On Denying Jesus

Well, good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon.

Good night, pandas. How are we doing? I feel

like we're still talking. So you know what's

really funny? Yeah, what's funny? So this is,

oh, I haven't talked about this, but this was

a while ago, maybe like a month ago. Tiffany

came to me and she said, you know, sometimes

on the podcast, you and Ben start talking really

slow and it really annoys me. What? I don't know

what was... But I do know sometimes we'll get

into that very like... Contemplative. Yeah, sentimental,

contemplative moment. And evidently, when we

do that, we talk really slow. That was really

hard for me to do right there. I mean, Sean,

I think when it comes down to it, Tiffany really

just... just needs to get on board. Because when

we talk super slowly, usually that means we are

drawing emphasis to important things. I now know

how the fox feels in Zootopia when he has to

go to the DMV. That was so painful. I watched

your ADHD kick into full gear. Oh my gosh, that

was so painful. Maybe you have an idea. Oh, my

gosh. That was difficult. That was very difficult

for me. I make no apology. Well, what's up, pandas?

Hello again. Oh, man. You know, it is a sunny,

hot day here in North Carolina. It is, and we

are currently a couple days out from Church at

the Lake. Yep. Or out past Church at the Lake.

Man, what an incredible day. Yeah. That was,

I'm still like, I still just been thinking about

it and thinking about how the Lord just moved

that day and the fellowship and just everything

was so good. I know you were just jazzed about

the free burgers. And preaching in flip -flops.

And preaching in flip -flops. I will tell you,

like there was a part of me that was like. I

bet I could get away with a hat today. You could

have. I could have. You absolutely could have.

But my wise conscience, my wife. Even like the

hat you're wearing right now. Yeah. Like it's

not. a baseball i mean it is like a it is technically

a baseball cap it is technically a baseball cap

but it is a fancier version i mean it's corduroy

it's got a rope on it it's embroidered it's true

you know it's not just it doesn't have it's not

a sports team that's what i'm saying i got you

it's more of a it's more of a stylish piece than

it is a representing of a team piece well when

uh we do church at the lake next year yeah you

know what You know what some people brought up?

What did they bring up? Springtime Church of

the Lake. Springtime Church of the Lake. How

do you think that we would differentiate that

from, like, regular Church of the Lake? We'd

call it Springtime Church of the Lake. This is

the same thing where, like, you ask somebody

to define a word and they use the word in the

definition? No. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean,

I think, you know, we haven't done it in the

past because it's right around Easter. Fair.

True facts. We've got a lot of busy stuff going

on around that time. But, you know, it's something.

We've never discussed off mic, so we probably

shouldn't discuss on mic. Oh, I'm keeping this.

Oh, absolutely. Well, I mean, for the people

that listen, give us your thoughts. Give us your

thoughts. Springtime, Georgia Lake. I do feel

like either spring or fall. Yeah. Like maybe

we skip Church of the Lake next year in the fall

and do it in the spring. Well, but that's the

thing, right? Because we only have that property

for a limited time until the developers start

to develop. Yeah, until they build the racetrack.

Yeah, it's coming to Norwood. It's coming to

Norwood. That's not true. That's not true. No,

I don't even... What did the developers... We

talked to the property owner. Yeah. What did

they say they were putting up there? A steamboat?

They purchased some kind of boat to put out there.

A steamboat, like an old school one with the

paddles and stuff. But no, on the property we

were at, they're going to be doing a restaurant.

They talked about doing a boardwalk. Are we supposed

to be talking about this on mic? Heck, I don't

know. Let's stop. I don't know. I don't know.

I want to keep using this property. I don't want

to make anybody mad. Something tells me that

the listeners of the Pursuing Jesus podcast don't

include the owner of that property. But hey.

If you're listening... We're glad you're here.

I want you to... I'm glad you're here, and I

want you to bring in one more restaurant into

Norwood. Just please, please, anything. Anything?

Any restaurant. Any restaurant. If they build

another Mexican restaurant, I'm going to lose

my mind. You got to be careful with those phrases.

Like an Italian place? Like some good Italian...

Oh, man. See, you're too new to know about Milano's.

You've heard the name, I'm sure. I've heard.

