Episode 018 - Podcast | Love Stronger Than Death On All Souls Day

Hello and welcome everyone to Heart of the Homily Podcast, where we hope the message from Sunday goes from the pew into your week, into your life.

And I'm here with Father Vigoa and I'm Michelle Lopez.

We're from St.

Augustine Church.

So how are you doing, Father?

I'm doing well, Michelle.

Good to be back.

Yes, good to be back.

Another week.

Another week.

And actually this past weekend was very special.

Yesterday was All Souls Day.

So many.

Yeah, which is beautiful.

Very odd.

It doesn't always happen like that.

So it was wonderful to focus on just that feast day and the special moment it is for the church to look at all those who have gone that are faithfully departed.

So I wanted to start us off by a little like snippet from your homily.

Sure.

So kind of this is what we're going to be talking about.

The world tells us to run from death, to avoid it, to hide it, to deny it.

But the church says, stop, look, and remember.

Today isn't about despair, it's about truth.

Because death doesn't end the story.

Love does.

And if you listen closely to the homily and to what we're going to talk about, even in the silence of grief, you'll hear heaven whisper, there is more.

Wow, you summed it up.

I kind of summed it up.

And that's the end.

See you next week.

See you next week.

No, but I wanted to sum it up because there's so much richness to your homily.

Um, but you know, to give a little taste of what we're gonna talk about.

Yeah, you it's a beautiful thing uh to celebrate all souls on a Sunday.

Uh that of course, uh more times than not, it's during a weekday.

So and it's it's a curious thing because I I even sent out a liturgical note to all of the priests saying remount reminding them that there's no gloria on Sunday for All Souls Day.

I don't know if people catch that, you know, they're in the pews and we we do the penitential rite or the penitential act, but then we go right into the opening prayer, no gloria.

And the church does that because uh all souls, when it lands on a Sunday, it's almost like a Sunday in Lent.

It it takes on that penitential vibe or that penitential, um, how do you say it?

Um, feeling of almost like if you're in Lent.

And uh and so it it's it's a powerful thing when it lands on Sunday and we're able to gather as a parish family and to pray for those who have gone before us, but also All Souls Day is not just remembering those who have gone before us, but and what I tried to to communicate in the in the homily there that it's also remember what it means to live.

Really a way to to honor those that have passed is to look at how are we living.

And really that question is like Yeah.

And really that's where like I think grief meets meets hope, like you've um talked about in your homily.

Um so maybe we can hop right in because you you started your homily by sharing a little bit about um a quote from Steve Steve Jobs, which I would love to know like where did that come from?

You know, where was that inspiration? 'Cause it was it was powerful and I I haven't heard um comments from from him like that.

Right.

And um I had heard that commencement speech or I had read about it years ago, and it just I remembered it.

I remember that he he got, I think it was pancreatic cancer and died pretty quickly, but he had that moment in time where he was able to really think about uh his mortality.

And I think it's a lesson for everyone because here's this guy who was a a billionaire who really changed the world.

I like to tell people the life changed in 2007.

And they say, why?

Why did how did life change in 2007?

Um the smartphone.

Yeah.

It was in 2007 that we started carrying yeah, we started carrying a personal computer in your pocket.

Yeah.

Text messaging everyone, you have all the information that you want at your fingertips, and and and really truly be we are now slaves to this uh this apparatus, this machine that we carry around.

If you look around, everybody's on a on a phone.

You go to a restaurant, couples aren't even talking to, they're on their phones.

It's like your third hand.

Yeah, and so Steve Jobs changed the world in 2007, just like what the electricity did, just like what the car, what airplanes did.

2007, smartphones changed the world.

And so you have this guy, this this guy who's a genius who uh comes before these graduates and and I'll I'll just paraphrase, but he says, um, in the face of death, all fear of embarrassment, pride of failure disappears.

Death is the great equalizer, and for us Christians, well, he didn't say that, I said this is the great revealer.

Um but he he was talking to the graduates, uh talking to them of this clarity that he got, understanding that I'm gonna be no more pretty soon.

