Unless It Falls

Welcome back to Pursuing Jesus. This is episode

31. We are your hosts, Ben Smith and... Hi guys,

I'm Sean. He's going through some things. I just

felt like you were going like... I was like,

what is the exact opposite thing I can do? Hi,

guys. Hi, guys. Oh, my goodness. Thank you for

that. That's great, dude. And they have no idea,

though, but why you were doing your little thing.

I was just bouncing up and down. He was rocking

out. I was dancing in my chair to your little

theme music. It was reminiscent of his days in

the club, in the club. True, because my feet

didn't move then either. You're not inclined

to choreography, are you, Jonathan? No, not at

all. I love to move. That was one of the funniest

things. like post VBS a couple of weeks ago,

people were like, you were really getting into

the dancing and stuff like you actually like

we're fun. And I was like, number one, ouch.

And number two, dude, I love to dance like, like,

you know, not, not to go against my Baptist cultural

roots, but it is in the Bible. So I, I had to

warm up to dancing. I was, I did. I was not a

dancer, did not like dancing. Mainly I was very

self -conscious and I felt, I mean, and you have

to just not care. To be a fun dancer. Who cares

if you're good? Just to have fun. Just if you

want to have fun on the dance floor, you have

to not care. I cared for way too long about what

people thought of me. I'm talking about even

in my marriage, and I regret that. I regret that.

But I remember it's the last couple times, though.

I've been willing to go out there. I remember

the first time I really had fun in a public dance

floor, like really had fun, was only a couple

years ago. Really? Yeah, so we have a student

here. uh, Lila who had her quinceanera and miles

was a part of it. So we got invited. Nice. Such

a fun party. Um, but they had a dance floor and

like after the whole ceremony, just people, I

just went out there and just had fun and dance.

I love that. Why wasn't I doing this earlier

in my life? Well, I mean, but like that, it's

such a perspective shift from like, everybody's

looking at me too. Yeah. Everybody's looking

at everybody. That's kind of just the thing.

Exactly. It really, like, I feel like it's best

said in the words of the prophet, Miley Cyrus.

You put your hands up. They're playing that song.

The butterflies fly away. Not in your head, like,

yeah. Move in your hips, like, yeah. You put

your hands up. They're playing your song. You

know it'll be okay. Yeah. It's a party in the

USA. I was wondering how long you were going

to go with that one. Of course. You just kept

going and going and going. But, yeah, that is

definitely, like, I don't like to think of, like,

regrets in my life. But, like, you know, like,

that's like a... I'm like, man, why couldn't

I have been more fun with that? Hindsight's 40

-40. It sure is. Yeah. Speaking of hindsight.

Hindsight. And probably singing and dancing,

too. It's a nice little tie together. So this

is your first check -in on the PJ podcast. Wow.

After Central Kids Camp. How was that? Just give

them a 30 -second, like, how we got here. 30

seconds. And then tell us what happened. So I

was at camp last week. Correct. With our fourth

through sixth graders. Fourth through sixth.

And we had a blast. We took 14 kids. I had four

guys in my room, and I just had fourth and fifth

graders, incidentally, in my room. But, man,

we just had a blast. It was so much fun. And

so this camp, it's unlike anything we do with

student ministry. Because, I mean, during the

day, they've got things called tracks. where

first thing in the morning, there's a hype -up

worship rally where they play games, and there's

songs, and they're dancing. And then they go

do a Bible study with their Bible group leader.

And then they go do rec time, and they're winning

points and stuff. And then after lunch, they

do track time. And so whatever they signed up

for, like we had kids that signed up for soccer

and basketball, weird science. Weird science.

They made slime and Play -Doh and all kinds.

They had fun. Dude. So there's sports tracks,

but then there's other tracks too. There was

one that a couple of girls of ours were in called

No Boys Allowed. And I think from what they were

saying, it was like... They provided like nail

polish and stuff and they just, they hung out

and, and did girly. Wow. No boys allowed is crazy.

They did all kinds of fun stuff. Like, you know,

they asked for adult leaders to kind of help

out sometimes with some of these. So I was like,

can I go help out with that one? Just to be,

just to disrupt everything. Cause that's my motto.

But anyways, so to keep myself occupied, uh,

mentally and just to do something. crazy on this

trip. Uh, yeah, myself and a guy named Scott

that went with us, an adult leader, we decide,

and this is, it's a, the origin story of this

is so vague. We are still not a hundred percent

sure exactly how this challenge began. Okay.

