Not So Among You

Olé, olé, olé. Olé, olé, olá. Olé, olé, olé.

Cada día te quiero más. Soy, soy memorial. Es

un sentimiento. No puedo parar. Olé, olé. Okay,

I'll stop. I'll stop. What? What? What is this?

Listen, this song is stuck in my... Okay, it's

World Cup season. right? Yeah. For the 0 .5 %

chance that our listeners are watching the World

Cup because we're Americans and even though it's

taking place in our country, I don't know. It's

actually enjoyable. I'm enjoying it. But anyways,

my favorite part about the World Cup so far has

been all of the Europeans being like, oh, this

is what America's really like. It's so fun. Like

watching them on TikTok and they're like, it's

no longer what their media portrays us to be

like, but they're realizing we have amazing stuff

like Buc -ee's. Yeah. Watching like people from

Denmark discover Buc -ee's and Waffle House.

Watching them discover Waffle House has been

amazing. Anyways, so that chant. That's incredible.

That's actually a popular soccer chant in Argentina.

In Argentina. And so I lived in Argentina, and

I went to soccer games in Argentina. But even

that, we would just be in the cafeteria of the

school when I was in Argentina. And so the song

Ole Ole, they're just chanting. And then it says,

I love you more each day. And then the original

song goes, Soy Argentino, so I'm Argentine. And

then it's a sentimento, it's a feeling, no puedo

parar, I can't stop. But like... in Argentina,

like this is a huge song, but like in the cafeteria,

they'd change I'm Argentine to like, the big

one I remember is soy, soy facturas. And a factura

was like a really popular dessert. And so we

were chanting in the cafeteria, like we want

this dessert. We want this dessert. So anyways,

it's World Cup season. I thought what better

way to open up the Pursuing Jesus podcast. And

I changed it to soy memorial. Well, que esta

la factura? I wish I had some facturas. I don't

have them. What are they? So a factura is it's

a pastry filled with like jelly and stuff like

that. And there's different styles. There's different

styles of them. So it's kind of like their version

of a donut. Okay. I dig that. I dig that. And

they were delicious. We will have to find some

facturas somewhere here in Stanley County. In

Stanley County. You know, there's a... There's

a Latin store in Albemarle. It's got some pretty

good stuff. I've been in there a couple times.

Okay. We might have to go. We might have to go.

So anyways, what's up, Pursuing Jesus people?

You know, you talk about singing, Sean, and you

open with a song, which I was not prepared for

at all. Sean just looks at me and goes, I have

an opening. And boy, did I. And boy, did you.

My favorite part about the World Cup has not

only been the people experiencing America, but

the spoof videos that I see on Facebook or on

Instagram of people pretending to be the players

and then hearing a country's quote -unquote national

anthem. But it's just a song that people know

well from their country. Right. I saw one that

was courtesy of the red, white, and blue. Standing

for America's National Anthem. I saw the British

one, and it's like that drill beat. Man's not

hot. Two plus two is four. Quick maths. I recognize

that song. I actually do. Here's the real question.

How does a song become the National Anthem? Is

it by votes? Could I start a petition to change

our song to Party in the USA? I feel like as

far as... the focuses of our degrees that we

both have, yours is more inclined to have the

answer to this question than mine. Even though

it probably still is way off, you're closer than

I am there, buddy. That's a great question. Is

it something that just naturally happens over

time? Or is it an act of Congress? Okay, so as

far as the United States, I feel like it had

to have been an act of Congress, right? To implement

this? The Star Spangled Banner was not our first

national anthem. Wait. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

Is this going to be one of those questions that's

on the test for people to become citizens and

us as citizens have no idea about it? I don't

know, but if you're listening and you're an American

citizen, unlike Sean, you... We've talked about

that before, haven't we? If you're listening

and you're an American citizen, unlike Sean,

this is what's on the test. My country, tis of

thee, used to be our national anthem, which,

interestingly enough, is... The Steel's the same

tune and meter from the British National Anthem

at the time, which was God Save the King. We

straight up took their National Anthem, put our

own lyrics to it, and said, nah, this is ours

now. This ain't about a king. This ain't about

a king. My country, tis of... Oh, dude. And playing

on the singing theme again here, there's been

a lot of singing in the building here at Memorial

recently, hasn't there? You know what? There

is joy in the air, and sometimes that joy comes

out in song form. Yes, song and dance. What are

we talking about here, Sean? VBS, baby. Oh, yeah,

dude. At the time you were listening to this

podcast, VBS will have been well and over by

about a week or so. Yeah, so to give you some

behind the scenes for our podcast listeners who

are dedicated listeners. This is off the page.

