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Doctrine of Creation

Trinity Baptist Church - Sermons

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  1. All right, so this is day two of our Doctrine of Creation course.

  2. We are going to start today by talking about, well, the plan for today is to talk about the days of creation, different views of the days of creation, what do we make of this amazing text that we found.

  3. But before we get into that, I'd like to start by talking a little bit about speech, communication generally.

  4. If we think about in academic jargon, in speech act theory, they divide communication into three parts.

  5. You have locution, illocution, and perlocution.

  6. Okay?

  7. Locution is the form of the communication.

  8. The grammar, the syntax, the context, that kind of thing.

  9. The illocution refers to the meaning that is meant to be conveyed by the communication.

  10. And the perlocution refers to what the audience actually receives from the communication.

  11. So before we get, actually, before we get started, do you have the time?

  12. No.

  13. No? You don't have the time?

  14. No.

  15. Does anybody have the time?

  16. It's 9.

  17. 9.

  18. 9.

  19. 9.

  20. 10.

  21. 10.

  22. So when I ask, do you have the time, most of us are looking for our watch.

  23. Right?

  24. We're looking for, well, nowadays, we're looking for our phone to try to figure out what the

  25. time is.

  26. Because when I ask, do you have the time, most people are not going to answer yes or no.

  27. No, you did actually answer no.

  28. That's technically the correct answer.

  29. Right?

  30. If you take the actual form of the sentence and say, the correct answer to, do you have

  31. the time, is either what?

  32. Yes or no.

  33. Right?

  34. If you take the literal meaning.

  35. But when I ask, do you have the time, you understand that what I'm asking really is, can

  36. you give me, can you tell me what time it is?

  37. Right?

  38. Does that make sense?

  39. So in this sense, the locution of the sentence is, do you have the time?

  40. Right?

  41. Or do you know the time?

  42. The illocution is, can you tell me what time it is?

  43. Right?

  44. And the perlocution is hopefully, oh, I will get the time for you.

  45. Right?

  46. Responding to the meaning of what is meant to be conveyed.

  47. And then this can change, using the exact same phrase, I can change the illocution.

  48. Right?

  49. Like, do you know what time it is?

  50. Oh, do you know what time it is?

  51. You know, oh, check your watch.

  52. And like, do you know what time it is?

  53. Right?

  54. Again, the correct answer from your kids is not, oh, no.

  55. No, I don't know what time.

  56. You know?

  57. No, the correct answer is, I'm sorry.

  58. I'm up too late.

  59. I need to go to bed.

  60. Right?

  61. Or, do you know what time it is?

  62. And it's, you're like, yes, it's time for football.

  63. Right?

  64. And so, what's important about the speech act theory here is that the illocution, the meaning

  65. that is meant to be conveyed, is in part based on the locution, the form of the sentence,

  66. but also surrounding context.

  67. Right?

  68. Other elements of embedded meaning that we pick up when we're doing communication.

  69. So, why am I talking about this?

  70. This is actually really important because of biblical inerrancy.

  71. Right?

  72. We as Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God.

  73. And it's therefore inerrant, meaning it's without error.

  74. All the truth claims it affirms are true.

  75. That's what the doctrine means.

  76. Right?

  77. And so, when we apply our principles of communication that I just talked about, that means that the

  78. illocution, the meaning that is meant to be conveyed by the text, is always true.

  79. Okay?

  80. And so, when we, the goal then of our hermeneutics and exegesis then is to take our perlocution,

  81. the way that we're receiving the text, the way we understand it, and aligning it with the

  82. illocution, the way, the meaning that's meant to be conveyed by the text.

  83. But, as anybody who's spent any time in the church knows, there's about 10 perlocutions,

  84. per locution, that is out there.

  85. Okay?

  86. For every text, there seems to be a good number of ways that the audience has received it.

  87. And so, this is definitely true.

  88. So, what, what, I guess my question is, why?

  89. Right?

  90. Why?

  91. I mean, if the, if the locution is there, we're all reading the same text, you know, maybe

  92. in different translations, right?

  93. But, we're all reading the same locution.

  94. Why do we get different perlocutions?

  95. Yeah?

  96. Perspective.

  97. Yeah.

  98. Maybe there's, yeah, maybe there's different perspectives.

  99. Maybe there's different philosophical presuppositions that we're bringing to the text that help

  100. explain why one person gets one perlocution and another person gets another.

  101. Okay?

  102. Ultimately, we're all trying to do the same thing, which is get the correct meaning from

  103. the text.

  104. So, I submit to you that when it comes to reading Genesis 1, especially the days of creation,

  105. the biggest philosophical underpinning background that we're bringing to the text that is going

  106. to color the way we understand it is what I call one of the major tensions in biblical interpretation.

  107. And, that major tension is how do we balance general and special revelation?

  108. So, generally, when we talk about revelation, meaning God's self-expression, we, a lot, historically,

  109. we've broken that up into two major groups.

  110. Okay?

  111. Sometimes, it's described as two books.

  112. We have the book of nature, also called general revelation.

  113. It's called general revelation because the general public has access to it.

  114. Everybody, in principle, has access to the book of nature, that revelation of God.

  115. And, it's properly understood as revelation of God, right?

  116. Because God creating ex nihilo could have created in multiple different ways.

  117. Right?

  118. And, so, the creation that we have is actually a self-revelation of God.

  119. He has created it this way for a reason or has actually communicated himself in the creation.

  120. So, that's general revelation.

  121. The other one, not the book of nature, but the book of scripture.

  122. The book of scripture.

  123. We know this one.

  124. Special revelation.

  125. It's called special revelation because it has a smaller scope.

  126. Not everyone in the whole history of the world has received special revelation.

  127. We know from redemption history there was a small, you know, relatively small group of people

  128. who were directly communicated to by God.

  129. And, this is what we treasure as the Bible.

  130. So, when it comes to understanding nature, understanding the world, how do we balance general revelation,

  131. that communication of God that we get from nature, and special revelation?

  132. Now, it might be easy just to say, well, look, special revelation, God's active speech in the Bible,

  133. boom, clear.

  134. We just rely on that only.

  135. However, if we pay attention closely to what scripture says,

  136. scripture says for us to go out and see God in nature.

  137. That God has revealed himself in nature.

  138. And so, if we take special revelation seriously, we also have to take general revelation seriously.

  139. That's the rub.

  140. So, now we're all sort of in this position of trying to balance what we learn from nature

  141. and what we learn from scripture, especially as it involves understanding the natural world.

  142. So, I've sort of put together a rough spectrum of what I believe are sort of different buckets

  143. that we can put different people who have weighed general and special revelation differently.

  144. Okay?

  145. Okay?

  146. This first bucket, I'll, I call, and then, okay, so for the record, I'm going to use a lot of names here.

  147. I'm going to be naming a lot of things.

  148. Wherever possible, I have used names that the people who support that view use.

  149. Okay?

  150. I'm not trying to label people.

  151. Some of these names, you might think, sound derogatory.

  152. But, for the people who use the term for themselves, they do not mean it derogatorily, right?

  153. So, just as reference, try to, try to, like, let's try to remove all of our preconceived notions of this language

  154. just so we can come to understand this topic.

  155. Again, not trying to, to color anybody's, anybody's reading.

  156. Okay?

  157. Except for the first one here.

  158. I call them, the first one and the last one.

  159. You'll see.

  160. I'm equally harsh.

  161. So, the first one I call science skeptics.

  162. And the science skeptic is someone who takes special revelation here, and it's super weighty,

  163. and general revelation is really not doing anything.

  164. Okay?

  165. And this view, basically, is saying they don't believe science or studying nature at all is capable of giving reliable information about the world.

  166. Okay?

  167. Okay?

  168. And so, they, they would say that special revelation is really the only way we can get any knowledge.

  169. Now, this is actually, isn't a very common view.

  170. Okay?

  171. So, but there are people out there who, who would support this, say that we really can't trust anything we see other than what we read in Scripture.

  172. And the reason I don't think this is, I'm going to say I don't think this is a tenable view for us to hold as Christians,

  173. and for the reasons I said before.

  174. It's kind of a, it could be a circular problem.

  175. Because if you say, special revelation is my only authority, that's the only thing I trust, I can't trust anything I see with my eyes,

  176. then you're going to have to deal with those passages of Scripture that tell you that you must look out on creation and learn things.

  177. That we're expected to know things about God from creation.

  178. Right?

  179. I just think, I always think of Genesis 1.

  180. I mean, Genesis 1, Romans 1.

  181. Right?

  182. Right?

  183. God's eternal attributes, namely His divine power, is clearly seen through nature.

  184. Right?

  185. So we are expected to be able to learn things about God from nature, and special revelation says so.

  186. So I don't think science skeptics, or this posture of being super flippant about anything in nature, is something that really we can hold.