People have talked about Milano's, but that was

a great... But you see, I've been in Norwood

now so long that I remember Norwood with zero

Mexican restaurants. I don't know if I knew that

that was not a... I assume that that was a public

fixture of all of the restaurants. Here's the

interesting thing, though. For those who have

actually grown up here, the stucco building that's

next to the police department... That looks like

a rundown Mexican restaurant? It used to be a

Mexican restaurant. I don't know how long ago

that shut down. It was a while ago, before my

time. Somebody told me at one point Norwood had

a movie theater. That it was where Reservoir

used to be and stuff. Yeah, I think... I don't

think it was in Reservoir. I think it was the

one next to it. But you might be right as well.

But yes, one of those buildings was the local

theater. I would have loved for them to bring

that back. Just from an enjoyment of life perspective.

I think that would be sick. I agree. Imagine

seeing the new Spider -Man in the Norwood Community

Theater. That would be cool. Like with the wooden

bench seats and stuff? Yes. Like your back is

hurting like terribly when you leave. Pay 50

cents for a ticket. Smells like popcorn and bubble

gum rubbed around on the sole of a leather shoe.

Oh, I'm about that. Hey, well, we have an announcement.

We do have an announcement. Yeah, we want to

talk. We want to make sure our pandas are in

the loop for the rest of the year because we,

I mean, we are, it is today as we are recording,

September has come. Yeah, September has sprung.

Yes, it's here. And so we are getting into the

holiday season of the year where we're about

to get into a lot of stuff. Also, I have a vacation

coming up. Another vacation? Another? What do

you mean by another? Well, I mean, you're gone

all summer. Moving on before he continues to

rage bait me. Yeah, my vacation is coming up.

You're going to Slovakia for like two months.

Yep. No. Three weeks. We'll be in Slovakia. So

what Sean is so dutifully wrapping his mind around.

So after today, there will be two more podcasts.

Two more. On the 4th and 11th. Yes. And then

we're going to take a break. Yes, we're taking

a break. It's a month -long break. We talked

about doubling up and doing a crazy recording

schedule, but it's honestly just too much. And

so it's just going to be, we're going to take

a break. We're going off air. There will not

be a podcast released on Friday. for how many

weeks? Several. Several weeks. So we'll have

a podcast on September 11th. Yes. And then the

next podcast that will be released will be October

16th. There you go. So a month. A month. A full

month. Yeah, a full month that there will be

no podcast. Now, let's go ahead and look to the

future as well. Yes, the future. Because the

plan has always been that this podcast was a

one -year thing. Yeah. That's how it's all. We

started it. This was our 2026 goal. Thing. thing

to do a podcast or at least one once a week and

so um and that's currently still our plan which

means uh when 2026 ends we're off the air yeah

you know and i know for some of you maybe that's

a shock and um you know the patreon gets going

maybe we'll change our minds but you don't know

you you keep we keep joking about the patreon

i feel like and no one ever mentions it to me

outside of this room and i feel like uh somebody's

gonna approach us on january 21st or so and be

like hey i made you guys a patreon it's racked

up x amount of dollars I need new episodes. Listen,

if that literal conversation happens, I will

say, let's go. Let's do it. I feel like that's

extra wage. I feel like we still have to report

that to the IRS, don't we? Yeah, that's income.

That's income. I see. The issue will be reporting

it to the Lord then. Profiteering. I think Paul

calls that peddling the gospel. So hold on. If

you're going to open up this rabbit trail. Okay.

Because to me, that feels awfully similar also

to pastors getting paid. Different. All right.

So, I mean, I feel like... You're saying, so

someone cannot share the gospel and share theology

through a podcast and get paid for it. It can

only be done through a local church through tithes

and offerings? No, it just feels different to

me. There's a sense of like we're profiteering

off of our labor at the church for extra income.

like we're already we're on church time yeah

if you and i were sitting down after four o 'clock

i could make a case for our patreon support you

know i've never dangerous guitar habit and your

dangerous pokemon card habit i gotta hit today

i rest my case i've never thought about that

aspect of uh like doing it on company time if

you will for the average person on the lord's

time yeah I was going to say, no. Yeah, it's

when we're so interesting. I am heavily pro -paying

your pastors. Don't muggle me on. Don't muzzle

the ox. It treads the grain, man. Okay. I just

want to make sure we're all on the same page

here. All right. We can understand a little bit

of differences. And so basically, if they want

the podcast to continue in 2027, you need to

make a Patreon. You got to make a Patreon. And

you have to have accumulated. And then we got

to start recording at night. Yeah. But then it's

not the Memorial Baptist Church. No, it's the

pursuing Jesus podcast. It's the podcast formally

known as the memorial. This has gone off the

rails. All right. Okay, so we didn't finish the

announcement. So as many of you know that go

to our church, December gets crazy busy. Crazy.