All we know is it was a challenge that was set

and we answered the call. And the challenge was

every single meal while we were at camp breakfast,

lunch, and dinner, we would have to turn that

meal into tacos and tacos. So Picture this. In

our brains, we're going to camp. So we're thinking

we're going to have to turn chicken nuggets and

french fries into tacos at least five times.

And it was just going to be frozen fried food

and crappy cheeseburgers and all this kind of

stuff. But that's not what it was. So we went

to Ridgecrest. And Ridgecrest is an incredible

retreat center out in the mountains of North

Carolina, right outside of Black Mountain. Dude,

they served incredible food. Really? Night one,

they served brisket. Whoa. Night one. What? Yeah.

So y 'all had brisket tacos. We had brisket tacos.

We set the bar high and they were delicious.

Of course they were. So, I mean, really, it wasn't

much of a challenge because the challenge was

not overeating. Like that was the challenge.

Dang. Because it was such good food. we had french

fries one meal and so and they were waffle fries

so they were like really good fries okay so at

that point it's like it's a feature it's not

a bug so like i mean every i mean so yeah there

was some weird tacos we made there was you know

they gave you options right and so i chose not

to pick up this item so i didn't have to put

it in a taco fair but scott was like no i'm gonna

do it and i'm proud of him for that but corn

dog He had a corn dog taco. And so he was at

least wise enough to take the stick out. Okay,

good. Very good. And then just slapped the corn

dog on a soft taco shell. And yeah, too much

breading. Yeah, that one's a little weird. So

I will tell you the most interesting one. Okay.

So like the one that surprised me the most. The

one that surprised me the most was meatballs.

What? Yeah. So like it makes me next time I go

to Subway. Usually I don't order a meatball sub,

but this really makes me want to order a meatball

wrap now. Because it was really good. We had

meatballs, extra sauce, Parmesan, and we threw

some banana peppers on there. And man, it was

delish. You're going to get some weird looks,

dude. It was so good. It was so good. So if you're

interested in this journey, for whatever reason,

I don't know why you were, I made the dumb decision

to... to record this process all week long. And

so I have a TikTok. I had a total of three videos

on my TikTok before last week. And then every

single meal, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, I

put it on the TikTok saying what it was, showing

us eating it. And so if you're interested and

you want to see all the different tacos we ate,

I don't know how to find my TikTok. I have no

idea what my handle is because I don't care.

But it's on there. Go look for it. And the reason

I'm talking like this too is because literally

about halfway through the week, I looked at Scott

and was like, why did I set this precedent? Why

did I start recording every single meal? I am,

I could never be in a social media influencer.

Cause I just don't care. You just, I just don't

care, but I started, so I had to finish. So I

did get every single meal. Did you become like

a little local celebrity for the kid? Like where

did the kids see this and like approach you?

Like, like, Oh, I got to go see Sean and Scott.

They're the taco guys. Um, so within our kids,

we had a couple of that. We had a little bit,

like they'd come in, like be interested. We did

get, some of the summer staff involved. In fact,

even the director of the camp. We were talking

with the director of the camp, and finally, the

last day, last meal, breakfast, she finally came

and ate a taco with us. You know what? That's

good. That's good. Well, you know, Sean, I can't

help but be reminded. So our text today. is really

centered around an encounter of somebody becoming

known for something and people wanting to approach

them, wanting access to this famous person. And

then we see that famous person's response, right?

I mean, it's a stretch, but yeah, we'll to go

with it. I'm working on it. Okay, listen, well,

you're talking about putting food in taco shells.

How on earth am I going to get this to land?

So I was thinking you were going to go with because

he uses a grain of wheat as an example in his.

So I didn't know if you were going to do something

with wheat being turned into taco shells. I thought

maybe you're going to go that route. No, I'm

a corn taco guy. I know I enjoy when I'm eating

like street tacos. Dude, you got to go corn.

You got to go corn every tradition. If I'm if

I'm doing tradition, Traditional tacos, corn

taco every time. If it's white people taco night,

we're going flour. We should get into our text.

Because you know we could talk about tacos forever.

I'm not the one with a taco emblazoned on my

left thigh. Hey, can I say one more thing? Sure.

You know what's really funny? What? Is that,

so we had that, I ate tacos every day for five

days. Yeah. So 15 tacos or 15 meals worth of

tacos at least, probably more. Guess what? Which

I'm setting it up, so it's not going to be much

of a guess, but guess when I came home and I

had dinner that night, do you know what I had

for dinner that night at my house? Did you have

tacos? I had tacos. Did Tiffany do it intentionally?