  187. But this is a view, I want to highlight, this is a view, this is a way of balancing it.

  188. Basically not balancing it all.

  189. General revelation is not even on the scale.

  190. Another view we can look at I call concordists, or they call themselves concordists.

  191. Concordists take special revelation and general revelation, and they weigh it sort of like this.

  192. Where special revelation is the driver's seat, but general revelation is bringing something to the table in terms of what we can learn about the world.

  193. Okay?

  194. Basically, if you imagine, the Bible sets the table.

  195. The Bible is saying, this is what we see in nature.

  196. And then the concordists would then look at the world and say, I need to take this information I'm getting from the world and fit it in to this table that's set by Scripture.

  197. So they would emphasize special revelation, but they also have a high view of general revelation.

  198. And in general, these Christians that believe that the Bible is intending to communicate scientific information at some level,

  199. and therefore it's our job to fit what we learn from nature into this biblical framework.

  200. Okay.

  201. Concordists.

  202. Boom.

  203. Right smack dab in the middle, we have what I call the harmonists.

  204. Again, not all of these terms are my terms.

  205. But a harmonist, and a harmonist would say they believe that science and Scripture interpretation done correctly will produce a coherent worldview.

  206. Saying stuff like, all truth is God's truth.

  207. Right?

  208. Anything we learn correctly from nature and anything we learn correctly from Scripture are going to harmonize.

  209. Right?

  210. This is why we call them harmonists.

  211. So they, in this view, they don't really privilege special or general revelation when it comes to looking out at nature.

  212. Now, I want to be clear, every Orthodox Christian believes that special revelation is the highest authority.

  213. But we're talking specifically about how we understand the natural world.

  214. Right?

  215. And in understanding the natural world, a harmonist would say, we take the observational data that we have, and we take the scriptural data that we have, and we take them on their own terms.

  216. And then, if there's any apparent conflict there, we try to smooth those over.

  217. Either by re-appropriate, re-understanding our interpretation of science, or re-interpreting Scripture, whichever one is more appropriate given the apparent conflict.

  218. That's the harmonists.

  219. Next, as you might imagine, the scale tips this way.

  220. We call these accommodationists.

  221. Accommodationists say that Scripture interpretation done correctly will fit into the scientific consensus in detail.

  222. So this is sort of the flip side of the concordance, where accommodationists would say, scientific knowledge is really setting the table.

  223. It's really setting the parameters.

  224. And when we correctly understand Scripture, it should fit in to what we see in the scientific data.

  225. Okay?

  226. They'll often de-emphasize the scientific information expressed in Scripture, and focus more on sort of the spiritual and moral import of the Bible.

  227. Does that make sense?

  228. Okay.

  229. And then now we're going to do the last group, which is general revelation way down here, super way down, and special revelations up there, not really doing much of anything.

  230. I call these biblical skeptics.

  231. They don't believe that Scripture is capable of providing reliable information about the world at all.

  232. Basically, the Bible is only there to convey moral truths, and shouldn't really be relied on to convey anything what we would call scientific information at all.

  233. Okay?

  234. That general revelation, science, observation, whatever, those are really the only reliable ways to get information.

  235. That's about the natural world.

  236. Okay?

  237. And equally, I don't think this is something that we can hold as Orthodox Christians.

  238. Okay?

  239. I don't really think the Bible will accept this parameter of saying, yes, I'm only here to give you moral truths.

  240. It sounds a lot like I'm giving you history sometimes.

  241. It sounds a lot like I'm trying to tell you something that actually happened.

  242. But, you know, don't worry about that.

  243. Like, no, no, no.

  244. I don't think Scripture is going to, and I think we should accept Scripture being demoted into that level.

  245. Okay?

  246. I think we should allow Scripture to speak on the areas that it speaks on.

  247. Right?

  248. And so, equally, I think a biblical skeptic, a scientific skeptic, these two poles are things we want to avoid.

  249. So we're all, I think most of us as Orthodox Christians find ourselves somewhere in between.

  250. Somewhere in between.

  251. And you can take any of these different categories that I've made, and you can find a spectrum within the spectrum.

  252. And so it all gets very complicated.

  253. But you can imagine, as a accommodationist or a concordist come to the text of Genesis 1,

  254. they may be expecting to see different things.

  255. They may be asking different questions of the text, and therefore getting different answers.

  256. Does that make sense?

  257. So I think this is the philosophical background that all of us are bringing to our reading of Genesis.

  258. And I think this is mostly the biggest driver of the different perlocutions that we bring to the same text.

  259. Okay?

  260. All right.

  261. With that being said, why don't we actually go to the text?

  262. Anybody have their Bible open?

  263. We're just going to read all of Genesis 1 to 2-3.

  264. Who feels confident enough to read a large portion of Scripture?

  265. Richard, you want to go?

  266. Go for it.

  267. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

  268. Now the earth was formless and empty.

  269. Darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

  270. And God said, let there be light.

  271. And there was light.

  272. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

  273. God called the light day, and the darkness he called night.

  274. And there was evening, and there was morning, the first day.

  275. And God said, let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.

  276. So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it.

  277. And it was so.

  278. God called the vault sky.

  279. And there was evening, and there was morning, the second day.

  280. And God said, let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.

  281. And it was so.

  282. God called the dry ground land, and the gathered waters he called seas.

  283. And God saw that it was good.

  284. Then God said, let the land produce vegetation, seed-bearing plants and trees,

  285. on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.

  286. And it was so.

  287. The land produced vegetation, plants bearing seed according to their kinds,

  288. and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds.

  289. And God saw that it was good.

  290. And there was evening, and there was morning, the third day.

  291. And God said, let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night,

  292. and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times and days and years,

  293. and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.

  294. And it was so.

  295. And God made two great lights, the greater light to govern the day,

  296. and the lesser light to govern the night.

  297. He also made the stars.

  298. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on earth,

  299. to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.

  300. And God saw that it was good.

  301. And there was evening, and there was morning, the fourth day.

  302. And God said, let the water team with living creatures,

  303. and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.

  304. So God created the great creatures of the sea,

  305. and every living thing with which the water teems,

  306. and that moves about in it according to their kinds.

  307. And every winged bird according to its kind.

  308. And God saw that it was good.

  309. God blessed them and said,

  310. be fruitful and increase in number,

  311. and fill the water in the seas,

  312. and let the birds increase on the earth.

  313. And there was evening, and there was morning, the fifth day.

  314. And God said,

  315. let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds,

  316. the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground,

  317. and the wild animals,

  318. each according to its kind.

  319. And it was so.

  320. God made the wild animals according to their kinds,

  321. the livestock according to their kinds,

  322. and all the creatures that move along the ground

  323. according to their kinds.

  324. And God saw that it was good.

  325. Then God said,

  326. let us make mankind in our image,

  327. in our likeness,

  328. so that they may rule over the fish in the sea,

  329. and the birds in the sky,

  330. over the livestock,

  331. and all the wild animals,

  332. and over all the creatures that move along the ground.

  333. So God created mankind in his own image.

  334. In the image of God he created them,

  335. male and female he created them.

  336. God blessed them and said to them,

  337. be fruitful and increase in number.

  338. Fill the earth and subdue it.

  339. Rule over the fish in the sea,

  340. and the birds in the sky,

  341. and over every living creature that moves on the ground.

  342. Then God said,

  343. I give you every seed-bearing plant

  344. on the face of the whole earth,

  345. and every tree that has fruit with seed in it.

  346. They will be yours for food.

  347. And to all the beasts of the earth,

  348. and all the birds in the sky,

  349. and all the creatures that move along the ground,

  350. everything that has the breath of life in it,

  351. I give every green plant for food.

  352. And it was so.

  353. God saw all that he had made,

  354. and it was very good.

  355. And there was evening,

  356. and there was morning,

  357. the sixth day.

  358. Thus the heavens and the earth were completed

  359. in all their vast array.

  360. By the seventh day,

  361. God had finished the work he had been doing.

  362. So on the seventh day,

  363. he rested from all his work.

  364. Then God blessed the seventh day

  365. and made it holy.

  366. Because on it,

  367. he rested from all the work of creating

  368. that he had done.

  369. All right.

  370. Wow.

  371. There's something special about reading Scripture

  372. when it's snowing outside.

  373. I don't know.

  374. Isn't that just beautiful?

  375. It never gets old.

  376. But let's step back.

  377. Let's zoom out a little bit

  378. and get kind of a bird's eye view

  379. of this whole creation account that we have.

