When You're Tired of Hiding

Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church, to our Sunday live stream. You are

most welcome. My name is Will and it's lovely to see you this evening. I'm

joined today by Mike Harris. Mike, say hello.

Hello, it is great to see you all. I am really looking forward to this, feeling

incredibly cool in this very posh studio. And yeah, really looking forward to

it.

Mike is wowed by the tech this evening. Wow. You know, it is pretty impressive.

And you'll notice we are almost color coordinated wearing red today, but we're

not really talking about that Merseyside event today. But anyway, here we are in

red. Very nice to see you, Mike. And yeah, good to have you in this very cool

studio. Yeah. So yeah, what's been going on this week?

Any—

Well, I—

How's the gardening?

The gardening is going well. It's a good season. Yeah, everything is growing.

All the weeds are keeping me in business, which is great. And yeah, got the

mower out and all is good.

It's a good strapline, that weeds keeping me in business.

That's right. Yeah, I just go around sowing seeds of weeds in all these

customers' gardens.

You are live online. Oh yeah. This is not good for your client base. Sorry,

Chris. Great. Yeah, I love this. We have some blossom in our— we have a cherry

and we have an apple and they just like they just come alive. It's beautiful,

beautiful sunshine in Liverpool. I don't know where you're listening from around

the world, but we're celebrating spring at the moment in Liverpool. It's very

fine. So if you're new to Crowd Church, stick around and enjoy. What we're going

to do is we're going to have a talk in a minute. We've started a new series

kicked off last week by Matt called Jesus the Revolutionary— what you think you

know about Jesus and what the reality is. And tonight we've got the next talk on

that, which I'll introduce in a minute. And then after that, we'll come back and

Mike and I will chat about it with our speaker in Conversation Street. Please do

make a note of any questions or comments that you've got in the chat as we go

along, and we'll try and pick up as many of those as we can in Conversation

Street afterwards. And after Conversation Street, there is then a live lounge.

So please do stick around and come, um, and just chat further informally with

some others, um, after the live stream. And if you're watching this on

recording, you obviously can't join the live lounge, but, um, please do check

out everything else on the Crowd site. There's lots and lots of resources. Uh,

the only other thing to mention is that, uh, we are starting a new alpha course

on the 5th of May. We're currently running an alpha, have lots of people from

around the country and the world actually joining in. So if you're interested in

doing an alpha but you can't make it to a physical one and you've maybe been

part of Crowd or come across Crowd, please do join us on the 5th of May. If you

could send an email, Matt, is that the best way? Go to the website. Go to the

website and make yourself known and there's a form there. If you want to join an

alpha. And yeah, that would be great. We're having a lot of fun on the current

alpha. And yeah, it's a great community, even though we're scattered around the

place and haven't yet met face to face. It's been really cool. Oh, and the only

other thing to mention is Aidan and Sonia. I don't know whether you're online

because I can't see the comments, but happy anniversary. We don't know how long

you've been married, but 18 years. 18 years. Congratulations and lovely to have

you this evening. So, Mike, how long have you been married?

20+ years.

20+? Mike, I have to say, you are covering yourself in glory being live on the

internet this evening.

It's somewhere around the mid-20s.

Now, are you just being coy because you don't want people to know how old you

are?

Really?

Have you forgotten how long you've been married?

I, I, um, I know when my anniversary is, but I'm just not sure how many of them

we've had.

Yeah.

But it's definitely more than 20 and less than 30.

Okay, good. Well, yeah, that narrows it down. A decade isn't bad. It's not bad

at all.

It's not bad.

Debbie, I don't know whether you're watching this. Probably best not. Right,

well, with no further ado, I'd love, it's my delight to introduce David Connolly

this evening, who's going to speak on Jesus the Revolutionary. And Dave is well

known to many of you who've been tracking with Crowd Church, and it's fantastic

to have you, Dave.

It's great to be with you guys. Over to me.

Over to you.

Over to me. Hi guys, it's great to be with you again, and I want to pick up the

second part in this series about Jesus and there are certain words I really

struggle with, and one of those words— thanks, Matt— is revolutionary. And so I

won't say it more than that once, um, but just what does that look like for us?

