Is Forgiving Yourself Biblical?

Wes McAdams: After a sermon is over, have you ever wanted to make a comment, ask a question, or listen to the preacher say more about a particular idea? If so, this podcast is for you. My name is Wes McAdams, and I'll be sitting down with one of my fellow McDermott Road ministers to discuss comments, questions, and thoughts that have come up after the sermon is over. Welcome to P.S., the Post-Sermon Podcast.

Barrett: Welcome back to the PS podcast. In case you forgot, between the bumper video and right now, that's what you're listening to or watching. My name's Barrett. I'm one of the ministers at the McDermott Road Church of Christ. Joined as always by Wes McAdams, our preaching minister. Happy Father's Day, Wes. How are you today?

Wes McAdams: Thanks so much for listening to P.S., the Post Sermon Podcast. To find out more about this podcast or about the Church of Christ on McDermott Road, you can visit our website at ccmcdermott.org slash P.S. If this has been an encouragement to you, we also hope you will rate and review the show wherever you're listening, as well as share it with a friend. Because we believe sermons are not just for Sunday, but for our whole week and our whole life. Happy Father's Day to you as well, I'm doing great.

Barrett: Great, good to hear. Did you do anything fun? Did you get a cool new necktie or anything for probably

Wes McAdams: No necktie. We we had a nice lunch. My boys are actually in South Texas on a mission trip right now. They're with the high school group, and we've got 102 people down there in South Texas doing a mission trip. And that's where my my sons are. So it was just me and my wife, and we had a nice relaxing afternoon. And that is a great Father's Day gift.

Barrett: Yeah, you didn't have to wait up for them to get home late or anything like that. That's great. Good. ⁓ yeah, it's very similarly. ⁓ we just took the afternoon to kinda hang out. So ⁓ did you at least get a ⁓ Happy Father's Day text from one of your boys?

Wes McAdams: Right. I I'm assuming that both of them had their phones confiscated on the youth trip, so I'm I'm I'm sure they would have done they would have texted me otherwise. I did get a card. I'm sure my wife picked out the card and they both wrote their names in it. Someone wrote love and then s Malachi wrote his name and then and Noah. So that was the extent of the heartwarming message that I received from my sons on Father's Day was

Barrett: Yeah.

Wes McAdams: love Malachi and Noah. So I appreciate it.

Barrett: Sure. They're really phoning it in in their old age. so this was ⁓ yesterday, ⁓ our sermon yesterday was kind of the last week in our Don't Freak Out series, ⁓ which has I think been a a great one. ⁓ how'd you feel like it went and can you give us a little ⁓ recap?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, so I'm I'm always glad when a series starts and I'm also glad when a series ends, I'm ready to be done. Especially the the family series that we do between Mother's Day and Father's Day. It tends to drag on in my in my mind. I hope it doesn't to everybody else, but I'm always ready to move on to to other things. So I was kinda glad to be wrapping that this series up. But yeah, we talked about the idea of what do we do when we mess up and we all do. Fathers, mothers, husbands, wives, we mess up, not just in our families, but we mess up in life and we've sinned. We've fallen short of God's glory, of everything that He wanted us to be. And we know that. I think most of us know. Maybe we don't always admit it, but we know that we've messed up. And so how do we navigate that? And we talked about how we tend to go to these two extremes. On the one hand, is this overly self-critical extreme, and we are self-loathing and we hate ourselves and we kind of have a pity party for ourselves. I've messed up so bad. And that affects our family relationships. If if we do that in marriage, it affects our marriage. It affects our relationship with our kids or our relationship with our parents or our siblings or or any relationship that we're in when we have this overly self-critical view of ourself. But on on the other extreme, and I think this is also a form of a freak out Is that we are overly self-confident. And I think we do that in order to protect our own ego. And we deny that we've even messed up or that we've even sinned. And we blame other people and we push it off on someone else. And we say, it's not my fault, or it's not a big deal. And so we kind of talked about both of those extremes and how the cross addresses both of those and how Jesus equips us to deal with our sin without denial. or despair, that we don't have to go into a a ⁓ fit of despair and say, ⁓ I'm so horrible, woe is me, but we also don't have to deny that we have sinned. We can admit, we can confess that we've sinned and know that we are also forgiven.

