Who is Jesus? The Truth That Transforms Lives

Matt Edmundson: Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service.

We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps

us live a more meaningful life.

We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith, and a place

where you can contribute and grow.

Our service will last about an And in a few seconds, you'll meet our hosts for our

service who will introduce today's talk.

After the talk, we will have a time of worship and reflection, after which we

head into Conversation Street, where we look at your stories and questions.

Now we want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church, and we've got a

few ways in which you can do just that.

Firstly, you can engage with Crowd from any device during our live

stream, and if you're up for it Why not invite a few friends over and

experience the service together?

Church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others.

And one of the easiest ways for you to do that is join one of our

mid week groups where we meet.

Online together to catch up and discover more about the amazingness of Christ.

You can also subscribe to our fairly new podcast called What's The Story,

where we deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people.

More information about All of these things can be found on our website at www.

crowd.

church or you can reach out to us on social media

John Harding: at crowd.

Matt Edmundson: church.

If you are new to crowd or new to the Christian faith and would like to know

what your next steps to take are, why not head over to our website crowd.

church Next, for more details,

and now, the moment you've been waiting for is here, our online

church service starts right now.

Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church.

My name is Matt.

Beside me is the beautiful Claire Gare, who is, you got, can you see

it on camera just about, show it.

Brought me

Claire Glare: knitting.

And, just so you know, I've got a hot Ribena in here.

I am bringing the chilled, relActsd vibe.

Matt Edmundson: You so totally are bringing the chilled, relaxed vibe.

We were getting drinks earlier, I said to Claire, do you want a drink?

She went, oh no, or maybe a hot water.

And then you saw the Ribena, it's a bit dull, and then you saw the

Ribena and you thought, I'm in there.

And then you got your knitting

Claire Glare: out.

And then, yeah, just to completely flummox them, and then I was like,

oh, I'm matching with my knitting.

There we go, we'll see if I get any more knitting done.

I've got my notepad and pen as well.

So

Matt Edmundson: you can take some spiritual notes whilst you're knitting.

Indeed.

Claire Glare: And learn, live and learn.

We are here to learn.

Matt Edmundson: We so totally are.

A very warm welcome to you.

It doesn't matter if you don't have knitting.

You can still join us.

I don't have knitting.

Hey, Miriam.

Hey, Andy.

It's good to see you.

Do say hi in the comments if you're watching us.

We can see

Claire Glare: them there as well now.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah, I love that.

Matt Edmundson: See tech is getting better, isn't it?

So good.

It's getting better, yeah, the

Claire Glare: carpet's nice in here as well.

Matt Edmundson: Random.

Just a random.

We have very plush carpets because we like the soundproofing is the right answer.

And

Claire Glare: I quite fancied nicking a bit, so for our

Matt Edmundson: house, much more plush than my house.

Just going to steal the carpet from the Crowd Church studio.

God won't mind.

But yes, welcome to Crowd.

We're an online church who, welcomes all people, whether you knit, whether

you don't, whether you like plush carpet or naff carpet, whatever your carpet

is in your house, you are welcome.

You're welcome here.

Hey, Chris.

Hey, Jenny.

Hey, guys.

Doing great to see you in the comments.

Warm welcome to you.

If this is your first time with us, very warm welcome to you.

Crowd is an online church.

We just love churchy stuff, don't we really?

Church, that's probably not the right thing to say, is it?

We love Jesus.

We do.

Just pull your microphone towards your mouth a little bit.

There you go.

See,

Claire Glare: I can't even work microphone.

That's

Matt Edmundson: why I come.

That's why we've got the knitting.

We've got the knitting.

We have.

Yeah.

Welcome to you.

Great that you're here.

We live stream from our studio with the plush carpet every Sunday evening and

we have a different set of hosts today.

You've got me and you've got Claire and we've got, who's speaking today?

The lovely John Harding.

The right reverend John Harding is speaking today.

And the girl, I should Is he a reverend?

I don't know.

Claire Glare: I have no idea.

Okay.

All right.

Sorry, John.

We don't

Matt Edmundson: know.

I don't know what He's a good, he's a good egg.

Can you wear a collar around your neck

John Harding: if you're a good egg?

Claire Glare: I think you can wear a collar around your neck if, don't we all

Matt Edmundson: have collars?

No, do you know what I mean, like a right reverend dog collar.

Yeah, okay, find out, we'll go and investigate.

That light is really bright, I'm going to have to turn

that down when we do the talk.

Anyway, uh, yeah, we've got John Harding tonight talking to us.

We actually close out the series in acts today.

Boop, which is a beautiful

Claire Glare: thing.

And I launched into song, been around the world and aye aye.

Finished acts today.

I don't know when, I don't know why.

Matt Edmundson: I totally wondered where you were going with that.

I'm not going to lie.

With that song.

Aye aye.

Write in the comments, who did that song?

Who was the artist?

I think

Claire Glare: it's Lisa Stansfield.

I think

Matt Edmundson: you're right.

I'm an 80s girl.

Yeah, I think you're right.

I think it is Lisa Stansfield.

Yeah, there we go.

Yeah, been around the world.

Claire Glare: Other people are good singers as well.

I think that was a one hit wonder.

So don't worry if you've never heard of her, that's okay.

Matt Edmundson: Or if you've never actually heard of the 80s either.

If you

Claire Glare: weren't born, we'd recommend it as a decade.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, totally.

It was, I still maintain the 80s was probably the best decade.

Claire Glare: In fact, my daughter, random, was singing Cindy Lauper's Girls

Just Want To Have Fun the other day.

And she, and then I started joining in and she was like.

You know this song and I was like yeah,

Matt Edmundson: you didn't know I am from the cool decade.

Of course I know this song.

Why would I not know this song?

Yes.

80s music aside I totally lost my train of thought.

I'm sorry.

Claire Glare: This is why I'm here.

Matt Edmundson: This way to totally distract me.

No, not at all.

It's great.

We love the banter.

As you can tell.

From our light hearted nature.

Oh Miriam, we love you too.

Oh yeah, bless her.

I love you both.

We love you.

And you make us laugh and feel comfortable as well.

You're a legend.

Thanks for joining us.

And yeah, like I say, if you're just joining in, if you're just connecting

with us, warm welcome to you.

We are an online church.

We just do this.

We're going to do the talk with the Right Reverend John Harding.

We're not entirely sure who's the Right Reverend, but we're

going to do it with him.

And then Claire and I are going to be back for Conversation Street where we're

going to look at some questions, we're going to carry on the conversation, we're

going to have a bit of a chat, aren't we?

