Stop Shrinking to Fit In

Good evening everybody and welcome to Crowd Church on this beautiful and

slightly cooler Sunday evening, which is a relief for me. Um, how are you all?

It's great to have you on the live stream. Um, it's great to have you on

catch-up if that is how you're watching it. Little intro if you've not

encountered Crowd Church before. It is a church, and as you see, we are online.

And each Sunday night we have a livestream where we will have a talk and we will

unpack it in Conversation Street. And this is very much trying to build a

community, so we really want your participation. This is not like something

you're just watching. Please do, if you're on the livestream, put your questions

in the chat and we will talk about them afterwards. We welcome your questions

throughout the week about anything you have seen on Crowd. This weekend we've

had the amazing privilege of meeting some of those that have engaged with Crowd

over the months. And a number of people have come through, have found Crowd

either on the livestream or joined the alpha that we have just run. And it's

just a really good picture of how Crowd should work. So people with no— yeah,

completely unconnected to each other, all around the country, interested in

finding out more about Christianity and Jesus, started an Alpha course, and many

of those have decided then to follow Jesus and get baptized. And so this weekend

we did an in-person Crowd event with the wonderful Sharon Edmundson and Matt

Edmundson.

Hi everybody.

Who are with me this evening, absolutely delighted, because it's not like we've

spent lots of quality time together the last 48 hours. And we, we went down to

Dorset and we gathered the Crowd community together and did some incredible

baptisms, uh, on the beach, um, which was an awful lot of fun. And so we try to

build community is what the message is. This is the online bit, but please

engage. And, yeah, Sharon, what were your real take-homes from this weekend?

Oh, there's so many fantastic things about this weekend. I think I really love

the fact that we've taken what was previously, like weeks ago, a group of

strangers, but they've all got in common that they were seeking God, and God's

met with them in various ways and begun changing their lives. And this group has

become, like, really well connected now. And I think so, just the different

ages, different people from different parts of the country, but all like just

hearing their stories of what God's done has just been incredible, I think.

Yeah, yeah, it has been amazing. What about you, Matt?

Oh, I loved it. I love the fact I didn't get sunburnt. In fact, you can see, uh,

behind me, thanks to modern technology, the beautiful people who all got

baptized, slightly blurred out. Um, but yeah, what a weekend. I mean Doing

baptisms on the beach is always fun, right? And just meeting some really

phenomenal people, making some new friends, um, and just having a great old time

and not getting sunburnt.

Well done.

Uh, and we played foursquare, uh, which we did.

We, we, we just hung out on the beach. We did, we did baptisms. It was an

absolute packed beach down in Dorset. Some friends and family came along to be

part of it, and then we, we hung out on the beach and we had a great, great

great day. And one of those getting baptized said, 'It's like you're my family,'

and that was just such a beautiful comment about that whole journey that this

group has come along. So, you know, if you like the sound of that, please do

engage with all the stuff that we've got online. There's loads and loads of

resources on Crowd Church, and please say hi in the chat. Say good evening.

We'll follow this with a live lounge where we'll talk a little bit further. Um,

and I'm just being passed. Okay, who've we got? So we've got, uh, we've got

Sonia. Hello, hello. And Kat and Ade and Richard. Richard Knight. Hello, lovely

to see you.

We've also got these ones as well.

You can read those.

It's a complicated setup.

It is a complicated setup because we stream both horizontal and portrait. And so

watching on Portrait, we've got Warren, uh, Clove U2B, uh, hi, uh, Alicia,

hello, and Miss Samantha. Good evening to you guys, a very warm welcome to you.

Thanks for joining us on the live stream. Oh, Ellis is now in the comments as

well, I've seen that. Hi, Ellis.

So great, this evening we are carrying on our Jesus the Revolutionary series,

which has been Fantastic. It's been a look at Jesus challenging stereotypes and

how Jesus is actually really quite radical. And tonight, as you have seen, we

have the wonderful Matthew Edmundson to bring us the next installment. So as

he's talking, make notes, put your questions in the chat, and we will pick up—

Sharon and I will pick up afterwards with some conversation around it. So Matt,

welcome again, and looking forward to hearing you.

Wow, you say that.

We've just spent, we've just spent 7 hours together in a van.

We're going to go have a lie down now. So let me also— I just noticed here Sudan

says hi from India in the comments. So a very warm welcome to you wherever you

are in the world. It's great to have you with us. So as Will said, we are

carrying on our conversation about Jesus the Revolutionary, and I want to start

by telling you a story. Okay, so I'm going to tell you a story where I came

across an elderly man. And he looked for all intents and purposes, like he was

having a heart attack. So the color had drained out of him, out of his face, he

was clammy. And he was, you know, he was gulping for air, and his wife was like

properly frightened. So you knew that something was going on, right? And I saw

all of this in about half a second as I was walking past. But the crazy thing

was, I kept walking straight past him. I was in London. I was on the

Underground. I was getting on one of those really long escalators that we have

in the London Underground. It was hardly moving. I mean, the escalator was

moving, but the people weren't really going up it. And I saw the problem about

halfway up. Was this elderly couple with a bunch of suitcases going up a step at

a time and not moving very fast. And so this queue of people moaning behind them

grew as they were being delayed by a few seconds, which, as we all know, is one

of the big cardinal big city sins, isn't it? And so one by one, they started to

barge past this couple and they were climbing over the suitcases. And because

Everyone's doing it. Everyone does it. So by the time I get to the top of this

escalator, the couple are actually off. They're standing to the side. They'd

made it to the top. And a whole river of people just kept walking past them,

including me. And what I cannot dress up, right, is the fact that I have had

over the years some medical training. I hasten to use the word some. But I knew,

right? I didn't guess. I knew what I was looking at, and I walked past. Why did

I walk past? I walked past because everybody else was walking past. Now, the

irony of this was at the time I was researching a story from the 1960s out of

New York, and there was a young woman called Kitty. And Kitty was attacked and

killed in the streets whilst, according to the newspapers, which aren't the most

accurate, of reportings. But according to the newspapers, a crowd heard what

happened, but nobody came to help her. And so at the time, across the papers,

New York was branded the unfriendliest city in the world. But the psychologists,

right, who dug into this discovered it wasn't that New Yorkers were cruel. It

was simply that we model our behavior on the people around us. So if nobody else

is stepping in, then you're probably not going to step in either, even if it

cuts clean across everything you believe. And there's a name for this in

psychology. It's called the bystander effect. And that was me on the escalator.

