Worship Is a Classroom

Well, good morning. It's five past the hour, so we might get underway.

I'll pray for us, and then our theme this morning is worship as a classroom.

My original draft was to call this worship is a dinner party,

but I wondered whether Americans would hear the words dinner party in the same way that I might.

I thought classroom was much less ambiguous, so we'll go with that today.

So let me pray for us.

Our gracious Lord, we thank you so much that we can be together.

We're safer when we're together than when we're apart.

So we ask you this morning to help us, to bless us individually,

that we might bless those sitting around us and those new people we'll meet.

And please give us a deep learning about how we might think of and participate in Sunday worship.

May this be for us an enormous encouragement along the way.

For we ask it in Christ's strong name. Amen.

Well, as I've done in the last few weeks, it's worth taking a few moments at the beginning of our time

to summarise or reflect on the last few weeks together.

As a teacher, I do this at the beginning of all my classes,

just to be reminded how little they learnt last time.

What have been your ongoing reflections or thoughts about these conversations on worship?

Every day, the notion is clearer and clearer.

I know that something inside me always wants to sin.

That law of sin that Paul talks about in Romans 7.

But I'm utterly, utterly, utterly dependent on His goodness and on His grace

and on the knowledge that He gives me through the Spirit and His Word that points me to Christ.

I suffer from depression, really bad depression.

And sometimes I just have to hang on and just repeat scriptures

when I'm in bed under the sheets for 17 hours or, I mean, anywhere.

I'm watching TV or I'm bored or it's just that I'm utterly dependent.

But that something inside says that there's a hope.

You're suffering, you're suffering, you're suffering, but there's a hope.

So, Royal's point is that we need to be reminded of our dependence on the Lord.

Our dependence, which I think in the...

The word faith, I think, in the end just means dependence.

And that's what we have to do.

I suppose church, coming to church, worshipping at church,

reminds us of our dependence or teaches us that dependence.

Thank you.

Can people remember what the actual metaphors, the topics were over the last two weeks?

Church is a party.

Church is a party, which was...

Worship is a party.

Worship is a party, that's right.

That was last week's topic.

Worship is a compass.

And worship is a compass was the first week, that's right.

And anything about those particular images that have resonated with you over the last few weeks?

Yes.

I've been thinking a lot about, in that first week,

when you talked about how we come in response to God.

Yes.

That's personal, we come in response.

And just reflecting on how that's true in my personal relationship with Him,

that I come in response, so I don't have to work to get His attention.

Yes, sure.

Yep, yep, yep.

I have to be there to respond.

Yep.

It's already been said on that.

That's been really helpful for me the past week.

Yes, great.

And I think when I visit lots of different churches, not just in the US but elsewhere,

one of the things I notice is that more and more,

and I think it's partly through the influence of the charismatic movement,

I have a lot of regard for the charismatic movement,

but at this point I'm less patient,

where you come to church to get God's attention,

or the intensity of your singing gets God's attention,

or your intensity of experience more generally gets God's attention.

And I think it's just fundamentally wrong-headed that actually God's voice goes out.

And the fact that you and I are in church this morning is because we're responding to the voice that already went out.

He was here in church before we are.

He's the one who's calling us together, right?

We don't bring down his presence.

He's here waiting, right?

And I think that's a very fundamental kind of pattern that we need to be aware of and hold on to.

Anything on the Trinity from last week's presentation?

I might remind you that one of my fundamental pitches last week was that the greatest danger to the church in America and beyond

is that we're giving up on the doctrine of the Trinity.

For good reasons, we think that we're being friendly to outsiders by talking down our understanding of God, the Holy Trinity,

but actually in the end it will be the undoing of us.

We cannot relinquish our faith in the Trinity.

After we talked about that, I realized, looking backward,

how often I've heard and cooperated with, I guess,

evangelists who say, oh joy, are you looking for joy?

Come, come, you'll find joy in Christ.

Yes, yes.

Oh, you're looking for security?

Then, you know, you can look for Christ for security.

Yes.

Instead of saying, here is our God, behold our God.

Yes, yes.

And then, eventually, by knowing Him and experiencing Him, you will know security.

