When Your Sibling Gets Everything

Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome to Crowd Church coming to you live

from Liverpool this Sunday night.

My name is Matt Edmundson, and whether this is your first time or whether

you've been part of our journey since the beginning, it's brilliant to be with you.

We are a community of people figuring out what it means to follow Jesus.

In real life, not the polished, perfect version, but you know, the

messy, genuine, brilliant reality of this whole thing called Christianity.

So let me give you a little roadmap of what's gonna be

happening over the next hour.

We'll have a talk last about 20 minutes looking at the topic of relationships,

which is the section of our series becoming whole, that we are looking

at exploring how Christ makes us whole across every domain of life.

After the talk, we've got conversation streets.

Oh yes.

This is where we dig into what you've just heard, and you get

to be part of that discussion.

So if you're with us live, jump into the comments, share your questions,

your thoughts, and your stories.

And of course, if you're watching on Catchup or listening to the podcast, then

thanks for being part of the Crowd too.

Right?

Let's meet your hosts and let's get started.

Dan Orange: Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church.

It's great to be here tonight and tonight.

Well, I'm Dan just in case.

I always forget to introduce myself, and I'm today, I'm with, uh, lovely Sharon.

Sharon Edmundson: Hi everybody.

Great to be with you.

Um, be great if you could, um, comment in the comments to let us know where

you're watching from and say hi.

Dan Orange: Yes, definitely.

Um, we've got a great talk.

Lined up, we've got the lovely Mike Harris with us today, and he's gonna

be talking about sibling relationships, which Yeah, I'm looking forward to,

Sharon Edmundson: yeah.

Yeah.

We just asked him the title of his talk and I think he said Sibling Love

and then scribbled that out because there's not a lot of that in the Bible.

There's so sibling relationships.

It is,

Dan Orange: yeah.

So I'm looking forward to that.

Um, um, me and Mike are, we're both one of five, um, siblings, so we used

to have big families and you are just.

The small.

Yeah.

One

Sharon Edmundson: of one of two.

One of two.

Yeah.

Dan Orange: So I think without further ado, let's pass over to Mike and yeah.

Great.

Mike Harris: Well, thanks.

Um, and yeah, I extend my welcome to you, uh, wherever you

are watching, listening from.

Um, my name's Mike.

And, um, just before I go into the talk, just a little bit about me.

Um, I am from Liverpool.

Lived there all my life, um, apart from a couple of years, and I grew up in a

large family, or it was large to me as I was growing up because I am one of,

uh, five siblings, as Dan was saying.

Uh, like Dan, I am the eldest of five.

Um, one of the interesting things about my family was that for about three months in

1983, so from October, 1983 to December, 1983, there was five of us under the

age of four, so I was three at the time.

My sister Rachel, was two.

My brother Richard was one.

And then we had twins.

And so from October till December, there was five of us under three.

So I very quickly had to learn how to push a triple buggy and learn how

to walk very quickly because there wasn't enough room in the pram for me.

I had to get out and start walking.

And so I grew up, um, in a party essentially, um, with my brothers

and sisters and, and I loved it.

I, I was very fortunate.

Um, to grow up with, with good friends around me.

And yes, there were ups and downs, um, and we're gonna have a little talk about that

today, but that's, that's where I'm from.

Um, I was past.

A article, um, that I just wanted to draw your attention to from the

beginning, and it was a, an article in the newspaper that was published

recently and the headline said this, it said From Cain and Abel to Charles and

Andrew, and it was all about siblings who were in the media who didn't get on.

And their ups and downs and there was lots of different ones and

a few just caught my attention.

So one of them was about Liam and Noel Gallagher.

Um, and there was a, they've obviously had, um.

Uh, uh, you know, a good relationship, but it's had its ups and downs, hasn't it?

And they've had fallings out and then they come back together.

Um, and one of the quotes from Noel was, um, I liked my mom

until she gave birth to Liam.

And I just thought, wow, what, what, what a quote.

Um, and then a little bit further on it.

Talked about these two brothers and this story really, I just

found it really interesting.

So these two brothers, we had Adolf Dazzler and Rudolph Dazzler, and these

were two brothers and they grew up in a small town and they were um, they

were re entrepreneurs and they had the idea of creating footwear for athletes.

That was their idea.

And so they started working on it and the business was only small,

but they fell out to, quite a long story short, they fell out.

And became bitter enemies.

And so they split the business into the business, split it two, it was very sad.

And Rudolph DLA set up his own company, which he called Puma.

He didn't call it Puma originally, but, but it did quite quickly

become the, the, the brand Puma, his brother, uh, Adolf dla.

