Why Jesus Tells Worried People to Go Bird Watching

Hello, that was a shorter intro than I was expecting.

Welcome tonight to Crowd Church.

It's great to be with you again today.

my name's Dan, and today I'm joined by wonderful Sharon.

Hello, who's talking, and she's here with me in the, in the

studio, and

the wonderful Ade, and he's in his personal studio in

North Wales. Hello, good evening folks.

How are you doing?

I'm doing okay, how are you?

Yes, yeah, good. Enjoying the fact that we've got a bit of

nice weather. We always talk about the weather, don't we?

But it's actually sunny, which is nice.

Ade, with your guitars in the background, I was just wondering whether

you're going to serenade us at any point this evening.

Be honest, I've not actually had the time to touch them lately

and I'm reckoning they are massively out of tune.

Okay, we'll have to wait for that one.

Yes, that's for another, another time, another day.

Yeah. so we had, Mike talking last week, and Sharon

do you want to give us a intro, or should we just—

I think just get into it, I think.

Yeah, yeah. this series has just been— it's been great to

just get a little more insights into Jesus's

his, his character and, and all the things that— like, it's Jesus

the Revolutionary— all the things that are countercultural, things that are different

to what was happening at the time.

So, I think without further ado, you're ready.

Yeah, I think I am.

I'll just, let me go.

Yeah, okay. So I want to start with a photo today, and

hopefully it will come up on the screen.

If my lovely assistant can help out.

Ah, okay, that's a slight issue then

because that was a little bit crucial to— okay, okay, something random

happening here. He said the bit that's not working is the— okay

okay, here's my photo.

Okay, so this is— well, you might be wondering what is this

vision of beauty in front of me?

Well, this handsome creature is a pantomime

horse that I made out of scrap material when I was a

kid. So, I was always making things, sewing, drawing, painting, knitting.

At other times, I'd spend whole weekends reading.

I grew trees from seeds in pots.

I had about 20 until my parents insisted that I plant them

out in a field, or on the edge of a field.

I played piano and a few other instruments.

I enjoyed sports, walking, learning languages.

Honestly, I had so many hobbies.

Anyone else like me with lots of interests, or are you more

focused?

Do, as I'm talking, do chuck your comments into the comment section

like, you know, reply to stuff that I'm saying or add your

questions. That would be great.

But anyway, out of all these hobbies, there are actually a couple

of hobbies that Jesus tells us to get into that didn't make

it onto my list.

Any guesses?

They are bird watching and flowers.

So, well, maybe he wasn't talking about them as hobbies as such

but he does tell us to look at these things.

And the question is, why?

In just a moment, we'll read to find out the answer.

But first, a bit of context, because today's passage begins with Jesus

saying, "That is why I tell you," or some translations will say

'therefore.' And I've been told that if you see the word 'therefore,'

you need to see what it's there for.

Context matters, right? So the teaching of Jesus we're about to look

at today comes from what's called the Sermon on the Mount.

It's found in chapters 5 to 7 of the Book of Matthew

with a shorter version in Luke.

And in these chapters, Jesus paints a picture of what life looks

like when we live rightly with God and one another.— it's almost

like a manifesto for life.

So if you were in charge of your country, or even just

your workplace, what kind of culture would you create?

How would you want people to treat each other?

Well, in these chapters, Jesus lays out his vision.

Within that, there are 4 short sections about money and possessions, and

today we're going to look at the 4th of these.

The first asks, if the treasure, is the treasure we're storing

up, is it purely physical, or is it something more lasting?

It gets at that pull we all feel either to keep buying

more stuff or to worry because we don't have enough.

That was true in Jesus' time, and it's perhaps even more true

now with all the advertising around us.

I mean, some things we own are essential, aren't they?

Some things make life easier or more enjoyable.

Some even give us a sense of identity or security.

But Jesus reminds us that these things don't last.

They can be lost through damage or theft or just life-changing unexpectedly.

Now, he also mentions moths, which, as someone with a liking for

natural fibers, I can relate to this only too well.

The second is a riddle about two types of eye, a healthy

eye and an unhealthy eye, and it's looking at stinginess versus generosity.

Don't have time to go into that now.

A third is about how money can end up controlling us

whether that's because we don't have enough or we have too much.

So let's read the fourth teaching on money within Jesus' Manifesto and

see why Jesus is telling us to take up bird watching and

the study of flowers.

How can these things help us?

How are they relevant to the vision of life that Jesus has

in mind? So Matthew 6:25 onwards say That is why I tell

Matthew 6:25

you not to worry about everyday life

whether you have enough food and drink or enough clothes to wear.

Isn't life more than food and your body more than clothing?

Look at the birds.

They don't plant or harvest or store food in barns, for your

Heavenly Father feeds them.

And aren't you far more valuable to him than they?

