Not Far from the Kingdom

What's up, Pursuing Jesus? Pursuers? Dudes and

duets? I... Listen, no, no, no, no. I think pursuers

is the word. Because I can't say dudettes. I

know. Listen, I love the idea. It was brought

to us. And I say dude a lot. In fact, I say dude

too much. Dude, Mr. Tuttle was my fault. I was

even having a serious conversation with someone.

They messaged me. And my first draft... Luckily,

it was my first draft and I didn't send it of

my text. But I was like, dude, I'm so sorry.

But it was like... What's wrong with that? When

I read it, it didn't sound appropriate because

this was like an older gentleman. Oh, I got you.

And I was like, dude. And I was like... I should

change that to sir or first name or something.

So, um, I use dude a lot. I mean that, I mean,

nineties kid, you know, early two thousands kid

dude is definitely very much high up. Yeah. You

know, it's so funny though. Talking, thinking

about that. Like I remember, I think back to

the slang that, that we used back then. So the

two big ones that I remember, like I used a lot,

which feels so stupid now. is one is it all does.

That's the bomb, the bomb, DA, the bomb. That's

the bomb because that that was big in the nineties

and that that was not cringe back then. No, that

was like, no, that was like you said that with

your chest. Yes, but then the other one that

I used a lot was once again, you got to get the

pronunciation correct, but a but a not butter.

It's the word butter, but b u t t a Butta. So

it's something smooth. That's butta. Oh, dude,

I've never heard that one before. Butta was a

big 90s word. As I was coming up through middle

school and high school, this was like classic

Snapchat dog emoji era. You know, like the dog

face where everybody was doing it. So like turnt

and lit and things being on fleek. That was what

we said when we thought we were so cool. On fleek.

That was one that annoyed me as a youth pastor.

I had a youth leader ask me if I had some turnt

in my fleek. What does that even mean? That is

a great youth pastor to use that in that way.

For sure. I think a penchant for malapropism

is a clear... What did you call me? I'll say

it again. A penchant for malapropism. You're

going to have to define this. Using funny words

the wrong way. Okay, what word did you say to

say that? It was two words. A penchant for malapropism.

A penchant. I don't even know what that means.

You have like a disposition. A disposition or

a proclivity towards. Okay, a penchant for malapropism.

Malaproposition? Malapropism. A proposition?

I hate that you just messed with me on this podcast.

Come on, dude. You know what? Forget it. We're

moving on. That just made me so happy. I feel

like there's only been one word that I feel like

has stayed. Not in terms of words that have come

back. People say rad and groovy again, and they

say vibe again, which is from the 60s or whatever.

But one word that I have consistently heard stay

in people's vocabulary is yeet. Not like the

way that kids would say it all the time, like,

yeah, you know, but like, oh, yeah, I'm going

to eat over there and do this. Yeah, he yeeted

the ball across the room. I feel like that one

stayed since it has shown up. Yeah, it's I've

even used because that's that word is way after

my time. Yeah, a hundred percent, but I've even

been able to use that word and it didn't sound

cringy because it became it started to become.

It's a verb. Yeah. Yeet's a fun one. I like that

one. Well, speaking of fun and good and hearing

absolute nonsense past office slang, what are

you going to be doing two or three days after

this podcast releases, Sean? Man, so the church

knows our people. They know. They know. It's

been a crazy summer. It's been a crazy summer.

And so recap before we move forward. We started

out the summer with Mission Serve. Mission Serve.

Salute to South Carolina. Incredible. That's

the big one. Shout out to my man, Luke Berry.

Over 50 people there. Luke Berry, construction

coordinator, extraordinaire, amazing, amazing

guy. And just the church that we hang out with.

They're awesome. And then we had VBS the next

week. It feels like a long time ago. Then I went

to SLU 101 in Orlando, Florida. Smaller group

of kids started the SLU 101 journey, took a week

off, was in the office finally. Praise the Lord.

And then last week I was in SLU 201, had a great

time. Even smaller group of kids, but man, that

one. Even though it was a smaller group of kids,

I was definitely more tired from that one just

because it was 6 a .m. to 9 .30, 10 o 'clock

every day, Monday through Thursday. I have an

alternate theory about that. What's that? I think

you were tired because for once in your life,

you actually wore a tie. I did. I wore a tie

twice. A jacket and a tie twice. Wow. But then

also with that, we were in a... That's youth

pastor kryptonite, dude. We were in a hotel.