  380. As you can see,

  381. there's sort of a pattern,

  382. a lot of Christians over time

  383. have seen sort of a pattern

  384. in the creation days.

  385. You have two sets of three.

  386. You have a set of forming,

  387. forming spaces,

  388. and then you have a set of filling,

  389. the filling of those spaces.

  390. So you can imagine,

  391. day one,

  392. we have the creation of light and dark,

  393. and in day four,

  394. we have the creation of the luminaries.

  395. Those things that are going to be shining

  396. in the light and the dark.

  397. We're creating,

  398. we're shining, basically,

  399. with the light and the dark.

  400. Day two,

  401. we have the separation of the water from the sky.

  402. Day five,

  403. we have the creation of sea creatures

  404. and flying creatures.

  405. Right?

  406. Day three,

  407. we have the creation of the land,

  408. and then a special creation event

  409. of vegetation on the land.

  410. Day six,

  411. we have the creation of the land animals,

  412. and a special creation event

  413. of human beings.

  414. Each one of these six days

  415. ends with the same phrase,

  416. and there was evening,

  417. and there was morning,

  418. X day.

  419. Technically,

  420. there is no definite article.

  421. Right?

  422. So we say the first day,

  423. but it's technically like first day.

  424. Day one.

  425. Day two.

  426. A lot of,

  427. a lot,

  428. some people make a big deal out of that.

  429. I'm,

  430. take it for what you will.

  431. But,

  432. day seven

  433. does not have that phrase.

  434. Day seven is a special day.

  435. Day seven is where God rests

  436. from all his creation.

  437. It has no parallel

  438. in the forming

  439. or in the filling.

  440. It's its own thing.

  441. It's the capstone,

  442. and there is no evening,

  443. and there is no morning.

  444. Everything is very good.

  445. Good,

  446. good,

  447. good,

  448. good,

  449. good,

  450. very good.

  451. Very good.

  452. That's the,

  453. that's the data.

  454. So,

  455. there it is.

  456. That's the low,

  457. that's the locution,

  458. everybody.

  459. We all have the same thing.

  460. We're all working off

  461. of the same thing,

  462. and we are,

  463. hopefully,

  464. we're all working

  465. and striving together

  466. to get at

  467. the correct illocution.

  468. What are we supposed to be receiving

  469. in this text?

  470. Okay?

  471. But,

  472. there are quite a few

  473. different per locutions,

  474. and you can imagine

  475. if we take our philosophical

  476. predispositions in mind,

  477. those different ways

  478. of weighing general

  479. and special revelation,

  480. you can imagine

  481. we come to this text

  482. with different questions.

  483. So,

  484. if we imagine

  485. we have a very heavy

  486. view of special revelation

  487. in terms of what it's supposed

  488. to explain about nature,

  489. we might be asking questions

  490. of like,

  491. how did God create?

  492. In what manner?

  493. What was the mechanism

  494. by which God created things?

  495. And,

  496. expecting to receive

  497. that information in the text.

  498. Whereas,

  499. maybe if you go

  500. the other direction,

  501. weighing general revelation

  502. more,

  503. and special revelation

  504. at a different level,

  505. you might be saying,

  506. okay,

  507. what is it that the Bible

  508. is trying to convey

  509. in its own context

  510. to us?

  511. Were the original audience

  512. asking those kinds

  513. of questions?

  514. Were they asking questions

  515. of like,

  516. how exactly

  517. did God create?

  518. So,

  519. what are the different views?

  520. Well,

  521. luckily for us,

  522. there's only like 17.

  523. 17.

  524. No,

  525. I'm joking.

  526. There's not 17.

  527. By my count,

  528. there is

  529. only 12.

  530. So,

  531. we're going to go

  532. through these.

  533. You know,

  534. I have taught this class

  535. before,

  536. a few years back,

  537. and I had,

  538. basically I had an overview

  539. of all the modern views

  540. of Genesis 1.

  541. and I spread them out

  542. and I was very,

  543. still,

  544. I'm going to present

  545. those today too.

  546. So,

  547. I haven't given up

  548. on those.

  549. But I've been really

  550. interested in church history

  551. and I've been wanting to,

  552. so I wanted to go through

  553. the ones I had made before

  554. and I wanted to slot in

  555. different examples

  556. of church fathers

  557. who held the different views.

  558. And,

  559. as it turns out,

  560. I failed

  561. spectacularly

  562. because,

  563. as is often the case,

  564. the patristic views

  565. are very different

  566. than the ones we have today.

  567. They're harder

  568. to categorize

  569. in the way,

  570. in the common

  571. understandings we have

  572. in today.

  573. So,

  574. I decided to make

  575. a whole new section

  576. starting just with

  577. what I call

  578. the patristic views

  579. of early Genesis.

  580. And they generally

  581. fall into three

  582. different categories.

  583. The first one

  584. is

  585. the world weak

  586. hypothesis.

  587. World weak.

  588. So,

  589. what this view

  590. holds is that

  591. the creation account

  592. is actually

  593. a prophecy,

  594. a forward-looking

  595. prophecy

  596. of six

  597. eras

  598. of human history.

  599. Six,

  600. each one of the days

  601. is a thousand years.

  602. The understanding here

  603. is that

  604. with the Lord,

  605. a thousand years

  606. is like a day

  607. and a day

  608. is like a thousand years.

  609. And the patristics

  610. are like,

  611. well,

  612. good.

  613. It says here,

  614. day,

  615. therefore a thousand years.

  616. Right?

  617. Equals.

  618. And so,

  619. they said,

  620. oh,

  621. there's six thousand years

  622. of human history

  623. being prophesied

  624. in this early

  625. interpretation.

  626. With the seventh day

  627. representing the

  628. eschatological

  629. millennium

  630. of Jesus.

  631. Of Jesus'

  632. reign on earth

  633. as we see in Revelation.

  634. The millennium,

  635. the millennial reign.

  636. And then some fathers

  637. actually talking about

  638. the future eighth day,

  639. which is the

  640. recreation of the

  641. heavens and the earth.

  642. Right?

  643. As far as I know,

  644. there is

  645. no one today

  646. who holds this view.

  647. Okay?

  648. But this was actually

  649. a really,

  650. really common

  651. popular view

  652. in the early church.

  653. People like,

  654. yeah.

  655. Richard?

  656. This view is

  657. a lot more popular

  658. than you might suspect.

  659. Even today.

  660. Even today.

  661. All right.

  662. All right.

  663. I'm willing to be wrong

  664. about this.

  665. You can easily go to

  666. YouTube or the internet

  667. in general

  668. and you can find

  669. this view

  670. espoused by

  671. living,

  672. breathing human beings.

  673. Wow.

  674. Well,

  675. there you go.

  676. I mean,

  677. look,

  678. I was actually going

  679. to point out

  680. that as often

  681. as strange

  682. as this view sounds,

  683. this has actually

  684. had a long shelf life.

  685. church fathers

  686. like Irenaeus,

  687. Hippolytus,

  688. Cyprian,

  689. John of Damascus,

  690. and Bede

  691. all held

  692. some version

  693. of this view.

  694. And through people

  695. like John of Damascus

  696. and Bede,

  697. this continued on

  698. through the Middle Ages

  699. where even people

  700. like Anselm

  701. and Thomas of Aquinas,

  702. they would

  703. reference people

  704. holding this view.

  705. Okay?

  706. So,

  707. one patristic view

  708. is the world

  709. weak hypothesis.

  710. Another view,

  711. which is a little bit

  712. more

  713. maybe familiar

  714. to some of us,

  715. is what I will call

  716. Alexandrian allegory.

  717. Alexandrian allegory

  718. is the view

  719. of a lot of

  720. church fathers

  721. in North Africa

  722. who believed that

  723. based on what they

  724. understood about

  725. the natural world

  726. and based on

  727. interesting facts,

  728. interesting facets

  729. of the Genesis

  730. narrative itself,

  731. believed that

  732. actually

  733. God created

  734. instantaneously.

  735. Everything.

  736. All at once.

  737. Boom.

  738. Okay?

  739. There was no time,

  740. there was no sequence

  741. in reality

  742. in the actual

  743. act of creation

  744. and that the

  745. creation narrative

  746. we get here

  747. is either an allegory

  748. talking about

  749. moral and spiritual

  750. truths

  751. or the different

  752. natures of the

  753. created world

  754. or it's

  755. an accommodation

  756. to human

  757. understanding

  758. being where

  759. it's really hard

  760. for us to understand

  761. God creating

  762. everything in an instant.

