Defining NEO-IFB Movement

I just a couple minutes, it's gonna be a little bit different

tonight. Obviously, we're talking about

the Neo Independent Baptist Movement.

We spent a lot of time talking about what we what it means to

be a Baptist. Then we moved into specifically

what it means to be an independent Baptist.

And now last week we kind of started into this this idea of

the Neo Independent Baptist movement and really just a lot

of a lot of churches, if you will.

But even even people pastors Those who want to change the

Independent Baptist movement from the inside we and looking

at what, it means to be an independent Baptist really

looked at at what it is from. Somebody outside looking in.

And what we're doing here is really taking a very hard

introspective look and there's a lot within the Independent

Baptist movement that want to change it into something that it

was never meant to be. And something that's very

dangerous thing. So I'm going to do a lot of

reading tonight and that's why I say it's A little bit different

mostly because I want to use the exact words of those who are

leading this Neo, Independent Baptist movement.

I'm going to give you what they Define as this new movement.

And that's what they're trying to do is start a new movement

and and how they Define it. And then next week, we're going

to look at an answer to each one of these points.

Its kind of I'm going off of one article in particular that was

written by Josh Tice. I mentioned his name last week

he is one. That is really He's not the only

one by any stretch but he's one, that's kind of headed up this

idea of the Neo Independent Baptist movement and he wrote an

article that listed out all the things that define the Neo

Independent Baptist movement. So I'm gonna I'm gonna base it

off of that article and give you a lot of what he said in that

article tonight. But then the next week, we're

going to look at each one of those individual points and talk

about talk about it from, from our perspective.

And from a perspective of there is no need to change.

Other than maybe some some different philosophy type things

or you know, practical type things maybe.

But as we get into this I think it's important for us to

understand a couple things in any serious theological

disagreement and make no mistake that.

That's exactly what this is. It's a theological disagreement.

We have to keep several things in mind.

The first one and the most important one is that we always

have to make the scripture the basis for anything that we Say,

or do or stand on, or anything else?

It's also helpful. I think to make sure that we

keep our emotions in check and to think an argue from an

intellectual standpoint rather than from the intellect to the

emotions to the will and it has to be in that order and

hopefully you'll understand that as we go through it.

But I think in addition to those two, I would also add that it's

necessary to make sure we can tell the difference between

friend and foe. For treating a man or a group as

the enemy. When in fact, they're not, and

vice versa has done a lot of harm to the cause of Christ over

the years. And I don't want to make that

mistake as we go through here, but Jude tells us to earnestly

contend for the faith, right? And that's something that we

stand on a lot earnestly contend for the faith and I think that's

absolutely, it's very, very important that we do that.

But as I understand the last two words of that phrase, the faith,

it implies. All the doctrines.

That are taught in the word of God that we're supposed to

believe. Now primarily, if you were to

kind of list some of those things out, well let me ask you

this. Let's let's have a little bit of

interaction tonight. What do you think some of the

primary doctrines of the faith would be?

Maybe you could call them fundamentals of the faith.

And again, there's those last two words, the faith.

What do you think? They would be give me a couple

ideas of some things that you think would be the fundamentals

of the faith? Death, burial and resurrection

of Jesus Christ, fundamental of the faith.

What else? The Virgin?

Birth of Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ was not born of

a virgin, then we have we don't have a savior, he was not

perfect. If he was not born of a virgin

because that means he came through the, the Earthly line of

Adam and wherefore. As by one man sin entered into

the world and death by sin and so death passed upon all men for

that. All have sinned.

Jesus Christ could not have borne of been born of anything

other than a virgin and still be sinless.

That's another One, what else? Second coming of Jesus Christ.

Yep. What's another one?

Jackson Let the deity of Christ. Yeah.

What's another one? Yeah.

Death burial and Resurrection. Yep, very good.

Anything else? I already mentioned one of them

just a little bit ago. Jackson.

The inerrancy of the Bible, right?

So a lot of those you're hitting on a lot of different things.

