Facing the Unfaceable

Well, good evening and welcome to Crowd Church.

My name's Matt Edmundson and it's great to be with you this evening.

Uh, to my right is the beautiful Dan.

How are we doing?

Doing good.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Apart from that, apart,

apart from your headphones,

I think my left ear is bigger than my right ear, so we're gonna have issues.

Oh, I'm just turn that computer so you can have

ear issues.

Yeah, ear issues.

Apart.

Apart, apart from that, I'm doing really well.

Good.

Well, glad to, I'm glad to have, I'm glad you're here, Dan.

Uh, on my Where's aid?

He's not on my right.

Almost.

No, he's sort of down south somewhere.

He's, yeah, he is.

Good evening.

What can I, what can I hear?

That's really mental.

I'm

literally in your head.

Ah, there it is.

Ah,

good.

There he is.

Look at that.

How are we doing a

I'm doing pretty good.

Both my ears work, as you can see.

The, um,

it's the stand that's got issues.

I

know.

I, yeah, it very tiny ears.

They're meant to grow as you get older.

They just haven't grown enough yet for the ease.

Yeah, I've got those.

I've got those fancy in-ear monitors, which Ade told me to get actually, he

said get this model and they stay in.

Ah, funny.

We

should get you some of them.

Uh, we should definitely get you some of them anyway.

We're not here to talk about ears.

All this interesting is.

That is, uh, welcome to Crowd Church.

If this is your first time with us, a very, very warm welcome to you.

Uh, the way Crowd works, we're just a, we're an online church.

We just stream over the web.

You tonight, you've got me, Dan, and a a's gonna do the talk.

Dan and I are hosting and we are going to, um, be chatting with a,

about his talk as well to my left, not that you can see it as my beautiful

wife, Sharon is in the comments.

Um, and so she'll be.

Answering your questions in the comments.

So any questions, throw them in, uh, 'cause we're gonna love to get to

them in Conversation Street, which is the bit after the talk where we go

through your questions and comments.

So, uh, lady Birkby is in the house.

Uh, hi Sonia, I'm just going through the comments.

Rose is there.

Alicia's there.

Alice.

Good evening.

Uh, very warm.

Welcome to you all.

Uh, it's great that you are here.

So.

We are, we've kind of finished.

Yeah.

It's sort of a,

it's kind of come to an end.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The, the whole becoming whole series has sort of, has sort of ended.

It is a bit of a big deal 'cause it's like 14 years.

It's felt like we, we've been in that, that whole mini series there.

Um, and this week and next week is Easter.

Yes.

I'm saying that that is right, isn't it?

Ade.

Yes, it's,

I like the dramatic pause.

Yeah.

Um, so, uh, Ade's gonna be

you just sending the right notes.

Yeah.

Uh, so this week and next week is all about Easter and then in a couple

of weeks we're starting a brand new series called Jesus the Revolutionary,

which I'm super psyched about.

Um, so we're gonna be getting into that, but yeah, it's kind of a

little, a little break from the norm.

You still having trouble with your

wrist?

Oh, yes.

Constantly.

But hey, I can hear

that's the main thing.

Uh, that is the main thing.

Anyway, without further ado, uh, Ade.

Are you ready for this?

Yep.

Ready when you are.

Awesome.

So this ladies and gentlemen is a delivering his talk live via

live streaming to a live stream.

It's very meta, uh, when he's live streaming into a meta.

Uh, so grab your notebooks, grab your pen, let me hand over to Ade and Dan

and I will be back, uh, after a's talk.

But for now, the wonderful, the amazing Mr. Ade.

Here we go.

Ade over to you, bro.

Thank you very much.

Um, good evening to you all.

This evening we're gonna be talking about facing the un.

If you go back a few years, we were, um, quite familiar with the term.

It's okay not to be.

Okay.

This is something we really recognized during COVID when we,

uh, as a nation, we just got more on it when it came to mental health.

Now since then, we've, we've somewhat lost this as our culture has drifted

more toward say, curated authenticity.

You know, it's okay to show things are a little bit bad, but, but

not too much, and make sure the lighting's right while you're doing it.

Um, and as we talk about very often on this, this, this,

um, meeting toxic positivity.

So we're gonna take a moment to look at when things go really wrong.

So when was the last time you faced something terrifying and

felt completely alone, even when you were among loved ones?

In fact, when was the last time you showed vulnerability outside your close circle?

When was the last time you cried in front of someone other than close family?

For me, that doesn't happen often.

In fact, the last time I literally nearly lost a friend at sea.

So this goes back a couple of years.

It was a lovely August summer.

Um, I'm fortunate enough to live in this wonderful Victorian seaside

town on the edge of the coast of North Wales, and I had a friend over.

He was, uh, an experienced kayaker.

He'd done a bit of paddle boarding and we went out on the sea at the

front where we've been before.

And living here.

I've been here many times and it was a very normal, just kind of paddle

around the bay kind kind of thing.

Only, it wasn't after maybe five or 10 minutes, all of a sudden wind

started hollering over the mountains and we're looking back at the shore

and we're seeing waves roll out to us.

You know, normally you expect waves to be rolling into the shore, not to

rolling out, and this was a drop to your knees and paddle for your life scenario.

And we did,

unfortunately.

The tide was strong, the wind was strong.

Sorry, not the tide, the wind.

We were being pushed out.

