Sermon
Doctrine of Creation
Publisher transcript
Transcript
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All right, so this is day two of our Doctrine of Creation course.
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We are going to start today by talking about, well, the plan for today is to talk about the days of creation, different views of the days of creation, what do we make of this amazing text that we found.
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But before we get into that, I'd like to start by talking a little bit about speech, communication generally.
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If we think about in academic jargon, in speech act theory, they divide communication into three parts.
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You have locution, illocution, and perlocution.
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Okay?
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Locution is the form of the communication.
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The grammar, the syntax, the context, that kind of thing.
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The illocution refers to the meaning that is meant to be conveyed by the communication.
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And the perlocution refers to what the audience actually receives from the communication.
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So before we get, actually, before we get started, do you have the time?
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No.
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No? You don't have the time?
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No.
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Does anybody have the time?
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It's 9.
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9.
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9.
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9.
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10.
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10.
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So when I ask, do you have the time, most of us are looking for our watch.
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Right?
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We're looking for, well, nowadays, we're looking for our phone to try to figure out what the
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time is.
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Because when I ask, do you have the time, most people are not going to answer yes or no.
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No, you did actually answer no.
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That's technically the correct answer.
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Right?
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If you take the actual form of the sentence and say, the correct answer to, do you have
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the time, is either what?
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Yes or no.
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Right?
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If you take the literal meaning.
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But when I ask, do you have the time, you understand that what I'm asking really is, can
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you give me, can you tell me what time it is?
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Right?
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Does that make sense?
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So in this sense, the locution of the sentence is, do you have the time?
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Right?
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Or do you know the time?
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The illocution is, can you tell me what time it is?
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Right?
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And the perlocution is hopefully, oh, I will get the time for you.
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Right?
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Responding to the meaning of what is meant to be conveyed.
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And then this can change, using the exact same phrase, I can change the illocution.
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Right?
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Like, do you know what time it is?
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Oh, do you know what time it is?
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You know, oh, check your watch.
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And like, do you know what time it is?
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Right?
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Again, the correct answer from your kids is not, oh, no.
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No, I don't know what time.
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You know?
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No, the correct answer is, I'm sorry.
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I'm up too late.
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I need to go to bed.
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Right?
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Or, do you know what time it is?
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And it's, you're like, yes, it's time for football.
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Right?
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And so, what's important about the speech act theory here is that the illocution, the meaning
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that is meant to be conveyed, is in part based on the locution, the form of the sentence,
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but also surrounding context.
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Right?
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Other elements of embedded meaning that we pick up when we're doing communication.
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So, why am I talking about this?
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This is actually really important because of biblical inerrancy.
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Right?
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We as Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God.
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And it's therefore inerrant, meaning it's without error.
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All the truth claims it affirms are true.
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That's what the doctrine means.
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Right?
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And so, when we apply our principles of communication that I just talked about, that means that the
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illocution, the meaning that is meant to be conveyed by the text, is always true.
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Okay?
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And so, when we, the goal then of our hermeneutics and exegesis then is to take our perlocution,
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the way that we're receiving the text, the way we understand it, and aligning it with the
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illocution, the way, the meaning that's meant to be conveyed by the text.
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But, as anybody who's spent any time in the church knows, there's about 10 perlocutions,
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per locution, that is out there.
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Okay?
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For every text, there seems to be a good number of ways that the audience has received it.
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And so, this is definitely true.
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So, what, what, I guess my question is, why?
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Right?
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Why?
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I mean, if the, if the locution is there, we're all reading the same text, you know, maybe
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in different translations, right?
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But, we're all reading the same locution.
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Why do we get different perlocutions?
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Yeah?
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Perspective.
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Yeah.
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Maybe there's, yeah, maybe there's different perspectives.
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Maybe there's different philosophical presuppositions that we're bringing to the text that help
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explain why one person gets one perlocution and another person gets another.
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Okay?
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Ultimately, we're all trying to do the same thing, which is get the correct meaning from
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the text.
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So, I submit to you that when it comes to reading Genesis 1, especially the days of creation,
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the biggest philosophical underpinning background that we're bringing to the text that is going
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to color the way we understand it is what I call one of the major tensions in biblical interpretation.
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And, that major tension is how do we balance general and special revelation?
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So, generally, when we talk about revelation, meaning God's self-expression, we, a lot, historically,
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we've broken that up into two major groups.
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Okay?
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Sometimes, it's described as two books.
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We have the book of nature, also called general revelation.
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It's called general revelation because the general public has access to it.
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Everybody, in principle, has access to the book of nature, that revelation of God.
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And, it's properly understood as revelation of God, right?
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Because God creating ex nihilo could have created in multiple different ways.
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Right?
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And, so, the creation that we have is actually a self-revelation of God.
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He has created it this way for a reason or has actually communicated himself in the creation.
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So, that's general revelation.
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The other one, not the book of nature, but the book of scripture.
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The book of scripture.
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We know this one.
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Special revelation.
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It's called special revelation because it has a smaller scope.
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Not everyone in the whole history of the world has received special revelation.
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We know from redemption history there was a small, you know, relatively small group of people
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who were directly communicated to by God.
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And, this is what we treasure as the Bible.
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So, when it comes to understanding nature, understanding the world, how do we balance general revelation,
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that communication of God that we get from nature, and special revelation?
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Now, it might be easy just to say, well, look, special revelation, God's active speech in the Bible,
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boom, clear.
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We just rely on that only.
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However, if we pay attention closely to what scripture says,
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scripture says for us to go out and see God in nature.
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That God has revealed himself in nature.
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And so, if we take special revelation seriously, we also have to take general revelation seriously.
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That's the rub.
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So, now we're all sort of in this position of trying to balance what we learn from nature
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and what we learn from scripture, especially as it involves understanding the natural world.
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So, I've sort of put together a rough spectrum of what I believe are sort of different buckets
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that we can put different people who have weighed general and special revelation differently.
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Okay?
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Okay?
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This first bucket, I'll, I call, and then, okay, so for the record, I'm going to use a lot of names here.
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I'm going to be naming a lot of things.
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Wherever possible, I have used names that the people who support that view use.
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Okay?
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I'm not trying to label people.
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Some of these names, you might think, sound derogatory.
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But, for the people who use the term for themselves, they do not mean it derogatorily, right?
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So, just as reference, try to, try to, like, let's try to remove all of our preconceived notions of this language
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just so we can come to understand this topic.
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Again, not trying to, to color anybody's, anybody's reading.
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Okay?
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Except for the first one here.
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I call them, the first one and the last one.
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You'll see.
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I'm equally harsh.
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So, the first one I call science skeptics.
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And the science skeptic is someone who takes special revelation here, and it's super weighty,
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and general revelation is really not doing anything.
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Okay?
