendency to isolate.

And I think I saw it from a bigger picture, too.

Visit griefshare.org to learn more.

So there's some cards like this in the various tables around if you like to register for this.

We encourage you to register for this program.

And you don't have to register, you can just show up a week from Wednesday and we'll take care of you there.

But registering gives you access to the materials that will be uh made available to everyone in the class.

So I just pass that along for what it's worth.

Uh so now we have some questions.

Doug and I are going to ask each other one or two questions, and then we're gonna open it up to the congregation to ask us some questions.

So, Doug, do you have a question for me?

Uh I I do have a question uh for you.

Um has there uh been a a season in your life where you felt your own grief was somehow being used later to help someone else through their grief?

I think that season for me maybe now, but I'm not sure.

Uh I'll talk more about this a little bit later, but uh I lost my mother in 2020 during uh at the beginning of COVID.

We couldn't even have a funeral for her, and she was a remarkable woman who lived to be 98 years old.

And so the closure that we had all hoped to get we wasn't there.

And then of course I lost my beloved wife Doris uh in November of 2024, which uh was the basis for my moving up here to be near my son Scott and his wife DC and all their kids.

So uh I think now maybe the season, but I'm honestly not sure how I'm gonna react to all of this.

Uh but I want to make myself vulnerable to do that with the group and share that with you.

So just would you say, did you realize in the moment, like, oh, this is this is something that will help me minister to people later, or is that something that later on as you reflect it on, you're like, okay, now I I understand.

I think I'll reflect it on it later.

Okay.

So yeah.

And it takes a little time sometimes.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And and we've talked about this, and and I we're just I don't know when this was supposed to come up in the conversation, but one of the things that we talked about was that that this program or or sharing your grief, um, it it's it's a lot about timing.

It is.

Uh, and that that potentially you could be uh in a place of grief and maybe right now you're not ready for that.

Right.

And and that could happen.

Uh we're certainly not trying to tell you not to come, but some of you are maybe still in a place where you're not ready to begin that journey.

Right.

Uh for other people though, um, they might have experienced loss and grief um years or decades ago, and it hasn't been resolved.

And so that in no way do not think that that you're gonna show up and we're gonna say we need uh you know a recent death certificate.

You may be dealing with grief that happened years ago.

Right.

Uh and and this would be an opportunity not only for you to grieve, but also um for you to help others remember it.

Yeah, that's right.

So I wanted to ask you a question.

Uh what's the difference between someone trying to fix your grief and someone just sitting with you in your grief?

Well, I don't know if I've shared this story or not, but I I remember this very clearly, and I still struggle with this.

But this was um over 20 years ago.

I was a youth minister.

Um we had a a young lady who made it.

Uh we are having a Bible study, and she showed up a little early, and she was having a terrible day.

Um a lot of things had happened, and uh the the last thing, or one of the things she mentioned was she got a flat tire.

Well, I'm like, and I'm I was like, I have tools, I know how to use a jack.

Like, let's fix this.

And I'm like immediately trying to think on how to fix this.

And my sweet bride was sitting right next to me, and she put her hand on my leg because I'm literally trying to get up from the couch to go find tools to fix this young lady's tire because she's on a spare or whatever.

I I don't even remember.

I don't and and later on as we reflected on this, you know, Jeffrey said she didn't need things to be fixed.

She just needs someone to sit with her.

Uh and I've struggled with that because I'm not familiar firsthand with a lot of grief.

Yeah.

Um, and so when I walk into a situation, oftentimes, whether it's at a hospital or a funeral home, um, I just have to remind myself, it is not my job to fix things.

All I need is someone, all they need is someone to fit with me.

Um my uh mother-in-law um was a member here for years.

Um nine years ago, this last May, um, she she passed away.

Uh she was in the hospital here in uh in Brownwood for or Abilene for um uh over a month or right at a month.

Um and my wife can still remember, I mean, this is nine years ago, she can still remember the people who came and sat with her uh in that time.

She cannot remember one conversation.

But she she when we first came here, she says, I remember that person because they would come sit in the waiting room with my sisters and my dad while my mom was dying.

And so just feeling right.

So now I think we want to open it up.

Yeah, I think we do.

I think we do.

I think we might have a couple of people who want to ask questions.

Yes, I hope we have somebody.

We if you have a question to ask, um we we want to give you an opportunity okay, already we have yes, this good looking gentleman four rows back.

Okay.

So those are really great questions.

It's kind of a two-part question, and I I'm I'm guessing that most of you behind uh Morris didn't hear that, so I want to re repeat it.

He said, What are some of the things that I can say when I'm going to to visit someone?

And how do I battle with um you said intruding?

How do I not feel like I'm intruding on that?

How do I I do that?

So what do we think about that?

I think uh just being present is the most important thing.

Uh there's very little any of us can say to help anything, except to let people know that we're there for them and let them talk, let them ask.

Uh just being there is the most important thing.

Uh and so don't let not knowing what to say hold you back from helping someone.

