Sermon
Doctrine of Creation
Publisher transcript
Transcript
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Alrighty, guys.
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It is 9 o'clock,
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so why don't we jump in
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!
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Lord, we ask that you would bless this time
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and help us all to grow closer to you.
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In Jesus' name, amen.
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Amen.
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Alright.
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Well, we're back again
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after a snow hiatus.
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And you may be wondering,
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why are we back again?
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Didn't we spend the entire last class
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talking about how everybody disagrees
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about what Genesis 1 says?
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Why are we even talking about it anymore, right?
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And if that's how you're feeling,
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I'd like to start the class
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by giving you a word of exhortation.
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And that is,
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if any interpretation we have of Scripture,
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anything that we advocate for,
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makes us feel like we can ignore Scripture
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or avoid it,
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or avoid wrestling with the text,
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then I submit to you that it must be wrong.
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If you're adopting an interpretation
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that says,
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I can just ignore this part of Scripture,
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I don't have to read it,
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I don't have to think about it,
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then I think you should reconsider.
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Because our interpretations
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shouldn't be licensed to dismiss God's Word.
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And ultimately,
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our job is to sit under the teaching of Scripture
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as a good audience,
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even if we're not sure
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of every aspect of the text,
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every part of it, right?
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And even if we all disagree
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about parts of the text,
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it doesn't mean we don't keep on coming back
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and trying to learn
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and trying to understand.
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So with that exhortation,
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why don't we start by reading
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the portion of our text
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that we're going to be considering today.
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Can somebody read for me?
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Yeah.
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Oh, here we are.
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You have your hand up.
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Can somebody read for me
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Genesis 1,
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verses 20 through 25?
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Yeah, yeah.
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I think that's page 1.
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20 through 25.
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20 through 25.
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And God said,
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let the waters bring forth abundantly
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as it was good as it was good as it was said.
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which the waters brought forth abundantly after their kind,
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and every winged fowl after his kind.
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And God saw that it was good.
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And God blessed them, saying,
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Be fruitful and multiply,
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fill the waters in the sea,
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and let fowl multiply in the earth.
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And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
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Yep, through 25.
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And God said,
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Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind,
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cattle and creeping thing,
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and beasts of the earth after his kind.
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And it was so.
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And God made the beasts of the earth after his kind,
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and cattle after their kind,
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and everything that creepeth upon the earth after his kind.
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And God saw that it was good.
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All right.
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Does anyone see sort of a recurring pattern in these verses?
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After its kind.
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You guys see that?
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God made the sea creatures after their kind,
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and the birds after their kind,
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and the land creatures,
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and the swarming creatures after their kind.
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I find that,
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according to their kind repetition,
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really intriguing.
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What could these phrases be referring to?
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Well,
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I mean,
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the most obvious explanation of these
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is basically just the observation
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that
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lambs give birth to lambs,
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and grapevines produce grapevines,
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you know.
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So it's not really meant to be communicating to us
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what kinds are.
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just saying that,
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you know,
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like things give birth to like things.
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And that there's diversity.
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Yeah.
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It's kind.
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Right,
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exactly.
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I actually think,
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given that the original audience
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of Genesis 1
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were
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farmers,
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shepherds,
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people who are
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really super familiar with animal husbandry,
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this would be
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not really that
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groundbreaking
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if that was the only meaning.
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You know?
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I think most,
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these people were
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very familiar with the fact that
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lambs give birth to lambs,
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et cetera.
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So,
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I think it would kind of be doing
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injustice to the text
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to restrict it
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to merely that meaning.
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So,
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what additionally
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could it be referring to?
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Well,
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the word kind here
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means something like
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categories
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or varieties of things,
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indicating
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that the text
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is
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drawing on
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that
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there seems to be
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something behind
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our sort of
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our common sense observation
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that there are
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different ways
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of being.
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Hi,
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sorry,
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I'm like...
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No,
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don't worry about it.
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No,
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just the beginning.
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We're just talking about
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kinds,
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you know,
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according to their kinds
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in Genesis
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day five
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and day six.
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Yeah.
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So,
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there are
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different ways
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of being
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that we can
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justifiably
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group together
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and separate.
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Okay?
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Now,
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what do I mean by that?
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Well,
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apple trees
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seem to us
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to be different
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kinds of things
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than a lion,
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right?
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But we would still
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group together
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maple trees
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with the apple trees
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and we would group
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lions with tigers,
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right?
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There seems to be
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sort of these
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different ways
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of existing
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that we can
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just see with our eyes
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like,
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oh,
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that is like this.
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We put them together
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even though they're not
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identical.
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There's diversity
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among the kinds
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but there are
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different kinds
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of things,
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right?
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If anyone here
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is familiar
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with the works
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of Plato,
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this may be
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reminding you
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of his concept
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of the ideas
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and some
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have even noted
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that the,
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there's an interesting
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parallel
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between the Greek
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translation
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in the Septuagint
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of these passages
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that we just read
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and the works
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of Aristotle
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in Greek
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where he is
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attempting to
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describe what he
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believes are like
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the fixity
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of the forms,
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like how every
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individual species
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of thing
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is its own thing
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and it's,
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you know,
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it has to do
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with substance
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and accents
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if you're familiar
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with Greek
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metaphysics.
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And he's often
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in those passages
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in Aristotle,
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he's using
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a very similar
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kind of language
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to the Greek
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translation
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of these passages.
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But Aristotle
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is producing
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what I think
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could be accurately
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called like a
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scientific account
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of these different
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kinds
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and he's giving
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philosophical reasons
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for the separation
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of categories
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of things
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and categories
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of being.
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And I don't think
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that's actually
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what scripture
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is doing here
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but I think
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because scripture
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is not making
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philosophical arguments,
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it's not making
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a scientific argument
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here,
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it's distating
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a truth.
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But I think
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beyond all that
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there is
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definitely here
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an affirmation
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that there are
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different ways
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of being
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and there's
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variety among them.
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Okay?
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Different kinds
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of existence.
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So
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where
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do these
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ways of being
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or kinds
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come from?
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What was that?
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From God?
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Oh yeah,
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that was good.
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Yeah.
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From God himself.
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Right?
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Of course.
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Like all things
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they come from God.
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Right?
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We learn
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class one
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everything
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was created
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ex nihilo.
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There is
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God
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and everything
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that God created.
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And so if we're
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thinking about
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where did all this
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different ways of being,
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these kinds of existences,
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these different
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forms you might call them,
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where do they come from?
