Sermon

Know Your Family Tree: Turning Points in Church History

Trinity Baptist Church - Sermons

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  1. Well, last week I had a similar handout introducing you to three columns.

  2. The first column was the early church, that period that discussed the doctrine of the Trinity in particular,

  3. and their kind of summary phrase,

  4. under the relations written down in the phrase,

  5. Christ with us.

  6. In the Reformation period, they assumed all the insights that had emerged in the early church,

  7. but their questions were much more focused on what is grace and therefore what is the church for.

  8. So if the earliest period of the church summarised its struggles, its thinking with the phrase,

  9. Christ with us, then the Reformation period can summarise its debates,

  10. Christ for us, or Christ instead of us, Christ for our life.

  11. But after a couple hundred years of Protestantism,

  12. people realised that believing in justification by grace to the faith

  13. probably wasn't enough to establish a lively faith, a closed walk of the Lord.

  14. So these Christians of the 18th century, we might call them Gentiles,

  15. and so I said, yes, of course Christ with us, of course Christ for us,

  16. but we must not forget Christ in us.

  17. And they talked up the role of the Spirit,

  18. especially in adorning the world that was newly recreated under enlightened conditions.

  19. I think that the summary is really useful as a code map

  20. on which we can further details in the new ones.

  21. Today we're doing much the same thing.

  22. We're not thinking about three turning points as much as we can,

  23. three cultural moments that have shaped that final column from last week.

  24. So these three cultural moments that have shaped the movement,

  25. you might summarise as the Enlightenment,

  26. something that you've never done instead,

  27. it's the same thing.

  28. The cultural movement called Romanticism,

  29. and the cultural movement called Modernism,

  30. perhaps post-Modernism.

  31. Please note, just in those circles,

  32. I'm going to pay.

  33. Student in modernity and modernism are different.

  34. We all like being very modern,

  35. and we keep trying to find new ways of using the word modern to describe that.

  36. But these three moments

  37. are more like soundtracks from the culture

  38. rather than decisions that Christians have made

  39. to reform or renew their church.

  40. Just imagine this.

  41. You see on a video

  42. a man and woman, arm in arm,

  43. walking down a street at night in Paris,

  44. and the background music are violins.

  45. You know that they've just had a good meal together,

  46. they love each other,

  47. they're comfortable with each other,

  48. and they're going home together.

  49. But if that same visual scene were played,

  50. not with violins in the background,

  51. but screechy, screechy cellos,

  52. you'd know that walking down this dark street at night,

  53. they're about to get mugged.

  54. The music is warning you

  55. that something is going to happen any minute now

  56. that you have to be aware of, right?

  57. The very same visual

  58. can mean something different

  59. according to the soundtrack,

  60. the music that's played in the background.

  61. Evangelicals, these people from the 18th century,

  62. who wanted to work out

  63. how to have a close walk with the Lord

  64. under modern conditions,

  65. have had to stare down a few cultural shifts.

  66. Background music that actually shaped them

  67. more than probably they wanted to be shaped,

  68. or shaped us

  69. more than actually we probably wanted to be shaped.

  70. These background soundtracks are

  71. Enlightenment, Romances, and Modernism.

  72. Now, of these three,

  73. the first two have been well documented.

  74. The third is not so well documented,

  75. and it's something that I've been working on

  76. for the last couple of years.

  77. So what did the Enlightenment do

  78. to Christians

  79. who were wanting a close walk with the Lord,

  80. an experience of the Lord in their heart?

  81. Well, the Enlightenment

  82. talked up human rationality,

  83. human sense perception,

  84. human experience, if you will,

  85. perhaps summarised

  86. with a focus on the mind.

  87. Its characteristic was to help

  88. human beings throw off

  89. external authority,

  90. and especially throw off the church,

  91. which represented forces

  92. that were keeping people back.

  93. So that humans could trust themselves,

  94. trust their own experience,

  95. and trust their own reasoning power, perhaps.

  96. It wasn't necessarily anti-Christian,

  97. but it could be very anti-Christian.

  98. Human beings were trying to develop

  99. their own autonomy.

  100. There's some good things about that.

  101. I'm not just going to obey

  102. because someone's always not going to.

  103. I have to keep this through.

  104. I have to use my own common sense,

  105. my own consensus,

  106. my own rationality,

  107. to work out whether that person's trustworthy,

  108. whether I should go with them or not.

  109. It's not all bad,

  110. but it certainly did impact

  111. evangelical Christians.

  112. Because if they were already saying,

  113. we need to talk about Christ in us,

  114. then the culture was reinforcing

  115. the individual.

  116. Now, those first evangelical Christians

  117. who said,

  118. we need to talk about Christ in us,

  119. of course,

  120. were conservative Protestants.

  121. They were anchored to the Reformation.

  122. They were anchored to Greece

  123. in the early 20s.

  124. Remember that.

  125. But the culture started pushing them further

  126. from those big historical roots.

  127. If you will,

  128. often the image is provided of the machine

  129. to summarise what the Enlightenment was about.

  130. It's self-contained,

  131. well, probably needs a power source,

  132. but self-contained,

  133. regular,

  134. predictable,

  135. mechanical,

  136. of course,

  137. that's what defines a machine.

  138. Powered under its own steam,

  139. if you will,

  140. the result of human engineering.

  141. Now,

  142. the representatives of this movement,

  143. some of them are familiar to us,

  144. Jonathan Edwards,

  145. or John Wesley,

  146. in England,

  147. or in Britain,

  148. Sarah Osmond,

  149. in Newport, Rhode Island.

  150. These are great evangelical representatives.

  151. These were people who talked about

  152. not only Christ in us,

  153. but were trying to engage

  154. with the Enlightenment around them

  155. and make this new mode

  156. of being a conservative process

  157. more acceptable,

  158. more engaging,

  159. with the world

  160. that they were facing.

  161. John Wesley Neville

  162. always carried with him

  163. a briefcase

  164. with different kinds of tea,

  165. tea leaves,

  166. because he saw himself

  167. as a physician

  168. and he would prescribe

  169. teas to people

  170. to cure them

  171. as he travelled to the church.

  172. He kind of had this

  173. Enlightenment,

  174. rationalistic,

  175. scientific thinking

  176. that tea's got the answer

  177. to all your problems.

  178. John Edwards as well

  179. was very deliberate

  180. in trying to work out

  181. what the world

  182. was talking about,

  183. light,

  184. the Enlightenment,

  185. but he knew that

  186. the Lord provided light

  187. in his word.

  188. God provides

  189. supernatural light

  190. as it were.

  191. And he would deliberately

  192. riff off that,

  193. deliberately

  194. take the debates

  195. that the world

  196. was engaging in

  197. and use them

  198. for his own preaching

  199. for revival purposes.

  200. In fact,

  201. the revivals themselves

  202. are,

  203. if you will,

  204. using the technical language,

  205. an artifact

  206. of modernity.

  207. Luther never preached

  208. on the streets,

  209. in the fields.

  210. That was something

  211. that was simply modern.

  212. The revivals themselves

  213. were in part

  214. the creation

  215. of a new kind of culture.

  216. So the issues

  217. that Christians

  218. are available

  219. or the world

  220. are available

  221. in this period

  222. was how,

  223. what autonomy

  224. looks like,

  225. what does it mean

  226. for individuals

  227. to be autonomous?