Yeah. Oh man. Still, we got to get some patron

supporters, but until then you get all the information.

So for me and Ben, the podcast that you listened

to last week happened yesterday because we're

in the middle of summer and we've got to double

up on some stuff. And so, but somebody's got

the nerve to be gone next week. You know, sometimes

people have to go to Orlando, Florida and visit

universal studios for the Lord. Yeah. It's a

vacation. Listen, this is closer to a vacation

than Mission Serve was. But yeah, SLU, I'm leaving

out for SLU next week. By the time you listen

to this, I'll be back from SLU. But yeah, we'll

be in Orlando. We do get to visit SeaWorld. We

do get to visit Universal. It is a... It is a

treat for the amount of knowledge that is about

to be stuffed into our students' heads. Amen.

So it's actually a really cool policy. It's like,

hey, we're going to sit you in a conference room,

in a business conference room for hours and hours

and hours, and people are just going to throw

so much information. Your hand's going to get

tired from writing, but don't worry. You're going

to get a break, and you're going to get to go

ride some crazy roller coasters. So it's actually

really cool how they do that so that they realize

teenagers can only take so much. Everybody hits

that saturation point. You just got to breathe.

excited for the SeaWorld break. I'm excited for

the Universal break. Exactly, exactly. Well,

before you skip out of town again here, Sean,

I believe you and I have some passages that we

got to talk about. Man, and yeah, and we are

officially, fully into quarter three, baby. We're

quarter three. This is purple book status. This

is purple book time. So we've been orange. We've

been orange. Orange, we're glad we're done. Blue,

I'm not blue, that is gone. And now we're purple.

How are we going to make a joke about this? You

sang about Purple Rain last week. Okay, that's

true. Purple book, purple book. That's how you

ended the podcast, isn't it? I guess it is. I

think it is. But anyways, we are now in there.

So once again, if you have not picked up that

purple book. Make sure you go get it. We are

fully invested into the purple book now. Absolutely.

And if you want to decide the color of the next

book as we're approaching quarter four, go ahead

and just tape a color swatch from Home Depot

or Lowe's on Sean's door. No, don't. And we'll

do that by verse. You're going to hurt my heart

if you do this because if you hold on. Did you

already make it? No. Because if you hold all

three books together, you'll notice that the

colors go well together. I've been using a color

wheel to pick the colors to make sure the books

blend together well. So if someone just comes

out here with some random shade of red or something,

like, oh, we got our state fans and our Carolina,

they're going to be like, it'll end up being

a college color debate. Your door will become

equally parts red and blue. None of those colors

are going to look good with the color scheme

I've chosen. So you're saying that based off

of your plan, an outrageous request might be

kind of out of left field and people wouldn't

really be understanding what they're asking for.

Yes. That sounds like a text of scripture that

I heard about recently. Oh, see now that's a

good transition. That's what I'm talking about.

They're not going to see this, but we got to

pound it. Boom. There's a pound, man. What, what,

what a difference. Cause like last week we were

struggling with the fake transitions. And then

today a banger of a banger transition. And now

that I've talked about the transition, let's

get into it. There it is. You have effectively

ruined it. Yeah, I know. But, wow, that was so

good. Oh, man, props to you. Man, what you been

drinking over there? You got some good coffee

today. It's a nice dark roast, a little bit of

honey. Local honey? Trader Joe's honey. Okay,

upper class honey. No, we get our rice from there.

It's better than like... Walmart rice. I don't

know. And so we got honey this time too. Interesting.

So Jesus, Bible passage? Yeah, that's right.

That's right. Oh, my passage. Yeah. Like dead

serious. The transition was for my passage. It

wasn't for mine. I'm talking about Zacchaeus,

dude. I thought for sure. What the crap, Sean?