Can all your worries add a single moment to your life?

And why do you worry about clothing?

Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow.

They don't work or make their clothing, yet Solomon in all his

glory was not dressed as beautifully as they are.

And if God cares so wonderfully for wildflowers that are here today

and thrown into the fire tomorrow, he will certainly care for you.

Why do you have so little faith?

So Jesus tells us to look at the birds and the flowers.

Why? Because when we do, we start to see something of God's

character. It's part of an antidote to worry.

And what do we see?

We see a God who is generous and cares for what he's

made. He's created a world with enough provision for birds, animals, and

also for all of us.

Now, if I didn't do anything in my garden, within a few

years it would probably be a small woodland.

As it is, I'm constantly pulling up, sycamore and hazel saplings

to stop them taking over.

Things grow everywhere, often where I didn't plant them, because there's such

an abundance of seeds, and all of that becomes food and shelter

for birds and other creatures.

So that's the birds.

What about the flowers?

Now, I've always loved flowers, and when my kids were little, I'd

often stop them as we were walking along to say, "Stop and

'Look at the pretty flowers.' And now they say it back to

me, probably more to humor me, if I'm honest.

But flowers really are beautiful.

Again, they speak of a God who doesn't skimp.

He could have just made them functional

but instead he put such beauty and detail and a lot of

care into their creation.

So how does this help us exactly?

Jesus is inviting us to look at the evidence around us in

nature for God's generosity and love towards us, to help us with

our daily lives, to help shift our thinking and focus from the

things that we worry about to something far better, to shift our

thinking from where we think we can get our needs met to

the one who is the ultimate source of fulfilling our needs.

Sometimes our emotions or our circumstances would lead us to think that

God doesn't care Have you ever felt like that, that God

isn't interested? I know I have.

And, and sometimes we can have circumstances in life that can

make us question if God really loves us, or if he does

love us, is he actually powerful enough to do anything about it?

Jesus encourages us that when we look at the birds and the

flowers, we can see concrete evidence that he does care and that

he's powerful. He's the Creator who provides generously for his creatures.

Whatever the reason for our circumstances, it's not that God doesn't care.

The passage we read before mentions the word worry, and the Greek

word translated as worry is the verb merimnao.

Not sure my pronunciation

but anyway, this word appears 19 times in the New Testament, and

it's sometimes translated as worry, sometimes as be anxious, and sometimes as

be concerned., and it's used in both a positive and a negative

way. It can be an unhealthy concern or focus on the wrong

things, or it can be a healthy and godly concern on the

right things. So the scripture we've just read says not to be

concerned about food and clothes.

On the other hand, 1 Corinthians 12:26 says we should be concerned

1 Corinthians 12:26

about each other.

The next part of our reading today is this: So don't worry

merimnao, about these things, saying, what will we eat, what will we

drink, and what will we wear?

These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers, but your heavenly Father already

knows all your needs.

Jesus is saying that those who don't know God can be overly

focused on material concerns.

And to be honest, I think those of us who do know

God can also be like that.

But these things consume their thoughts because they don't look to God.

They have to rely entirely on their own efforts for their sense

of security, sense of identity.

And that can lead to living in a state of anxious striving

endlessly chasing material security.

But to those who have accepted his invitation to be part of

his family, he's a loving father who wants to give good things

to his children.

So where should our focus be?

Jesus goes on to say, seek the kingdom of God above all

else and live righteous— righteously, and he will give you everything you

need.

So what is God's kingdom and how do we seek it?

And what does it mean to live righteously?

A kingdom is simply a place where a king rules.

Now, we do have a king in the UK, but the way

our monarchy works isn't really a great picture of God's kingdom, because

here the king reigns but he doesn't really rule, whereas in God's

kingdom he both reigns and rules.

He decides what's right and wrong based on his good character.

So if we want to be part of his kingdom, it means

submitting to him, which may not be a popular concept right now.

It's not about picking and choosing the bits we like, but trusting

his way in every area of life.

It means shifting our focus from trying to meet all our own

needs and instead trusting him as the one who provides

because the messages we hear in the world are very different.

The world says, 'Buy more so you'll feel more secure.' Jesus says

'That feeling of security won't last.

Things can be taken away.

Look to your Father instead.' The world says, 'Be someone, get more

followers, climb higher.' God says, 'You're already someone.

You already have value.

You don't need to climb the ladder to prove that, but you

can use your position to serve others.' The world says, 'Look after

number one, hold on to what you have.' But we've all seen

where that leads, haven't we?

Anyone remember, the toilet roll situation during COVID where there

wasn't any? God says, 'Be generous.

What you have isn't just for you, it's for others too.' His

promise is that when we live this way, when we put him

first in all areas of our life, he gives us what we

really need. Having needs isn't the issue, it's how we try to

meet them and where our attention is.