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Well they have to come
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from God.
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But let's consider this.
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When you and I
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are creative
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we tend to imagine
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that
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we're truly
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generating
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concepts
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and images
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from nothing.
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Right?
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We're like
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we're truly original.
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We just
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we create
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from the nothingness
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that is in our mind.
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Right?
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But actually
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any
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experienced artist
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will tell you that
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our creative activity
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is more of a blending.
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A blending
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or appropriating
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of the reality
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around us.
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Right?
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An artist
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first goes out
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and feeds
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their imagination
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with information
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from our senses
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and then
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they can go back
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and recombine
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and reimagine them
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as their own works.
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Right?
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Not to say that
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artists aren't creative
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only that they have to
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draw on existing reality
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and twist them
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and move them
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and form them
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into something new.
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Right?
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But they're not
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truly original.
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Actually
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J.R.R. Tolkien
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called this work
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sub-creation
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because none of us
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can say
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that we actually
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create proper.
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We're always
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whenever we do
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something creative
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we're always
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sub-creating
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drawing on
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the things
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that already exist.
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But if we think
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about this
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that can't actually
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be true of God.
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Right?
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There is nothing
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for God to go out
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and observe
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and feed his imagination
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like
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I think I'm going to create
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let me go out
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and see what's out there.
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You know?
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No.
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God doesn't have
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there is nothing
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outside of God
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to base his creation on.
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And some
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have attempted
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to say that
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God created
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based on his
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foreknowledge
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of what would be
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created
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much like
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some say
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that God
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elects people
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based on their
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free choice of him.
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Right?
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So if you're
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familiar with
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the doctrine of grace
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we talked about this
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a few weeks ago
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not a few weeks ago
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it was actually
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like a few months ago
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my goodness.
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Anyways
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the idea that
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oh
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someone chooses
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God
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in their life
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freely
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and God
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from time immemorial
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knows that
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and says
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therefore I'm going
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to elect this person
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because he chose me.
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Right?
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And so a similar
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sort of activity
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is thought to
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some people
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have thought
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well
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God has
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perfect foreknowledge
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so he knows
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what will be
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what will exist
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in creation
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and so he
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creates
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based on his
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foreknowledge
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of what will be
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existing.
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However
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Stephen Charnock
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makes short work
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of this view
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observing
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he made all
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things in wisdom
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how can this
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be imagined
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if the things
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known
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were the cause
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of his knowledge
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and so before
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his knowledge
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and therefore
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before his action
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God would not
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then be the first
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in the order
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of knowing agents
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because he would
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not act by knowledge
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but act before
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he knew
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and know
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after he acted.
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You see that
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it's kind of
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ridiculous.
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So God
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can't create
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based on his
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foreknowledge
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of what would
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exist.
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That creates
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a contradiction
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where the thing
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that exists
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exists before
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God creates it
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so he acts
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before he knows