No, of course, and we place our trust in joy, or we place our trust in security,

or, to be a little bit sharper, sometimes we place our trust in justification.

Actually, we should be placing our trust in Christ, who gives us joy,

who gives us security, and who gives us justification, right?

Well, this morning, perhaps the least kind of encouraging of the metaphors,

worship is a classroom.

Not all of us have had positive experiences of classrooms in our life,

either from being a student or from being a teacher.

But I think, nonetheless, it picks up some really important themes

that we need to engage with.

For this is our challenge.

The average Australian, and I suspect it's no different for the average American,

watches six hours of advertisements on TV per week.

All right?

And that's the average.

So there'll be people who are watching a lot more of that.

If you think every hour of television has about 20 minutes of ads,

it only takes a few hours a day to add up to quite a substantial amount.

And what we're doing in church is we're trying to reshape people's loves

and imagination and hearts and minds in 90 minutes a week.

90 at the best.

Some churches only have 45, 50 hour-long services, right?

So just think of that for a minute.

There's six hours of ads shaping your head and your heart.

And we try and combat it with 90 minutes of church.

We don't have a lot of time to address those who are in church,

their hearts and their minds and their souls and their spirit.

That 90 minutes of church here at Trinity, it's 90 minutes.

That 90 minutes of church is just so important.

We've got to do it so carefully and thoughtfully and well

because the opposite kind of pressures are loud and strong.

What might be some other cultural pressures

which church on Sundays is trying to combat?

I think the lady here.

It's always the sports teams.

Oh, yes, I see.

Sure.

On Sundays, you mean?

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

Literally, that time slot has competing priorities.

I can't even remember when it was just starting.

Yes.

Now it's everywhere.

Yeah, yeah.

And much more acceptable.

So that's a really obvious time tabling challenge.

Yep, yep.

Our son is an oboe player and started missing school

because that's when the classes were.

And now he's in one of the greatest schools,

got his master's at NEC.

He stopped going to church.

You mentioned last week, I think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Out there.

Yep, so those are kind of time tabling pressures.

What are some other cultural pressures,

some things that make church look boring

or make church look unattractive?

TV.

So why TV?

Rather?

Yes.

Oh, entertainment is, you know,

maybe the, one of the greatest values in society.

Yep.

This has struck me that in the colonial US,

for a while the Massachusetts legislature,

considering a law requiring all churches

to have their midweek Bible study term meeting

on the same night

because they were concerned that some farmers

were going out every night of the week to church

and they wouldn't be, you know,

energetic enough to do their work well

because that was the entertainment.

Yes, yes.

Church was the entertainment,

which may have brought along a certain temptation

to weakness.

But whereas we had the corner on entertainment at one time.

Yeah, sure.

We don't.

Yes, of course, in days gone by,

churches where you got the political news that you shared

and you got to hear a speaker

who would be the most interesting presentation that week.

You didn't have much news from outside

or you didn't have people who were educated

who were speaking to you.

So all those kind of things.

But now entertainment is excellent and everywhere.

So sometimes it can make church look a bit dull, right?

Well, I was reading one guy this week who said,

in the MTV generation,

where you have visual clips that last perhaps for two seconds

or three seconds

and you go to the next frame or the next shot

and how can that kind of editing,

that kind of stimulating presentation

compete with one guy standing up the front

without different visual takes for half an hour?

No wonder church seems boring for people, right?

And I think this image that worship is a classroom

can make it worse for us.

If you say church is a classroom,

people, oh, I don't do classrooms.

Or if you go to some classrooms today, actually,

they're hyper-stimulated environments.

So I'm nervous about using the language of classroom

because it can have negative connotations.

The flip side of it is I think we can't

theologically get away from the fact

that church is for words.

Church is for learning, right?

So whatever we do,

these 90 minutes have to be well thought through

because we've got a massive opposing agenda

that we need to be confronting at some level somehow.

Now, of course, we have Bible study groups

or prayer meetings or other kinds of fellowship in the week.

So I'm exaggerating slightly to say

it all builds around these 90 minutes.

But I think you can probably see my educational point, right?