And, um, these talks will unwrap that. And this evening we're going to look at,

um, the title would be Seen and Known. And if you've got a Bible, you may want

to just, um, open it up in John's Gospel, chapter 4, I'm just going to reference

some verses between, um, verses 1 to 42. It's the whole story of the woman at

the well. And, um, there's something really, really powerful about the moment

when Jesus meets someone who's trying to stay unseen. And, um, you might be able

to, um, recall maybe times in your own life where you're just, you know, if you

have to be there, you're there, but you don't want people to see you. You just

want to ending. And you will see this throughout the story. And we find Jesus,

um, sitting at a well waiting. He's not waiting for a crowd. He's not waiting

for some religious leaders. He's not waiting for anybody besides one woman. And

this is what we often call a divine appointment. A woman who is hiding, she's

come at noon. Everybody else, all the other ladies, would have been there in the

morning getting and the water, socializing, being community. But this lady, she

comes at noon, the hottest part of the day. No one else would be there. Why is

she there? Because simply she's wanting to hide. She's not there because it's

convenient or because it's safer. She's there because of her shame. And, um,

it's very clear throughout this story there's lots of things that we can learn

and appreciate as we read our way through this. You know, it would be true to

say so many people spend their life avoiding people, avoiding situations. They

live a life around avoidance. Maybe if we're honest, we would say that that's

where we are in this season of life. Obviously, very few of us will be going off

to the well, a literal well, but you know, it would be true of many of us that

we develop a way of living that structures our lives around being isolated and

away from others. So we become isolated, untouchable, nobody can get too close.

And quite often our shame keeps us away from people and will keep people away

from us. There's some amazing truths in this passage as we read through it. It

just emphasizes the love and the humanity of Jesus. I love Jesus that he does

lots of things, you know, society says he shouldn't do. You know, as you start

reading this story, it says he had to go through Samaria. We read in verse 4,

and, um, you know, at that time Jews would not travel through that nation. They

would travel all the way around. They'd go way, way out of the way because they

did not want to come in contact with, um, Samaritans. They would, they would

totally want to avoid them. And, you know, they actually thought— Jews actually

thought of Samaritans as heretics and half-breeds. A bit harsh, isn't it? But

this is historical, you know, and this is how they relate. But that obviously

wouldn't be the motivation for Jesus going against the cultural norms. So, um,

it's, it's not a geographical or cultural thing Jesus is trying to blend into.

Not at all. He knew that there was an appointment for him. And you know, if you,

if you read through the gospels, you'll see this is such a significant

conversation that Jesus has with this woman, you know. And when you look about

it, in, in all the conversations Jesus has, this is one of the most key in his

ministry. Right, you know, so let's just list some of those things. What are

some of those hindrances? What are some of those things that could have, um, put

Jesus off from talking to this woman? So we know there's lots of aggravation

between Jews and Samaritans, historically built within them, prejudices. So it

wasn't about ethnic division, religious hostility, gender barriers, social

rejection. No, not at all. In verse 7, Jesus says, "Will you give me a drink?"

Just think, he sat at the well waiting for her. She comes and he speaks to her.

Now, unfortunately, the disciples aren't with him because he would have been—

they would have had a completely different outlook. And he speaks with this

lady, and he engages with this lady, and he treats her with respect. And I think

they are three things that we all need. But this lady who's living a life of

shame and isolation, Jesus's words speak deep and meaningfully to her. Jesus

isn't intimidated by her story. You know, are there some people that, you know,

we don't talk to them because they've got a bit of a reputation? And she would

have had a 5-star reputation if you read the story. There would have been lots

of reasons why you shouldn't. I wonder if there's any people in our lives that

we don't talk to because they come with a past, a present, You know what the

wonderful thing is? God wants us to fully know him, and he wants to fully know

us. That lady could keep nothing hidden from Jesus, and yet, knowing her, he

still received her. He still spoke to her lovingly, kindly. The conversation

unfolds, and Jesus just, just asks her questions. He engages with her. How busy

are we? How many times do we not engage with people because of what we know

about them, or maybe what they look like, and we miss a wonderful opportunity?

