Doctrine of Creation

All right, friends, let's go ahead and begin.

Let me say a prayer as we dive in this morning.

Father, thank you for this morning.

Thank you that we can be here in your house, gathered as your people,

!

to consider all of what you've revealed about yourself and your word,

so that we might know you, so that we might love you,

and so that we might find our deepest joy in you.

God, we pray for your help this morning as we conclude our class on the doctrine of creation.

Would you be magnified and glorified as we bring this class to its fitting conclusion?

We pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.

All right, well, it is fitting that here we are at the last week on our class about the doctrine of creation,

and we're taking up the topic of the purpose or the goal of creation.

In other words, what is the end for which God created the world?

Why did God create all things?

You know, we've spent a lot of time talking about the details and the how

and the sort of relationship between the creation narratives and science

and between different interpretations.

We've talked about the doctrine of humanity and bearing God's image.

Now we're taking a step back and asking,

what was God's grand design and aim in doing this thing that we've been talking about,

creating us in all things?

Now before we look at what Scripture has to say about this topic,

I thought it might be worthwhile to consider first,

why is that question even important or worthwhile?

Does it really matter whether we can articulate the purpose or the goal of creation,

or is that just kind of like, you know, curious speculation that you do on a Sunday morning at nine o'clock

when you don't have anything better to do, you know, and you've made it here despite the road race?

So it's like, oh, let's pontificate.

Well, I would suggest that knowing the purpose or the goal of God's work of creation is very,

very utterly vital for a life of flourishing in this created world.

You know, imagine being handed the keys to a beautiful new car,

but having no idea about the purpose or the goal of what a car is, right?

So rather than driving the car and enjoying kind of going down the highway with the windows down

and your hair blowing in the breeze,

which is something I've not experienced in a long time,

you know,

you say, wow, that's a nice, you know, object with space in it.

I think I'll use it to, you know, store some old papers and clothes.

My closet's a little full, so I'll just put them in that car thing, right?

What a loss! What a loss!

And in the same way, knowing the purpose of creation,

the goal of creation,

God's intended end for creation,

it will help us live in creation well.

But even more importantly,

as we've been talking about the last two weeks,

as we've considered the doctrine of humanity,

what have we seen?

That we humans, we don't just live in and among God's creation,

we also are God's creatures, right?

So knowing the purpose or the goal of creation

is to know what it means not just to live a flourishing life in God's creation,

but as God's creation.

To know the purpose or goal of creation

is to begin to see how to live with the grain, as it were,

of your very existence, right?

Are there any woodworkers here?

None.

Okay, so a piece of wood, right,

has a grain to it, right?

And if you're trying to create something out of that piece of wood

and you try to cut it or sand it or shape it against the grain of that wood,

it's very difficult.

In fact, the whole project can be botched if you try to do that.

Rather, if you're a very talented woodworker,

you try to work with the grain of the wood.

And knowing the goal or the purpose of creation

is to know the very grain of our existence

so that we can live in line with it

and live a life of beauty.

So I think this topic then isn't just sort of curious speculation.

It's about finding our deepest purpose as humans

in the world that God has made.

So with that being said,

as we consider the purpose or the goal or the end of creation,

I think the first thing we want to consider

as we approach this topic is this.

One, the triune God

created the world

in freedom.

The triune God created the world in freedom.

You know, we might ask the question,

was the creation of the world a necessity for God?

Did God have to create?

Now, outside of Christianity,

that is often taken to be true.

That the world is somehow necessary for God.

That God needs to create the world,

whatever we understand God to be.

And usually when that kind of thinking is afoot,

two options or two possibilities have often come up.

In the first, you know,

well, I won't list them here because they're not true.

In the first kind of way of seeing creation as necessary,

God is sort of pictured as so,

so kind of super abundantly full and rich

that he just can't contain himself, right?

He lacks power over his own being

so that the world just sort of has to flow out of him,

like a stream from a source

or like sort of water spilling over the edge

of an overfull picture, right?

So that's one way of thinking about the creation

sort of being necessary,

that God had to do it.

The other way is actually kind of the opposite,

that God has to create the world

because in himself,

God is so empty.

God is so poor, right?

He brings the world into existence

to supply something for himself

because he lacks something, right?

You know, a popular way of putting that

is that God is lonely

and needs the world

to sort of express his goodness and love.

Maybe a more philosophical way of putting that

is that without the world,

God is only sort of potentiality, right?