The, the literal, Resurrection, the atoning death, the Virgin

birth, you know, the second coming salvation by grace,

through faith. Those are the doctrines that are

critically important to Eternity and between all of us, we hit

all of them. All right?

Tom Brennan, wrote a book. I think I mentioned it.

It's called schizophrenic and I think it's an excellent.

Excellent book. He's, he's an independent

Baptist and has been since since he was born essentially because

Dad was an independent Baptist, pastor, obviously, he came to

the conclusion. A lot of these conclusions on

his own and God called him into the ministry and he's been a

pastor for quite some time himself.

But he wrote a book called schizophrenic.

That basically says, this is everything that's right, with

the Independent Baptist movement.

This is everything that's wrong. We don't need to throw the baby

out with the bathwater. We need to change the things

that are wrong and Shore up the things that are right and

there's a whole lot more things that are right then that are

wrong but in that book schizophrenic he kind of

mentioned some of these Fundamental doctrines.

And then he said this beyond that, as an independent Baptist,

I hold the other doctrines that I think the Bible clearly

teaches and that are also important.

But at the bare minimum, the man who holds these doctrines is my

brother in Christ. We share.

We shall share Heaven someday. He is not my enemy, though.

I may differ with him on a veritable plethora of other

things is an Orthodox, Christian not in a denominational sense,

but in a doctrinal sense. So to put it plainly, Josh

Tyson, In these other guys and and really I'm not I'm not

really using any other names. He's the main one that is

leading this independent Baptists Neo Independent Baptist

movement so he's the de facto head if you will but Josh Titus

and the movement that he represents are not the enemy and

I want to make sure that that's clear.

If Jesus tarries his coming, we're both going to die someday.

And we're both going to stand before Christ and we're both

looking for to hear God. Say Well done thou good and

faithful servant. Right.

Are, you know, everything about our lives, that tail of Our

Lives, if you will, is not told yet.

But it's reasonable to expect that that he along with us.

Well, hear well done, thou good and faithful servant the my, you

know, the pastor across town. Whoever that happens to be that

is that is morphing. His traditional Independent

Baptist Church into something other than what we've always

stood for something that he thinks is new or that he thinks

is better is going to walk the same golden streets that we do.

Now he's going to eat from the same, you know, tree with 12

fruits that we do. He's going to you know, he's

going to kneel before the same Throne of God that we do.

So we have to understand that they're not the enemy.

They're not the ones that we're fighting against.

He they are not the enemy there, there are Brethren.

The devil is the enemy. There's nothing that he would

like to do more than completely separate Christians, amongst

each other, because the divided force is not going to stand now.

Not only are these men, not the enemy.

I think there are some things that, that, that are that there

are two like about them. You start, especially you get to

know some of these guys and I know, so I don't know, Josh

theis personally have never met him, only things that I've read

that he's written and only things that I've read about

that. You know, some of these other

men that have participated in some of the things that he's

done, and I've read them. So I feel like I have a pretty

good understanding of who he is, even though I have not met.

But I know a lot of guys who are just like him and who really

look up to him and really have that same kind of mindset and on

a personal level. Most of these guys are

relatable, they're not arrogant, you know, there.

And that's one of the things that kind of makes them

influential. They're nice guys, you know, and

and they really have a genuine heart for people and and I think

some of those kind of things are what makes them a little bit

disarming? You know, man, how can they be

that wrong? They're so nice, you know, and

they are a lot of them are that way.

They're very friendly, they're Approachable that they're just

as willing to listen as they are to speak.

But I think like like a lot of younger men in the Independent

Baptist movement, they've seen the damage that's been reached

on families by men of the previous generation who were

married to the church and they were to their wife and let their

kids essentially grow up and live.

However, they wanted to didn't train their children.

And the sad thing is we this is not just 70s 80s, 90s thing.

This is something that you see that goes all the way back to

the 40s and the 50s. 50s. And I mean, you know, Billy

Sunday, Billy Sunday's, kids and Billy Sunday was really

well-known, really Sunday's kids.

I don't even know if they were saved.