It took me 25 to 30 minutes to paddle what it would normally take me maybe

half a minute to a minute, and every few minutes I'm looking over my

shoulder and I'm seeing my friend get smaller and smaller in the distance and

knowing that I could go back to him.

But then we're, we're both not getting out.

I have to get out and raise the alarm.

So I did, I took about half an hour to paddle in and literally

crawled onto the shore, exhausted.

A couple of people saw me, helped me on, helped me get the Coast

Guards there, and within half an hour the Coast Guards arrived.

And, uh, you, you just see these guys in Coast Guard trucks with binoculars and on

the radio, and they were radioing with.

A Coast Guard boat, but lots of other local boats and they couldn't find them.

And uh, you know, another half hour passed by and one of the local boats said, it's

getting too dangerous out here for us.

We have to turn around.

So you can imagine what I'm going through in my mind as I've seen

my friend get smaller and smaller and smaller into the distance.

And then maybe a minute after that little boat said it was turning around and then

radioed into say they had found him.

Um, and he was then taken to the, the nearest, um, port.

Oh, I hopped into my car.

I drove maybe 45, 50 minutes to actually get to where he was and found him sitting

in an ambulance in pretty good shape.

Pretty shaken up, but you know, he was safe.

And, uh, by the time I took him home, he just walked in the house.

I saw my wife and I just with my friend there, and I just broke down in tears.

It was just too much.

Having lived with the guilt that my friend could die, and this was my idea.

He was borrowing one of my boards.

It was just too much.

I didn't care who was there.

I just broke down.

Only look for an example of this in, in the Bible.

You know, I think the best one really has to be Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.

He takes three of his closest disciples, Peter, James, and John, to pray.

He, he leaves them while he goes a little further into the garden and he just

pours out his heart to God in solitude.

Now, a couple of things about the, about Gethsemane is, first of all.

Before I looked into this, this talk, I always imagined Gethsemane as kind of

like, you know, think of a nice public park, you know, kind of green grass

and trees and just nice and pretty.

This was actually more of an.

Agricultural industrial site.

This was where olives were grown and, and oil was crushed for the temple.

In fact, there's almost a certain poetry to this when we consider this is where

oil was crushed for the temple, and Jesus is about to be crushed for humanity.

The other interesting thing about Gethsemane is right next to it,

the land drops off into the Jordan Valley wilderness, which was a

traditional refuge for fugitives.

He could have easily just slipped away there and no one would ever

have found him, but he didn't.

Now we are fortunate to have four different accounts of this

from the four different gospels.

Well, I say four, but three really.

Uh, John doesn't detail the prayers or the agony, he just details

that they went there and prayed.

So we have, uh, the gospel of Matthew, who is a Jew.

Former tax collector and disciple, and this is written for a Jewish

audience and he tends to focus on fulfillment of testament prophecies.

We've got Mark, who was a companion of disciples, Peter, and this

was written for a Roman audience.

It's very action orientated, focuses on miracles.

It's the earliest of the four gospels.

It's the shortest and it's considered.

This was specifically short so it could be learned by heart.

We've got Luke, who is the companion of the Apostle Paul.

Very much written for a more of a gentile audience.

When we talk about Gentiles, we mean not Jews.

And we talk about that in the biblical sense.

And this really emphasizes Jews' humanity and compassion.

Uh, but also Luke was a physician.

And as we'll see shortly, he brings some details from a physician's perspective

that the other ones would not have seen.

And then finally you have the Gospel of John, who was a disciple.

He was one of.

Jesus' closest, often considered to be in the inner circle.

Um, and he, his gospel was very much an eyewitness account.

Um, now Jesus disciples, I seen him, a story fell asleep.

John was one of the ones there.

So we, you know, can assume, this is why we don't have as much detail in this one.

So the first thing we can learn about Jesus is he was realistic

and honest about a situation.

He was in.

And Mark 1434 says, my soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death.

That's heavy.

Jesus is showing.

He is deeply distraught.

He's not glossing it.

He's not sugarcoating.

He's not underestimating the situation.

He is at his wits end.

This is.

An unimaginable horror and he's portraying that and being very straight about it.

Luke, we mentioned he was a physician and in Luke 22, 44 says his sweat was

like drops of blood fall to the ground.

Now there is a condition called uh, hematohidrosis, which I'm possibly

pronouncing incorrectly, which refers to sweating blood under extreme stress.

We always think of Jesus as the son of God and divine.

But while he was on this earth, he suffered like a human.

He felt like a human.

The next thing he does is he cries out to God.

And interestingly, um, he, he, he, he leaves his disciples while he goes

and pray, pours his heart out to God.

Which links him with Matthew six, six.

When you pray, go into your room and close the door and pray

to your father who is unseen.

He really kept this between him and God.

There's no spectacles here.

Yes, he's gone with his closest friends and left them praying while he went a

bit further, but he made this between him and his father in Matthew 26 39.

He fell face to the ground.

Now rabbis taught different Prayer postures standing with

kneeling, and there's frustrating, which is flat on the ground.

Jesus was in the deepest posture of supplication,

and Hebrews five, seven says He offered up prayers and petitions

with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death.

He wasn't quiet and reserved about this.

He was praying for deliverance from death and suffering,

but ultimately we know he died on the cross.

Ultimately, he embraces the situation in Matthew 26 45 to 46.

He says, look, the hour has come and the son of man is delivered

into the hands of sinners.

Rise, let us go.

He accepts God's will and he doesn't resist despite the cost.