Jesus talks to her and he asks some amazing questions. And you may not have

listed these questions maybe in this order, but one of the questions he says And

when he's talking to her, he's basically said, you know, are you married? And he

says this in verse 18: You have had 5 husbands, and the man you now have is not

your husband. Well, that could have been a real conversation stopper, eh? And,

um, but I was saying to Mike before, you know, some people love numerology, you

know, in the Bible. And so I count 5 plus 1 is 6, and to my knowledge, 6 is the

number of incompletion. But you know who she's talking to? She's talking to

Jesus, and Jesus is called the bridegroom, and he's the perfect one. And, um,

it's only in, in Jesus that we can find real fulfilment. Real fulfilment is only

found in Christ Jesus. This lady is, is searching for a relationship that will

meet her needs, that will fill that void inside of her. And whoever we are, I

want to say both in the spiritual and in the natural, that Jesus is the only one

who brings us full and complete fulfilment. I mean, that was a moment when

everything could have just fallen apart. You know, I think if we were critiquing

this, I think people would just say, oh, that's a conversation killer. But it

was a word of revelation And in how he said it just touched their heart. See,

because Jesus's words did not speak— it, you know, Jesus didn't speak shame over

her. He didn't lecture her. He didn't reject her. He didn't judge her. Instead,

he reveals himself. See, because what was really obvious, as Jesus is sat there,

he is valuing her. He is listening to her and he is valuing her. He says in

verse 26, I who speak to you am he. And if you read through this conversation,

I'll just pull now some headlines here. He is proclaiming that he is the

Messiah, the one they have been waiting for and longing for, the one who is

going to bring a new way of life, a new way of living, a way of freedom

fulfilment, and deliverance. But Jesus, the Messiah, he's talking to the woman

at the well, and he reveals himself not to the elite, but to the overlooked, to

the isolated, to the broken and the downcast. This changes everything. Being

known by Jesus is not the end of this lady's story. It's the beginning of her

freedom. Verse 14 says this— excuse me— whoever drinks of the water that I will

give him will never be thirsty again. See, when we receive Jesus, it doesn't

remove, um, all life's obstacles, trials, and tribulations from us, but neither

does it remove the completeness that we have in Christ. Those trials and

difficulties can never remove that from us, the knowledge that Jesus says, I'll

never leave you nor forsake you. Now, if you've heard me speak, you probably

said, he's saying his favorite verse again. Absolutely no apology, because it's

true. You know, I can guarantee us in this life that we will face storms and

trials, and that's not unbelief. But you know what? That's when the church does

best. If you read in the book of Acts, you know, church does best when it's

doing what it should be doing. Persecution comes, trials come, and the church is

scattered, and the good news of Jesus goes out across this world as we know it.

And that is still the same today. This living water is living. It's life. It

brings life. It nourishes. I'm sure, Mikey, you would have lots of, um, plantsy

things that you can tell me about, because I know nothing. I know nothing about

nothing. Um, but you know, but you know, it's living water. Living things bring

life. And, and that's what we need to know, that Jesus, as he's speaking to her,

he's reaching out to her in love, and it is touching her heart, and it is

rekindling— it was, um, igniting life in her very being. You know, I don't know,

um, I don't know if many of us have ever really gone thirsty. I mean, I think

the closest I've been was traveling across a desert into Libya, um, from Egypt.

Um, but we had tanks and tanks of water, so even though I was thirsty and I was

in a desert, I knew I wasn't gonna most likely not die of thirst. Um, so when we

talk about this, we just think We could just do with a drink and we can easily

access it. But I'm talking about, you know, some people, they are so thirsty,

they are so dry that, you know, it's something that I struggle to be able to get

my head around because I've never been in that place. But I'm talking about

Jesus saying, I will quench your thirst. He will just come into those dry

places, those barren places. Those places that are all dried up, no more life.

And he will bring his living water into our lives, and they will start to

flourish as his living water comes into there. You know, this lady, she is, um,

she's at a well, you know. And, um, you know, this water that she receives from

Christ, these words, they go deep and they not only go deep, they— they're

sustaining here, and they are eternal. These words, um, you know, she goes to

the well and she takes— what she takes— a pitcher, a large jar to draw water.

And we know that she leaves it there. But, you know, for many of us, we are

looking for things like approval, we're looking for relationships, we're looking

for success. I mean, even sex, um, or whatever it is, you know, we're looking

for all these different things that we put our hopes and our trust in, thinking

that they will bring full fulfilment to us. And it's not that these things are

wrong, it's just that they don't bring lasting fulfilment. And, um, it's so easy

to run dry. We find something and it's wonderful and sparkly and great for a

while, but it soon runs dry. You know, Jesus didn't expose this woman's

emptiness. He reached out to her and he told her what he brings, and he told her

why he was there. And it says in verse 28, so the woman left her water jar And

verse 28, she leaves it behind. Why? Because when we encounter Jesus, our old

identity and the things that we sought for fulfilment, we don't need to take

them with us because we will find exclusively fulfilment in Jesus. I would say

that is my testimony. He knows what is good for us and he longs to bless us.

Something remarkable happens in this. She goes back to the people. Listen to

this. She goes back to the people, people she's been hiding from, the people who

knew her, who knew her story, the very same people she'd been avoiding. And in

verse 29, she says this: 'Come see a man who told me everything I ever did.

Isn't that amazing? No judgment. Jesus knew her and received her. And that is

true for you and me. Jesus knows us and he receives us. Jesus— it didn't— it

wasn't ignoring her past. It wasn't— Jesus wasn't saying it doesn't matter,

because our lives do matter. Our brokenness does matter. But it's in spite of

that, Jesus knew everything and he's still engaged with her. He still reached

out to her. He still spoke to her and welcomed her. And her testimony, we read

in verse 39, many— she goes back to these people who knew her, says, come and

see a man, he's told me everything I've ever done. And you know, um, Biblical

historians will say a small revival takes place, it does wane, and then Philip

goes back a little while later and a larger and long— longer-lasting move of God

takes place. And I think there's about 149 villages and this mass revival is

taking place. But isn't it amazing how God would want to start a work in a woman

with reputation not necessarily in the criteria that we probably would pick. The

woman who hid becomes the one who leads others to Jesus. Come with me back to

that well and meet this man. There's a challenge. Let me land this today by

saying there's a challenge for each of us today as Christians. You know, it's

possible to follow God. It's possible to walk with Jesus. And still be hiding.