Barrett: Yeah, thank you for going back and and hitting some of the highlights. We're gonna get into several of those. And you started the sermon by kind of jokingly apologizing on behalf of all preachers because Father's Day, you know, can come across sometimes as more of a beating than a a blessing compared to Mother's Day in particular. And ⁓ you noted that I I thought this was good that, you know, preachers are often fathers and maybe we're projecting as preachers, you know, our own mistakes onto the congregation. And that sort of thing. So when you look at, and this is loosely attached to the sermon, I think you did a great job of of tying this in. My question is loosely based on the sermon, but when you look at modern parenting, why do you think Christian dads and moms but you know are experiencing guilt? And how can we as a church you know, move away from that that beatdown and the and the guilt that we sometimes get from a sermon or get from coming to church and and comparing ourselves to other Christian parents. How do we move away from that while still having this high standard of parenting as Christians?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, ⁓ that's such a good question. There's so much there. That I think that on the one hand, we can we get tired of church being merely theological and theoretical, and we like for church to be very practical and like tell me what to do, but that can also leave us with this overwhelming sense of guilt because we haven't done all of those things. And so when church just becomes practical, like here's how to be a better parent, here's how to be a better spouse, here's how to be a better human. Then we we get overwhelmed with the fact that I haven't done those things, I haven't lived up to those standards, I have made so many mistakes, and then we every week we sort of pile on all of the good stuff that we're supposed to do and all the bad stuff that we're supposed to stop doing. And and sometimes we can just give up and say, Well, if if I have to be all of this, I'm just gonna stop trying. And so We we need we need that theology. We need the we need the truth of the gospel to help us to understand that we have fallen short. But on the other hand, that shouldn't make us move entirely away from the practical. There are things that we need to be doing and certain ways that we should be living. So we have to hold, I think, both of those things intention. We have to hold both of those things at the same time where we are appreciating who we are and what we have in Christ and through the Holy Spirit. And then also talking about, okay, now what does that mean? And what does that look like to walk in the light as he is in the light? What does that look like to live this Christian life? And how does that work itself out in my marriage? But then also at the same time, again, coming behind that to say, okay, but then when we mess up, when we when we don't live up to that standard week after week, day after day, then what are we going to do? Are we going to go back into a fit of of of despair or are we going to deny that we've even messed up? Or are we gonna admit it, okay, yep, I tried, I worked really hard, I I tried to be the person I was called to be, and I messed up and I fell short and he forgived he he forgave me again and I'm going to move on and I'm gonna try better this try harder this week ⁓ through the through the power of the Holy Spirit. So I think it's both of those things at the same time. It's the practical and knowing Here are the things that we should be doing and the things we should stop doing, but at the same time the the not theoretical but theological truth of the gospel and how that changes our our perspective on everything.

