Where Do We Go When We Die?

Wes McAdams: After a sermon is over, have you ever wanted to make a comment, ask a question, or listen to the preacher say more about a particular idea? If so, this podcast is for you. My name is Wes McAdams, and I'll be sitting down with one of my fellow McDermott Road ministers to discuss comments, questions, and thoughts that have come up after the sermon is over. Welcome to P.S., the Post-Sermon Podcast. Thanks so much for listening to P.S., the Post Sermon Podcast. To find out more about this podcast or about the Church of Christ on McDermott Road, you can visit our website at ccmcdermott.org slash P.S. If this has been an encouragement to you, we also hope you will rate and review the show wherever you're listening, as well as share it with a friend. Because we believe sermons are not just for Sunday, but for our whole week and our whole life.

Barrett: Hey, welcome and or welcome back to the post sermon podcast. My name is Barrett and we're glad that you're listening or watching. I'm joined as always by Wes McAdams. Thanks for joining us, Wes and making it happen. How are you today?

Wes McAdams: I'm doing great. How are you, Barrett?

Barrett: doing really well and excited to talk and discuss one of your ⁓ great sermons, another installation, another installment of our April series, Life After Death, Where We'll Go and Why We're Not Afraid. So backing up to last week before the sermon, how was the prep? How much time went into the sermon? I know you had a great graphic.

Wes McAdams: Yeah, I'm sure we'll talk more about the graphic. I spent way too much time. I'll just admit that upfront. spent way too much time on the graphic. I had AI make the first iteration of the graphic and it was like, it's... But I bet I could do better. then so like I had AI make all of the little pieces of it. I had Google Jim and I create all of these little pieces and then I plugged them all in and I spent way too much time building the graphic. But I'm a visual guy and like sometimes it really helps me to see sort of laid out in a graphic what I'm talking about. And so I hope that was helpful to people. But whether it was or not, I had a great time doing it. But yeah, it was one of those sermons where I did that. But I also... you know, talking about the prep of this lesson in particular, we're talking about the, where we go immediately after we die, that intermediate period between life that we know now and the resurrection, the life to come, the age to come, the new heavens and new earth. What is going to happen to us in between this disembodied period of time? And so we talked about St. Corinthians four and St. Corinthians five. And it's very important to me that in this series, we don't just grab a bunch of verses all over the Bible and just jam them together because I hear way too much of that. And so I wanted to stay in one text and kind of walk through that and talk about it in context to try to answer this question. But it's very difficult because it would be easier to just grab a lot of verses from a lot of different contexts. But I think that's an unhelpful approach that most people probably go about doing it that way. And I was tempted to do it that way myself and it's fine. but I think there's something valuable to saying, okay, here's what Paul is talking about and why that's relevant, even if it's not explicitly addressing our question, it's still relevant to address our question.

Barrett: That was great. Thank you for going back and getting some recap and hitting our key passages for sure. What feedback did you get yesterday? ⁓ tricky teaching, a tough teaching, but again, a great sermon. thought it was, and I loved the graphic for the record, but we'll talk more about it in a second. But what feedback did you get yesterday?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, lots of great conversations that this generated. know, lot of conversations about hell, a lot of conversations about the afterlife. One particular phone call that I got last night, somebody was going to send an email into the podcast, but decided, I'm just going to give Wes a call. And I was glad he did. We had a great conversation about the rich man in Lazarus. I said at the beginning of the sermon that that's the text that a lot of times we go to to say, well, here's obviously what happens when we die. Here's what the Bible says. what Jesus says and we're actually probably pulling from a parable. I said there was a parable, some people don't believe that it's a parable and that's fine, but I think it fits with a parable. The only thing different between that story and most of Jesus's parables is that he uses a name, Lazarus, and I think for a particular reason, but... Jesus is using an existing story and an existing framework and existing set of idioms and figures of speech. We talked in particular about the idea of going to Abraham's bosom, of being cared for by Abraham or being at the banquet table with Abraham. And that was just a more poetic way of saying gathered to their fathers, that when we die, we'll be gathered to our ancestors or we'll be gathered to our fathers, which is a way that the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament talked about it. But Jesus is using those figures of speech and those idioms and metaphors and stories in order to make the point, don't be greedy, share with the people around you. He's not answering the question, where do we go when we die? He's using their own stories sort of against them. to say if you need a scary ghost story in order to convince you to do what Moses and the prophets have already told you to do, your heart is far too hard. And if even if somebody came back from the dead, sort of foreshadowing his own resurrection, if somebody came back from the dead, he still wouldn't convince you because you are hard hearted. That's the point of the rich man and Lazarus story, I believe, not in order to give us a picture of what to expect when we die.