We slept in a hotel room. Nice hotel room. But

had to share a double bed with my son, Miles.

No. A double bed with my son, Miles. He's getting

to be a big dude. Yeah, he is. I mean, he's skinny,

but he's a little bit taller than me now. And

he's got some muscle on him. And we both take

up a lot of room on the bed. That's hilarious.

That was part of the issue, too. So caffeine

was my friend, was my best friend last week.

And so, yeah. So now I'm here. We're here. We're

recording the podcast again. We're back in the

office. However, this podcast comes out on Friday.

Monday morning, I get to take our fourth through

sixth graders to camp. Okay. Where are you guys

going? And so this is our rooted student ministry.

We also invited our fourth graders to come along

with this. So it's like our preteen age. We are

taking them to Ridgecrest Retreat Conference

Center. It's in the mountains of North Carolina.

Great location. But it's put on by Lifeway. It's

an event called Centra Kids. So like centrifuge

is like the whole idea of it. Okay. You put them

in there. You spin them around really, really,

really fast. And you get the Jesus. Okay. Yeah.

Interesting spiritual model. There's just something

there. I don't know. I don't remember. Anyways,

what it's like, though, what this is like, because

it's put on by Lifeway. Yeah. It is essentially

a four -day overnight VBS. Oh, so high energy.

High energy, tons of games. It's Lifeway, so

there's a theme. There's a theme that they use

in this camp every location. And I think this

one's called storytelling. Oh, maybe. And so,

but it'll have its own theme song, their own

dance moves, like the whole thing. Wow. So this

really is like, like overnight. No, this is overnight

VBS. You know, let's kill two birds with one

stone next year and just do overnight VBS. Like

have all the kids sleep in the gym and have a

morning and a afternoon and evening session.

Let's just, let's just do it, man. Go big or

go home. I love that you're going to be our new

VBS director. I'm so excited for. this new role

that you are taking on, and I cannot wait for

you to find those overnight volunteers. You know

what? I can't wait for the $500 ,000 raise it

would take for me to do that job. That's wild.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, no. So we are going to influence

them in an incredible way this camp. For the

Lord, right? Of course. I don't like the way

you said that. What do I need to be aware of?

We are going to be influencing them to the Lord.

Okay. But also there's a little challenge that's

going to be going on. Oh, goodness. Why am I

not surprised, Sean? There's a lovely volunteer

in our church who we needed another male chaperone.

It's hard to find a male chaperone to go on a

week -long trip, work, all that kind of stuff.

and so I reached out to a new member of ours

that we've been able to get to know really well.

We background checked him and did all the things

to make sure that he would be a good person to

take, but a guy named Scott in our church, he's

going to go on this trip with us and hang out

with us. He's a little crazy in a good way because

I think he's going to bring that high energy

that's needed for an overnight Lifeway VBS camp.

Aha. Right? But with that, me and him have a

challenge. A challenge. That has nothing to do

with camp. Okay. It's pure entertainment. And

to see, we're going to test our manliness. Okay.

And what we're going to do, as we've said, we

are eating tacos at every single meal. Are you

making your own food? No, no, no. There's a cafeteria

there. So how are you going to eat tacos every

meal? So I've thought about this. Is this going

to be camp food in a cafeteria? Yeah. We don't

know what we're going to get. But you know what

I can bring with me? What? Tortilla shells. Sean,

no. So when we arrive. Sean, no. And we get chicken

nuggets and macaroni and cheese on the first

night. You know what kind of taco I'm going to

have on the first night? A chicken nugget and

macaroni and cheese taco. Yes, sir. So me and

Scott are going to do this. And you know the

kids that we're taking with us are going to be

watching us. I guarantee you the majority of

our kids are going to be eating random tacos

by the end of the week, and it's going to be

glorious. I am. You know, all of a sudden, I'm

so glad I'm staying here at the church this week.

I'm more excited. Are you kidding me? I'm so

glad. This is a taco challenge. I was born for

this challenge. You so were. Scott, also, I can't

remember the exact distance. I believe you said

eight or nine miles a day is what we're going

to have to run. to work off the tacos that we're

going to eat. Best of luck with that too, my

guy. That's definitely not happening at camp.

I'm going to have to run this when I get back

because this is in the mountains, and Sean running

up mountains does not happen. I am a beach person.