Others, who were very well-known evangelist and very well-known

pastors throughout the the, you know, the really the 20th

century had kids, who never grew up and lived for God because

they were more married to the ministry than they were to their

wife and more concerned about what happened in the church, and

they were about what happened with their family and forgot,

their primary Ministry is their family.

But Josh, tell you so I think, you know, leads in that I can't

find fault in the way that he handles himself with his family

and and, you know, I can't speak for how?

Well, he's rearing his family, if you will.

But you know, seems like he and his wife get along.

Well, they have a loving relationship, and and that's not

something that you can fault them for looking at it.

On the ministry side, I think there's a commitment to really

to an accurate knowledge of history and and I think they're

trying to do their best with some of these things.

That they have. And I think at the end of the

day, I do think that they have a passion for Souls where they're,

where they're off and where they're wrong, is in the way

that they go about it. And that's what we're going to

talk about, a lot of these different things.

But so if they're not the enemy and they have things to like

about them, then why bring division where there ought to be

Unity, right? There's a lot of people that

would ask that question. Well, if they're, they're so

nice. And if they have a passion for

souls and everything else, then why even bring this stuff up.

Why even why even caused a division where there should be a

Unity? And I think this is where we

come to Galatians Chapter 2 and as soon as I mentioned this,

Galatians 2 · chapter mention

you're going to know where we're going with this.

But Peter and Paul were brothers to write, they share the same

Heritage, the same Doctrine. The same Faith, they were

co-laborers, they were serving God.

Together with great ability with great sincerity with great

devotion. But the Bible says, in Galatians

Galatians 2 · chapter mention

Chapter 2, and verse number 12, but when Peter was come to,

Antioch course, Paul speaking here, I withstood him to the

face because he was to be blamed For before that certain came

from James, he did eat with the Gentiles but when they were

come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them, which

were of the circumcision and the other Jews dissembled likewise

with him insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their

dissimulation. Well, they Brothers.

Yes, where they enemies? Absolutely not.

They were working together for the cause of the gospel and Paul

had power. I think in a lot of ways, Peter

had power, Barnabas had power, but Paul felt it was necessary.

Not to just disagree with Peter, but to actually do that

forcefully. He withstood him to the face.

The Bible says, and publicly essentially what he's saying is,

I said this to Peter before everybody because he needed to

be rebuked publicly because of what he was doing, why was that?

Because there was a lot of other Jews that dissembled likewise

with him. Even Barnabas was taken away in

what Peter had done. And basically, if you didn't

catch what, what Paul was saying is, you know, Pete I had no

problem heat within the eating with the Gentiles, the way that

he was you know, that he should because Jesus Christ came to

save the Gentiles. Well, when James came all the

sudden Peter didn't want anything to do with the Gentiles

anymore. He would only eat with the Jews,

right? And Paul was saying you're dead

wrong in that. That was that a doctrinal issue.

No, not necessarily, it's not a doctrinal issue at all, but the

problem doesn't just lie in the disagreements that I may, or may

not have with somebody that's in another church or another

Pastor, or what another brother in Christ does in his church,

it's the influence that spreading out from those

churches and amongst those men, and who they are influencing.

And it's the Next Generation, especially, but it's even those

in their same generation that they're influencing, as well as

so, it's eventually going to take over.

So the movement that Josh Titus is forming around himself and

other like-minded men really holds the potential to carry a

tremendous really carry away a tremendous number of solid men

and strong churches. And I think I should add that

probably not even the just a potential that it's actually

happening. They are carrying these men away

and we're seeing it happen. Amongst men that have been in

the ministry for even even 4 years, 20. 30 years changing

Bible versions and changing the way that they're doing.

Everything in their churches to the point where they really

don't even look like a Baptist Church anymore, let alone an

independent Baptist Church. But in just a short time, we've

really witnessed a very radical changes and it's not just about

where the Neo Independent Baptist movement is at its,

where is this Neo, Independent Baptist movement going?

And who are they taking with them?