  228. This is a world

  229. in which revolution

  230. threatened Europe

  231. and North America.

  232. This is a period

  233. when industry

  234. using big machines

  235. developed,

  236. which is also

  237. quite threatening.

  238. Although at this stage,

  239. industry is largely

  240. not in cities,

  241. but in rural locations.

  242. Because you need

  243. rivers to power

  244. factories and stuff.

  245. some of the names

  246. that,

  247. not Christian names

  248. by the way,

  249. but some of the names

  250. that you might

  251. associate with this period

  252. is Emmanuel Cart

  253. the general philosopher,

  254. Voltaire,

  255. the French philosopher,

  256. or Thomas Paine

  257. in the early months.

  258. Some of the outcomes

  259. of this new

  260. cultural movement

  261. were, of course,

  262. revivals themselves,

  263. but also

  264. the Methodist church.

  265. was born

  266. in this period

  267. and the Methodist church

  268. in various forms

  269. is still with us.

  270. But also

  271. in this period

  272. the modern missions movement

  273. was born.

  274. The Enlightenment

  275. enabled

  276. mass movement

  277. of people.

  278. It meant that

  279. ships could cross

  280. the North of Maine,

  281. not just the North of Maine,

  282. travelling there really,

  283. quickly

  284. upon the power

  285. of modern machines.

  286. so that if you

  287. wanted to go to

  288. Burma,

  289. if you wanted to

  290. travel to Australia,

  291. you could in

  292. really

  293. So that's the first

  294. cultural soundtrack

  295. that's playing

  296. at the same time

  297. that Christians

  298. are thinking about

  299. what it means

  300. to revive the church,

  301. what it means

  302. for us to have

  303. a close walk

  304. with the Lord,

  305. what it means

  306. for us

  307. to celebrate

  308. the work of the Spirit

  309. in our life

  310. or in the world

  311. around us.

  312. Let me pause

  313. and hear if you have

  314. any questions

  315. or concerns.

  316. questions.

  317. Well,

  318. yeah,

  319. where was the

  320. Roman Catholic Church

  321. at this time,

  322. kind of in that

  323. late 1600s

  324. to early 1700s?

  325. Was there a lot

  326. of upheaval

  327. or were they just

  328. struggling to kind of

  329. hang on to power

  330. with a little bit

  331. of everything?

  332. Yes,

  333. a little bit

  334. of everything

  335. because when you

  336. say the Roman Catholic

  337. Church,

  338. you mean the Roman

  339. Catholic Church

  340. in South America

  341. or in Italy

  342. or in,

  343. you know,

  344. they'd already

  345. reached out

  346. and gone to

  347. their different

  348. destinations.

  349. The Roman Catholics

  350. were ahead of

  351. Protestants

  352. in terms of

  353. global mission.

  354. Protestants

  355. were right behind

  356. on this floor.

  357. Sure.

  358. The Roman Catholics

  359. weren't classically

  360. liking the revolutions

  361. that were taking

  362. place,

  363. so they'd become

  364. quite reactionary

  365. and tried to

  366. address that

  367. question.

  368. I think this column,

  369. the first one,

  370. is probably the most

  371. familiar,

  372. actually.

  373. The second column,

  374. much less so.

  375. romanticism doesn't

  376. mean how to fall

  377. in love or read

  378. a good novel.

  379. Romanticism is a

  380. cultural moment,

  381. a cultural thing,

  382. which is in reaction

  383. to the Enlightenment.

  384. if the Enlightenment

  385. stressed rationality

  386. and your sense

  387. perception,

  388. romanticism has

  389. stressed emotion

  390. or intuition,

  391. deep connections,

  392. perhaps crudely put,

  393. when it's trying to

  394. highlight the heart.

  395. this was a moment

  396. that saw the

  397. shortcomings

  398. of enlightenment

  399. and tried to

  400. compensate,

  401. perhaps overreact.

  402. the deepest

  403. yearning

  404. amongst

  405. those

  406. promoting

  407. romanticism

  408. was a yearning

  409. for integration.

  410. And seeing that

  411. the Enlightenment

  412. had pulled

  413. people apart,

  414. your mind

  415. was kind of

  416. a different part

  417. of you from your

  418. body or your

  419. soul in

  420. Enlightenment.

  421. Men were

  422. regarded as being

  423. more rational,

  424. therefore men and

  425. women were being

  426. called apart in

  427. the Enlightenment

  428. as well.

  429. Romanticism has

  430. this yearning to

  431. put things,

  432. as it were,

  433. back together

  434. or to integrate,

  435. to see the

  436. connections

  437. between all

  438. that we experience.

  439. And if you will,

  440. the image that

  441. best captures

  442. the romantic

  443. moment is the

  444. tree,

  445. not the machine.

  446. The tree,

  447. the tree is

  448. organic,

  449. organic,

  450. the tree

  451. looks different,

  452. the very same

  453. species planted

  454. there and

  455. planted here,

  456. grows its

  457. limbs in

  458. different places,

  459. it responds to

  460. its environment

  461. and bends in

  462. this direction

  463. and bends in

  464. that direction.

  465. The tree is

  466. earthed,

  467. the tree is

  468. one with its

  469. environment,

  470. the tree

  471. captures something

  472. of what the

  473. romantics

  474. were trying

  475. to highlight.

  476. Now,

  477. the romantics

  478. was not a

  479. Christian movement,

  480. right?

  481. This was something

  482. that's happening

  483. around the church

  484. in the culture

  485. generally,

  486. but it did

  487. impact Christians.

  488. And some of the

  489. people you

  490. might know

  491. who most were

  492. impacted by

  493. this movement

  494. were Charles

  495. Spurgeon or

  496. Dwight Mooney

  497. or Phoebe Palmer,

  498. a New York

  499. doctor's wife

  500. who left

  501. Bible studies

  502. for them

  503. in her

  504. parlour.

  505. Now,

  506. you wouldn't

  507. say that Spurgeon

  508. or Mooney

  509. or Palmer

  510. were driving

  511. pro-applicism

  512. far from it,

  513. but they just

  514. kind of got a

  515. sense that their

  516. culture was changing

  517. and so their

  518. ministry style

  519. needs to change

  520. or their

  521. prioritising of

  522. energy,

  523. money,

  524. had to change.

  525. Charles Spurgeon,

  526. for example,

  527. Bolly,

  528. that churches

  529. should be

  530. comfortable.

  531. Right?

  532. Previously,

  533. you might have

  534. sat on a

  535. wooden bench.

  536. There might

  537. or might not

  538. have been

  539. something to

  540. lend your back

  541. on.

  542. In fact,

  543. it was only

  544. in the modern

  545. world that

  546. chairs were

  547. invented at

  548. all the church.

  549. Traditionally,

  550. you stood in

  551. church,

  552. right?

  553. That was only

  554. really,

  555. really wealthy

  556. churches could

  557. afford chairs.

  558. So having

  559. chairs,

  560. not only having

  561. chairs,

  562. but Spurgeon

  563. having added

  564. chairs?

  565. Some chairs

  566. still don't

  567. like that.

  568. He was a

  569. mega church

  570. pastor.

