Homosexuality

Let me start that. All right, we are in our fourth session of our class on gender and sexuality,

and I have just put the overall shape of the class on the front again. I'm not going to go over it,

but there's a flow to this class. We're sort of trying to work within the biblical story

of how we're created by God, corrupted by sin, redeemed by Christ, and awaiting glory.

So, in the next few weeks, what we're going to do is take some challenging topics that we face

sort of as we live in the midst of a broken world and as we look forward to the redemption that Christ has promised.

So, again, briefly where we've been. The first week we talked about how we're both beautiful and broken,

made in God's image, but broken by sin. And then we looked at how Christ has come to redeem us,

including our bodies, and that can look like marriage can bear witness to Christ's redemption,

and a life of consecrated Christian singleness can bear witness to Christ's redemption.

We looked at the different ways that the church needs both single and married people living their lives

devoted to Christ in order to sort of picture the fullness of the redemption that Christ has come to bring.

So, today we are going to jump into the topic of homosexuality.

Specifically, we're going to focus on what the Bible says to Christians

and how we should live within the Christian church.

And next week, I've switched up the schedule a bit, but so next week we're going to look at transgender identity,

and then the next week we're going to specifically think about how do we relate to our neighbors

in the world, sort of people who aren't professing Christians,

or people who aren't, or people outside of the church.

How should we as Christians relate to others in the world around these questions?

So, today I want to focus on sort of within the church,

but we will take some time to think about how do we bear witness to Christ in the world.

So, the two questions I want to address are,

one, what does the Bible actually say about homosexuality?

And second, what does redemption, what does a redemptive path look like

if I'm a same-sex, for a same-sex attracted Christian?

So, first, what does the Bible actually say about homosexuality?

And, you know, for nearly, for almost all of the history of the church,

the Christian church has been pretty unanimous in its sort of verdict on this question.

The traditional view is that God designed sex for male and female marriage only,

and therefore sexual activity between two men or two women is not in accordance with God's plan

for his redeemed people, and is one example of the sin that afflicts all fallen humanity.

So, that's often referred to as the traditional view.

Now, in the past maybe 50 years or so,

some Christians, initially within more mainline Protestant denominations,

but more recently, people who would identify as evangelical Christians,

have argued that the traditional view is wrong.

And, rather, the church should affirm same-sex unions,

and adopt what's often called an affirming view.

So, some denominations, particularly mainline Protestant denominations,

have officially sort of adopted that view.

But more recently, there are people from evangelical traditions

who are advocating this view as well, and I've listed a few.

Now, other Christians are sort of somewhere in the middle on this.

And some people have come out explicitly and sort of said,

you know what, we think that we should just sort of call a truce.

This has been such a divisive issue within the church,

you know, and we should just sort of agree to disagree,

and let everybody be, you know.

And so, the church has found ways to sort of agree to disagree respectfully,

but still recognize each other as members in good standing of the body of Christ,

about a variety of issues, you know.

How and when will Jesus come again?

You know, some of the issues we talked about, about science and faith,

and, you know, the creation story.

Or, you know, infant versus believer's baptism, right?

Now, different churches hold different positions,

but we can at least recognize that people who hold another position

can still be believers in the same gospel,

and we can still be sort of in good fellowship with each other,

you know, in some way or other.

And so, some people say, well, can we just sort of treat homosexuality

as one of these disputable matters, right?

Romans 14, Paul says, some issues are disputable,

and, you know, food sect,

he gives some examples,

observing special days, eating certain foods,

different Christians will do, sort of,

live according to their convictions,

can we just live and let live?

So, those are sort of the three views.

And another version of this third view is,

let's just avoid talking about this issue.

Okay?

It's not sort of explicitly stating,

let's agree to disagree.

It's just saying,

let's avoid this issue as much as we can.

And some churches are trying to do that.

It doesn't,

it doesn't last very long, but,

but anyway.

So, now, before we,

so I want to consider what people are saying

in regards to these views.