Where is it heading the number of God's people that are that

are going along with it. And that's why this is not some

little disagreement that we can, you know, sit down and discuss

in private between. In two people, this is something

that has very, very big implications and the longer this

movement goes on. The more we are seeing the

impact that this movement is having, because what happens is,

You have these churches, let's just take a charge.

For example let's say this church has 300 people in it and

we're seeing this happen all over the place.

I can think of right now. Five churches off the top of my

head that are in this situation right now, have 300 people in

the church, the pastor starts to really jump in.

On these ideas of, you know, what we need to be more, we need

to be less biblical truth and more, you know, pragmatic the

ends justifies, the means so some things that we May really,

you know, it's a gray area on whether we should do it or not.

Well, if it's going to get people in, then we'll do it.

So they start changing everything.

They relax all the services. And now, you know, now you have

people up there leading in skinny jeans in a collared

shirt, untucked right. And then and then next thing,

you know there's a band up on the stage and and you know

there's seven or eight people standing up there with

microphones on the stage and then the, you know, then the

standards of dress start to change and Then the next thing,

you know they don't look any different than a some

nondenominational church, right? And then the Bible changes and

then everything else just follows right behind that, okay,

that church changed, but guess what?

You have 300 people in that church.

Now, you're strong ones who believe only in the King James

and who are not following that contemporary crowd and

everything else. Down that path or going to

leave, they're going to get others in who are in strong.

Churches who don't like the Wrong stand who are going to end

up going over to that church and joining and every whatever else

and they probably will even grow and that church.

That was 300 is now 350 or 400. But what happens is all the

young people that are growing up in that church?

Don't know about the stand that used to be.

So where some people might say, well that's a little farther

than I'm willing to go with it and this is, you know, that

church is going in that direction.

But this is not as far as we're going to go, but we're going to

stay here that that next generation of kids is being So

influenced by that and does not know the heritage of where they

came from and they're going to be full-blown contemporary

churches if they grow up and even stay in church.

But if they grow up and get called into the ministry, that's

what they're going to start. It's not going to be anything

close to an independent fundamental Baptist Church.

It's going to be a non-denominational Neo

contemporary church at the beginning and then who knows

where it goes from there. And we haven't been far enough

into this yet to see where it's all going to lead, but you can

look at it and say, this is where it's going and this is the

danger in it. So it's very, very important

that we have. This conversation is a

conversation that's not only worth having, but it must be had

if we're going to save that next generation and be in the in the

direction that God wants us to go turn over to Second

2 Chronicles 12 · chapter mention

Chronicles, chapter 12. Because the consequences of a

departure from our traditional approach to church and Ministry

have to be examined and they have to be weighed.

And to fail in this is to fail in our responsibility, to each

other, to the truth, to Future generations.

To the very God at whose feet were all going to Bow someday.

God gave the same responsibility to the men of the tribe of

issachar and second Chronicles chapter 12 and verse number 32.

2 Chronicles 12 · chapter mention

And of the children of is sekar, which were men that had

understanding of the times to know what Israel ought to do.

The heads of them were 200 and all their Brethren were at their

commandment. Now I'm not trying to set up set

up, set us up as some kind of Spiritual Authority, but we do

have to be spiritual Watchman and that involves paying

attention to what's going on in the independent fundamental

Baptist world and in these other churches and pointing out the

errors in it. I just want to see our church

church is do well in the eyes of God, and in the lives of a

desperately need Humanity. There's no long-term.

Good to be gained by heading down these this.

Now well-worn path of the Contemporary movement.

No, good. And a lot of grief and I've seen

that happen in just a very short time that this contemporary

movement has been around. And I don't know if I make 20

years, might even be too long you know but it's still a

problem. Started back around that time.

But within the last 10 years, really, you've really seen a lot

of these churches moving in that direction and it's these solid

Independent Baptist Churches, who started weakening their

stand. And now that generation, who was

growing up and almost grown. During that time moved and

started their own churches. And now, they've taken that semi

strong stand. And we can add even more.

And now they're the pastor's of those churches, who are

weakening that stand even more to where the, to the Point where

the generation that they're raising.