  571. He had

  572. 10,000 people

  573. in his church

  574. on Sundays.

  575. He designed

  576. a building

  577. that visually

  578. was beautiful.

  579. And something

  580. important that

  581. happened in

  582. Anglican churches

  583. or in other

  584. kinds as well

  585. was that

  586. previously,

  587. there had

  588. been two

  589. side aisles

  590. when you

  591. went to a

  592. church.

  593. One side

  594. aisle took

  595. your eye

  596. to the

  597. pulpit,

  598. and the

  599. other side

  600. aisle took

  601. your eye

  602. to the

  603. lectern

  604. where the

  605. Bible is

  606. read.

  607. But in

  608. the Romantic

  609. period,

  610. architecture

  611. changed,

  612. and it

  613. was decided

  614. to get rid

  615. of side

  616. aisles and

  617. to have a

  618. centre aisle

  619. that was

  620. focused on

  621. the communion

  622. table.

  623. Can you see

  624. that's a

  625. very subtle

  626. architectural

  627. change?

  628. No longer

  629. would the

  630. focus in

  631. church be

  632. what you

  633. hear,

  634. the Bible

  635. read or

  636. the Bible

  637. preached,

  638. but now

  639. the focus

  640. on the

  641. church in

  642. the centre

  643. aisle would

  644. be the

  645. table where

  646. the elements

  647. were,

  648. the bread

  649. and wine

  650. were.

  651. Of course,

  652. brides ever

  653. since have

  654. been thankful

  655. because a

  656. centre aisle

  657. is just

  658. perfect for

  659. a long

  660. time of

  661. a living

  662. service.

  663. But that

  664. wasn't

  665. originally,

  666. my church

  667. at home

  668. is two

  669. side

  670. aisles

  671. and people

  672. would want

  673. to book

  674. it because

  675. it's a

  676. very 260

  677. years old

  678. people want

  679. to book

  680. it to have

  681. their

  682. meetings

  683. and so

  684. on from

  685. the

  686. community.

  687. They come

  688. and go,

  689. oh my goodness,

  690. oh he can't

  691. have it,

  692. he can't.

  693. You've got to

  694. have a centre

  695. of the way.

  696. This is the

  697. period when

  698. Christians had

  699. this crazy

  700. thought,

  701. why don't

  702. we cut

  703. some flowers

  704. and bring

  705. them into

  706. the sanctuary?

  707. No one

  708. ever before

  709. had imagined

  710. that you'd

  711. have flowers

  712. in church?

  713. What a dumb

  714. idea.

  715. Flowers

  716. outside,

  717. right?

  718. They're

  719. growing

  720. gardens.

  721. Christians

  722. don't think,

  723. you know what,

  724. why don't we

  725. bring nature

  726. into church?

  727. We saw

  728. of course

  729. have windows

  730. that were

  731. stained glass

  732. so we couldn't

  733. actually see

  734. the trees

  735. that were

  736. around the

  737. door.

  738. That aside,

  739. we had

  740. decided to

  741. bring

  742. cut flowers

  743. into church.

  744. Crazy.

  745. the issues

  746. for Christians

  747. or the

  748. gender

  749. culture

  750. of

  751. Christians

  752. as well

  753. as

  754. how

  755. therefore

  756. do we

  757. create

  758. unity?

  759. Because the

  760. romantic movement

  761. is trying

  762. to integrate.

  763. And this

  764. was a period

  765. in which the

  766. Evangelical

  767. Alliance

  768. was founded.

  769. It was also

  770. a period

  771. when cultures

  772. became increasingly

  773. nationalistic

  774. because

  775. romanticism

  776. spoke about

  777. the importance

  778. of the local

  779. not the importance

  780. of the universal.

  781. And the local

  782. was I'm a German

  783. or I'm a German

  784. or I'm a Pole.

  785. Let's think

  786. about how

  787. our own

  788. local culture

  789. how we work

  790. together

  791. all together.

  792. And it was

  793. a period

  794. in which people

  795. were reacting

  796. to science.

  797. science

  798. was both

  799. answering

  800. the impressions

  801. but was also

  802. creating

  803. enormous

  804. problems too.

  805. Some of the

  806. leaders of this

  807. movement

  808. you might have

  809. heard their names

  810. are

  811. Jean-Charles Rousseau

  812. the French

  813. essayist

  814. William Wordsworth

  815. the English

  816. poet

  817. or

  818. Richard Wagner

  819. the German

  820. composer.

  821. Perhaps

  822. you could put

  823. Beethoven

  824. on that list

  825. as well.

  826. Beethoven's

  827. music

  828. is

  829. stormy

  830. Beethoven's

  831. music

  832. involves

  833. big orchestras

  834. big sounds

  835. this was a

  836. perfect

  837. way of capturing

  838. what romanticism

  839. is about.

  840. And one of the

  841. outcomes

  842. I've given you

  843. a couple of

  844. tiny outcomes

  845. that I was in

  846. church

  847. centre aisle

  848. they want

  849. a comfortable

  850. seating

  851. for example

  852. these are all

  853. kind of trivial

  854. actually.

  855. One of the

  856. the more

  857. significant

  858. outcomes

  859. was

  860. the pursuit

  861. of holiness

  862. and the

  863. establishment

  864. or the

  865. intervention

  866. of holiness

  867. churches.

  868. You wanted

  869. to be one

  870. with your

  871. world

  872. that was

  873. fair enough

  874. right?

  875. You wanted

  876. to be integrated

  877. and for your

  878. experience

  879. not to be

  880. chopped up.

  881. However

  882. how are

  883. Christians

  884. going to

  885. stand apart

  886. from the

  887. world

  888. at the

  889. same time

  890. that they

  891. were trying

  892. to find

  893. integration

  894. within the

  895. world?

  896. And they

  897. used the

  898. categories of

  899. holiness

  900. and holiness

  901. churches

  902. to do that.

  903. It's a

  904. uniquely

  905. mid-19th

  906. century thing.

  907. We did

  908. have them

  909. in Australia

  910. but they

  911. hardly exist

  912. anymore

  913. in Australia

  914. but they

  915. do I

  916. think to

  917. a more

  918. significant

  919. degree

  920. in the

  921. US.

  922. This was

  923. a time

  924. when

  925. Christians

  926. started

  927. valuing

  928. nature

  929. more

  930. and often

  931. therefore

  932. decided

  933. to organise

  934. conferences

  935. Bible

  936. conferences

  937. either

  938. near the

  939. beach

  940. or in

  941. the

  942. mountains.

  943. You might

  944. know

  945. I don't

  946. know

  947. locally

  948. the

  949. equivalent

  950. camp

  951. sites

  952. that

  953. you might

  954. head to.

  955. I think

  956. there's a

  957. place in

  958. New Jersey

  959. called

  960. Ocean Grove

  961. where the

  962. Methodists

  963. who headed

  964. down to

  965. their

  966. summer

  967. conferences

  968. and so

  969. we've

  970. got them

  971. all over

  972. Australia

  973. loads.