Before we dive into,

sort of, examining biblical passages

and examining different views,

I also just want to step back and say,

almost nobody changes their views on this topic

purely through an extensive study of scripture

and reading scholarly books.

For most people today,

this question also has significant personal

and emotional and relational ramifications.

questions like,

what about my gay brother,

sister,

son,

daughter,

aunt,

uncle,

friend,

neighbor?

You know,

many people argue that the traditional view

has been harmful

to people who identify as

LGBT,

many of whom have lived under

a cloud of fear and shame.

Or,

for people who do experience same-sex attraction,

a question may be,

why hasn't God taken this away?

I've begged and pleaded and prayed

more than anything else that God would.

And yet,

it's still here.

And I don't feel a shred of attraction

to the opposite sex.

And practically,

if I think about a life of celibacy,

can that actually be a life of flourishing?

Right?

So,

these are some of the questions

that I think

people are wrestling with

and many of us are wrestling with.

And so,

I don't,

you know,

if you're talking with another Christian

who maybe has doubt,

say,

if you hold the traditional view

and you're talking with another Christian

who has doubts about the traditional view

or who holds one of these other views,

I don't think that the best approach

is just immediately to quote,

you know,

a few scripture passages

that seem to settle the issue.

But I think

it's important to

sort of

listen and understand,

like,

what are the concerns

you're wrestling with

and how does scripture speak

to those concerns?

Right?

I've prayed and asked God

to take this away

and God hasn't taken this away.

Well,

that's a question about

unanswered prayer.

Right?

It's not really a question about

what does the Bible say

about homosexuality?

Right?

Now,

yes,

it's connected to that,

but there are often

sort of broader issues

that we need,

that we can

sort of work through together.

All right.

Having said that,

I want to look briefly

at specific texts

because,

number one,

we're committed as a church

to following

and obeying the Bible

and letting our views

be shaped by the scriptures

and not only by

our personal feelings

and emotional struggles

and relational contexts

and ultimately,

we believe God gave us

the Bible for our good.

So,

now again,

over the last three weeks,

I've tried to sort of

paint a big picture view

of what sort of God's plan

for gender and sexuality.

homosexuality.

And I don't think

that I've mentioned

homosexuality directly

at all,

but,

you know,

if you sort of,

if you,

you know,

I've done this deliberately.

I didn't start with this lesson

because I think it's important

also

to sort of

have this bigger view

first

before we jump into

some of these challenging

topics.

So,

again,

I think

those can be

good conversations

about sort of

everything we've talked

about the last three weeks

as well.

Anyway,

having said that,

there are six Bible passages,

six or seven,

that address homosexuality

in particular.

Let me go briefly

through them.

First is Genesis 19,

Sodom and Gomorrah.

Right?

That's where the word

sodomy comes from.

Briefly,

this is an account

of homosexual rape.

It is not an account

of consensual sex.

Later Bible passages

condemn Sodom

for a wide range of sins,

including pride,

gluttony,

neglecting to help the poor,

hostility towards

God's messengers,

as well as

sexual immorality.

So,

the example of Sodom and Gomorrah

by itself,

I think,

is not decisive

for the modern question

of,

should the church

approve of

and bless

consensual

same-sex relationships?

So,

I don't think

that's the best

text to

quote,

one way or the other.

Then,

we go to Leviticus.

Laws of the Old Testament,

you shall not lie

with a male

as with a woman,

it is an abomination.

And Leviticus 20.13

prescribes the death

penalty

for such acts,

as well as

other violations

of the marriage covenant,

including adultery,

incest,

and bestiality.

Now,

pretty much everyone agrees

that Leviticus

prohibited gay sex

within ancient Israel.

The question is,

do these laws

still apply

to Christians today?

And some people

will say,

why are Christians

saying that Leviticus

even matters?

Leviticus says

you shouldn't eat

shrimp and pork,

and most of us

feel completely free

to eat shrimp and pork.

It says you shouldn't

have clothes

that are mixed

of, you know,

cotton and linen

or two different fabrics,

and probably everything

I'm wearing

has more than

one fabric,

right?