And in order to be actual,

God has to create the world

and become fully God

through some sort of process

with that which is not God.

Now, either of those views

fall short of what the Bible teaches us.

Neither of those views

is a biblical view of God

and God's creation.

According to the Bible,

creation is not sort of a spontaneous,

uncontrolled overflow or emanation of God,

nor did God have to create

out of a lack or loneliness.

In fact, according to the Bible,

God didn't have to create at all.

Consider who the Bible presents God to be.

How does God reveal himself in Scripture?

Well, God reveals himself as the triune God, right?

Father, Son, and Spirit from all eternity.

That is his very nature.

One God, eternally existing in three persons,

Father, Son, and Spirit.

And the three persons of the Trinity

relate with perfect love,

perfect joy,

and perfect bliss from all eternity.

There's no lack in God.

There's no need for a world

apart from the triune God

to make God more God, right?

God is perfect love in God's self

without the world

as the Father and the Son and the Spirit

exist in perfect love, right?

So God doesn't need the world

to be a loving God

or to express his love.

Yeah, Ivor, did you have a question there?

When do the angels come in?

Yeah, that's a really good question.

Luke, you're the expert on Genesis 1.

When do the angels come in?

Well, they are...

It depends on who you ask.

So somebody like Augustine

would say that

he takes the creation of the light

of day one

to be referring to the creation of the angels.

And that's a pretty popular view

in the early church.

But I think most

modern commentators

and others would say

it just is not mentioned.

Yeah, Genesis 1 doesn't mention it.

Yeah, that's right.

But when Genesis 1 says

God created the heaven and the earth,

it's talking about

all of created existence,

both that which we can see

and that which we cannot see.

And then as Genesis 1,

as Luke said,

kind of narrows in

on sort of telling us

what we need to know

about that creation week,

whether that's taken literally,

metaphorically,

figurative, or whatever,

it sort of zooms in

on what we kind of...

what the author of Genesis

wants us to know

about the orderliness

and the fullness of creation.

Yeah, that's right.

But the point is

that even without the angels,

God is perfectly complete

in himself.

Perfect joy,

perfect bliss.

God is the fullness

of life and goodness,

utterly independent of the world.

He doesn't need the world

to be God.

And the world

adds nothing

to God.

Huh?

Right?

You know,

imagine walking up to

someone who's just

fabulously wealthy,

right,

and handing them

like a sugar packet.

What has that added

to their wealth,

right?

Give Jeff Bezos $10.

What has that added

to his wealth?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

I mean,

you know,

he would blow his nose

on $100 bills.

You know,

it doesn't matter to him,

right?

Now,

so given that God is,

the triune God,

is perfect love

and joy in life

in God's self,

does this mean

that creation then

is the kind of

spontaneous,

uncontrolled overflow

of God?

God.

Sometimes Christians

can actually speak

that way.

But does

the triune God

necessarily

kind of

emanate

the creation

like water

spilling over the top

of an overfull glass?

Well,

think about it.

If that were the case,

then

what would be true

of creation?

It will have had

to exist

from all eternity,

right?

Because if God

is just overflowing,

then creation

must have always

been overflowing.

But scripture

is very clear

that the world

had a definite

beginning.

In the beginning,

God created.

And regardless

of where Christians

fall,

when it comes

to the age

of the earth

or the age

of the universe,

all Christians

believe that the

universe is not

eternal,

that God brought

it into being

deliberately

and consciously.

Besides,

I mean,

consider,

the God of the

Bible is not

ever subject

to accidents

or uncontrolled

consequences,

right?

We humans

might lose control.

We might spill

over in anger

or in happiness

or in sadness.

But God,

in perfect love,

joy,

and bliss,

is also perfect

in power

and wisdom

and righteousness.

Psalm 115.3

says,

Our God

is in the heavens.

He does

all that

He pleases.

Right?

Or Psalm 135.6,

Whatever the Lord

pleases,

He does.

In heaven

and on earth,

in the seas

and all the deeps.

In other words,

we,

humans,

along with the

entire created order,

are not

the sort of

accident

of God's overflow,

but we are

the freely

and deliberately

chosen

act of God's

will.

The triune God

created us

in freedom.

Now,

we see this

truth affirmed

again and again

in Scripture

when it speaks

of God

creating all

things according

to His will,

according to

His good pleasure.

Consider a verse

like Romans,

sorry,

Revelation 4,

Revelation 4:11

verse 11.