Barrett: That's great. Yeah. I tend to be a real like, well, what can we take away? What's the practical piece of this? Because I don't want it to just be a knowledge thing. I do want it to be an action thing. And that is often where my shortcomings are highlighted the most. And like, well yeah, I know what I should be doing. And there's plenty on that list of I should be reading more w scripture with my kids. I should be praying with them more often. And those are the things that I neglect the most and highlight my failures as a parent. But ⁓ I think you're absolutely right. It's the you know, okay, what can we you know, is it one more time a week that we are circling up around even the the kids storybook Bible, you know, it's like we don't have to get out my Bible and break it down and have this, you know, huge Bible study. ⁓ but is there something small? ⁓ so I think that's a great one. You you gave some great context about kind of the first century false teaching that John was, you know, writing against, fighting against, a and this idea that God, you know, only cares about the heart and the mind and so the the physical action doesn't really matter. And you tied that directly to the the phrase that we hear a lot today, like God knows my heart and ⁓ you know, he knows who I really am and he listens to my heart is a song that we sing and I think is a beautiful one. ⁓ But when people say God knows my heart today and kind of minimizing mistakes or shortcomings, you know, what do we misunderstand about biblical grace when we're when we're doing that? And ⁓ what are your thoughts on some of those things?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, such a great question. And and really it it really struck me this week as I was thinking about maybe what we might call like this early Gnosticism that John is writing against, like you said, and how these these false teachers were really focused on what we know, what we believe, what's inside of us, the the invisible part of us, and that God doesn't really care about the physical, tangible part of us, what we do, how we live. And how similar that is to the way we sort of excuse our own behavior. And really, the the phrase God knows my heart, that really shouldn't let us off the hook. In fact, if anything, that should help us to recognize the gravity of our sin. It's like when I say God knows my heart, that's just like a scary phrase to me. That doesn't justify my behavior. It's interesting the way that we we say, well, you know. This, I know I probably shouldn't have done this thing, but God knows my heart. That I and what we mean is, God knows that I'm really a genuine person that has the best of motives and the best intentions. And I'm like, well, your heart must be different than mine because my heart is not that sometimes. I mean, my heart is is broken and my intentions and motives are skewed sometimes and they're twisted sometimes. And so the fact that God knows my heart means that God knows the thing about me that I'm hiding from everybody else. I'm doing a good job of hiding some of the darker thoughts that I have in my heart. And God knows all of that. And all of that is laid bare in front of the Lord. And so, yes, you're right. God knows your heart. He also knows your actions. And He knows, He knows how broken our heart is, how twisted our heart can be. And He is He's loving us anyway. He is forgiving us anyway, in spite of our heart. And so the fact that God knows our heart isn't justification for our behavior. It is to say that God knows our heart and he loves us anyway. And he's forgiving us anyway. And he's transforming us anyway based on faith, not Perfection, but based on our trust in and allegiance to and loyalty to King Jesus, that if we commit ourselves to following Jesus, however imperfectly, if we follow Jesus faithfully, not flawlessly, but faithfully, then God, in spite of the fact that He knows our behavior and our mind and our heart and our thoughts, He forgives us and He cleanses us and He washes us. When we minimize sin. We also minimize grace. If we want to fully appreciate grace, if we want to fully appreciate how wonderful and how big of a deal the blood of Jesus is, then we also have to recognize how big of a deal our sin is. In fact, that might have been one of the things that I said a little bit differently in second service than first service. I said something along the lines of that that we we sometimes act like our sin is not a big deal. But it isn't that our sin isn't a big deal, it's that the blood of Jesus is an even bigger deal. But when we minimize our sin and say, well, it's not really that big of a deal, well, then the forgiveness is not really that big of a deal. If we want to fully maximize and appreciate the grace of God, the forgiveness of God, the mercy of God, that we have to recognize that every one of our sins, even the ones that we tend to be dismissive of, or the ones that everybody does, or the ones that, you know, are very common, they're a big deal. But yet we're forgiven. We're forgiven not because of how little they are, but because of how good God is.

Barrett: That's fantastic. I love the minimizing sin is minimizing grace. And ⁓ one thing you said, ⁓ I think it was in first where I was, but you know, Jesus can't cleanse you from what you deny even exists. huge, you know, almost mic drop moment there. and that segues nicely into this big idea that, you know, you laid out the two extremes that we fall into when we mess up, like overly self-critical, you know, throwing the pity party, self-loathing, ⁓ or just overly self-critical. Self confident, maybe too confident in like well we're just plow past that and move on this denial or maybe ⁓ you know shifting the blame to well that's the culture we live in now ⁓ you know and the idea of minimizing right so in your experience ⁓ you know which of these extremes do you see people struggle with the most and you know what are the unique kind of dangers to each of them and is there one that ⁓ I think you and I struggle with opposites here if I had to guess. I was gonna ask you

Wes McAdams: Hmm.

Barrett: Which one do you struggle with the most too?

