What Jesus Saw

I still remember Mandisa from, like, I don't

want to gain the whole world and lose my soul.

Dude, my whole personality as, like, a fourth

grader was Toby Mac's Diversity album recorded

live in Texas. We had it on DVD, and I had that

thing on repeat all the time. That was good,

Toby Mac. That was really good, Toby Mac. When

we go back to, like, Diversity, I remember the

name of that album. And then I think it's Whoopsie

Daisy. I think was that the album before? Whoopsie

Daisy was the album after, but that's not the

title of the album. I'm trying to remember what

it is. But it's that because that's the one with

the I don't want to gain the whole world. But

like all of like when Toby Mac went single and

like all those, especially like the first two

because they were like really hard. Yeah, that

was good. Toby Mac. He's done that thing where

he like he'll take an artist under his wing.

and kind of help boost them up. He did that with

Holland. He did that with NF. Like, NF's early

stuff, like, Toby Mac, like, kind of boosted

him. Toby Mac let him tour with him and stuff.

And then NF, like, was like, I'm not a Christian

artist. I'm an artist that's a Christian. And

Toby was like, dude, you can't do that. Yeah.

Which you can. Like, I actually think there's

a – like, I can make a valid case for somebody

who is musically gifted who is a Christian who

does not explicitly make Christian music. I agree.

But, yeah. No, I – that early Toby Mac was –

oh, it was so cool, man. I felt so edgy listening

to his cover of Jesus freak that he does. This

is an encore like daddy's got guitars. His concerts

were good back then too. He has some good concerts.

He would do that thing where like the band would

be going crazy and he'd disappear for a little

bit and he'd just pop up in the, in the crowd.

Yeah. Yeah. I think if I did that at Memorial,

I mean, everybody would see me walk out there,

but you know, we need some stage effects to make

that work. There are so many prerequisites to

what we're talking about that I would need to

install in our sanctuary. Lots of money, but

we have a basement for it, though. That crawl

space is huge. How dare you give me any kind

of... I mean, and think about it. Right below

where the stage is, it's deep. It's deep. That's

true. You could drop. Dude, I could do the Michael

Jackson thing where I shoot out, you know? Have

you seen that? Listen, the cost of this is justified.

Dean and David, if y 'all are listening to this,

can y 'all build this? Can y 'all build this

for me? A spring -loaded catapult that gets me

just high enough off the ground. Yes, it is.

It gets me just high enough off the top of the

stage where it lands. This is perfect. I see

no problems with this. Oh, gosh. In my mind,

it's great. In reality, this is wretched. We're

not going to do this. This is terrible. Dude,

I need stage lights before we get pyrotechnics

and we get hydraulics out of the stage. Sean,

we need a new sound system before we get new

stage lights. Oh man, it's on our last leg. Talking

about like poorly appropriated use of church

money. I was on Facebook Marketplace the other

day, which is always dangerous for me. Was Craigslist

ever a big thing in your generation? Oh, yeah.

I used Craigslist. The used guitar market still

runs off of it. Please stop touching your microphone.

Is it still a thing? Oh, yeah. Craigslist is

still running. Now, there's some creepy people

on Craigslist. Maybe I think that's why Facebook

Marketplace became overshadowed Craigslist. It's

because, oh, you get to look at a profile. You

get to see some stuff about this person and not

just random words on a screen. Meet me at the

Walmart parking lot at 2 a .m. Bring all of your

money just in case. So I was on Facebook Marketplace

the other day, right? And I saw somebody was

selling for the small price of $11 ,000. A 50

-foot rock climbing wall for kids' parties and

stuff. Mobile? Mobile. It's on a trailer, dude.

And I thought to myself, Memorial needs this.

VBS needs this. I cannot imagine the amount of

legal protection we would need from an insurance

perspective and the number of waivers. Tommy

Tarleton would hate any mention of trying for

us to buy a rock wall. Yes, he would. But you

know what? I think it's for the Lord. You know

how much ministry can be done as you're climbing

a rock wall? A lot. Listen, I've been on a rock

wall. I think more people call on Jesus on a

rock wall than... than they do with both feet

firmly planted on the ground. If you happen to

come across a mobile rock wall on Facebook Marketplace,

think about donating it to the church. Just drop

it off. Drop it off. Listen, we don't need to...