Barrett: Yeah, well, and that is our first question I want to get to. Like you pointed out, the Bible doesn't directly answer, you know, where do we go when we die, at least not in the way that maybe most of us want it to, right, or might expect. And so how should that, just the idea of it not really addressing a lot of the details, how should that reshape the way we approach, you know, Scripture? Do you think that we are asking the wrong question or do we have the wrong answer? that we're digging for, what do think?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, it's very important for us to recognize that Paul and Jesus, the apostles were not Platonists. They didn't follow the teachings of Plato who believed that the material world was bad and that we needed to escape from the material world. Unfortunately, there's a lot of Christians and have been for a long time that have been wrapped up in that Greek philosophy in thinking that the Bible is an escapist. that it's a book about escaping from this earthly life and going to the afterlife. And it should be a wake-up call to us to say, then if that's what the Bible is about, it certainly doesn't spend a lot of time talking about that. It spends a lot of time talking about the land of Israel. It talks about the earth. It talks about plants and trees and animals. It is deeply rooted in the here and now. It is deeply rooted in this life. Does it have a lot to say about death? and about how God is going to conquer and undo death, absolutely it does. But it is very rooted in the here and now to say, how are you living your life now? And for whom are you living your life? Are you living your life for the Lord? And yes, there is a lot about life after death, but that's sort of incidental to the primary question of for whom are you living right now? Who are you living for right now? How are you living your life right now? And really I think that it ought to be something we think very deeply about to say, I living my life in the right way? Not just where am going to go when I die, as if that's what the Bible exists to answer.

Barrett: great and I wanted to skip down to 2nd Corinthians 4-7 where Paul you know is really embracing ⁓ weakness as part of his calling and you you gave us some kind of context for that of like he's kind of playing into their hands of like yeah you're right I am I'm not much of a guy you know there's not a whole lot that's special about me but you know and that should be an encouragement to us and it's you know that it's not about us how does viewing ourselves as these jars of clay challenge the way we think about you know influence our impact our leadership or even effectiveness, where do you see people pushing back on that idea and what does it look like to really lean into that?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, yeah, there's so much that we could learn from Paul's attitude because again, like you said, he has so many opponents and adversaries that are attacking him. And really this whole letter of 2 Corinthians is about addressing and defending his apostleship. And how can you go about defending your apostleship, defending your right to tell people This is the official version of what it means and looks like to follow Jesus the Messiah the king This is really what it means to follow him Don't listen to these other people who are telling you it means this or it means that listen to me because i'm speaking the truth Jesus has appointed me to be one of his official delegates his official ambassadors to proclaim the message of what it looks like and what it means to follow Jesus as the king How do you do that without making it all about? yourself. Like how do you do that in such a way that you don't say, listen to me, I'm better than these other guys. And so he really turns the table on them and really approaches it in what I would say is a cruciform way to say, you're right, I am a loser. Like I'm not a great speaker. I'm not brilliant. It isn't about me. It's about the message that I'm bringing to you. It's about the message of Jesus. And it is one that subverts the expectations because it's not about self and it's not about the ego. and it's not about the spotlight, it's about humility, it's about self-giving love, it's about sacrifice. That's what the message of Jesus is all about. So Paul would be going against that if he made it about himself and put the spotlight on himself. Instead, he puts the spotlight on Jesus and he says, if it's about me, if I'm gonna do any boasting, I'm gonna boast in my weakness. I'm gonna boast in my frailty. I'm gonna boast in the persecution that I have experienced. Who does that? Nobody does that, not in the ancient world for sure. And even in our world that is obsessed with being celebrities, dare I say podcasts and YouTube and all of these things, it's so easy to want to make it about ourselves to say, hey, look at me. I'm so smart. I'm so talented. I'm such a great speaker. I have all of these great skills when there's so much for us to learn and recognize. And there's a freedom in saying, no, I... Whatever the other people say about me, they haven't even scratched the surface. I'm worse than that. Like I am just a jar of clay. I am weak. I am fragile. I am frail. But I'm longing for the day when Jesus makes me more, when Jesus makes me everything that he is. That's where my hope lies. Not in, hope you like me. I hope that you think I'm awesome. That's not where Paul's hope lied. His hope was lying in Jesus. His hope was in Christ making him ⁓ everything that Jesus already is.