Just show up.

We I I took a class years ago, and my wife and I still talk about this, but it's probably one of the most helpful classes I took in school.

Uh, it was called uh ministry uh to grieving uh people or grieving folks.

Um one of the things that the professor said, Virgil Fry, he's a chaplain, he was uh a fairly new widower uh when I took that class.

Uh and and one of the things he said is one of the best things that you can do is get involved in the Kleenex ministry.

Uh and my wife loves to talk about the Kleenex ministry.

It's really as simple as it sounds.

Um sometimes the best thing that you can do.

I just had I just had a flashback to a moment.

The best thing that you can do is just hold a box of Kleenex and offer it to somebody.

There's just there's just no words.

But how did what about this idea of intruding?

I think it's easy to intrude if you approach someone with what you think are answers.

So just don't offer any answers.

Just offer it.

I don't I didn't never felt intruded on during my losses by people who just expressed their sympathy and said, I'm sorry, I'm here.

And that's all they needed to say.

Yeah.

Job uh had had some friends who showed up, and for the first few days, they were awesome friends.

He was sitting there in the ash heap, and they they sat there with him.

Um and then and then they opened their mouths.

Uh-huh.

And this is something that if you've gone through grief, you know about this.

And people like me who have not gone through that sometimes in our own anxiety because we see you hurting and it makes us uncomfortable, and we want to make things better because we love you, but we don't know how to do it.

And sometimes we say some really terrible, awful things.

And so a lot of times when I'm visiting with folks who are going through this, I have to say, hey, just a heads up, there's gonna be some people who love you, and they're gonna say some theologically broken things and some hurtful things.

Um, I I remember Virgil Fry, he was he was visiting with someone who was going through that.

He he was visiting with a young lady, she had lost her husband.

She was um at the um visitation, she was standing there over her husband's um coffin, and a lady came up to her and patted her and said, It's okay, there's other guys out there.

Um and it's just like that she said that.

And and it was, I don't think she was trying to be mean, she didn't know what to say, and so yeah, um, I I think that the less we say, usually the better.

I think we may have a question in the back.

Okay, yeah.

Yes.

Is there a loss that you've gone through that makes you able to sit with others going through that loss?

Yes.

I'll take this opportunity to share a little bit about a little bit more about my own losses.

Uh my mother, as I mentioned earlier, passed in the in the beginning of COVID in 2020.

And uh, you know, she is a woman who was well known all over the county where she lived, and we would have had the church would have been overflowed if we'd had a regular service for her.

We were allowed to have 10 people at the cemetery, and we had to open the coffin sitting on top of the grave so family could say goodbye.

Uh so that loss, as I processed that, I think will help me, help me to sit with someone who's going through something similar.

The other thing that's happened to me is that my wife uh passed in November 2024, and a lot of us have lost loved ones incrementally.

And my wife was that way.

She was very sick the last uh, particularly the last six months of her life.

And so I knew I was gonna lose her, and I grieved incrementally, and so then when she passed, I asked myself, and even almost felt guilty, why don't I miss her more?

Well, I'd already been missing her for two or three years.

So grief is complicated, and those kind of things happen.

So those are the kinds of experiences that I have had that I hope would help me to be able to sit with members of this group that we have, and any of you want to want me to sit with you.

Uh next question.

Yes, Thomas.

I I definitely can answer that one, but I I want to hear your thoughts on that.

Thomas asked, he said that based on your worldview, um, people treat death and loss differently.

As Christians, we do have a different uh belief.

Right.

Is this going to um come from a Christian aspect or is it going to be let's get together and talk about this program is unapologetically Christian.

It repeats over and over again that God is a source of comfort, and it uh emphasizes that a relationship with Jesus Christ is the most important asset that we have to bring to our loss.

So that's a good question.

Yeah, thank you for asking that.

It doesn't even this program doesn't even acknowledge the other worldviews except maybe in passing.

All right.

Next question.

Oh, yes, ma'am.

Is there a charge to take in this class?

Uh we like to charge$25 for the handbook, but if that is a problem, we have scholarships.

Yeah, there we we yeah, scholarships are available, but yes, that's a great question.

And here's also available to pay for free of charge to the people with your children.

Yes.

And and just to kind of add on to that, just so you're familiar, it's gonna be starting a week from this coming Wednesday.

It's going to be at 6 30.

Uh, it's going to be in class four.

So if you're not familiar, I don't have my air set on, but I would want uh if you open if you immediately look like you're that's a good question.

So well, this is based on a professionally high quality produced uh DVD that lasts about 30 minutes.

Uh it has lots of different experts and it's non-judgmental, and it's uh it's really good stuff.

Produced by the same people who produced divorce care, which some of you uh shared with the last over the last year, a whole different approach than divorce care.

But uh and so we watch the video and then we we take a short break and then we spend some time talking about what the video taught us.

And the facilitator, which will be me or Lance, if we have enough folks to sign up, but we need more than one group.