We are.

About all kinds of things.

And as you can tell, we're chilled at the same time.

We have a bit of fun.

We love the banter.

We do.

Claire Glare: And I think we'll just, see what the Holy Spirit's got to say.

Matt Edmundson: Exactly.

I'm all ears.

Oh, look, Donna Jo.

Oh, Donna Jo.

DJ's in the comments.

Claire Glare: I almost rang you today, actually, DJ, on WhatsApp.

That is a total side of Grab your cup of tea.

Really just miss you, my lovely DJ.

She's a legend, DJ.

Too long to not have a chat.

We will do it soon.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, DJ.

DJ, I'm going to be in North Carolina at some point.

Just pointing that out.

I think I'm going over, I think it's June, don't know.

Anyway, DJ's in North Carolina.

She's an absolute legend.

So talk about 80s, Top Gun mug, Highway to the Danger Zone, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaking of Highway to the Danger Zone, I'm not, we're not

Claire Glare: going to do the karaoke, there's all sorts

of karaoke there, we're going

Matt Edmundson: sticking, yeah, no.

Everybody's going, please don't sing Highway to the Danger Zone, Matt.

What we are going to do, Highway to the Danger Zone,

speaking of Top Gun, Maverick.

That's again, it's John Harding's talk.

Then Clare, and did you like that segue, then Clare and I will be right back

after the talk for Conversation Street.

Grab your notebooks, grab your pens, get busy in the comments.

We'd love to hear your questions, your thoughts on what John's got to say,

and we'll be back shortly after this.

Here we go.

John Harding: Hi there Crowd Church, today we are in the final section of the

Book of Acts, the story of the birth of the earliest church and the expansion

of Christianity across the known world.

Today our reading is from Acts 28 verse 11 through to the

Acts 28:11

very end of the Book of Acts.

Now if you've been tracking with us in Crowd Church you will know that the

Apostle Paul, once appointed by the Jewish people to persecute the first Christians.

He is now preaching Jesus and planting churches and he has got

himself into a lot of trouble for it.

The Jewish people considered this message about Jesus the Messiah blasphemy.

There could be no God except Yahweh.

And the Romans who occupied the whole region they considered it treason.

There could be no king.

Except Caesar.

But at the heart of this new faith, the way of Christianity, was the

message that Jesus was both the one true God and the one true King.

And so those who proclaimed this message, like Paul, often ended up persecuted,

imprisoned, Now when things got really bad for Paul, he used his leverage as

a Roman citizen to demand his right for a trial and audience with Caesar in

Rome, and that's been the story so far.

Paul, under arrest, accompanied by armed guards, is heading to Rome.

We pick up the story that after three months shipwrecked on the island of

Malta, they set sail over to Rome, where Paul is placed under house arrest.

It's quite a relActsd arrangement, probably because He'd rescued the

soldiers when the ship went down at sea.

Now Acts ends with uncertainty.

We do not know how it ends for Paul.

Was he released?

Did he see how his days in prison in Rome?

Did he get an audience with Caesar?

What was the outcome of that?

We don't really know, but our best guess is that after two years in prison, Paul

was released and he went straight back to his work planting churches in Macedonia.

That's hinted at in 1 Timothy 1.

3.

And then in Spain, Romans 28, before being re arrested and then executed

by Nero around 68 AD, is the context.

And I want to draw out three points for us today from the story.

I want us to think about the primary question.

Number two, I want us to think about the primary Conversation.

And number three, I want us to think about the primary context, the

question, the conversation, the context.

Not quite alliterated, but near enough.

Point one, the primary question.

What is the most important question that we will ever have to wrestle with in life?

The number one question or issue to which all other questions

and issues are secondary.

What we see here when Paul gets to Rome is he calls his fellow Jews,

his ethnic people group, and it says each day, from morning till

evening, Paul tried to convince them About Jesus, that's verse 23.

The most important fundamental question for any person is this, who is Jesus?

Who is Jesus?

There is no question more important than that.

Some people think Jesus never existed but, there is no academic historical doubt

that Jesus of Nazareth walked this planet.

Others say he was just a teacher or a prophet.

Even to this day, in the Muslim religion, they teach that

Jesus was the sinless prophet.

But when you actually read the eyewitness accounts of Jesus life,

when you read the words that Jesus said of himself, you realise that Jesus

left no room for those perspectives.

Jesus, according to Jesus, Jesus was God on Earth, God as one of us, God in flesh

and blood so that flesh and blood could be sacrificed for our sins on the cross.

Jesus was God in human form, the man who would rescue us from our sin.

Now with this, C.

S.

Lewis, in his book, Mere Christianity, is trying to stop people saying, to quote,

foolish things about Jesus, like Jesus was just a good moral teacher but not God.

And Lewis writes, a man Who said the sort of things that Jesus said

would not be a great moral teacher, he would either be a lunatic or he

would be a liar like a devil of hell.

You've got to make your choice, lunatic or liar.

Either this man was and is the son of God or else a madman or something worse.

You can shut him up for a fool.

You can spit at him and kill him as a demon, or you can fall at his feet and

call him Lord and God, but let's not come up with some patronising nonsense

about him being a great human teacher.

He has not left that open to us, and he did not intend to.

So the most important question in life is this, who is Jesus?

The only satisfactory answer to that, according to the Bible, according

to Jesus, is that he is God's Son, our Saviour, and that he is worthy

of our worship and our very lives.

It's about who Jesus is.

Point two, the primary conversation.

I want us to think about the topic of our conversation, how we talk to people,

and what we talk about with people.

Here's Paul, he's under house arrest, his freedom's restricted, he's awaiting trial.

Which could lead to death, but he's talking about Jesus.

And the thing is some of them were convinced and believed, but

others, many of them, were not.

But that doesn't seem to surprise Paul.

It doesn't seem to put him off.

And then in verse 26, there's a quote from the Old Testament that basically

says the Jewish people would hear the message of Jesus, but not understand it.

They would see Jesus, but not really see him for who he really was.

They would be blind to who Jesus was.

And I, I think many of us, in that situation, we would use that as an excuse.

What's the point of speaking to people about Jesus because they won't respond?

They might reject him, they might reject me, people won't be interested, they

don't want to know, so why bother?

That does not put Paul off at all, he simply shares the message, he

simply speaks of who Jesus is.

And I want that to be a challenge to me, to you, to all of us,

those of us who know Jesus.

To speak of Jesus.