Barrett: I hope the church really stops elevating people that aren't tracking and aren't on the same page with that teaching. I hope that we make a big shift as a church family and be more like Paul like that for sure. Paul says we're afflicted but not crushed. know, echoing Jesus' promise of both, there's gonna be peace and there's also great tribulation to come. And I think we get it twisted. I'm very guilty of this where I'm shocked when bad things happen and I get really down when tough times come. And it's like, man, we should be expecting this. This is part of it, right? But what does it look like to experience the suffering and peace, you know, at the same time? Like, I think this is our calling. This is the, this moment that are in, this life that we are living, is this, you know, peace and tribulation at the same time. So how have you seen that kind of lived out doing both of those at the same time well?

Wes McAdams: ⁓ Yeah, you can see it lived out so well with Paul here. I don't feel like I live it out well at all. I'm the same way like you just described that when bad things happen, I want to throw up my hands and say, God, why are you doing this to me? And why is this happening? And I thought it was supposed to be better than this. And I thought I was doing the right thing. Why am I being punished? This is what so much of the New Testament is written to address, that to follow Jesus is to pick up our cross and follow him. It is to suffer with him, suffer for him. And a lot of the suffering that we face and endure, we're not, it's not. really persecution, we're not being afflicted the way Paul was being afflicted. But there's a lot of things that we we deal with in this life simply because we are living in this broken, wicked age. And this world is out to get us. It absolutely is out to get us. But there is a peace that comes from knowing not just what will be, but what is in Christ. The Spirit of God lives in us already, that we already have eternal life, that we've already in a sense stepped into that eternal life right now in the present, that there's this already and not yet to the kingdom of God. And there is a beautiful peace that comes from the hope, the confident assurance that coming and He will raise us from the dead. And we will live in the New Jerusalem. And we will inherit the new heavens and new earth. And all of these promises are ours in Christ Jesus. But that there's a sense in which they're already true. Jesus has already been raised. We'll talk more about this next week, but he's the first fruits of the resurrection. He's the first fruits of the age to come. So the harvest has already begun. It's begun. It began 2000 years ago and here we are 2000 years later. We are still in the midst of the the harvest of the age to come. But we live in this overlap between the broken world and the new world, the age to come. And we are living in that overlap. And so, yes, we still deal with the turmoil, the tribulation, the persecution, the affliction of living in this present world, but on the inside, internally, we're being renewed every day. And if we can remember that, it changes how we approach every situation so that when we are afflicted, we can face that with love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness. That's the fruit that the spirit is producing in us if we will lean into the spirit and walk by the spirit and not by the flesh.

Barrett: Well, I liked what you said that the Holy Spirit is this down payment and an installation payment, right, of the good things to come and that it's worth it now. And the Holy Spirit, like the sun rising, casting the light on the darkness already, ⁓ I thought of an analogy and I'm going to share it because, you know, some filler from my end. ⁓ But I thought of the football player. That's up 100 to three in the final seconds of the Super Bowl and he gets injured. You know, it's three seconds left and he blows out a knee. It's like, ⁓ that feels so useless. Like why was he even playing in the fourth quarter? Like, why did he have to go through that? But it's like, he's still a champion. He's still one. And every analogy falls apart at some point, but like still a champion, still one, still winning, but still had to go through the game, right? Still had to go through the difficulties, still had the injury and it will. be healed eventually. So I loved that discussion around that. And then in 2nd Corinthians 4, 17, and 18, Paul says, our light momentary affliction. And I think until yesterday, I had always read this as, you he's talking about when we come into hard times. But then yesterday, it kind of dawned on me. And again, I'm not sure if this is like wholesale true here, but like he's talking about life, I think, period, that the whole life, not just our difficult time, but in this light momentary affliction, our consciousness, our life itself, is just a speck in light of eternity, right? And I think about the Francis Chan illustration where he gets the rope and he says, pretend this rope goes on forever and he colors a little bit red. And he says, this is all of human history and your life is just one of these tiny threads of this rope. That's the mentality, that's the perspective that we're supposed to have. And I thought that was a good combination. of thoughts that you put together yesterday. So we've hinted at talking about the slide and the illustration some more. So I gotta ask, you got a great laugh in first service when you said Holly didn't care for your graphic that you made. So you never know what's going on in people's houses, but do you just bring up your sermon slides at dinner or how does this work? You bring the boys in, say let's do a dry run on Saturday.