I'm gonna be taking my last breath.

And I I'm looking back at my life and I'm I'm saying, all that stuff that I worried about, everything that that I that kept me up at night and and thinking about what others thought of me or or whatever it is, don't mean a hill of beans because I can't take it with me, right?

Yeah, and that I mean, even that truth that death makes us think about like the big and important things in life.

Um and for us Christians that death isn't the end, it's it's the doorway.

It's um it's meaningful.

And that's kind of the twist Christian twist to that um quote, I think, of his.

And and the thing is that a lot of Christians, because you just said a lot of Christians uh realize that that is the doorway.

But my question today is how many Christians understand that?

Or they a st they understand it in theory, but when you have to live it, when a parent dies, a sibling, or God forbid, a child or something, uh Michelle, you've gone through very painful episodes in your life with the loss of your children.

And so um where do how do you get to that point where you really truly understand this is who I am in the sense that this is w it's everything that I believe, right?

Because the way I live my life, the way that I function, the way that I respond to the world is based on this premise.

Yeah, absolutely.

Right?

Yeah, and I think that's um, you know, especially our faith gives us the lens through which to see life and death.

Right.

And I think when confronted with death, we have to remember that our faith gives us the lens through which to understand and interpret and even embrace and walk through you know, grief.

And I know for myself uh an important thing has been really knowing that grief is, you know, the experience of all these different emotions that are just the human experience of loss and it's not a bad thing.

And um but the way that we mourn is like the the choice that we make.

Right.

Grief is the pain of letting go.

Yes, and so mourning, we have to mourn as Christians.

And I think a lot of people don't know that mourning is how what we choose to do with our grief, like the direction that we give it, and really allowing our faith to teach us how to mourn in a way that brings hope and it brings uh peace, as well as knowing that you know, life is a gift.

No one's owed tomorrow.

That's right.

And I'm not owed tomorrow, I'm not owed today.

Um, but how do I begin to live in the present moment with gratitude and with um the lens of even death does not take away everything, right?

But even death is a doorway.

And that's what I was trying to talk about is how how do we live that?

How do we really truly live that?

Because a lot of people, and yeah, I I'm I'm guilty of that too.

We get caught up in in this world and in the things that fade.

And um I'll tell you this: uh a lot of people who come to see me and and have loss, or or even at that time when they're preparing a funeral, and you can always tell the people who practice a faith, who have a relationship with Jesus, and I'm not making judgment, death is hard, uh a crisis and and it's uh it's a tragedy, and people um respond differently.

But in general, what I'm trying to say is that those people who have a solid relationship with the Lord see the whole process differently.

Yes, they're grieving, but it's not the type of grieving like what St.

Paul is telling his communities, don't grieve like those who don't have hope.

Um, where because something a tragedy happens or a death in the family happens or a friend, uh those who are are not close to the Lord, they they will shut down.

They will want to go into a corner, uh, go into a wall, and just want to die themselves.

And um and that's hard, and my my heart aches for those people.

And I've tried many times to help people in those situations, and it's hard.

Yeah, it's definitely hard.

And it's and it's an invitation, I think, when tragedy happens in real life, especially death, it's kind of like that moment, like um Steve Jobs, being able to step back and ask big questions about who am I, who am I, who is God, like how am I living my life, what is life all about.

Um, and at the heart of our faith is um is death in life.

You know that the heart of the gospel is Jesus' death and his resurrection.

Yeah, because I think what you're trying to say, like Steve Jobs, he used that, his his mortality or or his coming to the with grips of his impending death, he saw it as a way to focus, right?

To see, okay, what's important in my life, uh, where do I go from here?

What what do I want to leave?

What what kind of message do I want to leave the world?

But for the Christian, it's more of this is a threshold.

Exactly what you're talking about, right?

Yeah.

And that is not easy.

I I can't say that, okay, oh, okay, I have a relationship with Jesus, everything falls into place and I understand everything completely and fully.

No, that's not it either.

Right?

Um also that'd be boring.