I walked past because everybody else was walking past. Maybe they knew something

that I didn't. Maybe someone had checked on them already and they were okay.

Maybe I was just imagining the whole thing. Maybe I was just a little bit worn

out from climbing the stairs. Maybe it wasn't real. It's the bystander effect

working in all its glory. I had all of the excuses going through and I kept

walking. But, you know, to make a long story short, uh, God did eventually get

through to me, um, because I knew what I had seen and I also understood the

bystander effect. So I had to turn around I had to get involved and do what no

one else was doing. But why did I do that? Why do we keep walking? Why do we

keep taking our cues from what everyone else is doing, even when everyone else

is wrong? And an interesting question to ask here is, what does it cost us when

we do? And because we are in this series called Jesus the Revolutionary, My

question is, what does Jesus have to say about it as well? And to spoil the

ending slightly, um, we're going to find out that Jesus does not call us at all

in any way to blend in. You and I are here to change the flavor of the room.

It's something that we're going to get into now. Most of the time, thank God,

it's not life and death. It's not a guy having a heart attack. It's usually the

group chats where someone forwards a meme and they're having a dig at you, you

know, at the very thing that you believe and you just hit the laughing emoji

because it's the easiest thing to do, right? Or maybe, I don't know, maybe it's

at work where everyone's talking about their weekend and you mention everything

except for the one thing that actually shaped your life because you don't want

to be that person, right? It's the same instinct. We read the room, we clock

what's expected of us, and we file off any of the bits of us that don't fit in

at that point, right? We learn this sort of conformity, I think, right from an

early age in the school playground, you know, where we learn to color in the

lines of school like everyone else. And it goes all the way through life.

Conformity is key. Say the right things, like the right things, but whatever you

do, do not make it weird, right? And it's good. I mean, it's not all a bad

thing. It's called fitting in. And I think we're all pretty good experts at

this, right? Brené Brown said it like this. She said, "If I get to be me, I

belong. But if I have to be like you, I fit in." Okay. But does it work? Does

fitting in actually work? Well, yes, it does. I mean, obviously, it does, at

least up to a point, right? Because society is built on conformity. It's built

on all of us fitting in. Fitting in feels safe. Nobody gets rejected for

agreeing. Nobody gets left out for going along with it. It's not all bad. We all

need to drive the same way, right, on the road. It really helps us as a society.

We need a set of rules to follow. But there is a cost to fitting in all of the

time. So take the idea, you would have heard of the word masking, this idea to

mask, something that we've all done, right? Where we mask how we think or feel

about something just to fit in. And the research here is actually really

sobering when we look at it, because the more we mask, The more anxious, the

more disconnected, the more lost you become, which is a modern way of

describing, I think, something Jesus said 2,000 years ago. And in the Gospels,

Jesus uses this analogy. It's from the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 5, verse 13,

Matthew 5:13

if you're reading along. Jesus said, "You are the salt of the earth." Okay, you

are the salt of the earth. And salt is a really, really interesting analogy for

Jesus here, because salt, when you think about it, has one job, and that's to

not be like everything else. The moment salt tastes like everything around it,

well, it's not really good salt anymore, is it? It's just a powder. And in fact,

Jesus talks about this in the next verse, verse 13. He says, because you are the

salt of the earth, and then he says, but if salt has has lost its saltiness— or

no, no, let me rephrase— if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be

restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled

under people's feet. That's kind of harsh, isn't it? So salt doesn't fit in.

Salt changes the food that it touches. It preserves and it's a flavor amplifier.

Okay. And here's something that I didn't know until studying this out for this

talk, right? The word Jesus uses when he talks about losing its saltiness is

moranthē. Now, I appreciate my Greek pronunciation is a bit pants. Moranthē.

Jesus is making a pun here because this is the root word of our word moron.

Okay, so Jesus tells us that salt going flat, or a person going dull, foolish,

or flavorless, is the same word as moronic. So lose your saltiness and you don't

just lose your seasoning, you start to become a moron in the biblical sense of

the word. And at the time of Jesus, salt was— you didn't obviously buy it on the

shelves at Tesco's. Um, salt was dug from around the Dead Sea, okay? And so when

you dug out the salt, it was full of other minerals. So if you left the salt

lying around and exposed, the salt itself would leach away and you'd be left

with this little pile of white powder that looked like salt but didn't taste—

the powder didn't do anything. And Jesus says salt like that just gets thrown

out, it gets trampled onto the path, doesn't it? It's not good for anything,

which, like I say, is a bit ouch. It's a bit of a stinger. And remember, okay,

Jesus here is talking to his followers. So if you're a Christian, this is Jesus

talking to you. But it is not Jesus saying, you've blown it and there's no way

back, because the entire story of the gospel is people if I can put it this way,

people getting their saltiness back, right? So Peter, he denied knowing Jesus 3

times to people's faces. I mean, that's about as flavorless as you, as you can

get as a disciple. But Jesus restores him, and we know this from the stories in

the gospel. So this is more of a warning about a direction, not a sentence on a

person. Um, but it's a real warning that if you keep dialing yourself down to

fit in, then one day there's nothing left to taste. Now let me be also clear,

because I know what you might be thinking: Matt, are you telling me to go out

and be that awkward, difficult person? Well, no, don't be the person that makes

everything weird, because I don't think that's what Jesus is saying either. And

the other thing I think we have to watch out for is that this doesn't become the

Christian version of saying, just be yourself. The idea of be who you are is in

some ways a fine idea, right? It's lovely in many ways. But the question that

you've got to ask when you say things like that is, who decides who you are?