Wes McAdams: Well, any time I use graphics and I've said this on the podcast before that they are not my whole family is not a fan of the AI generated graphics. They don't care for it. And so I thought, well, maybe this one is so intricate. There's so many pieces to this graphic. And you could you could. see the servant if you go online, you can see the graphic I'm talking about. there's so many pieces to it. I thought, well, I should probably run it by her. I need more eyes on it than just mine. And so one evening, we were probably at a baseball game or something. And I handed her my phone. I was like, does this look OK? And she's like, yeah, but I don't care for this. Like, what is this intermediate state? And what is this like spirit thing? And I was like. Yeah, well, there's really no way to depict the, you know, the spirit of a person. Like, it doesn't look like anything. It's invisible. That's the whole point. But like, is that okay? And she's like, I don't know. I just don't like it. She's like, I'll think about it some more. That was the last I heard of it. So I texted her later the week I was like, well, sorry, I'm gonna go with it. I know you didn't care for it. So I made a whole joke out about how Holly doesn't like it. And you know, we're kidding about this, but in all reality, sometimes I'll do that. Like if I have something like that or like a story or an illustration and I have somebody, especially my wife who doesn't like it, I think it's disarming. And I think it's helpful if somebody thinks, well, I also didn't like that. I guess I'm in the same boat as Holly is, know, as opposed to like, if you don't like this, then you're dumb. Like if you don't like this, then you just don't get it. I never want to come across like that because I've gone from, you know, presenting on the slides the text of the scripture. Like if you don't like that, sorry, take it up with the Lord. But then I've jumped and I need to acknowledge that I've jumped to something I came up with. This is me. This is something Wes came up with. This is no longer the text of the scriptures. This is just Wes's idea. This is helpful to me. If it's helpful to you, great. But I need to be really humble about it. And so I could say, some people don't like this, including some people in my house don't like this and make a joke about it so that people know that if you don't like it, cool. You're not arguing with God if you don't like Wes's graphic. But then when we go back to the scripture, then we're talking about something. Well, there's really no wiggle room there. But when it comes to my opinion, Whether it's ⁓ something I wrote or something I drew or something, whatever. Like that, that is not the Word of God. And you can argue with that all day long. You could say, I don't like that. Great. You're in good company. And so I think it's really important for preachers for us to acknowledge what is from the Lord and then what is from me and sometimes we're not really clear about that and we act like they're the same we equate those things and that's where I think we really get into trouble and so anytime that something is my story my illustration my words I want to be really humble about presenting that and not try to equate that with the scriptures themselves.