No. It was a leftover night. I could have chosen

many different options. I chose tacos. Wow. That's

really something, Sean. I deserve the brand that

I gave myself. True facts. So John 12, 20 through

26. I think this is August 4th. Smooth transition.

It is August 4th. So Sean, do you want to read

our text for today? You know what? I would love

to, because this is such an interesting passage,

right? Because this is one of those times where

people want to talk to Jesus, and then Jesus

responds and just... Like it feels like it's

out of left field. Well, and he gives a speech.

Yes. Like, like the next, uh, like the next.

Five days of reading or a continuation of what

starts here. Oh my gosh, yeah. But we, I mean,

and I was, as we were kind of preparing for this

podcast, I was looking like, man, we could really

cover days worth and just really look, I was

like, man, let's zero in on this beginning part

because there's so much interesting stuff in

just the very beginning of what he says. Yes.

And I think there's a lot of application that

we can give to our pursuers. And so, yeah, let

me just read August 4th. And so I'm reading from

the CSB. You can have a different translation,

but as best you can, follow along with me. Here's

what it says. Now, some Greeks were among those

who went up to worship at the festival, so they

came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee,

and requested of him, Sir, we want to see Jesus.

Well, Philip went and told Andrew. Then Andrew

and Philip went and told Jesus. Jesus replied

to them, The hour has come for the Son of Man

to be glorified. Truly I tell you, unless a grain

of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains

by itself. But if it dies, it produces much fruit.

The one who lives his life will lose it, and

the one who hates his life in this world will

keep it for eternal life. If anyone serves me,

he must follow me where I am. There my servant

also will be. If anyone serves me, the Father

will honor him. There it is. There's our passage

that we're going to look at today. So like first

blush on this text, dude, like I love the almost

cartoonish intro. Yes. Like Greeks come to Philip.

Philip comes to Andrew. Andrew comes to Jesus.

Jesus, we got some Greeks that want to talk to

you. Well, like it feels like a who's on first

kind of deal. Like, hey, Philip, can we see him?

Andrew, should we get these? Let's ask Jesus,

you know? It's such a fun introduction. It really

is. So, but like, let's talk about these Greek

dudes a little. Context of this passage, remember,

we're in Holy Week, which is like the week that

Jesus was crucified. This is also Passover week.

So, the Jewish festival where they would celebrate.

you know, the deliverance from Egypt and how

God passed over the sins of the people who were

in Egypt, who had the blood at the post of the

doors. This is also near to the day of atonement

where the high priest would go into the temple

and give, you know, give blood sacrifices for

the people of God. And so if the Greeks are here

for the festival, It makes me wonder, were these

believing Greeks? Because we have records of,

I think they call them proselytes. We talked

about that in an earlier passage, where people

from different ethnicities other than Judaism

would join the family of God and worship Yahweh

that way. Do you think that that's what's going

on here? Yeah, I mean... There's one of two choices,

I think, in this. And this is either they are

ones that have been converted or they are extremely

interested because, I mean, if they are seeking

out Jesus. They showed up to Passover, number

one. Exactly. And so they are absolutely interested,

but I would lean definitely towards, I believe

that these are ones that are converts. Yeah.

And so like they go to Philip and Philip goes

to Andrew and then Andrew and Philip together

go to Jesus. And Jesus straight up does not answer

their question. Not at all. Like, not at all,

not at all. The hour has come for the Son of

Man to be glorified. Truly, truly, I say to you,

this is the ESV. Unless a grain of wheat falls

on the earth and dies, it remains alone. But

if it dies, it bears much fruit. Whoever loves

his life loses it. Whoever hates his life in

the world will keep it for eternal life. And

I could see Philip and Andrew just kind of like

looking at each other like, so is that a yes

or a no? But I mean, I feel like what Jesus is

saying here is like, They want to see me? They

want to see me? They're about to. Because the

glorification of his name that he's talking about

is his crucifixion. Yeah, so what he's referring

to is, I mean, that's what he says. He says,

the hour has come. I mean, it is about to happen.

And that's a theme throughout the book of John,

like where something will happen and Jesus will

say, my hour has not yet come. My hour has not

yet come. Like at the wedding at Cana, like his

first documented miracle in the book of John,

Mary's like, hey, Jesus, can you help these guys?