Um, he had a nickname Addie.

And so we joined Adie and DLA together and created Adidas.

And so you had these two companies, PMA and Adidas in this town.

And the town became known.

It became so divisive and so, um, people were just so at each other's

throats, you were either part of the Adidas team or part of the puberty.

And it became known as the Bent Neck Village because every time somebody would

talk to somebody else, they'd look down.

To see what shoes they were wearing to see whether they were one of

us, or whether they one of them.

And that's how divisive it became.

And e you know, throughout their lives, two brothers never reconciled.

And even when they died, they, they were buried at opposite ends of the

cemetery, almost like, you know, even in depth, they could still

argue if they weren't separated.

And I just thought that, that, it was really, really sad.

Um, and then we come to the Bible and as, um, you know, as I started

to wrestle with this idea of sibling loving the Bible, I started looking

through the Bible page after page.

And you know, if I'm honest, it became quite difficult to find siblings

who, who demonstrated love for each other, and we can find a few.

But it was difficult.

What we could find was siblings that just didn't get along, and when they

didn't get along, it then caused quite big, um, problems for them in the future.

And so, for example, um, we have Cain and Abel, um, and I'm just gonna, you know,

rattle off a few relationships here.

We haven't got time really to go into every single story, but

Cain and Abel, interestingly, Cain the first person ever born.

Abel the first person to die because Cain kills him, the first family on

earth, and that's what they went through.

We also have Joseph and the technical Dream coach, if you remember that story.

And Joseph and his brothers have a very tumultuous, um, relationship.

His brothers, his, his father unfortunately favors Joseph.

His brothers hate Joseph, become jealous of him.

And then look to try and kill him.

Eventually decide to sell him to some slaves.

And later on in the story, and you'll know the story, Joseph finds it within

himself because he recognizes God's, um, the fact that this was all part

of God's plan and bringing, and he's able to reconcile with his brothers.

And, you know, uh, the story is.

Amazing, um, an amazing story of reconciliation.

We've got Jacob and Esau two brothers again, who, because their parents

favored one and favored the other, they became envious of each other.

They became jealous.

Um, and that relationship went sour for decades.

Um.

So there's some, some examples of some relationships that that,

that were probably quite negative.

Um, some relationships that were, that had moments of positive, so Mary and

Martha who were sisters and they had a brother called Lazarus at Lazarus's death.

Mary and Martha are both united in grief for Lazarus, which which does

show that they probably loved each other, that they probably loved Lazarus.

Lazarus probably loved them.

Um, so that, that's one moment.

Um, Ruth and Naomi, they were related through marriage.

They weren't siblings, but the love that Ruth demonstrated to Naomi.

And if you want to go and have a look at these stories, you can, um, the

absolutely amazing stories, but the love that Ruth showed to Naomi was

probably what you would hope to find in a really strong sibling relationship.

Um, even though they weren't siblings, the sacrifice and the determination

of Ruth to remain with Naomi, um, is, is incredible, and you should, you

should read about that and you can.

Um, another relationship was between, uh, king David and Jonathan.

Again, they weren't siblings, but the love that Jonathan

demonstrates to Joseph at one point.

Um, Jonathan puts himself in harm's way in order to protect David

from, um, his own dad from Saul.

And so these instances show us what's, what sibling love can look like.

But the best demonstrations of this are from, from people who,

you know, aren't quite siblings.

You know, one of the things that unites these situations and the dysfunction,

I think, um, is jealousy, and jealousy is, is key to the dysfunctionality and

the breakup of many relationships and many relationships within families.

You know, William Penn said this, he said, the jealous are troublesome to

others, but a torment to themselves.

And Theodore Roosevelt wrote, comparison is the thief of joy.

I think we can probably just naturally understand that, that, that that is true.

You know, we, we often feel jealous, but we never, we never.

Claim we are jealous, but we find it quite easy to spot in other people.

But I think, you know, it's a human condition, isn't it?

That, that at times we get jealous and, and we recognize.

I recognize that when I'm jealous that it does rob me of my joy.

I find it very hard to be peaceful and joyful and happy if I'm

feeling jealous about something.

I also find that jealousy.

Often the person who I'm jealous about, it might impact them a bit, but often really

it's really destructive in my own life.

Um, and then especially in families, you know, it's more difficult to get away

from your brothers and sisters, isn't it?

So when you harbor jealousy towards one of them, it can grow and grow and develop.

And when left, it can break up a family.

And I don't know what family situation you are living in at the moment.