What if people are not interested?

Speak of Jesus.

But what if they've got difficult questions about church and ethics?

Speak of Jesus.

But what if they say no, I'm not interested, what if they reject me?

Speak of Jesus.

I would say one of the biggest problems facing the church in the western world

is that we simply don't speak of Jesus.

Jesus is not the primary topic of our conversation.

We'll talk about how to make our churches more attractive to people.

We'll talk about what people can and can't do to their bodies, their ethics.

We'll talk about how to be better people and succeed at life, but we need to

focus on actually speaking about Jesus.

I read a great book a number of years ago by a guy called Karl

Madaris, called Speaking of Jesus, The Art of Non Evangelism.

This guy'd spent decades living in Muslim countries, and what he'd

learnt was that if you talk about Christianity, people are put off.

If you talk about church, people are put off, but when we talk

about Jesus, people are interested.

They're drawn in, they're attracted, there is something compelling,

attractive about this person, Jesus.

There's this quote that people tend to use in response to what I'm saying, in

response to any call to speak about Jesus.

They say, ah yes, don't forget Saint Francis of Assisi.

He said, preach the gospel and if necessary, use words.

Preach the gospel, if necessary, use words.

It's a call, to make sure our actions reveal something of who Jesus is.

I've got a bit of a problem with that quote, not least because there's

no evidence whatsoever that Saint Francis of Assisi ever said that.

In fact, if you read about his life, everywhere he went he spoke about Jesus.

He used words.

He proclaimed the Gospel.

But actually, whilst actions are vital, in and of themselves they won't lead anyone

into a saving relationship with Jesus.

We need words, works and wonders.

So point one, the primary question, who is Jesus?

He's God, He's King, He loves you, He's the one who can

free you from shame and guilt.

Point two, the primary conversation is about Jesus.

As humans, we talk about what we love, we talk about what we enjoy,

what's important to us, so let's talk about Jesus with those around us.

And finally, the primary context.

In other words Where and when should we speak of Jesus?

What is the optimal place for it?

Where has God called me to share the message of Jesus?

I think the lesson we learn from Paul in this passage in the end of

Acts is this, share about Jesus.

Wherever you are, just where you are, Paul is in prison under house

arrest, chained to a guard, and he's still speaking about Jesus.

It's not a good place, it's not a good time, but he's doing it anyway.

It reminds me a little bit of my nan the lady who took my mum in when she left

home, not a blood relation, I called her nan, a lady called Ellen Nell.

When she was in her 80s, my mum would take us to the new shopping mall in

the city and mum would go round and do the shopping, me and my brother would

wander round the shops and my nan, Nell, she would be left on her own,

on a bench, a seat, to wait for us.

And time again we would meet up at the bench at the agreed time and there

would be someone sat next to my nan, often in tears, with my nan praying

for them or leading them to the Lord.

She just took an opportunity to speak of Jesus.

I want us to consider the Apostle Paul here at the end of his life,

chained to a guard, awaiting trial, helping people to answer the

question of who Jesus really is.

Speaking of Jesus, even when he knew people would reject him and the message,

and he's doing all of that from a context that we would describe as less than ideal.

Why?

Why would he do that?

Jesus is God.

Jesus is King.

Jesus loves you.

He knows you, he's got a great plan and purpose for your life, he's revealed

himself to us, and as we respond to him, he rescues us, he saves us, he cleanses

us, he brings us into his family.

He is so wonderful.

There's no one like him, no one compares to him, and why would we not want to share

such good news with everyone we meet?

Matt Edmundson: Welcome back.

Thanks, John.

That was, for John Harding, that was actually quite a remarkably short talk.

Claire Glare: It was extremely succinct.

I

Matt Edmundson: like that word.

Succinct.

Amen.

Claire Glare: Great talk.

It

Matt Edmundson: was a great talk.

Great talk.

I think we're just a little bit flabbergasted, John, I'm not going to lie.

Maybe he was busy that day.

Who knows?

Who knows?

But yeah, welcome back.

It's great that you're with us.

If you joined us throughout the talk you are watching

Crowd Online Church Livestream.

My name is Matt.

Beside me is the beautiful Claire Glare and her knitting.

Claire Glare: I'm halfway through because I don't think I can

talk and knit at the same time.

I'm not that clever.

John Harding: No, but you can talk.

Matt Edmundson: You were knitting whilst you were listening to the talk

Claire Glare: knitting.

I've done about three rows.

That's as quick as I am.

That's why it took my daughter's scarf a year to be knitted.

Matt Edmundson: Wow.

There we go.

Fair enough.

Fair enough.

It's great to have you back.

Great that you joined us.

Now if you've got any questions, any thoughts, write them in the comments

because it's Conversation Street.

We're going to get into them.

And so what's Miriam put here?

This is a great talk, John.

Yes, absolutely.

Andy, often when people talk about Jesus in this country,

it's not in a positive way.

Agree or disagree?

Claire Glare: Yeah, I agree.

Oh no, actually, sorry, Andy,

Matt Edmundson: put this down slightly, and that's good.

Okay, so we can see you.

There we go.

Claire Glare: There we go.

And I think I would say that when you get people talking about Jesus, I,

unless you're like, A devil worshipper, which I would say the vast majority

of people in this country are, in this country, we're talking about the UK.

I think that people, like the C.

S.

Lewis quote would, they would say Jesus is a nice person, but, and so

I think that they would they would be positive about Jesus, less so maybe

about the church, less so maybe about Christians, less about, about other

aspects, but yeah, I but but I think it's that challenge, isn't it, that

John has given us of, but actually when we really get down to discussing who

Jesus is, then I think probably the heckles raise up and it's you're saying

that Jesus demands something of me or, or is expecting a response from me.

Then, oh, I'm not sure about him now.

Yeah, I don't know.

What do you think?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I think it's an interesting point, isn't it?

Because you totally, there are people that don't talk about Jesus in a

specific, in a positive light, who I think, they're usually associating

the negative comments with.

The Church, like you say, the Jesus Followers, the Jesus

Freaks, as we like to call them.

Great song.

Jesus Freaks, again, 19, yeah, we've moved on a decade.

We've moved on from the 80s, which we were talking about earlier, if you're confused.

But, so I think it's interesting that not a lot of people talk about Jesus

positively, they're often referring, like you say, to his church, to the

believers, for a number of reasons.

They can get angry, they can be hypocritical, they can be very judgmental,

they can be graceless, they can be greedy.

They commit every single atrocity known to man, but they do it under

the guise of being a Christian, right?

