Engage In Business Until I Return

I got joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart. Where?

Down in my heart. No, no, where? Down in my heart.

So you've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in

your heart? Down in my heart. But how long is

it going to be there? Oh, to stay. And are you

so happy? I'm so happy. So very happy. So very

happy. You've got the love of Jesus in your heart.

It's in my heart. So you're very happy. So is

it just me, or does that actually sound like

really circumstantial? I feel like, so I think

that that's an interesting, I mean, so like we

all grew up, we didn't all grow up. I didn't

grow. I have still not grown up. Let's just,

let's be honest. This is a, this is part of the

reason we're filming a podcast is that we were

trying to get in live action. This is actually

like the, what is that old movie with that old

dude who like his life is a TV show and he doesn't

realize it. The Truman Show. This is the Truman

Show. Oh, God, you just referred to the Truman

Show as that old show. This is the Truman Show

for your spiritual development. Yes, yes. That

very, very old, extremely old movie. Yes. When

did it come out? Like, what, 80 -something? I

don't know. I'm pretty sure it came out in the

2000s. I'm pretty sure it had a two at the beginning

of when it came out. I might've been alive for

this. Hold on. I'm going to give it. Oh my God,

dude, that's actually a really like good movie.

Like it's a good surface level movie, but at

the same time, like when you start to do like

introspective on that movie, like it gets to

like, it's a good movie. It's a good movie. Oh,

so the Truman show is PG. So you're still in

the clear. Yeah, we can still, we can still,

we keep talking about this movie, but yeah, no,

I am one year younger than that movie. What year

did it come out? It came out in 98. Oh no, it

does have a 19 at the beginning. And so in all

fairness, like I'm probably less than a year

older than that movie because I'm January of

99. So I'm so sorry to everybody out there who

was born before January of 99. Because time existed.

Time existed, yeah. But no, there's two distinct

directions that we take here. One, I think in

a very real sense, the Pursuing Jesus podcast

is us, Truman, showing our spiritual development.

In that, so I haven't seen the movie, so I actually

don't know. I may be spitting completely off

here, but we're doing spiritual growth in public.

There have been things that I have learned on

this podcast that I did not know before. Um,

and, and, and like you shared with me, there've

been things that like you didn't know before,

or like I've been encouraged by things that I've

heard on this podcast as we've been putting this

together. Like, so like the process of discussing

like our own spiritual experience in the text

is spiritually formative for us. And so like,

that's kind of one of the reasons I feel like

we're doing this is to, is not just like to equip

our people, but also for them just to see what

it looks like for two dudes to sit down and try

to follow Jesus in the same room. And you know

what I love about that is, and it's one of the

things that is deep in my personality of how

I preach and what I do with my students and even

on Sunday mornings, and that is I am constantly

trying to make sure that I'm not on a pedestal.

And I don't even mean from a spiritual aspect.

I mean, like, I want people to know, like, I

am human, right? I am not set apart. spiritually

in a way because I am a pastor. You don't have

an extra dose of the Holy Spirit. No, exactly.

And so that's one of the things. And that's why

I love using my own personal stories. I love

using my own failures. Right now I'm writing

my sermon that I'm going to be giving tomorrow

night to our students, and I'm opening with a

really bad story of when I deserve to get beat

up in school because of my mouth. It makes me

look bad. I want to do those things. I want people

to know, hey, I'm real. I'm a real person. I

can relate to what's going on. I'm an idiot too.