I teed you up. I'm going to have to cut so much

of this out for this even to make sense. Where

do I begin? So now you have choices of like,

do I cut out? Right after you teed it up, go

right into my Bible study? Or figure out how

much of this mess that I have created gets to

stay in? It's every week, dude. This is nothing

special. So speaking of the purple book, I actually

want to start us off on the very first day of

the purple book, which means we are going to

July 1st. Perfect. So, yeah, so July 1st, there's

two passages, Matthew 20, 20 through 28, Mark

10, 35 through 45. Obviously, the passages go

together. There are some slight differences in

the passage, but instead, I just want to focus

on just the Mark account and look at what we

can learn there. And so it's an interesting passage

where, quite honestly, two of the disciples say

something. Make it outrageous for Christ. And

then the other disciples respond wildly, and

then all the time Jesus is being Jesus, be like...

Old humans. And loves on them and responds in

an incredible way. We're really grateful for

Christ's character in this. Oh, my God. Because,

like, dude, as we read this, and I think you

should read the whole text. I'm going to read

the passage. Yeah, I'm going to do it. Dude,

I see myself in every character of this story

other than Jesus sometimes. Isn't that how it

is? Yes. I mean, the majority of the time when

we read scripture. In fact, I feel like if we

ever feel like we are. the Jesus character or

the hero character of the story. Most of the

time we need to some self reflection. I think

we can align with them a little. That's why I

said most of the time, if it's most of the time,

like you got to realize like, okay, there's like,

am I being honest with myself? Although like,

like, reframing that a little though like even

the like the major like mountaintop characters

of scripture all of them have like oh darn moments

like where they completely just completely wreck

whatever is going on where they make huge mistakes

seriously yeah seriously yeah so thankful the

lord leaves those in there exactly that's a proof

incident. Like, like as a tangent, that's one

of the proofs that I see in scripture for the

veracity of scripture, like for the truth of

the, of the narrative and all that stuff. Cause

if you're writing a holy text, your main characters

don't make mistakes. No. If you're, if you're

coming up with something like, like from a human

perspective, you want them to be as squeaky clean

as possible. And it's like, the Lord's like,

nah, dude, this is how this actually went down.

And I'm the only perfect one in this story for

a reason. Exactly. And interestingly enough,

the two main characters is James and John. Yep.

So let's talk about what you just said, right?

James and John. The inner circle of Jesus. Sons

of Thunder, baby. Major characters among the

disciples. And you've got these two guys, and

they're called out by name for saying some wild

stuff. Yes. These guys saw the transfigured Jesus

on the mountain. Let's just look at John and

talk about not only John is an author of the

New Testament, not only with the Gospels, but

he also threw in some other books there as well

that have a little bit of significance. Undertone,

undertone, undertone. And yet we are seeing them

approach Jesus, which, like you just said, this

should be left out. If we were trying to make

these guys be like, hey, these are the guys you

need to follow for this new religion, leave this

part out, right? But the Bible doesn't do that.

And I love it. So yeah, we've talked about it.

Let's get into it. Starting in verse 35 of chapter

10 in the book of Mark. James and John, the sons

of Zebedee, approached him and said, Teacher.

So approached him, they approached Jesus. Teacher,

we want you to do whatever we ask of you. What

do you want me to do for you? Wow. He asked them.

They answered him, allow us to sit at your right.

and at your left in your glory. Jesus said to

them, you don't know what you're asking. Are

you able to drink the cup I drink or to be baptized

with the baptism I am baptized with? We are able,

they told him. Jesus said to them, you will drink

the cup I drink, and you will be baptized with

the baptism I am baptized with. But to sit at

my right or left is not mine to give. Instead,

it is for those for whom it has been prepared.

When the ten disciples heard this, they began

to be indignant. There's a word we looked at

last week. Indignant with James and John. Jesus

called them over and said to them, you know.

that those who are regarded as rulers of the

Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high

positions act as tyrants over them. But it is

not so among you. On the contrary, whoever wants

to become greatest among you will be your servant.

And whoever wants to be first among you will

be a slave to all, for even the Son of Man. did

not come to be served, but to serve and to give

his life as a ransom for many. All right, so

there's some interesting things going on here.