Revelation 4,

11 says,

Worthy are you,

our Lord and God,

to receive honor

and glory

and power,

for you created

all things,

and by your

will

they existed

and were created.

Or Psalm 33,

6 says,

By the word

of the Lord

the heavens

were made

and by the

breath of His mouth

all their hosts.

Or Psalm 33,

8 through 9,

Let all the earth

fear the Lord,

let all the inhabitants

of the world

stand in awe

of Him,

for He spoke

and it came to be.

He commanded

and it stood firm.

Or again,

Jeremiah 10,

Jeremiah 10:12

verse 12,

It is He

who made

the earth

by His power,

who established

the world

by His wisdom

and by His

understanding

stretched out

the heavens.

Or one

from the New Testament,

Ephesians 1,

11,

Paul says that

God is the one

who works

all things

according to

what?

The whims

of His necessity.

No,

according to

the counsel

of His will.

So,

consider first then

as we think about

the purpose

or goal of creation

that God

did not

have to

create us.

Our being

is not necessary

and it's not forced.

Which means

that we

are

and everything

is

completely

contingent,

completely

dependent,

utterly

upon God's

own freedom

and God's

own will.

Acts 17,

24 through 25

says,

The God

who made the world

and everything

in it,

being Lord

of heaven

and earth,

does not live

in temples

made by man,

nor is He

served by human

hands as though

He needed anything

since He

Himself

gives to

all mankind

life

and breath

and everything.

But,

if this means

that we

didn't have

to exist,

right?

If it was

part of God's

own free

good pleasure

that He

bring the world

into existence

out of no

necessity,

that also means

not just are we

totally dependent

upon God,

but it means

that we are not

an accident,

right?

that we are

the free creation

of the deliberate

will of God.

We are the work

of His own

good pleasure.

When we say

that God did not

have to create,

but rather that God

created simply

out of His own will,

His own counsel,

His own good pleasure,

that is not to say

that God's act

of creation

was arbitrary

or indifferent,

right?

It's not as if

God's sort of

walking along His way,

eh, whatever,

I guess I'll create today.

And then He sort of

walks away,

right?

No, no.

God's will to create,

though it is exercised

in perfect freedom,

it's not arbitrary.

It's not sort of

an afterthought

or an indifferent act,

right?

Remember how in

Genesis 1,

God purposefully

speaks all of

the created order

into existence,

right?

Genesis 1

speaks of an

ordering,

a harmony,

and an intentionality

to God's creative work.

And at the climax

of that story,

when God creates

humanity,

the triune God

explicitly

deliberates,

right?

Let us make man

in our own image.

Purpose,

intentionality,

love,

goodness

expressed

in this act.

Psalm 104,

24 says,

O Lord,

how manifold

are your works.

In wisdom

have you made

them all.

The earth is full

of your creatures.

And of course,

when we turn to

the New Testament,

the deliberate

wisdom of God's

work in creation

is even more unveiled

when we see

that God the Father

made all things

through his Son

by his Spirit.

That creation

is a work

of the triune God,

right?

Genesis,

sorry,

John 1,

1 through 3,

in the beginning

was the Word,

and the Word

was with God,

and the Word

was God.

He was in the

beginning with God.

All things were

made through him,

and without him

was not anything

made that was made.

That the bringing

of creation

into existence

out of God's

freedom

is a complete

and intentional

act of the

triune God.

So the triune God

creates freely

by the counsel

of his own will

and his own

sovereign good pleasure.

Okay.

So then,

we're led to ask,

well,

what goal did

God have in mind

then as he did

this free act

of his own

good pleasure?

And that brings us

to our second point

then.

That the triune God

created

the world

in freedom

for his own

glory.

That the triune God

created the world

in freedom

for his own

glory.

So,

in other words,

the purpose

or the goal

or the end

of creation

is for God's

own glory

to resound

and redound.

God's glory

is for God's

Now,

what is God's glory?

Well,

you know,

we might say

that God's glory

is his knowledge,

his love,

and his joy.

To have

that

which is

not God

resound

and reverberate

with the knowledge

of God,

the love of God,

and the joy

of God,

for the manifold

perfection of God

to be reflected

back to God

for God's

own sake

because God

is supremely

worthy.

That

is the purpose

of creation.

That's your purpose

and that's my purpose.

Listen to Psalm 19,

Psalms 19:1

verse 1.

The heavens

declare

the glory

of God.

The sky above

proclaims

his handiwork.

What are

the heavens?

And by extension,

the rest of the

created order.