Theologically, I think the word that Jesus uses

is sheep, not idiot. But I get the point that

you're trying to come across with. He also uses

the word fool. He does, but he does not call,

I don't know. That's neither here nor there,

and I'm not going to fight you. It's a different

context. It is a different context. I was meeting

with a guy who has followed Jesus a lot longer

than I have, relatively recently. And he is often

telling me, like, Ben, God wants to meet you

in the present. Not in the past. Although he's

there, you're not. Not in the future. He's there,

you're not. And so the only place that you can

genuinely... meet God is exactly where you're

sitting in that room, but also in terms of the

focus of your heart. And so I feel like some

of what you and I do here in Pursuing Jesus is

we engage with the text in the present. To the

best of our abilities, of course, we talk about

what we're going to talk about beforehand a little,

not much, but performative spiritual. growth

is not spiritual growth. And so for this to be

really be of any value for me personally, I have

to come at this with the real Ben Smith, not

necessarily with like the polished pastor Ben

Smith. 100%. I mean, if this is truly going to

be a pursuing Jesus podcast and the two hosts

are not pursuing Jesus, it's not going to work.

No, it'd be pursuing tacos for you, honestly.

So there's this new taco place in Albemarle that

I really want to try that I've been hearing about.

It's located in a tent, not in a building, and

it's on the corner where... Man, forget food

laws. I know. I want to go try this place, and

hopefully I might be trying it tonight if it's

there. I heard it's one of those things where

maybe they're there, maybe they're not, if they're

set up. So yes, I do like to pursue tacos. I

am literally trying to pursue this place tonight,

but at the same time. More importantly, I need

to be pursuing Jesus. And that's the heart of

why we sit down, why we put headphones on, and

we sit in front of these mics, is as we're doing

our daily devotionals separately, and then we

get to come together and like, hey, man, this

is what I learned from Jesus this week. And we

get to do that with microphones and with our

church family. I hope that they get to learn

from that as well. I think that practice is something

that we have to cultivate, though. I think there's

a natural impulse in us to want to form an image

or to hide who we really are or what we're really

thinking. Dude, that goes back to our first grandparents,

Adam and Eve. The first thing they do when they

realize that they have royally messed up is hide

in the garden from God and sow fig leaves to

cover their nakedness. But it is only through

being seen as we really are that we can relate

to God that way. Otherwise, we're not bringing

the real us, and he's not shaping the real us.

But it is something different to do in front

of an audience. Oh, 100%. Even though this is

audio only, still, we could sit here, we could

be fake, and we could do those things. It's a

discipline. But I would rather... I think our

church is going to learn more, and then we ourselves

are going to grow more the more honest we are.

100%. 100%. Dude, man. Well, hey, so I guess

we're not going to bash children's Christian

worship songs anymore, so that's probably a good

thing. We'll move on from that. We'll save that

for another day. That'll be another topic, like

songs we grew up singing. Let's look at the theology

of this. That's an interesting question that

I'm not going to pursue hardcore today, but as

a worship pastor, The songs that I put in the

mouth of our congregation are so important. Our

people and me are going to remember those easier

than even the best sermon sometimes. There are

certain moments that affect us for sure, but

when you give something pitch and melody and

meter and rhythm. It gives it more the ability

to memorize much easier. You remember those things.

If your songs aren't actually accurate to what

the Bible says or to the reality of the Christian

life, you could end up in trouble because you

start to believe that stuff when you sing it.

It's very true. Yeah, it is. So I think we're

going to start opening up our pursuing Jesus

devotionals. Sean gradually shepherding me in

the direction our conversation needs to go. Thanks,

G. So what day are you looking at there, buddy?

Oh, man. I'm looking at July 4th, Rockets, Red

Glare, and All. And this is Luke 19, 11 through

28. So this is a tremendously difficult parable,

or it was to me initially when I first came to

it. Maybe just the mindset I came into it. So

this is a fat chunk of text. I'm going to read

it anyways. Just go for it. Let's just run it.

So this is Luke 19, 11 through 28. And as they

heard these things, side note, this comes directly

after the story of Zacchaeus. The wee little

man? The wee little man was he. I mean, there's

a kid's song there. Keep moving, keep moving.

As they heard these things, he, who is Jesus,

proceeded to tell a parable because he was near

Jerusalem and because they supposed that the

kingdom of God was to appear immediately. He

said, therefore, a nobleman went into a far country

to receive for himself a kingdom, then return.