A lot rides on how we teach on Sundays.

Well, let me read to us from Psalm 95

because I think it has an important lesson for us

in our conversation this morning.

O come, let us sing to the Lord.

Let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving.

Let us make a joyful noise to him with songs of praise.

For the Lord is a great God and a great King above all gods.

In his hand are the depths of the earth.

The heights of the mountains are his also.

The sea is his, for he made it,

and his hands formed to the dry land.

O come, let us worship and bow down.

Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker,

for he is our God,

and we are the people of his pasture

and the sheep of his hand.

Today, if you hear his voice,

do not harden your hearts as at Meribah,

as on the day at Massa in the wilderness,

when your fathers put me to the test

and put me to the proof,

though they had seen my work.

For forty years I loathed that generation and said,

they are a people who go astray in their hearts,

and they have not known my ways.

Therefore I swore in my wrath,

they shall not enter my rest.

Well, this is a familiar hymn,

a familiar psalm to many.

It's been turned into a hymn frequently.

But basically it has just one or two major points.

The first half describes worship as singing and praise.

Worship as us speaking.

And it gives a reason in verses three, four, and five.

We worship, we praise, we sing,

because God is a creator.

But in the second half,

our worship is not speaking.

Our worship is listening.

Let us worship and bow down, verse six.

Let us kneel before the Lord, our maker.

He is our God.

We are the people of his past,

the sheep of his hand.

So it's not just that we're created,

not just that we're creatures,

but we're redeemed creatures.

We are the sheep of his hand.

And what does sheep do?

Well, actually, better than that.

Today, if you hear his voice,

do not harden your hearts as at Meribah.

So the first half of the psalm is,

you worship by singing or praising.

And the second half of the psalm is,

you worship by listening.

Because sheep should listen.

Obviously, on occasions they don't.

Sheep should listen to the voice of the shepherd.

And John 10 points this out as well.

But basically, Psalm 95 said,

worship is about words.

Either we speak words or we hear words.

And certainly when I use this psalm with my students,

they're a bit shocked to think that you can be worshipping

by shutting up and listening, right?

Because we're so now shaped by the idea that worship is us,

singing actually,

was actually here in Psalm 95.

To worship is to sing, to speak,

and it is to listen as well.

If you want to worship in Sundays,

we need to speak and we need to listen.

Worship on Sundays is a classroom, right?

Someone's speaking,

someone's listening,

most of the time.

And I think our daily worship,

our daily God-focused living,

God-centred living,

as well as our Sunday God-centred living,

is about words.

Okay, Romans 12 tells us that we worship God with all our body,

as our living sacrifice, of course.

And next week we'll talk a little bit more about that.

But at least we can't get away from the fact that

our basic relationship with the Lord involves words.

How does man and wife make a marriage?

Well, they give words of promise.

How does God make a covenant of people?

Well, he gives them a covenant,

which is words of promise and words of threat.

How do we exercise our faith in the Lord?

Well, Calvin says,

the chief way you know you've got faith

is by praying,

by using words,

expressing our dependence.

You can't get away from words,

though some people try to, right?

And assume that worship is about silence.

I have no problem with silence,

as long as in worship,

our silence is about us listening to the Lord.

There was a chaplain,

a very liberal chaplain at my university

when I was an undergraduate,

and he didn't believe that words were so important.

In fact, he used to,

it was very strange,

he used to not use the word God.

He used to just talk about G-O-D,

because he thought that was kind of

getting closer to not using words.

But it always sounded to me like

there's a little kid present,

and he was wanting to swear,

wanting to curse.

So he'd spell out the curse word, right?

Because he was very embarrassed

about using the word itself.

I just thought it was very weird.

But that was his trajectory,

that worship was about

using fewer and fewer words,

and trembling in silence.

Okay, so let's talk about

our experiences of Sunday worship.

What are things that have helped your learning,

and what are things that have hindered your learning?

And if worship is a classroom,

then teaching and learning are essential elements, right?

Our speaking and listening.

What are things that have helped

that process of speaking and listening,

and what are things that have hindered

that process?

James?