And, And so that I think quite rightly causes people to get really

knocked off, which is another good phrase knocked off to get, I think

that causes people to get angry.

And I think I can understand why that is because I get angry with it.

Do you know what I mean?

You read about scandal, you read about that kind of stuff and you just go,

this is just so wrong on so many levels.

So I think, I agree in that sense that actually.

The church has not done Jesus any favours in its representation

of him in a lot of ways.

The thing that surprises me in all of this is that knowing that,

Jesus still chose it anyway.

Claire Glare: His way of saving the world.

Yeah.

Honestly, if we'd have had it in our hand, in our gift to do it,

John Harding: we'd have done it completely differently.

We

Matt Edmundson: would.

We'd have been like, you're not in.

I

Claire Glare: think, just come on, get with the program, sort it out.

Matt Edmundson: Will you please sort it out?

Claire Glare: Yeah.

I've died for you.

Matt Edmundson: Enough already.

Yeah.

It's funny, isn't it?

And but I think you're right.

It's it's still his chosen vessel to bring his kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.

And you, so being a part of the church, I say that the church

is the hope of the world.

I love that phrase that the church is the hope of the world.

But I look at the people in the church and go, Oh my goodness.

Now I'm not judging other people.

I'm counting myself in that.

We are broken people in a lot of ways.

And we and we I mean, we can have faith and we can trust God and we can see

mountains move and we do and we know God and we understand God, but we are

far from perfect in a lot of ways.

And

Claire Glare: and I think the more actually we recognize the sin in

our own lives, the greater our understanding of the gospel and Jesus is.

And I think when we make our own sins small.

And I do it every day.

I am sure.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

We don't practice that repentant heart each day.

Then I think Jesus isn't magnified.

Yeah.

In the, in that way.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

It's an interesting one, isn't it?

I totally agree with you and I think that, I remember something Ian

Morrison said to me years ago, Ian Ian.

Love Ian.

Love Ian.

An old friend of, a mutual friend of ours, going back a long time, and

I remember something he said to me, he said, you know what, the more,

the closer I get to Christ, the more aware of my own sin I become.

And it's a really interesting one, isn't it?

So you, it's not a case of the longer I work, walk with

Christ, the less sinful I become.

I think it's the longer I walk with Christ, the more aware of my sin I become.

Claire Glare: If we allow it.

And I think that's my, yeah, that's my, that was what I was thinking today when I

was, we were talking about this and I was like, oh God, help me to give you time.

Because actually we do have to stop and listen.

Yeah, we do.

And ask the question.

Hi.

Check in with God.

Rather than just assume that everything is all hunky dory and just ask and wait,

not rush on and just give that space.

And is there anything?

Okay.

I'm listening.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

I'm

John Harding: so sorry.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Yeah.

Very true.

So this is a long answer to the question when people talk about Jesus in the

country, it's not in a positive way.

Yeah.

Claire Glare: Chris has written one.

Do you think some people believe that Christian faith has been watered down?

Matt Edmundson: I believe that Christian faith has been watered down.

I think I water it down.

It's your fault.

John Harding: It's not my fault.

Will you just stop it?

Claire Glare: Trying.

I chose Ibiza instead of water.

No, that's a

Matt Edmundson: digression.

It is a digression.

So why do you think it's been watered down?

Let's maybe start there.

Claire Glare: Because we, I think we are fearful.

We are fearful that we'll be rejected.

That, that, that we'll be persecuted, and people are persecuted around the world.

Faith.

Do you

Matt Edmundson: mean Christians, as in Christians don't want

to stand up for their faith as much because of the backlash?

Is that what you're talking

Claire Glare: about?

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Yeah.

That, yeah.

I think, yeah.

And then I guess it's that thing of being diluted when you mix.

Isn't it that actually when you don't spend time with other believers,

when you don't spend time reading the word of God in God's presence,

that, that you become less like him.

And I think I was just when I think when you listen, I, it's a

bit warm in here, but um, when you listen to a really good talk, like

we've just listened to with John.

I can feel, I don't know about you, but I feel myself getting all excited, and

and I feel a little bit like Moses, a tiny little bit like Moses, like what

is it we all with unveiled faces will reveal and, and when we don't do that, we

don't listen to the word of God, we don't talk about our faith of other people.

As much with people who don't know Jesus yet, because I think that's as faith

building as, to answer their questions legitimately and genuinely then we

don't experience that nearness of him.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's a powerful point, isn't it?

And I've funnily enough, I've been thinking a lot about this week because

interestingly, I was listening to a podcast where they were talking about

how one of the things that we've managed to do in the West, which hasn't helped

us is we've connected church with a building rather than a people group.

And so we talk about going to church rather than being part of a church.

And so when we go to church, we then get to a point where actually

church We take it or leave it, right?

And then it becomes about consumerism.

So then it becomes about I don't the worship, so I'm not going anymore, or I

don't like this, so I'm not going anymore.

And so it becomes about what I get out of church, rather than seeing the church,

which is the body of Christ, right?

And family.

And family, and that whole sense of community and understanding,

actually, if I don't get involved with church, not the church, the

building, but if I don't get involved with church, The whole body suffers.

And it, and Paul uses this great analogy, doesn't he?

And it's in essence, he's saying just your foot can't be bothered to get

out of bed today, it's not going to bode well if I want to go off and do

something, do you know what I mean?

Or it so I think by connecting church with a building rather than understanding

that we are the church, we've watered faith down and I think we've.

And again I'm moaning about the West Church, the Western Church, because

that's the church that I'm part of.

And I feel like I can talk about it.

But we've also taken Christianity to a point where we just say, what you have

to do is get to a place where you say this prayer, and then you're a Crisbo.

You're in.

Well done.

Part of the club.

And it's not necessarily a bad thing.

But very

Claire Glare: individual thing.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

And it's a one time event.

I've just, like a buy in a house, I just signed the mortgage.

And then it doesn't matter what, and it's not it's not like that, really

Jesus never said, can be a Christian.

But what, when you read the gospels, Jesus said, follow me, that's a lifestyle.

That's a life thing, right?

And so I think with a mixture of those

Claire Glare: two things, not even make Christians, but make disciples, isn't it?

Yeah.

It is.

Matt Edmundson: And the word disciple is an interesting word, isn't it?

And what that actually means, and I think it's Oh, what's the new book?

Following the Way, Practicing the Way, John Mark Comer, who did

the book The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, all about Sarah.

I thought he was the hurry one.

