May 11th, 2025 - "The Place for Women" - Rev. Dr. T. Ray Wheeler

Matt Nelson: Welcome to the Sermon podcast from First United Methodist

Church in downtown Bentonville.

If you have questions related to what you hear today or just want to find

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Rev. Dr. T. Ray Wheeler: I'm so grateful to be able to bring a

message to you all this morning.

I so appreciate you all being here.

And on Mother's Day, I do wanna say I've had a variety

of responses to Mother's Day.

I think some people, uh, really feel troubled by Mother's Day or

they've had a loss, and then other people have their family from inside.

I told the the first service, it's a little like, I've always

thought about this in airports.

Airports are a strange.

Liminal space because some people are going, oh, I haven't seen you in so long.

And some people are going, yeah, I fell sick.

You know what I mean?

So that kind of space, we want to, we want to acknowledge all that.

Some people may have had difficult relationships with their mom,

or may have lost a mother, or maybe have their mother here.

So let's recognize all of those spaces.

And I also thought Michelle this morning gave a little caveat.

She said, we really want to talk about, in terms of parenting.

Which made me think when I was a single parent, I used to have a friend who

was a single mom, and she would send me a present every mother's day and

she would say, Ray, you're a sport.

You're a spoon and a fork, just like a KFC.

You do both those jobs.

So that is really wonderful and I want us to think about that.

The other quick caveat is.

I'm gonna be speaking to you about women from my experience, but we know

there are lots of different, uh, you know, just like men, we're varied and

so don't be offended by some of 'em.

I'm trying not to characterize everyone, just so you know.

Just to get everything out there, air everything out.

So the title of my sermon this morning is The Place for Women.

Ooh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right.

Clark Clark said it.

So my wife saw a preview of this and she said, you better explain that.

So that's my, and my mission is to explain that today, where's the place for women?

So when I thought about this, I thought about last year, my wife and I went to

England together with a group of pastors, and we toured England and we followed

the paths of John and Charles Wesley.

And let me tell you, they did not.

They didn't stay in London.

I was kind of excited to stay in London.

No, no.

We went out to Epworth and uh, we went out to some farm.

We went to Bristol and we were following that path.

And in Epworth we saw the family parsonage.

And I just think of Susanna Wesley.

She's by herself in Epworth.

Samuel is at a conference in London, and Samuel loved London.

Every time he got to go to a conference, it's stretched into some long days,

and she's in her parlor on a Sunday afternoon, unseasonably warm, I guess,

in her parlor in 1711, say late March.

And she looks out in her parlor and there's people sitting everywhere.

Her, there are people sitting on the floor.

There are people sitting on the few pieces of furniture, and then out in

the hallway she looks, and there are people sitting out in the hallway.

Some people have taken chairs from the kitchen, and then on the stairs that

lead up to the second floor, there's someone, or two or three people actually

sitting on every stair going up.

And even though she can't see it in the kitchen, she knows the kitchen

is full of people too listening.

And when she turns to the left and the windows are open to let

a little breeze in, she sees people circled around the windows.

And she opens up this small group, small group between 250

and 300 people in her home there.

And, uh, she starts with a couple of songs, some hymns that everybody knows.

Then she opens her Bible and she reads the scripture for the day, and she

begins to preach and expound on that scripture and teach these people.

Now, why do you imagine she might be doing that?

Like I said, Samuel's in London and he did have what's called a

curate in, uh, Anglican terms.

That just means assistant pastor, associate pastor.

He had a curate named Reverend Inman, and Susanna did not like a bad teaching.

She was not a fan of and she was not afraid to say, oh, that's

not, that's not really good.

So she had felt really worried about her children.

Her children are sitting around her while she's teaching with

all these numbers around her.

John's about eight.

Charles is about four, and she started with this just a Sunday afternoon.

I'm gonna teach my own children.

And the servants who were there on Sunday heard and said, can we come in?

Sure.

Can we bring our family?

Sure.

Other people invited people until, you know, small town, small farming town.

Epworth, 200 people are meeting on the afternoon.

Now, Reverend Inman, I don't know this historically, but I imagine

his congregation fell off a little bit while 200 people are going

to hear Susanna Wesley preach.

And so he was kind of unhappy about it and he wrote to Samuel in London

and he said, you have to stop this.

You know, maybe I don't know what she's teaching.

I Samuel knows.

Susanna and he says she's smart and she's, she's dedicated.

So he writes back to her and he says, oh, I'm, I love your zeal, but I have

some problems with, she writes back and answers every one of his problems and

says, we're really having good meetings and it's very important for my family

and important for my friends in the neighborhood and for her congregants.

She did say, I kind of hated that we have so many people.

I was really enjoying just teaching my children, but I gotta answer the call.

People are coming.

So there were several letters that went back and forth, and

finally he basically says, I really would rather you not do that.