And this year's no different with mine and Ben's

schedule. And so we are going to wrap up the

podcast of 2026 on December 4th. Yep. That's

going to be our last one. Now, we are looking

at trying to do some kind of fun Christmas episode.

or something. We want to have fun with it, but

that will be. The final one. So as we say that

we are going to the end of 2026, I just want

everybody to realize that for us and the busyness

of our schedule, that means December 4th. Yeah.

So we gave you some dates. Come back to this

episode to be reminded of these things, but we'll

let you know. But anyways, yeah, let us know

your feelings about all this, but that is our

current plans. That is our current plan. You

know what's going to happen, Sean, is that the

people are going to rise up. They're going to

raise this up on their shoulders like they did

Julius Caesar after he beat the Visigoths and

be like, more podcast. Et tu, Brute? Yeah, good

reference. I know that whole speech. That doesn't

surprise me. I actually love me some Shakespeare.

You know what I also love me some? God's word.

Jesus? Yep. Let's pursue him. Let's pursue him

into the text right now. Flawless transition.

You know, what episode are we on? This is episode

35. 35. I think our transitions have gotten better.

I'm so glad you think that. I don't agree, but

I'm glad you think so. That feels the same as

like in the Spider -Man movie where it's the

three of them and it's like, I love you, man.

And they're like, thank you. All right. Today

we're going to talk about. kind of the Peter

denying Jesus scene from like Jesus' trial. Yeah.

And we split it up into two days, August 31st

and September the 2nd. Yeah. I'm kind of going

to, I did kind of treat them as, and I'm going

to treat them as as we talk about them, sort

of one thing. Yeah. So I feel like a lot of people

come to this text with a very kind of critical

spirit. Like, come on, Peter. But you know, I

think, and we do that a lot of times with a lot

of scripture too. And I think this is a great

example. Also, the Old Testament and the Israelites.

Oh, yeah. Like Book of Judges, it's like, dudes,

get your stuff together. Yeah, yeah. And it's

one of those things that kind of going back to

a theme that we've had on this podcast of that

whenever we read Scripture, our inclination is

many times to have that attitude or to put the

stories on somebody else. Yeah, to point the

finger. But we know that God's Word is supposed

to be a mirror. And it's supposed to be something

that we reflect back to us. And so that's our

hope with as we look at this passage today and

as we look at all of them, that, man, y 'all

try to avoid that pitfall of putting scripture

on somebody else or looking at the characters

in this way. But, man, really look at yourself.

Yeah. And it doesn't necessarily mean like read

yourself into the text. No, that's different.

It's very different. But it does mean what does

this text say about me rather than what does

this text say about my homeboys? Application,

baby. Application, baby. Sean, you mind if I

read this bad boy? This is one of those rare

accounts where you get it in all four Gospels.

I would really love to start with the Luke one,

but I'm going to crawl through several elements

of multiple of these. Go ahead and dungeon crawl

through it. It's Luke 22, 54 through 65. And

again, I'm combining the Luke texts from the

31st and the 2nd. Verse 54 says, And then they

seized him, who was Jesus, and led him away,

bringing him into the high priest's house. And

Peter was following at a distance. And when they

had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard

and sat down together, Peter sat down among them.

Then a servant girl, seeing him as he sat in

the light and looking closely at him, said, This

man was also with him. But he denied it, saying,

Woman, I do not know him. And a little later

someone else saw him and said, You also are one

of them. But Peter said, Man, I am not. And then

after an interval of about an hour, still another

insisted, saying, Certainly this man was also

with him, for he too is a Galilean. But Peter

said, Man, I do not know what you are talking

about. And immediately while he was still speaking,

the rooster crowed. And the Lord turned and looked

at Peter. And Peter remembered the saying of

the Lord, how he had said to him before the rooster

crows today, you will deny me three times. And

he went out and he wept bitterly. Sometimes this

can be so hard to read, dude. You know, as you

were reading, I was kind of reading along with

you, but then at the end I was kind of just scrolling

ahead in my brain, and I just keep looking at

verse 62, right? Yeah. And he went outside and

wept bitterly. I mean, just the picture of this

guy, Peter, the rock. The guy that, you know,

we know what he's going to do. We know who he

has been in the group of the disciples, the apostles.