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And this view, basically, is saying they don't believe science or studying nature at all is capable of giving reliable information about the world.
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Okay?
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Okay?
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And so, they, they would say that special revelation is really the only way we can get any knowledge.
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Now, this is actually, isn't a very common view.
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Okay?
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So, but there are people out there who, who would support this, say that we really can't trust anything we see other than what we read in Scripture.
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And the reason I don't think this is, I'm going to say I don't think this is a tenable view for us to hold as Christians,
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and for the reasons I said before.
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It's kind of a, it could be a circular problem.
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Because if you say, special revelation is my only authority, that's the only thing I trust, I can't trust anything I see with my eyes,
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then you're going to have to deal with those passages of Scripture that tell you that you must look out on creation and learn things.
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That we're expected to know things about God from creation.
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Right?
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I just think, I always think of Genesis 1.
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I mean, Genesis 1, Romans 1.
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Right?
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Right?
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God's eternal attributes, namely His divine power, is clearly seen through nature.
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Right?
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So we are expected to be able to learn things about God from nature, and special revelation says so.
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So I don't think science skeptics, or this posture of being super flippant about anything in nature, is something that really we can hold.
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But this is a view, I want to highlight, this is a view, this is a way of balancing it.
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Basically not balancing it all.
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General revelation is not even on the scale.
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Another view we can look at I call concordists, or they call themselves concordists.
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Concordists take special revelation and general revelation, and they weigh it sort of like this.
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Where special revelation is the driver's seat, but general revelation is bringing something to the table in terms of what we can learn about the world.
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Okay?
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Basically, if you imagine, the Bible sets the table.
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The Bible is saying, this is what we see in nature.
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And then the concordists would then look at the world and say, I need to take this information I'm getting from the world and fit it in to this table that's set by Scripture.
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So they would emphasize special revelation, but they also have a high view of general revelation.
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And in general, these Christians that believe that the Bible is intending to communicate scientific information at some level,
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and therefore it's our job to fit what we learn from nature into this biblical framework.
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Okay.
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Concordists.
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Boom.
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Right smack dab in the middle, we have what I call the harmonists.
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Again, not all of these terms are my terms.
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But a harmonist, and a harmonist would say they believe that science and Scripture interpretation done correctly will produce a coherent worldview.
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Saying stuff like, all truth is God's truth.
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Right?
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Anything we learn correctly from nature and anything we learn correctly from Scripture are going to harmonize.
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Right?
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This is why we call them harmonists.
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So they, in this view, they don't really privilege special or general revelation when it comes to looking out at nature.
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Now, I want to be clear, every Orthodox Christian believes that special revelation is the highest authority.
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But we're talking specifically about how we understand the natural world.
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Right?
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And in understanding the natural world, a harmonist would say, we take the observational data that we have, and we take the scriptural data that we have, and we take them on their own terms.
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And then, if there's any apparent conflict there, we try to smooth those over.
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Either by re-appropriate, re-understanding our interpretation of science, or re-interpreting Scripture, whichever one is more appropriate given the apparent conflict.
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That's the harmonists.
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Next, as you might imagine, the scale tips this way.
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We call these accommodationists.
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Accommodationists say that Scripture interpretation done correctly will fit into the scientific consensus in detail.
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So this is sort of the flip side of the concordance, where accommodationists would say, scientific knowledge is really setting the table.
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It's really setting the parameters.
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And when we correctly understand Scripture, it should fit in to what we see in the scientific data.
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Okay?
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They'll often de-emphasize the scientific information expressed in Scripture, and focus more on sort of the spiritual and moral import of the Bible.
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Does that make sense?
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Okay.
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And then now we're going to do the last group, which is general revelation way down here, super way down, and special revelations up there, not really doing much of anything.
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I call these biblical skeptics.
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They don't believe that Scripture is capable of providing reliable information about the world at all.
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Basically, the Bible is only there to convey moral truths, and shouldn't really be relied on to convey anything what we would call scientific information at all.
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Okay?
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That general revelation, science, observation, whatever, those are really the only reliable ways to get information.
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That's about the natural world.
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Okay?
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And equally, I don't think this is something that we can hold as Orthodox Christians.
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Okay?
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I don't really think the Bible will accept this parameter of saying, yes, I'm only here to give you moral truths.
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It sounds a lot like I'm giving you history sometimes.
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It sounds a lot like I'm trying to tell you something that actually happened.
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But, you know, don't worry about that.
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Like, no, no, no.
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I don't think Scripture is going to, and I think we should accept Scripture being demoted into that level.
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Okay?
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I think we should allow Scripture to speak on the areas that it speaks on.
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Right?
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And so, equally, I think a biblical skeptic, a scientific skeptic, these two poles are things we want to avoid.
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So we're all, I think most of us as Orthodox Christians find ourselves somewhere in between.
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Somewhere in between.
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And you can take any of these different categories that I've made, and you can find a spectrum within the spectrum.
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And so it all gets very complicated.
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But you can imagine, as a accommodationist or a concordist come to the text of Genesis 1,
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they may be expecting to see different things.
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They may be asking different questions of the text, and therefore getting different answers.
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Does that make sense?
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So I think this is the philosophical background that all of us are bringing to our reading of Genesis.
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And I think this is mostly the biggest driver of the different perlocutions that we bring to the same text.
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Okay?
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All right.
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With that being said, why don't we actually go to the text?
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Anybody have their Bible open?
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We're just going to read all of Genesis 1 to 2-3.
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Who feels confident enough to read a large portion of Scripture?
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Richard, you want to go?
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Go for it.
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In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
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Now the earth was formless and empty.
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Darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
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And God said, let there be light.
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And there was light.
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God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
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God called the light day, and the darkness he called night.
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And there was evening, and there was morning, the first day.
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And God said, let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.
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So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it.
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And it was so.
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God called the vault sky.
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And there was evening, and there was morning, the second day.
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And God said, let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.
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And it was so.
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God called the dry ground land, and the gathered waters he called seas.
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And God saw that it was good.
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Then God said, let the land produce vegetation, seed-bearing plants and trees,
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on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.
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And it was so.
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The land produced vegetation, plants bearing seed according to their kinds,
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and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds.
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And God saw that it was good.
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And there was evening, and there was morning, the third day.
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And God said, let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night,
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and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times and days and years,
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and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.
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And it was so.
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And God made two great lights, the greater light to govern the day,
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and the lesser light to govern the night.
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He also made the stars.
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God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on earth,
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to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.
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And God saw that it was good.
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And there was evening, and there was morning, the fourth day.
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And God said, let the water team with living creatures,
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and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.
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So God created the great creatures of the sea,
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and every living thing with which the water teems,
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and that moves about in it according to their kinds.
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And every winged bird according to its kind.
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And God saw that it was good.