It's possible to say, yes, I'm a Christian, and not feel, not really believe

that you are welcomed by him. And when we feel like that, we live in isolation,

we hide, we, we don't believe that his love is so powerful to love us beyond our

brokenness. You might serve around church, you might do X, Y, and Z, you might

be at the forefront of the worship, you may sing, you may sway, cumbion,

whatever, you may know all the songs, but personally you struggle getting close

to Jesus because you're not confident that he receives you. He knows you, you

can't hide, and he still says, come, I love you. In our thinking, sometimes we

keep areas— I'm sure it's no, none of you guys, probably just me, you know— we

keep certain areas of our lives almost untouched. Too painful, we're too

ashamed, maybe. Leave them untouched and unopened. And that means that they're

unsurrendered. And if they're unsurrendered, the life of God can't really come

in and redeem them. And Jesus is our Redeemer. Jesus is not interested in having

superficial relationships with us. Just like with that lady, he sat there

waiting for her. You know, and I'm sure she was really surprised to see this man

who starts a life-changing conversation with her. 1 Samuel 16 says the Lord

looks on the heart, and we need to know that. Doesn't matter what comes out of

our mouth, he knows our heart first of all. I wonder where we're still hiding

areas of our lives from him. Let me encourage you just to surrender them, even

this evening. My friends, you know, if you're exploring the faith, let me

encourage you. If you're feeling, well, you know, David, it sounds really good,

and I can see, you know, Will and Mike, they look really great guys, and X, Y,

and Z, and— but you may be feeling that you're too far gone, you're too broken,

you've done X, Y, and Z, and you might think, maybe I can just sort myself out a

bit and I can come. That's not how Jesus wants you. He wants you to come as you

are, broken and rough. And he wants you to come now, because today scripture

says is the day of salvation. Don't try and polish yourself up to come before

Jesus, because he knows you. Just come as you are and he will receive you. Come

and surrender your life to him. He knew everything about that lady at the well

and he welcomed her. I love Romans 5:8. It says this: God shows his love for us

Romans 5:8

in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for me. I'm going to say it

again, my friends. This applies to you wherever you find yourself this evening.

God showed his love for you, for me, for Will, for Mike, in that whilst we were

still sinners, Christ died for us. That's how much God loves you and I. What if

being fully known is not something to fear, but something that leads us into

true freedom. And my friend, when Christ leads us into true freedom, we will go

back like that lady, back to her village, back to her community, and say, 'Let

me introduce you to somebody.' He told me everything I've ever done and welcomed

me. Jesus is still meeting people at the well, as it were. Still crossing

boundaries. Still pursuing the overlooked and the isolated. Still offering

living water. My friend, you and I, we are not disqualified. We are not unseen.

We are not hidden. You are not beyond His reach because He died with His arms

outstretched. And I seriously want to say to you today, wherever you find

yourself, whether you know Him or whether you're searching, His arms are still

outstretched to me and you. God bless you.

Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, Dave. That is— I love that passage. I love that

story, and I just love what you said. Yeah, it's a warm embrace. And yeah,

absolutely true. This is, this is the Jesus that, that we know and we love and

we serve. Um, I love the idea of, yeah, that Jesus trying to find the unseen.

You know, there's, there's all the crowds, there's all the ones that desperately

want to see him, and he treks, as you say, across Samaria, forbidden kind of a

place for a Jew, to find the one that doesn't even know she's looking, really.

And yeah, I wonder what was going through Jesus's head at that, because I mean,

he knew that he was going to meet this woman. Yeah. And I guess he must be quite

excited about that, anticipating, but also not knowing, you know.

Yeah.

It's like, how do you start that conversation with someone that's going to such

lengths to hide without, like, scaring them off?

I think because he was compelled. When I said he had to go, I mean, the better

translation is he's compelled.

Yeah.

You know, compelled because he wants to do the will of the Father. Yeah. You

know, out of love. Yeah. That divine appointment's amazing.

Yeah. Amazing.

I love that. I love the idea that he's gone out of his way into dangerous

territory in order to find this one. Woman. Um, it is amazing. I also love the

fact that he listened. He, he has the great revelation to give to this young

lady, and yet he listens to her and responds to what she says. You think, how

many times have I come with a good idea and I'm looking at the person but I'm

not listening to them? I'm just waiting for them to take a breath so that I can

deliver the thing that I think is gonna be the antidote, you know, the thing

that's going to cure everything. Yet the creator of the universe listens to this

lady and responds to what she says. Absolutely. Yeah, that's, you know, that's a

challenge, isn't it, to me? Absolutely. And, and to all of us, isn't it, to, to

listen to people and, you know, respond to what they're saying?