In fact, rise, let us go.

That's the call to action.

That's let's go and do this.

There's none of us.

Oh, we'll do that later on.

It's, no, now is the time.

Let's go and again.

As I mentioned before, beyond Gaem, it drops off to the Jordan Valley wilderness.

He could have slipped away in M Night.

He did not.

He embraced what laid ahead of him despite knowing the horrors that faced him.

So how does this help us?

Well, I think we can be realistic and honest about a situation.

We can cry out to God and in his strength we can go on to embrace the situation.

Now God is not a shelter from life's hardships.

And if bad things are happening, it's not a sign of God doesn't like

me or my faith isn't strong enough.

Things just happen in James one, two to four has considerate pure joy.

My brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds.

You know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance, let

perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not

lacking anything, so bad things can happen, but they can build your faith.

Matthew 1624.

Then Jesus told his disciples if anyone would come after me, let him deny

himself, take up his cross and follow me.

Now that is, that's a hard metaphor.

So historians estimate the weight of the cross.

Typical cross that we would've imagined, geez, would've used is

about 300 pounds or 136 kilos would've been about eight to 15 foot tall.

The cross beam section that he would've had to carry would've

been about 70 to 125 pounds.

So we're talking what, maybe 55.

Plus kilos, and this would've been carried for half a mile

after he was beaten, exhausted.

You name it.

This is not something easy.

And you might think, ah, 55 kilos.

Yeah, I can lift that in the gym.

This was not a nice ergonomic shaped barbell.

This was a. Odd object if anyone's tried odd object training.

You know, 55 kilos can be incredibly heavy when it's a weird shape.

This was not only a weird shape, it would've stuck into his flesh.

It's not an easy thing to carry, and Jesus makes it very clear.

If we are going to follow him, we are going to face hardships.

Now one of the, uh, I think misquoted verses, or most frequent misquoted verses

that I've come across is first Corinthians 10 to 13, and it generally gets misquoted

along the lines of, God will never put you through more than you can handle.

Now if we actually read one Corinthians 10 13, it says, and God is faithful.

He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear, but when you

are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

This talks about temptation only and not hardships.

Now, I think some of this common misunderstanding actually comes

from a paraphrased version, so I've just read from the new

international version, which is a.

Reasonably accurate translation of the original Greek and Hebrew paraphrase.

Bibles tend to add a little bit.

They make it a bit easier to read.

They make it a bit easier to imagine the context, but.

If you take them literally, they can be misreading, mis misleading in the message.

The same verse says, all you need to remember is that

God will never let you down.

He'll never let you be pushed past your limit.

He'll always be there to help you come through it.

And when you think, but some people die in his name, you know how far

is being pushed past your limit.

Revelation six, nine says, I saw under the altar.

Those who had been slain because of the word of God and the

testimony they had maintained.

People die for maintaining God's testimony.

You know, we are lucky in the UK that we can speak freely about him

and not face penalty for there are other countries where it is literally

a death sentence if you are caught.

God is definitely not a shelter from life's hardships.

However, God will be with us in life's hardships.

Isaiah sixty five twenty four.

Before they call I will answer while they are still speaking.

I will hear God knows the situation.

Before we do, we just need to call out to him in Hebrews four 16.

Let's us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that

we may receive mercy and find the grace to help us in our time of need.

Now, notice the promise here is grace and mercy.

Promise here is not deliverance.

God promises to listen to us, to be with us, to walk with us through that hardship.

But not necessarily deliver us from it.

And there are plenty of hardships where we just have to embrace

a situation in his name because there is no other way around it.

And I'm coming back to James one, two, to four.

Consider it pure joy.

My brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds

because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.

Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and

complete, not lacking anything.

Sometimes the things that we most desperately seek delivery from.

Become the means of God's greatest work in our lives.

And without those horrendous situations, he would not be able to step in and

perform the marvels that he does.

God uses life's hardships to help us grow in him.

And finally, Deuteronomy 31, 8.

The Lord himself goes before you and he will be with you.

He will never leave you nor forsake you.

Do not be afraid.

Do not be discouraged.

Whatever the situation is, we are not alone.

We can step into that seemingly unfaithful situation knowing that he's with us.

Also not alone.

And we, you know, just in the same way that Jesus took his three closest

disciples, even closest friends in his darkest hour, we can lean on each other.

We can lean on our brothers and our sisters, in our Christian communities,

and our churches around us facing the un face, just not have to be done alone.

Galatians six, two, carry each of its burdens, and in this way,

you'll fulfill the law of Christ.

And that law of Christ is to love one another.

John 1324.

A new command I give you love one another as I have loved you,

so you must love one another.

We are called to be part of a community,

so if you are not in a community.

It is something great that you are missing from your lives.

It's also something as a believer we are called to be

that is missing from your life.

Crowd is a community.

If you are in a situation where there is no local church,

please reach out to Crowd.

Even jump on to the live lounge at the end of a session.

We would love to meet you.

Hebrews 10 24 to 25, and let us consider how we may spur one another on toward

love and good deeds not giving up.

Meeting together.

A Sam are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another and all the

more as you see the day approaching.

Do you have community?

We are not alone.

We are gonna have to go through some horrendous times.

God is not going to prevent them, but he's going to be with us in closing.

John 1633.

In this world you will have trouble, but take heart.

I have overcome the world.

Thank you.

Well, what a great talk.

What a, are you right there?

Sorry.