I'm a flat lander, and yeah, going uphill is

not in my legs. Well, best of luck with your

taco challenge. Thank you. As we pivot to our

text because we need to, I got a question for

you, Sean. Okay. I got answers. Who is the greatest

actor of all time? Oh my gosh. That is such a

good question. The greatest actor of all time.

All right. I'm thinking of range here. Matt Damon.

Matt Damon. Okay. So range. Mad range has done

a lot of different things. Like the movie, the

Martian. Phenomenal. Incredible room. Now, did

you go see The Odyssey? I have not seen The Odyssey,

so that's not what I'm... I'm not thinking of

Matt Damon in The Odyssey right now, because

I know he's in the movie, and I know he plays

a... I believe he plays a big role in this movie.

And so, anyways, yeah. And so, that's what I'm

debating on, you know? We don't have IMAX here

in Stanley County for some odd reason. There's

not an IMAX theater. Rude. And everything I see

online is like, you got to see this in IMAX and

all this kind of stuff. Well, there's only 12

theaters in America that show it the way that...

Exactly. The way that Christopher Nolan filmed

this and did all this. Yeah. I saw that same

thing online. Only 12 theaters exist in America.

that are going to be able to properly display

the movie as he intended it to be displayed.

Yeah. That's wild. It is. And like, I mean, we're

going to go see it anyways, right? But it's like,

is it that big of a difference? See, that's what

I'm saying. Also, there's something else that

you need to know about me. Okay. I'm cheap. Like,

just straight up. This surprises me so much,

Sean. I'm cheap when it comes to certain things.

And when it comes to spending money in the movie

theater, I love our Albemarle movie theater because

it is cheap. I can take my whole family, my entire

family, five people, and we can get popcorn and

drinks and everything. and get out of there for

less than 50 bucks. Let's go, dude. Okay. That

actually is really nice. I mean, you think about

it, you go to like just a date with like you

and your wife in Charlotte. Yeah. That's 50 bucks

for a movie theater. If you get all that stuff.

A hundred percent. But yeah, I think I want to

see it. Okay. Yeah. I like it. But so you would

say Damon is the great is what you would call

the greatest of all time on the top of my head

without overthinking it and just thinking about

that. Yeah. I think Matt Damon's a pretty, he's

a good actor, man. I like, I like that example.

I like that example. Who are you going to go

with? Um, so, uh, Matt Damon was in the running.

For me, it was between Matt Damon, Tom Cruise,

and Mel Gibson. Oh, Gibson. There's equal degree

of versatility there, but I would argue with

you that Tom Cruise plays himself in every movie.

That would be my only thought process. Listen,

the dude, he knows his role. But then you go

back to his movies in the 80s. Yeah. Great drama

roles and everything. But I think he's found

his lane as he's gotten older. Yes. And that's

just kind of where he ends up. Yeah. But so the

reason I bring this up, who's the greatest actor

of all time, is our central text for today, sort

of the one that you and I talked about beforehand

and really wanted to zero in on. Yeah, absolutely.

Because in a very real sense, this is the text

on which many others rest, spoiler alert, is

what commentators sometimes call the great commandment

or the greatest commandment. Yeah. Where Jesus,

you know. Who's the greatest? Exactly. So, Sean,

do you want to jump in here? I don't know if

you prefer the Mark account or the Matthew account.

Let's do this. For the sake of simplicity for

the podcast, let's settle on one of them. Let's

just look at one. I think let's settle on the

Mark 12 account. So it's Mark 12, 28 through

34. Thank you. You mind if I go ahead and read

it? By all means, please do. Hold your drink

further away from the mic. Verse 28. And one

of the scribes came up and heard him disputing

with one another. And seeing that he answered

them well, asked him, which commandment is the

most important of all? Jesus answered, the most

important is, hear O Israel, the Lord our God,

the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord

your God with all your heart and with all your

soul and with all your mind and with all your

strength. The second is this, you shall love

your neighbor as yourself. There is no other

commandment greater than these. And the scribe

said to him, you are right, teacher. You have

truly said he is one. There is none besides him.

And to love him with all the heart and with all

the understanding and with all the strength and

to love one's neighbor as oneself is a much more

than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

And then Jesus said, he answered wisely. He said

to him, you are not far from the kingdom of God.