I'm just thinking that

I've not ever been a very good Bible memorizer,

but I'm a pretty good hymn text memorizer.

Oh, yes, yes.

So I think hymns are really important

in teaching and that's why it's important

to have real spiritual content in hymns.

Yep, sure.

So the medium of versified songs is really important

because it takes thoughtful writing

to create theology that's memorable, right?

And it's very important, yeah, yeah.

I went and saw, I was in Chicago this week,

and I went and saw Hamilton,

and I've had, because it's just such brilliant writing,

and I've had the raps going through my head all week.

I haven't been able to shake them.

I think somehow having the truth taught

and proclaimed from various perspectives

is really comforting.

I love that we have three pastors.

Oh, yes, I see.

Wonderful.

So we hear the truth,

those words that are in a different line.

Interesting.

Of different trajectory.

Yeah, sure.

And so you get, you know,

much fuller appreciation.

That's a good point.

And even if a church doesn't have

a pastoral team like Trinity,

having different voices can actually be

of great help in our learning, right?

Different, and it's true, isn't it?

People have their own style,

and I warm to that person.

I warm less to that person.

That person uses images, which I relate to.

That person uses sporting images,

which I just don't even understand

or begin to pretend I understand.

And of course that's going to happen,

and that's a good point.

Thank you.

I think also, as Susan started talking,

I was thinking of different perspectives,

as in within one service,

when I'm able to make connections between,

say, a hymn, the scripture reading,

the sermon text,

like across the service,

there's varying ways,

and it's the same truth that's expressed,

or different angles.

Yeah, sure.

The facets of the same.

Yeah, and I think that's really important,

and I think the folk at Trinity do this really well,

that I think if you've got this 90 minutes,

and we want to make it count,

and we want to make it an effective learning unit,

then I think every part needs to somehow bear

a connection to every other part,

and so that each part becomes mutually strengthening,

and so you've got one big teaching aim

that's expressed through the songs,

or through the prayers,

or through the reading,

through the sermon,

through the testimony,

whatever it might be,

and I think that's really, really important.

So I actually,

this is giving away my biases,

but I think it's really useful

that there's one mind behind a Sunday service.

In many contemporary churches,

contemporary worship-styled services,

they have a mind that's put together

the bracket of songs,

and a mind that prepares the sermon,

and a mind that might have

some other responsibilities in the service

for communion or something else.

I think that can mean that one part

is kind of knocking up against another part,

and there's not necessarily a helpful connection

between all three.

So I run the daily chapel service

at Ridley College where I teach,

and my students find this very odd

because they're so used now

to having different minds

behind different parts of the service.

There's one person who puts the service together.

There's one mind behind it.

Okay, that mind might not be the person

who's leading.

It might be.

That's a subsequent question.

But to have a unified educational

educational or pedagogical unit,

I think is very important.

But picking up Susan's point

about different voices,

well, something that it's useful to do,

even if you've got the same preacher,

is when you have Bible readings

to have two or three people

speaking the Bible reading.

It especially works well

if you've got an Old Testament narrative

where you've got King David

and you've got Absalom

and you've got Abigail or something.

I don't know if they ever appear

in the same passage.

I just made that up.

But if you've got three different voices

or gospel narratives

where you've got Jesus speaking

with different people and a narrator

and having some different voices

can freshen the Bible readings as well

because you've got a woman

speaking the woman's part or something

and you've got an excellent narrator

speaking that part and so on.

They're not big things,

but those little things

can make enormous difference

in lifting the mood of the service.

Sister, I think you had your hand up there,

did you?

Well, for me,

I think it's metaphor and similar

that I seem to learn from the most.

Like, I'll listen to all the words

and take notes

and then I get home

and don't remember the specifics.

Right.

I will remember a metaphor

that the pastor has used.

Yes, I see.

Or a simile or something very sharp.

Yes, and you might have a mind

that kind of is readily engaged

with kind of pictorial kind of presentations.

Yeah, yeah.

I really like the portion of the service

about confession and prayer,

like the movement through both

the reading of the word

and then the assurance of our pardon

in that time.

That's when Nick and I were first married.

We were in a Presbyterian church

that passed the peace.