Oh, okay.

Sorry, I just been, been slightly distracted.

Uh, what a great talk.

Uh, and thanks for trying to sort out, we had a few power

issues, uh, is what happened.

Um, but hopefully we've got 'em sorted here.

Um, love it, love thinking about this coming upstate.

It's that time of year, isn't it, where you think, um, uh, where it is that

whole week leading up to Easter, which makes you think about these things.

And you, I you always sort of start off in the garden of Gethsemane, don't you?

Yeah.

And you're just like, it, it just reveals something about Christ

that is, that is just mesmerizing.

Something sort of, I think it's one of the biggest things that

sort of reveals his humanity.

Yeah.

That he, he, he struggled.

It was pain of it came up.

Um, I heard the que this question this week.

Why did God have to Jesus have to die on the cross?

Why such a painful death?

Yeah.

And when Ade was talking, then I just thought if it was, I think

if it was anything else, if it was, you know, you know, a death

sentence where it was very quick.

It perhaps could have been that, well he, you know, he guess he gave his life.

Yeah, but he didn't really, what did he lose?

He knew he was gonna rise again.

It, this was, he not only gave his life, but he, he, he went

through that, that pain for us.

He could have.

He could have pulled out.

Mm.

Do you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

That he could have said, no, this is too, is this, is this worth it?

What I'm gonna have to go through?

Yeah.

But he still went through it.

Yeah.

And I think I got a little bit of GA glimpse there of why

Yeah.

What he went through that

Yeah.

For us, not, not just the death, the manner of, of that.

Yeah.

Uh, fascinating.

Um, so Ellis has put in the comments here, uh, I draw so much comfort

from the idea that the Lord himself.

Yeah,

was so full of sorrow that he craved relief.

Mm.

Which is an interesting point, isn't it?

Ada, you got any thoughts on that?

Yeah, there are a couple of, um, instances in scripture where

we really see the human side.

You know, this is one.

The other is.

Infamously the shortest verse in the, the Bible, Jesus wept after

the death of his friend Lazarus.

Mm-hmm.

So there are a couple of times where we do see that humanity,

um,

come through.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's an interest.

And I, not to correct you a 'cause far be from me to do that.

Uh, Jesus wept is the shortest verse verse in the English Bible.

Yes.

In the Greek or Hebrew Bible.

It's not, uh, I learned that the other day.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

I can't remember which one is, um, but it was something that I learned

the other day, uh, and I thought, well, that's a bit of pub trivia.

Yeah.

What

pub do you go to?

Yeah, that's on the pub quiz.

Um, yeah, that's fair play.

That's a good question.

Um, so lemme just go through the comments here.

Uh, I think Christ gives us a model for perseverance in each of the gospels.

And I think your point, the Bible challenges to stretch how

we think about perseverance as it isn't the same as escape.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then we often talk about that in Crowd, don't we?

That

mm-hmm.

It, it's not come to come to Christ, come to God, all your problems will go away.

It's come to Christ, he's gonna be with you.

Yeah.

Through your, through your problems.

Yeah.

That, that, that, that grace and that mercy that they spoke about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was, um.

I was planning my talk for, uh, in a couple of weeks actually with the

start of the Jesus Revolutionary Series and what I was sort of thinking that

through, you know, the Jesus that we see versus the, the Jesus that we actually

get in the gospels and now they're two different things, you know, or the Jesus

we expect is maybe the better expression.

Um.

And one of the things that, uh, I thought about this morning actually,

um, sorry, lemme just tighten up my little, uh, there we go.

One of the things I thought about this morning was how

Jesus was coming into Jerusalem.

On the donkey, the triumphal entry, uh, as we start to think about it this time

of year, and the, the crowds are all sort of laying palms at his feet, right?

They're laying their cloaks down, they're laying their palms, and by

doing that, they're making this sort of bold assertion that you are our king.

So the laying down of palms was this sort of sign.

Yeah.

Um, that you are the king.

And it's a bit unusual 'cause he's come on a donkey rather than a chariot.

But you know, we let that slide.

And so they're laying these palms down and they're putting the cloaks down

and they've made this sort of public confession that Jesus is the king.

This is, you know, what we're, what we've received, what we've declared.

Jesus is my king.

And actually some of them would even say.

Uh, they sacrificially gave Right.

So they'd lay their cloaks down.

Yeah.

And they're not getting it.

Yeah.

Not getting it back.

Not necessarily getting it back.

And if they get it back, I all kind of status it in when they get it,

but it's not like, you know, um, there's a wardrobe full of them.

And so the, there's this thing where I've made this decision to believe that you

are the king, and I've made this decision to give, to serve, to publicly declare

who you are, yet several days later.

The same people that were doing that were the same people that

were spitting in his face.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

And they were hurling insults.

And you look at the number of people around the cross and they weren't there.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

So what intrigues me is, is, well, why did that happen?

And the, the best explanation that I can think of, uh, is that when.

They made this declaration of faith that Jesus, you are my king.

When they gave to his ministry, they had an expectation of what that meant.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Like, um, you will now come and take charge.

Mm-hmm.

You will, you will be that man.

Uh, and you're gonna destroy Rome 'cause you are the Messiah.

And so.

And they had all these promises from scripture.

Yeah.

Right.

So they had these expectations of God based on scripture.

And I'm thinking of that going, that is so many Christians

today that we do the same thing.

We've declared Jesus to be king.

We have given, we have these expectations or these ideas.