Barrett: We had a similar conversation this morning that I appreciate when people on podcasts led people off the hook of like, Hey, this is my speculation. This is my thoughts on this. And similarly, when you got to second Corinthians five, six through eight, where we're talking about. Paul is talking about, you know, when we're at home in the body, we're away from the Lord and we long to be with him, even though that's not the end goal and that's not the last stage of all this. And you said, this is hard for it. You said specifically, this is hard for me to understand me, Wes, to understand. And I said, thank you, Wes, and my notes because it was like, yeah, it's really difficult for me to wrap my mind around. And I did like that teaching paired with the illustration. was very helpful for me, Holly. No, it was really good. ⁓ But thanks for letting us off the hook and differentiating, I think, between, here's what it says in Scripture, here's what this could look like in this illustration. And also, it's still difficult to wrap my mind around, and it's a difficult teaching. And we got an email from a listener, and she said, recently had a Bible study with someone that's not in our church family, and it ended up going in the direction regarding the new heaven and new earth with Jesus reigning on the earth. upon his return. Yet there is also scripture in the New Testament of meeting him in the sky. Is it both? Can you explain?" Which is a great question and referencing rapture and that sort of thing. So I know we're gonna build to some of that next week, I think, but what do you think about that, Wes?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, we will. We'll cover some of that next week. But this is a reference to 1 Thessalonians 4 verse 17. Great question about this idea of being caught up together. And the Latin translation of the New Testament is actually where we get the English word rapture there when it says caught up together. I don't believe in a rapture like a secret rapture that God's people will secretly be snatched up and then there'll be tribulation or there'll be a thousand year reign. I don't believe in any of that. I think that that sort of dispensational premillennialism, I think that that is probably a misreading of revelation and it's tied together with this passage of being caught up together with the Lord in the air. I think what Paul is saying here in 1 Thessalonians 4 is really helpful to understand the word that we translate meat. So Paul says, then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them, that is, the spirits of those who have died before us are going to be raised from the dead. In fact, let me go back and just read the passage in context a little bit. He says, for since we believe, this is verse 14, since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. So the spirits of those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep, those who have died. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. So there'll be a resurrection of their bodies and their spirits will come with the Lord and there'll be a- Reunification, apparently, a reunification of the body that's been raised from the tomb, from the grave, and their spirits that the Lord brings with him, and they will be resurrected. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Now, one thing to notice here is that Paul doesn't say, where will we always be with the Lord? He says, we'll meet in the clouds, in the air, and then we will always be with the Lord. He doesn't say we'll go off to heaven. He also doesn't say we'll come back to the earth. He doesn't say either that we'll spend that whole time forever in the clouds. I hope nobody thinks that we will literally live forever in the clouds. Like that's not what Paul teaches, but he just says that there will be a meeting in the clouds. There'll be a meeting in the air that when the Lord comes from heaven, and we are caught up together that there will be this meeting. What's helpful to understand that the word meet is from a Greek word that really references the idea of going out to meet a dignitary who is coming to town. The same way that the triumphal entry happened when Jesus was coming into Jerusalem and the people of Jerusalem recognized him as the approaching King, they went out and they laid palm branches on the road and they said, Hosanna in the highest. They praised him as the approaching conquering king who was coming into Jerusalem. They recognized him as the Messiah, as the son of David. And so that's what you did when a dignitary came to town. It would be incredibly rude for the people of a town to allow a king to enter without going out to meet him. Now, of course, the implication there is always that when you go out to meet the king who is approaching, you're not going out to meet him. and then turning around and going back with him wherever he came from, you're actually escorting him into the town. And so the picture I believe that Paul is painting here is that humans will all be caught up together. The followers of Jesus will be caught up into the air to welcome Jesus back to the earth, the new earth, the redeemed earth, the rescued earth, the earth that has been transformed. to no longer be in a state of decay. And so it'll be a new heavens and a new earth, but we are meeting him as in welcoming him. And so this idea of meeting Jesus is not so that we can live forever in the clouds, it's so that we can welcome the King to come and reign. And as John says in Revelation, we will reign with him. That's the picture, the idea that we get throughout the scriptures is that we are welcoming him so that we can reign with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:17

Barrett: hesitate to say this, but you know, I didn't think we were going to go that in depth with that and that was awesome. That was great, man. Thanks. And what a great answer to that question. You emphasized, you know, Paul's ultimate hope is not being with the Lord after death. And so we've already foreshadowed kind of where we're landing the plane here today quite a bit. But and you close with we want to be like Jesus so we can be with Jesus. The ultimate goal is the resurrection. It's the new creation. It is the new bodies. It is the new heaven and earth. And so how does that shift from going to heaven, shifting to the resurrection and new bodies? How does that change the way we think about ⁓ two parts here, like eternity, period, and then also, or question mark, and then also, you know, our purpose now and what life looks like today.