Maybe you've got a fantastic family, fantastic siblings, um,

maybe you've got no siblings.

Maybe you're just in a relationship, um, with friends, colleagues, um, you know,

wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, and maybe the relationship's going great.

Or maybe you are part of a family where there has been division and

fracture and pain and fighting maybe for years, maybe for generations.

Maybe you are part of a family line that that has been broken since.

You can be, since you can remember,

and that's really sad.

But one of the things that.

I wanna say today is that there is always hope of reconciliation.

You know, since the beginning of time, God has been in the business of

bringing relationships back together, he sent Jesus to the cross to die so

that our relationship with God could be reconciled, so that we could be

rescued, redeemed, and brought back into a right relationship with God.

And you know, we learned through the stories of Joseph and his brothers

and through the stories of Jacob and AU, that even after decades of

animosity and hate that with God reconciliation is still possible,

but it takes someone to break the cycle.

And you know, when two countries are at war, one country.

Sends a bomb against the other country.

The country retaliates and bombs the other country and then it escalates

and escalates and escalates.

And you know, when you are in a relationship that, or a family

relationship dynamic where there's constant fighting, it takes somebody to

not retaliate in order to break the cycle.

That can be, that can have been going on for years and years and years.

And that's really, really hard.

How do you do that?

How do you break a cycle of potential pain that has been going on for that long?

How do you do it?

How do you not retaliate?

How do you forgive?

How do you reconcile with the party that have been harming

you hate and you, um, it's hard.

It's hard, and I think that the only way that we can do that, because you see our

culture would say if you don't retaliate, you're not standing up for yourself.

You are not, um, you're not winning, you're losing, you're

being trodden on, you're,

the only way we cannot retaliate is when we know in our heart we've had

a revelation of how much you are loved by the creator of the universe.

You see when you know that you are loved by the King of Kings and the

Lord of Lords, the one who has always existed, the most powerful king creator.

When you are, when you know that you are loved by him, when you know

that you are accepted, secure, and significant, then you don't need.

Your needs to be met before you can meet the needs of somebody else.

You don't need the affirmation.

You don't need to be destroyed by hurt.

You can be a minister of reconciliation, which is what the Bible calls us to be.

But in order to do that, it's hard.

And so what I think we need to do is we need to sta at Jesus.

And as we stare at Jesus, we get an understanding or we get a

gateway into how much he loves us.

And that love fills our hearts and enables us to act in a way that are

very countercultural and helps to build relationships rather than break them.

And so just for a few minutes, I just want to talk about one

story of Jesus from the Bible.

And hopefully as I read this story, you get a grasp of how much.

This King loves you and it's a story founded three of the gospels and it's

a story about a lady who has been bleeding for 12 years and Jesus is on

his way from one town to, um, the home of an important leader called Jairus.

And Jarvis's daughter, who actually is 12 as well, um, is not well, and Jesus

is on his way there to, to heal her.

But on his way there, this lady, um, who has been bleeding for 12 years comes up.

Now, this lady, just for a little bit of backstory, this lady would've been seen as

unclean, which because she was bleeding.

And so that meant that if she was to touch anybody else, that

they also would become unclean.

And if you were unclean, you couldn't go to the temple, you couldn't mix

with other people because otherwise you would make them unclean.

And so this lady had been bleeding for 12 years.

She wasn't able to go to the temple.

She wasn't, wouldn't have been able to talk or communicate much with her family.

She probably wouldn't have had any friends 'cause she wouldn't have

been able to come close to them.

She wouldn't have had the community around her.

And she comes to a Crowd that are around Jesus.

Now, first of all, she's taken a big risk here.

Because when she comes, she knows that she, if she's recognized or be

recognized as somebody who's being incredibly selfish, because if she

touches anyone, she makes them un unclean.

They can't go to the temple,

but she's desperate.

And in her desperation, she thinks to herself, if I can just touch the hem of

Jesus cloak, then I know I'll be healed.

And she gets close enough and she touches her hem, she touches his

hem, and she's healed in an instant.

And Jesus feels power go out of him and he stops and he says, who touched me?

And his disciples are like, Jesus, there's crowds around you.

You know what a DAF question to ask.

Of course somebody's touched you.

We're all barging, we're all making our way to this important guy's house.

You're gonna heal this, this, um, young lady, this 12-year-old

girl, it's gonna be amazing.

There's crowds here and you ask who touched you, but this lady

feels convicted and she comes forward and Jesus looks at her.

And it's the only time in the Bible where Jesus refers to someone as his daughter.

He says, my daughter, your faith has healed you.