Now is going to be so weak, they won't even be able to stay in

Period, let alone be able to stand on the truth of the word

of God. Having said that this is a

quote. And in fact, here's what I want

you to do, as we go through this tonight, I'm not going to take a

lot of time tonight after this, but We're going to go through

all of these points next week and look at them from a Biblical

perspective and you'll see where we're going with this.

Once I start into it here in just a minute but I want you to

see if you can discern for yourself and I told you that

we're going to do. I'm going to do a decent amount

of reading tonight. And I am because I want you to

hear it from them from just ice and for you know as really the

de facto leader of this Neo, Independent Baptist movement,

but see if you can discern for yourself, some things that are

wrong with what this group is defining.

As their Neo Independent Baptist group.

All right? Having said that this is a quote

from Josh theis. He said this, I'm optimistic

about the future of the Independent Baptist movement.

I'm excited when I meet the next generation of men who are

currently inheriting pulpits from their accomplished

predecessors. A thrill that every young Church

planter who shares amazing stories of God's grace in their

local Ministry. Young evangelist who refuse to

engage in denominational politics.

Inspire me, I'm encouraged by Young missionaries who are

decidedly. Not Preferring rather to

contextualize the gospel ministry as taught by the

Apostle Paul. These are the new Independent

Baptist and they are and here's the points that he lays out and

that's what we're going to go through.

So the first thing is he says that they're obsessed with the

gospel. Romans 1:16 he quotes there.

Romans 1:16

I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of

God and salvation to everyone. That believeth this is this is

what he says, people do not change because they start coming

to our church. People change because they have

a supernatural interaction. Gospel of Jesus Christ.

This is the power that transforms a person's Destiny

from Hell To Heaven. This is the power that brings

life to the dead spirit. This is the power that slowly

conforms an individual into the image of Christ.

It is the preaching of the Gospel.

That brings true change. This is why we bristle at

preaching that minimizes God's work and maximizes man's effort.

We understand that true change will only come to an

individual's life as they quote, grow, in Grace, and in deeper,

understanding of Jesus, not when they are subjected to an

artificial list of Holiness based on personal preferences.

Now again, this is what I want you to try to do tonight guy.

That's that's the first point that he says, they're obsessed

with the gospel. And I'm not saying that every

one of these is wrong or all wrong at least.

So what I want you to do is think about these things as I've

read through them. And as we list these points and

see where you stand on those things, see what you can discern

from those things. See what you think is right

about those things and what you think is wrong about those

things, all right? I'm asking you to to

spiritually. CERN if you will.

Okay. And then I'm not going to tell

you what you have to believe next week but I'm going to give

you some things that I see that are that are right and some

things many things that are wrong with what he's talking

about here. But the second thing then that

he says this new Independent Baptist movement is Neo.

Independent Baptist movement is is committed to the preaching,

the Bible and he quotes 2nd, Timothy 4:2, preach the word be

instant in season out of season reprove rebuke, exhort with all

long-suffering and Doctrine. And by the way, maybe I should

point out that what he's saying in his definitions of these

things, is that this is what we are, essentially.

This is what the old independent Baptists are not.

Okay. But he says this wheel of

expository preaching, we desire to expose what the Bible is

actually saying we loathe, the practice of twisting a scripture

to fit a preconceived idea, some of us expose the scripture

through sequentially preaching through entire books of The

Bible, taking great care to understand each passage within

its proper context. Others prefer a systematic

approach that allows for sermon series.

That comprehensively deals with a specific topic or doctrine.

In both cases, the new Independent Baptist takes great

interest in being true to the original intent of the author.

This is why we dismiss preachers who continually misappropriate

the very word of God at best. These men are naive at worst.

They are knowingly, prostituting the word for personal profit.

I want to say a lot but I'm not going to for the sake of saving

it for next week. But think about that.

Think about think about how he's saying, I know we're going

through it kind of quickly but think about what they're talking

about in speaking and talking about the word of God

contextually. And you know the the idea of

being true to the original intent of the author.

I'll tell you exactly what that does.