And living righteously simply means living right with God and right with

people.

So what does this look like in real life?

Seeking God's kingdom, living right with him and with others, and trusting

him with what we need.

There are so many examples that I could give, but I've got

a, a couple from one end of the spectrum And then

one from the other end of the spectrum.

So, my friend Sue and her family have had years where money

has been really tight.

She's had to watch every penny, and even then sometimes there just

hasn't been enough. Again and again they found themselves praying to God

to provide, and she tells about one time when she was food

shopping, picking items with the yellow stickers, you know, the like reduced

ones

And she got to the self-service checkout and she just happened to

turn to the woman next to her, a complete stranger, and said

'This is such a blessing.' And the woman asked why, and Sue

said, 'God's really provided.

I've got so much more for my money with these yellow stickers.'

That's kind of like seeing God's provision in everything, isn't it?

Well, the woman replied, 'Well, this is going to be an extra

blessing. I'm going to pay for your shopping.' She said, "I'm a

Christian too," and right there in the shop, they gave each other

a big hug, complete strangers.

Brilliant. So another time when Sue's mother-in-law died, they needed to travel

to the Isle of Wight where she'd been living and stay a

couple of nights in a hotel and contribute to the funeral.

So it was such a big financial strain.

So friends helped, of course, but then out of the blue, a

man who had once lodged with them briefly and knew nothing about

their situation sent them £100.

He said that he'd simply felt God prompt him to do it.

It's funny how many coincidences happen when we pray, isn't it?

Now, I'm not saying that Christians are the only ones who are

generous. I know many, people who don't have any faith or

a different faith who are really generous.

But I believe that when we are generous, whoever we are, that

we're reflecting something of God's own heart.

At the other end of the spectrum, we've got a friend

who's called Mark Mitchell, and he runs the Mitchell Group, which

is a really successful car business.

So financially, he's doing really well.

Now, a lot of companies expect long hours, put profits first, and

don't really look after their staff.

Their focus is on the bottom line, and it often leads to

stress

high staff turnover, and sometimes questionable decisions which are ethically

a bit dodgy. But Mark's approach is different.

He's trying to run his business in line with God's values

bringing God's kingdom here on earth, just like the Lord's Prayer says.

He'd be the first one to say he doesn't get it right

all the time, but his aim is clear.

For example, the business closes on Sundays, one of the busiest days

for car viewings, because he believes in keeping a day of rest

like keeping the Sabbath holy, as the Bible would say.

It means his staff can be off at the same time as

their families.

And a few years ago, they even shut down a major part

of their business because of contract change

would have required Sunday trading.

So, from a purely, purely financial point of view, that really doesn't

make sense. But for Mark, it wasn't just about money.

It was about putting God first and trusting him to provide.

And there's a verse he really likes in 1 Samuel that says

"Those who honor me, I will honor." And you can also see

something of that in the way that he runs the business.

Last year, out of 106 staff, only 2 part-time employees left.

Left when the industry average is closer to 30 to 40%.

So why, why do they stay?

It's because people aren't just employees to him.

He's changed their name actually from employees to colleagues because the whole

mindset changes the way he thinks about people, and he sees them

as people made in God's image, and he treats them that way.

And as a company, they support over 50 charities, not just for

appearance but out of a genuine care for other people.

So how would life look different if you really believe that God

loves you and wants you to be generous, wants to be generous

towards you? I like to ask myself this question: how would life

look if you made living right with God and other people your

main focus, partnering with God in all areas of your life, doing

things his way? Maybe you already do that.

It'd be great to hear how you put this into practice in

your life as like an encouragement to the rest of us.

But just all this, sounds a bit like I'm saying, do

this and life will be easy.

Listen to how Jesus finishes this little section of teaching.

He says, therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry

about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Jesus is really real with us.

Life won't be trouble-free.

In fact, he's promising that we will have trouble.

Not the particular promise that we like to take hold of, but

he does give us a way to handle it, and that is

focus on today. Give God what's going on today.

And that's something I found really helpful last year during my cancer

journey. Instead of getting overwhelmed by everything ahead, it became about what's

in front of me today.

What has the doctor said to me, to me today that I'm

struggling with? I talk to God about that, be honest how I'm

feeling, pray it through, and then choose to trust him with what

comes next. And you know what, it really freed me up just

to actually be able to enjoy the day that I was in.

Thinking, okay, what good things do I actually have today?

What can I be thankful for today?

Without letting what could maybe possibly happen tomorrow overshadow it.

So really

this is the invitation to shift our focus away from trying to

carry everything ourselves and towards living closely with our generous, loving Father.

As we put him first and walk in his ways, we can

trust him to provide not just for our physical needs, but for

the deeper things too— for peace, security, purpose, and a sense of

being held.