So here's the problem with opening up this conversation.

Okay. Because people already feel like the church

is the best place to go donate stuff to without

telling us. Yeah. And people will just show up

with... I'm trying to think of a nice word. Flotsam

and jetsam. I'm just going to say junk. I'm going

to say junk. That's the nice word. Like, I don't

need this. I don't need this. The church would

love to have this because I guess there's some

people that just feel bad throwing stuff away.

And so they're just like, we'll donate it to

the church. Well, I mean, that's an argument

of lesser to greater because I think churches

particularly are guilty of never throwing. Listen,

if there is one thing that I have brought to

memorial, it is the spiritual gift of the dumpster.

The spiritual gift of chuck it. Throw it away.

Get it out of here. You see, Sean, it's not about

the gift given to the church. It's about the

heart that it's given in. Wouldn't you agree?

I would agree, except for the people that continue

with their heart to give us wheelchairs. You

know how many wheelchairs we have at this church

right now? I don't, actually. There's about eight.

Eight wheelchairs stuffed in closets. Tell me

that hasn't turned into a youth group game. Insurance.

No. But what we love is that, yes, it is not

the size of the gift that matters. It's the heart.

What are you getting at? I'm getting that today's

passage. Oh, there it is. Awesome. Awesome. What's

today's passage, Sean? Oh, man. So this week,

man, this week's lessons has been varied for

sure with the stuff that we hit, the stuff that

we were going to be reading this week. But we

wanted to settle on a smaller passage that is

found both in Mark and in Luke. And affectionately,

it is known as the widow's gift or the widow's

might is how people will refer to this story.

And it's a short one. And I think we should read

one of them. Which one do you think we should

read? should read uh mark accounts longer i i've

got stuff from both of them so yeah like well

i think we'll end up referencing all right well

let's read mark because mark's got a little bit

you know like i said it's got a couple more words

a little more details in it so let's read mark

just so everyone's on the same page so if you're

driving down the road you don't have time to

break out your bible right now as as you're uh

as you're listening to this um please don't actually

that's like my pastoral counsel to you right

now is don't read your bible Oh, man. So as you're

driving down the road right now, because we know

that there are probably some that listen to the

podcast as they get on the road, listen to this

so that way you can be in the context of what

we're talking about and join in with those who

do have their Bible in front of them not driving

down the road. I think they get it, Sean. We're

sitting at a table. Let me read it. I've been

carried to the table. Did I introduce you to

that song? Yes. That's what I thought. I thought

that was wild. You never heard that song. There

are many songs I haven't heard. Yeah, but that's

a really good one. It is a really good one. Yeah.

But you knew of Leland. Oh, yeah. He's the man

who sings like a woman. Yeah. He's got long hair.

So you know all the long hair Christians. Y 'all

have like a little Facebook group or something,

right? Yeah, there's all four of us. Anyways,

I moved my mouse. There we go. All right. Starting

in verse 41. Sitting across from the temple treasury,

he watched how the crowd dropped money into the

treasury. Many rich people were putting in large

sums. Then a poor widow came and dropped in two

tiny coins worth very little. Summoning his disciples,

he said to them, Truly I tell you, this poor

widow has put more into the treasury than all

the others, for they all gave out of their surplus,

but she, out of her poverty, has put in everything

she had. All she had to live on. Yeah. Now, the

first thing that stands out to me about this

text, Jesus is... I'm rocking ESV. And he sat

down opposite the treasury and watched people

putting money in the offering box. This was a

public spectacle. People could see what people

were giving. Man, yeah. And this is something

that... That's wild to me, first off. I'm so

glad that this is no longer our culture. Okay,

I'll just be honest. There is a time where this

has been done in church. I forgot what they call

it. And it's been like a special offering thing.

Who can give the most -a -thon? I mean, that's

what I call it in my brain, but it's a time where

there would be a box in front of the church,

and it would be a special offering, and people

literally, every row would get up, come, put

their gift in the church, and go sit back down.