You see, Jesus knew already that he had, that this lady was healed, but

he also knew that this lady, because of 12 years of bleeding, was not

part of a community, was not part of a family, did not have any friends.

And so in referring to her as his daughter, he calls her into his family.

He establish her and roots her in his family, in the

family of the King of Kings.

He's already healed her.

He didn't need to do anything else,

but he goes a step further and he establishes her hair.

In his family.

And I just think that that just blows me away every time I think about it.

And you know, that is the heart of Jesus.

That is the heart of God for you today.

You know, wherever you are, whatever you have done, the King of Kings, as you

turned your back on Him, as you walked away from him, sent Jesus to die for you

to restore you back into a relationship with him because he loves you.

You know, jealousy was the thing that in many of the Bible stories

was the, was the wedge that just started to get between people and

started to bring that brokenness.

But you know, in Exus 34, which is one of the first books of the Bible, it says that

the God who we serve is a jealous God.

It actually says his name is jealous because he is jealous for you.

He is jealous not just to heal you, but to embed you in his family.

Why don't you humble yourselves today and call on his name

and he will be there for you.

Dan Orange: Wow.

Thanks, Mike.

Thank you so much.

Wow.

Where do we go from there?

I I love that.

I love that.

Um, Sharon said it a a couple of weeks ago in her talk that God didn't

make us and sort of just zap us all.

And we all came out, you know, we all came out fully grown with no relationship.

He, he embedded relationship into his creation and family into that.

Um.

Sharon, have you got anything that jumps out to you that

you wanted to, to say first?

Sharon Edmundson: Well, it was more that a verse that came to mind, which

was Romans 12 s 18, which says if it's possible, as far as it depends

on you live at peace with everybody.

So I think that just was something that came out.

Um, yeah.

Can talk more about that if you like.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, just in that sense of.

That I think it God's will is for us to live at peace with each other, isn't it?

But so often, all these different relationships that we're in get broken.

Um, and we've talked a lot about forgiveness.

I've talked a lot about forgiveness on Crowd, and that's like a really key thing.

But I think these, this verse is great because it's saying do what

you can, but it acknowledges that even when we've done what we can.

That doesn't mean that the relationship will be restored because it takes

two people for a restoration, but it just makes me think, okay.

What things do I need to take ownership for?

Yeah.

Um, and it's reminded me of I think a situation with my own brother.

Generally.

We've got on really well, but there was a period of time as adults

where our relationship got broken.

And it took me a while to realize, I think, because just we lived apart.

And then after a while I was like, oh, I think I've actually hurt him.

And so it took for me to go and like actually take ownership.

The biggest part of it was my fault.

And just to go, look, I'm really sorry.

I realize I've hurt you.

And that wasn't my intention at all.

And that the relationship, um, was good again.

Um, yeah.

Sorry.

I've just rambled on then.

No, no, that was great.

And I

Dan Orange: like that, you know, in that verse it sort of, it gives us

that, that hope as well, doesn't it?

That he's given us that, that way through.

And I suppose with family, we talk, we talk a lot about

forgiveness at Crowd, um, and.

Um, but with family, you've got that situation where it's not something

you can really walk away from.

You're, you're there aren't you?

Or you know, people do and you have these huge breakups.

Um, but it, it's something that.

It is much better dealt with, um, so that that family can, can be restored.

I think it's a, it can be a generational thing as well that perhaps you are in

a, in a family where, you know, you get on with your brothers and sisters, but

there's something that happened way down the line and it, it is affected cousins

and it, you know, there's so many stories, like we heard about Adida and Puma, um,

and there's the, there's a big thing on.

TV at the moment, the, the House of Guinness, you know that these, these

rivalries and, uh, I just heard last week about it, there's a family in Liverpool

and so far they've spent 4 million pounds on legal fees because of their family

who's just broken down with business.

And it, we need, like, um, Mike said, we need that staring at Jesus, don't we?

I love that.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think like, working for peace is, is.

Such a challenge as well, isn't it?

You know, I know in my own life what it's, um, it's something that we're

called to do, but in order to work for peace, in order to be harmed and yet

still seek peace, it requires a a, a, a heart that is resilient enough to be hurt.

And yet not retaliate.

And the only way, um, that, that is possible is, is, is when you know

that you are loved by the creator.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but it's, it's, it's still so hard.

Is it?

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's still difficult.

Dan Orange: You said, um, and you talk Yeah.

That someone, someone's got to make that first.

Move, haven't they?

Yeah.

Like you said, the person that's hurt still has to make that move.