  974. In fact

  975. there's a

  976. town in

  977. Victoria

  978. where I'm

  979. from

  980. called

  981. Ocean Grove

  982. some

  983. American

  984. missionaries

  985. from Ocean

  986. Grove

  987. in New

  988. Jersey

  989. decided

  990. that we

  991. had to

  992. have

  993. an

  994. equivalent

  995. Ocean

  996. Grove

  997. in

  998. Melbourne

  999. and so

  1000. they

  1001. came and

  1002. bought

  1003. the land

  1004. and they

  1005. said

  1006. it was

  1007. a big

  1008. conference

  1009. centre

  1010. and so

  1011. on.

  1012. It lasted

  1013. not real

  1014. long

  1015. but it's

  1016. still

  1017. interesting

  1018. that the

  1019. churches

  1020. in town

  1021. own most

  1022. of the

  1023. public

  1024. spaces.

  1025. Of course

  1026. Moody

  1027. began his

  1028. conference

  1029. ministry

  1030. in Northfield,

  1031. Massachusetts.

  1032. where you

  1033. could be

  1034. close to

  1035. the

  1036. Lord,

  1037. it was

  1038. argued

  1039. if you

  1040. were in

  1041. nature

  1042. than if

  1043. you were

  1044. in the

  1045. city.

  1046. Which

  1047. theologically

  1048. is of

  1049. course

  1050. completely

  1051. done.

  1052. I kind

  1053. of get

  1054. the

  1055. impulse

  1056. impulse

  1057. that somehow

  1058. withdrawing

  1059. from your

  1060. work of

  1061. that world

  1062. and walking

  1063. praying as

  1064. you walk

  1065. through the

  1066. trees or

  1067. as you

  1068. sit on

  1069. the beach

  1070. perhaps

  1071. perhaps

  1072. can be a

  1073. different way

  1074. of configuring

  1075. what it means

  1076. that you have

  1077. a personal

  1078. place to walk

  1079. with the

  1080. Lord.

  1081. Let me

  1082. pause then

  1083. and hear

  1084. if you have

  1085. any

  1086. questions.

  1087. Yes,

  1088. I have a

  1089. comment about

  1090. your nature.

  1091. It's true that

  1092. theologically it

  1093. doesn't make

  1094. any difference

  1095. but I think

  1096. that the idea

  1097. for me anyway

  1098. is when you're

  1099. in nature

  1100. you're looking

  1101. around and

  1102. seeing all

  1103. the stuff

  1104. that God

  1105. created.

  1106. Whereas

  1107. we're sitting

  1108. right here

  1109. we're looking

  1110. and we're

  1111. seeing buildings

  1112. that man

  1113. has built.

  1114. Yes,

  1115. yes,

  1116. yes.

  1117. So let's

  1118. see this.

  1119. Yeah,

  1120. sure.

  1121. Yeah,

  1122. yeah.

  1123. Yeah,

  1124. of course

  1125. that's right.

  1126. Yes,

  1127. sir.

  1128. I wonder

  1129. if there's

  1130. a similar

  1131. sense

  1132. of motivation

  1133. as monasticism

  1134. in earlier

  1135. periods

  1136. of the

  1137. church

  1138. withdrawing

  1139. from

  1140. temptation

  1141. of sinful

  1142. others

  1143. and isolating

  1144. oneself

  1145. to one

  1146. who

  1147. is

  1148. biblical

  1149. God.

  1150. Yeah,

  1151. I think

  1152. that's

  1153. what we

  1154. try.

  1155. Yeah.

  1156. I think

  1157. that's

  1158. exactly

  1159. right.

  1160. There'd

  1161. been a

  1162. longest

  1163. period

  1164. in

  1165. churches

  1166. where

  1167. there

  1168. hadn't

  1169. been the

  1170. case.

  1171. Something

  1172. new was

  1173. provoked

  1174. in the

  1175. 19th

  1176. century

  1177. that gave

  1178. them this

  1179. trigger

  1180. to withdraw

  1181. because it

  1182. hadn't been

  1183. the case.

  1184. Well,

  1185. 100 years

  1186. before that

  1187. everyone was

  1188. living in the

  1189. country.

  1190. So you

  1191. can only

  1192. have a

  1193. withdrawal to

  1194. the country

  1195. when there's

  1196. need to

  1197. withdraw

  1198. from.

  1199. What are

  1200. all these

  1201. churches?

  1202. Oh,

  1203. okay,

  1204. I thought

  1205. everyone

  1206. gave us

  1207. the wrong

  1208. one.

  1209. But that

  1210. is

  1211. a good

  1212. question.

  1213. Yes,

  1214. so that's

  1215. a good

  1216. question.

  1217. They often

  1218. have the

  1219. language of

  1220. higher,

  1221. higher life

  1222. in their

  1223. label.

  1224. Now,

  1225. I think

  1226. the

  1227. Camberlite

  1228. churches

  1229. or the

  1230. Disciples

  1231. of Christ

  1232. are both

  1233. Holman's

  1234. church

  1235. movements

  1236. in the

  1237. US.

  1238. Nazarenes.

  1239. The

  1240. Nazarenes,

  1241. thank you.

  1242. Yes,

  1243. they don't

  1244. exist in

  1245. Australia.

  1246. Correct,

  1247. yep.

  1248. The

  1249. Salvation

  1250. Army is

  1251. a

  1252. Mormon's

  1253. church.

  1254. And the

  1255. Holy Church

  1256. in the US

  1257. grew strongly

  1258. after the

  1259. Civil War

  1260. where the

  1261. Civil War

  1262. divided.

  1263. Holiness

  1264. churches

  1265. tried to

  1266. talk up

  1267. our

  1268. unity and

  1269. holiness

  1270. with

  1271. whatever

  1272. your

  1273. politics,

  1274. whatever

  1275. your

  1276. life.

  1277. Thank you.

  1278. I can't

  1279. assume too

  1280. much.

  1281. It wasn't

  1282. a very

  1283. good

  1284. ordinance.

  1285. Yes,

  1286. sir?

  1287. So,

  1288. as the

  1289. Romantic

  1290. period was

  1291. beginning to

  1292. wane,

  1293. it seems

  1294. the

  1295. rationalists

  1296. that last

  1297. laughed when

  1298. Darwin published

  1299. his book in

  1300. 1859.

  1301. Then,

  1302. because that

  1303. is purely a

  1304. book of the

  1305. mind,

  1306. book of

  1307. I might

  1308. qualify that.

  1309. Yeah.

  1310. Yeah.

  1311. Yeah.

  1312. I'm most

  1313. willing to

  1314. hear that

  1315. qualification.

  1316. But it

  1317. seems to me

  1318. that that

  1319. then provides

  1320. the underpinning

  1321. for how

  1322. shall we

  1323. regard

  1324. the now

  1325. burgeoning

  1326. industrial

  1327. revolution

  1328. from the

  1329. mid-19th

  1330. century

  1331. on.

  1332. how

  1333. shall

  1334. we

  1335. regard

  1336. that

  1337. with

  1338. regard

  1339. to

  1340. culture

  1341. and

  1342. humanity

  1343. and

  1344. the

  1345. environment

  1346. and so

  1347. forth.

  1348. Well,

  1349. it's man

  1350. in Darwinism,

  1351. it's man

  1352. against the

  1353. environment.

  1354. It's man

  1355. against all

  1356. that would

  1357. come against

  1358. the mind.

  1359. Yes and

  1360. no.