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God blessed them and said,
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be fruitful and increase in number,
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and fill the water in the seas,
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and let the birds increase on the earth.
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And there was evening, and there was morning, the fifth day.
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And God said,
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let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds,
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the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground,
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and the wild animals,
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each according to its kind.
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And it was so.
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God made the wild animals according to their kinds,
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the livestock according to their kinds,
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and all the creatures that move along the ground
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according to their kinds.
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And God saw that it was good.
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Then God said,
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let us make mankind in our image,
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in our likeness,
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so that they may rule over the fish in the sea,
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and the birds in the sky,
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over the livestock,
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and all the wild animals,
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and over all the creatures that move along the ground.
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So God created mankind in his own image.
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In the image of God he created them,
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male and female he created them.
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God blessed them and said to them,
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be fruitful and increase in number.
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Fill the earth and subdue it.
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Rule over the fish in the sea,
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and the birds in the sky,
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and over every living creature that moves on the ground.
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Then God said,
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I give you every seed-bearing plant
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on the face of the whole earth,
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and every tree that has fruit with seed in it.
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They will be yours for food.
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And to all the beasts of the earth,
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and all the birds in the sky,
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and all the creatures that move along the ground,
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everything that has the breath of life in it,
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I give every green plant for food.
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And it was so.
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God saw all that he had made,
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and it was very good.
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And there was evening,
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and there was morning,
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the sixth day.
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Thus the heavens and the earth were completed
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in all their vast array.
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By the seventh day,
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God had finished the work he had been doing.
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So on the seventh day,
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he rested from all his work.
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Then God blessed the seventh day
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and made it holy.
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Because on it,
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he rested from all the work of creating
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that he had done.
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All right.
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Wow.
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There's something special about reading Scripture
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when it's snowing outside.
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I don't know.
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Isn't that just beautiful?
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It never gets old.
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But let's step back.
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Let's zoom out a little bit
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and get kind of a bird's eye view
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of this whole creation account that we have.
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As you can see,
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there's sort of a pattern,
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a lot of Christians over time
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have seen sort of a pattern
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in the creation days.
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You have two sets of three.
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You have a set of forming,
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forming spaces,
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and then you have a set of filling,
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the filling of those spaces.
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So you can imagine,
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day one,
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we have the creation of light and dark,
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and in day four,
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we have the creation of the luminaries.
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Those things that are going to be shining
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in the light and the dark.
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We're creating,
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we're shining, basically,
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with the light and the dark.
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Day two,
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we have the separation of the water from the sky.
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Day five,
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we have the creation of sea creatures
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and flying creatures.
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Right?
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Day three,
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we have the creation of the land,
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and then a special creation event
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of vegetation on the land.
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Day six,
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we have the creation of the land animals,
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and a special creation event
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of human beings.
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Each one of these six days
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ends with the same phrase,
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and there was evening,
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and there was morning,
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X day.
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Technically,
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there is no definite article.
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Right?
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So we say the first day,
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but it's technically like first day.
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Day one.
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Day two.
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A lot of,
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a lot,
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some people make a big deal out of that.
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I'm,
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take it for what you will.
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But,
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day seven
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does not have that phrase.
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Day seven is a special day.
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Day seven is where God rests
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from all his creation.
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It has no parallel
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in the forming
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or in the filling.
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It's its own thing.
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It's the capstone,
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and there is no evening,
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and there is no morning.
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Everything is very good.
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Good,
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good,
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good,
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good,
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good,
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very good.
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Very good.
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That's the,
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that's the data.
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So,
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there it is.
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That's the low,
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that's the locution,
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everybody.
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We all have the same thing.
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We're all working off
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of the same thing,
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and we are,
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hopefully,
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we're all working
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and striving together
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to get at
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the correct illocution.
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What are we supposed to be receiving
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in this text?
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Okay?
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But,
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there are quite a few
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different per locutions,
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and you can imagine
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if we take our philosophical
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predispositions in mind,
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those different ways
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of weighing general
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and special revelation,
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you can imagine
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we come to this text
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with different questions.
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So,
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if we imagine
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we have a very heavy
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view of special revelation
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in terms of what it's supposed
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to explain about nature,
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we might be asking questions
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of like,
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how did God create?
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In what manner?
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What was the mechanism
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by which God created things?
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And,
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expecting to receive
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that information in the text.
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Whereas,
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maybe if you go
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the other direction,
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weighing general revelation
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more,
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and special revelation
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at a different level,
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you might be saying,
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okay,
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what is it that the Bible
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is trying to convey
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in its own context
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to us?
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Were the original audience
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asking those kinds
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of questions?
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Were they asking questions
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of like,
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how exactly
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did God create?
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So,
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what are the different views?
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Well,
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luckily for us,
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there's only like 17.
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17.
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No,
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I'm joking.
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There's not 17.
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By my count,
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there is
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only 12.
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So,
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we're going to go
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through these.
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You know,
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I have taught this class
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before,
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a few years back,
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and I had,
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basically I had an overview
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of all the modern views
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of Genesis 1.
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and I spread them out
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and I was very,
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still,
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I'm going to present
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those today too.
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So,
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I haven't given up
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on those.
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But I've been really
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interested in church history
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and I've been wanting to,
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so I wanted to go through
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the ones I had made before
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and I wanted to slot in
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different examples
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of church fathers
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who held the different views.
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And,
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as it turns out,
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I failed
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spectacularly
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because,
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as is often the case,
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the patristic views
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are very different
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than the ones we have today.
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They're harder
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to categorize
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in the way,
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in the common
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understandings we have
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in today.
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So,
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I decided to make
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a whole new section
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starting just with
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what I call
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the patristic views
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of early Genesis.
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And they generally
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fall into three
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different categories.
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The first one
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is
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the world weak
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hypothesis.
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World weak.
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So,
-
what this view
-
holds is that
-
the creation account
-
is actually
-
a prophecy,
-
a forward-looking
-
prophecy
-
of six
-
eras
-
of human history.
-
Six,
-
each one of the days
-
is a thousand years.
-
The understanding here
-
is that
-
with the Lord,
-
a thousand years
-
is like a day
-
and a day
-
is like a thousand years.
-
And the patristics
-
are like,
-
well,
-
good.
-
It says here,
-
day,
-
therefore a thousand years.
-
Right?
-
Equals.
-
And so,
-
they said,
-
oh,
-
there's six thousand years
-
of human history
-
being prophesied
-
in this early
-
interpretation.
-
With the seventh day
-
representing the
-
eschatological
-
millennium
-
of Jesus.
-
Of Jesus'
-
reign on earth
-
as we see in Revelation.
-
The millennium,
-
the millennial reign.
-
And then some fathers
-
actually talking about
-
the future eighth day,
-
which is the
-
recreation of the
-
heavens and the earth.
-
Right?