Now,

the big picture,

though,

is there's basically

two kinds of laws

in the Old Testament.

There's ceremonial laws

which are fulfilled

in the coming of Jesus,

and so Christians

don't obey

the ceremonial laws.

Clean and unclean foods,

different kinds of clothing,

you know,

all the sacrifices,

right?

They're all fulfilled

in the person of Jesus.

They're sort of shadows

of who Christ is.

But the moral laws,

love your neighbor

as yourself,

honor your father

and mother,

don't murder,

don't steal,

don't commit adultery,

don't lie,

don't covet,

well, all of those

we say,

oh, yes,

as Christians,

oh, yeah,

we still obey those.

And guess what?

All of those

are also reaffirmed

in the New Testament.

So that's the best way

to tell,

you know,

does Leviticus matter,

should we obey

a law in Leviticus

is,

does the New Testament

reaffirm it?

Well,

then to answer that,

we can go to

1 Corinthians 6,

9 to 11,

in which it says,

do not be deceived,

neither the sexually immoral,

nor idolaters,

nor adulterers,

nor men who practice

homosexuality,

nor thieves,

nor the greedy,

nor drunkards,

nor revilers,

nor swindlers

will inherit God's kingdom.

Now,

there's a similar verse

in 1 Timothy,

1 Timothy 1 · chapter mention

chapter 1,

and both of these verses

actually sort of follow

the pattern

of the Ten Commandments.

So they're reaffirming

don't commit adultery,

right,

nor thieves,

right,

don't steal,

nor,

so revilers,

that would be in the category

of bearing false witness,

and greedy,

could be interpreted

as coveting.

So,

so it's sort of

reaffirming those,

particularly the second half

of the Ten Commandments,

as well as idolaters,

right,

the first,

that's the first four

of the Ten Commandments,

and the list in 1 Timothy

sort of follows

the shape of the Ten Commandments

even more explicitly.

But included

in both of those lists

is,

are two words,

well,

two words in 1 Corinthians

and one in

Arsino Koitai

is in 1 Timothy

that are translated

men who practice homosexuality.

Now,

some scholars

who

take an affirming view

argue

Paul was just talking about

homosexual prostitution

or exploitation,

right,

in the Greco-Roman world,

sometimes it was

an older man

and a younger boy,

often a sort of

a tutor and a student

who would be having

homosexual relations together.

And so,

some people are saying

that's what Paul

was prohibiting.

But actually,

there are Greek words

that specifically refer to that,

what we call pederasty.

And Paul did not use

those words.

He used a word,

Arsino Koitai,

which is probably,

probably was a word

that Paul invented

the first time

that it appears.

in Greek literature.

But it is

connected to the Greek translation

of Leviticus 20.

So,

arson is male

and koitai is intercourse.

And it comes right

from that Leviticus 20,

13

Greek translation

of that verse.

So,

which says,

whoever lies with a male

is with a woman.

They have both done

what is not pleasing

to God.

Question.

Are you saying

that that was

the Septuagint word?

Yes.

So,

Paul didn't invent it.

No,

sorry.

In the Septuagint,

so,

whoever lies with a male,

I think it's something like

whoever,

you know,

koitai,

arson,

as with a woman.

And he says,

arson,

no koitai.

So,

he's taking two words

that are right next to each other

and just making them

a compound word.

Hard to tell

in the manuscript

where there were no spaces

between the words.

Oh,

true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway,

it seems very clear

that Paul's specifically

referring to that verse.

That's the point.

And so,

so it seems that Paul

is specifically reaffirming

that Leviticus prohibition

in the context of reaffirming

the Ten Commandments

more broadly.

The other passage,

and this is sort of the passage

that speaks

in the biggest context

about homosexuality

is Romans 1.

And you can turn there

if you want to.

But in the context

of Romans 1,

Paul's describing

a variety of attitudes

and behaviors

typical of the Gentile world

in his day.

And Paul says

these particular sins

are the result

of humanity's ongoing

alienation from

and rebellion against God.

And there's a very wide

variety of things

that Paul mentions.