Well, the thing is that he, you know, being a Christian does not guarantee you're not gonna have heartache and difficulties and frustrations and doubts and and lack of faith.

No, you're gonna have all of that.

Yeah.

The death of a loved one he's experienced himself with, you know, Lazarus and other people in his life.

Um but then also like Jesus died and he rose again.

And that that reality, that faith that we might know in our head and it's familiar, only in a moment of that being experienced in our life in a particular way can we actually like enter into what that mystery means and like what it's says to us and like hear God speak to us about it in a really powerful way.

So I think that's kind of the invitation of Christians grieving differently is knowing that like there's an invitation here of like knowing God's heart and grief and and sorrow, but also in like this promise of eternal life, like that becoming more real and concrete because of this moment, you know, and knowing that God is close to us, walking us through it and with it, um, to come out to taste the resurrection on the other side.

I think it's it's building on what we've talked about all these weeks.

It's that foundation that you have to have um because that it it can be the rug can be pulled out from under you at any moment.

Um and so how do I build that life where I I'm persevering, I'm being faithful, I I I'm putting Christ as a priority in my life, number one.

And um why because when there is a problem and there is a tragedy, then when there's a crisis, if you don't have that solid footing, it it just can unravel pretty quickly.

Yeah.

But if you've done the homework and you're there, it it's it's that grace that God gives you to be able to endure and persevere and go through it.

Why?

Because as you said a little bit a while ago, is Christ went through it and he shows us how to go through it.

Right?

Yeah.

And I think it's beautiful of the church, like you were kind of mentioning in our humli, that um the church focuses us to look at death, you know, right as we celebrate those who've gone before us, but also remember that we're mortal too.

Like that um that our time, kind of like what you were saying in your humli, that one thing that's guaranteed is everyone in this room is gonna die at some point, you know, like something that we all share, it's part of human experience.

Um and I think in our culture, we don't want to think about that.

No one wants to think about that.

And we want to like hide it away and be and even be ashamed when it touches us in our life.

Yeah.

Tragedy or with people.

Um but again, the the Christian, like, death is not the end.

And so it's something that you know in our own life we we have to think and pray about and be able to know that um it helps ground us in reality, that you know what we celebrate in all souls is that life is a gift and that our time is l is limited, you know?

Yeah, and and I think that the church from the very beginning has always been very good about reminding us.

Think about Lent.

When we start Lent on Ash Wednesday, yeah.

We start Lent on Ash Wednesday and and we're reminded right there as we receive the ashes on the forehead, you are dust, and to dust you shall return.

It's finite.

It's gonna end one day.

And what's that relationship with?

Like it is it have I been preparing for that ultimate face-to-face where I hope to see the glory of God.

And and something that I said yesterday at the homily was that we celebrate the promise of Jesus Christ.

You will be with me for all eternity, all eternity.

And and that's I think that's how we need to live.

We get caught up in in all of this, and and again, it's that whole Steve Jobs 2007 it has compounded uh comparing ourselves to others, looking at what this has, what what what they have, what and um oh, I don't have that, or or my life is not is not good because I don't I don't do this, or whatever it is.

I would love to just recenter and refocus, like Steve Jobs was saying, this death kind of refocused my life.

How do we refocus people's attention to say, this is the most important?

I promise you, you will find fulfillment, you will find happiness if you just step away from a world that wants to distract you where the enemy wants to continue to say, Come on, enjoy it all, take what you can.

You get to decide whatever you want, go ahead and take it.

You want that, go for it.

You want to do this, go for it.

Do whatever you want.

And and there's that whole our culture bigger is better, and more is is better, and and so it's dangerous.

It's really dangerous.

And so, how do we leave that at the door and really come into uh the church and practice our faith where we look at death right in the face and say, you've been defeated.

You have been defeated by our Lord Jesus Christ, and I now live differently because I understand that.

I understand where I'm going, and every uh how I live and how I behave and how I conduct my life is contingent to that one promise that you give.

I want to be with you for all eternity.

Because that day will come.

It's guaranteed.

We don't like to think about it, right?

It's guaranteed.