Um, yeah, and it's an absolute masterclass in it because she's come with this

need of water. And, and that's where the conversation goes. It's like, yeah, let

me tell you about water. And, uh, I, I could— as you were talking, I can think

of one time when I've had that. I've been really, really thirsty, and it was

climbing a mountain, very ill-equipped, because I never really meant to go up

this mountain. And, um, I, I just— every bit I got to is like, oh, I'll go a

little bit further on. And there wasn't a path. I didn't have any food, didn't

have any water, um, and it was a hot day. And, uh and I had to get to the snow

line so that I could put some snow in my little water bottle. So I had to go

quite high to get this water, and I just remember that sense of— and, and, you

know, when you're thirsty, it really does become all-consuming. It's like you

cannot think of anything else. You just need water. That's literally the only

thing. Um, you can utterly, utterly focused on it. And, and I wonder I wonder

how much in, in this woman's heart that— or whether, I don't know, when we have

that sort of level of thirst, maybe we, maybe we learn to push it down. Maybe

she'd learned to like, I can, I can cope with all this, I'm still searching for

water. But, but yeah, what that would have unlocked in him. No, this is water

that your thirst will be quenched and you'll never have to get water again. That

would be an amazing thing to have heard.

I mean, can you imagine, like, all the other ladies, all the other ladies in the

village come in the morning.

Yeah.

And they've got that interaction, you know, that's what about the lace, what's

on sale, the local ASDA or whatever. Obviously there are other supermarkets

available, um, but you know, they would have been talking about the topics of

the day, you know, what the kids are doing. Yeah. And she's excluded. Yeah, from

that, you know, she hasn't come with one or two other ladies, all right? She's

on her own. And I think isolation is probably one of the— it's a punishment,

isn't it? You know, um, to be— I, you know, you, you're starved of relationship,

you're starved of interaction, you're starved of love. You haven't got a voice

to hear or a voice to share with other people like you. Yeah, but because she's

living the shame.

Yeah, and probably even more so in that, in that culture, in a small, a small

town where, you know, that is your whole life. It's not like you have lots of

friends kind of that you could phone or whatever. It's like if she's isolating

herself from her own community, that's, that's very isolated.

And that's the power of shame, isn't it?

I know, absolutely, absolutely.

It's the, you know, every time she goes to the well, it's just a constant

reminder, isn't it? Even if she's not thinking about it, it's like, I'm here at

midday because I am ashamed.

Yeah, absolutely.

And, and, and she gets confused, doesn't she? You know what Jesus says to her,

you know, I can give you living water. And she's like, great, I won't have to

come back here again.

Yeah.

And you think You know, she hates going to the well, doesn't she? She hates it

because it's a constant reminder of the shame, a constant reminder of, you know,

and it must have been terrible. It must have been terrible.

In that moment of the conversation, I just find it really staggering. Um, she's—

the content of the conversation has such an impact The very people, and even the

men there who she's trying to avoid, yeah, something has touched their heart so

dynamically. They're the people she goes to. Yeah, yeah, you know, um, I mean,

I'd be thinking they don't deserve it, you know. If it was me, you know, people

like that shame me and ridicule, yeah, I'd probably be thinking, I don't know if

they deserve it because Shallow, um, you know, but she doesn't. She goes back

because I think when you experience— my testimony would be, having experienced

God's grace, I am compelled to be gracious with other people. I find it, you

know, I was most of the time I was able to find a bit more grace for people, and

that's because I know the depth and the sheer amount of grace that God has

poured into my life. And I think that's what's happening in this lady. Yeah,

you've got— you know, she's forgot what the mayor said to her.

Yeah. And that's, that's astonishing, isn't it? I mean, she leaves the water jar

from the first point which she brought out, which is really interesting. She

left the very thing that she's there to do, but then it's like she's completely

forgotten the fact that she's going out in the middle of the day and isolating

herself from the community. It's like, that doesn't matter because look what

I've found. And that's, that's an astonishing picture of that power of encounter

with, with Jesus, that she would forget all the shame, she'd forget all the

ridicule or all the kind of behind her back stuff and just go back and say, come

and see this guy. I mean, was she even thinking, what are they even gonna say to

that? You know, how are they going to respond to me saying anything because I've

really messed up in so many ways?

But she—

that just, just pales, you know.

And it got— you've got a, a— I'm just sort of thinking this as I'm talking, so a

little bit of blue sky thinking. But I was thinking Nicodemus comes to Jesus at

night, doesn't he? Because he's a little bit ashamed. He doesn't want to be— he

doesn't want people— he's respected. He's got the opposite problem. He's like

one of the big dudes, the big leaders, and he comes to Jesus at night because he

doesn't want to be seen with him, maybe.