Okay, I've finished, so I'm going to hand back to Dan, although

I do have another bit of paper with lots of bits I

couldn't fit on on that.

Oh, okay. That's— I love that, Sharon.

Brilliant talk. I think, you might have heard listen to the

same podcast with Mark Mitchell.

Yeah, if you want to hear more about Mark, he's on

the Inspired podcast, a fairly recent one.

So he talks a lot more, he goes into a lot more

detail about other different ways he brings— yeah, God into his business.

Yeah, it's brilliant. having no HR department was like countercultural, wasn't

it? ah, that— where, where to start?

And there's lots of comments, and I've written some comments, I

think first, Ade, what— oh, someone got a text.

Ade, what things first sort of jumped out

to you?

I think the basics, you know, just ask, put it in God's

hands, you know, like in Matthew 7 where it says, ask and

it will be given to you, seek and you will find, and

knock and the door will be opened unto you.

Yeah, I think it's important to remember that in fact Matthew 7:7

Matthew 7:7

gives you like 3 levels of escalation.

Some things we'll ask for and there'll be an answer pretty much

right away. Other things we're going to have to seek and it's

going to take time and patience and we'll get there.

And then some things again, I'm just going to take really against

the odds, kind of banging on that door.

Let's, you know, let's keep persevering here.

But ultimately those who ask will be answered, those who seek will

find, and those who knock, the door will be opened unto them.

And, it's just having that faith and perseverance at our end

because we don't always get the answer right away, but they are

coming at some point.

Yeah, I love how, obviously Jesus brought it out

in, in this sermon, but then you brought out as well that

the reflecting on creation.

and there's been some comments on there.

Alicia's said how we sometimes can forget the first artist, Jesus

being that first art— or God being that first artist— that if

you do just look at— it sounds funny, doesn't it?

Oh, you know, smell the flowers, look at the flowers.

But they didn't have to have that detail.

It doesn't have to be that beauty, but but there is.

And I, I do love that.

It does make me think

oh man, God, yeah, if you do care about these things that

are literally just for, for days— some insects and creatures are like

hours, aren't they? How much more?

I was talking to a friend yesterday about this subject of beauty.

Well, it came up actually, I didn't mention this particularly, and she

said how even as a child she looked at beauty and it

made her think, oh, there must be a God.

And that made her want to seek God.

Yeah, I found that really in— yeah, it's interesting.

Yeah, I was talking to a friend this week about, if

you watch sort of nature programs, they often talk about that, that's

awesome, that's all, and yet miss the awesome, awesome Creator.

And I just think, oh, you're using that word without knowing

you know, sort of making it so small.

And we can, we can make it small, can't we, and realize

that

he's, he's provided that.

And, and I love how it just leads on to, well, if

he's doing that— and it's not a

it's not an— I've sometimes read the verse that says, why

do you have so little faith, at the end of it, as

a bit of an admonishment.

Yeah, why do you have so little faith?

Yeah, yeah. But when you were saying it then, it just felt

a bit more like 'Look at all those things.

Why, why do you have so little faith if you can see

that?' Reflecting back on it.

Yeah, yeah, different emphasis.

Yeah, yeah. Just one— I, I'm aware we need to bring Ade

but, just before that, you mentioned the word awe.

So Matt reminded me before that a few weeks ago, Will mentioned

something called awe walks, where you go out walking with the specific

intention of looking for things that make you go, yeah, yeah, I

can't remember how he worded it.

And actually there's a study done that shows the benefits of doing

that, like for our mental and physical health.

Yeah, anyway, yeah, before I bring

in some of these, comments, Ade, is there anything that you

want to sort of share regarding that, regarding sort of the awe

and the things we've been talking about, this creation?

Yeah, so as you know, I'm a scientist.

So when I look at this, I guess through a data-driven mindset

when I think about what's the greatest thing that us humans have

invented or done, and maybe you'll say, oh, really snazzy robots or

AI or whatever. And you look at that in all of its

ever so modest glory in comparison to the complexity of a human

being. And you just kind of think, well, there's, you know, the

relationship between the creator and the created.

Yeah. You know, the creator is much more advanced and complex and

all the rest of it.

So you look at the greatest thing we've done in comparison to

us and think, well, you know, we're nowhere near to being able

to create anything like us.

So if I'm going to kind of kick that upstairs and think

wow, just how much more amazing, you know, is God and

how much more complex and powerful and awesome.

And bearing in mind the coolest thing we've done is like, you

know, after thousands of years of research and all the rest of

it, you know, God made us first time.

Yeah, well, we'll have you too, you know, pop Adam, bang Eve.

And you know, it's like there was no research and development and

preparation. It was just he spoke and it was done.

Yeah, yeah. And it reflected— I love that sometimes, that his image—

we're a fraction of that image, aren't they?