And he goes, my hour has not yet come. Which

is an interesting thing in and of itself. Like

Jesus is a single dude sitting at a wedding feast.

And he says, my hour has not yet come. And I

wonder, what's going through his mind? So Jesus

never married on this earth. He didn't have a

romantic relationship with anybody during his

time on earth. But the times that I have been

single at weddings, like before I married Maddie,

there was something internal, at least in my

own heart. And this has definitely been like...

superimposing his thought process on Jesus. Dude,

when I've been single at a wedding, I have sat

and looked and thought about my own wedding.

I wondered what that was like. I wondered what

the person was going to be like, who the woman

was going to be standing across the aisle from

me. Who's going to be in my wedding party? There's

a longing that came with that for me. And I can't

help but wonder when Jesus says that to Mary,

like my time has not yet come, and now him saying,

this is the hour. Like, Jesus is about to ransom

his bride. Like, the hour has come where he makes

a way for the people of God to have relationship

with him. And so, like, this is actually a really

weighty, weighty thing for him to say here. I

agree. And so, you know, and that's why I said,

like, on the surface level, he's not directly

responding to the question, which... That's,

I mean, that's Jesus, you know. His thought process

is so above all else. Classic Jesus. But I do

love, like, once he establishes, like, hey, the

hour has not, or the hour has come for the Son

of Man to be glorified. And these times, he's

like, are you ready for this? It's kind of like

what we're seeing here. And I find the illustration,

it's almost like a mini parable he gives right

here. Really interesting. I really love what

he does here. And so he says, truly, I tell you,

unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and

dies, it remains by itself. And so I'm picturing

this in my brain and I'm loving this visual because

it shows you like, okay, the idea that he's given

is that the grain of wheat, It could stay, you

know, it could be plucked off and stay grain

forever, right? It's the same idea of like, you

know, we have packages of seeds, right? Yeah.

And you can have those seeds and those seeds

could stay seeds forever. Or if they're willing

to die to themselves, because that's what has

to happen in order for a tree, a. for something

to come out of that seed, the seed has to go

away. It's essentially what Jesus is saying.

That seed is never seen again. Yeah, it's gone.

It's gone because then it produces something

new. And so what Jesus is saying is that truly,

I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls to

the ground and dies, it remains by itself. So

it's going to remain. Unless it does it, it's

going to remain in its original form. But if

it dies... It produces much fruit. And so it

really reminds me. And then he goes in and he

talks about, you know, he kind of explains it

a little bit. But when I first read that, I was

like, it reminded me of who I once was. And like,

I could have chosen to stay my old lost self.

But if I would have done that, if I would have

stayed as a grain of wheat of who I was, and

I would have not died to myself to follow Jesus.

I would have never experienced what it was to

produce the fruit that Jesus has put into me.

Yeah. And just to put it in more practical terms,

when I think back to high school, Sean, and if

you would have told high school Sean where I'm

sitting at today, there's no way I would have

believed it. Right, yeah. Because my mindset

was so radically different. I was not following

Jesus. I was following my own ways. I was not

willing to die to myself. In fact, that was one

of my biggest issues. I had all these people

telling me, you need to change. You need to be

different. You need to follow Jesus. And I was

like, forget you. I'm not doing that. I'm going

to live the lust of my heart, and I'm going to

live for myself because myself is what's most

important. And that's it. That's what Jesus is

saying. Like, hey, I'm about to be glorified.

And then he goes on. It's like the one who loves

his life will lose it. Will lose it. So, hey,

you want to stay in your old ways? You want to

hold on to that life that you think is so precious?

Guess what? It's not going to end well for you.

Well, and so Jesus establishes the principle

here, right? The hours come for him to be glorified.

Then he gives an analogy to explain it in earthly

terms. For the new thing to come, the old has

to die. And then he gives kind of the theological

backing for it in 25. Whoever loves his life

will lose it, and whoever hates his life in this

world will keep it for eternal life. Now, it's

important to recognize the words love and hate

mean a little bit of different things to us than

they do to the first -century Jewish audience.

You see it in Hebrews, this same love and hate

dynamic where it says God loved Jacob and hated

Esau. It's not like an actual love and hate emotionally

thing. It's a question of priorities. Yes. And

he clarifies that, too, with the hate. Yeah.