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what he's creating
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and he knows
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what he did
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after he did it.
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Yeah.
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If you're confused
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everyone should be
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confused
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because it doesn't
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make any sense.
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So no
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our creator
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has made everything
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in keeping with
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what are called
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by theologians
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his divine ideas.
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These divine ideas
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are the patterns
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of all created
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things that exist
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in his mind.
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Now
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this is actually
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was developed
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in the early church
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as a critique
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of Platonism
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and Aristotelianism.
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So the idea was
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if you're familiar
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with Plato
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you know
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there are
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different kinds
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of trees
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right
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but they're all
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trees
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and there's
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this thing
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called
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tree-ness
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right
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there's this
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idea of the tree
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the ideal of the tree
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the form of the tree
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and this idea
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of the tree
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this tree-ness
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exists
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in this realm
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called the realm
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of the ideas
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and this is where
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all the concrete
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or abstract objects
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exist
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anyways
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in Christianity
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we believe
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that there is
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nothing else
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eternal
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outside of God
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right
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and so
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based on texts
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like here in Genesis
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and our common sense
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observation
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that there are
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there does seem
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to be something
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behind this kind
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idea
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or form idea
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the earliest Christians
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said no
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these are actually
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they're not in their
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own eternal realm
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of abstract objects
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they're in God
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these are God's ideas
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it's in God's mind
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right
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and they call these
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divine ideas
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now are these ideas
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pure inventions
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totally new
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based on nothing
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you know
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some would say
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that this must be true
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for God to be free
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in his creation
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that he had to have
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just like
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this
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right
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you know
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tree
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but
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most
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most theologians
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actually
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the majority
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of the church
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has actually
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viewed these
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divine ideas
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of creation
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that God
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created
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based these
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on himself
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that they are
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they are
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reflections
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of aspects
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of God's being
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because God
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himself
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is the fullness
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of being
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right
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this is the view
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that was pioneered
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by origin
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and Augustine
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and affirmed
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and modified
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throughout church
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history
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by John of Damascus
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Anselm
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Thomas Aquinas
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Francis Turretin
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and many
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many others
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however
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like a lot
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of things
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I like
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how Herman
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Bavink
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puts it
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in summary
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he says
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God's ideas
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are absolutely
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original
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they arise
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from his own
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being
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they are
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eternal
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and immutable
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indeed
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they are
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one with
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his own
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being
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the ideas
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in God
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are the very
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being of God
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in so far
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as this being
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is the pattern
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of created
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things
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and can be
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expressed
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and modeled
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in finite
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creatures
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every creature
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is a revelation
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of God
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and participates
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in God's
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being
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the nature
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of this
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participation
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is not
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such that
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creatures
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are modifications
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of the divine