Wes McAdams: Yeah, well again, the biblical storyline is deeply rooted in the physical. It's deeply rooted in the material. It is a mistake to treat the material and physical as if it's bad. That comes from Plato, not from the Bible. That comes from Gnosticism, not from Christianity. And so that idea of the Gnostic heresy was something that the early church condemned because it was wrong. We are not people who believe that everything in world, on the planet is bad and we just want to escape from here. But we also need to recognize that there is an already and a not yet to what we believe. Like we are already a part of the kingdom. We are already living that out and that changes, like you said, not just what we think about the future, but what we think about the present. That I am already a citizen of the New Jerusalem. I am already in a sense seated with Jesus at the banquet table. I am already in a sense reigning with Him. Even right now I'm reigning with the Lord. there's a sense in which that's already true. And so I'm working and doing good works, believing that the kingdom of God has already arrived and believing that I am a representative of the future world even right now in the present. But there's a tension there. There's a not yet as well. And we need to recognize that no matter how much good we do, no matter how much, ⁓ you know, love and benevolence we spread. the world is still broken and the world is still unredeemed and we are still living in the midst of a wicked age and a wicked generation and we are not going to create utopia on our own. It is not until Jesus comes and evil is destroyed forever and the world is truly redeemed. That's when all of our good works will come to fruition. And so it can be frustrating right now if we think that while Jesus has already come, Jesus is already reigning, so I ought to be able to build something good that lasts forever. Well, there's still a lot of what Solomon or the writer of Ecclesiastes has to say that applies to us, that it's all just smoke and mirrors and you're building sandcastles and all of this is is hevel, it's all going to to fade away. But there's also a sense in which I am living in the kingdom of God and what I'm building and what I'm doing actually does matter. So we have to keep both sides of that in view in balance and it does. It changes how we live, what we do and why what we're doing right now really matters and what we're hoping for in the future, that it's only when Jesus comes that these bodies of ours will be transformed so that they're immortal and imperishable and undefiled and the work that we do will last forever because we'll be part of a kingdom that lasts forever.

Barrett: Yeah, I think it's super exciting that. the hope for is not clouds and harps and hymns. You know, it should be something exciting to look forward to of like its work, its exploration. is, you know, New Jerusalem. is city. It is also a new earth, meaning there is land to be settled and to be worked. And I think that's an exciting thing. And ⁓ I think that changes our hope and our excitement about the afterlife. It should, I think then like, ⁓ I'm just going to be a worship robot in my mind. Like that sounds not as fun as working with Jesus in, you know, in the new creation. But, and I think it should change how we convince people, how we talk to people of, hey, you might've heard it said, you know, you've maybe misconstrued like the ultimate goal, the end goal here. I think if we have a better understanding and articulation of our ultimate goal and where we're headed and what that looks like, it should change how we evangelize and should be. really exciting things. So ⁓ thanks for answering all of those, West, and for getting into it. Where are we going next week in next week's sermon?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, yeah, we're going to talk more about this idea of resurrection because that's the ultimate hope. Inti Wright, who's a New Testament scholar, he likes to say that the New Testament emphasis is not about life after death, it's about life after life after death. And so this week we talked about that disembodied state and Paul calls it being naked or being unclothed and there is a sense in which there are countless people right now, even God's people who are disembodied, their spirit has been separated from their body. But, and even though that state is better than living in the brokenness of this age, there is a sense in which being with the Lord, even in a disembodied state is better than the state we're in now. But it's not the ultimate hope, it's not the ultimate good. The ultimate good is to have a body that can eat from the tree of life and will live forever, to be transformed, to be immortal, and to live in the Eden that we were always created to live in, the New Jerusalem where God Himself dwells. And that's our ultimate hope and that's what we'll talk about next week.

Barrett: I think if your ⁓ first initials are NT, you've narrowed down what you actually study in the Bible. You might have to be a New Testament scholar. We're big fans. Man, super excited about that. I love talking about this stuff. So thank you, Wes. And thank you all for listening and for watching and for participating. You can always send us your comments and questions. There's lots of links below and that sort of thing so you can contact us. And I do want to give a shout out to Cameron. Cameron said he's been watching and listening.

Wes McAdams: You're... Yeah, yeah. Right?

Barrett: him and all of you. Tune in next week for the Post Sermon Podcast. Thanks again.