Right. And to see him just utterly break down

because he realizes, like, you know, because

as it just says, like, Jesus has already had

this conversation with him. He told them this

was going to happen, and he's like, there's no

way I won't do that. Right. And then you could

just see it. He just realizes what happens and

just breaks. It's a very emotional moment. It

is. I get the impression, just from reading this,

and then from the past couple of weeks as we've

done the lead -up to Jesus' crucifixion and stuff,

which is yet to come in, I think, probably the

next episode or two away. But as I've read through

this, At this moment in time, this verse 62,

he goes out, he weeps bitterly. Peter's whole

life has fallen apart. So think about this from

a long -term perspective. So Peter was a businessman.

He was a fisherman. Peter has a family. He's

got a wife. We don't know whether he had kids

or not, but we know he had a mother -in -law.

He sets all that aside because Jesus meets him

and says, follow me and I will make you a fisher

of men. Peter has been following Jesus and doing

this for like three years. Like, like, like seasons

have passed. He has seen Jesus in the winter

and the summer and the spring. Like he's walked

with Jesus. Peter was one of the guys that Jesus

sent out and gave authority to cast demons out

and heal the sick. Like Peter was there for the

sermon on the Mount. Peter was there for Jesus

saying, Lazarus come out of the tomb. And he

watched Jesus raise this guy from the dead. Healed

his mother -in -law. Yeah. Peter, Jesus healed

Peter's mother -in -law. Peter was one of the

first guys, not the first, but one of the first

guys to say it like, where else would we go?

You are the Messiah, right? And so finally, Passion

Week comes, although Peter doesn't know it, right?

And Jesus tells him the kingdom of heaven is

at hand. Jesus switches from saying, my time

has not yet come to my time has come. Jesus prays

this massive prayer over his disciples. And he

begins to tell them what's going to happen. You

know, the Son of Man is going to be dragged before

the high priests and be killed, and Peter will

not have it. You got to remember, he's coming

at this from, like, Jesus is the Messiah, which

means he's going to overthrow Roman rule perspective.

He's going to set up his kingdom like King David

and rule on that throne forever. And Jesus even

tells him, like, dude, strap on your sword. And

so Peter does. And they go into the garden, and,

of course, you have the scene where... Peter

cuts off the high priest servant's ear. Jesus

puts it right back on. Peter's whole world is

falling apart because he is seeing the one who

he trusted and the one who he's assuming was

about to take like authority and rulership of

Israel tried and beaten and dragged in front

of the high priest. And I'm sure there would

have been confusion there of like, these guys

are the religious elite. Like if anybody should

recognize the Messiah, it should be them. And

so like, We could talk about Peter's weakness

or Peter's fear, and those are both there. But

one of the things that struck me is this guy's

world is falling apart. And I think that we can

respond that way too sometimes. Like when things

really go south and our world is falling apart,

one of the other gospel narratives says that

the third time that Peter denies Christ, he calls

down a curse on himself. which is less like saying

a cuss word and more like saying, may Yahweh

curse me if this is not true. And it's like his

whole world is shattered. Like why not take it

the rest of the way, man? But I think that we

have that impulse in us too. Like when difficulty

strikes us, one of the first things that we do

is deny Christ. Not from like a persecution,

like gun to our head perspective, but like when

we're hurting. Like the very first place that

I tend to go is, God, where are you? Yeah. Have

your promises ever been true? Because they don't

feel true in this moment. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind

of like what I talked about this past Sunday

of that feeling of isolation when we go to those

places. And if we allow that to continue without

seeking the Lord, it can send us to a dark place.

It can. And like Peter was. Seeking the Lord.

He was right there with them. And I think it

can be easy to lean on times of closeness with

the Lord and say, well, yeah, when the times

of famine comes, I'll stick with you. But it's

the least easy thing, man. Yeah. And I'm hoping

that when we get back to the... Jesus restoring

Peter that we can talk about the restoration

thing. Yeah. Oh yeah. We'll have to go talk about

that. But my primary focus here was just like,

like, what does it look like when a man breaks?