-
As far as I know,
-
there is
-
no one today
-
who holds this view.
-
Okay?
-
But this was actually
-
a really,
-
really common
-
popular view
-
in the early church.
-
People like,
-
yeah.
-
Richard?
-
This view is
-
a lot more popular
-
than you might suspect.
-
Even today.
-
Even today.
-
All right.
-
All right.
-
I'm willing to be wrong
-
about this.
-
You can easily go to
-
YouTube or the internet
-
in general
-
and you can find
-
this view
-
espoused by
-
living,
-
breathing human beings.
-
Wow.
-
Well,
-
there you go.
-
I mean,
-
look,
-
I was actually going
-
to point out
-
that as often
-
as strange
-
as this view sounds,
-
this has actually
-
had a long shelf life.
-
church fathers
-
like Irenaeus,
-
Hippolytus,
-
Cyprian,
-
John of Damascus,
-
and Bede
-
all held
-
some version
-
of this view.
-
And through people
-
like John of Damascus
-
and Bede,
-
this continued on
-
through the Middle Ages
-
where even people
-
like Anselm
-
and Thomas of Aquinas,
-
they would
-
reference people
-
holding this view.
-
Okay?
-
So,
-
one patristic view
-
is the world
-
weak hypothesis.
-
Another view,
-
which is a little bit
-
more
-
maybe familiar
-
to some of us,
-
is what I will call
-
Alexandrian allegory.
-
Alexandrian allegory
-
is the view
-
of a lot of
-
church fathers
-
in North Africa
-
who believed that
-
based on what they
-
understood about
-
the natural world
-
and based on
-
interesting facts,
-
interesting facets
-
of the Genesis
-
narrative itself,
-
believed that
-
actually
-
God created
-
instantaneously.
-
Everything.
-
All at once.
-
Boom.
-
Okay?
-
There was no time,
-
there was no sequence
-
in reality
-
in the actual
-
act of creation
-
and that the
-
creation narrative
-
we get here
-
is either an allegory
-
talking about
-
moral and spiritual
-
truths
-
or the different
-
natures of the
-
created world
-
or it's
-
an accommodation
-
to human
-
understanding
-
being where
-
it's really hard
-
for us to understand
-
God creating
-
everything in an instant.
-
So,
-
for instance,
-
church fathers
-
like Clement
-
and Origen
-
and Athanasius
-
all held
-
something like
-
this instantaneous
-
creation
-
with an allegorical
-
understanding of
-
Genesis 1.
-
Famously,
-
Augustine
-
held this view
-
to a certain extent
-
and he believed
-
that actually
-
the days of creation
-
were not days of
-
God creating
-
the physical world
-
were actually
-
were days
-
were moments
-
by which
-
the angelic
-
host
-
were being
-
exposed
-
to
-
what was
-
about to
-
happen
-
in creation.
-
Right?
-
Have anybody
-
ever read
-
the Silmarillion?
-
Anybody ever
-
read the Silmarillion?
-
Well,
-
okay,
-
two people.
-
So,
-
it's hard to get
-
through,
-
but if you
-
started the Silmarillion
-
you probably
-
read this part
-
because it's
-
literally the
-
first two pages.
-
in the Silmarillion
-
you have
-
this is the
-
deep cut
-
of J.R.
-
Tolkien
-
his creation
-
myth
-
of his
-
Middle Earth.
-
And Iluvatar
-
is singing
-
this is the
-
God
-
this is the
-
one God
-
of the
-
Middle Earth
-
he's singing
-
a song
-
and his
-
different
-
angelic hosts
-
are harmonizing
-
with him
-
and Melkor
-
the devil
-
character
-
he's doing
-
disharmony
-
and Iluvatar
-
keeps on
-
bringing his
-
disharmony
-
back into
-
harmony
-
and Melkor
-
is like
-
ah man
-
you know
-
and then
-
boom
-
it's done
-
and what
-
Iluvatar
-
does
-
is he
-
shows
-
the angels
-
like
-
what you
-
just
-
sang
-
is the
-
story
-
of this
-
world
-
is the
-
story
-
of this
-
world
-
and he's
-
showing
-
them
-
human
-
history
-
or
-
the
-
history
-
of
-
Middle
-
Earth
-
right
-
and I
-
think
-
this is
-
Tolkien
-
hearkening
-
back to
-
this view
-
of Augustine
-
that in
-
creation
-
God
-
is
-
sorry
-
I should
-
say
-
then Iluvatar
-
just goes
-
boom
-
there it is
-
the world
-
is created
-
right
-
and then
-
those
-
angelic hosts
-
can enter
-
the creation
-
it gets
-
very confusing
-
after that
-
but I
-
think this
-
is hearkening
-
back to
-
that
-
where
-
God
-
is
-
presaging
-
what is
-
about to
-
occur
-
to the
-
angelic
-
host
-
and then
-
the actual
-
act of
-
creation
-
is
-
instantaneous
-
so that's
-
Alexandrian
-
allegory
-
we have
-
another view
-
called
-
Cappadocian
-
literalism
-
this is
-
closer to
-
what we
-
are familiar
-
with today
-
these
-
fathers
-
centered around
-
Antioch
-
took a more
-
straightforward
-
reading of
-
the text
-
they said
-
that
-
basically
-
it is
-
what it
-
is
-
these
-
are
-
24
-
hour
-
days
-
right
-
however
-
this is
-
different
-
than
-
modern
-
views
-
of
-
24
-
hour
-
day
-
because
-
they
-
believed
-
that
-
this
-
creation
-
as we
-
receive
-
it
-
now
-
is
-
the
-
creation
-
that
-
God
-
made
-
in
-
those
-
24
-
hour
-
days
-
so
-
including
-
predation
-
including
-
animal
-
death
-
all of
-
these
-
things
-
are
-
facets
-
of
-
God's
-
good
-
creation
-
which
-
distinguishes
-
it
-
from
-
modern
-
creation
-
views
-
of
-
24
-
hour
-
days
-
and
-
they
-
also
-
engage
-
in a lot
-
of
-
allegory
-
in those
-
first
-
chapters
-
too
-
so
-
they
-
wouldn't
-
have
-
taken
-
everything
-
as straight
-
journalistic
-
history
-
but it
-
was closer
-
to
-
some of
-
the more
-
common
-
views
-
today
-
so
-
those
-
are
-
the
-
patristic
-
views
-
now
-
actually
-
as
-
time
-
went
-
on
-
in the
-
west
-
there
-
was
-
an
-
attempt
-
to
-
merge
-
these
-
two
-
views
-
together
-
you had
-
the idea
-
of
-
instantaneous
-
creation
-
followed
-
by
-
a
-
sequence
-
of
-
forming
-
that
-
kind
-
of
-
emerged
-
and if
-
you
-
think
-
about
-
it
-
we
-
all
-
sort
-
of
-
hold
-
something
-
like
-
this
-
view
-
today
-
right
-
we
-
all
-
believe
-
that
-
at
-
some
-
point
-
God
-
created
-
everything
-
and
-
we
-
all
-
believe
-
in
-
some
-
sort
-
of
-
sequence
-
of
-
forming
-
of
-
the
-
natural
-
world
-
whether
-
we
-
believe
-
that
-
the
-
sequence
-
of
-
forming
-
is
-
24
-
hour
-
literal
-
days
-
solar
-
days
-
of
-
the
-
forming
-
and
-
special
-
creation
-
of
-
every
-
single
-
thing
-
or
-
we
-
believe
-
in
-
some
-
sort
-
of
-
development
-
we
-
all
-
sort
-
of
-
in
-
the
-
west
-
believe
-
in
-
this
-
kind
-
of
-
sequence
-
instantaneous
-
sequence
-
!