At the end of the chapter

he just goes into

a long list.

All manner of unrighteousness,

evil, covetousness,

malice, envy,

murder, strife,

deceit, maliciousness,

gossiping, slandering,

hating God,

insolence,

haughtiness,

boasting,

disobedience to parents,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Right?

So there's a whole long list

that Paul's dealing with

and Paul's saying

all of these behaviors

are manifestations

of humanity's broader

alienation from God

and rejection of God.

But specifically

there's sort of a pattern

of words that he uses.

So verse 23 he says

they exchanged,

the pattern is

human beings exchange

God's good gifts

for corrupt alternatives.

And so God therefore

gives them over

to their own sinful desires.

So people exchanged

the glory of the immortal God

for images, idols,

so God gave them up

to impurity.

They exchanged the truth

about God for a lie,

so God gave them up

to dishonorable passions.

That's then

verse 26 to 27

he talks about

their women exchanged

natural relations

for those contrary to nature.

The men gave up

natural relations with women,

were consumed with passion

for one another,

so God gave them up

to a debased mind

to do what ought not

to be done.

So the picture here

is more broadly

people have,

humanity has exchanged

God's good gifts

for corrupt alternatives

and as a result

God has sort of

given us over

to our own sinful desires

and that's why we see

sort of the various

expressions of sinful

attitude and behavior

in the world.

So what's the big picture?

Included a couple

of quotes here.

Richard Hayes

talks about when human beings

engage in homosexual activity,

they are enacting

a rejection

of the creator's design.

Rosaria Butterfield

makes a good point.

She says,

homosexuality,

like all particular sins,

is a symptom

and not the cause.

That is,

it tells us

where our heart

has been,

not who we inherently

are or what we're

destined to become.

So she says,

committing my life

to Christ,

she had been

in a lesbian relationship

when she came

to faith in Christ

and she said,

committing my life

to Christ meant

not going back

to my heterosexual past

but going forward

to something entirely new.

So in other words,

Paul doesn't say

the main problem

in your life

is that you're gay

and you need

to get straight.

He says,

the main problem

in your life

is that you are

alienated from God

and that's true

of every one of us.

And homosexuality

is just one symptom

of that broader

alienation from God

and what you need,

what we all need

is to be reconciled

to God

through Jesus Christ

and then to begin

to sort of

experience

the redemption

of our bodies

and working for that.

let me stop

and take any questions

about these passages.

Okay.

A couple other

sort of common objections

that people present.

One is,

but Jesus didn't say

anything about homosexuality.

You know,

I mean,

maybe this was

just Paul's hang-up.

Paul was influenced

by rabbinic traditions

and,

you know,

he's just sort of

expressing a cultural

view of his time.

Well,

a couple things.

First,

within Jesus'

Jewish cultural context,

there was no debate

about homosexual practice.

It was universally regarded

as contrary

to God's will

and typical

of the Gentile

pagan world

outside.

And so,

and when Jesus

disagreed with the Pharisees,

he did not tend

to hide

his disagreement.

We have lots of examples

where Jesus disagreed

openly with the Pharisees

about all kinds of things.

And so,

if Jesus was silent

about something,

it probably means

he agreed.

And actually,

specifically,

Jesus explicitly affirmed

male-female marriage

in Matthew 19,

referring back

to Genesis 1,

have you not read,

he who created them

from the beginning

made them male

and female

and said,

therefore a man

shall leave his father

and mother

and hold fast

to his wife

and the two

shall become

one flesh.

So,

Jesus' reasoning

is as follows.

God made us

male and female,

two complementary

sexes,

therefore marriage

is intended

to be monogamous

between two people,

not polygamous,

and unbroken,

not a cycle

of repeated divorce

and remarriage.

That's what he was

talking about.

People were sort of

pursuing divorce

for very light

reasons

and for not

very serious reasons

and Jesus says,

no,

that's not God's

intention.

God's intention

is that marriage

is a picture

of male and female

united together

and ultimately

God and his people

united together.