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being
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or that they
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have in some
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realistic sense
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receive this
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divine being
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into themselves
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but every
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creature
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has its own
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distinct being
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because in
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its existence
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it is an
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exemplification
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of the divine
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being
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the wisdom
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of God
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is manifest
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in the creation
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ordering
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guidance
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and government
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of all things
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you guys
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catch that
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in
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in virtue
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of being
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an exemplification
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of God
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in some way
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all of creation
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can be truly
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said to be
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God's
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self-revelation
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that means
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that every time
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you walk outside
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and look
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at a piece
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of moss
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or a robin
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eating on the lawn
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or the mushrooms
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dotting a log
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you are in
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some sense
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receiving a
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revelation
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of God
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you're learning
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something about
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God
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he is telling
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you something
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about himself
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the oxaladdle
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the quivering
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aspen
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the secretive owl
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are all saying
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behold your maker
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how sad
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that we often
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walk by the
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outside world
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without appreciating
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the central
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aspect of it
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Raul you had
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your hand
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out
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even
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you pointed
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out
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the algae
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and nature
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but also
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the building
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of cities
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and civilizations
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and having
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governments
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that's all
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from God
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yeah
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all of that
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yeah
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I think
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and I'm not
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this is actually
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outside of my purview
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because
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I'm not
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I'm not going to be
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teaching the image
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of God
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class
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that's going to be
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Pastor Nick
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but I think
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you're right
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I think
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the works
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of human beings
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the work
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our art
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our architecture
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our organization
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our reasoning
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our science
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all that stuff
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is actually
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reflections of God
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through the medium
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of the human mind
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so the human mind
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is a reflection of God
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and therefore
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our works
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are therefore
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like secondary reflections
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of God's mind
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yeah
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exactly
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yeah
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Richard
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so
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clearly
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creation
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ex nihilo
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would exclude
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the notion
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that
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God
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creates
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everything
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out of
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himself
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but does it
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exclude
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the notion
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that God
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creates
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everything
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out of
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his ideas
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no
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no
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so the idea
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here is
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God
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as an analogy
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the analogy
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is
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before we
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make something
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we have an idea
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of it in our mind
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think of it like
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a blueprint
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right
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we have a blueprint
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of a building
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that we're going
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to make
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the blueprint
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isn't the building
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the blueprint
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is what the building
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is going to be
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right
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the form of it
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the idea of it
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in the same way
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God
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prior to his
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creation of the world
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has ideas
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of what
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he's going to create
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and what those
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ideas are
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what he ends up
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actualizing
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creating
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is based
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on himself
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right
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the ways in which
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he can be
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imitated
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in a finite mode