-
proponents
-
of
-
this
-
Cappadocian
-
view
-
would be
-
Basil
-
of
-
Caesarea
-
famously
-
he has
-
this book
-
called
-
the
-
Hexamarin
-
which is
-
an interpretation
-
of the
-
six days
-
of creation
-
Gregory
-
of Nyssa
-
and Gregory
-
of
-
Nazianzus
-
okay
-
that's
-
the
-
patristic
-
views
-
let's
-
jump
-
into
-
the
-
modern
-
views
-
we
-
have
-
young
-
earth
-
creationism
-
I'm
-
sure
-
a lot
-
of
-
us
-
are
-
familiar
-
with
-
this
-
this
-
is
-
basically
-
taking
-
Genesis
-
as
-
a
-
face
-
face
-
value
-
literal
-
journalistic
-
history
-
of
-
what's
-
going
-
on
-
and
-
it's
-
meant
-
to
-
be
-
understood
-
as
-
24
-
hour
-
solar
-
days
-
that
-
creation
-
is
-
occurring
-
I'm
-
sure
-
a lot
-
of
-
us
-
are
-
familiar
-
with
-
this
-
view
-
they
-
also
-
believe
-
a
-
facet
-
of
-
young
-
creationism
-
is
-
they
-
believe
-
that
-
science
-
done
-
correctly
-
will
-
reveal
-
that
-
the
-
earth
-
and
-
the
-
universe
-
are
-
actually
-
6,000
-
to
-
10,000
-
years
-
old
-
right
-
and
-
they
-
get
-
that
-
number
-
6,000
-
to
-
10,000
-
by
-
taking
-
the
-
Genesis
-
narrative
-
right
-
Adam
-
was born
-
in the
-
sixth
-
day
-
and
-
then
-
we
-
have
-
a
-
genealogy
-
of
-
Adam
-
later
-
in
-
Genesis
-
a
-
genealogy
-
of
-
Adam's
-
descendants
-
how long
-
they lived
-
etc
-
and
-
actually
-
a man
-
named
-
Usher
-
I'm forgetting
-
his first
-
name
-
James
-
James
-
Usher
-
that's
-
right
-
he
-
was the
-
first
-
one
-
in
-
church
-
history
-
to
-
really
-
line
-
all of
-
these
-
genealogies
-
up
-
I think
-
this was
-
in the
-
16th
-
century
-
line
-
all
-
these
-
genealogies
-
up
-
and
-
count
-
out
-
the
-
time
-
and
-
he
-
got
-
to
-
a
-
number
-
like
-
6,000
-
to
-
10,000
-
depending
-
on
-
how you
-
interpret
-
the
-
genealogies
-
so that's
-
young earth
-
creationism
-
there's another
-
little basket
-
of views
-
that I like
-
to call
-
ancient
-
science
-
interpretations
-
okay
-
what hold
-
these views
-
together
-
is that
-
they all
-
share a
-
common belief
-
that the
-
Genesis
-
account
-
is intending
-
to convey
-
not just
-
what God
-
did
-
but how
-
he created
-
and that
-
understanding
-
it correctly
-
these
-
understanding
-
the Genesis
-
narrative
-
correctly
-
it will
-
fit
-
with
-
modern
-
science
-
okay
-
so one
-
of these
-
views
-
is
-
the
-
appearance
-
of age
-
view
-
where it's
-
basically
-
the same
-
as young
-
earth
-
creationism
-
except
-
they don't
-
believe
-
that science
-
done correctly
-
will show
-
that the
-
earth is
-
young
-
they believe
-
that the
-
earth was
-
created in
-
24 hour
-
solar days
-
but it was
-
created mature
-
much like
-
we believe
-
Adam was
-
created fully
-
formed
-
the earth
-
and the
-
universe
-
were created
-
fully formed
-
so it has
-
the appearance
-
of age
-
but not
-
actually
-
a long
-
period of
-
time
-
so they
-
would believe
-
if you go
-
out
-
scientifically
-
and look
-
at rocks
-
they're going
-
to look
-
really old
-
but in fact
-
they actually
-
are not
-
that old
-
okay
-
so that
-
is closer
-
to young
-
earth
-
creationism
-
where they're
-
saying we
-
can explain
-
the appearance
-
of age
-
here based
-
on this
-
understanding
-
of science
-
but they
-
would say
-
now with
-
that in
-
mind you
-
can actually
-
see that
-
it's really
-
young
-
yeah
-
age
-
yeah
-
yeah
-
so the
-
appearance
-
of age
-
and young
-
earth
-
creationism
-
kind of
-
there's a
-
little bit
-
of melding
-
in between
-
there
-
where they
-
can go
-
back and
-
forth
-
another one
-
of these
-
ancient
-
science
-
interpretations
-
is the
-
gap theory
-
so this
-
believes
-
that the
-
days of
-
creation
-
are 24
-
hours
-
solar days
-
but
-
between
-
Genesis 1
-
1 and 2
-
and Genesis
-
1 3
-
we have
-
a long
-
we have
-
eons of
-
history
-
that occur
-
right
-
God created
-
the universe
-
and then
-
actually was
-
the fall
-
of Satan
-
and the
-
angels
-
that brought
-
the earth
-
into formlessness
-
and voidness
-
thereby God
-
recreating the
-
world in
-
six 24
-
hour solar
-
days in the
-
way that we
-
experience it
-
now and so
-
any earlier
-
age of
-
you know
-
any dinosaurs
-
or anything
-
like that
-
that we
-
find is
-
evidence of
-
this earlier
-
eons of
-
history
-
or even
-
age of the
-
universe
-
of the
-
earth
-
this is all
-
contained in
-
that gap
-
so this was
-
actually a pretty
-
popular view
-
in the early
-
20th century
-
it's kind of
-
gone out of
-
favor because
-
a lot of
-
there's a lot
-
of grammatical
-
arguments against
-
it
-
that there
-
really isn't
-
a gap
-
understood
-
in the
-
text
-
but that
-
was a very
-
common view
-
and there
-
are people
-
who still
-
defend it
-
today
-
and then
-
the last
-
of our
-
ancient science
-
interpretations
-
is the
-
day age
-
theory
-
so
-
the
-
Genesis
-
account is
-
describing how
-
God created
-
but they
-
understand the
-
word day
-
not to mean
-
24 hour
-
solar day
-
but to mean
-
day in the
-
more generic
-
term like
-
in the day
-
of the Lord
-
right
-
in the day
-
of the Lord
-
is not 24 hour
-
period right
-
it's just this
-
period of time
-
and they would
-
say okay
-
we can understand
-
the word day
-
to mean a period
-
of time
-
and so each
-