And I've always been freaked out about that.

It's been done at... I've seen it done many times

and it's always just been a weird spirit to me

because it's kind of like this whole thing, right?

It's like, like, yeah, like it's a, it's truly

like this is a spectacle where people, and then

how do they know that some people were putting

in large sums of money because they made sure

people knew they were putting in. large sums

of money and in all fairness like like there

there's a practicality to this too if you're

rich and you're getting you so old testament

law commanded you to give 10 of your stuff right

and so if if you if you got if you and they couldn't

drop in checks back in the day right so if you

got racks on racks like you have a massive freaking

it was going to be obvious and so the clunk in

the bottom of the offeratory chest And I got

to think there have been ways around that. But

it's hard not to read performative giving into

this text. Yeah, it's really hard not to. Yeah.

But yeah, you're right. Jesus is sitting there

just watching. He's people watching. Yeah. It's

so wonderful. I love to do that. Favorite place

to do that is the mall and the airport. Oh, that

is a great place, because you can get a range

of emotions in that place. Oh, you get a range

of emotions at either place. Yeah, the mall's

a fun one, too. You learn things you didn't want

to know at the mall, but that's half the battle.

But here we go, but Jesus is people watching

in the temple, right? And he's watching these

people put in money, and the focus of this story

is not the rich people, but it's this poor widow.

Yeah. Right? And she come, and from Jesus' commentary,

and he knows, because he's God, that she gave

everything. Yeah. And that is, this is where

we see really the heart of who our God is. Because

here, so you're exactly right. Something that

just occurred to me now is that, so everybody

saw the spectacle of the rich giving, right?

Jesus had to call his disciples' attention to

the giving of this widow. Whoa. And so he contrasts

the heart of giving from abundance and giving

out of poverty, but Jesus sees the small actions

of faithfulness with equal focus and with equal

intentionality as what might be considered the

quote -unquote large acts of faithfulness or

generosity. What I love about this and the reason

he drew the attention of the disciples is because

her giving was truly sacrificial. What does that

look like? Or what do you mean when you say that?

So it says that she gave out of her poverty.

Yeah. So this means that every bit of money she

has, we are getting the... We are getting the

context here that she doesn't have a lot. Yeah.

And so she needs to live to be able to buy food

or whatever. She needs the resources that she

has. Verse 44 says she put in all she had to

live on. Yes. Everything. And she was willing

to sacrifice what she had in faith to God. Yeah.

Where... when we give and it doesn't hurt us,

if we just give out of our abundance, which is

what it says that the rich people were doing.

So it also makes me wonder if they were giving

out of their abundance, were they even, I wonder

if they were even given what was required of

them of the time. I bet they were. Yeah. It's

hard to know that from the text, but I do see

what you're getting at. But it wasn't hurting

them. But it wasn't hurting. Even if it was,

it was not something that was sacrificial. Yeah.

Like, their abundance was not sacrificial to

them, and it would have not been missed. Right.

And that is completely true. And you see the

premise in Scripture of, like, giving shouldn't

be a flippant thing, even in the Old Testament.

Because remember, these people didn't have New

Testament, spirituality, new covenant, all that

stuff. Like David gives the example of, I will

not give sacrifices that cost me nothing. When

he goes to buy the threshing floor to build the

temple and humble was like, dog, I love Jesus.

You're also the king. I don't have a choice.

I'm going to give it to you. And David's like,

I won't do this in a way that won't cost me.

But I will say here, I don't feel like Jesus

condemns the rich for the way that they give

in so much as he elevates the giving of the widow.

Like I said at the beginning, he is focusing

on the widow. He is focusing on her actions.

Yeah. And once this is, he wants his disciples,

because he says he's not, he doesn't look at

his disciples and say, oh gosh, look what they're

doing. Yeah. No, no. He focuses on this one and

just says, hey, this is what I want you to notice.

I want you to notice how this woman has come,

this widow has come, and she has given everything.

Yeah. And that is out of... Her heart must have

obviously been in the right place as well. 100%.