Now,

if you take

that same reasoning

to complementary

sexes,

well,

marriage also

has to be

male and female.

right?

And the only

other option

Jesus commended

was celibacy

for God's kingdom.

So,

I think Jesus

does say things

that have implications

here.

Other question,

well,

couldn't we just

agree to disagree

even if

maybe that's,

you know,

how we understand

the Bible,

maybe other people

understand it

differently.

But,

you know,

Paul mentioned

some kinds of things

where Christians

can agree to disagree,

you know,

what kinds of foods

we eat,

what days we observe,

you know,

whether or not

you drink alcohol

in moderation.

But Paul warns

strongly against

greed,

lying,

pride,

bitterness,

rage,

and sexual immorality.

And he doesn't

consider those things

disputable matters

where Christians

can agree to disagree.

He warns strongly

against them.

And I think

in the bigger picture,

drawing boundaries

is not inherently

unloving.

Every church,

even the most

progressive church,

will want to draw

some boundaries

on attitudes

and behaviors,

whether it's sexual

or otherwise,

that are seen

as exploitative

or harmful

or wrong,

right?

This is not what

we want to characterize

our community,

right?

Every community

is going to draw

some boundaries.

And I think

really the question

is,

how do we,

in love

and patience

and clarity

and humility,

how do we

sort of seek

to live within,

communicate

and live together

within the wise

boundaries that God

has set out for us?

Yes,

many,

it's true

that many

gay and lesbian

people have felt

very hurt

and shamed

by people

who hold

the traditional

view.

But I don't

think it's

automatically

just because

people hold

the traditional

view,

but often

we haven't

communicated

that

or

with

sort of

these kind

of Christ-like

qualities.

So,

conclusion,

I don't think

there's any

biblical warrant

to depart

from the

traditional

Christian view.

But,

having said that,

I don't think

it's enough

to just say that.

I think we also

have to ask the

question,

what does it

look like

for a follower

of Christ

who experiences

same-sex attraction

to live a life

of flourishing

and growth

and

redemption?

Well,

let me just

briefly look

at broader

context of

these two

passages,

1 Corinthians 6

and Romans 1,

that speak

particularly

about

homosexuality.

You know,

that 1 Corinthians

passage goes

on to

say,

you know,

don't be,

it says,

don't be

deceived,

people who

sort of

habitually

and sort

of

persistently

and unrepentantly

sort of

reflect these

qualities won't

inherit God's

kingdom,

but then Paul

says,

and such

were some

of you.

But,

you were

washed,

you were

sanctified,

you were

justified in

the name of

the Lord Jesus

Christ and

by the

Spirit of

our God.

So Paul's

saying our

sexual

attractions and

even our

past sexual

sins are

not what

define us

at the

very deepest

level.

And man,

that is

good news.

That is

good news

for

everyone who

is engaged

in any kind

of sin

listed in

that list

or in

any of the

other sin

lists in

the New

Testament.

And you

know what?

We all

find ourselves

in one of

those lists

somewhere.

that when

God looks

at us

through

Christ,

that is

not what

defines us

at the

deepest

level.

And instead

in Christ

we have a

new identity,

we're washed,

that means

cleansed of

guilt and

shame,

we're set

apart for

God's

holy purposes,

sanctified,

and we're

justified,

declared

righteous in

God's sight

because of

Christ's

atoning work.

And the

chapter goes

on to talk

about how

now our

bodies are

temples of

the Holy

Spirit.

God has

come to

dwell in

our bodies.

And so

even when

our bodies

have been

used in

ways that

dishonor God

and we feel

that very

deeply,

God does

not see

us,

God comes

to dwell in

us by

his Holy

Spirit and

he honors

us.

And so

he doesn't

leave us

in a place

of self

hatred or

shame or

sort of

despair,

but he

comes and

brings healing

and hope.

There's a

similar pattern

in the book

of Romans,

again,

about,

you know,

the beginning

of Romans

is about

how all

humanity

has fallen

into sin

and,

you know,

Paul talks

about the

sins that

were characteristic

of the

Gentile world

in Romans 1

and then he

turns to the

religious world,

the Jewish

world,

and he

says,

self-righteousness

is just as

damning as

all of these

other sins.