Yeah. You know, you wonder what else was like,

like surprise. What else stood out to me as a,

as that I had not read or that I hadn't realized

before. What's that? The John account puts another

disciple there. Okay. Had never thought about

that before. John 18, 15, Simon Peter followed

Jesus, and so did another disciple. And since

that disciple was known to the high priest, he

entered with Jesus into the courtyard. Peter

stood outside the door. The other disciple, who

was known to the high priest, went out and spoke

to the servant girl who kept watch of the door

and brought Peter in. The servant girl at the

door said to Peter, you are not also one of his

disciples, are you? And he said, I am not. Like,

Peter was already identified as he was walking

in. Yeah. And he was probably sitting talking

with this other disciple of Jesus who was known

to the high priest. And so, like, even with all

the facts pointing towards I am associated with

Jesus, he's still like, no. No, that's not me.

That's not me. Who do you think this other disciple

was, Sean? Just from the way it is written, I

would say John. It feels like John, right? Yeah,

because during his gospel, anytime he comes up,

he doesn't really refer to himself. He refers

to himself as another disciple. Yeah. And also,

set in wintertime, had not really thought about

that either. Like they made a fire because it

was cold. Yeah. It feels like the desolate and

the desolation and the bleakness kind of fit

the scene here. Verse 61 of the Luke account

is also crazy to me. Like Peter denies. Jesus,

and Jesus turns and looks at him. Oh, man. Yeah.

It's like that gentle reminder, you know, of,

and like I said, I mean, in verse 61, when he

turned and looked, so Peter remembered. Yeah.

It's that reminder. But us knowing the heart

of Jesus. We know that the look that he's giving,

it's not one of disappointment. It's not a how

dare you. No. It's a loving reminder look. And

also, it's interesting to know that while he

is denying him, he is in view of Jesus. Yeah.

Because it's one thing for us to do things behind

someone's back. or why they're not there, but

like, you know, in Jesus, he is in the vicinity,

you know? Yeah. That he is actively looking at

Jesus and also saying, no, I don't know this

guy. Yeah. You know, but once again, I mean,

not throwing shade at him, but looking at ourselves,

I mean, how often do we get in positions where

our faith is tested? Are we going to stand firm

and say, yeah, that's my God, that's my Lord?

Or are we going to... fall to the pressures of

the world and the people around us. Well, that's

a good question to bring up. So, like, most of

our listeners are here in 21st century America

in Stanley County. Like the odds of any of the

people who are listening to this episode walking

into a room having a gun placed to their head

and saying, deny Christ or die, those odds are

low. That extreme, yes, it is low. What does

it look like for 21st century believers in Stanley

County to deny Christ? And that's why I prefaced

that degree, because I do hear stories from our

students of teachers that they have that are

very anti -gospel, anti -Bible, and who are literally

trying to teach them another spiritual truth.

I hear from adults who... want to share their

faith at work, but they have someone there who

has had a terrible experience and refuses conversations

and curses God's name. And so yes, the persecution

that we deal with... the majority of the time

in our culture where we live, it looks different.

It looks like standing firm against someone else's

beliefs. It looks like standing firm against

someone else's emotions. And that no matter what

is said, we never waver on the name of Jesus.

And so, yeah, it absolutely looks different.

But one of the things that I like to tell our

students is just because your persecution doesn't

involve a death threat, it doesn't mean you don't

experience true persecution. Yeah, true. It's

just a different form. Like, yes, and so many

times we can make ourselves feel bad or someone

else can make you feel bad because like, oh man,

there's Christians in other parts of the world

or in other parts of the country that they're

being threatened because of their beliefs, right?