one of the
-
creation days
-
is a long
-
age
-
but
-
the account
-
of what goes
-
on in that
-
age is basically
-
how it's described
-
so that is
-
sort of a
-
very common
-
view of
-
old earth
-
creationism
-
okay
-
alright
-
those are the
-
ancient science
-
interpretations
-
those ones are
-
trying to take
-
the biblical text
-
on how
-
the
-
take the
-
biblical text
-
and learn how
-
creation happened
-
and there's
-
different ways of
-
fitting that with
-
modern science
-
we now have
-
creation poem
-
interpretations
-
these
-
say
-
that what
-
brings these
-
together is that
-
there are
-
they would believe
-
that there are
-
figures of speech
-
literary conventions
-
in the text
-
and that
-
the text is not
-
trying to explain
-
to us how
-
God created
-
as much as
-
what God did
-
when he created
-
and why
-
okay
-
so views like
-
this
-
views
-
under this category
-
would be
-
stuff like
-
the analogical
-
day theory
-
this view says
-
that the Bible
-
is actually using
-
analogical language
-
to describe God's
-
creative activity
-
as if he was a
-
craftsman in his
-
regular work week
-
right
-
the crowd
-
you know
-
God the craftsman
-
wakes up
-
day one he works
-
evening and morning
-
day two he works
-
evening and morning
-
and then day seven
-
is his sabbath rest
-
right
-
so just kind of like
-
the
-
the regular work week
-
of a person
-
so it's using an
-
analogy
-
so the days
-
in this situation
-
would be 24 hour
-
solar days
-
but they're
-
not meant to be
-
taken literally
-
they're meant to be
-
taken as an
-
analogy of
-
God's activity
-
the framework
-
view
-
is another one
-
of these
-
creation poem
-
interpretations
-
they see that
-
forming and
-
filling pattern
-
that we see in
-
Genesis 1
-
and then we say
-
oh
-
this framework
-
then
-
is indicating
-
to us
-
there's a
-
disc chronology
-
here
-
we're not
-
supposed to be
-
meant to be
-
taking these
-
days
-
sequence literally
-
and so
-
that gives
-
them a lot
-
of play
-
in how
-
God created
-
they're saying
-
this is telling
-
us what
-
but the
-
sequence isn't
-
meant to be
-
taken as a
-
history
-
it's meant to
-
be taken as
-
a poem
-
or a
-
literary convention
-
that's supposed
-
to be conveying
-
what God
-
did but
-
not exactly
-
how he did
-
it
-
finally
-
we have our
-
religion only
-
interpretations
-
these views
-
they're connected
-
by the belief
-
that the
-
Genesis narrative
-
is not meant
-
to be understood
-
what God's
-
creating
-
or
-
what God
-
did in
-
creation
-
or even
-
how
-
not how
-
not even
-
what
-
but just
-
who
-
created
-
and why
-
so you're
-
not really
-
meant to
-
take any
-
knowledge about
-
the natural
-
world from
-
this first
-
chapter
-
you're meant
-
to learn
-
about God
-
and so
-
they'll point
-
to
-
for instance
-
in the
-
proclamation
-
day view
-
they'll say
-
that this
-
is God's
-
proclamation
-
of his
-
creative
-
act
-
in the
-
throne
-
room
-
this is
-
him
-
describing
-
how
-
how
-
you know
-
a view
-
of creation
-
but in reality
-
it happened
-
in a completely
-
different way
-
right
-
sort of
-
God saying
-
this
-
sort of like
-
Augustine's view
-
in a way
-
this is what
-
is going to
-
happen
-
and then
-
creation happens
-
but not in
-
that way
-
okay
-
yeah
-
kind of like
-
a decree
-
another one
-
is the
-
kingdom
-
temple
-
view
-
where it
-
says
-
this isn't
-
describing
-
God's
-
creation
-
at all
-
it's
-
describing
-
God's
-
naming
-
of the
-
creation
-
and their
-
purposes
-
and functions
-
right
-
I'm
-
separating
-
light
-
from
-
darkness
-
light
-
is going
-
to be
-
called
-
light
-
darkness
-
to be
-
called
-
dark
-
the
-
luminaries
-
are going
-
to be
-
meant
-
for
-
signs
-
and
-
seasons
-
animals
-
this is
-
your
-
role
-
fish
-
this is
-
your
-
role
-
you see
-
how
-
that
-
we
-
understand
-
in the
-
ancient
-
naming
-
is understood
-
as an
-
act of
-
authority
-
and so
-
here
-
in this
-
view
-
God
-
is
-
inaugurating
-
his
-
kingdom
-
his
-
temple
-
of
-
creation
-
by
-
naming
-
everything
-
and putting
-
everything
-
where it
-
should
-
be
-
okay
-
and then
-
finally
-
we have
-
the
-
alternative
-
cosmology
-
view
-
this
-
view
-
says
-
the
-
Moses
-
is actually
-
borrowing
-
elements
-
from
-
contemporary
-
ancient
-
near eastern
-
creation
-
accounts
-
to show
-
the
-
differences
-
of the
-
God of
-
the
-
Bible
-
and
-
why
-
God
-
created
-
so
-
instead
-
of
-
thinking
-
about
-
the
-
what
-
and the
-
how
-
of
-
God
-
creating
-
we're
-
supposed
-
to be
-
looking at
-
how
-
God
-
has no
-
equal
-
God
-
is not
-
in conflict
-
with anybody
-
God
-
is
-
God
-
is creating
-
humans
-
with dignity
-
everything
-
is good
-
those kinds
-
of things
-
right
-
okay
-
that was a
-
lot
-
right
-
that was a
-
lot
-
lot of
-
different
-
perlocutions
-
with the
-
same
-
locution
-
right
-
so
-
what do
-
we do
-
here
-
what
-
do
-
we
-
make
-
of
-
this
-
you
-
can
-
imagine
-
if you
-
come
-
to
-
the
-
view
-
you
-
come
-
to
-
the
-
text
-
with
-
a
-
more
-
of a
-
concordist
-
way of
-
thinking
-
about
-
what
-
the
-
scripture
-
is
-
meant
-
to be
-
conveying
-
you
-
would
-
expect
-
to
-
take
-
maybe
-
more
-
one
-
of
-
these
-
a
-
young
-
earth
-