And his

conclusion is

both Jew and

Gentile are all

under the power

of sin.

We are all

in the same

boat.

And what's

our hope?

Our hope is

Christ came

to die for us

while we were

still sinners

out of his

love for us.

And through

him we can

be buried

with him

and raised

with him

and walk

in newness

of life.

And Romans

is very

realistic.

You know,

read Romans

7.

You're struggling

with sin?

Read Romans

7.

Yeah.

It's real.

I do what I

don't want to do

and I don't do

what I don't

want to do.

You know,

I mean,

this weekend

I was there

with like

getting really

impatient at my

kids and yelling

at them like

over and over

and I had to

repent over and

over to them.

Like even though

they needed to

repent over and

over as well.

You know,

like I do

what I don't

want to do.

And,

you know,

but then Romans

says,

Romans 8 says

there's no

condemnation for

all who are in

Christ Jesus.

And then it

points us toward

the future hope

of our

redemption of

our bodies.

So,

to what are

Christians who

experience same

sex attraction

called to?

I've included a

quote from C.S.

Lewis.

This was back

in the 50s,

but a college

professor who

had recently

become a

Christian and

wrote to

Lewis and was

basically like,

hmm,

like some

college students

are coming to

us and,

you know,

saying that

they,

you know,

only feel

desire,

you know,

only feel

same-sex

attraction.

What should

we do?

So,

I've included

Lewis's quote.

I think there's

a lot of good

stuff in

there.

But one of

the things that

he says is,

you know,

is every,

well,

let's see.

So,

I'll read

some of this.

So,

Jesus' disciples

were not told

why the man

was born blind

in John 9.

Only,

the final cause

or God's purpose

is that the

works of God

should be made

manifest in him.

This suggests

that in homosexuality,

as in every other

tribulation,

God's works

can be made

manifest.

In other words,

that every disability

conceals a vocation,

if only we can find it,

which will turn the

necessity

to glorious gain.

Right?

What he's saying

is that our

weaknesses

may actually be

sort of a doorway

to our calling,

our particular

calling as

Christians.

And he said,

at the end,

he says,

like all other

tribulations,

it must be

offered to God.

His guidance,

how to use it,

must be sought.

So,

to what are

Christians who

experience

same-sex attraction

called to?

Well,

I think the first

thing scripture

says is,

for the present

time,

celibacy as an

expression of

devotion to Christ.

Now,

again,

many people object

to this,

and they say,

isn't that an

unfair burden

to put on every

Christian who

experiences

same-sex

attraction?

Celibacy should

be voluntary,

not forced.

But,

the reality is,

there are many,

many Christians,

especially women,

because generally

speaking,

women outnumber

men in the

church.

In some places,

I hear in some

parts of China,

the church is

80% female,

in some places.

So,

many Christians

strongly desire to

marry,

but can't find

a willing,

believing Christian

partner of the

opposite sex.

And hardly

anyone's,

and a bigger

picture,

when Christ

calls his

disciples,

he calls each

of us to

take up our

cross and

follow him.

And,

most of our

crosses and

burdens,

maybe even all

of them,

I mean,

how many of us

choose our own

cross?

Jesus chose

his own cross.

He chose the

hardest one of

all,

bearing the sins

of the world,

which nobody

else could bear.

Right?

But,

most of us

don't have

anywhere near that

maturity.

to willingly

enter into

suffering for

redemption purposes.

Right?

I mean,

think of all

the crosses

and burdens

we face.

Physical

disabilities,

chronic pain,

depression,

childhood trauma,

and all its

complicated effects,

being born into

a dysfunctional

family,

being the victim

of racism

or persecution,

parenting a

rebellious child,

most illnesses

marriage to a

difficult spouse.

Now,

same-sex attraction

has a particular

challenge,

but it is far

from unique

in that respect.