He's the hurry one.

No, don't, no, the opposite of hurry.

I, no.

There's a Phil Collins song.

There is, I was just thinking that.

You can't hurry love.

And back to the 80s again.

But he's written this book called Practicing the Way and

interesting how similar sort of phraseology is coming out of that.

It's like actually the word disciple means the word apprentice, to be

apprenticed by Jesus, that's a lifestyle thing, you go and sit under him,

you be with him, you become like him and you do the things that he does.

And I think because in the West we've got so busy, churches are building

in a program and because becoming a Christian is, a one time event, that

then I think waters down the faith of the actual believers themselves,

they become weak, they become sickly.

Which then leads to this whole thing about Christians not

being seen in a positive light.

I think the Christians that have a strong close walk with God, they might

have a theology which is different to yours, or they might have an opinion

about certain, certainly a lot of cultural things they'll have an opinion

about them, but most of the time you you go I don't necessarily agree with

you, but I I want to be around you.

Attractive, isn't it?

It's attractive, yeah.

The Christians that are half-hearted, half in, half out, can't make

their mind up one way or the other.

They're the ones that people really struggle to be around 'cause they're

the ones which are angry and bitter.

They're the ones making all kinds of weird and wonderful statements that

just, aren't loving, aren't kind.

They're the ones that often get included, that's why you would often

use the word intolerance when talking about some of the Christian beliefs.

And yeah I've just gone off on one now.

Sorry, Chris.

Hope that answers your question.

Do I think some people believe that Christian faith has been worn down?

Yes, I think we've not helped ourselves in that sense.

But I guess

Claire Glare: we, we are called to be salt and light, aren't we?

Yes.

And gosh, this is a really old one.

Do you know this old Christian song who be the salt if the salt loses its flavor?

Yes,

Matt Edmundson: I do and I'm not gonna sing it.

There

Claire Glare: we go.

But it's a good one.

. And so we are that salty

Matt Edmundson: nurse and that actually is all about being distinctive.

Salt is not, do you know what I mean?

Salt is distinctive, it's flavorsome.

And I think.

When Christians just try to blend into the background, I think we have a

problem, and I just, I don't, I think, do you remember the movie Karate Kid,

80s reference, 80s movie reference, not my cup of tea, Karate Kid, Mr Miyagi,

he says to Daniel san in the movie, when you walk along the road, walk left side,

safe, walk right side safe, walk middle of the road, squish, just like grape.

And what he's doing, it's a great reference, by the way.

What he's talking about is this, do one thing or the other, be in, be

out, and if you're in, do it properly.

But when you try and walk this middle line, where you can, you you're not

giving everything over to God, or you, do you know what I mean, there's

things which you're trying to hold back on, where you're just like I'll

do that bit of Christianity over there, and I'll do this bit of what I want

to do over here, and it's not living a life of, It's an unpopular word.

It's not living a life of surrender, it's living a life of doing what I want to do.

That is what Mr.

Miyagi talks about, squish,

Claire Glare: walking in the middle of the road.

But I think surrender is a really good word, isn't it?

And actually, I don't think anyone can argue with you personally

surrendering your life to God.

Yeah.

And I think, it does come down to those choices that we make each day, doesn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Daily.

Choice to pick up our cross and, surrender.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, absolutely.

I agree.

Jenny, you're the second person to mention that book to me today.

Shall I be the third?

Claire Glare: Yeah, go for it.

I can't remember the title.

The guy, Coma, isn't it?

John Mark Comer.

Not Girlfriend in a Coma, which is another 90s, 80s Smith song.

I don't know.

Anyway, Jenny, I'm sorry.

But yeah, I think you should read it.

It sounds like a good

Matt Edmundson: one.

Have you not read The Ruthless Elimination of Harry?

Confession.

No.

Okay.

You're too busy.

I

Claire Glare: just don't read Christian books.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, controversial.

Controversial.

Claire Glare: Sack me.

If I could get out the door, he'd have thrown me down.

I'm locked.

Matt Edmundson: Hey, I don't mind you not reading Christian books as long

as you read my one when I write it.

Are you writing one?

I'm trying to write one at the moment.

Yeah, all yeah, it's taken me three years so far, but about halfway through.

I think

Claire Glare: that's the general way for writing a book.

Yeah, it is.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it is good.

Or maybe we're not talking about the ruthless emanation of hurry.

There's the other one that you do, which has just come out

called practice in the way.

Claire Glare: That's the one that you're talking about is Jenny, which one are you

talking about the ruthless hurry one Or the way one, I don't know, Jesus, he's the

way, the truth and the life, let's stick

Matt Edmundson: to the main menu.

Let's stick to that yeah, absolutely.

Miriam, sometimes when I talk to people, I don't know what to expect,

but all I can do is trust God to give me the right words to say back.

Yeah.

Do you find that's the truth?

. Claire Glare: Yeah, there's a great verse, isn't there?

I dunno where it's from.

Somewhere in the Bible, , it basically says I think it's either a Psalm

or Isaiah or something like that.

Old Testament.

Open your mouth and I will fill it.

Yeah, and I rea I use that for kind of those sorts of conversations where I

don't know what to say, or I'm meeting somebody and I'm asked something and I'm

put on the spot and I'm just like, Jesus.

God help me.

Yeah.

Put your words in my

Matt Edmundson: mouth.

There's also a scripture in the New Testament about

Claire Glare: it.

I suspect there's a few.

It's probably a

Matt Edmundson: theme.

Don't worry about what you shall say.

That's what the Holy Spirit does.

He helps us give us the right words.

It was actually bizarrely in the context of courtrooms, going to, when someone

takes you to court for your faith.

I don't know what to say.

There's another

Claire Glare: scripture that I've written down here that I've not got a quote for.

But it's in be prepared in season and out of season.

Yes, Paul said that, didn't he?

I would say that

Matt Edmundson: was Paul.

Yes.

It's very Paulinian.

Claire Glare: Pauline.

Pauline.

I think is actually the word that you were searching for.

And I

Matt Edmundson: like Paulinian, I'm just making words up, that's

what we do, it's a Christian thing.

It was Practicing The Way, according to Jenny, so yeah, do check out that

book, it's a really interesting book.

I'm about halfway through it, I've been enjoying it, um, it's, I've

listened to a few of his podcasts now where he talks about it.

And really powerful stuff.

And actually going forward with Crowd, some of the stuff he's talked about,

I'm like, this is great because there was some of the ideas and thoughts

we have going forward with Crowd and he's put some language to some

stuff, which has been super helpful.