Yeah.

Based on promises from scripture.

Right.

When that doesn't happen the way that we think it should happen, we either

press in or we mock God and start spirit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's, it's really, and it all comes down to why Jesus.

Well, not always, but quite often it all comes down to Jesus has

not fulfilled your expectation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Whether that's based on your understanding of scripture or what

you just think a good God would do.

But the thing that we learn about Easter is something better is coming.

Yes.

Right?

Yeah.

And there's a different plan and that God is not so concerned without.

Comfort as he is with our transformation and our freedom.

Um, and actually those two things are quite often in juxtaposition

or, or can add or sometimes people go to, I've lost my faith.

Mm.

I've heard that recently.

And they haven't, I don't think, they never, never necessarily lost their faith.

They've lost what they thought Jesus was gonna do for them.

Mm-hmm.

They thought, it's not working out the way that I have planned.

I've lost my faith.

Yeah.

And it.

That's not it.

Um, you've nicked a bit of my talk for next week there.

Am I,

sorry.

I'll, I'll stop talking now.

Yeah.

Just that expectation of what we think.

Yeah.

God's.

Yeah.

God's got me and he's gonna do this, this, and this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that doesn't happen.

Yeah.

Ah,

so therefore, God's not got me.

Yes.

And therefore God is not good.

Or is not real.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so therefore I'm backing out.

Yeah.

And I will mock him or spirit him and I I think, or you go home confused.

Maybe you weren't in the, you know, maybe you're not one of the people

that actually mocks him, but that, that they, they weren't there at the cross.

Is the point, right?

Yeah.

And you, they've gone home confused or disillusioned or something.

And I think it's, it all comes down to expectations of God, uh, and what we

think Christ should do in that scenario.

A i Have you had any experience with that?

I.

Yeah.

And I think to a point, you can look at every new believer

that come along to church.

They, um, they pray the sinners Prayer, Prayer, salvation,

whatever you want to call it.

Um, and, and, and now they know that's it.

I'm gonna heaven, I'm a Christian.

It's one thing accepting Jesus as your savior and wrapping your head around

that, but then actually accepting him as your Lord and thinking, okay, I haven't

just joined this happy bunch of people and God's gonna make everything great.

In fact, I've actually now painted this ginormous target on my back

for Satan to come after me because until this point, I was already

going to hell and he didn't care.

Now I'm a walking target.

I think it's down to that, like you say.

Expectations.

Mm. What is we?

We come into this as humans.

We come into this as broken sinners, and we have the same expectations of

broken sinners, and it takes years of studying the Bible teaching to

begin to get your mind to approach.

Where it needs to be to really have your expectations in the right order.

You know, it's not something you can be told.

It's something you have to learn over time.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

We all come at this with human expectations of a divine deity,

and we get our expectations dashed, or we learned there's more to this

than we initially thought.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, uh, uh, Alicia has put in the comments, I think Christ gives us a

model for, um, oh no, not, I want she put that in the comments, but sorry.

A little bit later.

Put a commentary I was reading yesterday posted that desperation

teaches us to trust God.

And in that way, uh, the lesson of those desperate times can be

considered a form of God's mercy.

And that, that really sort of took me to, in, in Romans it says, um,

tribulation produces perseverance.

Perseverance.

Character.

Character hope, and hope does not disappoint.

Yeah.

' cause the love of God has been pulled out into our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

It was given to us.

So Yeah, absolutely.

That without those ti times, we're not gonna learn.

Those, those things are, we we're not gonna be.

Get to experience.

Yeah.

God's mercy.

That's so true.

I, I heard this expression once, you can't have a testimony without a test.

Yeah.

Oh

yeah.

I like that.

There's the, the very definition of the worst.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think you, the thing you have to give up, uh, in many ways

in your Christian walk is.

The expectation that God will perform exactly as you think he will perform

when you think he will do that.

Now that don't get me wrong, there's this really interesting sort of, sort

of juxtaposition again here with this.

Where you, there is the walk by faith.

Right there is the, I have a promise from God.

I'm holding onto that promise and I will believe that what he said he will do.

And I think that's just, and I think that's right and I think

that's good and I think that's holy.

But at the same time, um, my experiences.

In that walk of faith, there is also times that I don't fully have the

revealed knowledge that I I need, right?

So I'm, I am making assumptions.

So I think if God has spoken you to you specifically about

something great, you, you go for it.

You believe it.

Um, but at the same time, we have to let go of the expectation.

Um, or I suppose is the expectation is the right word.

The belief that God will act exactly as I think he will in the way that I think

he will when I think he will do it.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, and I think that's the thing you, you have to give up, um, in many ways without

losing hope and without losing faith.

Yeah.

And so, I mean the, you know, at, at some point the obvious statement to make

is, uh, when you die and get to heaven.

Uh, you will be totally healed.

You will be totally free.

Um, you'll be very wealthy and not, well, you're not gonna need any money.

It's not like you need, Do you know what I mean?

It's, but all of those things which bother us here on earth

will be nothing in heaven.

So we do ultimately get there.

Yeah.

The question is what happens between now and then?

Yeah.

Right.

Um, and that's that.

Character producing, perseverance and all that sort of stuff, isn't it?

Yeah.

Because if you, I mean, just imagine if you just got everything you

wanted, whenever you wanted it.

What kind of a

Yeah.

Spoiled, spoiled rat would we be?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's

so true, isn't it?