Calling 10 of his servants, he gave them 10 minas

and said to them, engage in business until I

come. But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation

after him saying, we do not want this man to

reign over us. And when he returned, having received

the kingdom, he ordered the servants to whom

he had given money to be called to him. that

he might know what they had gained by doing business.

First came before him, saying, Lord, your mina

has made ten minas more. And he said to him,

Well done, good servant. Because you have been

faithful in very little, you shall have authority

over ten cities. What? And the second came, saying,

Lord, your mina has made five minas. And he said

to him, And you are to be over five cities. And

then another came saying, Lord, here is your

mina, which I kept laid away in a handkerchief.

For I was afraid of you because you are a severe

man. You take what you did not deposit. You reap

what you did not sow. And he said to him, I condemn

you with your own words, you wicked servant.

You knew that I was a severe man taking what

I did not deposit and reaping what I did not

sow. Why then did you put my money in the bank?

And at my coming, I might have collected it with

interest. And he said to those who stood by,

take the mina from him and give it to the one

who has 10 minas. And they said to him, Lord,

he already has 10 minas. I tell you that everyone

who has more will be given, but to the one who

has not, even what he has will be taken away.

But as for these enemies of mine who did not

want me to reign over them, bring them here and

slaughter them before me. Whoa. Sean, what is

your overall vibe or impression when you come

to this text? Just looking at the idea of, I

think people are given different amounts from

the Lord. And are you being faithful with what

the Lord has given you? I mean, there is some

definite different ways that we're going to be

able to look at this and personalize this text.

So yeah, tell me why you chose this one. So I

zeroed in. So I feel like kind of the climax

of the story, like the... big boss battle, you

know, in terms of action movie things is where

the master comes back and he's kind of getting

account for the different people, the people

have given, he's given money to, and then he

talks with the wicked servant. Now, when we read

a text, like sometimes the authors of scripture

are kind to kind of give us a purpose statement

before or after. Right. And so like, like in

verse 11, Jesus tells us parable because he's

near Jerusalem. And because the Jews suppose

that the King, And you see that further on because

he's about to walk into Jerusalem and they're

going to say, Hosanna, Hosanna. God save us.

God save us. They're going to call him the son

of David. They will label him as the Messiah.

And so partially the text tells us that Jesus

is confronting their preconceived ideas about

what it looks like for God to come reign in his

kingdom. But kind of with that context in mind,

I zeroed in on a couple of things from... really

the master's response to the servants. So one,

the first kind of truth thing that stuck out

to me is the requirement for the servants was

not based off of their results. Now hear me out

here, because you see like these guys make money,

they're praised, this guy doesn't, and he's not

praised. But look at the very first thing that

the nobleman says in verse 13. He gave them 10

minus and he said, engage in business until I

come. Yeah. Uh, dude never gives a goal in mind.

No. All he says is be active. Yeah. And I think

that's why the first two people that are addressed

in this text, um, like I think that's why they

get a, Hey, nice job. Like you did something.

You, you engaged with the call that I put on

your life. Um, And the second piece here is like,

dude, the equipment that they are given is not

at all consistent with the reward for their faithfulness.

Not at all. Because look at that. So I looked

it up. A mina is like three months wage or whatever.

And so not a small sum of money by any means.

But I think that like... Just from my own budget

and household finance experience, dealing with

three months of my wages is in no way consistent

with literally running tensities. No, exactly.

No, not at all. But, I mean, the whole premise

here of being faithful in little correlates to

the Lord giving you much more to be faithful

for, I think is something that we carry into

our daily lives. The mundane, the day -to -day,

the things that we do each day feel meaningless

sometimes to me. But like one of the things that

this text reminded me of is that it is in the

very mundane day -to -day that God prepares us

for the big. But I think we expect the big things,

the rule over 10 cities or even five, without

having engaged in the mundane. And that was a

big application point that I drew out for myself

of like, Ben, how are you doing with your day

-to -day? Your day -to -day walk with Jesus in

your quiet time, yes. But also just your day

-to -day, like, are you involving the Lord in

the other things? Like when you set down your

Bible, when you close it and you start your day.