So we are going to be getting into that.

That's how we

Claire Glare: live, isn't it?

As a community together, how we are on this journey together, how we can

encourage each other, how we can exhort each other and challenge each other.

In love cause it's hard, isn't it?

It's a narrow way.

It's it's not a straight way.

Oh, it is a straight way, but it's a narrow,

Matt Edmundson: It's narrow, but straight.

It's interesting because you're right.

I think, I don't think being a Christian is easy and I don't think

it's not like I, every morning when I sit and read my Bible, sometimes

it's really, it's awesome, and you're just like, Oh, thank you, Jesus.

And then other times you just feel like you're pulling teeth a little bit.

Do you know what I mean?

Like you just try and just going through the motions in some respects.

And it's, and there are times where you're like, you feel God's

telling you to do something, but you want to do entirely the opposite.

You're like, no, get somebody else.

I don't want to do it.

But again, it comes back to that surrender aspect, doesn't it?

And surrender is never straightforward.

It's never easy.

And living in that surrendered life, just get married.

You'll, it's marriage will tell, will show you that surrender

thing is not straightforward.

But yeah have we had many tech issues today?

No, not a single one.

Claire Glare: Apart from you not turning the mic on earlier, but that

Matt Edmundson: was a, Oh yeah, that was pre live stream.

That was a simple fix.

If in

Claire Glare: doubt, turn it off.

Matt Edmundson: Claire's microphone wasn't working.

We're like, why is that not working?

And it's Oh, I've not turned it on.

Okay.

Simple things, but this is why we have, the sort of the 10 minutes beforehand.

What else is in your notes?

I,

Claire Glare: The art of a non evangelism book sounded good

that John was talking about.

Yeah.

When I say that I don't read books.

I could be tempted by that one.

Matt Edmundson: If you ever wonder what to buy Claire for Christmas,

not what to buy Claire for Christmas.

You might not know what to buy, but what not to buy is now quite clear.

Anything that's Christian other than the Bible.

Is this a deliberate thing?

Is this just, you never really got into Christian

Claire Glare: books?

No, I think it, maybe I shouldn't say it I just think that we aren't

very succinct as a Western church.

So I I, my, my take has been that the ones that I've read, They could

have just written it in a chapter.

Oh, you think they're

Matt Edmundson: waffly?

A

Claire Glare: bit waffly.

Yeah.

And and that's not true for all, and I have read some brilliant Christian books.

And but I think I prefer a novel.

Which is awful.

Matt Edmundson: Sorry.

You're just seeing Claire come under conviction on the live stream.

Claire Glare: I'm so sorry.

Do I say no, I do?

Matt Edmundson: No, that's not true.

There's Dave sat at home going, thank you, Jesus, finally.

Who's

John Harding: Dave?

Claire Glare: My husband's called John.

Is that

Matt Edmundson: what you were talking about?

I don't know why I said Dave.

Maybe I was thinking about Dave Connolly.

Dave

John Harding: Connolly's

Claire Glare: going, I've known Claire for 30 years.

Finally she's experiencing some conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Good to do it publicly.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah apparently Andy says there's a lot of good Christian stuff in

Claire Glare: podcasts.

You are so right, Andy.

It's true.

John Harding: It's

Matt Edmundson: true.

I have to be honest, I do prefer a good podcast where

people sit and chat about it.

Do you?

Yeah take John Mark Comer's new book, Practicing the Way.

I've read the book, it's great.

I've made lots of notes on it but I much prefer sitting and listening

to him talk to somebody about it.

What are you laughing at?

Claire Glare: Sorry, Matt's little comment about sending me a

thousand balls of wool, I think.

Of a Christmas turkey.

Sorry, I was just distracted.

No, please don't, I'm not that quick.

I'll be drowning in wool.

Drowning in wool.

Sorry, we digress.

Because of me,

Matt Edmundson: I'm so sorry.

That's alright.

I was saying now.

Oh, Podcast.

What podcast would you recommend, Andy?

Jenny says.

So write your podcast recommendation.

In fact, let's just do that.

In the comments, write down your favourite Christian book and

your favourite Christian podcast.

We'd be

Claire Glare: very interested to know.

I think that would be a really useful thing.

It's Today we were talking about What's The Story.

John Harding: Ah,

Matt Edmundson: love Andy.

You should come host.

That'd be nice, wouldn't it?

What's The Story, by the way, that Andy's put in the comments,

is a crowd church podcast.

And so do check it out, whatsthestorypodcast.

com.

I love the plug there.

We've just released the episode with Tom Grant.

Have you heard that one?

You don't do podcasts either, do you?

Claire Glare: I'm just I'm proper 20th century, 19th century

if I can get away with it.

Pen, paper.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Yeah.

So what's the story?

I do know what it is.

It's where we sit down and we just talk to people about their

story, their Christian story.

How did they, the three key things we want to know, how do people become a Christian?

What's the biggest challenge they faced in life that God's helped them overcome?

And what's their sort of one thing, their one message that God's

taught them throughout all of this?

You've not been on yet, have you?

No, you

Claire Glare: have asked me a few times and I've just not

got round to replying to you.

I will one day.

I'm a bit of a, I'm not very speedy.

Matt Edmundson: Not very speedy.

We've just done an episode with Tom Grant, who he is a Baptist minister.

That works as part of the Eden Project up over in Netherton.

Okay, I saw that, yes.

And so he, him and his wife moved up from the South just felt God.

It's really interesting because, most people want to go to a

nicer house when they move.

They want to go to a nicer estate.

There's this sort of idea of promotion.

I want something bigger, I want something better.

Tom, Emma, no, totally the opposite way.

I'm from down South to an estate in Neverton.

And I imagine pretty rough.

They've been there 10 years and God's done some insanely cool things

and they have this great church.

And just listening to Tom's story about some of the stuff

that is going on is fantastic.

So do check it out.

wts.crowd.church

Claire Glare: Is there merch?

Crowd Church merch.

I was asked whether I wanted a merch and I said yes, but I've not got one yet.

Matt Edmundson: I've not sorted it out yet.

Sadaf was asking me about this the other day.

I do have a Crowd Church hoodie.

They are not for sale as of yet, but they will be for sale soon.

We're going to have a little Crowd Church merch store.

They won't be merch, though.

It's not like we're going to make any profit out of them,

but people do ask me for them.

Do they?

Yeah.

Can I get a crowd hoodie?

I'm like, this is for a church.

And they're like, yeah, this is really cool.