But it doesn't mean that your persecution is

not real. It's just on a different level. And

still, you have to have the courage to stand

firm on your faith. But this also goes back to

apologetics and why it's so important for you

to know why you believe what you believe. I want

to piggyback on that a little bit. I'm so glad

you took this direction because I was kind of

thinking along those lines too. In my conversations

with unbelievers, particularly when things have

gotten heated, but even where it's remained civil,

non -Christians tend to define Christianity as

a list of do's and don'ts. Like, okay, so because

you're a Christian, you're not going to smoke

weed with me. Okay, because you're a Christian,

you are going to go to church. Because you're

a Christian, you aren't going to do this, or

you're going to vote a certain way, which, like,

that's another thing in and of itself. One thing

that I feel like when we face persecution or

difficulty because of who we believe, one of

the ways that we can stand firm on Christ is

not to defend the behaviors Christians are supposed

to have, but rather engage with the person of

Jesus himself. It doesn't matter. So many of

the moral, cultural, hot -button issues that

Christians are supposed to take, as important

as those are, they're secondary to the person

of Jesus Christ. Um, and so like those conversations

that I have been in where we get to, where we

can shift the focus from Ben. Oh, well, don't

make that joke around Ben. He's not going to

laugh. It's like, I probably won't, but why won't

I? Yeah. And I think that why matters too, because

we can in standing firm for Christ, we can make

the mistake of defending the principle rather

than like, like actually talking about the King.

It's like, well, I don't do that because I'm

a Christian and because Christians don't do that.

It's like, whoa. Yeah. I don't do that because

I used to be a sinner. I used to be in the same

boat as you, dude. And whether I would laugh

at that joke then or now or not, like Christ

has redeemed me from my own personal vices and

difficulties. And so it's not about what I do

or I don't do. And if you want to persecute me

for what I do or I don't do, that is your prerogative.

But the love of Christ that he has shown to me

is what... motivates me is what actually helps

me endure persecution um and oftentimes responding

in persecution that way surprises people they

expect to fight you know um but responding like

with love the way that christ did is kind of

the whole point i mean i mean the first century

christians essentially spread their religion

by dying for it yeah The love that Christians

showed to the poor, not just their poor, but

to others. The forgiveness they showed to their

captors and to their executioners was one of

the primary things that drew like a whole empire

of people to Christ in the first place. Yeah,

and this is one of the things that I really encourage.

I encourage my students and the people that I

talk to when it comes to things like this for

standing up for your faith is, you know, anytime

someone comes up to you and they're going to

have this confrontational attitude, you know,

instead of engaging with that, ask them their

story. Ooh, that's a good one. There's a reason

that they are being so passionate with what they

believe or what they're saying or even with their

anger. So instead of engaging and... And getting

rage baited like Ben likes to do to me. That's

a two -way street. Ask them their story. Dude,

that's so good. Yeah. That we point, we ask people

about their stories when they get angry. Because

here's the deal. Jesus looks at the people who

deny him. Jesus looks them in the eyes. And it's

like you said, it's not with condemnation. It

is an invitation to relationship. And there's

pain there, right? Because when we deny Christ,

we have to be honest with ourselves that that's

what we've done. But it is with the intent of

restoration. And I have no doubt that that's

what Jesus is thinking about here. Peter, I still

believe that you're this rock that I'm going

to build my church on. The Lord allowed this

to happen to teach Peter about being watchful

and about standing on his faith. And that's the

thing to remember. When we get into these times

where we are in the valleys, as I said on Sunday,

are you going to use those opportunities to grow

in your faith, to push closer to Jesus? Because

that's what we see here with Peter. is even though

he sees what has happened, as we said earlier,

we're going to see the restoration happen, but

he grows from this. Yes. And that's what the

Lord wants to see in us is when we're going through

these difficult times or when we've, man, we

didn't respond the way we know we should have.

Use it as a growth experience. My dad would always

say, never waste a good crisis. I mean, there's

truth. There's truth to that. And so Peter weeps

bitterly now so that when they crucify him upside

down at the end of his life, he can say, no,

I'm not worthy to die the same way that Jesus

did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Pursuers, this has been

definitely a heavier episode, but I think a good

episode. And definitely one where slow talk was

needed. You're a punk, Sean. I had to lighten

the mood, man. Dang, that was heavy. Thank you

guys for listening. We love you guys. We've got

a couple more weeks and we're going to take a

break here. We'll probably beat that drum for

the next couple of weeks. We'll keep on reminding

you because we'd hate for someone to hop in and

go, where are you guys at? We're taking a break.

We're on a break. We'll catch you later pursuing

Jesus, Pandas. Bye, Pandas. Later. Pursuing Jesus

is a ministry of Memorial Baptist Church in Norwood,

North Carolina.