Right? And that question is a bit of a rabbit hole, let me tell you, because

there's no easy answer. Now, Brené Brown, and people might just tell you, just

be you, just be more you, and you get to decide who you are, right? That's what

we believe as a culture, as a society. But it's a lot more complicated than

that, and definitely a lot more nuanced, because your taste, your gut, your

sense of what matters are all shaped by your family, your friends, the videos

you watched when you were 14. Whether you like it or not, I, I will sit here and

freely admit I was influenced by The A-Team and Knight Rider, right? I just was,

uh, and it's fine, right? So to find the real you underneath all of that, you

fall into, uh, this what psychologists call this sort of infinite regress of

explanations that need other explanations to work. There's no clean,

unconditioned you sort of sitting at the bottom waiting to be discovered, which

is a bit awkward if I'm honest with you, if just be yourself was the only plan.

But Jesus didn't tell you to be more you. He didn't say go find the real you. He

talks about how you are the salt of the earth, like it's already true, like it's

not a target you need to achieve. It feels like it's become an undeniable fact

about those who follow him. Elsewhere in the Bible, it says that, um, I knew you

before I formed you in the womb, right? God says this in the Old Testament. I

knew you before I formed you in the womb, before your family, before your

culture, before a single person got to tell you who to be, you were known

according to the Bible. There's an eternal version of you that culture did not

create, and therefore culture cannot destroy, because it was given to you and

endowed upon you by your Creator. So the real you Jesus is talking about and

ultimately tells you to stop hiding isn't your unfiltered opinions, which is

normally what it is when we say just be more you, be more authentic, because I

don't think it was ever about that. But it is about identity and purpose, the

identity and purpose you were given. And that is meant to quietly but

powerfully, I think, change your environment through preserving and purifying

and amplifying the flavor of God's goodness to those around you. So you remember

me at the start, I told you the story about being on an escalator and how close

I came to walking by that couple. Well, it wasn't long, uh, after that actually,

God put me on the other side of the very same thing. So I'm driving down a busy

road and I am the first person, in essence, uh, to come across a bad car crash.

Okay, I pull up on the central reservation at the middle of the road, for those

outside the UK, and I go and look at the worst of the cars, and I need help, and

I need help fast. And a little crowd of people is starting to gather around,

right? Because everyone's watching, but nobody knows what to do. And I think

every single one of them would have helped. They wanted to, but they were just

standing there. So it's the bystander effect. Remember this, right? So I do the

one thing that the research taught me to do. I don't shout, somebody help me, I

point, and specifically I point to a bloke, the biggest guy that I can see. I

mean, he was huge, right? And I say, you, I need you to get into that car and

behind this passenger. And because I needed him to do that for me to carry on

what I was doing.

Okay.

And something extraordinary happens to this chap, who is kind of looking nervous

by the side of the road, wants to get involved, doesn't know what to do. He

springs into life and literally rips the door off the car. He says to me, do you

mind if I rip the door off? I'm like, no, the car's wrecked. So he rips it. He

turns into the hook. It was unlike anything I'd seen, right? That's what he did.

And it was super helpful. And here's the thing, right? He was always able to do

that. He had that in him the whole time. He was just waiting for that one person

to break the spell and tell him and call him and invite him into it. In other

words, he needed salt to amplify the flavor. Okay, you are the salt of the

earth. You don't have to rescue the room single-handed. You know, this isn't

Michael Knight on a lone crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, etc. You

don't need to win the room. You don't need a majority. You just have to be that

grain of salt that amplifies flavor to all those around you. And so if we go

back to Jesus and what he says and look at where Jesus lands this whole thing,

okay, he goes on to say in verse 14 and 14 to 16 in Matthew's Gospel, chapter 5.

He says, you are the light of the world, and a city on a hill cannot be hidden,

okay? Nor do people put, uh, nor do people light a lamp and put it under a

basket, but they put it on a stand, and it gives light to all of those in the

house. In the same way, let your light shine before others so that they may see

your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. It's an amazing

verse. He talks about being salt, and he talks about being light, and not being

hidden, but giving light to all those around you. Not so people can admire you,

not so you change every room, but so that they may see your good deeds and

glorify your Father in heaven. The whole point of the flavor you bring is that

you make people curious, and curiosity that points straight past you to God.

Okay, so you're not here to blend in. I think you are here to change the flavor

of the room. You know, I have, uh, been friends with a beautiful couple. Sharon

and I have been friends with a beautiful couple for almost 20 years. And they

serve the church in a massive way and have a real heart for the things of God.

But you know what? The stuff they have had to go through is insane, but they are

still the sweetest couple, just a real heart for God in spite of everything that

they're going through. And if I'm honest, they are some of the most inspiring

people that I know. I love to hang out with them. Not because everything in

their life is sorted— far from it, in fact— but because they bring this distinct

flavor to every single room that they enter. And life didn't have to be perfect

for them to do that, right? Far from it. God uses them right where they are, and

I think the world is a much, much better place for it. I try and be like them.

Uh, quite often I get it wrong, and I know I can end up being the obnoxious

person in the room rather than this distinct flavor that God's calling me to be.