And then after that, they did not dare to question

him. further. It's a great passage, man. It's

a great passage, and one of the few where, like,

I feel like Jesus and the Pharisees get to, like,

an armistice, you know? I mean, because, like,

even in the context of these passages, like,

Jesus is beefing with the Pharisees and the Sadducees

as this question is asked. Also, like, one of

the rare times that Jesus actually answers a

question point blank, and not, like, answers

a question with a question or a parable, but,

like, he's just, like... I mean, it starts, the

most important is. He just flat out answers the

question. He does. And I feel like part of this,

too, is where we sit in the Holy Week narrative.

Because Jesus is less than a week from going

to the cross. And you see him turn the temperature

up in terms of what he says and what's important.

Absolutely. I've wondered sometimes, as I've

read through the New Testament narratives of

Christ's... time on earth, like why he wasn't

this direct throughout his time. But I believe

it's because when he was, this is what happens.

Like when Jesus gets direct, the Pharisees finally

push to the point where they actually have him

executed. Yeah. And I find it interesting, the

response that he gives, right? I think there's

some modern correlation here. Essentially, the

first part of this, he responds with what the

Israelites, the Jewish people, would have known

as the Shema. And the Shema, you know, hero Israel,

the Lord our God, the Lord is one. I mean, this

was something they literally repeated to themselves

all the time. Yeah. This was a very important

part of their daily exercise of their faith.

Yeah, like a parallel to today would be like

a catechism or a creed from maybe a more Reformed

church. It's something that they say every time.

So I was kind of thinking about the Lord's Prayer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For some churches. Yep, that's

kind of where I was going with that. Where I

find it interesting because they would have been

extremely familiar with this passage. But a lot

of times I see people kind of like this. They

recite the Lord's Prayer. But they don't know

what they're saying, right? And I'm wondering,

Jesus is like, hey, you want to know what the

most important thing is? You already say it all

the time, but have you really thought about what

you say? Isn't that an interesting concept? The

truths of the gospel that you and I, day in and

day out, try to build into ourselves, learn more,

and share with our people every week are not

new. or necessarily hidden, but sometimes they're

hidden in plain sight. Yeah. And this is the

curse of the youth pastor. The curse of the youth

pastor. Yeah. The curse of the youth pastor is

this. We minister to students every week, all

of the really good youth pastors out there, that

we are just preaching our hearts out, preaching

the gospel. And the joke is that we'll go off

to camp. the camp pastor will say the exact same

thing that we do. And all of a sudden our students

will come to us and be like, did you hear what

he said? Oh my gosh, I love Jesus with all my

heart. I'm going to read my Bible every day.

I'm rededicating my life to the Lord. And like

that initial reaction of wanting to shake their

little head, be like, I said this last week.

But it's because they're in this different location.

It's a different voice, a different personality.

And the Lord uses that. And so I remember truly

being frustrated as a young youth pastor. Literally,

I had a situation where I was like, dude, I just

taught on this last week. And then I was getting

offended, and you're young, and you got some

pride there. And then as I got older, I started

to realize the... benefit of having multiple

voices speaking to my students. And now it's

like, it's one of the things I'm constantly looking

for. I'm constantly looking for other people

to speak into the students because yes, they

might say the exact same thing I will, but if

it says it in a way that the students are going

to respond to the Holy Spirit, praise God for

it. I think there's a principle here that is

bigger than just youth ministry. Oh, 100%. I

think it goes beyond people who are young and

to all of us. If the only place I hear scriptural

truth is on Sunday morning for 30 minutes. Oh,

keep going. After some singing. That will absolutely

affect my life. I believe, like scripture says

it, God's word does not return back void. As

the rain falls down and it waters the earth,

so is God's word. But if that is the only input

I get that emphasizes my worldview as a believer,

I'm not going to grow all that much. And it doesn't

mean that I should be listening to a sermon every

day, but I do think that it means that the voices

that we put into our lives really, really matter.

Because sometimes the very same truth from a

different source is what we need to ingrain it

to understand. Because here's the deal. At the

end of the day, it's the same source. Because

it's the Holy Spirit that works in our hearts

to make those things change in us, to show us

those things, to change stubborn. hard -headed

spiritual people into Christlikeness. Can I get

off topic for a second? You just had my mind

go to a couple of different areas, and I'm curious

now. Okay. So you started talking about all these

different inputs, and so my mind went to social

media. Okay. Right? And how we sit in there and

we listen. I was thinking about it. You said

we listen to a sermon for 30 minutes, but then

we can scroll on TikTok for three hours before

we go to bed and not even realize it, right?