creationist
-
or
-
maybe
-
an
-
ancient
-
science
-
interpretation
-
where
-
we're
-
trying
-
to
-
glean
-
from
-
the
-
text
-
what
-
it
-
is
-
God
-
actually
-
did
-
in
-
creation
-
right
-
his
-
method
-
his
-
mechanism
-
as
-
opposed
-
to
-
maybe
-
if
-
you
-
take
-
an
-
accommodationist
-
view
-
maybe
-
the
-
kingdom
-
temple
-
view
-
or the
-
alternative
-
cosmology
-
view
-
would make
-
more sense
-
to you
-
because
-
you
-
wouldn't
-
really
-
be
-
looking
-
for
-
Genesis
-
1
-
to
-
be
-
giving
-
you
-
that
-
how
-
and
-
what
-
information
-
does that
-
make sense
-
yeah
-
the
-
problem
-
is that
-
if you
-
take
-
any
-
of
-
those
-
views
-
you
-
just
-
mentioned
-
and you
-
try to
-
make it
-
dogma
-
I believe
-
what
-
Herman
-
Bobbing
-
said
-
the
-
days
-
of
-
creation
-
were
-
God's
-
working
-
days
-
I
-
wasn't
-
there
-
I
-
can
-
imagine
-
all
-
kinds
-
of
-
scenarios
-
or
-
this
-
or
-
that
-
was
-
happening
-
but
-
I
-
wasn't
-
there
-
yeah
-
and
-
it's
-
really
-
not
-
salvific
-
knowledge
-
it's
-
just
-
telling
-
me
-
that
-
God
-
is
-
the
-
creator
-
and
-
I'm
-
this
-
creature
-
and
-
it's
-
not
-
really
-
salvific
-
I
-
shouldn't
-
make
-
it
-
dogma
-
I
-
actually
-
was
-
going
-
to
-
mention
-
Herman
-
Bobbing
-
because
-
I
-
really
-
no
-
it's
-
great
-
Herman
-
Bobbing
-
I
-
think
-
came
-
to
-
a
-
really
-
wise
-
conclusion
-
which
-
is
-
to
-
say
-
we
-
read
-
the
-
text
-
these
-
are
-
working
-
days
-
what
-
does
-
that
-
mean
-
different
-
Christians
-
are
-
going
-
to
-
disagree
-
we
-
can
-
all
-
agree
-
on
-
that
-
God
-
is
-
the
-
creator
-
that
-
God
-
created
-
for
-
these
-
reasons
-
sort
-
of
-
sort
-
of
-
the
-
common
-
denominator
-
of all
-
these
-
different
-
views
-
is
-
God
-
being
-
creator
-
creation
-
being
-
good
-
it
-
being
-
made
-
without
-
conflict
-
etc
-
right
-
but
-
there
-
is
-
I
-
think
-
room
-
for
-
humility
-
and
-
charity
-
here
-
okay
-
really
-
really smart
-
people
-
over the
-
whole
-
history
-
of
-
the
-
Christian
-
tradition
-
have
-
disagreed
-
on this
-
okay
-
Thomas Aquinas
-
held a
-
sort of
-
similar view
-
to Herman
-
Bavinck
-
B.B. Warfield
-
was a gap
-
theorist
-
okay
-
there were a
-
lot of
-
old earth
-
creationists
-
in the
-
fundamentals book
-
at the start
-
of the
-
fundamentalist
-
movement
-
there are a
-
lot of
-
wise
-
and
-
virtuous
-
young earth
-
creationists
-
out there
-
so I
-
think
-
we want
-
to come
-
to this
-
with
-
charity
-
so like
-
for instance
-
I
-
take
-
my
-
philosophical
-
disposition
-
is I
-
tend to be
-
kind of a
-
harmonist
-
okay
-
I
-
and of
-
course
-
I make
-
the spectrum
-
and of
-
course
-
my view
-
is in
-
the middle
-
of the
-
spectrum
-
of course
-
right
-
but
-
yeah
-
I tend
-
to come
-
at this
-
in a
-
way
-
where I
-
say
-
okay
-
I'm
-
going to
-
look at
-
the world
-
general revelation
-
on its
-
terms
-
and I'm
-
going to
-
look at
-
special revelation
-
God's word
-
on its
-
terms
-
and I
-
want to
-
understand
-
what is it
-
that God
-
meant me to
-
understand
-
in this
-
text
-
what was it
-
that the
-
original audience
-
was meant to
-
get from this
-
right
-
and where I
-
find
-
tension
-
I try to
-
work that
-
out
-
okay
-
and so for
-
me
-
what
-
view of
-
the days
-
of creation
-
is compelling
-
I find
-
the
-
analogical
-
day
-
theory
-
to be
-
pretty
-
compelling
-
describing
-
God's
-
creative
-
act
-
what
-
God
-
did
-
but in
-
ways
-
in the
-
sense
-
of an
-
analogy
-
just like
-
a workman
-
went out
-
and created
-
this is
-
God's
-
work week
-
okay
-
and it's
-
going to
-
be different
-
than our
-
work week
-
but we
-
can understand
-
that God
-
is the
-
one who
-
created
-
yeah
-
before the
-
luminaries
-
and then
-
he created
-
the sun
-
on day
-
four
-
after the
-
plants
-
yeah
-
so
-
so
-
this is
-
not
-
so if
-
you might
-
if you look
-
back into
-
the church
-
into church
-
history
-
you might
-
be wondering
-
why did
-
Augustine
-
and Athanasius
-
and Origen
-
take this
-
allegorical
-
view
-
of
-
instantaneous
-
creation
-
and it's
-
these exact
-
questions
-
there's
-
nothing new
-
under the
-
sun
-
the ancient
-
church
-
also looked
-
at it
-
and said
-
man
-
light
-
is before
-
the sun
-
that doesn't
-
make any
-
sense
-
but why
-
would God
-
turn on
-
the light
-
and then
-
turn off
-
the light
-
on and
-
off
-
for evening
-
and morning
-
when there
-
isn't a
-
sun
-
when we
-
understand
-
the morning
-
to be the
-
rising of
-
the sun
-
so you
-
see
-
they all
-
had the
-
exact same
-
questions
-
we have
-
and different
-
people are
-
going to be
-
able to
-
explain those
-
in different
-
ways
-
so I'm not
-
trying to say
-
there's only
-
one answer
-
but the
-
same issues
-
why does
-
day seven
-
not have
-
an evening
-
and a
-
morning
-
why is
-
day two
-
creation
-
event
-
starting
-
with there
-
was no
-
plant
-
in the
-
field
-
and human
-
beings
-
are being
-
created
-
but plants
-
were made
-
on day
-
three
-
and this
-
is day
-
six
-
so
-
for these
-
reasons
-
textual
-
reasons
-
different
-
people over
-
time have
-
taken different
-
views
-
but
-
ultimately
-
I'm not
-
here to
-
say
-
you should
-
take my
-
view
-
if you
-
want to