That's right.

And yet, and, and yet here you've got the, the total opposite. Yeah, yeah,

they're both a little bit ashamed.

Yeah. And, and you've got Zacchaeus, and you've got— exactly. Yeah, I think for

them, they have something of a hunger already that, you know, Zacchaeus, he's

come and claimed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicodemus, he's come. Yeah, they've had something.

Yeah, yeah.

Where this— and, and they were obviously despised in this very similar ways, you

know, as this lady, for different reasons, obviously. Um, but God sees the seed,

doesn't he? He sees— I love that he knows our heart.

Yeah.

And he sees our brokenness, and he presses in. He doesn't send a disciple,

didn't send an angel.

Yeah.

Jesus himself. And such a key part when you look at the ministry of Jesus, this

first encounter. With this woman. And it's just remarkable, like, the

restoration. We— because you continue to read through in Acts, you know, that as

they start to— the church to be sent out, there's a move of God, you know, in

Samaria. And they are scattered out into the nations, you know. And I just think

God's redemption and God's redemptive power. I think it's something we don't

talk enough about, how he's able to take— would we have picked that woman? Would

she be the best person to say that message? I wonder. They're like 10, 30

ladies, they're lovely.

Yeah, yeah, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The husbands have got jobs and the kids have got teeth and things like that.

They'll be respected more.

Yeah, you know, your people will receive them.

Yeah.

And, and in one sense you could say, yeah, they would But people received this

woman who was at the well because I believe that transformation, I believe it's

a visual thing. I think it's something that starts within us and it works its

way out. The day I became a Christian with a friend of ours, Lee Davis, um, and

his dad, and we were both 19 or something like that, and we were both in the

same event, um, not together, and, um And I seen him coming forward, responding

to the gospel. And he had a reputation and a heart of this guy. And, um, and he

went forward and, you know, and I went for it and I thought it was all going to

go crazy. But, you know, when Lee's dad Kev went back into the community, I

mean, there was a trans— people knew, people were talking. I mean, I said the

very Next day after we got saved, he threw me through a quick save window when

he saw me. So it wasn't quite fast enough, it wasn't quite fast enough for me,

to be honest. And, um, but you know, honestly, people in our community were

talking about him, and he was— the transformation and the fruit of repentance in

his life, people just talked about him, and, and it was wonderful. Not so much

about me because I was such a flake, if I'm honest, you know. Um, I'm a slower,

you know, I'm a bit— yeah, that's why it is.

Thanks, man.

One of those revolutionaries. I'm a slow one. Um, but you know, it was wonderful

to see. And even now when I think about it, when, you know, when I see Lee, you

know, and talk about his dad, people knew that something had happened to Kev

because his life was different. How he spoke was certainly different than how he

deal with you was totally different, you know. And I think that's what

transformation— that's what we need to be looking for, transformation. Yeah,

that woman, the transformation, the fruits of repentance in that woman's life.

Yeah. So I mean, yeah, so if you relate to that, that there's— I mean, even as

Dave's been talking and— or reminding yourself that story, that there's those

things that hidden but just kind of weigh you down. You know, this is, this is

an example and many other examples. And that's a great one about Lee's dad, um,

of where that encounter with Jesus supplants all that stuff. It just overwrites

it to the point where this woman didn't even care about who she was talking to

or who they were. She's just like, this is amazing.

Yeah.

Um, but I think, I mean, that's a very real thing, isn't it? Being hidden and

wanting to stay a bit hidden, whether it be hiding behind your, your kind of

mask of lots of friends, talking all the time, whatever, or actually physical

isolation. I think if we're honest, I think that's probably all of our

experience to an extent of wanting to be hidden. And, uh, and again, that just

the beauty of this story of Jesus just gently, you know, not accusing, just

offering. I think, I think I wrote down what the phrase— it was, uh, uh, no

exposure, just an offer. You know, that he wasn't interested in exposing. And

that's exactly the same with us. That, that is the relationship that Jesus

offers to us. He knows those things. Um, but yeah, I don't know whether that

resonates with you at all, Mike.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a real challenge, isn't it, to be, to be honest

with First of all, with God, you know, I think it says somewhere else, doesn't

it, that we should confess our sins to each other. And I just think, you know,

I've thought about this quite a lot recently about, you know, God knows

everything. As you were saying, God knows everything about my life, yet I still

find it hard, even though I know he knows, to, to say, to be honest and to speak

out, you know, to pray to God and say, God, I'm feeling angry about this. Even

there's something still in me that thinks if I don't say it, it'll stay hidden.