This wasn't her giving out of fear, like, oh,

the Lord's going to smite me if I don't do this,

one of those things. No, her heart was saying

that I love God so much, and I trust and I have

faith in my God that I'm just going to give him

this. So that trust and faith thing is something

that stood out to me too. My Bible's got one

of those little notey notes. Notey notes. Yep,

that's a theological term. Right where it says

she gave two small copper coins, it gave me an

interpretation of how much that was worth. It's

a Roman copper coin worth about 1 64th of a day's

wages. All she had was a 64th of a day's wages.

And so the principle of her giving, that being

all that she have, one, and her giving all of

that to the Lord flies directly in the face of

the tendencies I see in myself. Here's what I

mean. When things get thin financially or in

any other area of my life, I tend to, and I think

this is a pretty natural human response, I tend

to go into conservation mode. Let me give you

an example. December is crunch time for worship

ministry. We have concerts, we have... concerts

we've got plays we got rehearsals we got services

and then there's also like all the other various

sundry holiday things there are more nights of

the week that you are here in the month of december

than an average month yes uh to maybe to understate

it a little yes um and so not so so drop the

the money connotation yeah um but the scarcity

i face in december is not money because I'm grateful

for the church providing for me. It's time. And

when I experience scarcity of time, it doesn't

make me more generous. It makes me less generous.

It's a natural human instinct. I think to myself,

no. that extra extra extra thing that that somebody

asks us to do i'm not doing that i'm gonna go

home and i'm gonna play my guitar i'm gonna read

a book i'm gonna watch a christmas movie um because

my scarcity um must like like i have to protect

what i have now this is the exact opposite in

her scarcity um she responds with generosity

in worship And I think that that's an expression

of trust, like what you said, where she gives

out of her poverty because she trusts that the

Lord will provide for her. I think that's a mindset

that we all have an opportunity to embrace in

different areas of our lives. Because, I mean,

you and me sitting across this table from each

other have different areas of lack. Everybody

listening to this podcast have different areas

of lack. For some, it might be financial. For

some, it might be time. For some, it might be

physical stamina and energy. For some, it might

be ability to deal with people. Like your bucket

only goes so full. But how do we, one of the

biggest takeaways I took from this text for myself

was how do I respond when I have lack? Do I respond

by conserving? Or do I respond? with generosity,

trusting that the Lord will take care of me.

Yeah. And this is one of the things that we've

dealt with on this podcast before, and that is

worship and sacrifice go hand in hand. Yes. I

mean, worship, true worship, and I'm talking

about the definition of the word beyond music.

Far beyond music. Worshiping God requires sacrifice.

Going back to the story of David, he fully recognized

that there is a sacrifice needed because it's

showing dependence on the one you're trying to

worship. I mean, how can you worship God if you're

not giving up something of yourself? Because

it's an expression of love, right? And generally,

if you love somebody, you don't want to give

them the dregs. When I take Maddie out for our

anniversary, I don't take Maddie to Wendy's.

What? Unless Maddie wants to go, in which case

we do. I've heard Maddie talk about the potatoes

and chili at Wendy's. Which are things she actually

can't eat there with her dietary restrictions.

It's tougher than you might think. But it's not

an obligation. It's an affection. It's not...

Well, Jesus gave everything for you, so you better

give everything for him. There's desire. It's

desire there. And I think that our desire...

to worship sacrificially can grow based off of

how often we look at the truth of what Jesus

has done for us and let that influence our love

for him. I think that's part of the sanctification

process. A hundred percent. But like guilting

you into giving. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Whether that's time or money or service. No,

no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's an interesting

little tidbit. I went down a little bit of a

rabbit trail about giving when I looked at this

text. Are New Testament believers, this is a

question for you, Sean, do you think New Testament

believers are required by the Bible to give 10

% of their income? No. Really? No. I think that

is a belief that is... prominent in a lot of

circles in Christianity. Yeah, no, I think that

the New Testament, I think that 10 % is a good

baseline for new believers. And not anything

that is a commandment from Scripture, but as

a practice of getting to that, of understanding

what giving is, I think giving 10 % is a good

baseline. But when I look at New Testament giving,

once again, I just see sacrificial. And I think

sometimes if we stay so focused on the amount

of that number of 10%, we might be missing what

God is trying to do in our lives when he's trying

to say, hey, no, I think you should give up more.