Wes McAdams: Yeah, I I I find that people, including myself, I th I think that a lot of us vacillate between the two. I don't I don't think that most people are in just one category or the other. I think that people tend to vacillate between the two. And I think that the overly self-confident is often a reaction to the Overly self-critical. And when we are self-critical, again, as I said yesterday, sometimes the only way we know how to deal with our sin is through denial, is to say, well, it's not really my fault. It's not really that big of a deal. Because we don't know what to do with it. We if it would crush us. We would, we would go into a ⁓ puddle of goo, into a despair to say, ⁓ no, I'm a horrible person. Nobody could possibly love me. And in order to not do that, we

Barrett: Yeah.

Wes McAdams: We go to the opposite extreme and we become overly, or we at least pretend to be overly self-confident and we dismiss our sin and say, Well, you know, I only did that because of so-and-so. I only did that because you did this thing. And I I find myself doing that in in my family. I do that a lot. I I'll I will be, you know, self-critical and ⁓ I'm I'm a horrible person. I shouldn't have done this. I can't believe I flew off the handle. I can't believe I said, you know, whatever. And then and then I'll find myself the very next moment, say, Well, but and and justify it by excusing myself and say, Well, I only did it because he did this, I only did it because they did that. And and we have to recognize those things when they're happening and say, Wow, am I doing this because I'm not really believing. That God is faithful and God is just and God is merciful and He would forgive me if I just let go of it. And I can't even admit to my family or myself, much less God, yes, I have sinned. I I've messed up and I shouldn't have done that. And I receive fully and completely the forgiveness that you are extending to me. And I think that's where it breaks down so often for so many of us. Is that we become self-critical or self-confident because we're not willing to embrace this self-forgetfulness of letting go of ourself and not defending our ego and accepting the forgiveness that God gives. In fact, I think so much of this don't freak out series has really revolved around not defending ourselves, either physically or emotionally, or whatever the case may be, against attacks that are. Legitimate and ones that are illegitimate, attacks that you know people say we did something wrong, like we talked about last week, when we didn't do something wrong, when we really were in the right, or in this case, when we've done something wrong. If we let go of that that need to defend ourselves, that fear of what if something bad happens? What if what if people see me for who I am? When we let go of that. And we're vulnerable because we trust in God, where we have not a self-confidence, but a God confidence, a confidence that He's saved us and forgiven us, then we really could love people, love our family, love our neighbors, even love our enemies, because we're not trying to protect and defend ourselves all the time.

Barrett: Man, that's great. it's a great time to remind everybody. Free podcast. All that wisdom, all that goal for free.

Wes McAdams: I l I love when you say that. That's that's very ⁓ encouraging.

Barrett: Well, you've hit me twice with ⁓ great question and I'm going, I don't know if there was a question in there but so I'll throw it right back at you. ⁓ well you mentioned ⁓ before we get to the self forgetfulness, which I thought It was a great summary of the solution that we're talking about and being God confident versus self confident. So we'll we'll get to that. But you know, talking about letting it go, you you really highlighted, you know, first John one nine, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and pointed out that we usually view, you know, justice and forgiveness as kind of opposites or like on a spectrum and and we get justice, we expect punishment, and you use merciful justice. You know, can you unpack that some more and kind of riff on that of like how does the the cross allow God's justice to actually become the guarantee of forgiveness rather than condemnation?