It opens it up for you to take any version of the Bible that

you want to take? Because now you're being true to

the intent. Not to the very words of God.

The third thing that they say is that they are men of unity who

despise hyper separatism men of unity who despise hyper

separatism. A quote John. 13:35 by this

John 13:35

shall all men know that ye are my disciples if you have love

one to another, sadly he says. Our movement has been identified

by a misappropriation of one passage about separation while

ignoring so many others about Unity.

These are the hyper separatist. Not only do they separate from

Godly leaders outside of our denomination.

They actively attack fellow Independence.

This has led our movement to divide into Splinter camps of

varying influence in size as if that's not what they're doing

with this whole movement. This has led our movement to

divide into Splinter camps of varying influence in size.

Each group seems to demand complete Here in Synod, only

fundamentals of theology but also to complete agreement in

secondary doctrinal issues, but they go even farther.

They also want uniformity and personal convictions.

And preferential issues like worship style, service

scheduling, building design and Pulpit.

Attire to question. The status quo, bring suspicion

to express, disagreement brings Swift separation.

However, this is changing, the new Independent Baptist is less

enamored with uniformity and more dedicated to Unity.

The the litmus test for Fellowship has nothing to do

with genes versus ties. Hymns versus CCM or Sunday

School versus small groups. We understand that the world is

going to hell and if we are going to reach them, it's going

to take a wide range of doctrinally sound churches that

are going to look extremely different from one another.

It's not only acceptable, it is preferable.

Think about that for a second. I'll give it a, I'll give you a

second to let it sink in about the things that he's talking

about is minimizing everything that, that separates us from the

world. It's exactly what that is.

We'll talk about that more. The fourth thing.

He says, defines the new Independent Baptist movement or

the Neo Independent Baptist movement is that they are turned

off by denominational politics. First Corinthians, 1:12 and 13.

There are more kundera contentions among you.

Now this, I say that every one of you saith, I am of Paul.

All and having will polish, and I have cephas and I of Christ is

Christ divided. That's the that's the passage

that he uses to talk about denominational politics.

They're turned off by that. He says this one of the great

benefits of being independent, Baptist was supposed to be the

lack of denominational control. Sadly our movement has not

always been able to live up to this ideal.

This is partly due to our proclivity toward the inane,

practice of second-degree, third degree and fourth degree.

Separation fear is a terrible thing for R will lead a man to

say what he doesn't believe in order to, please a Critic.

Fear will cause a man to sacrifice transparency at the

altar of influence. Fear will keep them in quiet

when he ought to speak but he'll call it discretion.

Fear will keep a church planter tied to a denominationally

improved method that produces fewer results.

Instead we choose to be men who are more concerned with freedom

of expression and open dialogue than retaining influence and

pleasing critics. Trust me.

I understand the pressure simply by writing this post.

I'm opening myself. Up to reprisals, but I have

found that speaking. The truth is rewarding,

expressing your position is freeing and saying what you

really think is tremendously liberating transparency, doesn't

seem to limit influence, it seems to expand it.

And in some ways he's right on that.

There are a lot of people who do things the way that they do it,

because they're afraid of what somebody else is going to think

about the way that they do it. He's right in that but we'll

talk about a lot of that stuff. Next week.

The fifth thing that they say is that they're dedicated to Fisk

Coleco nobility. He says in second Timothy 45

make, full proof of thy Ministry at the recent idea day East

there, there were many great truth shared about life in

Ministry. And again, we'll talk about idea

day. Later, one of the greatest

quotes of the day was if the Pastoral staff is afraid of

financial accountability. There's a problem far, too many

churches have been destroyed by a pastoral staff on willing to

adopt strict Financial policies. Overspending misappropriation of

funds and even outright theft have brought many churches down

I And great comfort in knowing that this trend is dying away.

In Independent Baptist Church is due to the humility of pastors

and the hard work of deacons. We are to lead in the coming

century and we ought to remove the temptation of financial

corruption. the next one he says is that there are well read no

Pride should be taken in ignorance.