We're all learning, right? But like I said, Jesus never asked me to win the

room. He never asked me to be the loudest person in the room. He never asked me

to make everything awkward. He just asked me not to walk past, not to hide who

he is inside me. Because you and I are the salt. You and I are the light. He

made us that a city on a hill cannot be hidden. Jesus said that because we never

were meant to be hidden. Just never went— meant to be. So this week we're gonna

get into conversation stream now, but this week let me give you a challenge,

right? Pick one conversation where you don't make yourself smaller to fit in.

Right? Let one true thing about you stay in the room. Your faith, your

conviction, your kindness, whatever God has been doing in you. Do not file it

off. Let the salt stay and do its thing. And watch what happens when you do,

because when people taste something genuinely different, they don't end up

staring at you. They start asking, about the one that you point to. So remember,

as Christians, you are not here to blend in. You are here simply to change the

flavor of the room. And on that bombshell, I'll hand back to my beautiful

colleagues.

Thank you, Matt, very much. Man, I'm getting my head round. I'm gonna give

Sharon a couple of moments to think of of something to draw out of that. But the

challenge to you, and it'd be great, and thank you for those in the chat, think

about what a story a little bit like Matt's had of someone that's had that kind

of flavor on you, because it'd be great to hear your stories as well. But

Sharon, yes, what do you, so I mean, any from you, any others? I mean, Matt's

talked about a couple you already know, but yeah, that impact of of flavoring a

room. And I love, I just love that concept. It's not something we particularly

think about, but I mean, light is another fantastic metaphor of that. Just like

something that just changes the atmosphere in a room. I don't know whether you

have also stories of that.

Yeah, there's one from last year when I was about to have an operation and

different, just before the operation, different members of my team came in to

prod and poke and get me to sign away my life and that sort of thing. And then

as soon as my anesthetist walks into the, like, by my bed, I was like, you're a

woman of faith. I could just see it on her. There was something different about

her. So she started talking to me and I stopped her and just said, are you a

woman of faith? And she went, yes. I think her husband was a bishop and she'd

been praying with colleagues before work for miracles and stuff. And she was

like, oh, how do you know? And then she went, oh yeah, same spirit. And there

was just something about her. I could sense the Holy Spirit in it. You could

almost see it on her. And yeah, and she was just an amazing person to have for

that situation because, um, before I went for the operation, she was singing

worship songs. So like, the whole room was— it just totally changed the

atmosphere. Yeah, the, the— one of the funny things about after the operation

Um, was the woman looking after me in the recovery room. Um, when I came around,

I said, oh, what's your name? And she said, oh, it's Angel. Um, I don't think

she was actually a Christian, but it was that whole situation. It was like God

wrapping me. Yeah. So that, I think, is a very powerful, obvious one where I

could just tell instantly. It's not all— it's not always like that.

And the one that springs to mind for me is, is something Yeah, much more subtle,

as you say, it's kind of a whole range. I was on a team as a, in my teens and we

had some problems to solve. We were on a building project. None of us really

knew anything about building, but everyone had an opinion. Um, and there was

this one guy who was actually probably the most qualified of us. He was, he was

a little bit older and he just used to keep quiet in the discussions and he was

just the humblest guy. Still a friend all these years later. He was just the

humblest guy. And everyone would come in and be like, "Opinions, opinions,

opinions." And everything would just begin to settle down. And then someone

would ask and say, "Jeff, what do you think?" And he had it. He had the answer,

but he wasn't shouting over everybody. And I love that picture of it bringing

out of others because actually just the way he approached that group dynamic and

sharing the wisdom that he did have,— it began to rub on, up on all of us. And

we're like, and whenever I was with him, I felt challenged. I was like, I'm

going to be a bit slower to speak. I'm just going to like listen a little bit

more, be a little bit more humble in my opinion. Um, and I love that. And, and

that, you have to say, that was somewhere in the harp. But it, but it wasn't the

most obvious thing because we were all kind of fighting for attention in a

sense. So yeah, it, it can be, it can be a big and a spiritual thing, or it can

actually just be a personality thing as well. But I think God uses both.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think it's quite incredible, isn't it? Yeah, that's the—

I think that's the beautiful thing about all of this. I'm, I'm loving the

comments, by the way. Can I just say, uh, if you're on YouTube watching the live

stream, do join in the comments. Um, and, and before, there is one thing that

came up that I just want to just sense check a little bit. So this idea that

good and evil are complementary right, that you can't have one without the

other. Um, I would disagree with— now I know for some of you, you might disagree

with what I'm saying in the comments, but I appreciate this is something that's

come up in the comments. I would say that evil is the absence of good.

Yeah, right.

It's not complementary, just like darkness is what you get when there's no

light.

Yes, right.

You, you don't need darkness for light to exist, but we know that light

overcomes the darkness, and we know that goodness overcomes evil. Um, and so,

and I think when Jesus is talking about this being the salt, it's, and let your

light shine, it's like the world is dark, so let your light shine. And it's not

just, you know, me and my opinion, this is the light that God has given me. I

suppose it's letting the light of God shine through us, isn't it, into these

various things.

Yeah, so I think I'm picking up on that. I just wanted to clarify as well, um,

who Jesus is talking to here when he says you are the light. Is he talking to

all people everywhere Or is he specifically talking about a group of people?

Well, I would say, um, well, it depends how you want to answer that, doesn't it?

Because you— we know that Jesus is talking to his followers, um, but we know

that Jesus knew everybody before the foundation of the world, right? We— I knew

you in your mother's womb. And I think there is a calling on every person. I

think there is a purpose and a reason and a flavor, I suppose, if I use a salt

analogy, that God has for everybody, right? Um, I believe that with my whole

heart. I don't think there's a specific group of people that God has ignored and

just like you're left to your own devices. Um, I think there is, there is room

for everybody, and I think there's a calling and a flavor for everybody. Um, but

I think that flavor is received So what do I mean by that? So, uh, babe, there's

my car keys. Can you just pass me my car keys? Awesome. So here are my car keys.