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right
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it's the finitude
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that is the
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important part here
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right
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none of us
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none of
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no part of creation
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is like
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this is the
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divine
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you know
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like
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it's
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no no no
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this is reflecting
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something about God
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it's not all of God
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does that make sense
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nothing finite
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can ever encompass
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all of God
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but
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does that make sense
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what we're getting
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out of there
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yeah
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so
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if
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all of creation
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is a self-revelation
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of God
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this kind of
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brings up a
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perplexing question
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what do we make
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of all those
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aspects of creation
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that make us
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wince
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that make us what
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wince
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you know
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make us
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kind of shudder
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what do we make
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of the seemingly
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long history
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of predation
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and death
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in the natural world
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including the extinction
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of all kinds of creatures
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like the majestic
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dinosaur
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and the funky
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trilobite
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ultimately
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we're asking
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the question
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how fallen
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is nature
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if creation
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is a self-revelation
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of God
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what are we
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reasonably expected
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to be able to learn
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from God
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from nature
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and how corrupted
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has it been
-
by the fall
-
one view
-
is actually
-
that the natural world
-
has been
-
comprehensively
-
affected by the fall
-
of man
-
that every kind
-
of natural evil
-
as we might
-
understand it
-
is attributable
-
to humanity's
-
primal disobedience
-
this view
-
is often
-
a distinguishing mark
-
of young earth
-
creationism
-
postulating that
-
predation
-
and animal death
-
per se
-
are results
-
of the fall
-
of man
-
and therefore
-
cannot predate
-
humanity
-
since the publication
-
of the Genesis flood
-
in 1961
-
the history
-
of predation
-
and extinction
-
as seen in the fossils
-
is actually explained
-
by a global flood
-
that produced
-
the world
-
as we know it today
-
but
-
this view
-
is actually
-
a little bit more
-
I mean
-
this general view
-
is more ancient
-
than that
-
it's
-
the view
-
that nature
-
has been severely
-
affected by the fall
-
is actually espoused
-
by John Calvin
-
he says
-
that fleas
-
caterpillars
-
and other
-
noxious insects
-
are penalties
-
of the fall
-
so the relevant
-
passages in scripture
-
that are often cited
-
are the descriptions
-
of animal diet
-
in Genesis 1
-
the curses
-
in Genesis 3
-
the prophecy
-
of Isaiah 11
-
verses 6-9
-
and Paul's
-
discourse
-
in Romans 8
-
about creation
-
so let's go through
-
some of these
-
Genesis 1
-
29-30
-
says
-
after the creation
-
of man and animals
-
and God said
-
behold
-
I have given you
-
every plant
-
yielding seed
-
that is on the face
-
of all the earth
-
and every tree
-
with seed in its fruit
-
you shall have them
-
for food
-
and to every beast
-
of the earth
-
and every bird
-
of the heavens
-
and everything
-
that creeps on the earth
-
everything that has
-
the breath of life
-
I have given
-
every green plant
-
for food
-
and it was so
-
this seems like
-
a pretty clear
-
prohibition
-
on carnivorous activity
-
prior to the fall
-
and it's only enhanced
-
by the prophecies
-
found in Isaiah 11
-
6-9
-
where he says
-
the wolf
-
shall dwell
-
with the lamb
-
and the leopard
-
shall lie down
-
with the young goat
-
and the calf
-
and the lion
-
and the fatted calf
-
together
-
and a little child
-
shall lead them
-
the cow
-
and the bear
-
shall graze
-
the young
-
shall lie down
-
together
-
and the lion
-
shall eat straw
-
like the ox
-
the nursing child
-
shall play
-
over the holes
-
of the cobra
-
and the weaned child
-
shall put his hand
-
on the adder's den
-
they shall not hurt
-
or destroy
-
in all my holy mountain
-
for the earth
-
shall be full
-
of the knowledge
-
of the Lord
-
as the waters
-
covers the sea
-
so here
-
the predatory animals
-
are seen to be
-
restored
-
in this view
-
to their prior
-
vegetarianism
-
in the new creation
-
showing that
-
predation
-
must have been
-
a result of the fall
-
and that nature
-
is in fact
-
currently cursed
-
Genesis 3
-
recounts
-
God's curse
-
on Adam
-
saying
-
because you have
-
listened to the voice
-
of your wife
-
and have eaten
-
of the tree
-
of which I commanded
-
you
-
you shall not
-
eat of it
-
curse is the ground
-
because of you
-
in pain
-
you shall eat of it
-
all the days
-
of your life
-
thorns and thistles
-
shall bring forth
-
for you
-
and you shall eat
-
the plants
-
of the field
-
by the sweat
-
of your face
-
you shall eat bread
-
till you return
-
to the ground
-
for out of it
-
you were taken
-
for you are dust
-
and to dust
-
you shall return
-
biologist
-
Dr. Gordon Wilson
-
one of the people
-
I think is
-
one of the best
-
proponents of this
-
view of a cursed nature
-
and
-
simultaneously
-
the creator
-
of an excellent
-
nature documentary
-
called
-
The Right and the Dance
-
if you're able
-
to watch it
-
you should watch it
-
it's great
-
I mean all nature
-
documentaries are awesome
-
but this is great
-
he comments
-
on that work
-
that documentary
-
that the curse
-
is manifest
-
when looking closely
-
at these elephant seals
-
in this case
-
the male domination
-
of the cows
-
the accidental crushing
-
of calves
-
and violent
-
territorial battles
-
between males
-
are on full display
-
this is a powerful
-
reminder that the creation
-
though impressive
-
is truly fallen
-
because of man's sin
-
right
-
he also
-
Dr. Wilson
-
also connects
-
this curse
-
to Paul's commentary
-
on the fallenness
-
of the world
-
in Romans 8
-
many of you
-
are probably familiar
-
with that
-
Paul says
-
for I consider
-
that the sufferings
-
of this present time
-
are not worth comparing
-
with the glory
-
that is to be revealed
-
to us
-
for the creation
-
waits with eager longing
-
for the revealing
-
of the sons of God
-
for the creation
-
was subjected
-
to futility
-
not willingly
-
but because of him
-
who subjected it
-
in hope
-
that the creation
-
itself
-
will be set free
-
from its bondage
-
to corruption
-
and obtain the freedom
-
of the glory
-
of the children of God
-
for we know
-
that the whole creation
-
has been groaning
-
together in the pains
-
of childbirth
-
until now
-
and not only the creation
-
but we ourselves
-
who have the first fruits
-
of the spirit
-
groan inwardly
-
as we wait eagerly
-
for adoption as sons
-
the redemption
-
of our bodies
-
for in this hope
-
we were saved
-
now hope
-
that is seen
-
is not hope
-
for what
-
who hopes
-
for what he sees
-
but if we hope
-
for what we do not see
-
we wait for it
-
with patience
-
Wilson
-
Dr. Wilson again
-
speaking of venomous snakes
-
observes that
-
the difference here
-
is that venomous snakes
-
curse condition
-
negatively impacts
-
human health
-
and welfare
-
especially in tropical countries
-
as we profiled
-
these deadly snakes
-
and our adversarial
-
relationship with them
-
throughout the world history
-
we wanted to highlight
-
the hope of the gospel
-
not only does God
-
reconcile man
-
to himself
-
through the life
-
death
-
burial
-
resurrection
-
and ascension
-
of Jesus Christ
-
but the whole creation
-
will be liberated
-
from its bondage
-
to corruption
-
quoting Romans 8
-
so
-
you can see
-
that altogether
-
this view
-
can support
-
the idea
-
of a creation
-
that is bound
-
in corruption
-
as exemplified
-
in predation
-
venomous animals
-
and animal death
-
generally
-
so this is one view
-
of how fallen
-
nature is
-
in contrast
-
another view
-
is that creation
-
as we have received it
-
is now
-
even now
-
still very good
-
as God declares
-
at the end of the creation account
-
they would say
-
that predation
-
animal death
-
even venomous animals
-
are a part
-
of this good creation
-
and that it is
-
the fallenness of men
-
that restricts us
-
from being able
-
to fully appreciate
-
the breadth
-
of God's works
-
among these proponents
-
would be
-
figures like
-
Augustine
-
Basil of Caesarea
-
Thomas Aquinas
-
William Paley
-
to name just a few
-
in fact
-
this is
-
if I had to
-
survey
-
church history
-
generally
-
this seems to be
-
the majority view
-
in the church
-
an excellent
-
modern proponent
-
of this view
-
would be
-
scientist
-
and Old Testament
-
scholar
-
Dr. C. John Collins
-
I'm a huge fan
-
love Dr. Collins
-
who in a chapter
-
in his book
-
Science and Faith
-
Friend or Foes
-
takes up this challenge
-
he points out
-
that when we look
-
at the supposed
-
prohibition
-
on predation
-
in Genesis 1
-
that there is
-
a curious omission
-
from the list
-
of animals
-
who are meant
-
to eat vegetation
-
did you guys catch it?
-
let's see
-
verse 30 says
-
and to every beast
-
of the earth
-
and every bird
-
of the heavens
-
and everything
-
that creeps
-
on the earth
-
everything that
-
has the breath
-
of life
-
I have given
-
every green plant
-
for food
-
you guys notice
-
there's no mention
-
of aquatic life
-
there?
-
aquatic
-
there's no mention
-
of aquatic life
-
so
-
at the very least
-
if this is a prohibition
-
on predation
-
it doesn't seem
-
to be a blanket
-
prohibition
-
of predation
-
because
-
it does not
-
encompass
-
the
-
aquatic animals
-
many of which
-
as you may know
-
eat other things