on your drive in as you're here in the office,

as you're talking with your friend on the phone,

as you're bugging Sean in his office, like, like

how am I shepherding the mundane things of my

life? I really, I really like where you went

with that. And when I look at this, you know,

so many, so many times I think people, People

want the ten cities, like you said. They want

the big thing first. And that varies person to

person what that thing is. And that's what I'm

saying. It depends on your desires, your goals,

and all that stuff. But a lot of times people

can look at whatever that is and they think,

like, this is what I deserve. The worldly example

I think about, one of the things I remember being

told is, like, you know, I've seen people. that

whenever they move out, Maybe even when they

get married, they think that they're automatically

going to be able to go out and get the house

that their parents have. Yeah. It's like, no,

it took them 30 years to get to the point where

they were able to get to this level of house.

And so for some people in that context, they

think that, oh, no, I'm going to get out of here.

And it's like, no, no, no, there's work involved

behind the scenes. And so really even there,

I mean, there is some worldly application as

well to this passage. But when I look at it,

And I look at this, and I love how you pointed

out at the very beginning, in verse 13, he told

them to engage in business until I come back.

Yes. That's the lens you have to interpret the

rest of this passage from. Each of them has been

given a different amount. Yeah. But like you

said, there's not a goal specifically for each

of them. It's just like, hey, this is what you've

been given. You are responsible for what you've

been given. Now go engage in business. Yeah.

Right? So I think there is something where we

have each been given different spiritual responsibilities.

Yes. This goes way beyond money. Yes. No, absolutely.

And here's where I think in our context we need

to understand that because... This was on July

4th. We live in a country that we just celebrated

our 250th anniversary, our 250th anniversary

of some incredible freedoms that we've been given

living in this country. And because we have those

governmental freedoms, there are spiritual freedoms

that we also have that other countries and other

Christians don't have. So we have been given

more. I believe that we have been given more.

We have more access to not only the Bible, but

theology. We've got freedom of speech. We've

got the ability to go almost anywhere and share

the gospel. We have been given 10 minus. I mean,

just in this country, we have a big spiritual

responsibility. And so now, knowing that, That

I feel like we, just because of where our location

is and the freedom we have, we have a very large

spiritual responsibility. The question is now

like, oh, okay. When we realize that, how much

more do we think of, okay, what business of the

Lord am I engaging in? Yeah. No, that is a great

question. I mean, because look at the end of

the passage. I tell you, everyone who has more

will be given, but the one who has not even what

he has will be taken away. Yeah. I'm not editing

that out. Sean threw his bottle across the room

and it clunked on the floor and he knows better.

Like he knows better that I would have to edit

that out. He made eye contact while he did it

like a child. And so I'm going to keep that in.

I hope he picked it up. That was good stuff.

Wow, that threw off the conversation. Dang it.

There's two truths here, though. Please get us

back on track. One, like you and I have been

heavily emphasizing, and I'm going to beat this

drum until the day that I die, dude, because

performance -based faith is the enemy. If you

are judged by your success or failure, then that

is not the gospel. If you are judged by how good

you are or how you ought to be, that is anti

-gospel. And you are trying to make up for in

your own effort what Jesus has already died for.

And God is not going to honor that. You may have

earthly success, but at the end of the day, that

will burn in the fire. Yes, it will. But here's

the other piece. The king is coming. Yes, he

is. Look at the beginning. This nobleman goes

into the far country to receive a kingdom. Obviously,

Jesus is using this as an analogy for himself

and the people of Israel. Yes. They send a delegation

after him saying, we don't want this man to rule

over me, which is what they did a week later

when they crucified him. But, dude, the seeds

of that are in all of our hearts. Yeah. That

is the thought process of... the wicked servant.

Because I think we take what he says is true.

The wicked servant is like, oh, you're a hard

man and you take money you didn't deposit and

you reap what you did not sow. No. It's all already

the king's. And so his mindset is just warped.