Sharon's just passed them to me. Car keys are always there, right? And Sharon

was giving me the car keys. You couldn't see it on the camera, but I still have

to reach out and take it, right? You could hold these car keys and I go, can you

give me the car keys? You're like, just take them. And we could argue all day

long. You're trying to give me And so I think when it comes to this flavor, this

light that comes from God, I think we have to receive it. And I, I think that

that is where, um, faith comes in. That's where the decision to be a Christ

follower, you know, like all the people that got baptized this weekend, um,

that's them reaching out to God and receiving the plans and purposes that God

has for them. So I think Jesus is talking specifically to his followers. But I

think there is an inclusion there for everybody who wants to receive the flavor

that God has for them, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. So it is that Jesus is talking about his followers are the light of

the world, but he wants everyone to be his follower.

Yes.

But not everyone currently is.

That's a much quicker and better way of saying what I just said.

No, it was good. What you said was great.

That's 16 hours on the M5 talking there. One of the other ways, one of the other

things I hear in that, which I think is interesting, and I think again, it is to

his followers, is that Jesus's followers were not important people in the

world's eyes. They were not people of status. They were not people of authority.

They were working people, many of them overlooked by society, and Jesus was

saying this incredible thing of like, you are the city on the hill, you are the

light that should shine out. I don't think anyone ever said that to these

people, probably. It's like, no, you're nothing, you're fishermen, you're a

despised tax collector, you're, um, etc., etc.

Yeah.

Um, we don't know that much about all the disciples, but they were not people of

big societal influence. And to be told that you are the ones that bring the

flavor to the society that you're in, um, is a huge challenge, but also a

massive encouragement to all of us. Yeah, it's not about the, the positional

power that we have. The challenge is to all of us to, to flavor the room that we

find ourselves in. Yeah. And that I, I love. And that can apply to all of us,

but I think when we know Jesus and we're walking hand in hand with Jesus, it

becomes, it becomes more urgent call, and I think a more powerful one as well,

because we have, yeah, words of Christ. Yeah, yeah. Literally the fragrance of

Christ. Yeah.

I think for some people that could sound like, oh no, I've got to, wherever I

am, I've got to try and be this, like, yeah, and like have that sense of

striving with it. But I think I don't get that sense from this. It's like you

already are these things, and if you, if you just receive— like Matt said, if

you receive from me who you are and just live out of that, yeah, listen to my

spirit and just go with the flow of the spirit, you will automatically do those

things. But sometimes it's like we, we don't— we either don't listen to God or

we're not listening to him for who we are.

Yeah.

So then we end up believing all these lies and other stuff, or whatever the

world chucks at us. Um, like You might have grown up being told that you're

worthless, so you believe that lie that you're worthless or that you're not

loved or you're no good. But it's like God's saying, no, none of those things

are true. If you listen to who I say you are, you're just— and let that flow,

you're just going to do it automatically. Yeah, yeah. But it's like taking that

stop off, isn't it?

It is. But there's also that lie that says, um, I I like what Cesar Kalinowski

says. He calls it the do-to-be lie. I have to do this to be of someone

important, right? So the whole Western idea of success is almost built on this.

I have to do this and therefore I become successful, right? So my identity

follows what I do. Um, and I, I, I get why you would think that. I, I just don't

know if, if that really is, is the case, you know. I think I think you can

either, like Jesus said, don't hide the light, you can hide away from that call,

from that purpose. Or you can go, well, if Jesus wants me to be the light, let

me grab as many torches from places I probably shouldn't grab them. Be the

biggest, brightest light I can be. It's not quite what Jesus is saying there

either. I think there's the two polar opposites, isn't there? And there is just

that receiving and just that quiet confidence. And that faith which says, I

believe this is where God's got me to be, and I'm going to walk in this. Yeah.

Rather than, you know, Dan's awesome, I don't, I don't want to be Dan. Will's

awesome, I don't want to be Will. I need to be me.

Yeah.

And, and accepting that, receiving that, I think is powerful.

Yeah. And I think, yeah, receiving who God says you are as well, it means, and

being secure that you are loved and not having to compete with anyone as well.

It takes the pressure off of like, I don't I can enjoy someone else's gifts and

who they are without thinking, oh, but I'm not like that, maybe I should be like

that.

And Jesus' command in this is interesting, isn't it? I think you sort of brought

that bit in your talk. He doesn't say you are to become the light of the world,

you are to shine out. The command actually is do not hide. Yeah, the light that

you already are, or do not allow that saltiness to kind of leach out. So he is

very much speaking that truth, saying You are already this. Yeah.

Yeah.

As you say, there's no, there's no striving. This is your identity.

Yeah.

And, and yeah, we want to speak that to anyone that's watching this that's

thinking, who am I? I've got nothing. We want to spit that as Jesus' word to

you. It's like, no, you are the light of the world.

Yeah.

You are the salt that brings flavor to the room that you're in. Uh, just don't

hide it, or don't allow it to be hidden, or don't allow it to be squashed. Um,

and, and that's actually the command, which is quite different, isn't it, from

You must be this. It's like, don't hide who you are. Yeah. Which is lovely. Any

other questions coming through the chat or comments or stories?

I can't see any on here, but no, it's cool.

John and Sarah are in the room.

John and Sarah say, how's it?

Oh, great. Good to see you, John and Sarah.