Because it's not just hates his life. It's hates

his life in this world. Yes. Yeah. And so he's

saying... the thing I am about to go through,

like this glorification that Jesus is referring

to that involves being publicly flogged and mocked

and crucified and losing all of his friends and

all that stuff is part of the dying to self thing.

And if, but here's the deal. If you love your

life on this earth, you're not willing to undergo

the process of crucifixion. Yeah. And physical

crucifixion is not what Jesus asks of all of

us, obviously, but he does say, if anyone would

come after me, let him take up his cross and

follow me. Yes. And I think we've all got our

own unique crucifixion -level agonies that we

wrestle with. Just based off of our own things

that we need to die to personally. And for everyone,

that's different. 100%. Right? We've got to look

at the things that, what is the thing that you're

holding on to dearly? Because I think there's

a lot of, there can be some things in different

people's lives that, you have not been willing

to give up for Jesus. Yeah. And that's the thing

that he's asking you to crucify. And, and it's

interesting. Like there's a real, there's a real

sense in which we put that on the cross. Jesus,

I lay this down. And there's a very real sense

where he helps you to do that as well. Oh, absolutely.

Like, cause, cause, cause I, it could be easy

to walk out of here being like, all right. I

have to find the seven things that I am refusing

to give up to give to God. It's like, no, no,

no, no, no. He's going to show you. He's going

to help you address those in his timing. And

he's going to show you what crucifying those

parts of your flesh. Well, and I truly believe

too that that's what you're saying. I mean, it's

not about like searching your heart because you're

not going to have to search your heart for these

things. Sometimes. I think that a lot of these,

especially if the Holy Spirit is dealing with

you in these, you're going to realize that this

is something that you are placing over the Lord.

It might not be something you've admitted out

loud, but you know that it is an idol in your

heart. Now, I do agree with you as well. There

could be times where we have mini idols, or miniature,

not mini, mini, M -I -N -I. We could have mini...

Not M -I -N -I -E, like Minnie Mouse? We could

have many. But there could be things that are

developing, and maybe we haven't realized that

this is going to be an issue yet. Blind spots.

But the Lord will show it to us. The Lord will

absolutely show it to us. You know, one of the

things I was thinking about, like the metaphor

of the seed that Jesus is talking about, one

of the things that I was thinking about with

the seed dying, multiplying great fruit, Practice

of dying to self is not just for individual spirituality.

This is one of the takeaways that I had for this.

Part of dying to ourselves is also how the church

functions. In a very real sense, if we all walk

in here with our own preferences, our own desires,

our own pet projects, and we refuse to die to

ourselves, around other believers, what you get

is a bunch of individual seeds in one bag that

don't grow. But if we are willing to die to ourselves

and let Christ be the one who sets that tempo,

like verse 26, if anybody serves me, he will

follow me. And where I am there, my servant will

be also. Then he will grow us together. Like

I think it's Colossians 1, growing up into Christ

who is the head of the church. But so, dude,

dying to ourselves in community, I think, can

be harder sometimes than dying to ourselves individually.

I can definitely see that in times where, especially

in church, that it can be so easy to become selfish

in how we want to worship God. And instead, the

church is a place to serve. We are the bride

of Christ, and we are to be here to help others

grow and to serve our Lord. And there could be

times that that can be difficult. I think it's

easy. to get in a church rut, you know, where

we do the same thing every week. And if we're

not careful, church does become tradition very

fast. You know, even just the getting up and

going, you know. And so that's something we have

to guard our hearts about, about like, is this

something where I have truly died to myself?

Yeah. And I am willing to go out there and realize

that I am here. The reason that I am at church

is to glorify God and to bring others closer

to him. Yeah, absolutely. And death to self is

the beginning. If it dies, it bears much fruit.

And I feel like that is definitely not a one

-time thing. Like, I'm not going to go out of

here and be like, Lord, show me all the idols

in my life so that I can die to myself. This

day, I'm dying to them all. Yes. Because, dude,

in the words of the prophet KB, your idols are

mimicking Jesus. You bury your sin in three days,

it's back up again. Huh? Your idols are mimicking.

I got it. I got it. I got it. Keep going. Keep

going. Like, I think that death to self is, I

mean, I think Jesus even says in the text we

quoted earlier, take up your cross daily and

follow him. You know what shows so clearly when

we're carrying our cross? Our weakness. Our inabilities

to carry it well. I think about Jesus. A couple

of days past our reading, we'll be into the passion

narrative where he buckles under the weight of

the wood on top of him. And I think that happens

to us sometimes too, man. as we're carrying our

cross, as we're doing the hard, heavy soul work

of asking the Lord to kill that flesh in us,

it can be really hard to carry that weight alone.