Wes McAdams: Yeah. ⁓ I love the way you phrased that just now. That's perfect. Yeah, we are. We're guaranteed. In Christ, we are guaranteed forgiveness because the the penalty has already been paid. The debt has already been paid. We've already been redeemed. We've been rescued. We've been set free. We've been liberated. We've been justified. Justice has already been served. And so it would be unjust for God to say, Well, I changed my mind. I'm going to punish you anyway. No, no, no. If you are faithful to King Jesus, again. Not flawless, but faithful. If you are walking with him in faith, if you're trusting in him, if you're loyal to him, if he has your allegiance, then the debt has already been paid. You've already been liberated. You've been justified. And so it would be unjust for God to say, I changed my mind, I'm gonna punish you anyway, or I'm not gonna forgive you. You're too bad, you're too wicked, you're too immoral, whatever. Like I'm going to, I'm gonna take out my wrath on you because I You know, I'm just arbitrary like that. No, it it's already been done. And when we we recognize that we we do want God to be just, we want God to keep his word. That's what we're we're not trying to convince God to go against his own will, to go against justice. We're we're saying, God, as shocking as it is, as surprising as it is, as as mind-blowing as it is, you have promised. Us, us who are followers of King Jesus, who belong to Him, that we are forgiven and will be forgiven, and that you will continue to cleanse us through His blood. You've promised us that. And so we want to take you up on your offer of salvation and forgiveness. That's a very different thing than feeling like every time I sin and I mess up and I fall short, I make a mistake, that I have to convince God all over again. God, I'm a really good guy and I'm I'm trying my best. And that's, I think, what we we think we're having to do when we pray for forgiveness, that we're having to convince God that we're worth saving. And I think a lot of people have just given up on that and say, I'm not worth saving. I'm I'm I'm worthless. And God is saying, No, number one, you're not worthless. I I think you're valuable. That's why I sent my son to die for you, to rescue you and redeem you from the pit of death and destruction that you were in. But that's already been done and and the the cost has already been paid. Trust me that I am faithful and just and I will continue to forgive you and I will continue to rescue you. Believe me when I say these things. And so we don't have to convince God over and over again that He should forgive us, or you know, God, I hope I caught you in a good mood because I messed up again. Like that's it's not about whether God is in a good mood or not. It's about the fact that God is faithful and God is just and we can count on God. Being those things and keeping his word.

Barrett: That's awesome. A and you s had this kind of ⁓ controversial ⁓ take during the sermon, you know, pointing out the Bible never actually commands us to forgive ourselves, right? That because we don't have that authority, ⁓ to e you know, extend forgiveness to ourselves. And and that idea, you know, I really liberates people from this, you know, pressure of trying to forgive ourselves and come up with like what does it look like to live a self-forgiven life? But ⁓ it can be hard to process. And so if there's somebody that's like we've already talked about and like you were just addressing that's listening to it, kind of trying to convince God, or just paralyzed in shame over their past, you know, how do we shift from trying to forgive myself to what we're talking about, this trusting God's verdict. you know, letting go of self and leaning into this God confidence.

Wes McAdams: Yeah. It really is that back to that idea of self-forgetfulness. And I think the only thing that can help help us do that, maybe not the only thing, but one of the things that helps us with that is worship. When we worship, we are taken outside of ourself and ⁓ the focus, the attention is put on God, on how good He is. And so the debate, the the question, the what we're wrestling and struggling with is no longer Am I good or am I bad? It's not about me anymore. It's about him. It's about how good he is. It's about what he's done. It's not about me. Yeah, it's so much bigger than me. Salvation is so much bigger than me. He's rescuing all of us. It's not just about me. It's about how he's rescuing all of his people. And so why would I be the exception to that? Like sometimes we we we fail to recognize just how audacious. Some of our claims about our own sin is like, do you really think that you are so sinful that you are the exception to the rule that you're gonna make God say, ⁓ well, I didn't think about that? ⁓ of course. Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess you know, I'm gonna forgive everybody else. I mean, Saul of Tarsus, who murdered Christians and threw them into prison, I'll forgive him. But you, like you, you are ⁓ I didn't even account for somebody like you. Your sin is so exceptional. Like, do we really think? That our sin is that exceptional, that our our depravity is so deep that God didn't even take that into account? Of course not. God knew what he was getting into when he got all of us. And it's a package deal. He's rescuing all of us. We have to stop making about us. And whether we are overly self-confident or overly self-critical, it's about self. And so we have to. Be taken out of self, forget about the self and focus on Jesus, on who he is. That's why I love revelation. Worthy, worthy, worthy. God is worthy. That's what we're declaring when we're worshiping. We're declaring his worth, his value, his glory. And that helps us to forget ourselves. And when we do, not when we become, you know, again, self loathing, that's not humility, that's not self forgetfulness. When we we just have all of the attention off on how good God is, well, then that helps us to love his image bearers everywhere. Our our spouse, our children, our parents, our siblings. We can love them because it's not about us. I'm very I'm very bad at loving my wife or loving my boys when my attention is on me, on what I deserve, good or bad, what I've done, good or bad. When when my attention and focus is on myself, I don't love other people well. And so when I've been worshiping God and I've just been overwhelmed with how good God is and all the great things God has done for us and how merciful He's been and how faithful He is and how just He is, well, then I can turn my attention on other people and love like Jesus loves. It's the only way that we can do it. Otherwise, we become obsessed with ourselves.