When we look at creation, it's not just a beautiful thing, it's

a reflection of his, his beauty as well.

Yeah, yeah. let's, let's get into some of these comments.

so yeah, we're saying before that Alicia said She loves some

of these beautiful anecdotes that you brought across and

how

the early church would have been in that same situation.

So you talked about Sue and people just— that lady just saying

'Oh, I want to bless you.' Yeah.

And I think there must have been a lot of that then.

When we do—

I think sometimes perhaps in our modern life we have to be

a bit more intentional

than— I know where this is true— than, than they did back

then, because they lived in such close community.

I feel that you could— needs were a bit more obvious, whereas

our needs are still like that.

Yeah, yeah, we sort of hide our needs away, don't we?

We're very isolated, and sometimes it has to be a bit more

intentional. It has to be, let me pay for your shopping, rather

than just you

You both walk in to get your groceries together, you know?

Yeah. And as I was thinking about these things, it's like, because

he says if you focus on doing things his way, that you

get your needs met.

And as I've been thinking about these over the weeks, I think

it works on kind of two sort of levels.

One of them is if everybody is being generous and sharing what

they've got, of course, everyone's going to have their needs met, aren't

they? It's only by, because we are selfish or we hoard or

that there's enough for everybody.

The only reason that— well, the main reason that not everyone has

enough is because of the inequalities caused by people.

So there's that one sense, if we just follow his teaching, we

get our needs met.

But also, it's like we don't live in a world where that

happens all the time, and God is able to provide those miracles

in those situations as well.

not that again, not that he always does.

Sometimes we're, you know, we'd like a miracle and we don't get

one. Yeah. but yeah, I just think it works on two

levels. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alicia has also said, I think that partnering with God, although

I do it quite imperfectly, helps me to A, feel less lonely

in my struggles, and B, refocus on what's important, and C, give

me— give more generously and cheerfully.

Yeah.

Yeah, I am.

Yeah, if our focus is, is on these things, it does—

it changes. If our inward focus is on God and his creation

he's going to provide, then it helps our outward actions as well

doesn't it? Yeah, it does.

Yeah. One of the things that, Mike mentioned last week as

well was this whole thing about that Jewish literature was meant to

be meditated on. So obviously we can focus on creation and look

at that, but also, the scriptures themselves are meant to be

meditated on. And in each of Jesus' teachings, he'll pick up on

one specific point, but then if you put them all together, you

get a

but like, if you just focus on one point, it can

be a bit like 'But hang on a minute, what about this

situation? And what about that?' But when you put them all together

you get this very rounded view, and then you kind of have

to mull them over, work it out.

It's like, 'Okay, how does that work?' But it's very much about

this continual thinking and chewing it over, discussing with people to get

the full depth of the truth.

I, I was talking to someone yesterday who's actually— he's, he's

been on Crowd and he's done a talk about mental health, a

guy called Phil Watson that we both know.

And we were talking about, hobbies, or what we'd call now

sometimes called mindfulness, you know.

Yeah. And you can sort of link the two together.

And I just wondered how people's hobbies or mindfulness, is it

This just came to me.

Is it something that you do to distract yourself from life, or

is it something that you do to

help your mind then focus on other things, like looking at

wildflowers, looking at

sort of wildlife?

I suppose you can do both things.

You could just get so in depth with it that you— it

all it is is a distraction.

But you can look at it as well, like Jesus says in

those, in the, those words, that it's, it's, it's mindful in

terms of something to focus your time on, but it's also mindful

in that it directs your focus to Jesus.

Yeah, I just think, is, are the hobbies and the tasks that

we do

are they

How, how are they for you?

Are they helping you?

Are they mindful? Are they directing you to God, or are they

distracting? Yeah, perhaps that's— I always say these things, and it's not

me, you know, saying things that you— it's, it's like I need

to look at my tasks as well.

Yeah. Do they, do they help me to, to be mindful and

focus on— it's a good point— I'll focus on God.

I've got a question for you guys.

Ade could start maybe.

just wondering, so I've given a few examples from friends— from

yeah, from friends— about how they've put God first, like partnered

with him and bringing God's kingdom on earth, even when, like for

Mark, it could potentially have been quite costly for him.

Have you got any examples of where you've done that?

Or where God's provided for you.

yeah.

Oh, put me on the spot, why don't you?

You've had a whole talk to think about this.

I, so I work for a multinational, and, in fact

I've worked for multinationals for a long time, and, typically they're

very open to what people

think, but you've got to be very careful about what you say.

And as an example

where I work for now, every year we pick what charity shall

we, you know, give all this money we've been saving up for

to. In fact, the last multinational was the same, and it can

be any charity but not a religious one.