Nobody likes to think about that.

Yeah, and I think that's um part of the invitation of our faith too, is that um we want to get to a place where it's not something that's like the most scariest thing in the world.

You know, it's like I think that's also the culture looks at it as like, oh my gosh, don't think about this because it's so scary.

Or like, you know, in our Christian faith, like if death is a doorway, um, and if we've reflected on it and are living in a way knowing that that is a part of our human experience, like then it's gonna even change our approach to it.

You know, we're okay, well, death is gonna happen.

So like being able to prepare our hearts now so that we don't, you know, fear it when it, you know, when that moment comes, you know.

That reminds me of John Chrysalisom, his Easter homily.

And he you know, he says, Oh death, where is your sting, right?

Hell, where is your victory?

Uh Christ is risen and uh you have been overthrown.

Um and it's exactly what you're saying.

And again, it's it's this it's our church and her her love and her beauty to keep reminding us of these truths.

Yeah, and you know what comes to mind is um actually what came to mind was when um our son John Paul passed away when we were in the hospital.

Um I remember, you know, again, very like hard couple hours of realizing like that he was gonna pass and um really preparing for that, and it was really a great blessing because we were able to kind of prepare for it, you know, knowing that he was going to pass this night.

And I I feel like I got a little taste of what it meant to have this this grief, but like with this profound hope because I could hand him back with hope, knowing because I I knew who he was going to.

But how do you know that, Michelle?

Like you guys were so strong.

I was so blessed to be in that room with your whole family, and it was such beauty.

Uh even the air, everything just was there was joy.

And and in a one of the saddest moments of your life, and how do you guys do that?

Well, I think it's the journey before that moment.

Right, exactly.

And small ways and in big ways, continuing to put our faith first and being able to say, like, okay, Lord, I want to grow more, and really pressing into the truths of our faith that we know in our head, but allowing them to go to our heart as we experience, you know, different highs and lows of our life, of our story.

And I think with our son, you know, you know, I think for me was calling to mind these great truths of our faith that night of like, okay, Lord, like first, he belongs to you first.

And he was a gift given.

And now I know I'm being called to give him back to you.

And do you believe that in your heart completely?

Yeah, entirely.

Yeah.

And I think the beautiful thing is But uh what I'm saying is that did you believe that at that moment of grief?

Because it's easy to understand it a couple hours later, a couple days later, and say, Lord, I'm returning him back to you.

But in that that very difficult moment where he's about to slip away forever.

Well, I think I'm I I was given the grace to be able to believe that.

But I think it's because God prepared me.

Yeah.

And I was paying attention.

Yeah.

God was preparing my heart, knowing that his life was going to be short anyways, but um, God prepared my heart to learn to live more abundantly in the present moment, to know that life is short.

That's for my son, but also like my own life, you know, like life is so short.

But it's a gift and it's a gift to be stewarded well.

And I think with our son handing him back that night, it was with this great confidence and and really like encountering the Lord's love and this mix of like him weeping with us, knowing that like, you know, he's weeping with us because death sucks.

Like death is not a part of the original plan, you know.

Right.

And I think knowing that he was with us in our sorrow, but then because of that, like this is why our faith means everything.

Like, that's not the end of the story.

Because of Jesus, the story does not end there.

It doesn't end at the grave.

There's the hope and the no and the knowledge that like the resurrection, the eternal life is to come.

And so I think that was the experience that night of of handing him over, knowing the loving father that we were giving him to, and then also knowing, like, this is not a goodbye.

This is like I will see you one day.

Yeah.

I will be welcomed with you welcomed um and awaited by you in heaven.

And that whole mystery and stepping into that with my heart and also with my head.

Um did you feel love and embraced in that moment?

I did.

It was one of the most beautiful moments of my life.

I know it sounds like super weird.

I know.

And the reason why I asked you that is because I know that.

I know that of you guys, and I remember um the at at the the eulogy that you and your husband did, but you hadn't you guys had mentioned that feeling such love at that moment.

Yeah, the Lord embraced us with such love and tenderness.