Lance is going to help me with uh with the second group to facilitate it.

Uh then we will talk through as a group uh what the video had to say, and that will be the opportunity for folks to share their own brief experiences and to be supported by each other.

And it's the Holy Spirit is really present in these group uh discussions.

I have observed it time and time again where where someone was really struggling and members of the group came to their aid and were able to offer just the right kind of support.

Um and so this is not gonna be a thing where you're gonna be asked to stand up in front of 30 different people or anything like that.

The groups will be small.

If if one group exceeds that amount, I think you said around eight to ten, yeah, you split off and have another group so that you're not gonna be overwhelmed surrounded with people, you're not gonna be forced.

And you will be uh given the opportunity just to not say anything.

Nobody's asked to talk unless you want to.

Yeah.

Great question.

Uh another question.

I I have a another question.

Okay.

Um isn't it true that everybody always grieves the same all the time, regardless of their experience?

Everybody has to grieve the same.

Isn't that true?

No.

Wait, what?

So let's let's unpack that just a little bit.

Sure.

How is it that um expand on the idea that that we all grieve in different ways?

Why is that?

Uh, and and how does that apply to when we get into our groups and people start talking about this?

Well, some kinds of grief are more intense than others.

You know, when I lost my mother at age 98, we all knew she was gonna pass.

She had a much longer life than we ever expected.

And so to grieve her was to be thankful for the life that she lived and to reflect on that, and that's a that's one kind of grief.

Uh, losing my wife, talking about my own experience, she was 81, which is a little more than the average lifespan.

But she was sick for so long, and I was all wrapped up in taking care of her, and it was really complicated for me, both during and after that time.

So that's two examples of what different kinds of grief.

Losing a child at a young age for a young parent is in my view the most devastating thing that can happen.

I know some of you here have experienced that, so that's a different kind of grief.

That's right.

And so that always looks differently.

We're not here to rubber stamp every type of grief.

No.

Uh, there are unhealthy ways to grieve, and and and we see that.

Um, but we also know that there's a lot of different healthy ways for you to grieve.

But one of the things we we do want to encourage you to do is be willing um to seek help uh and and talk with people uh as you're going through this.

You are not alone in your suffering, um, and you you don't have to do this alone.

One other thing we wanted to point out uh is that that uh you may ask yourself, should I join this group?

My grief happened 15 years ago.

Uh and and this is for anybody who would like to number one share your experience in grief, or maybe your grief your grief event happened years ago, but you still have some unresolved things that crop up from time to time.

So the timing is not important here.

But your your state of mind and your point of view about your grief should be your motivation for signing up.

Yeah.

And and we won't go into this in detail.

At some point, I'd love to share my idea on this, which is untested.

Um, but I do feel like that you can go through grief um multiple times.

Um and there you you can you you live within that grief.

Yeah.

Um and then but then you can revisit it.

Right.

It's not like at one point you're like, oh, I I no longer grieve this, you know, this person that I love who's gone.

You can find your ways out.

And and that's another weird thing, is sometimes, you know, you you experience what we talked about as anticipatory grief.

You knew uh that your wife was dying, you were grieving while she was still alive, and then there's almost a sense of relief.

Yeah.

Because you know that she's not hurting anymore, you know she's received a reward, and then just to make it even worse, then you'll feel guilty that you felt relief, that you're not feeling grief the way somebody else different does.

And so we want to just be able to talk a little bit about that.

I want to close out with this.

Um we're familiar with the story of Job from the Bible.

It is an excellent um reminder of grief.

Um, but one of the things that I've thought about often over the last several years, uh, he loses just nearly everything.

He is now, you know, he's sitting there in sackcloth and ash, and he's grieving.

And his his wife, and I know this sounds weird, but I always try to imagine it.

I I I picture her on this little bitty house, and she opens up the door, the screen door, and and we have on record, she says something to her husband.

Does anybody remember what she says?

Curse God and die.

And then in my mind, she turns around and you hear that screen door slam shut, and that's all we know, and we're left to sit with the judgment that we have over Job's wife for the way that she is yelling at her husband.

She lost her children too.

She lost everything just like Job.

And I think we need to be very careful on how we judge people based on the grief that that they are going through.

Um, our our goal is to sit with people and to love them.

You may not be in this place of grief right now, but I promise you, there are people around you who are.

Uh, and we want to encourage you to be open-minded and soft-hearted because ultimately we have a God who offers his mercy and love to us uh in our worst times.

And that's the invitation that we want to offer to you this morning.

Maybe you feel like you're in that place right now.

Maybe it's a place of apathy, maybe it's a place of loss, a place of brokenness.

We want you to know that we have a God who does not overlook you.

Uh, we don't have a God who chides you for your struggles.

We have a God who literally sits with us in our hurt.

And we want to continue to come here and praise a God who loves us even in that hurt.

And so we're gonna stand and sing a song of invitation, and we want to invite you to come this morning as we stand and sing.