-
and the
-
ancient people
-
would know that too
-
and further
-
he points out
-
that the prophecy
-
in Isaiah 11
-
showing the lion
-
eating straw
-
like an ox
-
is actually
-
sandwiched
-
between two sections
-
discussing the turning
-
of all the Gentile
-
nations to Jesus
-
suggesting
-
it actually
-
might be
-
more properly
-
understood
-
to be a poetic
-
representation
-
of the peace
-
between Jew
-
and Gentile
-
a result
-
that would be
-
just as startling
-
as lions
-
and lambs
-
laying peacefully
-
together
-
more importantly
-
he points
-
to those passages
-
in scripture
-
like Psalm 104
-
that seem
-
to glorify God
-
for the predation
-
of his creatures
-
we read here
-
verse 19
-
he made the moon
-
to mark the seasons
-
the sun knows
-
it's time for setting
-
you make darkness
-
and it is night
-
when all the beasts
-
of the forest
-
creep about
-
the young lions
-
roar for their prey
-
seeking their food
-
from God
-
when the sun rises
-
they steal away
-
and lie down
-
in their dens
-
man goes out
-
to his work
-
and his labor
-
until the evening
-
oh Lord
-
how manifold
-
are your works
-
in wisdom
-
have you made them all
-
the earth
-
is full
-
of your creatures
-
so proponents
-
of this
-
we would say
-
we surely
-
have to include
-
these passages
-
into our view
-
of creation as well
-
so how do we
-
balance those
-
and as far as
-
the curse
-
in Genesis 3
-
is concerned
-
he would argue
-
that Dr. Collins
-
would say
-
that these are
-
properly understood
-
to be judgments
-
on man alone
-
and that thorns
-
and thistles
-
are going to be
-
God's means
-
for punishing Adam
-
not that
-
they are now
-
going to exist
-
for the first time
-
at all
-
similarly
-
the corruption
-
in Romans 8
-
on this view
-
is better understood
-
to be a lament
-
of creation
-
for man
-
to finally
-
take up
-
their role
-
of vice-regent
-
for the flourishing
-
of all of creation
-
not for the
-
that nature
-
of predation
-
and animal death
-
but that mankind
-
would finally come
-
and lead creation
-
the way it was meant to
-
to Christians
-
like Collins
-
this would also
-
make sense
-
of our intuition
-
of the amazing glory
-
and beauty
-
of these created beings
-
you know
-
the intricacy
-
of the spider's web
-
the astonishing speed
-
of the barracuda
-
and the superb design
-
of the eagle's eyes
-
and claws
-
Augustine thought
-
the same of the insects
-
saying
-
all things after all
-
have in them
-
a certain worth
-
or grace of nature
-
each of its own kind
-
so that in these
-
minute creatures
-
there is even more
-
for us to wonder at
-
as we observe them
-
and so praise
-
the almighty craftsman
-
for them
-
more rapturously
-
than ever
-
if we pay close attention
-
we are more amazed
-
at the agile flight
-
of a fly
-
than at the stamina
-
of the sturdy mule
-
on the march
-
and the cooperative
-
labors of tiny ants
-
strike us
-
as far more wonderful
-
than the colossal loads
-
that can be carried
-
by camels
-
ultimately
-
the proponents
-
of this view
-
would say
-
that the parts
-
of creation
-
that we are
-
uncomfortable with
-
is a result
-
of our inability
-
to fully appreciate
-
the whole of creation
-
and see
-
just like
-
the dark spots
-
in a painting
-
the greater glory
-
that is produced
-
in the completed project
-
Augustine exhorts us
-
some things you see
-
abide by soaring
-
over the whole
-
rolling wheel
-
of time
-
in the widest range
-
of holiness
-
under God
-
while other things
-
do so according
-
to the limits
-
of their time
-
and thus it is
-
through things
-
giving way to
-
and taking the place
-
of one another
-
that a beautiful
-
tapestry
-
of the ages
-
is woven
-
they would say
-
just like
-
sore eyes
-
make the light
-
hateful to us
-
our fallen
-
attitudes
-
make us unable
-
to properly
-
appreciate
-
the temporal
-
beauty
-
of some aspects
-
of the world
-
and even
-
for those parts
-
that we can't
-
fully understand
-
their purpose
-
John Chrysostom
-
would say
-
from the creation
-
learn to admire
-
the Lord
-
and if any of
-
the things
-
which you see
-
exceed your
-
comprehension
-
and you're not
-
able to find
-
the reason
-
for its existence
-
then for this
-
reason
-
glorify the
-
creator
-
that the wisdom
-
of his works
-
surpasses your
-
own understanding
-
these views
-
were espoused
-
well before
-
the theory of
-
evolution
-
was proposed
-
so they can't
-
actually be
-
considered a
-
capitulation
-
to the current
-
scientific theory
-
but it has
-
not been lost
-
on modern
-
proponents of
-
this view
-
that it would
-
certainly make
-
acceptance of
-
some kind
-
of development
-
and creation
-
more plausible
-
given the
-
animal death
-
and predation
-
in the fossil
-
record that
-
seems to
-
predate humans
-
okay
-
so
-
are those
-
the only
-
options we
-
have left
-
to us
-
I have to
-
say
-
I lean
-
towards the
-
second view
-
with its
-
insistence
-
on the
-
goodness
-
of creation
-
here and
-
now
-
but I'm
-
still
-
not fully
-
satisfied
-
with the
-
arguments
-
against our
-
perception
-
of some
-
kind of
-
natural
-
evil
-
I feel
-
like the
-
virtues
-
of the
-
first
-
view
-
are that
-
it gels
-
with that
-
intuition
-
that we
-
have
-
that there
-
is
-
something
-
wrong
-
there's just
-
something
-
off
-
about
-
creation
-
something
-
that's just
-
not quite
-
right
-
still beautiful
-
but still
-
I don't know
-
it's hard to put
-
words on it
-
and I feel
-
like the
-
virtue of
-
the second
-
view
-
is that
-
it helps us
-
to appreciate
-
creation as
-
we have it
-
now
-
receive
-
the world
-
that we go
-
out right
-
now and
-
see
-
and appreciate
-
and glorify
-
God for it
-
there are
-
pros and
-
cons
-
to each
-
of them
-
I feel
-
like one
-
of the
-
cons
-
of the
-
first view
-
is it
-
does seem
-
to kind
-
of require
-
us
-
to posit
-
some kind
-
of like
-
post-creation
-
creation
-
right
-
so pre-fall
-
there wouldn't
-
be predators
-
or
-
you know
-
decomposers
-
or all these
-
different aspects
-
of creation
-
that seem
-
to be designed
-
to work
-
with animal
-
death
-
and
-
deal with
-
those issues
-
and so
-
I guess
-
in this view
-
the idea
-
would be
-
at the
-
cursing
-
of creation
-
you have
-
this moment
-
where there
-
are suddenly
-
lions who
-
have like
-
big teeth
-
now
-
and claws
-
and digestive
-
systems that
-
work on
-
eating animals
-
and you
-
know
-
venomous snakes
-
suddenly have
-
to get glands
-
that inject
-
venom
-
you see
-
what I'm
-
saying
-
there seems
-
to be
-
some sort
-
of
-
there would
-
have to
-
be
-
some sort
-
of like
-
second
-
creation
-
event
-
sort of
-
although we
-
don't really
-
see something
-
like that
-
in scripture
-
and again
-
I think
-
one of the
-
greatest
-
cons of
-
this second
-
view
-
is just
-
that
-
I feel
-
like it
-
asks us
-
to
-
pretend
-
like we
-
don't see
-
what we
-
see
-
you know
-
that we
-
don't
-
that when
-
we watch
-
the nature
-
documentary
-
we honestly
-
don't
-
root
-
for the
-
squirrel
-
right
-
that's being
-
chased by
-
the fox
-
we're like
-
get away
-
squirrel
-
go
-
what is
-
that
-
I don't
-
know
-
so
-
I say
-
surely
-
we have
-
modern
-
glasses
-
so we
-
have to
-
come at
-
this with
-
a little
-
bit of
-
humility
-
right
-
because
-
we
-
probably
-
have
-
modern
-
glasses
-
that make
-
us
-
more apt
-
to
-
anthropomorphize
-
animals
-
their
-
animals
-
the
-
suffering
-
and death
-
of animals
-
and
-
it could
-
be
-
let's
-
be honest
-
most
-
of us
-
are not
-
spending
-
tons
-
and tons
-
of time
-
connected
-
to nature
-
most of
-
us
-
if we
-
have
-
animals
-
and stuff
-
they're
-
pets
-
and
-
the
-
death
-
of a
-
pet
-
is a
-
huge
-
tragedy
-
and we
-
all
-
feel
-
pain
-
so
-
maybe
-
we
-
are
-
projecting
-
that
-
feeling
-
onto
-
nature
-
broadly
-
but
-
if
-
you
-
talk
-
to
-
a
-
farmer
-
they
-
probably
-
would
-
have
-
a
-
very
-
different
-
intuition
-
about
-
these
-
things
-
right
-
farmers
-
are hard
-
to find
-
you have
-
to find
-
a farm
-
first
-
no
-
but
-
at the
-
same
-
time
-
I don't
-
think
-
I can
-
really
-
ignore
-
my
-
sense
-
that
-
there
-
is
-
gratuitous
-
suffering
-
in the
-
animal
-
world
-
almost
-
like
-
something
-
has
-
attempted
-
to
-
mar
-
God's
-
good
-
creation
-
but
-
ultimately
-
failed
-
so
-
this
-
is
-
actually
-
a
-
minority
-
view
-
in the
-
church
-
however
-
there
-
are
-
a few
-
people
-
in our
-
history
-
that
-
have
-
affirmed
-
the
-
basic
-
goodness
-
of the
-
created
-
world
-
as we
-
receive
-
it
-
including
-
things
-
like
-
predation
-
and
-
animal
-
death
-
but
-
that
-
this
-
basic
-
reflection
-
of
-
God
-
has
-
been
-
disordered
-
post
-
fall
-
to
-
show
-
more
-
cruelty
-
fear
-
and
-
ferocity
-
so
-
in this
-
view
-
the
-
general
-
structure
-
of
-
creation
-
with
-
there
-
being
-
carnivores
-
and
-
producers
-
and
-
decomposers
-
this is
-
all part
-
of
-
God's
-
good
-
creation
-
but
-
there's
-
something
-
about
-
it
-
on
-
the
-
edges
-
that
-
has
-
been
-
corrupted
-
or
-
disordered
-
or
-
twinsed
-
by the
-
fall
-
proponents
-
of
-
this
-
view
-
would
-
include
-
Gregory
-
of
-
Nazianzus
-
John
-
of
-
Damascus
-
Ephraim
-
the
-
Syrian
-
Hugh
-
of
-
Saint
-
Victor
-
and
-
Bonaventure
-
in the
-
modern
-
period
-
people
-
like
-
John
-
Wesley
-
C.S.
-
Lewis
-
J.R.
-
Tolkien
-
Alvin
-
Plantinga
-
and
-
Gavin
-
Ortland
-
now
-
that's
-
not
-
a
-
among
-
others
-
list
-
that is
-
as far
-
as I
-
know
-
the
-
entire
-
list
-
so
-
when I
-
say
-
it's
-
a
-
minority
-
view
-
it
-
is
-
a
-
minority
-
view
-
okay
-
and
-
depending
-
on
-
which
-
one
-
of
-
these
-
figures
-
you're
-
looking
-
at
-
they
-
actually
-
might
-
fault
-
the
-
angelic
-
or
-
human
-
fall
-
with
-
this
-
disorder
-
that
-
we
-
see
-
and
-
but
-
I
-
will
-
remain
-
brief
-
here
-
because
-
honestly
-
this
-
view
-
is
-
basically
-
a
-
blending
-
of
-
the
-
intuitions
-
of
-
the
-
first
-
two
-
views
-
and
-
will
-
rely
-
on
-
their
-
arguments
-
at
-
different
-
places
-
so
-
a
-
proponent
-
of
-
this
-
view
-
might
-
say
-
I
-
agree
-
with
-
Dr.
-
Collins
-
that
-
Isaiah
-
11
-
is
-
really
-
primarily
-
talking
-
about
-
the
-
relationship
-
of
-
Jew
-
and
-
Gentile
-
in
-
the
-
new
-
covenant
-
that
-
this
-
is
-
a
-
new
-
harmony
-
between
-
previously
-
warring
-
factions
-
but
-
they
-
also
-
might
-
say
-
but
-
I
-
don't
-
really
-
agree
-
with
-
Dr.
-
Collins
-
that
-
Genesis
-
1
-
is
-
not
-
talking
-
about
-
prohibiting
-
predation
-
or
-
at least
-
something
-
about
-
the way
-
that
-
land
-
animals
-
work
-
is
-
different
-
now
-
than
-
it
-
used
-
to
-
be
-
you
-
know
-
so
-
it would
-
be
-
kind
-
of
-
pedantic
-
for me
-
to
-
go
-
and
-
say
-
here
-
are
-
all
-
the
-
possible
-
combinations
-
of
-
all
-
the
-
different
-
two
-
views
-
so
-
I'm
-
not
-
going
-
to
-
spend
-
time
-
doing
-
that
-
yeah
-
Richard
-
so
-
one of
-
the things
-
I've
-
learned
-
from
-
listening
-
to
-
Christian
-
teachers
-
and reading
-
my
-
Bible
-
is
-
that
-
we
-
hold
-
certain
-
truths
-
in
-
tension
-
with
-
each
-
other
-
and
-
really
-
Christians
-
have
-
gotten
-
really
-
good
-
at
-
doing
-
that
-
and
-
it's
-
a
-
shame
-
that
-
only
-
a
-
minority
-
that
-
you
-
speak
-
about
-
have
-
even
-
attempted
-
to
-
hold
-
these
-
ideas
-
in
-
tension
-
with
-
one
-
another
-
yeah
-
I
-
mean
-
it
-
could
-
be
-
maybe
-
a
-
better
-
way
-
of
-
saying
-
instead
-
of
-
saying
-
we
-
have
-
black
-
hats
-
over
-
here
-
white
-
hats
-
over
-
here
-
and
-
the
-
few
-
gray
-
hats
-
in
-
the
-
middle
-
it
-
might
-
actually
-
be
-
more
-
appropriate
-
to
-
think
-
of
-
it
-
as
-
a
-
spectrum
-
and
-
that
-
there
-
are
-
definable
-
groups
-
within
-
the
-
spectrum
-
but
-
each
-
of
-
these
-
different
-
views
-
probably
-
is
-
trying
-
to
-
get
-
at
-
that
-
tension
-
but
-
maybe
-
they
-
are
-
waiting
-
one
-
side
-
over
-
the
-
other
-
right
-
so
-
and
-
I'll
-
finish
-
up
-
by
-
I
-
don't
-
I
-
really
-
want
-
to
-
make
-
sure
-
I
-
make
-
clear
-
that
-
proponents
-
of the
-
first
-
view
-
don't
-
think
-
that you
-
should
-
hate
-
nature
-
proponents
-
of the
-
second
-
view
-
don't
-
believe
-
that
-
everything
-
is
-
perfectly
-
great
-
all the
-
time
-
and
-
that
-
you
-
should
-
just
-
you
-
know
-
life
-
is
-
awesome
-
and
-
that
-
human
-
sin
-
hasn't
-
affected
-
nature
-
in
-
any
-
way
-
right
-
but
-
they
-
would
-
lean
-
they
-
would
-
lean
-
in
-
their
-
perception
-
on
-
one
-
end
-
of
-
weighing
-
those
-
two
-
things
-
the
-
goodness
-
of
-
creation
-
and
-
the
-
fallenness
-
of
-
nature
-
and
-
this
-
middle
-
group
-
is
-
sort
-
of
-
those
-
people
-
who
-
are
-
like
-
I
-
kind
-
of
-
want
-
to
-
hold
-
them
-
together
-
really
-
tight
-
somehow
-
you
-
know
-
can
-
I
-
ask
-
you
-
a
-
question
-
about
-
Dr.