Yes, yes.

And for a newly married couple

passing the peace every Sunday,

this idea of not letting our hearts get hardened.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, right.

That clause before hearing the sermon

Yes.

To have a soft heart, I think,

is really that assurance.

Yes, and at least in Australia,

Baptists rarely do that moment of confession.

I love it when we do it.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's a moment that uses words importantly

as we try and engage the whole congregation

and their recognition of their own sin

and give some very strong words of assurance.

It's a very, it's a profoundly gospel moment

in the service,

and it's also an importantly wordy part.

I mean that positively.

In the Old Testament, I don't know where,

but it says that we suffer because we forget.

And it's not that,

it's because we forget words.

Words from the pastor,

words from his book.

We suffer because we forget.

We forget his words and we turn away from them.

Yep, sure.

And Moses reminded the people

before they entered the promised land

that they were likely to forget

when they got prosperous

and that they had to remember.

And Keller, I just want to go to Redeemer,

one thing he said was that

there aren't any wild sheep

in the wilderness.

They die.

They need a shepherd.

You might see a wild wolf, bison,

but never a wild sheep.

Ah, I see.

Yeah, sure, sure.

Sure.

Not out there.

They die.

We're safer when we're together

than when we're apart.

That's true.

That's true.

Any other hindrances,

I can't even say the word,

hindrances or helps

that you would want to share

about your worship?

Maybe just hindrances,

sorry,

as far as my mind wandering.

Yes.

So I'm just trying to remain focused.

Yes.

Do you have some tips for us?

When I feel myself wandering,

come on,

back.

Yes, yes.

Can I talk to you?

Yeah, sure, sure.

I suppose that means,

from my perspective,

because worship is a classroom,

our Sunday service is a classroom,

that it really means I need to get

a good night's sleep on Saturday night,

because I would do that

if I were attending classes myself

on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday.

Why would I then think

that a late night on Saturday night

is the appropriate way to go

if I'm going to turn up

to a classroom or something?

Well, I think if it's a classroom,

we need energy to learn, right?

That's just the way it is.

I know that Mr Willow Creek,

whose name escapes me,

Bill Hyvel, thank you,

would never go out on Saturday nights.

It was a prayer meeting for him.

Any social engagements he'd say no to,

because he'd say,

I've got to make sure

that the night before Sunday,

I'm rested and I've prayed.

And while I don't agree with him

on all his thinking about church,

I really think that's just so commendable.

I mean, he probably had a big day

on Sunday as well, right,

with 75 services

and 2.5 trillion people turning up.

I have a similar thing

with mind-wandering,

but one of the words

that comes to mind for me

is I need this,

this is for me,

you know,

that reminder that

in our corporate gathering,

this word is for my heart.

Yep, yep, yep.

Yep.

Yes, a little bit of

wrap yourself over the knuckles.

I beg your pardon?

You have the right to take

so taking notice is huge.

Yeah, it is, isn't it?

And most weeks, I think,

at Trinity,

there's some blank space,

isn't there,

in the pew sheet

for taking notes.

You might have your own

journal otherwise.

Are you saying then

that there's no place

for emotion

or perhaps you've talked about

I wasn't here

the other two weeks

about emotion in worship?

So no,

I'm thinking emotion

is a big part,

but it's responsive.

The word always comes

before our reaction.

And I think one of the most

fundamental lessons of worship

is that it's responsive.

The God speaks first

and that's why we gather,

that's why we learn,

that's how we build each other up.

No, I'm more than happy

for worship to be

an emotional experience.

I think actually

the range of emotions

in church these days

is so narrow

we ought to broaden

the band.

So before Christmas

the staff asked me

to preach

the lament service

here on the Sunday

before Christmas

and I made this point

that actually

the band of emotions

these days

has got smaller

and smaller

and smaller in church.

You're only allowed

to be happy.

I have nothing

against happiness.

I enjoy it most of the time.

But it's okay too

to include other emotions,

right?

In fact,

the Psalms give me

a third of the Psalms

are laments

and they give me

permission to be sad

in church as well.

Isn't that part

of what we're being taught?

It's a classroom.