A challenge

for all of us

is to believe

that God

can redeem

even our

most unwanted

burdens

as we entrust

ourselves and

all of them

to Christ.

Second,

I think

Christians who

experience

same-sex attraction

can receive

their identity

in Christ.

I want to leave

a little time

for questions,

so you know

I'm not going

to get into this

because I think

this is actually

not the most

important thing,

but there are

different ways

that Christians

describe themselves,

so there are

some people

who are calling

themselves celibate

gay Christians,

and there are

some people

who say,

no,

I don't think

that's wise

to sort of

take on the

label gay,

I'm going to

call myself

a Christian

with same-sex

attraction,

there are

different reasons

for that.

My favorite

answer to this

question,

sort of speaking

to a Christian

who experiences

same-sex attraction

like,

are you gay?

was from a guy

who I knew

several years ago

who was a

Spanish major,

and he said,

estoy pero no soy,

and if you know

Spanish,

you know what

that means,

because estoy

means,

this is how

I'm experiencing

life,

soy means,

this is my

essential and

unchangeable self

at the deepest

level,

and so,

yes,

I am at one

level,

that's how I'm

experiencing life

right now,

and it's

a significant

experience,

but is that

what defines me

at the deepest

level?

No.

Third,

here's a

challenging

question,

should we

pray and

hope or

expect for

someone's

sexual

attractions

to change

from gay

to straight

through the

power of

Christ?

Well,

biblical

principles,

one,

changing

one's

sexual

attractions

is not

the primary

goal for

Christians,

as Christopher

Yuan says,

the goal is

not heterosexuality,

but holiness.

There are all

kinds of

heterosexual sin,

that are not

pleasing to

God,

and are not

better than

having same-sex

attraction and

living a life of

faithful celibacy,

in fact,

they're much

worse.

At the same

time,

nothing is

impossible with

God,

and there are

many who can

testify to that.

So,

practical realities.

One thing,

so,

concern that's

often out there,

reparative therapy

is a

psychological

technique

with the

goal of

changing from

a homosexual

orientation to

a heterosexual

orientation.

It is

increasingly under

attack by

the gay

community in

particular.

It is now

illegal in

18 U.S.

states to

counsel minors

in this

way.

Christians who

affirm the

traditional

view should

not necessarily

defend or

promote the

practice of

reparative

therapy.

So,

these are

not the

same thing,

and some,

so,

let me just

say that and

put that out

there.

Sometimes it's

sort of a,

it can be a

sort of knee-jerk

reaction of

parents when a

child comes out

to them,

we need to get

you some

counseling and

sort of get

you fixed.

Well,

that's not a

Christ-centered

response.

Actually.

So,

practical realities.

If you're

content to

pursue a life

of consecrated

Christian singleness,

whether you

experience same-sex

attraction or

not, but say

you do experience

same-sex attraction,

there's no need

or pressure to

cultivate sexual

desires for the

opposite sex.

In some ways,

those would only

present a different

kind of temptation.

You can focus

instead on living

a flourishing life

of consecrated

Christian singleness.

If you do want

to get married to

somebody of the

opposite sex,

but feel it's

impossible because

you've only ever

felt same-sex

attraction,

I think that

could be a

matter worth

talking through

and praying

about along

with close

friends and

wise Christian

leaders.

But often I

will say the

process, and

this is true for

a lot of

things, the

process is at

least as important

as the outcome.

Right?

Sometimes there's a

presenting issue

that comes up in

our life and we

think, I want God

to change this and

fix this.

And you know

what?

There's five or

six other issues

below that that God

wants to deal with

even more than that

issue.

Right?

So sometimes that

sort of will bring

out maybe deeper

wounds, if those are

part of your story,

not part of everyone's

story, but part of

some people's story.

So again, resist the

temptation to idolize

marriage even if you

desire it, but that

can be a process worth

engaging in.

If you're constantly

overwhelmed by lust or

are regularly falling

into addictive or

habitual patterns of

sin, again, whether

homosexual or

heterosexual, seek

help.

Talk with a pastor,

seek some

accountability, join a

sex addiction recovery

group.