  1361. So,

  1362. Darwin,

  1363. I don't

  1364. have to

  1365. drink this,

  1366. evolution.

  1367. Stresses

  1368. natural,

  1369. slow,

  1370. organic

  1371. processes.

  1372. So,

  1373. in lots

  1374. of ways,

  1375. Darwin

  1376. was the

  1377. result or

  1378. sat comfortably

  1379. within the

  1380. romantic

  1381. movement because

  1382. he's doing

  1383. the opposite

  1384. of seeing

  1385. nature as

  1386. a machine.

  1387. He's

  1388. speaking about

  1389. the slow,

  1390. minuscule

  1391. change of

  1392. over

  1393. kind of

  1394. resumption

  1395. over the

  1396. years.

  1397. So,

  1398. his

  1399. worldview

  1400. sat

  1401. comfortably

  1402. within the

  1403. romantic

  1404. movement.

  1405. Now,

  1406. of course,

  1407. he was

  1408. writing a

  1409. book,

  1410. so it

  1411. appeals to

  1412. the

  1413. mind,

  1414. of course,

  1415. right?

  1416. He's not

  1417. anti-rational,

  1418. but his

  1419. observations

  1420. on how

  1421. it works,

  1422. whether you

  1423. agree with

  1424. it or not,

  1425. were

  1426. observations

  1427. which

  1428. described

  1429. slow

  1430. change

  1431. rather

  1432. than

  1433. revolutionary

  1434. change.

  1435. Revolutionary

  1436. could change

  1437. was something

  1438. that the

  1439. environment

  1440. had kind

  1441. of sponsored,

  1442. but romantic

  1443. had sponsored

  1444. a kind

  1445. of slow,

  1446. a slow

  1447. or gradual

  1448. change.

  1449. And I

  1450. think romantic

  1451. is still

  1452. with us

  1453. the same

  1454. thing.

  1455. Well,

  1456. so the

  1457. symbol for

  1458. normalism

  1459. is the

  1460. tree.

  1461. I would

  1462. imagine

  1463. that's

  1464. right,

  1465. yeah,

  1466. or the

  1467. finch or

  1468. something.

  1469. So I

  1470. don't mean

  1471. that they're

  1472. organic

  1473. trees,

  1474. I mean

  1475. the

  1476. evolutionary

  1477. tree.

  1478. Oh,

  1479. although

  1480. it works

  1481. by the

  1482. legs.

  1483. That's

  1484. it.

  1485. I'm

  1486. fascinated

  1487. by some

  1488. of these

  1489. changes,

  1490. especially

  1491. regarding

  1492. nature,

  1493. being nature

  1494. in a

  1495. church,

  1496. things like

  1497. that.

  1498. How,

  1499. in general,

  1500. I don't

  1501. know if

  1502. you can

  1503. speak to

  1504. this,

  1505. it's too

  1506. vague of a

  1507. question,

  1508. but how

  1509. conscious were

  1510. theologians

  1511. of this

  1512. shift?

  1513. I mean,

  1514. were they

  1515. aware they

  1516. were doing

  1517. something?

  1518. And did

  1519. they appeal

  1520. to scripture

  1521. for these

  1522. changes,

  1523. if they

  1524. were aware

  1525. of it,

  1526. or did

  1527. it just

  1528. happen?

  1529. It's the

  1530. air you

  1531. breathe.

  1532. You sometimes

  1533. don't even

  1534. realise

  1535. that you're

  1536. breathing in

  1537. obnoxious

  1538. fumes,

  1539. right?

  1540. And

  1541. things,

  1542. there were

  1543. some who

  1544. were much

  1545. more deliberate,

  1546. of course,

  1547. and when

  1548. the German

  1549. theologian

  1550. Schleimacher

  1551. decided to

  1552. put the

  1553. doctrine of

  1554. the trinity

  1555. in the

  1556. appendix to

  1557. his book

  1558. on theology,

  1559. he was

  1560. doing that

  1561. deliberately,

  1562. and he

  1563. thought the

  1564. doctrine of

  1565. the trinity

  1566. did not

  1567. represent

  1568. his

  1569. right

  1570. at the

  1571. moment.

  1572. But most

  1573. of them

  1574. were just

  1575. thinking,

  1576. we can't

  1577. have

  1578. something

  1579. that we

  1580. did or

  1581. felt,

  1582. or

  1583. too much

  1584. deliberate

  1585. reflection,

  1586. which is

  1587. a danger,

  1588. right?

  1589. Yes.

  1590. What are

  1591. we doing?

  1592. Yeah,

  1593. correct.

  1594. And we

  1595. said this

  1596. briefly last

  1597. week as

  1598. well.

  1599. My

  1600. students

  1601. said to

  1602. me,

  1603. what's

  1604. our

  1605. big

  1606. sin,

  1607. or what

  1608. don't

  1609. we

  1610. see,

  1611. of course

  1612. it's

  1613. really hard

  1614. to say,

  1615. to see

  1616. what we

  1617. don't

  1618. see.

  1619. But our

  1620. individualism

  1621. has to

  1622. be

  1623. placed on

  1624. the top

  1625. of this.

  1626. That was

  1627. kind of

  1628. my thinking

  1629. on Tom's

  1630. comment,

  1631. that it

  1632. seems as

  1633. if the

  1634. church is,

  1635. the evangelical

  1636. church is

  1637. always straining

  1638. to catch up

  1639. with culture

  1640. to understand

  1641. what's

  1642. happening now

  1643. and what

  1644. do we need

  1645. to change

  1646. to appeal

  1647. to these

  1648. people.

  1649. And

  1650. sometimes

  1651. it's

  1652. a,

  1653. I think

  1654. we've

  1655. just

  1656. got to

  1657. get used

  1658. to being

  1659. weird.

  1660. And

  1661. feel

  1662. comfortable

  1663. with being

  1664. weird.

  1665. Our

  1666. culture,

  1667. I think

  1668. in our

  1669. culture

  1670. they're

  1671. good.

  1672. I'm

  1673. the last

  1674. person to

  1675. kind of

  1676. wipe it

  1677. off.

  1678. But

  1679. having

  1680. said,

  1681. yeah,

  1682. we're

  1683. just

  1684. never

  1685. going to

  1686. be

  1687. like

  1688. our

  1689. culture.

  1690. Let's

  1691. just go

  1692. comfortable

  1693. with

  1694. doing

  1695. weird

  1696. things

  1697. in

  1698. church

  1699. and

  1700. having

  1701. weird

  1702. views.

  1703. except

  1704. to

  1705. understand

  1706. that

  1707. the

  1708. message

  1709. is

  1710. what's

  1711. important

  1712. not

  1713. the

  1714. means

  1715. as

  1716. much.

  1717. And

  1718. to be

  1719. able to

  1720. help

  1721. in all

  1722. these

  1723. responses

  1724. and

  1725. movements.

  1726. Yeah,

  1727. yeah.

  1728. And keep

  1729. coming back

  1730. to our

  1731. understanding

  1732. of Christ,

  1733. Christ by

  1734. his spirit

  1735. making us

  1736. alive,

  1737. dying for

  1738. us and

  1739. so on.