-
learn more
-
about my
-
view
-
you can
-
read
-
see
-
John
-
Collins
-
book
-
reading
-
Genesis
-
well
-
if you
-
want to
-
learn
-
about
-
day
-
age
-
you can
-
read
-
Hugh
-
Ross's
-
books
-
if you
-
want to
-
learn
-
about
-
the
-
patristic
-
views
-
you have
-
the early
-
Christian
-
readings
-
of
-
Genesis
-
1
-
there's
-
a lot
-
of great
-
books out
-
there
-
lost world
-
of
-
Genesis
-
1
-
by
-
John
-
Walton
-
that will
-
give you
-
the
-
kingdom
-
temple
-
view
-
and so
-
for
-
answers in
-
Genesis
-
if you
-
want to
-
learn about
-
young
-
creationism
-
there you
-
go
-
Meredith
-
Kline
-
there's a
-
lot of
-
great
-
research
-
out there
-
to learn
-
but I
-
hope we
-
can come
-
to this
-
with a
-
sense of
-
humility
-
understanding
-
that we're
-
in a
-
great
-
company
-
of people
-
who all
-
disagreed
-
with each
-
other
-
and are
-
just
-
trying to
-
do
-
justice
-
as they
-
see it
-
to the
-
creation
-
narrative
-
right
-
okay
-
yeah
-
any
-
questions
-
I'm
-
done
-
so
-
questions
-
question
-
time
-
justice
-
lay it
-
on me
-
I have a
-
couple
-
questions
-
I'm curious
-
when you
-
think about
-
kind of
-
the
-
epistemology
-
behind
-
what you
-
do in
-
science
-
and how
-
you
-
approach
-
scripture
-
looking at
-
the world
-
scientifically
-
we know
-
the scientific
-
model
-
has
-
certainty
-
attached to
-
it
-
right
-
yeah
-
when we
-
read
-
scripture
-
it seems
-
like there
-
is uncertainty
-
there too
-
I mean
-
you see
-
Jesus'
-
disciples
-
are uncertain
-
about a lot
-
of things
-
you know
-
Job
-
and other
-
prophets
-
but then
-
on the other
-
hand
-
you have
-
people like
-
Luke saying
-
you know
-
I'm
-
like you're
-
the theophilus
-
this is
-
so that
-
you can have
-
certainty
-
about the things
-
that you've
-
been taught
-
so I'm
-
wondering
-
how do you
-
think about
-
certainty
-
versus uncertainty
-
you look at
-
general revelation
-
through different
-
lens
-
than you
-
look at
-
scripture
-
or do you
-
find that
-
they're
-
more similar
-
than that
-
so I
-
tend to have
-
a very low
-
view
-
of
-
the
-
ability of
-
human beings
-
to gain
-
certainty
-
my
-
this has
-
been
-
driven to me
-
by being a
-
scientist
-
okay
-
we have this
-
popular view
-
of science
-
those are the
-
people who
-
know things
-
but for all
-
those of us
-
who are
-
scientifically
-
trained
-
we know
-
that basically
-
what we
-
learn is
-
how often
-
we're all
-
wrong about
-
everything
-
and how many
-
different ways
-
there is to
-
explain different
-
phenomenon
-
and so
-
a lot of
-
times we come
-
to things
-
with sort of
-
like you said
-
a particular
-
model in mind
-
sort of a
-
hypothetical model
-
hypothesis about
-
what is going
-
on and we
-
take the
-
information we get
-
and we test it
-
against it
-
and we try
-
to see if it
-
fits or doesn't
-
fit but a lot
-
of times it
-
doesn't fit
-
and it doesn't
-
mean we toss
-
out the model
-
sometimes it
-
doesn't fit
-
and we're just
-
like this is
-
strange
-
right
-
and I think
-
this is also
-
true of
-
scripture
-
I mean I
-
think when
-
it comes to
-
certainty
-
there are some
-
things that are
-
very clear and
-
certain in
-
scripture
-
right
-
the resurrection
-
of Jesus
-
like there's
-
no ambiguity
-
about that
-
right
-
the
-
historicity
-
of the
-
apostle Paul
-
like these
-
are things
-
that we're
-
not really
-
arguing about
-
but there
-
is in
-
prophecy
-
in a lot
-
of the ancient
-
narratives there
-
are things that
-
they just don't
-
give us all
-
the information
-
it's kind of
-
known that
-
the Hebraic
-
Bible gives
-
you sort of
-
just blow by
-
blow action
-
a lot of
-
times and
-
doesn't really
-
give you a lot
-
of detail
-
like what was
-
this person
-
thinking
-
am I meant
-
to understand
-
this as being
-
a good act
-
or a bad
-
act
-
right
-
is God
-
telling me
-
that this
-
is something
-
I should
-
model
-
or is this
-
something I
-
shouldn't
-
model
-
and a lot
-
of times
-
wisdom
-
is found
-
in we
-
as the
-
collective
-
church
-
and collective
-
interpreters
-
working through
-
these issues
-
together
-
with the aid
-
of history
-
and other
-
elements
-
biblical
-
understanding
-
biblical
-
languages
-
etc
-
we can work
-
on these
-
to gain
-
a better
-
grasp of
-
certainty
-
but I think
-
we need to
-
have an
-
open hand
-
on those
-
things
-
that
-
there is
-
widespread
-
disagreement
-
on
-
where we
-
all understand
-
this is
-
hard
-
we don't
-
really know
-
exactly how
-
to understand
-
this
-
and those
-
things
-
we need to
-
have a
-
closed fist
-
maybe that
-
sounds bad
-
but a
-
firm grasp
-
on those
-
things that
-
are clear
-
to everybody
-
those things
-
that are
-
nice in
-
orthodoxy
-
those things
-
that we can
-
describe in
-
creeds and
-
confessions
-
that are the
-
essentials of the
-
faith as
-
Raul would
-
say
-
that have
-
salvific
-
import
-
right
-
but for
-
these other
-
things I
-
think we
-
can take
-
a more
-
humility
-
humble
-
approach
-
alright that's
-
it guys
-
we gotta get
-
downstairs to
-
worship
-
I hope
-
that we
-
eventually get
-
the idea that
-
we can love
-
and worship
-
God from
-
these days
-
whatever they
-
mean
-
thanks guys
-
thanks so
-
much