And first off, in Mark's recording, this is not

the first time that the disciples have had a

similar argument. If you go back just one chapter

in Mark chapter 9, there's a story of the disciples.

Mark 9 · chapter mention

No one's named in this story, but the disciples

are arguing about who is the greatest. And so...

There seems to be a bit of a theme here with

the disciples. Once again, we're seeing their

worldly mindset, even as they follow Jesus. And

they're here, and they come up to Jesus. And

even how they phrase this question is just wild

to me. Like to say, teacher, we want you to do

whatever. We ask you. Because it's like a two

-part scheme. Because if Jesus says yes to question

one, then he's got to do question two. Yes. Yes.

And even just that question right there. Yeah.

Jesus' response, man. It's like, okay, what do

you want me to do for you? There's care and compassion

for his children. He's like, all right, let me

see this played out. Even though he knows what

they're about to ask. Exactly. It's like, I want

you to say this, because this is about... this

is the learning lesson here. Go ahead, ask me

what it is. And they answered, allow us to sit

at your right hand and at your left in your glory.

So here's what's interesting as I was reading

this is really they're asking for a position

of authority in his kingdom, right? He had just

finished talking about, what's so wild is he

just finished talking about like his death. They're

on their way. They're walking into Jerusalem.

If you pick it up in verse 32 and Jesus literally

just said, hey, by the way, we're going in Jerusalem

and I'm going to be here. handed over, condemned

to death. They're going to spit on me. They're

going to mock me. They're going to flog me. They're

going to kill me. But in three days, I'm going

to rise again. So can I sit at your right hand

and left hand? I mean, that's literally what

just happened, right? It's like they just completely...

But also we know that whenever Jesus talks about

his death, the disciples don't get it. Right.

It doesn't clock for them. Yeah. And so whether

that is a Holy Spirit thing of... blocking their

understanding until the time is right for them

you know we're not sure but definitely we see

here like they had something else on their mind

which i've definitely done as well where someone's

having a conversation with me but i'm thinking

about the thing i want to say to them next yeah

and i'm not fully tracking with what they're

saying and then i end up looking really really

dumb because i just said something that really

didn't go along with what just happened with

them and so maybe that's what happening either

way they just uh man, their timing here is crazy.

But yeah, what were you going to say? Well, so

what's interesting is that, so you're right.

Jesus is like right before this directly talking

about death, burial, resurrection. And so the

thing that stands out to me, they ask about it

in, they ask for their roles in glory. Yes. And

so like there's, is there some kind of understanding

of what's going on, but not really, but I don't,

I don't, I don't know, you know? Yeah. So I,

I spent a little bit of time reading a single

commentary, just kind of getting some background

on this. And the guy that wrote the commentary

had an interesting thought on this right here.

Allow us to sit at your right hand and your left

hand in glory. And he said that as Jews, they've

been under Roman oppression for so long, and

they've been wanting to get out from under that.

But here we almost see them having the same attitude

of they want to be in the position of Rome. They

want to be in the position of authority. It's

like, hey, it's now like, well, what position,

how can we rule over other people? How can we

be the ones that are leading the kingdom? Which

kind of makes sense when you then get to see

how Jesus compares their attitude to how Gentiles

lord over people. That's a good parallel. And

so I think that's why the commentator kind of

went with that. But I want to talk about Jesus'

response for a second. For sure. Because once

again, teaching moment here. but he uses some

symbolic language in their culture. They would

have understood, but we just translate it word

for word, essentially, right? And so it says,

you don't know what you're asking. Are you able

to drink the cup? I drink. And so that was known,

that phrase was known to be talking about suffering,

right? And so the one for baptized, though, I

think trips people up because we think of spiritual

baptism, but really what Jesus is talking about

is literally what the word means, and that's

to be plunged or to be... What's the word I'm

looking for? Dunked. Dunked. There we go. Thank

you. And so really what he's saying here, literally

he's saying, are you willing to be submerged

into suffering for me? Right? He's not talking

about actual baptism. He's talking about being

so heavily in suffering. Yeah. And that's what

they would have heard, right? For us, we have

to interpret it. Okay. But they're not doing

that. They're just hearing Jesus say, all right,

James, John. are you willing to suffer immeasurably

for me? And then, of course, they have this response,

and they said, you know. We are able. We got

this. We're able to do that. And I find that

interesting because I really find it's like one

of those, I really believe it's one of those

responses of like they don't really realize what

they're saying. They're like, oh, yeah, we got

this. You know, it's kind of like that macho

response. And then what is really interesting.