  763. So,

  764. for instance,

  765. church fathers

  766. like Clement

  767. and Origen

  768. and Athanasius

  769. all held

  770. something like

  771. this instantaneous

  772. creation

  773. with an allegorical

  774. understanding of

  775. Genesis 1.

  776. Famously,

  777. Augustine

  778. held this view

  779. to a certain extent

  780. and he believed

  781. that actually

  782. the days of creation

  783. were not days of

  784. God creating

  785. the physical world

  786. were actually

  787. were days

  788. were moments

  789. by which

  790. the angelic

  791. host

  792. were being

  793. exposed

  794. to

  795. what was

  796. about to

  797. happen

  798. in creation.

  799. Right?

  800. Have anybody

  801. ever read

  802. the Silmarillion?

  803. Anybody ever

  804. read the Silmarillion?

  805. Well,

  806. okay,

  807. two people.

  808. So,

  809. it's hard to get

  810. through,

  811. but if you

  812. started the Silmarillion

  813. you probably

  814. read this part

  815. because it's

  816. literally the

  817. first two pages.

  818. in the Silmarillion

  819. you have

  820. this is the

  821. deep cut

  822. of J.R.

  823. Tolkien

  824. his creation

  825. myth

  826. of his

  827. Middle Earth.

  828. And Iluvatar

  829. is singing

  830. this is the

  831. God

  832. this is the

  833. one God

  834. of the

  835. Middle Earth

  836. he's singing

  837. a song

  838. and his

  839. different

  840. angelic hosts

  841. are harmonizing

  842. with him

  843. and Melkor

  844. the devil

  845. character

  846. he's doing

  847. disharmony

  848. and Iluvatar

  849. keeps on

  850. bringing his

  851. disharmony

  852. back into

  853. harmony

  854. and Melkor

  855. is like

  856. ah man

  857. you know

  858. and then

  859. boom

  860. it's done

  861. and what

  862. Iluvatar

  863. does

  864. is he

  865. shows

  866. the angels

  867. like

  868. what you

  869. just

  870. sang

  871. is the

  872. story

  873. of this

  874. world

  875. is the

  876. story

  877. of this

  878. world

  879. and he's

  880. showing

  881. them

  882. human

  883. history

  884. or

  885. the

  886. history

  887. of

  888. Middle

  889. Earth

  890. right

  891. and I

  892. think

  893. this is

  894. Tolkien

  895. hearkening

  896. back to

  897. this view

  898. of Augustine

  899. that in

  900. creation

  901. God

  902. is

  903. sorry

  904. I should

  905. say

  906. then Iluvatar

  907. just goes

  908. boom

  909. there it is

  910. the world

  911. is created

  912. right

  913. and then

  914. those

  915. angelic hosts

  916. can enter

  917. the creation

  918. it gets

  919. very confusing

  920. after that

  921. but I

  922. think this

  923. is hearkening

  924. back to

  925. that

  926. where

  927. God

  928. is

  929. presaging

  930. what is

  931. about to

  932. occur

  933. to the

  934. angelic

  935. host

  936. and then

  937. the actual

  938. act of

  939. creation

  940. is

  941. instantaneous

  942. so that's

  943. Alexandrian

  944. allegory

  945. we have

  946. another view

  947. called

  948. Cappadocian

  949. literalism

  950. this is

  951. closer to

  952. what we

  953. are familiar

  954. with today

  955. these

  956. fathers

  957. centered around

  958. Antioch

  959. took a more

  960. straightforward

  961. reading of

  962. the text

  963. they said

  964. that

  965. basically

  966. it is

  967. what it

  968. is

  969. these

  970. are

  971. 24

  972. hour

  973. days

  974. right

  975. however

  976. this is

  977. different

  978. than

  979. modern

  980. views

  981. of

  982. 24

  983. hour

  984. day

  985. because

  986. they

  987. believed

  988. that

  989. this

  990. creation

  991. as we

  992. receive

  993. it

  994. now

  995. is

  996. the

  997. creation

  998. that

  999. God

  1000. made

  1001. in

  1002. those

  1003. 24

  1004. hour

  1005. days

  1006. so

  1007. including

  1008. predation

  1009. including

  1010. animal

  1011. death

  1012. all of

  1013. these

  1014. things

  1015. are

  1016. facets

  1017. of

  1018. God's

  1019. good

  1020. creation

  1021. which

  1022. distinguishes

  1023. it

  1024. from

  1025. modern

  1026. creation

  1027. views

  1028. of

  1029. 24

  1030. hour

  1031. days

  1032. and

  1033. they

  1034. also

  1035. engage

  1036. in a lot

  1037. of

  1038. allegory

  1039. in those

  1040. first

  1041. chapters

  1042. too

  1043. so

  1044. they

  1045. wouldn't

  1046. have

  1047. taken

  1048. everything

  1049. as straight

  1050. journalistic

  1051. history

  1052. but it

  1053. was closer

  1054. to

  1055. some of

  1056. the more

  1057. common

  1058. views

  1059. today

  1060. so

  1061. those

  1062. are

  1063. the

  1064. patristic

  1065. views

  1066. now

  1067. actually

  1068. as

  1069. time

  1070. went

  1071. on

  1072. in the

  1073. west

  1074. there

  1075. was

  1076. an

  1077. attempt

  1078. to

  1079. merge

  1080. these

  1081. two

  1082. views

  1083. together

  1084. you had

  1085. the idea

  1086. of

  1087. instantaneous

  1088. creation

  1089. followed

  1090. by

  1091. a

  1092. sequence

  1093. of

  1094. forming

  1095. that

  1096. kind

  1097. of

  1098. emerged

  1099. and if

  1100. you

  1101. think

  1102. about

  1103. it

  1104. we

  1105. all

  1106. sort

  1107. of

  1108. hold

  1109. something

  1110. like

  1111. this

  1112. view

  1113. today

  1114. right

  1115. we

  1116. all

  1117. believe

  1118. that

  1119. at

  1120. some

  1121. point

  1122. God

  1123. created

  1124. everything

  1125. and

  1126. we

  1127. all

  1128. believe

  1129. in

  1130. some

  1131. sort

  1132. of

  1133. sequence

  1134. of

  1135. forming

  1136. of

  1137. the

  1138. natural

  1139. world

  1140. whether

  1141. we

  1142. believe

  1143. that

  1144. the

  1145. sequence

  1146. of

  1147. forming

  1148. is

  1149. 24

  1150. hour

  1151. literal

  1152. days

  1153. solar

  1154. days

  1155. of

  1156. the

  1157. forming

  1158. and

  1159. special

  1160. creation

  1161. of

  1162. every

  1163. single

  1164. thing

  1165. or

  1166. we

  1167. believe

  1168. in

  1169. some

  1170. sort

  1171. of

  1172. development

  1173. we

  1174. all

  1175. sort

  1176. of

  1177. in

  1178. the

  1179. west

  1180. believe

  1181. in

  1182. this

  1183. kind

  1184. of

  1185. sequence

  1186. instantaneous

  1187. sequence

  1188. !