Of course, I've always, you know, as an ambassador from Compassion UK

I've always brought that to the table anyway and been knocked back

no, we can't do that, it's, you know, it's not religious.

But I've never shied away from speaking what

I'm thinking

biblically so, in context.

So I've never tried to go out of the way to insert

my faith into a conversation, but I've never shied away from it.

It certainly has

if anything, had people open up to me that I wouldn't have

expected because I've, you know, shown this side of in some ways

vulnerability, and not just on the whole corporate, you know, tick box

let's just, you know, do the same dance everyone else does because

that's what we do in the corporation.

That's what I've got being put on the spot.

Okay, well, I'll move over to Dan and then give you a

bit more chance to think.

Yeah, I was thinking about that one.

When I was, 16, I went straight from school and went

to work for, again, multinational Ford Motor Company.

Quite a, quite a big company.

and it was a, it was a great job, an apprenticeship.

And it's, the, like, the guy I started work with on

that day, still one of my best mates, he's still there.

4 years into it, I really felt I should leave and

go to uni. And, a few people came up to me

and just said— so there was two views.

There was one

you're nuts, you know, leaving this is a secure job, and that's

brave, you know, going.

And for me, it was just— I, I knew that's what

I should do. I had a peace about it.

And I was just thinking when, when Ade was talking

I knew it was God, but I'd seen that modeled by my

my parents. They, they lived in that way.

And I'm just thinking, for those of you, listening, have you

seen that, that modeled?

Is it— is this something very, very new to you to put

your faith in? So for me, I could see it in my

family, and that really helped me just to have that rest and

that peace. but I understand there's

potentially you, you, this is completely, this is a wacky thought that

you can have that, that rest.

and it's been, it, it's been great.

It's been hard. Like, I look back and think, I was, I

was again talking to Phil yesterday thinking, I could have, I could

be almost retired by now, have this amazing pension.

You know, it was a final salary pension, like a rare thing.

Well, they don't exist anymore.

Wouldn't have had the, you know, finished at 9 o'clock and finished

at 5 o'clock and wouldn't get any calls from customers.

Yeah. So it's definitely

you know, I do look back, but I can, I can put

trust in that I've had a great time.

The people I've met in what I do now and the things

I get to do is brilliant.

But I did have to have that, that peace to know this

was what I should do.

Yeah. Any regrets? Sometimes.

Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes there are, you know.

The beginning of this year was the hardest time I've had at

business, you know. It was, it was like, God, this is hard.

I need you to provide.

And, yeah, he, he has provided and he is providing.

but it's been hard.

Yeah. Should we see if Ade's got any more thoughts?

Now he's had time to think.

Anything else, Ade? Oh yeah.

I'm going to copy Dan actually.

Similar move. After I graduated from uni with degrees in

engineering and science, I went to work in research in a university

in Ireland and absolutely loved what I did.

It was really interesting.

It was developing. It was going places.

But in my heart, I just, I always knew that Ireland wasn't

my home. Now, I moved there when I was 5, all of

my family moved back, and I kind of figured I'd stick around.

And whenever I came to the UK, I just had this peace

that I never had when I was in Ireland.

And so it was something for a long time I, you know

I prayed about and kept an eye for opportunities, but randomly At

the same time, I

became fascinated in how the human body

worked.

Nothing to do with the engineering or the science I was involved

in. I started, basically I got really into climbing.

I started training to compete in climbing

and then read textbooks on physiology and ended up sitting exams to

become a strength coach and trainer and all this kind of stuff.

But in the midst of it

and I could feel, you know, all these different directions, I could

feel the research trying to pulling me in more and get the

university to fund my my further master's and PhD and all that

kind of stuff.

But there was something in me that just said no, even though

this is kind of like, kind of, you know, your ideal dream

thing. And I stuck to my guns, and before I knew it

an opportunity opened to actually move to North Wales.

I ended up winning a scholarship which had a fully funded stipend

and all your fees paid to go to Bangor University.

And it's not long after that I met Sonya, my now wife

not in Wales, that's a different story.

And yeah

it's all of the things that have happened after that that have

brought me to where I am now.

And I mean, I never imagined I would be involved

in an online church back then, with some things as innovative as

Crowd Church.. But, if I hadn't taken that step, you know

that, you know, that and many other things I've been involved in

over the years, would never have happened.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've got quite a few examples.

Yeah, go on. But one that comes— it's one of the bigger

ones that come to mind, I think.

One was when I was pregnant with our first child and

I was about to give up work, and I'd always wanted to

be a full-time mom if I ever did have kids.

I know that's not what everyone wants to do, that's fine

but that's what we'd— and we felt that that was the right

thing to do as well.

We also had two lodgers at the time, but we needed one

of their rooms. So we'd said to them, look, one of you

can stay, but one of you is gonna have to go.