I'm like, knock yourself out, son.

I'll send you the link when they're up and running.

Claire Glare: My husband continues to wear welcoming t shirts that have been

rebranded from our church during the day and he can, he just wears them for work.

Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: why not?

It's great.

Why not?

Why it's not a whatnot, right?

Church merch.

Yeah.

So yes, there will be available at some point.

There is no doubt about it.

Alan Finnegan needs prayer.

Yeah, actually, for those of you that know Alan Finnegan, he's the

guy that passes the church with Tom, Tom Grant, and he does need prayer.

He's been diagnosed with quite a severe illness, and without a miracle, things

are not looking good for Alan so do pray for him and pray for his family praying

that God does some good stuff for him.

So yes hopefully that's answered all the questions.

I just want to go back to what John was talking about, because, Bring it back.

Some sense of control.

One of the things was interesting was he read that quote, which

was ascribed to, was it Assisi?

Yeah.

And he said, I've got a few issues with this, mainly because there's

no actual evidence that Assisi said that quote, I'd never even thought

Claire Glare: about it, but it's really

Matt Edmundson: true.

Yeah.

Now this I thought was interesting because I was thinking about this earlier as well.

This whole concept is a very popular phrase at the moment, critical thinking.

We like critical thinking, which is where we don't assume knowledge or anything

about something just because something is somebody has said something about that.

So the one the example that I saw was to do with J.

K.

Rowling, who is obviously slightly controversial at the moment

because of a perception of how she views Transgender Issues.

Yeah.

And so she's been called transphobic.

And I was watching a conversation where I think it was a teacher said to a student,

What do you think about JK Rowling?

And he said she's not doing very well at the moment.

She's transphobic and people aren't a big fan.

And so the teacher said to him where did you get that idea from?

And he said, it's just common opinion.

It's yeah, but have you actually gone and figured it out for yourself?

Have you read what she said?

And it's no, so he's why didn't you read what she says?

And so he pulls up some tweets where he reads what she has said, and it's the

complete opposite of what he believed.

So this whole concept of critical thinking, I think is really interesting.

This whole idea of just not accepting something because we've been told it,

or because that's what general, the general public believe, but actually

fact checking things ourselves and thinking through things critically.

To say this is what that means, this is what that means and so on and so

forth and having some kind of opinion.

Claire Glare: But I think that generally goes against, oh I can

hear myself a bit more there, that's a bit weird, a bit echoey.

I think I would put my hand up, lazy, I'm lazy and so actually if I have to go

away and do my own research and check it.

It's actually, it's easier to absorb that common opinion, isn't it?

And it demands something of us.

Yeah.

But I think, but what I love about the Bible and Jesus is that they do

stand up to that critical thinking.

And that when you poke oh, oh, yeah, that's what Jesus said.

And, actually when people might say.

Oh, Jesus was, he, he taught about good morals or whatever.

Oh, actually, but he also talks about this and he talks about this and he talks

about this and he said that about himself.

I was like, oh, yeah, but it's it's fab, isn't it?

I love the fact that God can cope with our questions.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

No, totally right.

And I think it's, again, it comes down to what.

You wrote C.

S.

Lewis on your notes, didn't you?

So C.

S.

Lewis, when he says, no, Jesus is either the son of God,

he's a lunatic or he's a liar.

And he can't be just a good guy.

Because again, this comes down to critical thinking.

So a lot of people have just gone Jesus, yeah, he was

around, he said some cool stuff.

Church is a bit weird.

I don't see why what he said 2, 000 years ago should really impact me today.

But there's no critical thinking done around Jesus, it's just an acceptance,

or the other one that I hear a lot of science has disproved religion.

And so you go has it really?

Let's just prod that a little bit, because if that was true, you'll have

heard me say this before on Crowd, there would be no such thing as a

Christian who is involved in science.

Not a Christian scientist.

Yeah, saw what I did there.

. I saw the mental leap.

There are definitely Christian scientists.

They're not the kind of people that I'm talking, but there would be people who

aren't who you couldn't be a scientist and be a Christian if that was true.

Yeah.

You just, so where I've got an honor degree in

Claire Glare: science.

Who knew?

Have you?

John Harding: Yeah, 2

Matt Edmundson: 2.

Ooh, well done.

In what?

What was the science?

It was

Claire Glare: countryside management, it wasn't a proper science degree.

It wasn't very academically rigorous, in fairness, and they sacked

it off about a few years later.

It was a brilliant degree.

I loved it.

It was basically how to be a park ranger.

. It was fab.

Loved it.

That sounds amazing.

But it had ecology in it.

So that's science.

Yeah, it had biology it so it's a BSc Science.

It was a BSc.

I was shocked that I had

Matt Edmundson: a BSc.

I'm always shocked when I've got, when I say to people, I've got a ba yeah.

Shock, because I'm not an artsy person.

We should probably swap.

Yeah, my, my Bachelor of Arts.

We're more rounded

Claire Glare: as a result of the fact that you've got an Arts degree and I've got

Matt Edmundson: a Science degree.

But yeah, you can't, the critical thinking where Jesus is concerned,

you have to push on this stuff.

So you can't say, and this is where C.

S.

Lewis was right when he said, because of the claims Christ made, you

cannot say he was a moral teacher.

Because if he was just a moral teacher, someone who was moral would

not say the things that he said.

It's a circular argument, isn't it?

And so it becomes self refuting if you follow it through.

So if you're moral, you can't make the claims that he did, because if

he's not the son of God, they were claims of either a lunatic or a liar.

Lunatics and liars don't make good moral people.

Do you know what I mean?

Claire Glare: Or just downright evil,

Matt Edmundson: yeah, being malicious, very deceptive etc.

Yeah, just pushing through a little bit is a really interesting idea.

This idea of critical thinking, this idea of Francis Assisi

not saying certain things.

Matt's put in the comments, fake news is a horrendous part of modern day life.

And the problem you've got, I think, with social media is once you start,

Facebook's listening now, isn't it?

It's goodness knows what's going to come up on my Instagram stream.

But as soon as you start reading something that is slightly geared, say, more

liberal or slightly more conservative, it starts feeding you more and more of that.

And so actually you then start, it takes you down this road and you miss

out all the other stuff from over here.

And I think it's, I think it's super dangerous.

And I think it's so powerful.

In the modern world, this belief that actually what's

on social media is correct.

Wow, it's dangerous.

That's why you need real people.

Real people who knit.

Who will come and listen to you ramble on while you sit and knit while she does it.