Um,

Sharon Edmundson: I think one of the things that came out in the different

examples that you gave throughout the Bible of where sibling relationships

broken down there seemed to be.

A theme of envy and jealousy, and that just made me think about how much we

need to guard our own hearts and just like notice, you know, if we have these

negative feelings towards our siblings.

I think the first check is, is it something in my heart?

It might not be, it might actually be their fault, but as far as

we can to take ownership for our stuff and to not let that.

Um, jealousy or rivalry grow, but to actually like, deal with it with God.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Yeah.

And can, can there be perhaps in you, you two might have examples in your family

where you've thought perhaps favoritism has, has been involved and you've

seen, oh, you know, my parents have.

You know, he's the favorite.

Oh, she's the youngest.

She's the, she's the favorite.

And, uh, as a parent I realize that I have to be, I have to be careful.

I love my, both my kids equally, but I've got to to show it as well.

Is, is the, have you got examples where you might, like, in your

family, might, where you thought, you know, I'm, I'm the oldest.

I, I've got this responsibility, the youngest, they seem to get away with it.

Was there any kind of favoritism that you perhaps had to get over?

Mike Harris: Yeah, I mean, maybe I.

Maybe a little bit, although I, you know, I, I have to say, you know what?

I suppose one of the things growing up, my sister Rachel, was always a

lot more mature than me, and so she was allowed to go to town before I

was, even though I was older than her.

But I think I was, you know, at least astute enough to realize that,

that she was more mature than me.

So I could see why that would be.

But it's interesting that you bring up parents, because I did think about that.

You know, I've got two young children.

Um, well, they're, they're not quite too young anymore.

Um, but I was thinking about parents and one of the things I thought as I,

as I looked at this is it'd be quite easy to feel quite condemned as a parent

when you see your kids getting at each other and becoming jealous and envious.

And I just, I think it's important to say that for my reading of the Bible,

and I'm open to other opinions, but.

Jealousy amongst siblings, I think is, is a result of living in a fallen world.

And although parents can, um, make it worse by, by making different

children favorites, I think even if you're a parent and, and you have no

favorites, they can still be jealousy.

And I just think.

That can be, um, you can feel quite condemned as a parent.

And I just think the Bible teaches us that actually jealousy is

just part of the human condition.

We live in a fallen world.

Mm-hmm.

Unfortunately, we're outside of Eden and, and that's just one

of the, the problems I think.

But I do think, you know, I tried to teach my kids when

they were very young to share.

It was one of the first lessons I tried to teach them.

And I'm just, you know, the more and more I think about it, the more I think what an

impossible lesson for me to try and teach my kids that if you give this thing up

and give it to your sister and let her use it, then that is the right thing to do.

You know, it's just, it sharing is just an impossible thing.

And I think when it comes to trying to.

To care for our kids and look after them in a way that is biblical.

I think the best thing to do if you have a child who, who, who demonstrates that they

are jealous is, is to teach them about Jesus, is to read them stories about Jesus

and show them how much Jesus loved them.

Because you know, I've, I've said it a number of times, but

I think that's the only cure.

Yeah.

That is the only cure that as you show them pictures of Jesus.

There's an opportunity for their heart to respond and for Jesus to bring that

revelation of how much he loves them.

Um.

Yeah, yeah,

Dan Orange: absolutely.

Sharon Edmundson: On the whole, um, parent favoritism thing.

My kids are very naughty.

I've got three kids and they all tease me.

They, they, uh, pick on one of the kids and say, oh, he's your favorite.

And I'm just like, no, no, I don't have favorites.

And they're like, oh, yeah.

And I think, I try not to write.

It comes up on a regular basis and I try not to rise to it.

And they are joking, but I think there's that little element of

me going, but are they joking?

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

They're just, yeah.

Very naughty.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

Abs.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I think like when, when there was the five of us, that must

have been, I mean, maybe my mom and dad were just overwhelmed.

Didn't have time to think about it, but, but that, you know, must have been, yeah.

You know, part of it, I dunno.

Dan Orange: Yeah, I think it, yeah, in my family probably.

Probably was.

I think we just sort of thought, oh, my little sister she gets,

you know, she gets it easy.

'cause we're, um, we're now older, we do the washing up,

we have to clean the table.

But she's younger and she gets away with stuff.

Yeah.

Not that I'm.

I remember that even though it was 40 years ago, you've let

Sharon Edmundson: go of that one.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, I've just looking at the comments here, we've got, um, Heather

who said she's got one sister and had been an only child for six years before

she arrived and she hated the intrusion.