And what happens next is that Jesus confirms

it. He's like, oh, you are ready? Well, guess

what? You actually are going to suffer a lot.

And we know from church history that James and

John, in fact, all of the disciples, in fact,

I believe it's every disciple but John, according

to church history, was martyred for their faith.

And then John, we know that he was cast out onto

the island of Patmos, but he was tortured. And

so they all, They so were submerged in suffering

for their faith. And it's interesting. Both James

and John's sufferings were very different. So

James was martyred early in terms of the church.

I Googled this as you were talking because I

was thinking along the lines of them and their

suffering too. James was martyred maybe 10, 15

years after Jesus resurrected and left. So he

only had a little bit of time before he... paid

the price of martyrdom. Dude, John, it was like

another 40 years from where he was, you know?

And so like, even though that cup of suffering

was the same, it was different for both of the

guys. Yeah. And so here's what's interesting

too. Verse 41. When the ten disciples heard this,

they began to be indignant with James and John.

So here's the interesting thing. So the disciples

weren't mad at what they said. Yeah. The disciples

were mad that they got to Jesus first. That's

what it means when it says that they began to

be indignant with James and John. Once again,

so it's not just James and John that have this

attitude of, oh, wait, who gets to sit at your

left and right? It's all of them. Once again,

Mark chapter 9, they were all discussing who's

Mark 9 · chapter mention

the greatest, and all of them are still dealing

with it. So Jesus is surrounded by these dudes,

acting like dudes, trying to figure out who is

the greatest still, who's going to be in the

seat of authority next to Jesus, and then you

get Jesus' response. Yeah. And once again, he

goes back, you know that those who are regarded

as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them.

So he says, guys, you're acting like lost people.

You're acting like Gentiles. You're acting like

the Romans. I mean, imagine if that's how they

heard it, right? They're like, hey, you know

these guys that you hate that rule over you?

Guess what you're doing right now? You're acting

like them, right? But then in verse 43, but it's

not so among you. On the contrary. Whoever wants

to become greatest among you will be your servant.

And so Jesus is reminding them that what it means

to be a great leader. It's like, hey, all of

you can be leaders. You will be leaders, but

you're going to lead from a place of humility

and servanthood. And that's the lesson that Jesus

is teaching us today. And he starts with, and

it's his example, right? Verse 45, even the son

of man came not to be served, but to serve and

to give his life as a ransom. I mean, just think

about that, right? Yeah. So for even the son

of man, even God in human flesh, if anyone deserves

to be that person of authority or in that position

of ruling over, lording over, he says, that's

not why I came. No. Says. Right now I've come

as the lamb. Now the lion's going to come, but

right now it's the time for the lamb and I've

come to be a servant. Yeah. So what do you think

that means, not just for you and me sitting here

with the title of pastor, but for anybody who

is a Christian? Because I think there's a model

of Christian leadership here that extends outside

of Jesus and the disciples to anybody who would

claim the name of Christ. That servant leadership.

How do we differentiate I'm leading as a servant

from I do everything for everybody and everybody

else watches? I think it's a matter of how you

communicate with people. Yeah. And also the actions

that you take. Are you leading from behind a

desk on a phone? Or are you with your people,

showing them, being the example? Because that's

what Jesus is doing. Jesus showed them. He had

them follow him. Like I said, they're on their

way to Jerusalem. He has shown them how he reacts

with the Pharisees. He's shown them how he reacts

to the blind. He's shown them how he reacts to

the leper. He's shown them how he reacts to and

how he talks to the leaders of the synagogue.

And so he has been the example through his actions.