The joys.

The joys.

I think we'll end conversations.

I enjoyed that.

That was good.

That was great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good little natter.

Yeah, it was great.

Did we get through all your notes?

Claire Glare: I didn't make many, as you can see, three or four lines.

Yeah, but no, it's great.

And, just that accountability, isn't it?

Yeah.

Of talking.

And you do a midweek one, although Matt has said.

I've got to

Matt Edmundson: remind you about the Zoom.

Claire Glare: The Zoom, no, none this week.

But just that thing of talking to people about actually, what am I talking about?

Thinking about what our conversation is.

Yeah.

And how.

You know how we are influencers, aren't we?

I always remember somebody talking about being a thermometer or a thermostat, in,

in your relationships, am I a thermometer that I just test the temperature or am I

a thermostat that changes the temperature?

That stayed with me.

It's a good little analogy.

I want to be somebody who does talk about Jesus, who does alter, if people

are gossiping that I divert the

Matt Edmundson: conversation in a way.

Yeah, no, totally.

We really need to do a What's The Story episode, because you, you

went to foreign lands to do this.

I did.

You went like proper full on missionary.

Yeah,

Claire Glare: but I wasn't allowed to be.

Allowed to be.

It was

Matt Edmundson: a secret place.

It was a secret place with a secret title, with a secret name.

Shhh.

But, yes, normally now, talking about community, normally during the

week we have midweek Zoom groups.

You'll be more than welcome to join them.

Great to see you in there.

We don't have one this week because it's half term, apparently.

Claire Glare: Yeah, we're going to Cambridge.

Matt Edmundson: Very posh.

Posh.

Very posh.

Very posh.

So we don't have groups this week, but if you'd like to join us next

week, you are more than welcome.

Just reach out to us through the website or through social media, www.

crowd.

church or at Crowd Church and we'll let you know and we'll send

you all the details, which would be great to see you in there.

Hooray!

Acts is done.

We have finally made it through Acts.

So next

Claire Glare: week.

But actually.

Acts isn't done, because Matt and all of us It continues doesn't it?

Because it's not the Acts of the Apostles, it's the Acts of the Holy Spirit.

You're being profound

Matt Edmundson: now, aren't you?

Claire Glare: Just trying.

Yeah.

That's what you pay me for, isn't it?

A bit

John Harding: of profundity.

Matt Edmundson: It is.

You're worth every penny.

Claire Glare: Every hot Ribena.

Matt Edmundson: Every hot Ribena.

Yes, no, you're very true.

Yes, it's just the beginning.

Claire Glare: We've only just begun.

John Harding: That's the

Matt Edmundson: 70s actually.

It is, you've gone back too far now.

I've lost you all.

Should be dancing, yeah.

Acts is done.

Next week we are starting a brand new teaching series called Becoming Whole.

So we're going to talk about what does it mean to be whole

as a person, to be complete.

Those kind of phrases, what does wholeness look like as people?

Is it something that we as Christians can achieve on earth before we get to heaven?

Yes or no?

And if yes, well, we're obviously going to say it's at least some kind

of yes, because we've got months and months teaching me how to do it.

Do you know you're doing a lot of this?

Oh, there's a lot.

There, we're going deep.

There's another song there.

I wanna go deeper.

Is that what you had in your head?

Yeah, that is,

Claire Glare: totally.

We know each other too well.

We've been in the same, what is it, an

Matt Edmundson: echo chamber for too long.

Yeah.

Everyone's watching this going, what is in that Ribena you've been drinking?

Who are they?

So yeah, so we're going to go deep diving into what wholeness means.

We'll take the odd break like Easter, we'll do something different on Easter.

But yeah, we're getting into wholeness.

And so next week I'm going to be explaining all about the series, what's

coming up, the kind of things that's going to get involved with it, the kind

of topics we're going to be talking about.

We are going to go deep.

So I'm really looking forward to this, which leads me actually to remind

me to say to you, if you don't use the YouVersion of the Bible on your

phone, it's an app, it's a free Bible app, YouVersion, download it onto

your phone and connect with Crowd Church on YouVersion on your phone,

because we're going to start putting some of the scriptures and stuff out.

Hopefully through YouVersion, there's going to be some daily

readings and stuff in there as well.

We're not going to have it sorted out for next week but we're slowly

going to be building that into the series so you can follow along during

the week as well with what's going on through the YouVersion Bible app.

Just go on there, search Crowd Church, connect with us on that app.

It'd be great to see you in there.

It's a phenomenal app, by the way.

I don't

Claire Glare: use that app actually.

So yes, I will.

I will.

If I could reach my phone, it's hiding under the desk.

I will download it.

I've got a posh phone now, I can do that.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, now you've got a posh phone, now you can download things.

Smartphones.

21st century.

You don't have to press a number four times when you're saying it in

text, just to get the letter D up.

No, but that's yes, that does sound good, Jenny.

That's it.

It is a great app.

You are right.

So the U version is a free app.

The Bible version is a free app.

Do go on there, register and just connect with us on Crowd.

It'd be great to see you in there.

We are loving that at the moment.

Can highly recommend it.

There's some great stuff on it as well.

And actually, I used, until last week, I used a different app.

And still use it actually, because I know how it works.

I used the Olive Tree app, which was great, but with a YouTube, with

a new version of the Bible app.

There's so many cool things that we can do with it.

Life Church has done some amazing stuff with that app.

It is free.

No hassle.

Do take it.

Do come join us on there.

Anything else from you?

Claire Glare: No, so long,

Matt Edmundson: and thanks for all the feedback, I was going for actually,

Claire Glare: you need to cut,

Matt Edmundson: quit while you're ahead.

Before we get into some major song issues going on.

Hey listen, it has been an absolute treat and a real pleasure

to be with you today at Crowd.

Hopefully you've enjoyed it, hopefully you got some good stuff out of it.

I've enjoyed the conversation, you are an absolute legend.

Enjoyed watching you in it as well.

It's been lovely.

Yeah, it's been great, thanks for stepping into the breach.

Because this is not Ellie, by the way, which was put out on social media.

Ellie had to drop out and you stepped into the bridge, which is great.

So really enjoyed the conversation.

Hope you enjoyed it as well.

It's been great to be with you.

Have a great week, everybody.

Matt says please don't sing.

Just hold it.

That's it from me.

That's it from Claire.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Have a fantastic week.

God bless you.

Bye for now.

Thank you so much for joining us here on Crowd Church.

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God bless you.

Bye for now.