Yes.

The Psalms teach us

how to express.

Yes, that's right.

That's right.

The rest of the world

isn't doing that much better

than the church

and not,

the rest of the world

doesn't really want you

to be anything

but happy either.

Yeah, that's true.

That's true actually.

That's probably one of the ways

that there are cultural pressures

that we've given into.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm thinking of James' point before

about repetition

or memorisation of verses

which is kind of a struggle

for some of us.

What do you think

is the value in church

of doing things repeatedly?

It sinks in.

It sinks in, sure.

Yeah.

Like a cow chewing the cud.

It just sinks in.

That image is going to stay

with me all day.

Yeah.

So he does all day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, in preparation

is this kind of

inculcation?

Yep, yep.

It's always been a methodology

especially because

we've grown up

with so many

beliefs

and grievances

that we think

within ourselves

that to go ahead

and replace them

or like John Baptist put it

you know,

he must increase

that I may decrease.

Why am I going to do that?

Well, by continually

to study

and show myself

a truth.

So by inculcation

and learning.

Yep, yep.

I'm with you.

It's a pretty

hard sell

in many churches

to say

we're going to do

the same thing

every week

because we want

it to be fresh

we think

repetition

is inauthentic

we want it

to be spontaneous

so it's actually

a hard gig

teaching people

the value

of repetition

unless you're a parent

and you know

that you've got to

tell your kid

17 times a day

to say please

and thank you, right?

we kind of

but we don't

take it the next step

and say presumably

therefore

even adults

have to be taught

to say please

and thank you

in church

kind of regularly

or at least weekly.

Michael Horton

says that

the problem is that

people don't know

what to do

when they're bored

and that boredom

is a bad thing

and most of life

is full of

rote

rhythmic

you know

we do the same

thing every day

and you know

to look for excitement

around every corner

it's not a good thing.

No, that's right

and lots of our kids

are overstimulated, right?

My niece

is like always on her

I mean she doesn't

even talk to me anymore.

Yeah, sure, sure.

Yes, please.

Just the fact that

I think in our culture

we so worship technology

and entertainment

we've lost connection

to the rhythms of life

you know

the tide comes in

the tide comes out

the night follows day

and there's a certain

goodness

in tune

with those rhythms

that God has given us

and we're just

cut off from it.

Well the modern world

has been all about

disconnecting

from the

patterns of nature, right?

So we can

use electricity

and stay up at night

rather than going to bed

when the sun goes down

and all those kind of things

yeah, sure, sure.

I think the more potent

argument against repetition

is that things become

rote

and then we disconnect

from them.

You know, I think

I've been in churches

where we say creeds

we say

our Father

maker of heaven and earth

Jesus Christ

his Son

we say very important

profound things

that are not boring

at all

but we say them

in the same way

in the same fashion

at the same time

and we all get up

and it becomes

almost like a chant

like ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba

ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba

and then sort of

on to the next thing.

Yes, yes.