We should primarily be, well, read in the scriptures for they

contain what is needed for life and Ministry, but we should also

be well, read in history science, literature leadership

and pop culture. One of the things I love about

the young Independent Baptist in whom, God, is bringing me in

contact. Is their Readiness to grow.

They're not in bondage to index. Liberum, prohibit, or mm, as was

instituted by the Roman Catholic Church, they read broadly,

always being careful to filter. New thoughts for the inspired

word, this allows them to reach a broader swath of people within

their cultural setting. It also allows them to challenge

their presupposed point of view points of view again.

You know, I don't want to get into it tonight.

Number seven just getting started.

Is what he says. Is something that defines the

Neo Independent Baptist movement, Acts 1:8, you shall

Acts 1:8

receive power after that. The Holy Ghost is come upon you

and you shall be Witnesses unto me, both in Jerusalem and in all

Judea and in Samaria and unto the uttermost parts of the

earth, he says our generation is just getting started, the world

stands before us. In desperate need of Jesus

Christ, we hold the solution to the world's problems and we are

ready to give him away. We're willing to do anything.

It takes to please, our Lord in advance his kingdom.

We're just now arriving on the foreign field.

We're just now launching our church plant.

We're just now inheriting the established Pulpit.

We are just now beginning to see the possibilities for a

worldwide evangelism. The future is bright the next 40

years, belong to us. Will we be the generation that

turns the nation's back to Christ?

I believe we can for we are just getting started.

Essentially, you see what he's saying here?

Is that essentially all the work of of all the independent

Baptist in all the Baptist Churches before him Have done.

What? Essentially we just took over

and we're just getting started. Sharing the gospel.

We're just getting started. You know, turning all these

churches into what we are is what he's saying.

You know, and I want you to mold those things over this week and

think about some of those things.

And we'll talk about them next week.

But before we end tonight, He wrote this, he wrote this

article and then he published, I think he probably said on a Blog

that he does think, that's where I saw it originally.

But the, the list of responses to that article is just, I mean,

it goes on for days and days and days.

And I went down the rabbit hole so that other people don't have

to and read a bunch of those responses.

And I'm not one that I don't do a lot on Facebook, and I don't

get into arguments with people on.

Line, I just don't do it. There's a lot of things where

I'm like, I want to say this but it's not worth it, it's not

worth it so I don't. But I filled her a lot of these

things through my own, through the word of God and these

different responses and everything else.

But here's one that I came across that I felt I needed to

read for its Clarity because We're going to break all these

things down. One at a time.

And there's a lot that you probably don't know about these

guys and and because maybe you don't, maybe you've never really

looked into it before at all, but a lot of these a lot of

people have questioned. Josh Titus, if you hate the

things that the Independent Baptist and for then why are you

still in Independent Baptist or are you still an independent

Baptist and in response to that? He wrote another whole article

about that. He basically said, yes, I'm

still an independent Baptist because even though I see that

there's tons of problems in the Independent Baptist movement or

the Independent Baptist, Churches there's problems in all

denominations and if I'm just basically, if I changed and

became anything else I'd be jumping out of the frying pan

into the fire, right? So so I'm just going to stay an

independent Baptist but he's not.

That's not what in? And we talk about all these

things. That's not what Independent

Baptist stand for. So you're not you can claim to

be an independent Baptist and in some ways I guess he kind of is

because there is nothing that you know is a set of rules to be

or not to be. Independent Baptist, but that's

not what Independent Baptist and for and they're moving so fast

and so far away from that Foundation.

This guy says it great. He says I don't know who this

guy is but I loved his response and this is what we'll end with.

He said there are many things that I've seen growing up that I

have that. I have a great dislike for many

of which has been mentioned. I've never seen or known any

movement, Southern Baptist, SBC, Southern Baptist Church,

nondenominational emergent, Etc, to be perfect.

I've also come to recognize many things that I'm thankful for it.

You see? It was in the independent

fundamental Baptist summer camps.

That I came to know the Lord as my My Savior and since the

moving of God, in my life to surrender to be a preacher of

the Gospel, it was through the teachings of the scripture by

men of God, that I learned a Biblical Holiness and biblical

separation. It was at the independent

fundamental Baptist conferences were God's stirred.