It's bent on his own good. It's bent on his own

comfort. It's bent on his own ownership, except

for he's... Nothing is his. Well, isn't this

exactly the same principle that we're looking

at in Galatians on Sunday morning right now?

Yes. And that is anytime you begin to add anything

to the gospel, anything you add to the gospel

is going to distort the gospel, and it's no longer

going to have the power it once did. Because

if you add anything to the work of Christ, you

are diluting the power of God. Well, a false

gospel is no gospel at all, dude. No. Because

if, I mean, Paul says it in Romans, like, if

we could do this ourselves, then Christ died

for nothing. Nothing, yeah. And so, but dude,

for those of us... As we labor, it's so hard

to be a Christian sometimes. Like the day -to

-day mundane that we were talking about, that

can get dry. That can get difficult. Being a

Christian costs us. I think in different parts

of the world where they don't have the same freedoms

that they are, people die because they take the

name of Jesus. But so for us, the notion that

our works, that our salvation, our standing before

God is not based off of our own efforts. or our

own success, rather. It's based off of our faithfulness.

But the second one, man, the king is coming back.

And so while we labor, we know that Jesus himself

is already on his way. Recognizing whether the

rapture comes tomorrow or in 2 ,000 years, all

of this that we're experiencing today, the good

and the bad, are part of his plan to redeem his

people and to restore his creation. Yeah, man,

I love it. That's so good. There's one more thing

I want to ask you about. What do you make of

that verse 26? Anyone who has more will be given,

but from the one who has not even more, or even

what he has will be taken away. That's a weird

phrase to end this with, particularly then going

on to say slaughter the enemies of mine who did

not want me to. I tell you that to everyone who

has, more will be given. And from the one who

does not have, that's the phrase that I'm stuck

on right now. I mean, you don't have it. Even

what he does have will be taken away. I'm trying

to figure out what he's talking about. I'm very

confused. I feel like it could refer to like

genuine belief or genuine relationship with God.

Because if you do, at the end of days, like I'm

presuming Jesus is talking about his return,

right? If you do have a walk with Christ, more

will be given to you. We see the example in the

text, like more responsibility, right? The very

beginning of verse 26, I tell you that everyone

who has, more will be given. Like that part.

I think there's very good correlation to what's

going on here, right? And just me reading from

the cuff right now, and from the one who does

not have, okay? So they don't have. This is even

what he does have will be taken away. So are

we talking about this? is this like someone's

heart's going to be more hardened because they're

not pursuing? Where are you at with this? I think

that this is someone who does not have a relationship

with God. It sounds like someone, and from the

one who does not have, so does not have salvation,

does not have Jesus, right? Even what he does

have will be taken away. You know what I think

he does have? His works. I think those are the

good things that he did trying to justify himself

before God. I think that those can be the things

that they hold as important to things that they've

strived for for their whole lives that ultimately

didn't have spiritual value. So this could be

like the guy who buried his coin because that

was his work. Yes. He's like, hey, I'm going

to protect what you've given me by doing not

what you asked. I'm not going to engage in business,

but I'm still doing something physical. but it's

not what you wanted. It's interesting to think

that you can go your whole life in an effort

to protect something, but if it's not what you've

actually been asked to do with it, then you can

still be doing the wrong thing. And so I think

that's where I'm struggling right now, and I'm

trying to figure out, so from the one who does

not have, I mean, the phrase right there lends

itself to believe this is someone that's not

a believer. Yes. Can you be a believer and still

do Christian things? From the outside perspective,

yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, you can make it look

like you have it all together. There's a lot

of things you can do based on your mind. Yeah.

You have the knowledge of what is the right thing

to do. Or even just your desire to be justified.