  1740. So we

  1741. need to

  1742. be

  1743. clear-minded

  1744. in having

  1745. a base,

  1746. a home,

  1747. a focus.

  1748. Well,

  1749. let me

  1750. introduce

  1751. perhaps

  1752. the most

  1753. difficult

  1754. column,

  1755. the third

  1756. column,

  1757. because

  1758. less has

  1759. been

  1760. written

  1761. about.

  1762. So I'll

  1763. give you

  1764. for you

  1765. in the

  1766. footer

  1767. there

  1768. an article

  1769. I've

  1770. written

  1771. on

  1772. modernism

  1773. and how

  1774. it's

  1775. influenced

  1776. which

  1777. you can

  1778. find at

  1779. least one

  1780. thing on

  1781. the internet

  1782. about this.

  1783. This is a

  1784. movement that

  1785. arose, a

  1786. cultural

  1787. movement,

  1788. again, it

  1789. wasn't sponsored

  1790. by Christians,

  1791. it arose at

  1792. the end of

  1793. the 19th

  1794. century.

  1795. And this

  1796. was a

  1797. cultural

  1798. movement that

  1799. said to

  1800. put things

  1801. back together

  1802. again, to

  1803. heal, to

  1804. get what

  1805. the

  1806. romantics

  1807. that we

  1808. talked about,

  1809. finding

  1810. integration,

  1811. the strategy

  1812. must be

  1813. increasing

  1814. self-expression.

  1815. To express

  1816. yourself is

  1817. to heal

  1818. yourself.

  1819. and it

  1820. would often

  1821. be linked

  1822. crudely

  1823. put to

  1824. the

  1825. will,

  1826. you

  1827. decide

  1828. to

  1829. express

  1830. yourself,

  1831. you impose,

  1832. not only impose,

  1833. but possibly impose

  1834. your view on

  1835. others.

  1836. It came out

  1837. of an

  1838. increasing

  1839. sense that

  1840. life was

  1841. fragmented

  1842. almost beyond

  1843. repair.

  1844. This was

  1845. when the

  1846. United States

  1847. police,

  1848. the

  1849. guilted

  1850. age,

  1851. the

  1852. lot of

  1853. barons,

  1854. industrial

  1855. work prices

  1856. that were

  1857. unsafe,

  1858. the rise of

  1859. unions,

  1860. and so on,

  1861. very

  1862. combustible

  1863. politics.

  1864. Things were

  1865. fragmented.

  1866. How do you

  1867. deal with

  1868. that?

  1869. Cities are

  1870. now almost

  1871. where most

  1872. people are.

  1873. But in

  1874. this period,

  1875. city life

  1876. was not

  1877. something I'm

  1878. knew to

  1879. do.

  1880. But city

  1881. life was

  1882. very fragmented

  1883. life as we

  1884. know.

  1885. The image

  1886. that I think

  1887. best catches

  1888. this moment

  1889. is not the

  1890. machine,

  1891. something regular

  1892. and predictable,

  1893. not the

  1894. tree,

  1895. something organic

  1896. and planted,

  1897. but the

  1898. volcano,

  1899. something

  1900. dangerous

  1901. in its

  1902. expression.

  1903. And there

  1904. was lots

  1905. written about

  1906. volcanoes in

  1907. this period.

  1908. Even yesterday

  1909. I was reading

  1910. a book where

  1911. there's this

  1912. long quotation

  1913. going to me

  1914. end of the

  1915. 19th century

  1916. about how

  1917. the earth

  1918. is unstable

  1919. and any

  1920. minute now

  1921. all these

  1922. subterranean

  1923. forces are

  1924. going to

  1925. come to

  1926. the surface

  1927. and yes,

  1928. another

  1929. volcano

  1930. boat.

  1931. I'm feeling

  1932. like I

  1933. wonder something.

  1934. My life is

  1935. weird and I'm

  1936. kind of chasing

  1937. volcano boats.

  1938. this period

  1939. is probably

  1940. less familiar

  1941. to the

  1942. most and

  1943. its leading

  1944. heritage might

  1945. be less

  1946. familiar as

  1947. well.

  1948. So locally,

  1949. Borden and

  1950. Gale,

  1951. William Borden

  1952. was an

  1953. example of

  1954. this movement

  1955. or in

  1956. Los Angeles

  1957. or beyond

  1958. 87th person,

  1959. a great

  1960. Pentecostal

  1961. woman,

  1962. C.G.

  1963. Stud and

  1964. a faith

  1965. mission.

  1966. C.G.

  1967. Stud was

  1968. English,

  1969. Catholic,

  1970. and he

  1971. served in

  1972. India,

  1973. and he

  1974. served in

  1975. China,

  1976. and he

  1977. served in

  1978. South India,

  1979. and he

  1980. served in

  1981. West Africa

  1982. as well.

  1983. So this

  1984. was

  1985. extraordinary.

  1986. I'm going

  1987. to beat

  1988. the world,

  1989. I'm going

  1990. to go

  1991. to the

  1992. hardest

  1993. places,

  1994. and when

  1995. one place

  1996. gets easy,

  1997. I'm going

  1998. to go

  1999. to the

  2000. next

  2001. place

  2002. that's

  2003. hard.

  2004. C.G.

  2005. Stud didn't

  2006. have a good

  2007. relationship

  2008. with his

  2009. wife,

  2010. in fact he

  2011. treated her

  2012. informably,

  2013. so his

  2014. great kind

  2015. of faith

  2016. mission

  2017. probably was

  2018. tarnished

  2019. by that.

  2020. She came

  2021. and visited,

  2022. she was living

  2023. in England,

  2024. raising money

  2025. for his

  2026. mission.

  2027. She came

  2028. and visited

  2029. him in West

  2030. Africa at

  2031. one time,

  2032. and he

  2033. basically

  2034. eaten the

  2035. water and

  2036. just kept

  2037. doing what

  2038. he was

  2039. doing,

  2040. so she

  2041. went home

  2042. and went

  2043. and saw

  2044. each other

  2045. again.

  2046. This is

  2047. a rise

  2048. of,

  2049. if I

  2050. have enough

  2051. will,

  2052. I can

  2053. conquer.

  2054. If I

  2055. have enough

  2056. willpower,

  2057. I can

  2058. make this

  2059. fragmented

  2060. world bend

  2061. to my

  2062. aspirations.

  2063. This

  2064. was an

  2065. issue

  2066. where

  2067. the

  2068. questions

  2069. of

  2070. power

  2071. were

  2072. front

  2073. and

  2074. centre,

  2075. both

  2076. literally,

  2077. this was

  2078. a period

  2079. in which

  2080. seized the

  2081. world by

  2082. electricity

  2083. for the

  2084. first time.

  2085. This

  2086. was also

  2087. a world

  2088. when

  2089. power

  2090. waned

  2091. after the

  2092. First World

  2093. War,

  2094. the Russian

  2095. Empire,

  2096. the Ottoman

  2097. Empire,

  2098. the British

  2099. Empire,

  2100. the Austro-Hungarian

  2101. Empire,

  2102. the German

  2103. Empire,

  2104. all

  2105. collapsed,

  2106. lost much

  2107. of their

  2108. power.

  2109. Cities

  2110. and wars

  2111. made this

  2112. a period

  2113. where people

  2114. thought the

  2115. end is

  2116. surely about

  2117. to come.