Mm-hmm.

Um, Elli said, I found it difficult to hold onto God's promises during

the difficult times when things are going wrong for prolonged periods.

I do notice my hope waning in certain areas.

Um.

I remind myself, not my will, but your will be done.

That's a really interesting thing.

How do you, I guess, how do you hold onto that hope when, um, and maybe

you've got some thoughts on this.

How do, how do you hold onto that when things aren't happening quickly?

When you have this promise from God, um, it is difficult.

Things are going wrong, things might even be going worse.

How do you guys hold on to hope?

Um,

it's all about what you fill your head with and your mind with.

So if you're focusing on all the things that are going wrong

and wo with me, that's, that's not gonna do you any failures.

It's the case of we take each day at a time and we, we fill our minds with

things which are positive, wholly good.

And, uh, there is, there is no easy answer.

Um, I mean, as you know, as you guys know, um, Sonia has severe me.

I am her essentially full-time carer as well as a full-time worker.

My health is not good as a result of it.

And there are days, and this week's been one of them where I think,

how on earth am I gonna do this for the next 20 years before I retire?

But I just kind of focus on what's next.

Hmm.

I study the word.

Um, I am.

Being active within the Christian community that I'm in.

And, uh, just take each day at a time knowing that, you know,

sometimes you just gotta let go and let God you do what you can.

You know, God's given us heads, so we, we, we are the best stewards that

we can be with the resources we have.

But then after that, we just let go and we, uh, keep it positive.

We keep him fully in the, uh, picture.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think it's such a good point.

Such a good point.

What do you, what what about you, Dan?

Yeah, I think, um, I've, uh, not last week, the week before I've

been really struggling with this.

My, my mood can get really down when things are, when things are tough,

and my work's been very quiet.

I need some, get some business in and, um, I've had to, it is been a.

It's almost like a physical battle.

It's almost like I have to put one foot in front front of the other

and that, that sounds dramatic, but it it's like that I really have to.

I just have to constantly pray.

Mm.

Really, really battle.

Just say, God, you know, I've, you, you, I know you've got me.

Mm. Um, what, what?

I know that I need to do stuff.

But in some of those times, you, it's hard to, yeah.

It's hard to do.

You just got to trust him.

And I just have to keep praying and, um, and I, I know from the

past that he's got me through it.

Um.

And he will again.

Yeah.

Um, gotta fix my eyes on him.

Yeah.

That's such a good thing, isn't it?

Fixing your eyes on him.

Look unto him the Yeah.

Perfecter or the author and finisher of your faith.

The faith.

Yeah.

That phrase, the author and finisher.

Um, or the perfecter.

I should check this out.

I mean, don't hold this as theology, but, um, I, I remember hearing

once that, uh, that phrase is a bit like a French polisher.

Who just, who just brings that, that beauty out of the wood and

that, Do you know what I mean?

And he's the author and perfect.

He's like the French polisher

Yeah.

Of our faith, which I, I think is such a lovely imagery.

Um, so you said here in the comments, uh, one step at a time and know with

complete confidence that God is with us.

And I think you're right.

You've just gotta fix your eyes on Jesus, like Ade said, one step at a time.

Why worry about tomorrow?

Today's got enough trouble of his home.

Yeah.

You're just kinda like, alright, go.

Well, let's just deal with today then, shall we?

Um, and let's, let's get through this.

And I think, I think it is some of the most painful teaching

about Christianity in many ways.

It's the big question people suffer is why does, uh, people struggle

with is why does God allow suffering?

Mm-hmm.

And it's, it's one of those, like when you mix that with a sense of justice, so.

There are certain people in the world right now, we won't mention

names, who are, let's say, prospering out of the suffering of others.

Yeah.

Right.

And you look at that and if you are suffering and other people are

benefiting as a result of it, and they are not good people, you're

like, what is, what's the deal here?

Yeah.

But then you, you've also got a couple that with actually.

I can't read the Bible in all honesty and see that and go,

it's not like I wasn't warned.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I think that's a great, with the great, the things I love about the Psalms

Mm.

Is that it is often when the Psalmist David writes, he doesn't hold back.

And I love that about Christianity, about God.

You don't, it's not.

I need to read these words.

I need to believe these things outside of myself.

Yeah.

I'm human.

Yeah.

Jesus was human.

Yeah.

I need to put my, to my trust and I can cry out to him.

Mm.

And I can go, God, why on earth is this happening to me?

Um, you can just be real.

Yeah.

You can

with God, you totally can.

And I love that.

And I just encourage you be real God.

Yeah.

Don't, don't think, well, you know, I've done this, therefore

it must be going right.

It must be me.

Yeah.

Ask God.

Ask God why.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And even if you don't find the answer to Yeah.

Still keep pressing.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the fundamental thing, isn't it?

You

mm-hmm.

You, I like what Anna said, um, Anna's one of the, the team here at Crowd,

if you, if you're new to Crowd, um.

Anna, when she was talking about all the miscarriages she went to, went through and

people were like, well, where's your God?

And she's like, well, I'd rather go through this with God than without.

Yes.

Like, where else am I gonna go?

I don't have the answers, I don't understand it.

But what I do know is God is good and I can trust him and rely on

him in the midst of all of that.

Right?

And where am I gonna go without him?

I think is quite a remarkable question.

Um, in.

Many ways.

I do think though, that sometimes, um, and I don't wanna belittle

anybody's experience here.