There's some interesting conversations going on. Alicia and Sudan. I hope I'm—

sorry, am I mispronouncing your name? Sudan, maybe. Who says faith is an

illusion. God is to know, not to believe. Through this we will move to

perfection and what more humanity needs. But if we just believe in God, um, if

we just believe in our God, they are multiple. Um, I'm not quite sure what you

mean, but I, I think that the idea is, um, if, uh, I'm sorry, I'm just reading

the rest Say again.

I think so, but if we just believe in our God, but they're all multiple, like—

Right, okay, then we'd be more— but for instance, Buddhism— Buddha is silent

about God, and that's the best example of a peaceful religion. I don't know

actually, um, if I would agree that Buddhism is the perfect example of a

peaceful religion. I don't know if any religion is an example of a peaceful

religion. Um, I, I— but I do think I get what you're saying about faith, but I

think here's the thing, right? I, um, I am married to Sharon, who you've met,

and I believe that Sharon exists, obviously, and I, I want to know her, um, and

know her more. But the basis of our relationship has also got to be based on

trust. So maybe substitute the word trust with faith.

I—

the reason we have a good relationship is I can believe her. I'm not checking

her every 20 seconds. Who you with? What did you say? Why did you say that? Who

did you just look at? Why did you— unless I have that trust, what kind of

relationship are we going to have? Um, and I would say that my walk with God is

about getting to know him, right? Jesus said, my sheep know my voice. And so

it's this whole idea that the, um, the more we walk with God, the more we get to

know him. Um, There's a wonderful verse in the New Testament where Paul, um, one

of the writers of the New Testament, he says, for I know in part and I prophesy

in part, um, but when he is revealed, all things will be revealed. And so there

is this idea that we don't know everything, and that revelation, that

understanding, that knowledge, um, comes as we walk with him. But the foundation

of that is we have to trust him. Um, and we have to have that faith. And in

fact, the Bible says without faith it is impossible to please God, um, in

Hebrews 11:6, I'm guessing, somewhere around there. Um, so I, I think there's

Hebrews 11:6

some really interesting elements to this, um, but I don't want to get too

sidetracked. But I hope hopefully that's helpful.

Um, I just want to bring a slightly different angle on the bystander effect,

actually. It was John this weekend who, uh, who told me some fascinating and

quite amusing research since we were going down to a very popular beach in

Dorset to do these baptisms this weekend. And it filled up very, very quickly.

And some— an early party went down to try and stake out a claim and it quickly

got kind of piled in. But anyway, John was telling me this bit of research where

they— I think it was in Bryn— went to a beach early, this kind of film crew, and

it was exactly the same the fact that you were talking about, and drew out this

very large square on the beach, like a trench around it, and put a single deck

chair in the middle. And a guy sits on the deck chair and it's like, this is my

space, this is my castle. And they videoed the whole day. And the only people

that stepped into the square did it by mistake and apologised to the guy on the

deck chair. The rest of the beach is absolutely packed. But no one came and

said, uh, can I just set up here by you? Because it's like, okay, they've stated

their claim. So a slightly different angle on what we're talking about, about

being salt and light. Yeah, there's a real challenge to, to, to challenge what

we see, and, and to— and that's part of it, to call out the wrong flavors, to

call out where actually there is darkness, and not just to kind of merge into,

uh, what can be a sort of ridiculous bystander I mean, that's a silly example.

I'm not saying that's particularly weird, but, you know, we can all just go

along a little bit like you, kind of pushing past those people on the escalator.

And we do have a responsibility to call out when there is another flavour in the

room or where there is something that is squashing light, whether that be in an

individual through an abusive relationship or just the way that they're talking,

whether it be culturally, politically, whatever it is, we do have that

responsibility to call out. And I think that's part of being the flavour, the

light as well, is to challenge and not just be caught up in the crowd of like,

oh, it's a bit hard to go about.

Yeah. I want to pick up on some comments, but first I think one of the things I

might remember from this evening is that tip on how to to get a space on the

beach.

We're gonna— and I bet you everybody on that beach— here's the thing, I reckon

everybody on that beach, um, would have been really annoyed at that fella.

They'd have been sitting there, right, every— in there, under their breath. And

this is what we do, especially the Brits, uh, we sort of sit there and we'll

complain about what somebody else is doing, but we won't do anything about it.

See, I wonder whether people thought, oh, there's obviously a reason for that,

maybe something's going to happen.

Exactly the same thing. It's that kind of bystander effect, like, clearly

there's something here I don't understand because no one else is going on the

square, so I'm not going to be the one that breaks down. I mean, for me, I

always like to think I'm— and I've had lots of examples of that— I'd like to

think I was the person that would challenge it, but actually you don't really

know until you've got that kind of crowd of—

Yeah, yeah, you don't know, do you?

I think I've missed something. There was some announcement earlier on the day

before I came.

I think I'll be the nosy person who went over and went, what's happening here

today? Yeah. But anyway, a few comments. We've got Ellis who says, I think some

people are just scared of being seen as odd or for standing out for the wrong

reasons. I know I can relate to that personally. I also can relate to that

personally. I think we all can. I think we all got that same sense of we don't

want to be weird, do we?

Well, there's also a wisdom to this, right?

Yeah, there is.

So, I think knowing what you believe is important and knowing what you think is

important, but also knowing when to say something.

And how to say it.

Yeah. So I think there's wisdom there.

Yeah, definitely. He's also— Ellis also follows on saying, it can be difficult

to be the person who mentions faith or the church, etc., when others don't. But

of course, social difficulty doesn't really mean much, as we should be doing it

even if it's uncomfy. Yeah, yeah. And like Matt's just said, it's the wisdom,

isn't it, to know when to speak, when actually it's wise to be silent, and when

it's not so much about speaking but just maybe doing something different, maybe

Modeling something different. Yeah, maybe if you've got someone at work who's

just a bit lonely and sat by themselves and everybody's sort of talking about

them a bit, to be the person to go and say hi or offer them a cup of tea or just

something really simple. But it just can be quite subtle that, oh, it's like, oh

yeah, it just changes things a bit.