I think many, many people can relate to that.

Yeah.

Um, but now 57 years later, I love her the most and she's my favorite person.

I'm glad it turned out well in the end.

Yeah.

Dan Orange: One, um, one question as well is that how, um, how has your sort of

relationship, if you do have siblings, how's that affected you in later life?

Has it been a, has it been a blessing?

Have you able to use those, um, conflicts and stuff that came up?

Um.

Sharon Edmundson: I'm trying to, I can't, I really can't

remember conflicts as a child.

There must have been them, but I can't remember.

I think it's more the incident I talked about before.

I think that's just helped me to, made me think I just really need

to be better with communicating and listening and, and I think as you

get older, there's just something about being more purposeful because

often you are scattered, don't live.

Near each other.

So it, it takes more of an effort, doesn't it, to Yeah.

Maintain that relationship.

What about you?

Mike Harris: Well, I, I'm quite fortunate in that all of my siblings

live within, um, a few miles.

One of my sisters has moved, um, over to over to the world,

but we all live quite close.

Um, and I think be, you know, because we're quite close in

age as well, that was just.

Such a blessing growing up, um, you know, to have friends.

And, um, there were instances, you know, where we would fight.

And I would, I remember my sister Rachel, I would, I would push her on

the couch and I would, I would sit on her head, which, which sounds terrible.

She absolutely hated it.

I thought it was hilarious.

And then my, my two brothers, sometimes I'd get into fights

with them, but, but when you were back then, if you were seven.

And your brother was four.

You were a lot bigger than Yes.

So you could beat him up.

Now, both my brothers are bigger than me, um, and they could probably beat Neil.

Um, but my, my relationship with, with my siblings, again,

I'm, I'm just very blessed.

They are my closest friends.

Um, my biggest supporters.

Yeah.

And yeah, I'm just incredibly blessed because I know other people.

For other people, that's not the same.

Dan Orange: I think, yeah, with my family, we've.

We are still pretty close.

We're all in the same city.

We all in Liverpool.

Um, and we had time where, you know, every Sunday everyone come around

to my house and we just did that.

That was just the thing we did.

But then different things happened in life, marriage, kids, and we

do have, have to be a lot more purposeful now, like you said.

And I have, I've realized that, and we've realized that, that

we can, we can drift apart.

We cannot keep up to date with things, uh, unless we're purposeful.

Um, and that's made.

It's made a big difference and I've, I've enjoyed getting to

know my family a bit more again.

Mm-hmm.

You know, it's something that has to be, had to be conscious.

Yeah.

For me,

Sharon Edmundson: yeah.

Heather's put here, I think sibling conflict can take every

ounce of strength to heal.

It's almost easier to figure a stranger, I think.

Yeah.

I can see how that's true.

'cause I think.

If you've got people who you are close to or who you're meant to be close to,

that can hurt a whole lot more than some stranger doing the same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and there's another one, where did I see that?

Um, oh yeah, Karen's put that, um, that about family relationships.

I don't care anymore if they don't love me.

It's on them to apologize to me.

I'm at peace.

I did nothing wrong.

I think that kind of relates back to the verse I mentioned before, where

once we've done all that we can mm-hmm.

Once you can do nothing else, then you know, if this relationship still

isn't working, then it's like giving it to God and living in God's peace.

Yeah.

And yeah, we can, we can do so much, but we can only do our bit.

We can't do the bit for Yeah.

The rest of the family.

Dan Orange: Yeah, we can't, you can't force someone else

to apologize or do something.

You can, yeah, like you said, you can, you can give that, you can, you can forgive,

you can give it to God and then trust.

Trust him and, um, and pray that in your, in the time we're here, that.

That that restoration happens?

Yeah,

Sharon Edmundson: I think we've said many times before, haven't we, that forgiveness

is not the same as reconciliation.

Because to forgive, you can just do that on your own, regardless

of how the other person acts.

But for reconciliation, there needs to be the other person owning their

stuff as well and dealing with that.

And without that, you can't have that relationship.

Dan Orange: Um, Ellis has put something here.

Um, I'm nine years, nine years younger than my brother and I

used to really wind it up, and even to this day, I still do it.

In some ways, this talk has shown me that I need to stop.

Well done Ellis.

Yeah, well done.

Ellis.

You can

Sharon Edmundson: give us a, um, a progress report in a few weeks time.

See how that's going.

Yeah, see, see, it's gone on.

Yeah.

Um, I've got an interesting point here about the fact that Jesus actually had.

Half siblings as well.