But I, I, going back to a point that a made in his, in his talk about

people who lose their lives, they're martyred because of their faith.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

And often for me, I have to put my suffering in context.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My, my first world problems.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

And I, and I, I find that.

Some of the most inspiring people I know are actually people like Aiden,

Sonia, I think super inspiring people.

Just lovely people going through the, going through stuff

that we've got no idea about.

Yeah.

But just really faithful people, right?

Um, as some friends in the States, same, some friends in London, just

what they've been through, but being super faithful through the other side.

And I find that deeply inspiring because I go, well, you guys

have actually got something to.

To really, you could complain if you want to, but don't.

Yeah,

and some of the stuff that I, and I, I do have to, I remember when I, um, as you

can see, I'm missing part of my finger.

Um, I remember when I, when I had that accident, 20 some years ago.

Was it, it was a long, long time ago.

When was it?

20,

22 years ago.

I remember sitting on the couch at home.

Feeling like Uber, sorry for myself.

I mean like properly like down in the dumps and you

could go, well fair play Matt.

You did cut three of your fingers off, you know?

And it's like, that's kind of going on.

And you're like, yeah.

But I remember sitting there feeling sorry for myself and there

was, do you remember the TV show?

ER.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was er was on tv.

That's how long ago it was.

And, um, I was watching, and, and I appreciate this is just TV program,

but in that, the whole episode was about one of the doctors who'd flown

to be a doctor in Africa, like as a, you know, relief doctor type thing.

And in the show it changes his life.

And um, and you see some horrific things.

And I remember, and I know it's drama and I remember sitting there watching

that going, can't really complain about missing the top part of my finger.

Can I?

It's just like, and it just brought that sense of reality to me.

And, um, I think, you know, when Jesus said, Cantor all joy, uh, or James

counter all joy when the testament of your faith, I don't think he's talking

about your dishwasher breaking down.

I don't think that's the testament of your faith that he is talking about.

Yeah.

I think, is it, is it only Luke?

I reckon actually died of old age, everyone else.

Oh, is it John?

Was it John?

Yeah.

Died on the island of Patmos.

Yeah.

Pretty much everyone else had pretty

Some serious

issues.

Serious.

Serious issues.

Yeah.

More than no washing machine.

Breaking again.

Yes.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

It's a fascinating one, isn't it?

It is a fascinating one.

Ade.

Have you ever gone through that thing of feeling sorry for

yourself because you don't feel like God's answering your prayers?

Uh huh.

Not particularly.

Yeah, I have days where I'm grumpy because it's the same old, same

old, and you know, things haven't magically kind of gotten better.

Not that I expect them to, um, but with son and I, we're not the

kind of people that mope around and feel sorry for ourselves.

We're natural problem solvers.

My problem is I want to use the abilities that God gave me all the time.

And that means I can sometimes forget to rely on him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I might fix everything.

I drive Sonia nuts trying to fix everything.

It's the deep end.

I, I I tend to fall off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good point.

Just going back around to, you know, where is God amongst, you know, in

insert horrendous suffering of choice.

You know, in, in that statement, two things spring to mind.

First of all, in Genesis, God gave man dominion over the earth.

That means right.

This is yours now you look after it.

I'm just gonna stand on the sideline.

And yes, in his grace, God occasionally intervenes.

The other thing is where is God?

When you know people are losing their homes, people are literally.

Burning because they've been bombed in the religious war or whatever.

God was hanging on the cross for them the same way he was hanging on the cross

For you, for me, for everyone else.

Mm-hmm.

And it is, that is where God is in all of this, hanging on the cross.

So the horrors that we see in this life are the last horrors

that we will see in any life.

That's such a powerful way of putting it.

Mm-hmm.

Love that.

Mm-hmm.

Love that.

Um, and I also totally empathize with the fact you try and fix things.

Yeah.

Are you the same?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is it a male

thing, do you think?

I think it's one of the biggest things about being married, isn't it?

I mean, you, you see on any marriage book would be

don't

fix

it

sometimes.

Yeah.

Your wives, they don't want you to fix it, want you to say, okay.

And that's hard.

You are, you're agreeing with this, but I know you're not on a microphone.

Do we try and fix it too much?

I think you used to, uh, we calmed down a little bit.

I think you asked these days.

Yeah.

What I meant to do.

Yes.

Yeah.

Please gimme direction and leadership.

Yes,

we, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's funny isn't it?

You just.

That whole thing.

I, I don't, again, not to stereotype, but I think we do try and fix things.

Mm-hmm.

And it's very hard when you can't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I, when, when Ade said that, I just thought, where's our reliance?

Mm-hmm.

You know, we can, it's, it's not wrong to use things, not real wrong to

use tech to help us with this stuff.

It's not wrong to go to the doctors to see a, a therapist, but if your reliance

is on someone else, something else.

Yeah.

Not god.

It's always gonna fail, it's never gonna be quite enough.

If your alliance is on God, then he can use those other things,

um, for good can't he for you.

Yeah.

But whereas your Yeah.

Where, because when they fail

mm-hmm.

Your whole world fails.

Yeah.

But if your reliance is on God, you can't fail your, your, your held.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, that's such a good point.

Such a good point.

Right.

Lemme go back to the comments.

It's, it looks like some sort of pinging up.

There

is.

It is.

Some, somebody's pinging, someone's not got the phone on silent.