And that's what speaks loudest. And so for us,

as Christians, as pastors, our actions is what

speaks loudest. It's very easy. So going back

to us as pastors, it's easy for people to hear

us from a stage. from behind a pulpit with a

microphone for us around our ear, standing behind

a plexiglass podium and speaking to people. But

what is really going to matter is also what we

do off that stage. Yeah. And so what I hear you

saying is that it's not about the big public

actions. Where servant leadership comes in, it's

about the lifestyle that you lead. Yeah, and

this is one of the reasons that we've partnered

with Student Leadership University. Okay. You

know, taking it full circle. One of their mottos

is we want to teach students to lead from the

feet of Jesus. And so their motto, their thought

process is that every person has leadership capacity.

Leadership capacity, meaning some are meant to

lead over five, some are meant to lead over thousands.

There's leadership capacity. And that's good.

Yes, every person has leadership capacity, but

every person, and every person is called to be

a leader doesn't have to be the one with the

loudest in the room and hold the microphone.

That doesn't mean you're a leader just because

you're the loudest in the room. Heavens no. And

so they're teaching our students who they are

in. Christ so that they can become servant leaders.

And that's what I love about the organization.

Dude, that's awesome. You know what other thing

this text kind of makes me think of? So Jesus

sets himself up as the example for service and

leadership in this text, right? But often we

see the things that happen to Jesus and the things

that Jesus goes through are then repeated by

his followers. Of course, Like Jesus promises

this to James and John, right? But I think that

the Christian leadership ethic for us is the

exact same way. Think about it, dude. As we seek

to be a servant, as we seek to die to ourselves,

eventually we finish our race. We receive our

final promotion to heaven, and that is when he

glorifies us. I mean, dude, the book of 1 Thessalonians

are crazy for some of the things that they say.

We will judge the angels. Our servant leadership

here is in part to equip us for whatever role

he has for us in glory. I think it's one of the

things that shocked me a lot when I was studying

those books is that our work isn't over when

we stop drawing breath. It's that we're being

prepared for something new and better. Now, of

course, the way that we interface with work is

different because we're not under the creation

curse anymore, but it's Jesus who exalts us.

After we have been shaped by servanthood, then

he appoints us to a greater role. And I think

that to some degree, man, we all drink from this

cup and experience that baptism. Absolutely.

Suffering is... as general as it could be because

everybody suffers. And it is as specific as anything

else because it is down to how you suffer and

what you've experienced. Like in times where

I've gotten to talk with people who are hurting.

Not as a pastor, but as a friend, as just somebody

there. There have been times where they've shared

something with me and I've experienced something

worse in that area. And they're like, oh, well,

I can't even talk to you about this. I'm like,

no, no, no, no, no. This is not a race. The key

here, I think, is that when we... drink from

that cup, recognizing that he has drunk from

it first and that we're sharing in Christ's suffering.

And so he walks through those things with us

to shape us into his image. I love it, man. That's

a great thought. Thanks. I think the good reminder

as we begin to land this plane on this episode

is that suffering looks different for everybody.

Just because someone else is suffering might

seem... quote -unquote, worse than yours doesn't

nullify the suffering that you're going through

for Jesus or the suffering you're going through.

And it's a reminder that a call to be a Christian

is not a call to have a perfect life. Christ

says that we're going to take up our cross and

follow Him. And so we should come expecting to

realize that there's going to be troubles in

life, but there's no place I'd rather be than

suffering for Jesus. Yeah. And in that suffering,

he meets us and he shapes us to be more like

himself. And so as hard as that suffering is,

it's not purposeless. Nope, not at all. And like

you said, I believe that there is purpose on

this side of eternity and also the next. Absolutely.

So man, this has been a good conversation today.

Yeah, it's been a good conversation. I think

we started off a little wild. I'm excited to

see how you edit the wildness of this episode.

But man, we got into some good stuff. Yeah, it's...

landing the plane on something that touches all

of us is something that is good and encouraging

to me too. Yep. And I think, you know, I was

going to bring back the chant, but I don't think

it's appropriate right now. So we're just going

to say I've been Sean Griffin. And I've been

Ben Smith. And we love you guys. Have a great

week. We'll see you later. See you later, pursuers,

dudes, and dudettes. Pursuing Jesus is a ministry

of Memorial Baptist Church in Norwood, North

Carolina.