There's all kinds of

things you can do, but

do something.

Okay?

And don't just stay.

That's not a good place

to stay as a Christian.

Christians who pursued a

change of attraction

report a wide range of

results.

A small number of

people have experienced

a change in their

overall sexual

attractions.

A larger number of

people have entered

into a marriage with

someone of the opposite

sex and found it

possible to be sexually

attracted to that one

person while still

experiencing frequent or

occasional same-sex

attractions.

So Rachel Gilson is

somebody who's talked

pretty openly about

this.

Rachel Gilson came to

faith in Christ while

she was dating a woman

and as an undergraduate

at Yale, and she came

to faith partly through

the ministry of this

church.

So she ended up getting

baptized here.

She became a member of

the church.

She was here for about

10 years.

She ended up marrying

a few years down the

road.

She ended up marrying

a man named Andrew.

They're both on set with

crew in the Boston area.

And Rachel has some

articles on her blog that

you can read, which are

great.

And she had an article in

Christianity Today called

I Never Became Straight.

Maybe that wasn't God's

goal.

And you think, well, wait a

minute, but you're in a

marriage to a man.

And she says, yes, but most

of my sexual temptations

are two women.

Right?

And she says, well, I'm

going to be a woman.

Right?

So God's given me a

marriage and an

attraction to my husband,

but he hasn't changed my

overall sexual attractions.

Other people have not found

their sexual attractions to

have changed significantly.

And I've included a quote at

the end from Wesley Hill,

which I'll read some of.

He says, so much of my life

as a homosexual Christian, by

that he means one with

homosexual desires or

attractions.

He's someone who's committed

to celibacy.

So, so much of my life has

been simply learning how to

wait, to be patient, to

endure, to bear up under an

unwelcome burden for the

long haul.

Be patient toward all that is

unsolved in your heart.

Having patience with your own

weaknesses is, I think,

something of what Paul was

commending when he described

the tension of living on this

side of wholeness.

When God acts climatically to

reclaim the world and raise

our dead bodies from the

grave, there will be no more

homosexuality.

But until then, we hope for

what we do not see.

We are washed and waiting.

That is my identity as one

who's been forgiven and

spiritually cleansed, and my

struggle as one who

perseveres with a frustrating

thorn in the flesh, looking

forward to what God has

promised to do.

And isn't, isn't that

something we can all

affirm?

All right.

Five minutes for questions,

comments.

Amy.

I've always struggled with the

Old Testament polygamy, David,

and people who God, he doesn't,

God doesn't, I mean, God talks

to them a lot, but he doesn't

talk to them about their

polygamous relationships, it

seems like, most of the time.

So, I don't know, I don't know

if someone could look at that and

be like, well, David was

following God, but he also,

you know, has several lives,

and God didn't really seem to

say much to him about it.

So, I mean, I know, like, in

my heart, the reason, but I

just wanted your thoughts about

that.

Yeah, yeah.

So, I think, broadly speaking,

we see all kinds of bad

results of polygamy in David's

life and in Abraham's life, and

there's rivalry and jealousy and

in Jacob's life, and, you know,

so I think the general sense we

get of polygamy is it has

negative effects.

Now, with polygamy, it's a

little challenging because, you

know, if you're married to two

wives, do you put away the

second wife?

Well, in some cultures, that

leaves her sort of all alone and

defenseless.

So, that's a complicated issue.

And the other thing I'd broadly

say is, you know, there's, when

Jesus was asked about marriage and

divorce, Jesus said, well, Moses

gave you this law because your

hearts were hard.

Like, there are a lot of things

that God sort of tolerated in the

Old Testament, which he was not

happy with, which were not good,

which did not have good effects.

And, but Jesus says, now I've

come, and now sort of my disciples

are called to a higher standard.

And so, we're going to go towards

what God actually wants for us.

And that's what you could say to

somebody who's saying, well, I'm

going to follow God in every other

area except for this, and David did

it, so, you know, I can do it too.

But, but when Jesus came, it's a

whole new productive world that

we're living in, right?