Um, anyway, uh, I've, uh, one of the most, d at least says one of my most

difficult faith-based decisions was choosing to reach out, struggling,

struggling young relatives a while ago.

Conviction told me to spend money on Bibles and creature comforts for them,

and another relative, older, and aware of my current financial limitations.

Was worried about using my resources this way, however.

Since that time, these children have seen more at peace.

I even saw one of them with their bible at a time when I was

starting to doubt my purpose.

Uh, I think that was God showing me we can help each other, not necessarily despite

our struggles, but because of them.

Mm-hmm.

Love that.

Uh, so true Alicia.

And I think in all of this, again, again, back to AID'S point, um, one of the things

I think God has provided for us in the midst of the struggle is the community.

Is, is, is is the sort of the failure church body, right?

Yeah.

Um, and I, I think, I think that's really a, a really powerful point there, Elisa.

Uh, that, um, we help each other not necessarily despite our

struggles, but because of them.

Uh, and I think

it is incumbent in many ways upon the church to, to, you know, the Bible says

that when one part hurts, we all hurt.

Yeah.

And so we have to reach out and, and, and help each other.

And I think that's a, a really interesting point actually.

One of the things I would say, um, you know that if you are

struggling in a certain area, right?

So let's say you, um, struggle with depression, um, I think one

of the things that I would do.

In that area is go and find somebody who is struggling with depression.

Not to sit there and go, we're both struggling with depression,

but to go, how can I serve you?

Yeah.

How can I help you?

Um, sorry, is that Yeah.

Shouldn't do that noise apparently.

Uh, but how can I help you?

How can I, how can I serve?

How can I give to you and sow some seeds into that whole area?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's good.

Do

you know what I mean?

It's that whole coming at it in the opposite spirit.

Mm-hmm.

It's like.

Um, again, I mean, you're not to big a paid too much 'cause he's

on, you know, he is on screen.

I don't wanna make his head too big, but Aiden and Sonia are awesome people.

Right.

So Sonia is kind of, you know, not able to get out and about too much,

but she's always texting people.

Yes.

Yeah.

You know, it's praying for people.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I think that's awesome.

Who can you serve?

Who can you help?

Yeah.

Um, in your community would be a, a big point.

Um.

Oh, Jan Birch is now in the comments.

Alright, Jane.

Um, right, I tell you what, let's move on to Live Lounge.

I almost forgot the name.

Um, so this is the part of the service where we are gonna switch

off the YouTube livestream and move into, uh, the Google meets.

Um, let me put the link in the comments while I remember.

Have you done it?

Legend.

Uh, Sharon's put the link in the comments.

Um, if you are watching online now, why don't you come join us over there.

Just click the link.

It just works a lot like Zoom.

You don't have to have your camera on, but if you've got one and you don't

mind turning on, uh, I'll be in there.

Dan will be in there a's gonna be in there.

Uh, it'll be great to see you.

Um, if you are a regular, if you're new, come say, how's it?

Uh, it'd be great to see you in live lounge.

Um, but before we close the livestream, uh, Ade anything, uh, anything

from you bud that, um, in closing?

Yeah, I think just coming back to community, when you think about, um,

in first Corinthians 12, what Paul is talking about, one body, many parts,

and he likens, you know, different people or different parts of the body.

Uh.

I think we all have things that we struggle with in some much greater

than others, but it's like we all tend to struggle with different things.

So as we come a part of a greater body of Christ, we can help each other because

yes, you know, this might be broken on me, but you know, I have this that works

and that's broken on you, so maybe I can help you with that and and so on.

I think that's worth consideration.

Yeah.

Very ing, I think.

Um, and I don't think is, does the WhatsApp link on the Crowd site still?

Actually that doesn't work.

That needs

to be taken

down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I was gonna say, but you can still message, so if there are things

Yeah, you can still email that you, you know, struggling with this week,

then yeah, we'd love to pray for you.

So just send them through and we'll happily, um, happily pray.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Um, yeah, do, do that.

Uh, I've, we've got in the comments now.

Go Crowd Church slash meet is the online, uh, is the live lounge, um.

Alicia says here, participating in the live streams was

also a faith-based decision.

I'm so introverted that I was scared to, uh, but this community

is a, uh, is warm, uh, this way as it seemed, uh, in the recordings.

Well, I, it's very kind of you to say that we're warm.

Uh,

but it's lovely to have you, Alicia.

Yes.

And do keep coming along and, um, you know, I, I appreciate Online church is,

is one of those things where you could just watch and not engage in the comments.

Um, but it's, it's lovely that you do, uh, and it's really great to have you in what

you say and your input is, it's wonderful.

So, uh, let's switch off the live stream.

Let's head on over to live lounge.

Do come meters in there.

Uh, and, uh, if you are around next week, it is Easter Sunday.

Mm-hmm.

It's you.

It is, it's

me speaking.

Yeah.

So, uh, come listen to the right Reverend Dan Orange, uh, come speak.

Uh, it will be, uh, great.

Uh, I think Anna is, are you with Anna next week?

Coasting.

Oh, it's your birthday.

Oh, Sharon's birthday.

So please do send all gifts and cards courtesy of Crowd Church, Liverpool, um,

oh, no gifts.

We're declawing apparently.

Um, so yeah.

Awesome.

All right.

God bless you.

I'll see you in, uh, live lounge.

Um, but if you're gonna end with us on the live stream, uh, have a fantastic

week wherever you're on the world.

Uh, we'll see you next time.

Bye for now.