Ultimately,

they are the

symphony

of God's glory

declaring

and radiating

God's infinite

majesty

and worth.

Every star,

a string,

in the symphony

of God's glory.

Okay,

but what about us?

What about human beings?

Well, Isaiah 43,

6-7,

talking about

God's redeemed people,

but of course,

by extension,

all of humanity,

he says,

I will say to the north,

give up,

and to the south,

do not withhold,

bring my sons from afar

and my daughters

from the ends of the earth,

everyone who is called

by my name,

who I created

for my glory,

whom I formed

and made.

God created you

for his glory.

Which means that

you and I

are not

the center

of creation's

story.

God doesn't exist

for our sake.

Right?

We exist

for his sake.

God is the center.

He's the reason.

In other words,

God doesn't sort of exist

to make much of us.

Right?

We exist

to make much

of God.

In that regard,

consider Psalm 8,

which expresses

kind of the exalted

place that we humans

have in the created order.

But listen to how

that psalm begins

and ends,

and I'll read

the whole psalm.

Psalm 8 says,

O Lord,

our Lord,

how majestic

is your name

in all the earth.

You have set

your glory

above the heavens.

Out of the mouth

of babies and infants

you've established

strength because of

your foes to still

the enemy and the avenger.

When I look at

the heavens,

the work of your fingers,

the moon and the stars

which you have set

in place,

what is man

that you are mindful

of him

and the son of man

that you care for him?

Yet,

you have made him

a little lower

than the heavenly beings

and crowned him

with glory and honor.

You have given him

dominion over the works

of your hands.

You've put all things

under his feet,

all sheep and oxen

and also the beasts

of the field,

the birds of the heavens

and the fish of the sea,

whatever passes along

the paths of the sea.

O Lord,

our Lord,

how majestic

is your name

in all the earth.

You see,

the psalm begins

in worship and wonder

at God's majesty

and then sort of utters

almost surprise

and sort of humble praise

for putting humanity

in such an exalted position

and then it ends

where it began,

praising God

for his majesty.

That whatever glory

we have

is meant to

resound

and reflect

back to an even

greater degree

the glory

that God is.

Turning to the New Testament,

Romans 11, 36 says,

for from him

and through him

and to him

are all things.

To him

be glory

forever.

Amen.

God's not just

the beginning

or the origin

of creation.

Not only are all things

from him

and through him,

but God is also

the goal

and the end

of creation.

All things

are to him.

Everything exists

to find its end

and goal

and him

for his end,

for his purpose

to display

God's manifold

perfections.

His goodness

and love.

His righteousness

and holiness.

His wisdom

and power.

But you know

the New Testament

puts an even finer

point on it

than this.

Just as the Father

created all things

through the Son

by the Spirit,

so all things

exist

for the sake

of the Son.

Listen to Colossians

1.16

which speaks

of the eternal Son

who became flesh

in the incarnation,

Jesus Christ

our Lord.

It says,

for by him

all things

were created

in heaven

and on earth,

visible and invisible,

whether thrones

or dominions

or rulers

or authorities.

There's those

heavenly beings

that we were

talking about earlier.

God created

all them

through the agency

of the Son.

The Father

created all those

things through

the Son.

All things,

Paul goes on

to say in verse 16

of Colossians 1,

all things

were created

through him

and for him.

All things

were created

through him

and for him.

You were created

for Jesus Christ,

the second person

of the Trinity,

the eternal Son

of the Father.

You exist

for him.

Your purpose

is to magnify

the glory

and beauty

of who he is

and all

that he has

done.

Now,

it's natural

when we consider

scripture

continuing to tell us

that over and over

and over again,

right?

It's natural

to raise a few

questions,

isn't it?

When we hear

scripture say

over and over

that the purpose

and end of creation

is not ultimately

our glory

or our exaltation

or our happiness,

right?

But ultimately

God's glory

and God's supreme

delight in himself

and his perfection,

we kind of think

at first,

wait a minute,

right?

I thought we just

spent a whole point

saying that God

didn't need anything,

right?

That he didn't need

creation for anything

but here it sounds

like God's kind of

hungry for his own

glory,

right?

It sounds like he

needs us to glorify him,

that he needs us

to make him seem great,

like he kind of forgot,

you know?

But again,

God's purpose

in glorifying himself

in creation

is not because

he lacks

this glory

in himself.

Listen to what

Jesus says

in John 17,

John 17:5

verse 5.