And they decided they'd both go, possibly didn't want a screaming baby

in the night in their ears.

so we were losing my income and the income from the

lodgers And then Matt's company got taken over by, somebody else

and it just became really difficult.

We weren't sure from one day to the next whether he was

going to be promoted or fired, and it kept changing and swinging.

It was just really difficult.

so there was this possibility of losing all of our income

as well. But, and it was, I mean, it was especially hard

for Matt because he was having to go into work and it

was just crazy there and all these things were happening, whereas

I was a bit more removed from it.

But even in all of that, there was just this sense of

excitement and a bit of peace, like, okay, all of our current

income is possibly going to just disappear.

But we just had this sense God was going to do something.

And then

we unexpectedly got given loads of money by a friend who I

think probably still wants to remain anonymous, which— it was completely out

of the blue.

And, that allowed Matt to resign from that company and then

just work on his own company for the first year.

Didn't get paid for quite a while, I can't remember how long.

But again, that just felt very much like this is God's provision

in this situation. It's like how he just lines the pieces up

for you.

yeah, I like that word you said there, exciting.

It is, isn't it?

Like Following Jesus is, it's, it's hard, but there's times like that

where there is that, there's that peace.

But I do think there's that excitement as well, that because if

you get to know him and you get to know how big

he is and what he can do, you can go, oh, what's

what's he got for me if this is where things are going?

Yeah, yeah. But I, I think, like I said at the end

it definitely there is that excitement element, but there's also that actually

sometimes things can be really— yes, yeah, really tough.

Yeah, in the middle of it.

And actually sometimes life can be made worse by following Jesus.

In many ways it makes life better, like from that internal— yeah—

sense of peace. But I guess I'm thinking of the extremes now

like the people who, to— when they decide to follow Jesus, actually

get ostracized from their families and

worse for some. Yeah, but yeah, there's all this stuff in the

mix. Yeah, but ultimately God is good and he's generous.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, Ellis has said it can be

difficult when you think you're behind or not where you should be

but it's calming to know that God is in charge and we

can trust in him.

Yeah, again, I was talking with— this conversation I had with Phil

yesterday is perfect for this talk— how

the structure that we have with education and stuff is very rigid

isn't it? It's very like, you must be at this point by

this year, you must be at this point.

Doesn't have to be that way.

And I think that does help to know that you can just

put our trust in, in trusting God that something might take a

bit, a bit longer.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think it as well, it's not just— although the, these verses

are talking about physical provision, I don't think it's just about that

either. Like, I go through these cycles of, being really happy

with what I'm doing, and then these little niggles can just get

in, of being like, oh, other people my age are CEOs

of companies and doing this, that, and the other, and what am

I doing? I know maybe I should go and study and get

these

get like more qualifications or— but when I start thinking like

that, it's actually all about making myself look better.

And then it's like when I kind of get a hold of

myself and go, hang on, what are you doing?

Like, re— readjust your focus here.

Who does God say you are?

When I start living out of who God says I am, it

takes off that pressure to have to try and be something big

and shiny. And it means I can just go, okay, God's given

me these gifts to do

so what things, what things can I study that are going to

help me do this better so I can serve other people?

And it's just a very different— it's just that slight, that shift

in focus is really releasing.

Yeah. So it's like having that, that peace, that sense of identity

that sense of security that comes from knowing Jesus.

Can just shift all of the things that you do.

And yeah, yeah, you— I wrote it down here, you said in

your talk, you're already someone.

Yeah, yeah. God says you're already someone, and the, the things you

buy and the things you do aren't necessarily your identity.

Yeah, you're someone before all that, over and above, above all that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Any more thoughts from you, Ade?

Yeah, just going back probably 5 minutes now, I just couldn't help

but think of James 1:2

James 1:2

"Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials

of many kinds, because you know that testing of your faith produces

perseverance." I don't like trials.

I don't really kind of go, "Yay, trials." Me neither.

I see the merit.

I look back and I see how I've grown.

And if I'm honest with myself, yeah, okay, it probably was worth

it.

But sufferings, and I say what we're going through right now is

one of those

but there's a greater plan to it.

You know, we're all going to go through suffering at some point.

You know, following Jesus is not a get-out-of-jail-free card to suffering.

If anything, it invites it because you put a big target on

your back for Satan to go and whack, play whack-a-mole with.

But it changes you if you let it.

If you just accept the situation you're in, hand it over to

God, and not just kick and writhe against it, which, you know

let's face it, we all do from time to time.

But it produces perseverance, it produces character and depth that we would

not have gotten. It produces strength that we wouldn't have if we

hadn't gone through this and if our faith hadn't been tested.

We just don't see it at the time.