But here's the hard thing, because this is so

hard to talk about as pastors, because then you've

got these people with our sinful hearts. They're

like, uh -huh, yeah, yeah, the pastor just wants

more money. It's like, no, no, no, no. And so

it's one of those fine lines of being able to

try to help guide people. And understand like,

hey, this is not, I'm not doing this out of personal

gain. Like truly not trying to do this. I'm trying

to get you to understand, like, listen to the

Lord here. And there is a difference. And like,

and if you're giving an offering to the Lord,

that's going to be different for different people.

I don't think it's that hard. I recognize what

you're saying in terms of the folks who would

be like, these people just want more money, but

let's let the words of Scripture determine what

we believe. 2 Corinthians 2 .9. I landed here

in my journey as I'm looking at tithing and all

that stuff. Paul says the point is this. Whoever

sows sparingly will also reap sparingly. Whoever

sows bountifully will also reap. And so prosperity

teachers, guys who are just trying to get your

money, they stop at verse six because they're

like, you so sparingly, God is not going to bless

you. They directly equate how much you give to

them to line their pockets and their Lamborghini

for the Lord with how much God will bless you.

But verse seven says, each one must give. As

he has decided in his heart. There you go. Not

reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves

a cheerful giver. We see here in scripture, and

I will talk about this until I am dead. God cares

more about your heart when you do the thing than

whether you do the thing or not. Correct. And

so this is why every single year. when we do

our special offerings, like the two big ones

that we have here at Memorial is our Easter offering

and our Christmas offering. One supports international

missionaries, the other supports national missionaries,

right? And... Every single time, and I will continue

to do it every single time, we do these special

offering gifts that is above your tithe and offering.

Let me repeat that again. This does not replace

your tithes. This is above an offering. This

is an offering of sacrifice to these special

things. I always say every single time, pray

about this. Before you, like, hey, we started

it on December 1st. Don't give on December 1st.

Pray about how much you want to give. In fact,

a lot of times I'll even say, if you're a married

couple, pray separately. Don't talk to each other

about it. Pray separately and then come together

and see what that amount is that the Lord has

talked to you about separately. Because when

you do that, it's coming from your heart. And

it's no longer going to be a... We definitely

have a lot of people that are financially -minded

people, and they're going to be thinking, okay,

well, this is December. I got this going on.

I got this going on. I got this. It's like, no,

no, no. This is not a budgetary expense. This

is a sacrificial gift that you're giving to the

Lord. Let Him guide your giving and not your

paycheck balance. Yeah. Because if the... Right

there, as you just read, if the Lord's going

to guide you toward it and be free to listen

to the Lord. Now, sometimes I've done this, me

and Tiffany have done this, and the Lord has

given us a number we were not comfortable with.

That's happened a lot. Yeah. But guess what?

Especially when we do it separately. we know

it's from the Lord. Yeah. If we do it together,

we can convince ourselves that, oh, yeah, no.

No, but if we both pray separately and all of

a sudden we come back with a number together

and we were both scared to tell each other the

number and then we come out with the same number,

we know God has told us to give that number.

And like, okay, we don't know how our bank account

can afford this, but we know the Lord has told

us to do this. And it does have to come from.

God, because I firmly believe like this verse

gives precedent for God can tell you a small

number. God can tell you don't give. Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. I think that the premise here of

like you have to give a certain amount or even

like you have to give at all. It's really based

off of what the Lord is asking you to do. That

means you can't do it by yourself. That means

that before you give, you have to be walking

with Jesus to know what he wants you to do. I

also think that that lets him determine the direction

that you give. God can say, give in this area.