Jesus is looking

ahead to his death,

resurrection,

ascension,

his return to the

Father,

and he says,

and now,

Father,

glorify me

in your own

presence

with the glory

that I had with you

before the world

existed.

God doesn't need

the world

or you or me

for his glory

to be perfectly

and utterly

known and loved

and rejoiced in.

In fact,

if you think about it,

only God

can glorify God

fully.

Why?

Because only God

really knows

God in fullness.

Jesus says

in Matthew 11

that only the Father

truly knows the Son

and only the Son

truly knows the Father.

And in 1 Corinthians 2,

we're told that

no one comprehends

the thoughts of God

except the Spirit of God.

So only Father,

Son,

and Spirit

can possibly

know,

love,

and rejoice

in one another

fully.

and that is

exactly what

God has done

and will do

from and for

all eternity.

Father,

glorify me

in your own

presence

with the glory

that I had

with you

before the world

existed.

So we must not

think that God's

creation of the world

for his own glory

means that God

is some insecure,

ego-hungry deity

in need of a little

boost,

right?

No,

God's utterly

resplendent

in knowledge

and love

and joy

and glory.

So then the

second question

comes,

the second

maybe objection

even comes,

that when we say

that God creates

all things

for his glory,

it sort of

sounds like

it kind of

devalues us

as his creatures.

Does this

emphasis on

God's glory,

this radical

God-centeredness

of the purpose

of creation

this emphasis

on God's glory

is the final

goal of all

creatures?

Does that mean

that we have

lost our

dignity?

Does it mean

that we as humans

are just kind of

some means

to an end?

And yet,

what greater

end

could there be

for us

as God's

creatures?

that we

would grasp

through God's

self-revelation

something of

the knowledge

of God

who is

truth itself.

To behold

through God's

self-giving

the holiness

and love

of God

that is to be

drawn into

the one

who is

goodness

itself

and to find

our deepest

delight and

praise there.

And what

finally could be

greater to

experience again

through God's

own self-giving

to us

the very

joy of

God?

What greater

end could

there be?

Right?

If we are

to be means

to an end,

I'd take that

end.

Wouldn't you?

The fact

that God

called us

into existence

so that we

could,

in our

creaturely way,

reflect his

infinite

perfections back

to him

and enjoy

the communication

and communion

of his

supreme

worth?

Oh,

how could

we question

that?

At the end

of the day,

finally,

our greatest

good.

What greater

end is worth

living for?

If your

life and my

life reflect

something of

the majesty

of Jesus,

the one who

all the heavenly

hosts adore,

the one who

called all

things into

being out of

nothing,

if our

lives reflect

some of

that glory

back to

God from

whom it

came,

if we

experience

that,

would that

not be the

highest and

most satisfying

way to

live?

Are you

really telling

me that

building a

giant bank

account and

crushing it

at work and

having everyone

bow at your

feet is better

than experiencing

eternal joy,

exploding communion

with the

trying God

and reflecting

his glory back

to him?

I think the

fact that we

wrestle with

this, and I

wrestle with

it too, it's

just evidence

of how small

our thoughts

are of God

and how much

we need God

to continue to

show himself to

us in his

grace.

Now, lest we

think that this

purpose in

creation to

glorify God

means somehow

a devaluing of

creation, right?

Well, how do we

go about glorifying

God, right?

I mean, listen

though, listen to

what God says

in Genesis

1.31.

God saw

everything that

he made,

and behold,

it was very

good.

We have to

continue to

keep in our

view the

very goodness

of creation.

God has

pronounced the

created order

very good,

which means that

our glorifying

God, right,

is not detached

or removed

from

participation in

this material

creation.

creation, the

enjoyment of

what God has

made, the

proper use and

cultivation of

creation, like

we talked about

last week when

John took us

through a

biblical theology

of culture.

These things

are all central

and vital to

glorifying God.

Glorifying God

does not mean

escaping or

rejecting or

removing ourselves

from all this

created order, but

enjoying it and

experiencing it and

rejoicing in it and

glorifying God with

it fully.

in 1 Timothy 4,

3-5, Paul says

that at some

point some people

will come along

who, as he says

there in verse 3,

who forbid marriage

and require abstinence

from foods that God

created to be received

with thanksgiving by

those who believe and

know the truth, right?

It's very easy to

think, well, if we're

meant to glorify God,

then we have to just

abstain from everything

down here, right?

Because all this

murky, evil, created

stuff is bad.

No, Paul says.

He says,

that sort of

rejection of

created goods is

not the way to

honor and glorify

God, our creator.