-
Collins
-
yeah
-
so
-
he
-
thinks
-
that
-
the
-
present
-
state
-
of
-
the
-
world
-
of
-
nature
-
okay
-
is
-
as
-
God
-
pronounced
-
it
-
very
-
good
-
yep
-
so
-
he
-
doesn't
-
think
-
that
-
it's
-
merely
-
good
-
no
-
he
-
thinks
-
it's
-
very
-
good
-
I
-
can't
-
go
-
that
-
far
-
yeah
-
yeah
-
and
-
that's
-
right
-
that's
-
the
-
that's
-
the
-
hard
-
part
-
it's
-
like
-
oh
-
how
-
do
-
we
-
how
-
do
-
we
-
deal
-
with
-
that
-
you
-
know
-
yeah
-
right
-
and
-
so
-
yeah
-
it's
-
it's
-
a
-
it's
-
a
-
hard
-
problem
-
now
-
for
-
this
-
third
-
view
-
the
-
sort
-
of
-
middle
-
view
-
Jared
-
Tolkien
-
seems
-
to be
-
trading
-
on
-
this
-
when
-
he
-
depicts
-
his
-
creation
-
account
-
in
-
the
-
Silmarillion
-
I
-
don't
-
know
-
if
-
any
-
of
-
you
-
!
-
you
-
the
-
creation
-
account
-
because
-
it was
-
the
-
very
-
first
-
page
-
and
-
it
-
was
-
I
-
think
-
it's
-
only
-
one
-
page
-
so
-
if
-
you
-
got
-
through
-
one
-
page
-
of
-
the
-
Silmarillion
-
you
-
read
-
this
-
part
-
but
-
basically
-
in
-
this
-
story
-
Iluvatar
-
who is
-
sort
-
of
-
the
-
god
-
figure
-
is
-
leading
-
the
-
god
-
like
-
Ainur
-
who are
-
kind
-
of
-
like
-
angels
-
in
-
this
-
song
-
of
-
creation
-
and
-
Melkor
-
who is
-
the
-
devil
-
figure
-
is
-
constantly
-
ringing
-
a
-
discordant
-
note
-
in
-
this
-
song
-
of
-
creation
-
but
-
Iluvatar
-
is
-
always
-
taking
-
that
-
discordant
-
note
-
and
-
harmonizing
-
it
-
and
-
bringing
-
it
-
back
-
into
-
the
-
story
-
and
-
harmonizing
-
it
-
and
-
this
-
sort
-
of
-
gets
-
kind
-
of
-
brings
-
an
-
imaginative
-
expression
-
of the
-
possibility
-
of
-
god's
-
self
-
revelation
-
in
-
nature
-
but
-
that
-
is
-
disordered
-
at the
-
margins
-
but
-
reworked
-
finally
-
into
-
the
-
whole
-
as
-
very
-
good
-
so
-
how do
-
we end
-
oh
-
go ahead
-
that is
-
you Matt
-
sorry
-
has
-
anybody
-
tried
-
to
-
look
-
at
-
these
-
issues
-
through
-
the
-
lens
-
of
-
the
-
garden
-
god
-
planted
-
and
-
a
-
man
-
ruling
-
first
-
in the
-
garden
-
and
-
then
-
with
-
the
-
worldwide
-
commission
-
of
-
Genesis
-
1
-
to go
-
out
-
and have
-
to be
-
all the
-
world
-
yeah
-
a lot
-
of
-
times
-
people
-
who
-
take
-
the
-
second
-
view
-
actually
-
would
-
say
-
that
-
the
-
garden
-
of
-
Eden
-
was
-
sort
-
of
-
the
-
landing
-
zone
-
of
-
humanity's
-
rule
-
over
-
creation
-
vice
-
regency
-
over
-
creation
-
you could
-
say
-
and that
-
the
-
commission
-
was to
-
go out
-
and spread
-
the bliss
-
of Eden
-
across the
-
whole
-
world
-
and that
-
when
-
Adam and
-
Eve are
-
kicked out
-
of the
-
garden
-
you know
-
there are
-
no squatters
-
in the
-
garden
-
they are
-
now going
-
to encounter
-
thorns and
-
thistles for
-
the first
-
time
-
so it's
-
not that
-
they didn't
-
exist
-
but that
-
they
-
would
-
not have
-
experienced
-
them the
-
way they
-
would have
-
had they
-
been growing
-
Eden
-
out
-
as opposed
-
to being
-
kicked
-
out of
-
Eden
-
and working
-
with creation
-
in its
-
most
-
difficult
-
harsh
-
form
-
so that's
-
actually a
-
pretty common
-
view
-
among the
-
second
-
people
-
the first
-
people of the
-
first view
-
would say
-
that Eden
-
was the
-
entire
-
world
-
the entire
-
world
-
was a
-
garden
-
of Eden
-
usually
-
so how
-
do we
-
finish
-
how do we
-
conclude
-
well
-
as usual
-
for this
-
class
-
what's the
-
point of
-
this
-
class
-
the point
-
of this
-
class
-
is
-
to receive
-
creation
-
as a gift
-
from God
-
and to
-
glorify him
-
for it
-
okay
-
and so
-
no matter
-
which of
-
the views
-
you find
-
compelling
-
in light
-
of the
-
fact
-
that
-
creation
-
is God's
-
self-revelation
-
of his
-
being
-
from his
-
divine
-
ideas
-
we are
-
given
-
no warrant
-
!