And I think, like, you know, it just— I think the reason why it's so important

to be honest with God is because it, it shows that I have enough faith to

believe that this terrible thing is not going to keep you from me. It's not

gonna make you run away. Because, you know, I think deep down what, what I'm

thinking is that if I say this thing, even though I— even as I'm saying it, I

don't believe it, but if I say this thing, that, that it's just gonna— God's

gonna find it abhorrent and want to, want to leave. Um, and so by— it's an act

of faith, isn't it? It's faith in the love of God to say, even though I'm going

to tell you this thing, I believe that you're going to love me anyway.

Yeah, yeah.

So to be, to be honest with God, but then also to be honest with each other. And

I, you know, I've been, um, talking to the youth about, about the same thing,

about, you know, having those relationships with a couple of people where you

can be honest and where people can be honest with you. But, but it's a challenge

because I'm like Am I mature enough to have a relationship like that where,

where people— where I— where people can be honest with me? It's like that. I

don't know. I hope I am.

Yeah.

Um, but it's a choice, isn't it?

It's a choice that Jesus accepts us for a start. And yeah, as you say, it's

almost a discipline to like, I've got to say these things because it's

demonstrating that, that confidence. Yeah, I think you talked about in your

talk, Dave. Um, so a number of years ago, and, uh, and kind of ongoing, you

know. I've had moments where I struggle with depression, and just— I knew,

because isolation is absolutely what I do, you know. There's no way I want to— I

don't want anyone to make me feel better. I don't want to talk to anyone. I just

like— that is a really isolating thing. And I knew I had to just set up a little

WhatsApp group, yeah, of— I think it's about 5 guys, and it's It's a real

discipline when I'm having a dark day. It's like, I don't want anyone to phone

me up, I don't want to talk through anything, but I just need to put a message

on going, struggling, because I know these guys are for me. Yeah, I know they

know me and I know they'll pray for me.

Yeah.

And, and having those, those things that kind of force us to, to try and be a

bit exposed, as you were saying, I think is really important because really

powerful, because isolation is something that will always come back to bite You

know, it's a very, very natural human reaction to, to just shut ourselves off

because things are painful. We're hurt. This woman was hurt, had been hurt by

her community. There was probably a lot of shame as well, and there was that

hunger and that desperation. All those things are going to isolate you, um, and

sometimes you just need to find a way to, yeah, keep yourself connected. Um,

yeah, and, and that's what, that's what Jesus allows you to do because of that

utter, utter acceptance, um, that Jesus has for you. And again, really well

demonstrated in this, in this story.

Yeah, well, what I was just thinking about, um, I, you know, I think, I think,

you know, setting up a WhatsApp group like that and, and just saying something

as simple as struggling, something I just think is incredibly powerful.

Incredibly powerful. Um, I was just thinking about Jesus as a revolutionary, um,

and thinking another challenge, um, as you were talking, Dave, I was thinking

like some people, you know, who you read about, go looking for conflict, don't

they? It's like it's almost— it's the way they gain likes or they gain

popularity, they just go looking for conflict. So they don't necessarily believe

in what they're saying, they just go looking to cause mayhem and to come up

against— just want to be argument— want an argument. Whilst with Jesus, it's

almost like— I don't know how you feel— it doesn't feel like he went looking for

conflict, but just by being him, he came into conflict. Yeah, with, with the

world. Um, um, You know, for us, it's like if we choose to follow Jesus, we, we

are going to come up against conflict, guaranteed. And so if, if in your life

you are experiencing zero conflict all of the time for long periods of time,

there's, there's a challenge there, isn't that? That there is a strong

likelihood that something's gone a bit awry. And that maybe, you know, I don't

know, I'm keen to know what you think.

I think we relate. I mean, I've been in the book of Acts for, seems like

forever, and, um, been quite a lot of writing on it, um, and we're also taking a

year to go through it at the tab, um, but, you know, besides the obvious thing

about, you know, the Holy Spirit coming and all these things, but if you look at

that early church, they saw amazing things. But Jesus is no longer being

persecuted you know, for what he's saying, because he's, he's in glory. But, you

know, um, you go from this and all these people are wanting to join the church,

and it says then that they slow off because of the persecution that is

happening. Well, you will— for me, you know, as the church is growing,

persecution comes and it is scattered, and it grows even more, you know. And we

live in a world where it's like everything You know, if we're not living in

victory, you know, church is to— you're not living in victory if you're having

challenges or, you know, turmoil or whatever. But we had open doors at the

tabernacles, and there's a guy there in Asia, and he'd been a Muslim and he'd

come to Jesus and he was sharing the gospel with people and they took him and

they covered him in petrol and they set fire to him, covered him head to foot in

petrol and they set fire to him, and his legs went on fire. And his testimony

is, fortunately only me legs were burnt. And that is testimony, fortunately only

my legs were burnt and I'm able to tell people about Jesus.