And I think that's another reason for community

in the church. The Lord is sufficient to kill

the idols in my life, to allow me to die to myself.

But as part of his design, he wants me to do

that in the community. Oh, we are absolutely

designed to be in community with each other,

especially in the church. Yeah. I mean, we are

supposed to be here to share each other's burdens,

to help each other through this journey. We can't

do it on our own. And even, I mean, is the church

imperfect? 100%. Are there people in the church

that are going to do something to upset you?

Guess what? We're all human. We're all flawed.

Absolutely. It's going to happen. And if it's

already happened, I'm here to tell you it's going

to happen again. That's what happens when you

have flawed humans. However, we're all on this

journey together from the top of the leadership

to the one that just walked in the door. We're

all in this journey together, and we are here

to be community and to guide each other as much

as we can. And so I think two takeaways that

I would love to give our people today and two

takeaways that I found for myself in this text

is, first of all, just very in line with what

we're saying, what are the areas that God is

calling you to die to yourself? Take that time

this week, maybe even hit and pause after this

podcast, and just asking the Lord, like, Holy

Spirit, will you show me the areas in my life

that you are calling me to be like this grain

of wheat? to fall to the earth and die? What

is choking out my relationship with you? And

actually, I was talking to somebody about this

passage earlier. And as a practical bit of advice

for those that are going through that, whatever

that thing is, when you've discovered what that

is, don't keep focusing on it. And what I mean

by that is, if you realize that you're struggling

with something, right? And you keep on telling

yourself, okay, don't do that, don't do that,

don't do that, don't do that, don't do that,

don't do that, don't do that. Well, guess what?

You're still thinking about it all the time.

Instead, focus on getting closer to Jesus. Because

what happens is whatever that thing you're struggling

with, it's good to recognize it, it's good to

pinpoint it, and it is great to realize this

is an area of struggle. We have to do that. After

that step, we go back to Jesus. Because what

happens is whatever that thing is, As you get

closer to Jesus and you get closer in his word

and the more that you abide in Jesus. the fruit

of the Spirit naturally comes. A hundred percent.

And as the fruit of the Spirit naturally comes,

that's when you're going to see those areas in

your life shrink. Where if you keep on waking

up every morning and instead of focusing on Jesus,

you're saying, okay, today I'm not going to do

this. Don't do this. Don't do this. Guess what?

You're going to be thinking about it all day

and you're going to struggle. Yeah. And I think

that's a very scriptural way to go about it.

The Book of Romans, like, do not be conformed

to the ways of this world. but be transformed

by the renewing of your mind. Or elsewhere, set

your mind on the things that are above where

Christ is. For to set your mind on the things

of flesh is death. It takes it that intense,

but to set your mind on Christ is life, and I

think a life abundantly. And so the other thing

that I wanted to point out to our people today

is this. If you see somebody around you, Like

a fellow brother or sister who is wrestling with

that dying process, who you see struggling to

bear their cross, help them carry it, man. Like

we were not made to do this alone. And if you

need some help carrying, take the courage through

the spirit to ask for help. Well, and that's

one of the things I was going to say to follow

up with that is that, especially when we go to

church, we're really good at putting on our happy

face. Cheese. How are you doing today? Oh, I'm

great. Living the dream. You're dying inside.

Straight up. And so, yes, we definitely, as ourselves,

we need to be honest with other people when they

ask us that question. But at the same time, if

we're genuine with the questions we ask people

and we're genuinely curious about the people

that we're around, we'll find out. 100%. So instead

of just doing the, oh, how are you doing this

morning? Why don't you ask some other questions

as well? And then the more questions you ask,

the more you'll get to the heart of how someone's

actually doing. And be willing to be brave with

safe people. Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. Well,

strange benediction for a podcast at the end,

but I will say, you pursuers, go and die. Yeah,

I'll let you say that. It's a little intense,

isn't it? It is, but in the context of the podcast,

it makes sense. Yes, yes it does. It's been fun.

I'm Ben Smith. I'm Sean Griffin, y 'all. I don't

know. I definitely can't replicate whatever I

did in the beginning because I don't remember

what it was. Well, we'll have to edit that and

post it. I'll see you guys next week. All right.

Love you guys. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Pursuing Jesus

is a ministry of Memorial Baptist Church in Norwood,

North Carolina.