  2118. world.

  2119. The

  2120. philosophers of

  2121. the age

  2122. who drove

  2123. this period

  2124. were Friedrich

  2125. Nietzsche,

  2126. the German

  2127. philosopher,

  2128. Sigmund

  2129. Freud,

  2130. the Austrian

  2131. side

  2132. analyst,

  2133. Virginia

  2134. Wolfe,

  2135. the novelist,

  2136. and James

  2137. Joyce,

  2138. the Irish

  2139. novelist.

  2140. These are

  2141. people,

  2142. especially

  2143. Nietzsche,

  2144. who were

  2145. saying the

  2146. will to

  2147. power is

  2148. what helps

  2149. human beings

  2150. understand

  2151. themselves,

  2152. understand

  2153. their

  2154. environment,

  2155. helps them

  2156. to achieve

  2157. their goals

  2158. of fulfillment

  2159. in the world.

  2160. Some of

  2161. the more

  2162. evangelical

  2163. outcomes

  2164. of this

  2165. period were

  2166. muscular

  2167. Christianity,

  2168. of which

  2169. Borden and

  2170. C.T.

  2171. Stubb

  2172. were our

  2173. representatives.

  2174. Muscular

  2175. Christianity

  2176. is a

  2177. movement

  2178. that says

  2179. one,

  2180. we need

  2181. to use

  2182. our will

  2183. to assert

  2184. our

  2185. power

  2186. over the

  2187. world.

  2188. The

  2189. muscle

  2190. of

  2191. Christianity

  2192. was also

  2193. a Christian

  2194. movement

  2195. that said

  2196. men are

  2197. no longer

  2198. really men

  2199. because

  2200. they're

  2201. working in

  2202. factories

  2203. and not

  2204. fields.

  2205. So it

  2206. was assumed

  2207. that working

  2208. class men

  2209. in factories

  2210. had lost

  2211. what made

  2212. them men

  2213. using their

  2214. muscles.

  2215. Because we

  2216. see the

  2217. working class

  2218. men in

  2219. factories

  2220. as being

  2221. kind of

  2222. rough and

  2223. ready times.

  2224. Not the

  2225. kind of

  2226. people who

  2227. walked their

  2228. manhood.

  2229. But that

  2230. was the

  2231. assumption.

  2232. So Christians

  2233. had a

  2234. panicking.

  2235. So Christians

  2236. invented

  2237. basketball.

  2238. And Christians

  2239. invented

  2240. volleyball.

  2241. Christians

  2242. invented

  2243. boys

  2244. or

  2245. boy scouts.

  2246. Or Christians

  2247. invented

  2248. how to

  2249. invent the

  2250. Olympic

  2251. Games.

  2252. All these

  2253. things at

  2254. the end

  2255. of the

  2256. 19th

  2257. century were

  2258. responses to

  2259. this fear

  2260. that men

  2261. were losing

  2262. what it

  2263. took to

  2264. their man.

  2265. It's a

  2266. movement called

  2267. muscular

  2268. Christianity.

  2269. Women can

  2270. also be

  2271. muscular

  2272. Christians.

  2273. So for

  2274. example,

  2275. this is the

  2276. period where

  2277. we start

  2278. talking about

  2279. prayer warriors.

  2280. We'd never

  2281. used those

  2282. two words in

  2283. the same

  2284. sentence before.

  2285. And women

  2286. could be

  2287. prayer warriors.

  2288. We're

  2289. described as

  2290. prayer warriors.

  2291. Men were

  2292. described as

  2293. prayer warriors.

  2294. in the

  2295. Salvation Army

  2296. for example,

  2297. in this

  2298. period,

  2299. women take

  2300. on quite a

  2301. significant

  2302. role as

  2303. army officers,

  2304. all part of

  2305. the same

  2306. movement.

  2307. But more

  2308. significantly,

  2309. perhaps,

  2310. this was a

  2311. period in which

  2312. fundamentalism was

  2313. born in its

  2314. modern eyes and

  2315. cost of them

  2316. as well around

  2317. the world.

  2318. These were

  2319. movements

  2320. reacting to the

  2321. culture,

  2322. culture.

  2323. But also

  2324. kind of

  2325. saying we've

  2326. just got to

  2327. be, we've

  2328. got to, through

  2329. our own sense

  2330. of power, assert

  2331. our agency over

  2332. the world around

  2333. us.

  2334. So fundamentalists,

  2335. for example,

  2336. would more and

  2337. more espouse their

  2338. opinions and

  2339. presume that the

  2340. louder they spoke

  2341. or the more

  2342. insistent they were

  2343. with their opinions,

  2344. the more likely

  2345. they were to

  2346. change the

  2347. culture.

  2348. And Pentecostal,

  2349. of course, is

  2350. in many ways a

  2351. therapeutic movement

  2352. where your job is

  2353. to express yourself,

  2354. either through

  2355. using your gifts

  2356. or speaking in

  2357. tongues.

  2358. Both of these are

  2359. ways that you

  2360. would express

  2361. yourself and

  2362. thereby feel

  2363. yourself.

  2364. I think all of

  2365. these three movements

  2366. are still with us

  2367. today.

  2368. It depends which

  2369. church you look at.

  2370. different churches

  2371. have different

  2372. phases where they

  2373. stress one or the

  2374. other.

  2375. So in the dates,

  2376. in the circles,

  2377. I haven't given

  2378. an end date.

  2379. These three movements

  2380. are circling, we're

  2381. still breathing their

  2382. air, they're still

  2383. impacting and

  2384. shaping us quite

  2385. profoundly.

  2386. Though in different

  2387. countries, at

  2388. different moments,

  2389. one or the other

  2390. might take the

  2391. other hand.

  2392. Evangelicalism has

  2393. been quite a

  2394. porous movement.

  2395. We want to reach

  2396. the culture for

  2397. Christ.

  2398. We want to engage

  2399. with the world

  2400. around us.

  2401. Of course we do.

  2402. But the danger, of

  2403. course, in engaging

  2404. with the world around

  2405. us is about

  2406. realising it.

  2407. We're becoming like

  2408. the world around us.

  2409. It might be the

  2410. risk you have to

  2411. take.

  2412. This might be

  2413. exactly the right

  2414. thing to do.

  2415. We want to reach

  2416. the culture, we

  2417. want to get close

  2418. to the culture, we

  2419. want to engage

  2420. with the culture.

  2421. We must.

  2422. But there is a

  2423. danger that we

  2424. then start thinking

  2425. like the culture,

  2426. we start engaging

  2427. with the culture in

  2428. ways that might be

  2429. less happy.

  2430. And so we need

  2431. sessions like this

  2432. morning to remind

  2433. us of the ways

  2434. we've been influenced

  2435. sometimes for our

  2436. world, sometimes

  2437. for our world.

  2438. So let me get

  2439. some more

  2440. questions.

  2441. John?

  2442. Yeah.

  2443. No, Rhys, this is

  2444. so, so, I

  2445. think.

  2446. One of the

  2447. impressions that

  2448. one can easily

  2449. get is that our

  2450. culture deeply

  2451. inflates our

  2452. engagement with

  2453. the gospel, truth,

  2454. reality, all of

  2455. these things.