Wow.

I mean, most of us like would be, yeah, well, why did you let me even legs get

them, you know, but, you know, and I think there's something in the West where

we think any form of conflict or any, um, trials or tribulations that come

against us, you know, it's wrong. But what happens if they're the very things

that really should be pushing us into God and bringing us, you know, to

maturity? That, that's what I personally think they are. I think, you know, as

church, we need to stop whinging and start saying, hey, maybe this, maybe all

this thing is happening, it's like God is doing something, we're just not seeing

it. Yeah, you know, just, just one point, you know, Mike, about, um, when I just

emphasize that when Jesus spoke to her, you know, it was love. But can you

imagine, now, where's your husband? You know, I mean, that's a tough one, isn't

it? You know, and I know the 5, you've had 5 others Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's

not just the words, is it? It's that, you know, people are, you know, Father

God's created people, but it's how we can say the, you know, the appropriate

things that might sound strong. Yeah, you know, but it's also what is it

flowing. Jesus is just saying, I love you in spite of that. Yeah, you know, I

love you in spite of that. And we've all got things I'm sure, you know, and

there'll be people like, you don't know Christ, saying, I couldn't come to

Christ because I've done this. Yeah, well, you're not alone, because most of us

have done most of those things as well, you know. And he still receives those.

And I think, yeah, I think one of the things I thought about tonight afresh on

this story is when she goes back to the village and says, here's a man that told

me everything I did. And I wonder how much of that village is like, oh, this guy

I've got to meet. It's like, I want to see this woman get a really good telling

off. If he knows everything she's done, this is going to be good. Yeah, good

entertainment, you know. And they come and they meet Jesus, utter grace, who,

who probably called out some stuff in them as well. I'm like, oh, and you accept

me as well? Yeah. Um, yeah, just incredible grace. Um, thank you everyone for

being, uh, in, in the chat. We've got loads of, loads of messages coming

through. I just wanted to read one from, from Alicia. I think what's so

beautiful about this story— and lots of thanks too for Talk, Dave. I think

what's so beautiful about this story and this talk is that the Lord moves the

woman from the shame she's centered in herself to the larger view that centers

him.

That's beautiful.

And our new identity in him. And yeah, absolutely, Alicia. I think that's

fantastic. Um, it's the sense of seeing that wider perspective. She's come

probably with that kind of inner condemnation the whole time as she's drawing

water, reminding herself why she's there in the heat of the day, why it's such

hard work. Yeah, and that monologue, which again, I think, you know, many of us

can relate to, that just accusing all the time. And she just forgets it and

says, she forgets again, like the relationships with a village and she's like,

here's a guy that's given me a completely different perspective, a far wider

perspective, a more loving perspective and accepts me. And yeah, that's a

beautiful thing. So beautiful. Yeah, thanks again for all those comments. We've

kind of run out of time. Thank you so much, Dave. Please do read that story. It

is really rich, and it's just a beautiful picture of how Jesus relates to each

one of us. If you want to chat further, please do come to the live lounge. The

link is going to go up in the chat. Just dial in. It's about 10 minutes. Just

chat. We can kind of talk a little bit more directly than you can online. And,

you know, about anything to catch up on the week, have a little bit of community

on the back of this. Um, Mike, any, uh, any final thoughts for you? I've got a

whole list of notes I haven't been able to talk about, but—

well, I suppose the only, the only thing, the first thing I wrote down when Dave

started talking was, um, a line that somebody much wiser than me once said and

often gets rolled out, which is, he who knows you best loves you most. And I

just think You know, we all here, you know, we're all the same. We're all

sinners saved by his grace. We're all not good enough, um, and we are all seen.

All of it. We are all completely seen. We are completely known, and we are

completely loved. Um, and yeah, you are loved today. You are seen, known, and

loved.

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's beautiful. And the line that you said towards the end,

David, finished with is, uh, Jesus is not interested in superficial

relationships. Absolutely not interested. You know, he, he wants to get real.

Um, and, and just the challenge I've just written is, so just come as you are.

That, that's the offer. Yeah, that, that's what Jesus says. Just come as you

are. Don't, don't, don't get polished up. First, you know, so you're good

enough. Um, just come as you are, because Jesus is not interested in superficial

relationships. Thank you all very much. Thank you, Dave, so much for a really,

really rich, uh, talk this evening. Um, every Sunday we've got the live stream.

Please do join us again. If you're listening to this on catch-up in the week,

um, come, come and join us live. Um, add to the comments, add to part of the

discussion, and, uh, and please do, uh, join us in the live lounge, um, which

will start very soon after this end of the livestream. But meantime, thank you,

Mike. Thank you, Dave. Have a fantastic week, and, uh, God bless you. Come as

you are.