  1189. proponents

  1190. of

  1191. this

  1192. Cappadocian

  1193. view

  1194. would be

  1195. Basil

  1196. of

  1197. Caesarea

  1198. famously

  1199. he has

  1200. this book

  1201. called

  1202. the

  1203. Hexamarin

  1204. which is

  1205. an interpretation

  1206. of the

  1207. six days

  1208. of creation

  1209. Gregory

  1210. of Nyssa

  1211. and Gregory

  1212. of

  1213. Nazianzus

  1214. okay

  1215. that's

  1216. the

  1217. patristic

  1218. views

  1219. let's

  1220. jump

  1221. into

  1222. the

  1223. modern

  1224. views

  1225. we

  1226. have

  1227. young

  1228. earth

  1229. creationism

  1230. I'm

  1231. sure

  1232. a lot

  1233. of

  1234. us

  1235. are

  1236. familiar

  1237. with

  1238. this

  1239. this

  1240. is

  1241. basically

  1242. taking

  1243. Genesis

  1244. as

  1245. a

  1246. face

  1247. face

  1248. value

  1249. literal

  1250. journalistic

  1251. history

  1252. of

  1253. what's

  1254. going

  1255. on

  1256. and

  1257. it's

  1258. meant

  1259. to

  1260. be

  1261. understood

  1262. as

  1263. 24

  1264. hour

  1265. solar

  1266. days

  1267. that

  1268. creation

  1269. is

  1270. occurring

  1271. I'm

  1272. sure

  1273. a lot

  1274. of

  1275. us

  1276. are

  1277. familiar

  1278. with

  1279. this

  1280. view

  1281. they

  1282. also

  1283. believe

  1284. a

  1285. facet

  1286. of

  1287. young

  1288. creationism

  1289. is

  1290. they

  1291. believe

  1292. that

  1293. science

  1294. done

  1295. correctly

  1296. will

  1297. reveal

  1298. that

  1299. the

  1300. earth

  1301. and

  1302. the

  1303. universe

  1304. are

  1305. actually

  1306. 6,000

  1307. to

  1308. 10,000

  1309. years

  1310. old

  1311. right

  1312. and

  1313. they

  1314. get

  1315. that

  1316. number

  1317. 6,000

  1318. to

  1319. 10,000

  1320. by

  1321. taking

  1322. the

  1323. Genesis

  1324. narrative

  1325. right

  1326. Adam

  1327. was born

  1328. in the

  1329. sixth

  1330. day

  1331. and

  1332. then

  1333. we

  1334. have

  1335. a

  1336. genealogy

  1337. of

  1338. Adam

  1339. later

  1340. in

  1341. Genesis

  1342. a

  1343. genealogy

  1344. of

  1345. Adam's

  1346. descendants

  1347. how long

  1348. they lived

  1349. etc

  1350. and

  1351. actually

  1352. a man

  1353. named

  1354. Usher

  1355. I'm forgetting

  1356. his first

  1357. name

  1358. James

  1359. James

  1360. Usher

  1361. that's

  1362. right

  1363. he

  1364. was the

  1365. first

  1366. one

  1367. in

  1368. church

  1369. history

  1370. to

  1371. really

  1372. line

  1373. all of

  1374. these

  1375. genealogies

  1376. up

  1377. I think

  1378. this was

  1379. in the

  1380. 16th

  1381. century

  1382. line

  1383. all

  1384. these

  1385. genealogies

  1386. up

  1387. and

  1388. count

  1389. out

  1390. the

  1391. time

  1392. and

  1393. he

  1394. got

  1395. to

  1396. a

  1397. number

  1398. like

  1399. 6,000

  1400. to

  1401. 10,000

  1402. depending

  1403. on

  1404. how you

  1405. interpret

  1406. the

  1407. genealogies

  1408. so that's

  1409. young earth

  1410. creationism

  1411. there's another

  1412. little basket

  1413. of views

  1414. that I like

  1415. to call

  1416. ancient

  1417. science

  1418. interpretations

  1419. okay

  1420. what hold

  1421. these views

  1422. together

  1423. is that

  1424. they all

  1425. share a

  1426. common belief

  1427. that the

  1428. Genesis

  1429. account

  1430. is intending

  1431. to convey

  1432. not just

  1433. what God

  1434. did

  1435. but how

  1436. he created

  1437. and that

  1438. understanding

  1439. it correctly

  1440. these

  1441. understanding

  1442. the Genesis

  1443. narrative

  1444. correctly

  1445. it will

  1446. fit

  1447. with

  1448. modern

  1449. science

  1450. okay

  1451. so one

  1452. of these

  1453. views

  1454. is

  1455. the

  1456. appearance

  1457. of age

  1458. view

  1459. where it's

  1460. basically

  1461. the same

  1462. as young

  1463. earth

  1464. creationism

  1465. except

  1466. they don't

  1467. believe

  1468. that science

  1469. done correctly

  1470. will show

  1471. that the

  1472. earth is

  1473. young

  1474. they believe

  1475. that the

  1476. earth was

  1477. created in

  1478. 24 hour

  1479. solar days

  1480. but it was

  1481. created mature

  1482. much like

  1483. we believe

  1484. Adam was

  1485. created fully

  1486. formed

  1487. the earth

  1488. and the

  1489. universe

  1490. were created

  1491. fully formed

  1492. so it has

  1493. the appearance

  1494. of age

  1495. but not

  1496. actually

  1497. a long

  1498. period of

  1499. time

  1500. so they

  1501. would believe

  1502. if you go

  1503. out

  1504. scientifically

  1505. and look

  1506. at rocks

  1507. they're going

  1508. to look

  1509. really old

  1510. but in fact

  1511. they actually

  1512. are not

  1513. that old

  1514. okay

  1515. so that

  1516. is closer

  1517. to young

  1518. earth

  1519. creationism

  1520. where they're

  1521. saying we

  1522. can explain

  1523. the appearance

  1524. of age

  1525. here based

  1526. on this

  1527. understanding

  1528. of science

  1529. but they

  1530. would say

  1531. now with

  1532. that in

  1533. mind you

  1534. can actually

  1535. see that

  1536. it's really

  1537. young

  1538. yeah

  1539. age

  1540. yeah

  1541. yeah

  1542. so the

  1543. appearance

  1544. of age

  1545. and young

  1546. earth

  1547. creationism

  1548. kind of

  1549. there's a

  1550. little bit

  1551. of melding

  1552. in between

  1553. there

  1554. where they

  1555. can go

  1556. back and

  1557. forth

  1558. another one

  1559. of these

  1560. ancient

  1561. science

  1562. interpretations

  1563. is the

  1564. gap theory

  1565. so this

  1566. believes

  1567. that the

  1568. days of

  1569. creation

  1570. are 24

  1571. hours

  1572. solar days

  1573. but

  1574. between

  1575. Genesis 1

  1576. 1 and 2

  1577. and Genesis

  1578. 1 3

  1579. we have

  1580. a long

  1581. we have

  1582. eons of

  1583. history

  1584. that occur

  1585. right

  1586. God created

  1587. the universe

  1588. and then

  1589. actually was

  1590. the fall

  1591. of Satan

  1592. and the

  1593. angels

  1594. that brought

  1595. the earth

  1596. into formlessness

  1597. and voidness

  1598. thereby God

  1599. recreating the

  1600. world in

  1601. six 24

  1602. hour solar

  1603. days in the

  1604. way that we

  1605. experience it

  1606. now and so

  1607. any earlier

  1608. age of

  1609. you know

  1610. any dinosaurs

  1611. or anything

  1612. like that

  1613. that we

  1614. find is

  1615. evidence of

  1616. this earlier

  1617. eons of

  1618. history

  1619. or even

  1620. age of the

  1621. universe

  1622. of the

  1623. earth

  1624. this is all

  1625. contained in

  1626. that gap

  1627. so this was

  1628. actually a pretty

  1629. popular view

  1630. in the early

  1631. 20th century

  1632. it's kind of

  1633. gone out of

  1634. favor because

  1635. a lot of

  1636. there's a lot

  1637. of grammatical

  1638. arguments against

  1639. it

  1640. that there

  1641. really isn't

  1642. a gap

  1643. understood

  1644. in the

  1645. text

  1646. but that

  1647. was a very

  1648. common view

  1649. and there

  1650. are people

  1651. who still

  1652. defend it

  1653. today

  1654. and then

  1655. the last

  1656. of our

  1657. ancient science

  1658. interpretations

  1659. is the

  1660. day age

  1661. theory

  1662. so

  1663. the

  1664. Genesis

  1665. account is

  1666. describing how

  1667. God created

  1668. but they

  1669. understand the

  1670. word day

  1671. not to mean

  1672. 24 hour

  1673. solar day

  1674. but to mean

  1675. day in the

  1676. more generic

  1677. term like

  1678. in the day

  1679. of the Lord

  1680. right

  1681. in the day

  1682. of the Lord

  1683. is not 24 hour

  1684. period right

  1685. it's just this

  1686. period of time

  1687. and they would

  1688. say okay

  1689. we can understand