God can say, give in this area. But at the end

of the day, he's the one who has given us the

resources. And because he loves us and because

we struggle to know what to do and because he

has a perfect plan, he'll show you how, when,

and where to give, not under compulsion, not

reluctantly. And he will cultivate that joy in

your heart if you ask him. And as a reminder

that you talked about earlier, now that we have

fully really looked at, you know. sacrificial

giving and giving us to the Lord calls, this

is not all about money. No. In fact, for many

people, time is more valuable than money because

that is a limited resource that we all have the

same amount of every single day. And then we

all choose what we do with the time that we're

given. My brother in Christ, we do not all have

the same amount of time every day. We all have

24 hours. Yeah, but the obligations that bind

us are different. You are correct. But we all

get to choose what we do within that 24 -hour

period. So, yes, we definitely have obligations.

We have different things that we can do. And

some will squander that time. Others will manage

it better, right? But every single human being

has 24 hours in a day. And so for some people,

that is a more valuable resource. than money

is and so giving up of time is something that

some people don't do no and so maybe in your

heart maybe in the heart of someone listening

you know you are you you can money is not something

you can give freely with money and maybe even

sacrificially but you're not willing to give

your time because i know of a lot of i know I've

known people in church that give incredibly to

the church and sacrificially. They are willing

to give to missions. They're willing to give

to the church sacrificially, but they won't serve.

You know, isn't it so interesting that the same

virtue or vice can have such a different... impact

in different areas of our life, that one that

is so generous with finances can be so stingy

with time. One of the people who's mentored me,

they lean definitely more charismatic than some

others. And so this person practices deliverance

ministry. They'll pray over people regarding

specific spirits that are afflicting them. And

that's a different conversation for a different

podcast. Really? We don't have time to go into

that one right now? We are already over the 30

-minute mark. And And that is something I'm happy

to talk about. But the point of it is this. This

couple was really struggling. They were really

fighting with some spiritual warfare. They approached

this person who does deliverance. And after the

three of them prayed, they all came to the conclusion,

like, there is a spirit of greed on this man.

And the man was like, I don't think you understand.

Like, we are giving sacrificially. Like, I am

generous, and the wife affirmed that. And so

they were praying, they were praying, they were

praying, and the Lord told this person doing

deliverance, he's not generous for this time.

And the wife was like, oh, shoot, you're right.

He doesn't give his time to anybody. They prayed

over that. They found that spirit, all the things.

But it's interesting that the same virtue or

vice can come out so differently in different

ways in our lives. Yeah, yeah. And it's different

for everybody else. 100%. It is different. So

for me personally, I feel like I am very generous

with my time. I love to serve. I love to do that.

Money is the one that I struggle with. And it's

one that I think I've even talked about that

on the podcast before. But I'm just glad I have

a godly wife that is more generous with our money.

Praise the Lord that he sets us up with people

that our strengths match. Yeah. So I guess just

to land the plane for us, you pursuers, us and

you, we all pursuers today, take time this week,

maybe even like after you finish this podcast

or after you press pause or whatever, hold a

little bit of space and ask the Holy Spirit,

what areas of my life are you asking me to be

generous with? What areas am I giving richly?

And what areas do I refuse to give richly out

of fear or out of lack of security? I'm asking

that question to myself. Sean, it sounds like

you're asking that question of yourself, but

I think that's a really good place to land the

plane. And when you're on that journey. And if

you're asking those questions, you're moving

in the right direction. Amen. Because that's

the thing. Sometimes people will struggle of

like, man, am I doing enough or whatever? And

we can get into that whole conversation, which

we get into all the time. All the time. But asking

the questions and being genuine about asking

the question of like, what can, am I, where do

I need to sacrifice? You're on the right direction.

Yes. It's crazy. Like the heart behind the behavior.

And the struggle that you're having matters more

than the behavior and struggle itself. The heart

is what matters. Absolutely. That's what we're

seeing here in Mark with this amazing parable.

This is what we've been seeing in Galatians as

we've been studying it on Sunday morning. The

heart is what matters. Awesome. Well, Pursuers,

it's been fun. Do some introspection. We'll catch

you guys next week. Well, my name is Sean Griffin.

Oh, my name is Ben Smith. That's right. And I

hope you guys have a wonderful, wonderful week.

We'll see you soon. Pursuing Jesus is a ministry

of Memorial Baptist Church in Norwood, North

Carolina. To learn more about our church, please

visit memorial4norwood .com. How did we get off

on that? That was so stupid. What do you mean?