And Susanna writes back to him and I, I'm gonna read this verbatim

because I think it kind of explains a lot about the mother of Methodism.

She wrote back and said, if you do after all think fit to dissolve this assembly,

do not tell me that you desire me to do so for that will not satisfy my conscience.

But send me your positive command in such full and expressed terms as may

absolve me from all guilt and punishment for neglecting this opportunity

of doing good when you and I shall appear before the great and awful

tribunal of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is what the kids might call a mic drop moment for Susanna.

And guess what?

Sammy writes back, oh, I think it's really good that you're doing this, honey.

Keep going.

It's really good.

Even Pastor Inman went, oh yeah, it's good.

They're doing good stuff.

I checked it out.

So is it any wonder when John and Charles go out and they're starting

to organize the Methodist movement and they're organizing small groups,

they often picked strong women, intelligent women to lead these small

groups and to be pastors of churches.

And there's not any wonder they saw their mother doing that

through their entire lives.

So we can be very happy about this in FUMC downtown Bentonville, can't we?

We have our own Reverend, Dr. Michelle Morris, who is our great leader

who leads us well every Sunday and is intelligent and kind and all of

the things we want in a leader, and I'm so grateful that we have her.

And that the United Methodist Church values women.

So, amen.

So when I think about Susanna Wesley, I think her story suggests that the

place for women is in the pulpit.

Amen.

So I selected a verse of Psalm one, just a few verses, but I took it from

a, a translation by a woman named Nan Merrill, you, you may have heard of her.

She had published a really famous book some years back called Praying the Psalms.

So this is her translation of Psalm one.

And what I'd like to invite you to do is to, uh, think about a woman in your

life who has been a strong tower for you.

A woman who's instructed you or loved you, or pushed you or approved you,

or made you who you are today, get that woman in your head right now.

And as you listen to these words, see what words stand out to you

about this person that's been so important in your life, this woman.

So this is from Psalm one.

Blessed are those who walk hand in hand with goodness.

Who stand beside virtue, who sit in the seat of truth.

I think of Susanna Wesley preaching in her parlor who sit in the seat of

truth for their delight, is in the spirit of love and in love's heart.

They dwell day and night.

They're like trees planted by streams of water and their leaves

flourish, and in all they do.

They give life.

This is the word of God for us, the people of God.

God.

Now when I think about another place for when I think about the

story of Lydia in the book of Acts.

So you see Paul is on a missionary journey.

He's in Philippi and it's the Sabbath, and he says, let's go outside the city.

Let's find a quiet place to pray.

But does Paul find a quiet place to pray?

No.

He finds a group of people out there.

And what does Paul do?

He preaches the gospel of Jesus Christ, and in that group is a leader, a civic

leader, and a business leader named Lydia.

The Bible says she was a traitor or a dealer in purple cloth.

That's like having the Cadillac dealership here.

I mean, it's Purple Claw.

She was successful.

She had money and she was successful and she ran a strong business,

but she was touched in her heart.

The Bible says God opened her heart and she received the message of

Christ and she said, rabbi, come to my house and to my whole household.

And he comes to the household and he preaches to the household and

everybody gets saved and baptized.

And as Paul is turning away to go on his missionary journey,

she says, no, rabbi, stay.

Stay with me.

And I almost think she's saying, what can we build here, rabbi?

How can we spread this gospel?

And you know, I don't think.

Anyone but the Lord knows how many Christians came to Christ

because this business woman was traveling and trading in purple

cloth and shining the love of Jesus.

Everywhere she went.

We know that there was a house church in her home.

'cause later in Acts, Paul goes back and he says, I preached to the brothers

and sisters there in the house of Lydia.

So when I think of Lydia and think of a place for women, I think the

place for women is, is the CEO office.

Or on a board of directors or as an entrepreneur in the

high echelons of business.

That's the message I get from Lydia.

Now, I'm gonna give you another caveat here.

Maybe too many caveats for this sermon, but this is Ray Wheeler's theology.

This is always something I've felt, honestly, I've never really talked about

this, but I think women know things

and, and what I mean by that is.

Women look at the world a little differently than men do.

Many of them do, and they make different connections than we do.

Okay.

I see some men out there going, that's true.

Yes, that is true.

And I also think sometimes the Holy Spirit gives them a voice of prophecy, lets

them see something with the connections they make, and then the Holy Spirit

enlivens that as a gift of prophecy.

I've thought about that this week, kind of a timely thing.

I was listening about Cardinal Bob now, Pope Leo.

First American Pope and one of the journalists had been on the

phone with some of his friends back in south side of Chicago.

You can do that when they come from the south side of Chicago.

So she called him and they said, several of 'em told her this story.

They said when our mothers would get together and we're playing and,

and you know, we're being altar boys and whatever, our mothers would get

together and they'd say, you know, I think Leo might be the first American

pope, but boom, maybe that was a joke.