Dan Orange: Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharon Edmundson: And just that, um, it's something I don't really think

about that often, about, you know, how did Jesus get on with his siblings?

And um, actually we've got that in his early ministry.

Um, so he's got, he had brothers and sisters and initially

they didn't really believe.

In him as the the Messiah and at times thought he was a bit crazy.

Um, we're trying to restrain him.

Um, but yeah, over time became followers.

So it is like Jesus understands what it's like to have these

mixed relationships with siblings.

Yeah,

Mike Harris: yeah, absolutely.

And I think like, um, one interesting aspect of our relationship with

Jesus is trying is, is seeing him.

As our brother, um, you know, we, we talk a lot or I, I hear a lot of people

talk about Jesus being our savior, Jesus being our king, Jesus being our Lord.

Um, but Jesus as our brother is, is an interesting aspect to his character.

I know in Romans eight it talks about.

Um, it says in, in, uh, verse 29, it says, for those God for you, he also

predestined to be conformed into the likeness of his son, that he Jesus will

be the first born among many brothers.

And you know, this, this verse is, talk comes after, uh, Romans 8 28, which says

that God is working all things together for the good of those who love him.

And that those who love him, who call Jesus their Lord,

um, that God is changing us.

It uses the word, um, morphing us into the likeness of Jesus so that Jesus

can be the first born among lots of, lots of brothers or lots of siblings.

And I just think you know it.

It's interesting, isn't it?

Um, thinking about Jesus as our brother.

I know.

Um, in the story of the Prodigal son, um, you know, which, which, which I

think very famous story in the Bible.

Um, but at the end of that story, it finishes quite abruptly.

And so you've got, you've got the young son, uh, so you've got the two sons.

The first son decides that he, this is a parable Jesus is telling to the

Pharisees at the time, and the first son.

Um, says, right, I want my inheritance.

Which effectively what he was saying was, I, I, I want to leave,

I want, I want all my inheritance.

So he picks up all this inheritance, he goes off, he wastes it.

He ends up having to eat with the pigs.

And in that moment, he thinks right.

My dad's slaves are better off than me.

I'm gonna go back to my father's house.

So he comes back to his father's house.

His father sees him, runs out, put a, puts a ring on his finger, puts

a cloak around his back, kills the fatten calf, and they had a party.

And this party would've taken about three days.

It wouldn't have been an evening and affair, it would've been

a big extravagant evening.

And, um, few day long party, very expensive party.

And.

The father welcomes him right back into the family, you know,

by putting a robe on and putting a ring on right back into the family.

So the father then goes to see the other brother.

Now the thing in, in, in this story, I'm sorry, I'm going on.

No, but the, the thing in the story is that the, the other brother, everything

now the father owns is his everything because the other brother has taken

his half of the inheritance and gone.

So everything that the father owns right now is his.

And the father comes outta this brother, and this brother is perturbed for want of

a better expression because if the father invites the other son, the son who's was

his inheritance back into the family, then that is going to cost this brother.

All money spent on him from now is coming out of his in inheritance.

And so the father comes out to him and invites him to come into the party, and

it's at that point that the parable ends and the you're left with the question,

well, is the, is the brother gonna come back into the party or is he not?

And the dilemma for the, for the, for the brother who's remain there is,

is, can I come back into the party?

My inheritance is dwindling.

Even this party with the fatten calf is taking up money that

would've been coming to me.

Can, can I do it?

And Jesus finishes.

I think one of the reasons why it ends there is because, and this is

just my own summation, this is only my own guess, but Jesus is the perfect

older brother in that he looked at us

Dan Orange: mm-hmm.

Mike Harris: And gave up everything.

So that we could come back into his family.

And we weren't like the other brother.

We hadn't run home repentance.

We, we were still spending all our money.

We were still wasting all our money.

And, but the elder brother, as it says in in Romans, Romans eight, that that Jesus

is the first born among many brothers.

He's our older brother, but he's the perfect older brother

because he surrendered everything.

So that we could be called back into his family.

And I, you know, the more I look at Jesus' old brother, you know,

I never had an older brother.

I only had younger brothers.

Um, and, but seeing Jesus as our older brother, I think is, there's, there's

something just fantastic about it.

Yeah.

Dan Orange: I love that, Mike.

That's the, it's the ultimate answer to jealousy.

Hmm.

Isn't it?

You know, he, he could be have the, he could have the ultimate jealousy, you

know, you are taking away my inheritance, but he is like, oh, share it with me.

It's just, yeah.

That, that jealousy's gone.

Yeah.

You know, he is given it to us.

We're, we're inheritance.