My heart to live for him. I'm not one to go.

Pick a fight. I believe in being truly

independent, but not a recluse. I'm not in anybody's back pocket

and I'm nobody's boy. But my dad's being an

independent Baptist means something, if we were truly

independent, or we wanted Unity. Then why write an article that

brings more Division and starts a new camp?

These types of Articles? Do not reinforce our

independence but rather begins to lump people into camps.

If you're truly an independent Baptist, then why are there so

many Southern Baptist guys commenting on this blog.

I really don't care what the Southern Baptist Church or the

NEOS do until they poke their nose where it doesn't belong.

Why does your article reach into the hearts of the Southern

Baptist Church? The nondenominational crowd, the

Neo crowd? They want nothing to To do with

our crowd except when we send them the folks that were saved

in our churches, they wanted nothing to do with us until an

article is written by one who claims to be an independent

Baptist that tickles their ear. The Lord does not build churches

that look like a club and sounds like the rock concert from

Saturday night. Those churches are built by men.

Josh, if you're going a Direction, go, why do you need

to see a? Why do you see a need and trying

to influence a movement if you're so independent?

Over the years, I've gotten tired of guys trying to be the

next pope of the Independent Baptist, lead your church and

let others leave. There's article was as much

about what new things you like as it was about the old things.

You don't like you don't like it, leave it and be what you

are. But don't try to say, you're an

independent Baptist when you look like a Southern Baptist

Church, a non-denominational church and emergent Church.

You'll walk like a southern baptist.

Nondenominational emergent Church sound like a southern

baptist. Non-denominational emergent

church I'm not interested in being like them.

Writing articles against them. I don't want them influencing

this generation of young Independent Baptist.

So let me encourage you to go be what you are but stay out of my

Pea Patch. I think I was a great article.

I mean it was just a response but I but that's exactly.

I mean that's my that's my thinking as I'm reading through

this entire article why do you need to create a movement around

yourself if you're so independent and you can go do

what you want to do. Then go be independent to do

what you want to do. Why do you need to create a

movement around yourself, right? I'll tell you why.

It's because they know I know that the direction they're going

is not a good direction and they're trying to justify it.

And the more people you have that you can justify it to the

better, you feel about yourself in the whole thing.

So we're going to talk about all these different points.

We're going to take them one by one and look at them from a

Biblical perspective and see what the problems are with each.

One of these things and then it'll probably it probably will

actually take us another couple weeks on this just because I'll,

this is something that is very, very important.

And I want to us to make sure that we Stand?

Why we're not going in that same direction?

And why were, why were avoiding at all cost going in that same

direction. It's very, very dangerous.

And once you start down that road, you almost can't come back

from it, unless you have a hard break and you split a church and

you lose a ton of people doing it.

And and it's a very, very dangerous dangerous path to

start down and that's why we're not even going to start down

that path, but I think it's important for us to understand

that. There are a lot of churches out

there that are well down that path.

Some that are just turning down that path.

It's dangerous. It's very very dangerous and we

need to understand why. So we'll stop there for tonight.

And then we'll get back into this again next week.

Let's pray. Father, we love you and we thank

you for your goodness to us. I thank you that we do have the

word of God. I pray, not for the sake of

Pride. I pray that it wouldn't be for

the sake of Pride, but for the sake of standing for the truth

and for the sake of being different from this world that

you'd help us to take a stand on the truth of the word of God and

that we wouldn't bend, we wouldn't bout a culture, we

wouldn't bow to the Neo Independent Baptist crowd that

wants every Church to be something different than what it

is. Is God, I pray that you'd help

us to be exactly what you want us to be in this church.

That we'd have a desire for Holiness that we have a desire

to win souls and that because of that, you'd be able to use us in

the way that you want to, and we wouldn't get on our own way and

be a hindrance to the working of the Holy Spirit In This Place.

Well, thank you for all that you do for us in Jesus name.

Amen.