  2456. And we so

  2457. absorb these

  2458. things of culture

  2459. that, I mean,

  2460. a reaction could

  2461. easily be one of

  2462. the wrong.

  2463. I don't know.

  2464. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  2465. There is a gospel

  2466. truth, there is the

  2467. way it is, there is

  2468. true reality, there

  2469. is the God's eye

  2470. view of things.

  2471. And my goodness,

  2472. this is a disaster

  2473. that we are so

  2474. enculturated.

  2475. What do we do

  2476. to resist that

  2477. sort of permeation

  2478. of culture?

  2479. My goodness,

  2480. is it inevitable

  2481. that we, if in

  2482. the world, we

  2483. are of it?

  2484. And thinking

  2485. that that sort

  2486. of culture

  2487. pervading us

  2488. is exclusively

  2489. a harming thing.

  2490. We need to be

  2491. more God-like

  2492. outside of culture.

  2493. and there's

  2494. certainly a lot

  2495. of this that

  2496. it is much

  2497. of culture

  2498. is a sinful

  2499. inflection

  2500. in some way

  2501. that falls short

  2502. of God's glory.

  2503. But is there

  2504. not another way

  2505. in which there

  2506. is an inevitability

  2507. of culture

  2508. in the fact

  2509. that we are

  2510. creatures?

  2511. It means we're

  2512. in time and space

  2513. and we are in

  2514. space.

  2515. That means we

  2516. are perspectival.

  2517. We are positioned

  2518. during times.

  2519. So in a sense,

  2520. this is simply

  2521. what sort of

  2522. creatureliness

  2523. in part.

  2524. Not exclusively,

  2525. but that's in part.

  2526. And this longing

  2527. for integration,

  2528. is there

  2529. is that

  2530. integration

  2531. going to be

  2532. something that

  2533. will indeed be

  2534. an integration

  2535. of all these

  2536. different cultural

  2537. elements purifying

  2538. but then expressed

  2539. in the new

  2540. heavens and the new

  2541. earth

  2542. where the wealth

  2543. of nations

  2544. come in

  2545. and it is purified

  2546. but there will

  2547. be this final

  2548. integration

  2549. but not in terms

  2550. of a dissolution

  2551. or creatureness

  2552. or an elimination

  2553. of culture

  2554. but an expression

  2555. of culture

  2556. in distinct ways

  2557. that actually

  2558. are horrifying

  2559. in the street

  2560. or a community.

  2561. Could you help us

  2562. to pull some

  2563. of these things

  2564. together because

  2565. it could easily

  2566. be just,

  2567. oh my goodness.

  2568. We so reflect

  2569. our culture

  2570. and that must

  2571. be just an anthem.

  2572. Yes, a question.

  2573. Are you in sense

  2574. at all?

  2575. Yes, let's do it.

  2576. Okay.

  2577. Okay.

  2578. So, you're right,

  2579. John.

  2580. We can't but help

  2581. reflect culture

  2582. around it.

  2583. We're all speaking

  2584. English this morning

  2585. in this room

  2586. which shapes

  2587. the way we think.

  2588. We're living

  2589. in a certain

  2590. time and place.

  2591. We have certain

  2592. assumptions about

  2593. time or

  2594. individual value

  2595. and none of those

  2596. are bad things.

  2597. We can't not

  2598. move into culture.

  2599. We've just got to

  2600. allow ourselves

  2601. to be aware

  2602. and let people

  2603. help us

  2604. think through

  2605. what the culture

  2606. is and does.

  2607. So, that's a

  2608. kind of a humble

  2609. posture, isn't it?

  2610. To get input

  2611. so we can think

  2612. more clearly.

  2613. To resist where

  2614. we will.

  2615. What our questions

  2616. often do we'll see

  2617. in the bottom line

  2618. is create new

  2619. denominations.

  2620. I'm not sure

  2621. that that's the

  2622. answer to every

  2623. cultural moment

  2624. that we need to

  2625. hold on to what's

  2626. precious from

  2627. generations past

  2628. and then allow

  2629. our churches,

  2630. well, the

  2631. Protestant

  2632. work have always

  2633. reformed and not

  2634. to let ourselves

  2635. think that we must

  2636. be continually of

  2637. this shape or

  2638. this size but

  2639. that in time

  2640. we'll adapt,

  2641. we'll cut off

  2642. some limbs,

  2643. we'll grow new

  2644. ones, fresh

  2645. shoots and so

  2646. on.

  2647. I like what

  2648. Jaroslav Pelican

  2649. said, the

  2650. professor of

  2651. church history

  2652. at Yale,

  2653. he said that

  2654. the church is

  2655. unified, it's

  2656. just not

  2657. beautiful.

  2658. Yes.

  2659. Okay.

  2660. We have a

  2661. deep, we have

  2662. deep unity

  2663. in the

  2664. spirit.

  2665. Yeah.

  2666. We're out

  2667. here and we're

  2668. all going

  2669. on the way

  2670. but the

  2671. spirit will

  2672. work out.

  2673. Yes.

  2674. And this

  2675. final column

  2676. of all of

  2677. them,

  2678. the unity

  2679. appearing to

  2680. the spirit

  2681. to bring

  2682. unity where

  2683. there was

  2684. fragmentation

  2685. was a pretty

  2686. big thing.

  2687. It strikes me

  2688. what we're

  2689. doing here

  2690. kind of helps

  2691. alleviate some

  2692. of the dangers

  2693. of being so

  2694. situated in a

  2695. culture that

  2696. we're not aware

  2697. of the culture

  2698. shaping us.

  2699. It's just

  2700. striking, if I

  2701. were to say, I

  2702. only want to

  2703. fellowship with

  2704. Christians from

  2705. New England.

  2706. I don't want to

  2707. fellowship with

  2708. South American

  2709. Christians or

  2710. Christians from

  2711. Australia.

  2712. That'd be

  2713. like...

  2714. That'd be

  2715. abominable, but

  2716. do we want to

  2717. fellowship with

  2718. Christians who

  2719. lived in the

  2720. 1500s and

  2721. lived in the

  2722. 1800s.

  2723. And some of

  2724. that is

  2725. they're challenging

  2726. me and how I'm

  2727. thinking about

  2728. certain things.

  2729. And I love how

  2730. you show how

  2731. some of these

  2732. movements have

  2733. a good...

  2734. There's a good

  2735. impulse in a lot

  2736. of these things.

  2737. And it's not just

  2738. a danger, but

  2739. there are also

  2740. ways that God is

  2741. perhaps refining

  2742. his people to

  2743. be more

  2744. integrated, to

  2745. experience the

  2746. shape, to

  2747. match our

  2748. theology.

  2749. It's not

  2750. fundamentally evil

  2751. to have

  2752. cushions and

  2753. seats in

  2754. church.

  2755. It's not

  2756. fundamentally evil

  2757. to have

  2758. kind of flowers

  2759. in church,

  2760. right?

  2761. When it first

  2762. happened, it

  2763. was completely

  2764. weird.

  2765. You can imagine

  2766. people going to

  2767. the pastor

  2768. saying, we

  2769. must have

  2770. did this.

  2771. That's right.

  2772. I've got to

  2773. go get my

  2774. microphone.