And so really it was like this celebration of again handing him back to who he belongs to first.

Yeah.

And and really knowing that um this isn't the ultimate end.

And that's that hope, that anchor of hope that gives promise, that gives life, that gives joy.

And also knowing that's what our life is about, you know, like we're we gave we gave him back to the father, which is also where we want to go one day too.

Now, let me and we're getting super personal today.

I I think our audience is getting a lot of uh beautiful uh fruit from this, but I want to ask you a personal question.

And the reason why I ask you this, and I know that I can ask you this, because you've been so open with our parishioners and you teach so well, and it's not just by words, by by your example, and you know, you're the director for the evangelization, a director for for campus ministry.

And so I think that if you're not living by example, then it just can't be words.

But my question is um, did you know you were pregnant during that very difficult moment when you were saying goodbye to John Paul?

Oh, no, we did not.

You did not know you were pregnant.

We didn't know.

So we found out we were pregnant with Avi Lab um probably almost like a solid month after that.

Oh, a solid month.

Yeah, about a month after that because um yeah, I we weren't actively kind of trying, and we were in the hospital for about a week.

And so and actually that was one of the most beautiful things is when we realized we were pregnant, we looked back at the pictures that were taking of our goodbye to John Paul when he passed, and we were like, Oh my gosh, there's two.

We have two at the same time.

Wow.

You know, as I was holding John Paul and I was pregnant then, and so it was like a real beautiful gift to us to be like, okay, we had two at once.

Like, what a gift.

What a gift.

Um and then also, you know, as we realized that Avila was such a uh a different miracle.

Um our others are miracle, and she's just a different type of miracle.

Well, let me tell you, is God doesn't tire of giving gifts, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And uh just I was with you guys last night and and she's so affectionate.

I was so sweet.

Oh my gosh.

She's the sweetest.

She's the sweetest.

But you know, I loved how um i i just to to to keep on the subject here, but how we need to pray for the dead.

Yeah, right?

Yeah.

And and I I mentioned in the homily how I have stood at empty graves there, you know, where there's a hole where the the casket's about to be lowered down.

And I have fought back tears too.

It it's some of these uh wake services are just so uh our graveside services are so painful, but um but I always remember I'm I'm I'm there with the family and I'm looking down at this hole and I'm like, it's not about this hole, it's about the promise that Jesus Christ makes to us.

Right?

And you know, we pray for the dead and and we're saying love doesn't end here in this hole.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah, and even the emotion that's felt at death is it's a good thing.

When you love deeply, like you experience deeply the loss, but then that has to be anchored in the truth of the hope that there will be a hello again.

It's not the end, it's it's a see you later.

Um and even that um yeah, something that I I've always thought about that um you know, in Maccabees, th they they pray for the dead.

They they may be delivered from sin.

And so uh incredible our faith that it doesn't just it doesn't go back to like the Middle Ages or uh Europe, but it it started all the way even before Christ, this foreshadowing of how we need to pray for our dead.

Yeah, and I think what you said in your homily was that it's like a love language, to love a language in which we can love recognizes love.

Yeah, and that our prayers go beyond the grave for them, um, and that we stay connected.

And that's and that's beautiful to know that we can that we're connected beyond.

Um why do you think people uh avoid death or even talking about death?

Well, I think it's it makes it people uncomfortable because maybe you know, if if they did think about their death, then it would make them change a lot of things because we're living in a like an illusion.

Right.

Like And I know for me before, you know, I really was um a a a faithful Christian practicing my faith, you know, death was like you don't talk about it, like you don't think about it.

Even when I had friends that passed, it was very much like, okay, we're there, but then we're moving on, I don't want to talk about it.

Part of it was because I didn't know what to do with my grief, I didn't know what to do with the pain.

Um but also, you know, I didn't want to think about that like And did you notice when P and when uh and I you know I I don't want to keep talking about John Paul, but when um when he passed, did you have friends or family that didn't want to talk about it or didn't even acknowledge it? 'Cause I know that that happens as well.

And then that's also that that real painful way, I don't want to deal with this, I don't want to look at it, I don't want to confront it.