I mean an example

for us here

would be communion

because that's

obviously a thing

we repeat

regularly

and it's very similar

in its forms

and I think

the bottom line

is

do we collectively

as a church

recognize

the problem

of human nature

and the fact

that

we need

these constant

reminders

of ultimate

reality

and

I think

you know

if you take communion

in particular

that's a big part

of what's going on

in communion

and you're right

the danger

of repetition

is that it becomes

we think it becomes

inauthentic

we're just going

through the motions

we're just

we're just going

through the

the process

but actually

getting rid of

the regularity

or saying

the Lord's Prayer

in church

or having communion

however often

it might be

doesn't mean

that my mind

is necessarily

engaged either

that is

I've been in

in churches

that are very lively

without any sense

that there should be

repetition

or liturgy

but my mind

has wandered

and I've seen

other people

scrolling through

YouTube

and kind of

doing their

doing their

thing

in church

and I think

well

losing repetition

doesn't necessarily

mean that I'm

going to be

more engaged

it could be

it could be

that some

things repeated

actually helps

my engagement

I was actually

going to say

just push on that

a little bit

because

I grew up

in a church

that had

more liturgy

like that

and I

some of those

turns of phrases

or some of the

things that we

said

frequently

come back

to my head

as like

a little promise

and again

it's sort of

you know

not trying to

excuse that I

should memorize

more scripture

but these hymns

these liturgies

these things

that we've

done

do

are easier

to call to mind

because they

were placed

so deeply

that's right

I remember

being

I was just

saying

that's the

critique

against them

not that I

agree

I'm actually

very pro

I actually

heard a

really great

sermon

podcast

not at a

church

that was

about the

Lord's Prayer

and it really

convinced me

that it's

not a cop

out to

say that

daily and

frequently

I was

at the

bedside

of a man

who was

dying

and his

face looked

like it

had lost

all affect

and so

I said to

him

Jim

let me

pray with

you

and so

I knew

that he'd

learnt the

Lord's Prayer

he'd been in

church all his

life

and in the

old King

James version

so I

started praying

our Father

which art in

heaven

and his

eyes popped

open

and his lips

started moving

and he was

able to pray

with me

the Lord's

Prayer

and then

at the

end

there was

just no

affect

left in

his face

at all

it was

so deep

in his

soul

that even

in his

dying

breaths

he knew

how to

kind of

express

his

thankfulness

and his

dependence

on the

Lord

it was

just

wonderful

so I'm

a big

fan of

repetition

in church

done

kind of

well

and carefully

of course

but the

idea that

church should

be totally

different

every week

is just

an extraordinary

burden on

the pastoral

team

as well

as educationally

not necessarily

very wise

when your

kids are in

five or six

presumably they're

going to learn

their we say

times tables

is that what you

say

and they just

have to repeat

and repeat

and repeat

and repeat

and that's the

way you learn

now point six

I'm going to

leave on your

sheet the

relationship

between the

Bible reading

and the

sermon

that is

probably more

relevant in

some other

churches where

there are

very little

sermon and a

lot of

Bible readings

but we

might skip

that and

turn over

the page

what I've

been saying

this morning

is that

worship is

like a

classroom

given the

cues from

Psalm 95

that it's

about words

God's words

to us

our words

in response

or God's

words to

us and

listening to

his words

as a kind

of worship

as well

but this idea

that worship

is a classroom

has not been

a dominant

idea in

Christian history

and I

thought for

the architects

amongst us

this morning

I'd put in

some pictures

just to keep

them on

board

in the

Middle Ages

church was

understood as

a fort

and I've

given you a

small picture

and Matt's

helpfully

included them

in colour

a fort where

there's very

few windows

very close

to the ground

very thick

walls because

the world

is evil

and you need

to be in a

fort for God

to hold back

the evil

empire

but then as

the church

grew more

confident and

powerful

more and more

the church

was seen

not as a

fort for God

but as a

palace for God

with high

walls

lots of

glass

architecturally

the walls

could stand

up because

they'd invented

flying buttresses

or small

stone

pillars

outside

that enabled

walls that

were load

bearing to

have lots

of glass

in it

and this

was a

kind of

church

when the

chief goal

was to

help you

understand

that Christ

is king

not a bad

goal

but certainly

not designed

around hearing

and speaking

then after the

reformation

church became

a theatre

especially

amongst Roman

Catholics

who were

trying to

reassert the

centrality of

the mass

and so

the interior

of a

church

became more

and more

ornate

and full

of dramatic

imagery

a good place

in which to

celebrate the

drama of the

mass

but then in

the 17th

century and

forward

Protestants

especially

have seen

church as

a classroom

that is

built around

listening

not around

seeing the

mass

performed

and acoustically

designed such

that people

could hear