We can inherit that.

Yeah.

Sharon Edmundson: Yeah.

And I think the Bible talks about God lavishing his love upon

us, and I think that kind of.

Yeah.

That story kind of illustrates that, doesn't it?

The way, yeah.

Just lavish love and grace that is inviting us in all the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

Um, Ellis, sorry, just switching back a little bit.

Um, I feel like we're going to and fro, so Ellis has put another good point as well.

It says a lot of the time with family issues, it affects not just the people

who were in the conflict with each other, but even other people around them.

Yeah.

Reconciling helps us, but can also be good for those around us.

And I think again.

That kind of goes with that parable as well, doesn't it?

That Yeah, that I think that's right.

Mm.

It has a knock on effect.

Our, the, our tricky relationships.

Knock on to those around us as well.

It's not just us.

Yeah, absolutely.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

And I just think, you know, what better testimony to the existence of God and to,

you know, the love of Jesus than when.

Someone who, who has that love, goes out of their way to be

reconciled and to, to seek peace.

As you were talking about initially, Sharon, I just think it's, it's so

counter-cultural because, because you, you've got to lay down, you've got

to give up your, you know, you are.

Rights to, to have all your needs met first.

Yeah.

Dan Orange: Give up your pride, isn't it?

Sometimes as well, it's like, give your pride.

Yeah.

I don't have to do this one.

You don't, but this is gonna be, yeah.

This is gonna heal.

Mike Harris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

And it's, it's a testimony to, to, to your other brothers and sisters, you know, who,

who maybe don't know Jesus, but also to, to people, friends and family looking on.

Um, I think we probably underestimate how big a.

Impact that has.

Yeah,

Sharon Edmundson: I was just thinking then that there might be people watching

who actually don't have siblings or maybe don't really have much of a

family at all, and I, I think it, again, that's one of the amazing things

about the Christian faith is that it talks about God being our father or

Jesus, our brother, and inviting us.

Into that family relationship and it talks about how God sets the lonely in families.

And that's both a fabulous thing.

Uh, also a challenge because we are, I think people, it's like the world's

fabulous because of people, but also.

That's what makes it tricky, isn't it?

Yes.

Those relationships, they, they both give us things that we need.

We need relationships, but also they bring us challenges at the same time.

But yeah, if you are out there and you are, you are on, on

your own, don't be on your own.

You are invited in.

Come on in.

Yeah.

Dan Orange: That's a very good plug for, um, at the end of this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, at the end of Conversation Street.

Um.

The, the address will come up in a minute, um, on the bottom of the screen or in

the comments that, um, we have a Google meet, so we'd love to just, just chat.

It's like an informal time to, to get to know you, to be

part of the, the Crowd family.

Is there anything else, Mike, that you'd like to say before we finish up?

Mike Harris: Um, no, I'm not forcing you.

I'm just not that I can think of.

Sharon Edmundson: I, I think for me it's just, I think just taking that

stop check in a sense that if you have got siblings just to think, okay, how,

what is my relationship like with them?

Have I done all that I can do to live in peace?

Or is there something that actually I need to take ownership of?

And if you've done all you that you can.

I mean, just to, and things are still tricky.

Maybe just to like pray a blessing over your siblings and you know, to extend

God's grace into their lives somehow.

And like I said before, if you haven't got siblings, just to know that, um.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

We're all invited into this family, to God's family.

Mm-hmm.

To not be alone.

Mike Harris: Yeah.

I I wouldn't mind just, just plugging a book.

Yeah.

Um, that I think is quite good.

There's a book by, uh, Neil t Anderson, um, which is called Victory Over Darkness.

Um, it's all about your identity in Christ and how.

Um, he focuses around certain basis that talk about the fact that you

are accepted, that you are secure, and that you are significant.

And I found it really, really powerful and it'll, it'll help you to be,

um, the Minister of Reconciliation, which the Bible calls us to be.

Um, want you have a, a full understanding based on revelation from God, um,

about your true identity in Christ.

That's a great book.

Dan Orange: Yeah, it is.

I only read it this year actually.

It's a brilliant book.

Yeah.

It's one of those books that in the Christian Circle it's

like, oh, you haven't read that?

Yes.

Yeah.

Um, thanks so much for joining us.

Thank you Sharon.

And, and thank you Mike for the No problem.

Brilliant talk.

Um, we'll be back next week.

And Dave Conney speaking, I believe on grandparents.

So yeah, looking forward to that.

Um.

Again, if you'd like to join us just in about five minutes, two

minutes or so, come join on Google meets and we'll see you next week.