He says in verse 4,

for everything

created by God

is good.

Nothing is to be

rejected if it is

received with

thanksgiving, for it

is made holy by the

word of God in

prayer.

And the word of

God there is most

likely referring back

to that word that

God spoke in Genesis

1, declaring creation

very good.

So it's this

fact that God

created the world

for his own glory

does not lead

to a kind of

asceticism or a

kind of rejection

of the created

world, but a full

enjoyment and

embrace of it.

Yes, a proper

use of it.

There are improper

ways we can go about

enjoying the created

order, of course.

But we are meant to

receive it with

thanksgiving, as

Paul says.

Now, later in that

same letter, Paul's

going to warn

against just

amassing material

things for their

own end.

In 1 Timothy

1 Timothy 6:17

6, verse 17, he

says,

As for the rich in

this present age,

charge them not to

be haughty, nor to

set their hopes on

the uncertainty of

riches, but on

God.

Okay, that's right,

right?

Lest we set our

hopes on the created

things of this world,

we need to be

reminded, no, set

your hopes on the

triune God.

But then Paul says

this, who richly

provides us with

everything to enjoy.

There's that same

note again.

God richly provides

us with everything to

enjoy.

We're meant to

receive God's good

gifts and enjoy them

with thanksgiving and

gladness in our hearts

towards Him.

Do you remember that

passage in Acts 2 that

describes the early

church?

They broke bread in

their homes with joy

and gladness in their

hearts, receiving those

good creaturely gifts

gifts and praise to

their Creator.

So part of glorifying

God our Creator is

agreeing with God that

even though sin has

entered the world,

creation itself remains

good and treating

creation as if it is

good and receiving and

caring for it and

cultivating it and

stewarding it with

thanksgiving and honor

towards the Creator.

So what is the end for

which God created the

world?

It's His own glory.

God creates for

Himself.

And rather than that

being a purpose that

diminishes or degrades

us, it's just the

opposite.

It's the highest form of

privilege to behold and

reflect the glory of God.

And by the grace of

Christ, we who have

fallen short of the

glory of God through

sin, through the grace

of Christ can be

reconciled to God.

And by the Spirit we can

fulfill this calling to

reflect His glory once

again.

And you know, this

calling to magnify God

and to enjoy God for

all that God is and to

exalt Him as God through

that, that calling is

never going to reach its

end.

You know, there's never

going to be a day, even

in the new heavens and

new earth, even when sin

and death are no more in

the created order, even

when we see God face to

face, there's never going

to be a day when we will

say that we have finally

glorified God for all He

is.

Right?

You know, have you ever

listened to a piece of

music that you really

love?

And then you listen to it

and listen to it and

listen to it and listen to

it and then finally you're

sort of like, I think I'm

done.

Right?

You know?

I think I've digested the

whole thing.

You know?

I'm ready to move on.

You know?

But, in communion with the

infinite, eternal, triune God

of freedom and love, there

will always be more to know,

always be more to love,

always be more to enjoy.

There will always be a

further up and a farther in,

as Lewis said at the end of

the Chronicles of Narnia.

And this life will just be

the cover and title page.

Or as Jonathan Edwards said

at the end of his

dissertation concerning the

end for which God created

the world, he said,

let the most perfect union

with God be represented by

something at an infinite

height above us.

And the eternally increasing

union of the saints with God

by something that is

ascending constantly towards

that infinite height,

moving upwards with a

given velocity.

You have to love how they

spoke in the 18th century,

right?

And that is to continue

thus to move to all

eternity, he says.

That like infinite lines

approaching each other,

we'll never fully be able

to plumb the depths of God

in God's majesty and

greatness and beauty.

What a gift that God has

made us for that.

That we would have the

privilege as utterly

dependent contingent

creatures on him to get

to glorify him forever.

Okay, let's pause there.

We have a little extra time

for questions this morning.

So feel free, we can talk

about the end for which God

created the world, or we can

kind of talk about anything

in this class.

Luke's here, thankfully, so he

can answer all the hard

questions.

But what comments or

questions or thoughts do you

have as we kind of wrap up

this class on the doctrine

of creation?

We can spend the next 10,

15 minutes just talking.

Yeah, Beth?

Where does suffering fit in

this picture?

Yeah, where does suffering

fit in this picture?

Right.

Yeah, well, I think Scripture

says a couple things about

suffering, doesn't it?

You know, one, it does admit

that suffering is part of the

fall, right?