Yep.

Don't know if you've got any more examples of the very simple where God's just

said, just go and do this, but it's not necessarily like overtly faith, but it's

just that nudge of the Holy Spirit saying, I just want you to go and do this

now. And it just sort of changes the atmosphere. I'm trying to think of one

myself.

Oh, there's all kinds of things, isn't there? So like, um, I suppose the obvious

one is always quite good fun to do. This is when you're going through the

drive-through. Not that you, babe, would ever go through the drive-through. And

of course, I never go through the drive-through. I'm just thinking about other

people that go through the drive-through. Go through the drive-through and pay

for the meal of the person behind you as well as yours and see what happens. Um,

I think little things like that, I mean, it's— you're just being a bit of salt.

Um, and it's not like you need to leave a 'God told me to do this' kind of card,

you know, 'You need to go to church because I'm paying for your McDonald's.'

That's not what I'm saying, um, at all. But there are so many ways, I think,

that you can inject something of God's hard, right? Like, I was walking past,

um, a restaurant that I, I like to eat at, and I saw a friend of mine in there,

so I snuck into the restaurant, paid their meal, right? Just because I thought

it'd be fun to do. Um, and the only reason they found out about it is because I

go in there all the time and they knew me, and they saw Matt paid for it. I

should have told him to keep it quiet. Um, but things like that I think are just

great fun, right? Or just, you know, When you're walking past a homeless person,

rather than just walking past them and ignoring them, or rather than thinking to

yourself, well, if I give them money, are they just going to go spend it on

drugs? Just go into Greggs and buy them a sausage roll and give them the sausage

roll, right? I mean, there's, there's so many things that we can do, I think,

just to inject something in the heart of God. And here's the thing, right? There

was that thing years ago, wasn't there, that What Would Jesus Do campaign? And I

think You can take anything, take any religious position, take any political

divide, ask yourself the question, what would Jesus do? And I think more often

than not, he would reach across the room and he would love the person in front

of them into the kingdom. He would restore them, right? So rather than seeking

to argue with people, a way to ask to bring flavor is try and understand the

person that's in front of you, right?

And so, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, no, I think the way we relate to people is

probably one of the most powerful and actually the way we talk about other

people as well. Yeah. And sometimes it's the same thing. It's the same kind of

crowd effect when someone starts to moan about something or moan about a person,

everyone else is like, I want to kind of fit in with this crowd and suddenly

everyone's moaning. And it could be as simple as just saying, I don't know,

giving some context or giving a different perspective. And suddenly everyone

flips around and goes, oh yeah, no, oh, that might be good. Oh yeah, and they

did that well. And it can like, okay, you're very fickle in your views, but we

are, aren't we? We all have these kind of opinions. And as soon as anyone talks,

we're sort of agreeing with their opinion, unless you just absolutely love an

argument and you will always disagree with everything. And then, you know, no

offense to those people as well. But generally, we kind of build relationship by

talking in agreement. And sometimes it's as simple as just bringing an

alternative point of view.

Yeah.

And it's not, it doesn't have to be confrontational.

Yeah.

It's just like, it's just a loving point of view or just pointing out or just

saying.

Or just to ask a question.

Yeah. That's not a great thing to say about that particular situation or person.

We have it all the time on our street WhatsApp. It's like, you know, you just

throw something into the street WhatsApp and it's like, and you come back, it's

like 38 messages about this thing and everyone kind of piling on. And sometimes

you just have to just put something in and say, actually, have you thought about

this? And go, oh yeah, and then, you know, everyone's suddenly talking on that.

It's a very simple thing, but I think the way we relate to people, um, it's

absolutely God's heart and absolutely Christ's heart, and it's a really powerful

way to, to influence Catherine's put, um, I guess it's easy to mask in any

situation, also in church community.

So how do you tell who's authentic in that setting? Yeah, it is totally. Yeah, I

think—

yeah, that's a great question.

Yeah, because church culture, although obviously it should be good if we are

genuinely listening to God, and— but where it's— church is made up of people who

are all different stages and have come through different things, and God's

working on everybody differently. So sometimes church culture can be really

tough.

Yeah.

And it cannot be healthy. And then it can be easy to feel like you've got to

conform to this unhealthy thing, even within church. So the question is, yeah,

how do you tell who's being authentic?

It's more than that, isn't it? Because I think when you're in church and you're

hearing people's stories about how God's answered their prayer, or you know, you

read verses in the Bible. We're having a conversation this morning, like, is it

a sin to be, uh, is it a sin to worry? Is that, you know, is that a sin? And

it's really interesting, you read some of these verses in the Bible and you kind

of think, well, if we, you know, if you just take that out of context, not

intentionally, but you can kind of go, well, therefore I can't be seen to be

worrying, right?

Yeah.

Or I, I, I can't be seen to be like, if I'm sick, well, surely God should heal

me if I've got enough faith, so I can't be be seen to be sick or even talk about

sickness in some circles, because if I do, I'm, I'm, you know, the power of life

and death is in the tongue and I'm in deep trouble, right? So yeah, I think

there is a pressure in the church to look like the good Christian. So to say the

right thing, do the right thing, have God do the right thing, show that God's

working in my life. And if you don't have the story or the testimony, you know,

that somebody's just shared, you feel like Maybe you should. And so that's, I

think, when you start to— I think there's a real pressure to mask because of

that.

Yeah, yeah, there can be.