Yeah. In case there are people here who don't know your story

are you happy to

give a little gist of what's going on at the minute?

sure. So, my wife

has severe ME, and this means that she

it's kind of a hard one to describe, but if you

imagine never ever having any energy, and whenever you try and do

something, you just want to collapse but you probably can't even do

it anyway because you're that feeble.

And over the last couple of years, I've watched, literally watched her

waste away and, you know, watched her arms and legs look more

like that of someone probably 30, 40 years older than her as

she's not been able to move.

And for a long time, I, you know, I just asked God

why? You know, you've healed her in the past.

You miraculously healed her back like 10 years ago.

That was amazing. But why for this?

And I still haven't got an answer to that.

But I see how, and it's funny because the number of times

people in the midweek community group tell us that we're, you know

they find this, you know, completely inspiring what we do, how we

just get on with it.

I'm thinking, don't feel inspiring at all.

Neither of us do.

But we get a glimpse into the fact that yes, what we're

going through is horrendous

but those around us are drawing strength from it

and inspiration and helping them, you know, view their situations and even

kind of get through some of the things they're getting through.

I, you know, I genuinely hope to God that my wife is

healed and that this is a season and not a life sentence.

But, you know, God heals in his grace and there's no guarantee

he will. There are days when I think, how the heck am

I going to be juggle being a full-time carer?

I'm working full-time till I retire.

You know, I'm in my 40s now and it's hard going.

What about 50s and 60s?

But I just cast that into the future.

That's not today's problem.

So far, God has met all of our needs, not all of

our wants, because we want to see her healed, but we get

through each day. We manage with what we have, and we, we

try to find the happiness in the, in the small space

that is our lives in comparison to before.

Before, we were very active people.

We were big into outdoor sports, we ran a

strength coaching business part-time, we competed in weightlifting, we were very active

in church with Christian charities, with music, all of that, that's all

that's gone.

And we try to quite often just find solace in going out

into nature. And believe it or not, I actually started bird watching

you know, got some binoculars.

We live near RSPB and it just happens to be, it's mostly

wheelchair friendly, so it's somewhere beautiful.

It's in nature, it's quiet.

And after going there a couple of times, I thought I should

probably get some binoculars so we can actually see these birds.

And I couldn't tell you what on earth they are, but there's

something weirdly relaxing about watching birds.

Now this coming from someone who would rather take a polystyrene board

out in a storm and try and ride some waves, you know

it's

I'm surprising myself with, with this, but, yeah, there is something

calming about it. Wow, it's Jesus' top recommendation.

So there you go.

I've got another question for you actually, Ade, if we've got time.

Just— yeah, it's not strictly to do with this, talk, but

I think it's one that's really relevant.

So Ade, you were talking about all this stuff that you're going

through and have been going through for ages

and we're talking about this God of love, a God who's

powerful, who could— who has healed Sonya in the past, could do

it again.

Like, many people at that point would have turned their backs on

God and gone, I'm out, do you know what I mean?

What keeps you going with God even though you know he could

heal but he hasn't?

I know there's no guarantees.

I know he does it in his grace.

I know in Genesis he handed over this planet to us and

said, "Right, you guys have dominion over this.

I'm staying out." I also think

I mean, holding on to my faith is one thing that's helped

me get through this.

And do you know what?

It makes me a better person.

So even if I've got this completely wrong and when I die

there's nothing

or it's a mega party, everyone's invited, it's like spring break.

But if I'm wrong and, you know, there is no God, I've

been a nicer person in this life, and I have benefited from

that in the relationships I've been able to have with people, as

in people like nice people and not not nice people.

I've had a peace that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

So worst case scenario, you know what, this has actually helped with

my existence on Earth right now.

However, the other side of it, and I am right, well, in

addition to all of this, I still know there's something far, far

better and eternal after what we're going through now.

And no matter how horrendous it gets right now

this is a blink of an eye in comparison to infinity and

beyond.

Great. Yeah.

well, thanks for that, Ade.

we're, we're going to finish very soon.

I think Matt's going to put the live lounge details up

so if they're in the comments, so if you want to join

us, afterwards for, for live lounge, just a bit more informal

chat, then, then please do.

I just want to finish with, with this from Alicia that

we, we were talking about, but

'Who does God say you are?' She says it's such a powerful

perspective-giving question. I just want to put that out there.

Who, who do you think God says you are?

I mean, I would say

you know, you're loved, you're precious, you're an amazing creation.

But if you want to get to know this Jesus, you want

to get to know who he thinks you are, how much he

loves you, then just put it in the comments, get in touch

with Crowd we'd love to tie him up.

This is why we do it.

This is why we do it, because we have a glimpse of

what we think he is to us, and we want to share

that glimpse with you.

Yeah. Is there anything else you want to— No, no, that's a

great point to end on, I think.

Well, thank you very much for tuning in, and we will see

you in Live Lounge.

If not, we'll see you next week.

Yeah, happy last.