But that even suffering

doesn't fall outside of God's

purposes of glorifying himself

and us glorifying God, right?

I think this is the beauty of

the biblical worldview, that even

suffering doesn't sort of negate,

right, the ultimate purpose for

which God created the world.

Because God will ultimately

redeem even those things for his

glory, right?

I wonder if it's related, but I'm

thinking, you know, if you're

talking to a non-believer, right?

Yeah.

And he's near, he says, you know,

hey, what's the purpose?

Why are we here?

Why are we here?

Yeah.

And you say, point two, well,

it's, you know, God's glory.

That would need some translation,

wouldn't it?

Right.

Yeah.

And a non-believer saying, are you

getting to look around?

Yeah.

Things are awful.

Yeah.

Right.

So, what's your response to that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that's really good.

I think people seeing the

brokenness of the world is such a

good entree into understanding

the scriptural storyline, right?

Because what suffering tells us,

what evil tells us, right, is that

our relationship with God is

deeply broken and needs to be

fixed, right?

It just screams that, that

something is broken and needs to be

fixed, that somehow we're

separated from God and need to be

united to him.

And that is exactly what

Christianity is all about, that God

was willing to come into a world of

suffering and pain and brokenness and

to actually bear that into himself so

that we can be brought back to him

without our own suffering and

wickedness.

All the ways in which we

contribute to that, God's willing to

come and bear the consequences that

for us so that we can be reunited to

him, so we can start to live in new

communities where we kind of push back

the darkness, right?

Which is kind of what we're meant to be

doing as the church.

But it's also a promise, right?

What we see in Jesus is also a promise

that the suffering and evil of the world

won't last forever, that it will come to

an end one day.

That God's purpose in creation isn't

going to be stopped.

But it is.

You know, the problem of suffering is

one of those, I mean, it's probably one

of the top, like, three questions,

right, that we have when talking to

non-believers.

But I have found that just, even in my

own heart, thinking of it that way,

that, man, when I see evil and

brokenness in the world, is that not a

sign that our relationship with this

God has been fractured deeply.

In a very, in a deep way we probably

don't even really understand the depths

of.

And yet God is acting and has acted

supremely to bridge that chasm for us.

Yeah.

Yeah, Susan.

So I have observed in this

short lifetime that when I refuse to

accept reality, I, when I concoct an

alternate reality, even over a small

thing, smaller thing, I do myself

hard.

If I get laid off from a job that I refuse

to accept that I've been laid off, and I

don't do anything to look for the next

job, or I keep going to that place when

I've been locked out of it.

So if it is true that there's a

created a fraud, coming to live God,

who's actively described in the Bible,

it's in my own self-interest to

conform my life to that reality.

I'm just fighting my time, dooming

myself.

Yeah.

If I don't come and choose sin.

Yeah.

And isn't this sort of like cascading of

brokenness in the world, like, okay,

there are natural disasters in the

world, granted, right?

But, I mean, I would posit that 99.9%

of the real suffering in the world is

due to human beings trying to glorify

themselves and live for their own glory

and not live for the glory of God,

which has to then cascade out into the

love of others, right?

The reason why there's suffering and

poverty in so many parts of the world

today is because evil, selfish human

beings are glorifying themselves and not

taking their responsibility as humans or as

leaders, thankfully.

You know?

Yeah.

Because we're part of the system, right?

Exactly.

Even so come, Lord Jesus.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, Luke, go ahead.

I've thought about this problem of, like,

this feeling, this intuition that we have

that for God, the purpose of creation for God,

for it to be God's own glory, that intuition

that we have is like, oh, it's kind of selfish.

Yeah.

Is there a selfishness there?

But I think what's helped me is I think about,

so I think about, hey, what would I rather it be?

Yeah.

What would the alternative be?

Yeah.

What would I want God to, you know, like,

what do I want a good person to do?

I want them to be, I want them to serve justice

and love and, you know, maybe you ask somebody

else in the world, like, okay, if the purpose

of life isn't glorify God, what is the purpose

of life?

It's like to be a good person, like, in that sense,

serve immorality or whatever.

But I think one of the issues is when we think

of God as being on our level, we think of things

like morality and justice and love as being

some kind of standard above which God himself

must submit, when in reality, God is the love.

God is the justice.

God is the goodness.

So it's like anything that anybody else can come

up with, a good thing about the creative world

that is a worthy thing that we should submit

our life to or whatever, it's only just one part

of what God is in himself.