And I think, I mean, Jesus is very— he's quite simple on it. He says, judge the

tree by its fruit. I mean, that's quite a— that's not always easy, but that is a

way that you, like, if you're— if you want to test out whether something's

authentic, well, look at the fruit of it, and does it align with what you

understand as God's word and God's grace? But I think also Um, I think we can,

we can get a bit hung up about it. And for me, I'm not always too bothered about

whether that's— whether I need to. I, I'm a follower of Christ. I'm not a

follower of anyone else's opinion particularly. And, and that, that kind of need

to know whether someone's authentic or not, partly it's none of my business.

And, and you come across people and go, yeah, I'm not quite sure about that. You

could pray for them. You could pray, God, help that person in, in whatever

they're in. Sometimes it might be appropriate to, to challenge or just to ask

those questions, open up the discussion and find out what they think. But, um, I

think we can, we can get a little bit hung up as well about, yeah, grading

people as how authentic they are. It's like, can relate to people without

necessarily having that clear in your head.

Yeah, I guess it, that becomes more of an issue if you're wanting to have a

deeper relationship with somebody. And then that— it is important to discern,

isn't it? And I think sometimes we can actually, like, God give us that sense of

discernment. Other times it shows itself over time in the things where they're

not— where they don't think they're being watched, and just to— and how they

relate with people. Yeah, behind the scenes. But that— it does take time and a

bit of discernment.

Taking people at face value, it can be a very godly and very precious thing to

do sometimes. Rather than, again, yeah, being too hung up about, are they, are

they real? Um, yeah, yeah. And I mean, it really depends on the situation, the

relationship, influence they have in church.

And for people, I think, I'm guessing, like, a lot of people who have genuinely

been really hurt by that, does become an important question, doesn't it?

It does, yeah.

But I also think, um, sometimes people mask because they don't know any other

way, right? And what they need is permission to not do that. And so when you,

um, when you yourself are real and vulnerable and bring that salt, you change

the flavor, and that gives permission for the other people to do that, right? So

one of the greatest things to do, I think, is— I mean, I was talking about how,

you know, our friends who are really inspirational, they're not inspirational

because whenever I see them, they're like, oh, got this great story of how God

miraculously healed all these crazy conditions that are going on. I'm inspired

because they're like, it's all nuts and it's horrible, but in spite that, you

know, we're trusting God and we're seeing God do stuff over here, and we know

that God's got us to do this, and we're getting some real joy over there. That's

inspirational, right? And so I think, don't worry so much about other people.

Focus on you. Be that salt, and you'll be surprised I guess, um, what impact

that has on people.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you everybody for, for the chat and the conversation. Oh,

Sharon's got a hand up.

Yeah, sorry. Ellis has put in one more question, which I think is important to

answer before we finish.

Yeah.

If that was where you were going.

I was.

Um, it was, was the person— so the important question is, was the person on the

escalator okay in the end?

Was the person on the estate okay in the end? To find out the answer to that,

tune in next week.

You're so naughty sometimes.

All I can say is by the time I left, they were okay. They, yes, life was good.

They'd not died.

Thank you, thank you, Ellen, for the compassion, the compassion in the chat.

I think lots of other people have been wondering that as well.

What happened to that person?

Yeah, yeah, it's a half-finished story.

They're great, they are, the half-finished stories. Um, okay, thank you all very

much for, for dialing in. I'm not entirely sure how we're doing Live Lounge at

the moment, so, um, but I think—

so shall I tell you?

Yeah, go on, Matt. Why don't you tell us how we're doing Live Lounge at the

moment?

So Dan's gonna put— Dan's already put in the comments the link, uh,

go.crowd.church/meet, uh, is in the comments. So, um, If you click that link, if

you go to that link, it's a Google Meets room. So we'll be in there only for

10-15 minutes. Come and say hello, come meet some people and just enjoy

connecting, have a conversation. Alice, I just noticed, said good in the

comments. Yes, it is good. So, um, and can I hasten to add, it wasn't because I

was some blindly great medic. I just want to point that out as well. But it did

all work out in the end. So yeah, so come meet us in Live Lounge,

go.crowd.church/meet, just click the link. It'd be great to meet you. It's just

nice to connect with people, you know. I know.

Yeah, be bold, put a face to the name.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the chat. And yeah, that's where the community builds. So come along. It is.

And that's where we'll be.

We'll be doing livestream again next Sunday evening and we're carrying on the

Jesus the Revolutionary series.

Who's talking next week?

Who's talking? I'm talking next week. And the topic is all are welcome at the

table, and it'll be great.

I have no doubt.

At least it better be. So Sharon, any final words?

I don't think so, no.

Matt, any final words?

Oh yeah, definitely.

He's going to do another preach now you said that.

I'm not. I just want to refer to one comment. You can only believe in a personal

being But God is beyond space and time. I would say with the Christian faith

that Jesus was a personal being and is a personal being, and that's how we get

to know God. God incarnate, God Emmanuel, God with us. We believe fully that he

was 100% God and 100% man, and the whole thing about Christianity is wrapped up,

uh, into this idea that God came as a being, as a personal being that we could

know. He died, he rose from the grave, and we can trust in him, and we get to be

the salt and light of the earth, which is phenomenal. So yeah, um, I agree on

the personal being. I would say and add to that, but God came as a personal

being. So that's my lesson.

Amen. Thank you very much, man. Um, that's a good wrap-up. So have a fantastic

week, and, uh, God bless you wherever you are and whenever you are watching

this. Please do check out all the other resources on Crowd Church. There are

hundreds of topics covered. Please do have a look. And if you are interested in

finding out more and want to join an Alpha, please do click on that link as

well. All the information is on crowd.church. So, good night. Good to see you.

Bye-bye. Good night.

Bye.