not with

a sung

voice

but with

a spoken

voice in

each part

of the

building

and I

think this

has become

more or less

standard

amongst many

Protestants

except

in the last

perhaps I

don't know

30-40 years

where we're

taking our

cues for

building

churches

not around

the church

being a

classroom

but an

entertainment

space

so we're

taking our

cues for

some modern

church

architecture

from the

concert hall

or from

the rock

stadium

not so much

as a place

for teaching

and learning

or for words

to be

transacted

so this

worries me

to be quite

frank

so churches

that have

the lights

so dim

in the

congregation

that even

if you had

a bible

when you

get to

my age

you can't

really read

it

or you

can't take

notes

as our

sister at

the back

said

because

you can't

see to

write

or you

have to

turn on

your phone

and shine

it down

on your

piece of

paper

and that

distracts

people

around

you

I don't

mind

there being

a band

on the

platform

I have

no problem

with bands

with various

kinds of

instruments

I'm not

saying we

have to

have organs

but I want

the architecture

to somehow

say that the

word is

important here

and having a

pulpit

or having a

communion table

which is God

speaking his

word through

bread and

wine

seems to me

really important

ways of

reminding ourselves

that church

is a

classroom

not just

an entertainment

space

now I get

the fact

that our

world feels

comfortable in

entertainment

spaces and

so we build

buildings that

are going to

be comfortable

for people

but I'm not

sure their

primary goal

is helping

people to

feel comfortable

because if we

are in church

to enjoy the

presence of the

Lord

well there's

going to be

moments that

are slightly

less comfortable

right

and making

architectural

space for

the word to

be highlighted

and our

learning to

be enabled

seems to

me to be

of extraordinary

importance

we've got a

couple of

minutes until

10-2 so you

might have some

comments or

reactions

in talking about

repetition one

thing that I

thought a lot

about is how

you just

mentioned you

mentioned the

story of the

man who was

dying

and how for

a generation

for generations

that was the

Bible and

that's what we

heard anywhere

it didn't

matter where

you went

you read the

King James

and you read

the King James

and you know

that was fading

as I got into

my mind

but there's a

value in that

in having the

same translation

that I've just

really come to

find very

important that I

told my read

the same

translation that

is being preached

from a single

translation

it is quite a

significant thing

isn't it when

many of us in

the room will

have different

Bible translations

and so on

I went to my

aunt's funeral

I don't mean to

be talking lots

about funerals

this moment

I don't know

why this is

happening

but I went to

my aunt's

funeral and it

was a civil

service she

wasn't a

Christian

there was a

civil celebrant

and there was a

little handout

with the order

of service which

was fine and

then this woman

who was she

was probably

in her 60s I

think who was

leading the

service went

off script and

said now we're

going to say the

Lord's Prayer

together and

everyone there at

the funeral who

was over 50 knew

the Lord's Prayer

in the King

James Version and

everyone under 50

had no idea what

was going on I

was asked to read

Psalm 23 and

this guy who was

about 40 came up

to me afterwards

and said mate that

was a great poem

you read

and I said

yeah it's a

poem like in

the Bible there's

a whole book of

poems called

Psalms he goes

well I don't

even know what

that is and I

thought what

happened those

over 50 all knew

how to recite the

Lord's Prayer the

guy under 50 didn't

even know what the

Bible was I think

the answer is the

1960s and 1970s

actually but yeah

but it just shows

you that in days

past that was part

of people's

learning now they

the people who

said the Lord's

Prayer probably

most of them

weren't Christians

that they'd

learnt it from

school or Sunday

school whatever it

might have been but

still it was quite

dramatic contrast

yeah that's right

yeah that's right

brother make this

last comment

when you were

talking about

how it became

the entertainment

actor that

becomes

the people that

ends up happening

is that because

it addresses the

flesh more than it

does the spirit

it separates even

further and the

adversary's goal

from the very

beginning is to

buy and conquer

and doing it

since the beginning

and if we're

all lost in

the dim

lighting and

they got

lasers they got

the lighting

just like a rock

concert it's all

nailed to the

flesh and praising

God at whatever

level is wonderful

except for the fact

that what ends up

losing what gets

lost is the

cohesiveness of

the body because

there's no

interaction it's

loud it's

so it becomes a

very individualistic

experience yeah

what I think

those folk would

say in those

churches is

accountability comes

through small

groups and so

they've radically

changed the balance

where accountability

lies from the

Sunday meeting to

the midweek

meeting and I

mean that that

has some value

but I still

think there's a

loss okay thank

you brothers and

sisters

next week worship

is a gym so if

you're feeling like

getting your

getting your

fitness on then

join us at

nine o'clock