And they design it that way, by the way. Oh,

yes, because we are consumers. and we are ad

dollars. And the longer they can keep us looking

at that screen, the more ad revenue they're getting

that we're consuming. We're consuming content

for the sake of the companies. But with that,

the content that we're consuming, we get stuck

on algorithms. Sometimes we're going to be filling

our heads with not good content and all this

kind of stuff. And then once again, all right,

so you've got 30 -minute sermon on Sunday once

a week, and then for... probably for most people

out there, a few hours a day of content that

is not necessarily biblical unless you've really

trained your algorithm to do that. But this is

not my point. Here's my point. Here's the thought

that I started to have. I'm wondering, is in

the next decade, are people going to be able

to sit and listen to a 30 -minute sermon? Because,

I mean, we're already seeing the attention span.

dramatically drop in teenagers that even so like

most teenagers cannot go to the movie theaters

without having their phone out and it's not they

get bored too fast even with something that's

built to be entertaining like a movie they're

so used to 30 second storytelling or 30 second

garbage that they can't process good storytelling

anymore that takes three hours sometimes to be

able to do without being able to have something

else and looking at something else in their brains.

So I wonder if that's going to affect church.

So that was the direction I was going to go with

this. So I'm not getting this off topic. No.

Okay. So yes, but no. This is where I was going

to go based off of what you were saying. Oh,

cool, cool, cool, cool. I believe that there

are realities that Scripture presents us that

cannot be grasped either by a 30 -second story

or a 30 -minute sermon. And so attention span

really does matter, but I think not in the way

of how long it lasts, but what you give your

attention to. So many, like I'm on this own,

like my own journey myself in terms of like,

what does it actually look like for Ben to pursue

Jesus, right? And what spiritually forms Ben

and the way that he does it and the way that

he reads the Bible and the way that he prays

and all of these things, right? Yeah. But I believe

that there are some realities that you have to

pay attention to what's going on internally.

And so for me, it's less of a how long can you

sit through a sermon and more so how long can

you sit with yourself? The TikTok culture, the

30 -second storytelling, and for our previous

generation, it was the three -hour movies, provided

not just an attention span suck, but a distraction

from your own internal reality. It's an escape

that you don't have to deal with the issues that

are going on inside of you. And it's rarely that

intentional. No. You don't realize what you're

doing. You don't realize what you're doing. And

so I think either for the person who just sits

behind the TV for five hours at the end of the

day or the person whose screen time is in triple

digits each week. If we don't pay attention to

the internal reality of our hearts, it doesn't

matter what we're distracting ourself with, whether

it's a movie screen or the glowing rectangle

in each one of our rooms. That's why Jesus says

the most important commandment is not about what

we do, but about what we love. Yes. Love the

Lord your God with all of your heart and with

all of your soul and with all of your mind and

with all of your strength. That's how he says

that it says in the other text. All the other

commandments that are given in the Old Testament

flow out of those. And so I think when we're

distracting ourself that way, whether it be with

a movie screen or whatever size LCD you get on

your phone. You know, one of the things that

I've started to do in my life, probably within

the last year. Hit me. Silence. It's been a discipline.

I think I've talked about that, but I'll go work

out in the mornings. I'll leave my house really

early before work. I'll go to Planet Fitness

and I'll go work out. And I've started to, both

on the way and home, not turn on anything. Yeah.

And sit in silence. Now, there's still distractions

going on because I'm driving. Always, right?

Right. However, I've been able to have a lot

more contemplation about just life. spirituality,

you know, even prayer. And I'm using that time

that I would usually fill with, you know, I mean,

I'd fill it with worship music or an audio book

or a podcast and like positive things. But I

have found that there is a benefit to sitting

in silence. That's biblical. Isn't it though?

Oh, my soul, wait in silence. Like Psalm 46 is

there. And it's interesting that you bring this

up. I have been experimenting with the spiritual

discipline of silence as well. This started for

me maybe about... I don't remember when we read

this book as a staff. Um, and I will tell people

about it until the day that I die. It's the ruthless

elimination of her. It was so good. If you have

not read that, um, there is an audio book. Um,

there's a, there's a paperback book and I will

come geek out with you about it whenever you

would like. So just kind of pick it up and come

to my office. I actually bought it for somebody

on Amazon the other day. I just sent it to their

house. I'm like, you need to read this. Um, but

he talks about how silence is a discipline that

we see in scripture and he goes to the, to the

hit church history with like the, the old church

fathers in the first, second, third centuries

that said it was super duper important. Um, but

I have found the same thing in my own life. It's

looked a little bit different. Um, uh, I get

too distracted driving and so I've got to have

something. Usually it's my lunch break, dude.