So it's like, it's not enough that you serve justice

as the ideal of your life.

Justice is a person and that person is also love

and goodness and everything else.

So by glorifying God, you're not only glorifying

those things that we naturally feel like,

oh, we should live for, but also everything else

that's good and the wrong get bundled up and it's not

even, you know, it's just a portion of what,

you know, I don't care about the same portion,

but, you know, it's only a little taste of what God is

in itself, right?

Yeah.

So I think that's been helpful for me.

Yeah, that's really helpful, Luke.

Thanks.

Yeah.

Let's see, Matt, you had your hand up

and then we'll go over here.

I don't know what Chris meant when he asked

this question.

Yeah.

What I thought that Chris asked this question was,

if somebody, you know, asks, you know,

the big question or what sounds like a big question,

if I don't feel comfortable handling that,

you know, if I wrestle with, oh, the purpose

and everything is, you know, the glory of God,

what I could say is, you know,

there are some things that are beyond me,

you know, and I'm not sure how to answer that question,

but here is what I do understand.

And then taking it down to, you know,

given evil, you know, how can God use that for good?

And I think of Romans 8, 29 or so.

Sure, sure.

What is God's purpose in salvation?

That Jesus would be the firstborn among many brethren.

That's right.

That, you know, my purpose here is to become more like God

and serve the purpose of having dominion

that God originally intended.

That's good, man.

Yeah, that's good.

So all of that clearly shows that a lot of things are beyond me.

But focusing on what I think by God's grace I do understand,

you may actually get more accurately what people were talking to.

Sure.

Yeah, that's helpful, Matt.

Thanks.

Yeah, let's go over here.

How would you respond to other Christians

who claim that certain nations suffer,

or that God intentionally makes certain nations suffer more than others

due to the sins of the people from that nation?

I don't know if I'm phrasing it correctly,

but like other Christians,

other people who claim that God is intentionally choosing

to make certain nations suffer,

because they claim that the people kind of,

I don't know,

like they claim that the people turned away from God.

Sure.

And so this is,

their suffering is as a result of their own actions.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, how would we respond as Christians

if someone, a fellow Christian says like,

well, those people over there,

that nation over there,

they're suffering because they're particularly bad sinners.

Right?

Right?

Yeah.

It's interesting that there was a moment in Jesus's life

when people came to him and said,

oh, did you hear about the tower that fell

on all those people and they died?

Did you hear about that?

And Jesus says,

do you think that those people are worse sinners

because they died in that accident?

And then he says,

I tell you, unless you repent,

the same thing will happen to you.

So Jesus himself does not kind of play the game

of like, who's the worst sinner

and that's why bad things are happening to them.

In fact, Jesus will even look at the man born blind

and said, this wasn't because of his sin

or his parents' sin.

He was born blind so that I could get the glory

in healing him.

Right?

So the reality is,

is that according to the Bible,

we're all sinners in desperate need of salvation

and that none of us is in the place of God

to say why certain historical events

are or are not happening.

With that being said,

you know, we do reap what we sow, right?

Like if there is a nation

where the leader of that nation

decides to like slaughter its own people,

right?

Is that because those people were sinners?

No, it's because that person

is doing something that's wicked.

Wicked, right?

That's clear, right?

And God is against that wickedness, right?

But I just think we need to be very careful

to sort of look at another group of people

or another nation state

that's undergoing duress or trial or suffering

and sort of draw a direct line between that

and particular sins that we might see, right?

I think the scriptures would have us look

more towards ourself and our own communities

and say, how do we need to be repenting?

And then how do we need to be loving them well

even if there are quote unquote enemies?

Yeah.

Matt, did you want to jump in on that?

I think everything you said is right,

but I think it's helpful

if somebody's thinking in that way

to acknowledge that at times

the Bible, you know, reveals historically

that yes, the reason why these people were punished

was because of their sin.

Yeah, sure.

That's true.

Yeah.

But the Bible revealed that directly.

Mm.

And then...

Very well said, yeah.

On the other hand,

as we look at a situation today

to acknowledge we're not,

just like you said, we're not God.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Yeah, there are instances in the Old Testament

where God does send judgment on nations,

but, you know.

And revelation saying...

That's correct.

That's right.

That's right.

Yeah, that's right.

Good.

Thank you, Matt.

That's good.

Javani, yeah.

Yeah, so there are some traditions,

some Christian traditions

that emphasize a lot

the role of creation,

like the goal of creation

as being united with God

as its final...

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.