  1690. the word day

  1691. to mean a period

  1692. of time

  1693. and so each

  1694. one of the

  1695. creation days

  1696. is a long

  1697. age

  1698. but

  1699. the account

  1700. of what goes

  1701. on in that

  1702. age is basically

  1703. how it's described

  1704. so that is

  1705. sort of a

  1706. very common

  1707. view of

  1708. old earth

  1709. creationism

  1710. okay

  1711. alright

  1712. those are the

  1713. ancient science

  1714. interpretations

  1715. those ones are

  1716. trying to take

  1717. the biblical text

  1718. on how

  1719. the

  1720. take the

  1721. biblical text

  1722. and learn how

  1723. creation happened

  1724. and there's

  1725. different ways of

  1726. fitting that with

  1727. modern science

  1728. we now have

  1729. creation poem

  1730. interpretations

  1731. these

  1732. say

  1733. that what

  1734. brings these

  1735. together is that

  1736. there are

  1737. they would believe

  1738. that there are

  1739. figures of speech

  1740. literary conventions

  1741. in the text

  1742. and that

  1743. the text is not

  1744. trying to explain

  1745. to us how

  1746. God created

  1747. as much as

  1748. what God did

  1749. when he created

  1750. and why

  1751. okay

  1752. so views like

  1753. this

  1754. views

  1755. under this category

  1756. would be

  1757. stuff like

  1758. the analogical

  1759. day theory

  1760. this view says

  1761. that the Bible

  1762. is actually using

  1763. analogical language

  1764. to describe God's

  1765. creative activity

  1766. as if he was a

  1767. craftsman in his

  1768. regular work week

  1769. right

  1770. the crowd

  1771. you know

  1772. God the craftsman

  1773. wakes up

  1774. day one he works

  1775. evening and morning

  1776. day two he works

  1777. evening and morning

  1778. and then day seven

  1779. is his sabbath rest

  1780. right

  1781. so just kind of like

  1782. the

  1783. the regular work week

  1784. of a person

  1785. so it's using an

  1786. analogy

  1787. so the days

  1788. in this situation

  1789. would be 24 hour

  1790. solar days

  1791. but they're

  1792. not meant to be

  1793. taken literally

  1794. they're meant to be

  1795. taken as an

  1796. analogy of

  1797. God's activity

  1798. the framework

  1799. view

  1800. is another one

  1801. of these

  1802. creation poem

  1803. interpretations

  1804. they see that

  1805. forming and

  1806. filling pattern

  1807. that we see in

  1808. Genesis 1

  1809. and then we say

  1810. oh

  1811. this framework

  1812. then

  1813. is indicating

  1814. to us

  1815. there's a

  1816. disc chronology

  1817. here

  1818. we're not

  1819. supposed to be

  1820. meant to be

  1821. taking these

  1822. days

  1823. sequence literally

  1824. and so

  1825. that gives

  1826. them a lot

  1827. of play

  1828. in how

  1829. God created

  1830. they're saying

  1831. this is telling

  1832. us what

  1833. but the

  1834. sequence isn't

  1835. meant to be

  1836. taken as a

  1837. history

  1838. it's meant to

  1839. be taken as

  1840. a poem

  1841. or a

  1842. literary convention

  1843. that's supposed

  1844. to be conveying

  1845. what God

  1846. did but

  1847. not exactly

  1848. how he did

  1849. it

  1850. finally

  1851. we have our

  1852. religion only

  1853. interpretations

  1854. these views

  1855. they're connected

  1856. by the belief

  1857. that the

  1858. Genesis narrative

  1859. is not meant

  1860. to be understood

  1861. what God's

  1862. creating

  1863. or

  1864. what God

  1865. did in

  1866. creation

  1867. or even

  1868. how

  1869. not how

  1870. not even

  1871. what

  1872. but just

  1873. who

  1874. created

  1875. and why

  1876. so you're

  1877. not really

  1878. meant to

  1879. take any

  1880. knowledge about

  1881. the natural

  1882. world from

  1883. this first

  1884. chapter

  1885. you're meant

  1886. to learn

  1887. about God

  1888. and so

  1889. they'll point

  1890. to

  1891. for instance

  1892. in the

  1893. proclamation

  1894. day view

  1895. they'll say

  1896. that this

  1897. is God's

  1898. proclamation

  1899. of his

  1900. creative

  1901. act

  1902. in the

  1903. throne

  1904. room

  1905. this is

  1906. him

  1907. describing

  1908. how

  1909. how

  1910. you know

  1911. a view

  1912. of creation

  1913. but in reality

  1914. it happened

  1915. in a completely

  1916. different way

  1917. right

  1918. sort of

  1919. God saying

  1920. this

  1921. sort of like

  1922. Augustine's view

  1923. in a way

  1924. this is what

  1925. is going to

  1926. happen

  1927. and then

  1928. creation happens

  1929. but not in

  1930. that way

  1931. okay

  1932. yeah

  1933. kind of like

  1934. a decree

  1935. another one

  1936. is the

  1937. kingdom

  1938. temple

  1939. view

  1940. where it

  1941. says

  1942. this isn't

  1943. describing

  1944. God's

  1945. creation

  1946. at all

  1947. it's

  1948. describing

  1949. God's

  1950. naming

  1951. of the

  1952. creation

  1953. and their

  1954. purposes

  1955. and functions

  1956. right

  1957. I'm

  1958. separating

  1959. light

  1960. from

  1961. darkness

  1962. light

  1963. is going

  1964. to be

  1965. called

  1966. light

  1967. darkness

  1968. to be

  1969. called

  1970. dark

  1971. the

  1972. luminaries

  1973. are going

  1974. to be

  1975. meant

  1976. for

  1977. signs

  1978. and

  1979. seasons

  1980. animals

  1981. this is

  1982. your

  1983. role

  1984. fish

  1985. this is

  1986. your

  1987. role

  1988. you see

  1989. how

  1990. that

  1991. we

  1992. understand

  1993. in the

  1994. ancient

  1995. naming

  1996. is understood

  1997. as an

  1998. act of

  1999. authority

  2000. and so

  2001. here

  2002. in this

  2003. view

  2004. God

  2005. is

  2006. inaugurating

  2007. his

  2008. kingdom

  2009. his

  2010. temple

  2011. of

  2012. creation

  2013. by

  2014. naming

  2015. everything

  2016. and putting

  2017. everything

  2018. where it

  2019. should

  2020. be

  2021. okay

  2022. and then

  2023. finally

  2024. we have

  2025. the

  2026. alternative

  2027. cosmology

  2028. view

  2029. this

  2030. view

  2031. says

  2032. the

  2033. Moses

  2034. is actually

  2035. borrowing

  2036. elements

  2037. from

  2038. contemporary

  2039. ancient

  2040. near eastern

  2041. creation

  2042. accounts

  2043. to show

  2044. the

  2045. differences

  2046. of the

  2047. God of

  2048. the

  2049. Bible

  2050. and

  2051. why

  2052. God

  2053. created

  2054. so

  2055. instead

  2056. of

  2057. thinking

  2058. about

  2059. the

  2060. what

  2061. and the

  2062. how

  2063. of

  2064. God

  2065. creating

  2066. we're

  2067. supposed

  2068. to be

  2069. looking at

  2070. how

  2071. God

  2072. has no

  2073. equal

  2074. God

  2075. is not

  2076. in conflict

  2077. with anybody

  2078. God

  2079. is

  2080. God

  2081. is creating

  2082. humans

  2083. with dignity

  2084. everything

  2085. is good

  2086. those kinds

  2087. of things

  2088. right

  2089. okay

  2090. that was a

  2091. lot

  2092. right

  2093. that was a

  2094. lot

  2095. lot of

  2096. different

  2097. perlocutions

  2098. with the

  2099. same

  2100. locution

  2101. right

  2102. so

  2103. what do

  2104. we do

  2105. here

  2106. what

  2107. do

  2108. we

  2109. make

  2110. of

  2111. this

  2112. you

  2113. can

  2114. imagine

  2115. if you

  2116. come

  2117. to

  2118. the

  2119. view

  2120. you

  2121. come

  2122. to

  2123. the

  2124. text

  2125. with

  2126. a

  2127. more

  2128. of a

  2129. concordist

  2130. way of

  2131. thinking

  2132. about

  2133. what

  2134. the

  2135. scripture

  2136. is

  2137. meant

  2138. to be

  2139. conveying

  2140. you

  2141. would

  2142. expect

  2143. to

  2144. take

  2145. maybe

  2146. more

  2147. one

  2148. of

  2149. these

  2150. a

  2151. young

  2152. earth

  2153. creationist

  2154. or

  2155. maybe

  2156. an

  2157. ancient

  2158. science

  2159. interpretation

  2160. where

  2161. we're