Barrett: Amen. Yeah. I I liked ⁓ you said me me me several times in the sermon. That was great because Despair, you know, the woe is me, and the denial of well I did it because of this, like both are just inherently selfish. And I love the way you put it that God couldn't have prepared for your sin. ⁓ I remember early in my twenties, still in school, wrapping up school maybe, working at a a drug and alcohol rehab facility, and there was a young man who had ended up in the hospital, and I was having to work a night in the hospital, like with him and kind of like Like more or less guard him from escaping the hospital and you know, three o'clock in the morning rolls around and he's in a really dark spot and he starts confessing some of the worst things I've ever heard, you know, and he's said to me that he's seen visions of, you know, and I'm sure drug induced visions of Satan coming to get him and has all these terrible things that I we'd have to slap a trigger warning on the podcast to talk about. I mean awful stuff. And as a twenty something year old guy like I'm scared, you know, like that's terrifying. And he says, Do you think your God could forgive me? And I go, This is truly where the you know, rubber meets the road, like am I gonna say Yes, for sure, in the confidence that I have in my own forgiveness and my own faith. Or is this one of those moments where I go, dude, don't know, that's a terrible list of things you read about. And so I got to confidently tell him, like, yeah, man, and I don't think you're the exception. Like, and I ha even in the back of my mind of like wrestling with that of like, ⁓ man, he's pretty far out there and this is a crazy story. But to tell him to his face, like, yes, like you are you have a misunderstanding of your sin. in in the whole scheme of things and like yes there is forgiveness and I wish I had a really happy ending to that story. ⁓ but maybe the happy ending is I said that, I got to have that conversation with him. What happened to him, we do not know. But that shift from me to he and that self-forgetfulness, I think, is fantastic and a great practical piece to this really theological and and really gospel centric message that you gave us. So ⁓ thanks for your time today, Wes. I know you won't be here at McDermott Road next Sunday. So where are you gonna be?

Wes McAdams: I will be at the Red River Family Encampment and that's a good opportunity to put a plug in for the encampment. If you ever have a chance to to come out at the end of June, ⁓ early late June, early July, ⁓ to the family encampment in in Red River, New Mexico, I would highly recommend it. It's a great week of worship and ⁓ just fellowship. ⁓ probably 1,500 or so ⁓ Christians gathered under a big tent and lots of preaching, lots of singing, just lots of being together with. ⁓ fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. We've got several people from McDermott Road that are going out there again this year and it's gonna be a great time. I'm I'm really, really excited, but I will miss my church family next Sunday.

Barrett: ⁓ good. Yeah, for sure. I'm excited that we get a break from you for a little bit. Just kidding. Yeah, just seeing if anybody was paying attention here in the twenty eighth going on, twenty ninth minute of our podcast here. But ⁓ Chase Turner is coming and so excited to

Wes McAdams: No doubt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chase is the the the president CEO of Herald of Truth and Chase is one of genuinely one of the most encouraging, positive, spirit filled, Christ centered people that I've ever known. He just he encourages me every time I'm around him. So I'm I'm really, really excited for ⁓ the congregation to get to hear him bring the bring the gospel and and preach Jesus. And I know that he'll do a fantastic job. I will I will miss not only being with the church family, but I'll miss getting to to hear him in person, but I'm sure I'll listen online.

Barrett: Yeah, I'm excited for Chase to be here and already excited for you to come back. I was joking earlier, but thank you all for listening, for watching. We appreciate your questions and comments each week. We hope that you'll send those in. You can comment below and let us know what you think about this episode and this sermon. And as always, thank you, Wes. Appreciate you, brother. And we will check in with you guys in a couple of weeks with our next episode of the Post Sermon Podcast.