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't know what to do with death, and so I and confronted many different scenarios, I think, of of family and people that weren't sure what to do with it, but I think that was an opportunity for us to give them the invitation, the direction that we were heading and to invite them to join us, to know that um yes, there's a sadness to this death, but there's a joy in the promise.

And really to invite people along with us, you know, and know that the way in which we honor John Paul, like with all of our kids, it's been like I want to honor them by becoming a saint after.

Yeah.

You know, like their life didn't destroy me, you know, like their death did not destroy me, but it actually made me to be so stronger, stronger in the face.

Yeah.

And I think that's what we have to wrestle with when we, you know, have a loved one that passes.

Um our loved one wouldn't want us to become a awful version of ourself, you know, because of their passing.

You know, like you want the passing to be a launch forward into becoming fully alive, into becoming the man or woman God's created you to be.

And really making that decision of like that's how you're gonna mourn.

You're gonna mourn by honoring their life and becoming the best version of yourself.

Yeah, and like, you know, I'm famous of always saying that we don't we live on this earth for three days and it goes by really quick.

And it does.

Kind of podcast, Father.

Yeah, I know we're almost we always like run out of time.

I could talk forever.

But one of the things I just wanted to mention was I was so impressed and um of the men, the 70 plus men that were on our weekend retreat, and then they they came to the 10 a.m.

mass, and uh a lot of what they talked about on the retreat was how to face your mortality, but to look at eternity and to be able to live like that because real men do not avoid death.

The subject of death, they prepare for it.

They prepare prepare for it also knowing that like what is to come is greater than anything experienced here.

And I think that's the part of why people don't want to think about death is because they don't have the full story.

Right.

You know, like they don't have the full story that this life isn't it, that there's more to come, and what's awaiting us in eternity is all things are fulfilled and revealed.

And exactly right.

And I I you know, I was trying to tell them I said, real men do not settle for comfort, they live on mission.

Be uncomfortable for Christ, be that for someone else.

And and that is it, that that's the key.

That's how how do I really truly understand my life in the faith of Jesus Christ by the way I live, the way I respond, the way I'm on mission, the way I'm I'm there for the other.

Um so I think that they had a wonderful retreat, and I I was very happy to see how um they were using all these tools from I think they did the second week of the spiritual exercises, um, but it was is that reality of of keeping eternity in your framework or in your eyesight to so that everything else um is based on that, the way you act, the way you respond, the way you behave is based on that reality.

Yeah, that that's the direction that's what we're driven by.

And that would solve probably like 70% of our issues.

It's usually, you know, even like you know, if you fight with your spouse or like you know, the something's broken at home, like things that distract us away are so small compared to if we have that eternal perspective, being able to really align ourselves to know that um what we do here matters, who we become matters, and what awaits us is um what we're preparing for.

Yeah, and I wanted to say to them is that or in the homily, I was stay awake, pay attention, are you listening?

There's more.

And the church is revealing to you the more and um you know, remind us that the measure of our life is not its length, but how we loved.

Yeah.

That question of how are we loving is a good, I think, question to think about.

And are we becoming who God's created us to be?

Are we preparing for eternity?

And even something you mentioned in your homily, like what are you living for?

You know, are we living for God first, for eternity first?

Um, or lesser things.

And the lesser things are gonna get boring, they're gonna get old, and you know, it's not the way to live.

And so to reorient ourselves as we celebrate all souls.

Amen.

Death is not the end of the story, the joy of the resurrection is.

Amen.

Thanks for sharing, Michelle.

That's uh you did a beautiful job there today.

Thanks.

A joy to always share about our kids, and um, you know, they're awaiting us, and life is such a gift.

Amen.

Thank you for that.

I hope to see you guys next week.

Thank you for following us on this podcast.

Do a like on YouTube or on Spotify Apple Podcasts, and I hope that we can grow this channel.

We want to reach more hearts.

So thank you for joining us on this amazing ride, and I hope to see you next week with Michelle.

Thank you so much.

Have a good week.

God bless.