Um, if you drive by a memorial on a day where

it's less than 90 degrees outside, I'm parked

out on the front porch eating my lunch. Yeah.

And I'll bring a book, but most of the time I

eat and I sit there. And I watch the world go

by and I watch the trees blow in the wind. And

that is spiritually meaningful for me, not just

that it's a second to breathe, although it is,

but that is when I usually most clearly hear

the voice of God. It's rarely about what I want

to talk about. Maybe that's the season I'm in

where I feel like the things that I want to talk

about aren't the ones that are pressing on my

heart for him. But man, I think that silence

is so important. It is. And I hope we have encouraged

some of our pursuers. to find time in their schedule

to sit in silence. You know, I think an easy

one is if you're someone that has to commute

to work and you're by yourself, I think that's

a great time. You know, that's a great little

first step into silence. And it can be, I remember

it being awkward because I'm so used to having,

because we're constantly filling our lives with

noise. But to have that discipline, where you

have, there's a time in your life where you're

just silent and you just, and as you said, Use

that time, and you just listen for the Lord.

And it's incredible. All of a sudden, you sit

in silence, and the things that can begin to

happen in your soul. I have found, for me personally,

that that discipline of silence is very easily

lost in my life, even on the front porch of Memorial

Baptist or wherever else I do this thing. And

it's usually painful every time. Not emotionally

painful. There's been some of that. It's a different

story. Like to not distract yourself with noise

or something? I think even from a brain chemistry

perspective, Ben is used to the 500 beats per

minute pace that most of us function under. And

so the practice of pursuing silence before Jesus

is something that I had to build a distress tolerance

for. What it doesn't mean is like, okay, today,

this very day, I'm going to sit in silence for

an hour. Dude, it's not happening. You live in

the 21st century. Dudette, it's not happening.

You live in the 21st century. Your cell phone

will stand up and testify. It's not happening.

But go five minutes. Set a timer. You'll check

it around minute mark two. And with that said,

put on do not disturb mode on your phone. Yep.

or set a timer on your microwave and then maybe

go for five and a half and then maybe go for

seven. And eventually you'll find that distress

goes down a little. One of the interesting things

about silence for me is that I don't just hear

the voice of God, although I do at times. Often

one of the things he uses that time for is to

show me my inner realities. Like when I actually

slow down enough to know what I'm actually thinking

and feeling rather than I need to do this, I

need to do that, I need to do this. Going from

task mode to like, what's in the tank? It's like

looking at an aquarium and shaking everything

up. And it's like, yeah, there's fish in there.

I can't see what they are. But slowing down,

letting it settle to the bottom and seeing the

pretty colors. So you've reminded me of something

that happened to me in Argentina because we've

been talking about this. I've used it as an illustration

every once in a while with our students for different

reasons. So the college that I was at was outside

in the country, outside of Buenos Aires, the

second largest city in the world. But we were

out in the country outside that area, and that's

kind of like northern Argentina. But in the summer,

we took a bus and we went to the south all the

way down towards the bottom, and we were in the

mountain range. And so we were right on the border

of Argentina and Chile, going down. And the college

owned a retreat center hotel down there, and

it was called Pichi Traful. Okay. I don't know

if that was the name of just a hotel or if it

was the city or the mountain, but Pichi Traful.

And anyways. Middle of nowhere in the mountains.

And it was ran on generators. And so when the

generators get off, and the generators would

turn off at like 9 o 'clock each night or something

like that, pitch black. I mean, pitch black.

Could not see anything. There is no light pollution

anywhere. Wow. So one night, we had a campfire.

And we just sat by the campfire. Someone had

a guitar doing worship songs. Classic. I mean,

just really cool stuff. And then all of a sudden,

naturally, as the campfire was dwindling and

we were just chilling, all of a sudden, like

everybody was just getting in this really cool,

peaceful mood. We all laid down. The campfire

was just embers. And we laid down and just looked

at the sky. No one said a word. I don't know

if it was two hours or 30 minutes, but we just

sat there or laid there on the lean. Our heads

are on the logs. and just looked at the southern

hemisphere sky, which is cool because it's not

what we're used to, and we just stared in silence.