Maybe that was the Holy Spirit and the voice of prophecy.

I do also have a little story.

My mother was friends with a woman, I'll call her Grace, a much

older woman in our neighborhood in Duncan, where I was raised.

And um, she and Grace would go to coffee or they'd sit in one

of kitchen or they would talk.

They were very good friends.

And when she had me, she was so excited and she wanted to share that with Grace.

Now, I was kind of a miracle baby, believe it or not.

My parents have been told they couldn't have children, and so it was about

five years later I came along and then.

I had three brothers and sisters, so that'll tell you something.

But anyway, she's holding her baby.

She's very excited and she wants to share this with her older friend.

And by this time she said Grace was ill and quite old and elderly, and she

was in a hospital bed in her living room so she could look out the window.

And she took me in her arms and she laid me in Grace's lap.

And she said, grace just starts weeping these big tears.

And she says, what's wrong, grace?

She says, I'll never get to hear him preach.

And I said, when she told me that story, she's told me that story a few times

since I've accepted the calling here.

And I said, no, you won't, because I won't accept that calling time I'm 60

or trying to think, you know, I, that's so, that's the way that's gonna be.

So I think of my mom and I think of grace as having a spirit of

prophecy, the mouth of a prophet.

I also think of my mother.

I, some people have difficult relationship with their mother.

I had a really great relationship with my mom.

She was a spiritual leader in our church.

She was a bookkeeper in our church and for many years, as long as I

could remember growing up, she was a youth director from say, the early

sixties, all the way through the late seventies in our home church.

And I remember going to church with, you know, I thought these were adults,

we were meeting, they were so tall, I was five years old or whatever, and

we'd meet at church and one night I'm running along the sidewalk, as boys

will do, and I fell and hit my head and cut a big gash in my forehead.

And you know, if you've ever done that, I was leaking quite a bit and

one of those big fellas grabbed me up and another youth went and got a

washcloth and they took me to my mom.

And my mom was a nurse for a long time, so she's like.

Cool as a cucumber.

Let's get him in the car.

Let's go to the emergency room.

I go to the emergency room, I get my stitches.

I remember that young man holding me and and comforting me with

that on my head when I was young.

And then later I say I'm in sixth grade or so.

I know I was still in upper elementary.

I walked home from school and there was this huge guy in our kitchen, I

think he was 6 5, 6 4, 6 5, and he said, and we had those old form Micah.

Type chairs, you know, that were big round, or I mean big orange

things that kind of sunk in.

And he's in that chair and he's got his hands down around the bottom

of the floor, except he's a very tall, big man and he's counseling.

Talking to my mother, she was the youth director.

He happened to be the young man that has scooped me up and put the cold,

calm class on my hand, but I didn't recognize him because of about a year

before that he'd gotten back from.

Vietnam and he was wearing a, an old army jacket and a t-shirt and faded

jeans and sandals and he had hair, really long hair and a long beard.

And I didn't recognize it.

She was counseling with him, all those feelings he had being

there, the things he had seen.

And he was looking for her, uh, uh, help and her counseling at that time.

So when he leaves, I said, well, that guy looked pretty rough.

I kind of was thinking in my head, why is that hippie doing in our kitchen?

And my mother, I said, he looked right.

My mother said something I've never forgotten to this day.

She, she paraphrased Proverbs and she said, Ray, everyone is right in their

own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.

And I've never forgotten that.

You know, she told me after that, subsequently when I got older, she said,

when I was being a youth director in the sixties and the early seventies,

the parents would come to me and they'd say, oh, praise preach against this

long hair that everybody's having.

And she said, I couldn't do it because I knew that wasn't important.

It wasn't what I was about.

I was about who they were on the inside.

And I think about that line from our scripture today for their delight is

in the spirit of love and in love's heart, they dwell day and night.

My mother showed me that the place for women was leadership of young

people and counseling and caring for people no matter what they look like.

I've never forgotten that lesson.

It's been a great lesson for me.

So where is the place for women?

Well, the place for women is in the pulpit.

The place for women is as a prophetic voice or as a CEO of

business or as an entrepreneur.

And I'd like to throw this in my daughter.

She used to be my bonus daughter, but then she had my first grandchild, so.

Now I'm just adopting her.

She's my daughter, but she, uh, got a PhD in chemical engineering, Dr. Kaylee

Kamala Nathan, and she does biomedical research in a lab in Minnesota.

And I would like to tell a story about it, but I don't know

anything about biomedical research.

I'm just real proud of her that she's working on this.

And I think someday she's gonna find the cure for cancer.

So a woman's place in this world, beloved is everywhere and anywhere.

And we give thanks this morning for the women in our lives who shaped us,

who opened our eyes to possibility, who loved us, and who blessed us,

and who blessed us even to this day.

Glory be to God.

Amen.

Matt Nelson: Thanks for listening to the Sermon podcast from First United

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