  2162. trying

  2163. to

  2164. glean

  2165. from

  2166. the

  2167. text

  2168. what

  2169. it

  2170. is

  2171. God

  2172. actually

  2173. did

  2174. in

  2175. creation

  2176. right

  2177. his

  2178. method

  2179. his

  2180. mechanism

  2181. as

  2182. opposed

  2183. to

  2184. maybe

  2185. if

  2186. you

  2187. take

  2188. an

  2189. accommodationist

  2190. view

  2191. maybe

  2192. the

  2193. kingdom

  2194. temple

  2195. view

  2196. or the

  2197. alternative

  2198. cosmology

  2199. view

  2200. would make

  2201. more sense

  2202. to you

  2203. because

  2204. you

  2205. wouldn't

  2206. really

  2207. be

  2208. looking

  2209. for

  2210. Genesis

  2211. 1

  2212. to

  2213. be

  2214. giving

  2215. you

  2216. that

  2217. how

  2218. and

  2219. what

  2220. information

  2221. does that

  2222. make sense

  2223. yeah

  2224. the

  2225. problem

  2226. is that

  2227. if you

  2228. take

  2229. any

  2230. of

  2231. those

  2232. views

  2233. you

  2234. just

  2235. mentioned

  2236. and you

  2237. try to

  2238. make it

  2239. dogma

  2240. I believe

  2241. what

  2242. Herman

  2243. Bobbing

  2244. said

  2245. the

  2246. days

  2247. of

  2248. creation

  2249. were

  2250. God's

  2251. working

  2252. days

  2253. I

  2254. wasn't

  2255. there

  2256. I

  2257. can

  2258. imagine

  2259. all

  2260. kinds

  2261. of

  2262. scenarios

  2263. or

  2264. this

  2265. or

  2266. that

  2267. was

  2268. happening

  2269. but

  2270. I

  2271. wasn't

  2272. there

  2273. yeah

  2274. and

  2275. it's

  2276. really

  2277. not

  2278. salvific

  2279. knowledge

  2280. it's

  2281. just

  2282. telling

  2283. me

  2284. that

  2285. God

  2286. is

  2287. the

  2288. creator

  2289. and

  2290. I'm

  2291. this

  2292. creature

  2293. and

  2294. it's

  2295. not

  2296. really

  2297. salvific

  2298. I

  2299. shouldn't

  2300. make

  2301. it

  2302. dogma

  2303. I

  2304. actually

  2305. was

  2306. going

  2307. to

  2308. mention

  2309. Herman

  2310. Bobbing

  2311. because

  2312. I

  2313. really

  2314. no

  2315. it's

  2316. great

  2317. Herman

  2318. Bobbing

  2319. I

  2320. think

  2321. came

  2322. to

  2323. a

  2324. really

  2325. wise

  2326. conclusion

  2327. which

  2328. is

  2329. to

  2330. say

  2331. we

  2332. read

  2333. the

  2334. text

  2335. these

  2336. are

  2337. working

  2338. days

  2339. what

  2340. does

  2341. that

  2342. mean

  2343. different

  2344. Christians

  2345. are

  2346. going

  2347. to

  2348. disagree

  2349. we

  2350. can

  2351. all

  2352. agree

  2353. on

  2354. that

  2355. God

  2356. is

  2357. the

  2358. creator

  2359. that

  2360. God

  2361. created

  2362. for

  2363. these

  2364. reasons

  2365. sort

  2366. of

  2367. sort

  2368. of

  2369. the

  2370. common

  2371. denominator

  2372. of all

  2373. these

  2374. different

  2375. views

  2376. is

  2377. God

  2378. being

  2379. creator

  2380. creation

  2381. being

  2382. good

  2383. it

  2384. being

  2385. made

  2386. without

  2387. conflict

  2388. etc

  2389. right

  2390. but

  2391. there

  2392. is

  2393. I

  2394. think

  2395. room

  2396. for

  2397. humility

  2398. and

  2399. charity

  2400. here

  2401. okay

  2402. really

  2403. really smart

  2404. people

  2405. over the

  2406. whole

  2407. history

  2408. of

  2409. the

  2410. Christian

  2411. tradition

  2412. have

  2413. disagreed

  2414. on this

  2415. okay

  2416. Thomas Aquinas

  2417. held a

  2418. sort of

  2419. similar view

  2420. to Herman

  2421. Bavinck

  2422. B.B. Warfield

  2423. was a gap

  2424. theorist

  2425. okay

  2426. there were a

  2427. lot of

  2428. old earth

  2429. creationists

  2430. in the

  2431. fundamentals book

  2432. at the start

  2433. of the

  2434. fundamentalist

  2435. movement

  2436. there are a

  2437. lot of

  2438. wise

  2439. and

  2440. virtuous

  2441. young earth

  2442. creationists

  2443. out there

  2444. so I

  2445. think

  2446. we want

  2447. to come

  2448. to this

  2449. with

  2450. charity

  2451. so like

  2452. for instance

  2453. I

  2454. take

  2455. my

  2456. philosophical

  2457. disposition

  2458. is I

  2459. tend to be

  2460. kind of a

  2461. harmonist

  2462. okay

  2463. I

  2464. and of

  2465. course

  2466. I make

  2467. the spectrum

  2468. and of

  2469. course

  2470. my view

  2471. is in

  2472. the middle

  2473. of the

  2474. spectrum

  2475. of course

  2476. right

  2477. but

  2478. yeah

  2479. I tend

  2480. to come

  2481. at this

  2482. in a

  2483. way

  2484. where I

  2485. say

  2486. okay

  2487. I'm

  2488. going to

  2489. look at

  2490. the world

  2491. general revelation

  2492. on its

  2493. terms

  2494. and I'm

  2495. going to

  2496. look at

  2497. special revelation

  2498. God's word

  2499. on its

  2500. terms

  2501. and I

  2502. want to

  2503. understand

  2504. what is it

  2505. that God

  2506. meant me to

  2507. understand

  2508. in this

  2509. text

  2510. what was it

  2511. that the

  2512. original audience

  2513. was meant to

  2514. get from this

  2515. right

  2516. and where I

  2517. find

  2518. tension

  2519. I try to

  2520. work that

  2521. out

  2522. okay

  2523. and so for

  2524. me

  2525. what

  2526. view of

  2527. the days

  2528. of creation

  2529. is compelling

  2530. I find

  2531. the

  2532. analogical

  2533. day

  2534. theory

  2535. to be

  2536. pretty

  2537. compelling

  2538. describing

  2539. God's

  2540. creative

  2541. act

  2542. what

  2543. God

  2544. did

  2545. but in

  2546. ways

  2547. in the

  2548. sense

  2549. of an

  2550. analogy

  2551. just like

  2552. a workman

  2553. went out

  2554. and created

  2555. this is

  2556. God's

  2557. work week

  2558. okay

  2559. and it's

  2560. going to

  2561. be different

  2562. than our

  2563. work week

  2564. but we

  2565. can understand

  2566. that God

  2567. is the

  2568. one who

  2569. created

  2570. yeah

  2571. before the

  2572. luminaries

  2573. and then

  2574. he created

  2575. the sun

  2576. on day

  2577. four

  2578. after the

  2579. plants

  2580. yeah

  2581. so

  2582. so

  2583. this is

  2584. not

  2585. so if

  2586. you might

  2587. if you look

  2588. back into

  2589. the church

  2590. into church

  2591. history

  2592. you might

  2593. be wondering

  2594. why did

  2595. Augustine

  2596. and Athanasius

  2597. and Origen

  2598. take this

  2599. allegorical

  2600. view

  2601. of

  2602. instantaneous

  2603. creation

  2604. and it's

  2605. these exact

  2606. questions

  2607. there's

  2608. nothing new

  2609. under the

  2610. sun

  2611. the ancient

  2612. church

  2613. also looked

  2614. at it

  2615. and said

  2616. man

  2617. light

  2618. is before

  2619. the sun

  2620. that doesn't

  2621. make any

  2622. sense

  2623. but why

  2624. would God

  2625. turn on

  2626. the light

  2627. and then

  2628. turn off

  2629. the light

  2630. on and

  2631. off

  2632. for evening

  2633. and morning

  2634. when there

  2635. isn't a

  2636. sun

  2637. when we

  2638. understand

  2639. the morning

  2640. to be the

  2641. rising of

  2642. the sun

  2643. so you

  2644. see

  2645. they all

  2646. had the

  2647. exact same

  2648. questions

  2649. we have

  2650. and different

  2651. people are

  2652. going to be

  2653. able to

  2654. explain those

  2655. in different

  2656. ways

  2657. so I'm not

  2658. trying to say

  2659. there's only

  2660. one answer

  2661. but the

  2662. same issues

  2663. why does

  2664. day seven

  2665. not have

  2666. an evening

  2667. and a

  2668. morning

  2669. why is

  2670. day two

  2671. creation

  2672. event

  2673. starting

  2674. with there

  2675. was no

  2676. plant

  2677. in the

  2678. field

  2679. and human

  2680. beings

  2681. are being

  2682. created

  2683. but plants

  2684. were made

  2685. on day

  2686. three

  2687. and this

  2688. is day

  2689. six

  2690. so

  2691. for these