Yeah. And that's something like you have, like,

I think that I've met some people that are extremely

moral people. Yeah. Right? And there's no Christian

foundation to it, but they try to do what is

right. That is just built in them to do what

is right. And so here, even what he does have

will be taken away. Yeah. even though you've

tried to dig your own hole for the Lord, that's

not what he asked you to do. And so that's not

going to benefit you in any way. So it's an interesting

passage, man. It reminds me of 1 Corinthians

3, just kind of the idea that we're talking about

here, where Paul kind of talks about each believer's

works and ministries. It's 1 Corinthians 3, verse

1 Corinthians 3:10

10. I looked it up while you were talking. And

it says, according to the grace given to me,

this is Paul talking, like a skilled master builder,

I laid a foundation and somebody else is building

upon it. He's kind of fleshing out the idea that

like multiple different people can invest in

one person spiritually. Let each take care how

he builds upon it, that foundation. For no one

can lay a foundation other than that which is

laid, which is Jesus Christ. There's no other

rock this thing can get built on. Now, if anyone

builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious

stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will

become manifest for the day. In my text, the

day, that D is capitalized. So he's referring

to the day that Jesus comes back. We'll disclose

it because it will be revealed by fire. And the

fire will test what sort of work each one has

done. If the work that anyone has built on the

foundation survives, he will receive a reward.

If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer

loss, though he himself will be saved. But it

is only through fire. And so I think here the

conversation shifts maybe a little, and maybe

it doesn't. Maybe there's a point where this

could talk about somebody who knows Jesus and

somebody who doesn't. But I also see here the

person who has, right? There is some spiritual

something. But what that is will be taken away

in that if you're doing it by yourself without

Jesus, then you're not getting fed the way that

he intends you to. So going back to our text,

the person that is being referred to there at

the end, what do you think it takes for them?

to recognize their works are not working, that

they need the master. There are a couple of things

that come to mind. I'm reading a book. I don't

remember the name of the author. I'm not even

going to give him credit here. There are a couple

of things that come to mind. And I see this in

our context here in Stanley County. I don't have

anybody specific in mind. I'm not shooting shots,

but I am thinking of a category of people that

I come across frequently here who trust in their

Christian cultural heritage in a way that they

don't recognize they're not actually engaging

with Jesus. They focus exclusively on the outward

trappings of Christianity. Go to church, been

baptized, tithe. Mama and daddy were Christians.

Nana and Papa were Christians. This is just who

we are. And the way that they treat people who

may have come up in the church but who have not

shown any fruit and who haven't been there since

they were a child still focuses on the external.

Man, they really need to turn their life around

and get back in church. And it's like, dude,

you're still focused on your works. And so I

think asking those questions of like, what actually

matters to me about the Christian life? Is it

a set of traditions that I follow and the way

that I feel about me and God is hinged on how

often I've been to church or how regularly I

tune in on pursuing Jesus? Or do I recognize

that those external actions are a symptom of

an internal reality? Because I think that, listen,

this dude in our verses was a servant of the

master. But you see from the way that he talks

about the master's actions and from the rebellion

at the beginning of the verse that his heart

was not with the master. He was focusing on himself.

And that is one of the, going back to just our

culture, and I recognize, I've been here in Stanley

County for nine years, and I think it's not just,

I don't want to say it's symptomatic of, it's

not symptomatic of just this county. But Bible

Belt culture. Yeah. I mean, it really is. You

know, people look, we look at the Bible Belt,

and we are so culturally Christian that so many

times that's where it stops. Yeah. It stops with

your culture. You do things out of tradition,

and I believe that a lot of people are hurting

spiritually because of that. And perhaps have

false assurance of their rightness with God.

Oh, 100%. 100%. Even if you've prayed the sinner's

prayer as an eight -year -old and got baptized

as a nine -year -old, I have to wonder, going

back to the parable of the sower, like, are you

one of those people who got choked up by the

weeds, the cares of this world, or the devil

came and stole that word away? Because we see

from the book of James that the evidence of a

believer is the fruit. Yeah. Not the salvation

of the believer. Salvation is by grace through

faith alone. But because of what Christ does

in you, because of the Holy Spirit in you, we

see their fruit and their works. And this is

why I ended my sermon this past Sunday the way

I did, talking about my transformation. Yeah.