And that right there, those 30 minutes to a couple

of hours, was one of the most impactful nights

of my year in Argentina. That very thing right

there, that relationship with God, that reflection

of your love for Him, I mean, that's why when

the Pharisee responds to Jesus and says that

that love for God and love for others is more

important than whole burnt offerings and sacrifices,

which are like the biggest of like sacrifices

that Jewish people would make. That's what it

is right there. God only cares about what we

do in so much as it reflects our internal spiritual

reality. And we focused a lot on the Shema. But,

you know, Jesus, and you just mentioned it a

little bit, but Jesus added a little something,

something to this. More than what they... Something,

something. He added a little something, something.

And, you know, he says the second is like this.

So this is just as important. And he says, love

your neighbor as yourself. There is no other

commandment greater than these. And it's so important

to remember because, you know, we shorten it,

love God, love others. You know, we put these

little tropes on it to help us to remember this

idea. But really that idea of your neighbor,

And, you know, he goes in and defines it with

parables and other ideas of who is your neighbor,

but basically it's everyone. Yeah. And so there's

no caveat here. No. We are called to love God

and love everyone. Like, that's what God wants,

as ourself. Yeah. To love others as we love ourself.

So here's a question for you. So you're talking

about, like, God commanding love. how do you

command love? Because if love is a feeling, right?

Then, then you can't, I like, I can't conjure

that up on command. You can show me things that

I do love, right? For you to be tacos. I could

show you a taco. You're like, dude, I love that

taco. How do you command love? How does God have

the right to command us to love certain things?

Yes, he does. Um, because love is more than a

feeling. When we try to define love as just an

emotion, we are taking out so much from it. I

mean, what is love? Baby, don't hurt me. Listen.

Don't hurt me no more. C .S. Lewis wrote an incredible

book that has become like the quintessential

where pastors get their illustrations about love.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in this book, he brings

out that there are four types of love in Greek.

Okay. Right? And there's four different words.

There is storge, eros, phileo, and agape. So

very, very quickly, phileo or Philadelphia, the

city of brotherly love, that's what it is. City

of bagels. It's a friendship -type love, phileo.

That's what that type of love means, right? eros

eros is where we get our word erotic so this

is a passionate uh type of love this is the type

of love that i have for my wife right this is

that this is this is that and then you've got

storge storge is just a uh familiar type love

like i know camaraderie camaraderie exactly it's

that kind of stuff and then you've got this word

agape right and agape is what we would call Godly

love. Now here's just to put this all in the

nutshell and to go back of why I'm saying that

love is more than emotion. Yeah. With the other

three loves, basically those loves say I'm loving

you, but you better love me back. Right? You

think of all of them. You think of all those

loves that we just talked about. They only work

when there's reciprocal love. Yes. Camaraderie

together, erotic love together. Yes. Filet -O

together. Yes. That's what they all are. However,

when we get to agape, Agape is the godly type

love. This is what he's talking about in the

passage we have. Agape love, we call it godly

love or unconditional love, meaning I'm going

to love you no matter what you do back. Man.

So that is not reciprocal love. This is saying

I am making a point to show love, to show compassion,

to serve you. no matter what vial you put back.

So Jesus is saying in the greatest commandment

that you love God in the way that he loves you

and that you love others in the way that God

loves them. Yes. Wow. And so that's how you can

command it. Yes. That's how you command it because

that's what unconditional love is. Unconditional,

it is a command because there are going to be

people that come across in my life that Sean

Griffin, does not want to love but the jesus

inside of me is commanding me to love that person

and moreover he will give you the strength yes

to do so absolutely that's awesome well dude

uh what a great way to kind of land the plane

here just talking about like the love that god

has for us and the way that and the way that

we get to give that love to others and this is

why this is why that in this podcast We can talk

about how much we love God, how much we love

our wives, and how much we love tacos. Because

they're all different types of love. But they're

all genuine. But they're different types, man.

Oh, man. Well, I would love to land this plane.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Oh, my goodness. Put

down your funyuns. I'm Ben Smith. I held back

the whole podcast. I had to eat a funyun. I'm

Sean Griffin. We'll see you next week on Pursuing

Jesus. Pursuing Jesus is a ministry of Memorial

Baptist Church in Norwood, North Carolina. To

learn more about our church,