  2692. reasons

  2693. textual

  2694. reasons

  2695. different

  2696. people over

  2697. time have

  2698. taken different

  2699. views

  2700. but

  2701. ultimately

  2702. I'm not

  2703. here to

  2704. say

  2705. you should

  2706. take my

  2707. view

  2708. if you

  2709. want to

  2710. learn more

  2711. about my

  2712. view

  2713. you can

  2714. read

  2715. see

  2716. John

  2717. Collins

  2718. book

  2719. reading

  2720. Genesis

  2721. well

  2722. if you

  2723. want to

  2724. learn

  2725. about

  2726. day

  2727. age

  2728. you can

  2729. read

  2730. Hugh

  2731. Ross's

  2732. books

  2733. if you

  2734. want to

  2735. learn

  2736. about

  2737. the

  2738. patristic

  2739. views

  2740. you have

  2741. the early

  2742. Christian

  2743. readings

  2744. of

  2745. Genesis

  2746. 1

  2747. there's

  2748. a lot

  2749. of great

  2750. books out

  2751. there

  2752. lost world

  2753. of

  2754. Genesis

  2755. 1

  2756. by

  2757. John

  2758. Walton

  2759. that will

  2760. give you

  2761. the

  2762. kingdom

  2763. temple

  2764. view

  2765. and so

  2766. for

  2767. answers in

  2768. Genesis

  2769. if you

  2770. want to

  2771. learn about

  2772. young

  2773. creationism

  2774. there you

  2775. go

  2776. Meredith

  2777. Kline

  2778. there's a

  2779. lot of

  2780. great

  2781. research

  2782. out there

  2783. to learn

  2784. but I

  2785. hope we

  2786. can come

  2787. to this

  2788. with a

  2789. sense of

  2790. humility

  2791. understanding

  2792. that we're

  2793. in a

  2794. great

  2795. company

  2796. of people

  2797. who all

  2798. disagreed

  2799. with each

  2800. other

  2801. and are

  2802. just

  2803. trying to

  2804. do

  2805. justice

  2806. as they

  2807. see it

  2808. to the

  2809. creation

  2810. narrative

  2811. right

  2812. okay

  2813. yeah

  2814. any

  2815. questions

  2816. I'm

  2817. done

  2818. so

  2819. questions

  2820. question

  2821. time

  2822. justice

  2823. lay it

  2824. on me

  2825. I have a

  2826. couple

  2827. questions

  2828. I'm curious

  2829. when you

  2830. think about

  2831. kind of

  2832. the

  2833. epistemology

  2834. behind

  2835. what you

  2836. do in

  2837. science

  2838. and how

  2839. you

  2840. approach

  2841. scripture

  2842. looking at

  2843. the world

  2844. scientifically

  2845. we know

  2846. the scientific

  2847. model

  2848. has

  2849. certainty

  2850. attached to

  2851. it

  2852. right

  2853. yeah

  2854. when we

  2855. read

  2856. scripture

  2857. it seems

  2858. like there

  2859. is uncertainty

  2860. there too

  2861. I mean

  2862. you see

  2863. Jesus'

  2864. disciples

  2865. are uncertain

  2866. about a lot

  2867. of things

  2868. you know

  2869. Job

  2870. and other

  2871. prophets

  2872. but then

  2873. on the other

  2874. hand

  2875. you have

  2876. people like

  2877. Luke saying

  2878. you know

  2879. I'm

  2880. like you're

  2881. the theophilus

  2882. this is

  2883. so that

  2884. you can have

  2885. certainty

  2886. about the things

  2887. that you've

  2888. been taught

  2889. so I'm

  2890. wondering

  2891. how do you

  2892. think about

  2893. certainty

  2894. versus uncertainty

  2895. you look at

  2896. general revelation

  2897. through different

  2898. lens

  2899. than you

  2900. look at

  2901. scripture

  2902. or do you

  2903. find that

  2904. they're

  2905. more similar

  2906. than that

  2907. so I

  2908. tend to have

  2909. a very low

  2910. view

  2911. of

  2912. the

  2913. ability of

  2914. human beings

  2915. to gain

  2916. certainty

  2917. my

  2918. this has

  2919. been

  2920. driven to me

  2921. by being a

  2922. scientist

  2923. okay

  2924. we have this

  2925. popular view

  2926. of science

  2927. those are the

  2928. people who

  2929. know things

  2930. but for all

  2931. those of us

  2932. who are

  2933. scientifically

  2934. trained

  2935. we know

  2936. that basically

  2937. what we

  2938. learn is

  2939. how often

  2940. we're all

  2941. wrong about

  2942. everything

  2943. and how many

  2944. different ways

  2945. there is to

  2946. explain different

  2947. phenomenon

  2948. and so

  2949. a lot of

  2950. times we come

  2951. to things

  2952. with sort of

  2953. like you said

  2954. a particular

  2955. model in mind

  2956. sort of a

  2957. hypothetical model

  2958. hypothesis about

  2959. what is going

  2960. on and we

  2961. take the

  2962. information we get

  2963. and we test it

  2964. against it

  2965. and we try

  2966. to see if it

  2967. fits or doesn't

  2968. fit but a lot

  2969. of times it

  2970. doesn't fit

  2971. and it doesn't

  2972. mean we toss

  2973. out the model

  2974. sometimes it

  2975. doesn't fit

  2976. and we're just

  2977. like this is

  2978. strange

  2979. right

  2980. and I think

  2981. this is also

  2982. true of

  2983. scripture

  2984. I mean I

  2985. think when

  2986. it comes to

  2987. certainty

  2988. there are some

  2989. things that are

  2990. very clear and

  2991. certain in

  2992. scripture

  2993. right

  2994. the resurrection

  2995. of Jesus

  2996. like there's

  2997. no ambiguity

  2998. about that

  2999. right

  3000. the

  3001. historicity

  3002. of the

  3003. apostle Paul

  3004. like these

  3005. are things

  3006. that we're

  3007. not really

  3008. arguing about

  3009. but there

  3010. is in

  3011. prophecy

  3012. in a lot

  3013. of the ancient

  3014. narratives there

  3015. are things that

  3016. they just don't

  3017. give us all

  3018. the information

  3019. it's kind of

  3020. known that

  3021. the Hebraic

  3022. Bible gives

  3023. you sort of

  3024. just blow by

  3025. blow action

  3026. a lot of

  3027. times and

  3028. doesn't really

  3029. give you a lot

  3030. of detail

  3031. like what was

  3032. this person

  3033. thinking

  3034. am I meant

  3035. to understand

  3036. this as being

  3037. a good act

  3038. or a bad

  3039. act

  3040. right

  3041. is God

  3042. telling me

  3043. that this

  3044. is something

  3045. I should

  3046. model

  3047. or is this

  3048. something I

  3049. shouldn't

  3050. model

  3051. and a lot

  3052. of times

  3053. wisdom

  3054. is found

  3055. in we

  3056. as the

  3057. collective

  3058. church

  3059. and collective

  3060. interpreters

  3061. working through

  3062. these issues

  3063. together

  3064. with the aid

  3065. of history

  3066. and other

  3067. elements

  3068. biblical

  3069. understanding

  3070. biblical

  3071. languages

  3072. etc

  3073. we can work

  3074. on these

  3075. to gain

  3076. a better

  3077. grasp of

  3078. certainty

  3079. but I think

  3080. we need to

  3081. have an

  3082. open hand

  3083. on those

  3084. things

  3085. that

  3086. there is

  3087. widespread

  3088. disagreement

  3089. on

  3090. where we

  3091. all understand

  3092. this is

  3093. hard

  3094. we don't

  3095. really know

  3096. exactly how

  3097. to understand

  3098. this

  3099. and those

  3100. things

  3101. we need to

  3102. have a

  3103. closed fist

  3104. maybe that

  3105. sounds bad

  3106. but a

  3107. firm grasp

  3108. on those

  3109. things that

  3110. are clear

  3111. to everybody

  3112. those things

  3113. that are

  3114. nice in

  3115. orthodoxy

  3116. those things

  3117. that we can

  3118. describe in

  3119. creeds and

  3120. confessions

  3121. that are the

  3122. essentials of the

  3123. faith as

  3124. Raul would

  3125. say

  3126. that have

  3127. salvific

  3128. import

  3129. right

  3130. but for

  3131. these other

  3132. things I

  3133. think we

  3134. can take

  3135. a more

  3136. humility

  3137. humble

  3138. approach

  3139. alright that's

  3140. it guys

  3141. we gotta get

  3142. downstairs to

  3143. worship

  3144. I hope

  3145. that we

  3146. eventually get

  3147. the idea that

  3148. we can love

  3149. and worship

  3150. God from

  3151. these days

  3152. whatever they

  3153. mean

  3154. thanks guys

  3155. thanks so

  3156. much