And I mentioned on Sunday that I don't have a

date, right? I don't have the date that... It

was this big Holy Spirit movement. For me, it

took time. It was over years. And sometime through

those years, man, I realized Jesus was Lord.

And how I know, because I remember at the beginning

feeling like, oh, I'm not saved because I don't

have a date, right? Yeah. But what I realized,

but no, I started to look at how I was being

transformed. My desires began to change, and

my desires were not changing to prove my love

for God. My desires were changing because I loved

God. And that is where I think people get tripped

up. So many people get stuck in cultural Christianity

because they're doing things to prove their love

for God instead of they're seeing a renewal of

their mind, as Paul says. and their desires are

changing because of the love they've experienced.

And that's how you realize there's fruit. And

I wonder if the, if it's, if, if a component

of this too, is that they're also thinking they've

done all they need to do to have to, to rather

than I'm doing what I need to do to prove that

I, that I love God or God's love for me. It's

like, no, dude, I'm good. I'm set. I'm set. But

like hearing you talk about your testimony, like

every time you bring it up, it reminds me of

Philippians. Like he who began to work in you

will bring it complete to completion in the day

of Jesus Christ. That's another one of those

passages where the day, the capital D is capitalized,

where Jesus comes back. It's like our spiritual

walk is not a one -time event. And I think that's

one of the things that we can treat our walk

as. Like I got saved, bam, donezo. I've done

what I need to do. And it's like, you've done

all that you needed to do to be saved, provided

that this leads to a lifelong relationship with

Jesus. If it doesn't, then I don't know if that's

a, I don't know if that was a genuine call to

salvation because there's not fruit there. If

the Holy Spirit isn't working in your life, like,

you know. And it's one of the, and all I can

speak of is from how the Holy Spirit has worked

in my life. And what I know and what I've experienced

is that the closer I get to Jesus, the more I

absolutely fall in love with Jesus and the more

I desire to represent him well in everything

I do. And that process is like the least linear

thing ever. It's like four steps forward, two

steps back, three steps back, one step forward.

I think that's the whole podcast in itself, like

quite honestly. Once again, going back to the

very beginning of... towards the beginning of

this podcast, of my desire to not paint myself

on a pedestal as a pastor. Facts. I want people

to know I tell stories of my past. I tell stories

now that I am still messing up. I am still, as

the Apostle Paul says, I am still being saved.

Yes. And that is the case for all of us. We're

all going to mess up. We're all on this journey.

But that's what I love about pursuing Jesus together,

is that's what the Christian faith is all about.

100%. Sean and I aren't sitting here like, oh

yeah, you're not saved and you're not saved and

you're not saved. I'm not the Holy Spirit. But

I would encourage anybody listening to this podcast,

and I think I'll land the plane here, ask the

Lord to examine your heart. Because I think he

really will show you. Yes, he will. Do I have

a living relationship with Jesus? Is it the fact

that I'm a Christian that drives my behavior?

Or does my daily walk with God inform what I

do and how I think and feel and function? We

can go a long way on willpower just to do stuff.

it's hard for us to change who we are under the

hood. And I think that's what that soul transformation

looks like. That's a good final thought, buddy.

Yeah. We all thank you for jumping in with us

here on this Pursuing Jesus episode. One of these

days, Sean, we're going to get to both texts.

You know, if we do, we do. If we don't. I think

we need feedback always. That's true. We're only

doing what we feel that our conversations are

just fluid and we do what we can. If you want

to hear us talk about more text instead of laboring

on number one, let us know. If you want to hear

us talk about more tacos, I would love to talk

more about tacos. Pursuing Tacos is going to

go up on our Patreon in a couple of weeks. All

right. Well, we love you guys. This has been

Pursuing Jesus. I'm Ben Smith. I am Sean Green.

And we will catch you later. Pursuing Jesus is

a ministry of Memorial Baptist Church in Norwood,

North Carolina. To learn more about our church,

please visit memorial4norwood .com.