-
to dismiss
-
the created
-
world
-
and scripture
-
gives us
-
a universal
-
example
-
of undiluted
-
praise to God
-
as creator
-
to that end
-
I will finish
-
our talk
-
today
-
with quotes
-
from proponents
-
of each
-
of the
-
different
-
views
-
addressed
-
above
-
on the
-
existing
-
majesty
-
of God's
-
handiwork
-
I actually
-
chose
-
Dr.
-
Wilson
-
as a
-
proponent
-
of the
-
first view
-
because
-
I just
-
love
-
his obvious
-
love
-
of the
-
created
-
world
-
as we
-
have it
-
now
-
he says
-
though
-
other
-
animals
-
too
-
have been
-
affected
-
by the
-
curse
-
in various
-
ways
-
their
-
evident
-
beauty
-
grace
-
symmetry
-
coordination
-
and complexity
-
are reminders
-
of a
-
glorious
-
creation
-
once
-
untainted
-
by the
-
curse
-
they
-
and even
-
the
-
gnarliest
-
creatures
-
reveal
-
the ingenious
-
artistry
-
and engineering
-
of our
-
creator
-
so that
-
everyone
-
is without
-
excuse
-
and
-
Basil of
-
Caesarea
-
for the
-
second view
-
can double
-
down on that
-
sentiment
-
he says
-
I want
-
creation
-
to penetrate
-
you
-
with so
-
much
-
admiration
-
that
-
everywhere
-
wherever
-
you may
-
be
-
the
-
least
-
plant
-
may
-
bring
-
to you
-
the
-
clear
-
remembrance
-
of the
-
creator
-
and
-
finally
-
John of
-
Damascus
-
explains
-
how
-
creation
-
points us
-
to God
-
he says
-
the whole
-
earth
-
is a
-
living
-
icon
-
of the
-
face
-
of
-
God
-
I
-
do
-
not
-
worship
-
matter
-
I
-
worship
-
the
-
creator
-
of
-
matter
-
who
-
became
-
matter
-
for
-
my
-
sake
-
who
-
willed
-
to
-
take
-
his
-
abode
-
in
-
matter
-
who
-
worked
-
out
-
my
-
salvation
-
through
-
matter
-
never
-
will
-
I
-
cease
-
honoring
-
the
-
matter
-
which
-
wrought
-
my
-
salvation
-
I
-
honor
-
it
-
but not
-
as
-
God
-
because
-
of
-
this
-
I
-
salute
-
all
-
remaining
-
matter
-
with
-
reverence
-
because
-
God
-
has
-
filled
-
it
-
with
-
his
-
grace
-
and
-
power
-
and
-
through
-
it
-
my
-
salvation
-
has
-
come
-
to
-
me
-
so
-
let me
-
finish
-
by reading
-
Psalm
-
148
-
which I
-
think is
-
just
-
this is
-
giving us
-
an example
-
of how
-
we should
-
respond
-
to the
-
natural
-
world
-
praise
-
the Lord
-
praise the
-
Lord from
-
the heavens
-
praise him
-
in the
-
heights
-
praise him
-
all angels
-
praise him
-
all his
-
hosts
-
praise him
-
sun and
-
moon
-
praise him
-
all you
-
shining
-
stars
-
praise him
-
you highest
-
heavens and
-
you waters
-
above the
-
heavens
-
let them
-
praise the
-
name of
-
the
-
Lord
-
for he
-
commanded
-
and they
-
were
-
created
-
and he
-
established
-
them
-
forever
-
and ever
-
he gave
-
a decree
-
and it
-
shall not
-
pass away
-
praise the
-
Lord from
-
the earth
-
you great
-
sea creatures
-
and all
-
deeps
-
fire and
-
hail
-
snow and
-
mist
-
stormy
-
wind
-
fulfilling
-
his
-
word
-
mountains
-
and all
-
hills
-
fruit trees
-
and all
-
cedars
-
beasts
-
and all
-
livestock
-
creeping
-
things
-
and flying
-
birds
-
kings
-
of the
-
earth
-
and all
-
peoples
-
princes
-
and all
-
rulers
-
of the
-
earth
-
young
-
men
-
and maidens
-
together
-
old
-
men
-
and
-
children
-
let them
-
praise the
-
name of
-
the Lord
-
for his
-
name alone
-
is exalted
-
his majesty
-
is above
-
earth and
-
heaven
-
he has
-
raised up
-
a horn
-
for his
-
people
-
praise for
-
all his
-
saints
-
for the
-
people of
-
Israel
-
who are
-
near to
-
him
-
praise the
-
Lord
-
amen
-
all right
-
guys
-
that's it
-
that's all
-
I have
-
any
-
questions
-
we have
-
five minutes
-
for questions
-
if not
-
we have
-
five minutes
-
extra to go
-
downstairs and
-
get ready for
-
worship
-
thanks Ed
-
I can't
-
believe our
-
conversation
-
yesterday
-
I know
-
isn't that
-
crazy
-
yeah
-
it's just
-
on my
-
mind
-
yeah
-
and I
-
loved it
-
I think
-
I told
-
you hit
-
100%
-
yeah
-
right
-
thanks
-
dad
-
yeah
-
right
-
right
-
right
-
yeah
-
exactly
-
yeah
-
good to
-
see you
-
sorry
-
neighbor
-
Tyler
-
yeah
-
exactly
-
yeah
-
very often
-
yeah
-
those are
-
the images
-
used to
-
describe
-
those nations
-
right
-
right
-
exactly
-
yeah
-
and the
-
snake
-
you know
-
the snake
-
of the west
-
right
-
exactly
-
yeah
-
exactly
-
yeah
-
so I'm
-
good
-
coming
-
out
-
of
-
fruition
-
I
-
really
-
like
-
like
-
you
-
like
-
you
-
you